crogers271
crogers271
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@daikaimon said:
I am a Japanese DBD player.
In Japan, there is talk of a big difference in playstyle between the North American and other server environments and the Asian server environments.
(For example, it is often said that both survivors and killers on Asian servers focus on winning, while on North American servers they focus on having fun, etc.)
Also, the evaluation of killers is very different.
For example, Chucky, for example, was treated as a weak killer with a D rank at best, even before the weakening.
Please let me know your opinions.Please let me know your opinions.US West player here.
About a year ago I did a dive into the Asian region and watched a bunch of Asian streamers to compare them to my only experiences and the EU streamers I watch. In addition to realizing I no longer could follow a conversation in Japanese (sad face), there were a few things I noticed.
All of this is about frequency. Nothing is unique, just more or less common. My sample size is also small, maybe about 20 hours of game footage compared to thousands of play and watching US/EU.
Rage quitting / giving up on first hook seemed much more rare than my experiences.
Survivors are more focused on getting themselves out first. I was really surprised how many times I saw people open the gate and just leave instead of risking themselves for the other survivors. In my games I see survivors really trying to ensure everyone can get out, it is not at all unusual to see what should have been 3 survivors escape turn into 3 survivors dying because they were trying really hard to get that 4th person out (even against killers like Bubba were its almost impossible).
The fact that there's no killer handbook (rules a killer should play by) really helps survivors (which I know seems like the reverse of what it should be). In the US, survivors will frequently heal under hook because 'the killer is not supposed to tunnel'. This means if the killer does tunnel, then they have a very easy down / survivors will just rage quit because 'that's not how the killer is supposed to play'.
Asian soloq seemed to have a much better understanding of pulling the killer away from the generators. In my games survivors tend to run toward the strongest loop instead of trying to put the killer away from the area the killer needs to defend.
Killer players who were playing killers who needed to 'hit' with a power didn't seem nearly as strong and missed far more often than I was used to seeing.
That said, probably the most important thing about US/EU, which is probably true for Japan/Asia, is that we all disagree. Basically about everything that isn't 'Nurse is S Tier'. Getting a take on what the overall impression of feelings are is going to be difficult from some forum comments, but its something fun to discuss.
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@Wiccamanplays said:
They make a huge number of Killer Powers and addons totally useless, as well as Perks for both sides. Making an event where you can do less stuff than normal seems like a bad idea to me from a design perspective. The change in strategy from normal generators to Blood Generators is potentially interesting but the rest of it removes a whole dimension of gameplay. Does anyone have a different perspective on this?
The change in strategy from normal generators to Blood Generators is potentially interesting but the rest of it removes a whole dimension of gameplay. Does anyone have a different perspective on this?Different perspective - changing strategy up is worth removing a dimension of gameplay in a temporary mode.
That's kind of what the special events / modes are for, to temporarily shake things up. If you don't like how they shake things up, normal 4v1 is still there of course, but it gives the people who like the switch up a good change of pace.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909694#Comment_3909694
Not to be pedantic, but it's not a regression perk, it's a slowdown perk. Call of Brine is a regression perk (literally but not meaningfully, because it's numbers are so bad you'd only ever run it for its info), so you wouldn't compare them directly.
10% on a slowdown perk, as in, making the repair go slower, isn't that bad. My assumption is that the next totem gives a noticeable chunk too - and to be fair, it's also an assumption - so since getting to two stacks is pretty realistically doable, that'd mean the perk is still pretty usable.
Higher than 10% and it just starts out still strong, obviously. 10% is what I'd call the minimum for it to not be a dead perk. Just from idle speculation, obviously, I'd need to test it on the PTB either way.
It's worth just stating again that you get gen slowdown and healing slowdown from the first totem. The latter is not nearly as valuable as the former, but its not worthless.
My thoughts on possibilities
5% per totem - probably a dead perk
10% per totem - usable, but considerably weaker. If they added the recovery and gate slowdown the perk currently can potentially have, I'd say this number would be good.
15% per totem - Where I think it should be at. Not broken, not worthless.
20% per totem - Kind of impossible as this creates a hypothetical 100% slowdown (presuming that all of the totems are added together and then applied)
I actually hope, though don't expect, them to create some type of tier situation. The first is worth 12.5%, then 10% (22.5% total), and so on in decreasing values.
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909181#Comment_3909181
well i did say they weren't strong on either side (except for pre nerf mft as that Perk was so easy to activate) current one is fine
i think survivors especially should be able to stack haste perks because the haste perks they have are already pretty niche and require cooms or strict conditions to activate
like power of two and blood pact when do you even see these perks being used or causing a problem lol.
like power of two and blood pact when do you even see these perks being used or causing a problem lol.It's not about frequency, it's about severity.
While rare, when combined in a SWF its way overpowered making survivors uncatchable.
It's the exact type of change they should be making to the game. A change that will address a limited number of players who have made something problematic, while not really impacting the vast majority of the player base, is low hanging fruit for improving the game.
You can still run silly, niche builds if you want. You just can't turn that silly, niche build into an overpowered monster if you have a SWF to cooperate on it.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909502#Comment_3909502
Pain res isn't too great because you can literally get little to no value for the limited tokens. For example, if someone completes a gen just as you hook, the next generation could have very little progress if any which wastes the token. Also, smart survivors just do a decoy gen in the corner of the map to eat up all PR hits as a hard counter.
Dead man's grip is pretty good despite it getting a big nerf the to PR existing, but it's not a regression perk.
Grim Embrace i honestly don't like as it's annoying to go up against, but in general it's fine. Also not a regression perk.
Surge is okay as is, but it's major problem is that it was changed awhile back to have no cooldown since it hitting multiple times is on survivors making mistakes...but with the 8 regression limit, now this backfires on the perk. If survivors make a mistake and double or even triple up on downs in an area (especially through perks to instantly pick people up off the ground and so on), surge can cause multiple gens at once to hit the 8 limit VERY early in a match. I've had a gen lose 3 of it's 8 tokens within 20 seconds before....thats 3 gens with almost half of their tokens gone already!
Deadlock is fine as is, but again, not a regression perk.
Corrupt intervention.fine as is, and its a dead perk for the rest of the match. Also isn't a regression perk.
Eruption - would be fine, but this has a double penalty towards the 8 regression limit. A single trigger of this eats up 2 of the 8 allotted regressions for the match. This essentially means running Eruption will make it impossible to regress gens by the end of the match where gen control is more vital. Effectively a dead perk.
Call of brine is entirely useless. At full power, it reduces a gen by 4 or so seconds. Dead perk when it comes to regression
Overcharge for regression is also incredibly low. Realistically, the only regression it actually does is if survivors are bad at skill checks and does absolutely nothing if survivors are at least half decent at the game. It's nice for a first surprise, but once survivors know you run it, it's a non issue for them.
Oppression is essentially a dead perk due to the 8 regression limit. You'll hit your 8 max before you know it.
Also, smart survivors just do a decoy gen in the corner of the map to eat up all PR hits as a hard counter.The 'hard' counter is taking a survivor out of the match for 80+ seconds to set up the target gen, not to mention someone going back and spending time on it to stop it from regressing so it can still take the next pain rez.
That is still a massive amount of value.
Surge is okay as is, but it's major problem is that it was changed awhile back to have no cooldown since it hitting multiple times is on survivors making mistakes...but with the 8 regression limit, now this backfires on the perk. If survivors make a mistake and double or even triple up on downs in an area (especially through perks to instantly pick people up off the ground and so on), surge can cause multiple gens at once to hit the 8 limit VERY early in a match. I've had a gen lose 3 of it's 8 tokens within 20 seconds before....thats 3 gens with almost half of their tokens gone already!And that's five tokens still remaining. Even if 3 survivors run back and commit the same mistake again, you still have two more tokens (and running out of tokens isn't a penalty, it's only when you need a 9th regression that it matters).
And if you had it trigger 3 times in 20 seconds, you got a lot of downs in a row, you're probably not just winning, but already won, you just got a massive amount of regression, and the gen kick limit is irrelevant.
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@SomeGuy1246 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909536#Comment_3909536
and they are fine with the random elements (a minor example: they are okay with opening chests, while that's banned in DBDL, not because its unbalanced, but because its too random).True, honestly I only recently got interested into dbdasia since the Chinese team (Nova) performed last season in DBDL. I am not that familiar on their rule sets. I only know they are trying to make it closer to DBDL in China.
Ig allowing reassurance would destroy this whole comp concept of securing hooks but to preserve this play style they had to ban built-in cobe anyway so it may not be a fair representation of how strong it is just because "it's banned in DBDL / COTF". Fair point.
Because in this scenario it doesn't matter if a survivor dies. If the killer wants to camp for the 1k they'll just finish the gens and leave and the streak goes up.True
But being most survivors are playing with an ideal goal of a 4e if its available, Reassurance has a little more value.Is that really true though ? In soloQ reaching endgame is already nice. I feel like most survivors "winning mindset" is trying to maintain a 4v1 as long as possible and get a comfortable endgame and eventually go for end game unhook. Hard to imagine anyone has the luxury of winning so much they could run reassurance to get 4 escapes instead of 3.
Hard to imagine anyone has the luxury of winning so much they could run reassurance to get 4 escapes instead of 3.Well that's why I said a little more value.
As a 100% soloq player, I've had situations where it has helped save a survivor in the end game for the 4e. Lots of times we're cranking out that last gen while the survivor is dying on hook, so when the gen finishes we don't have the time to get the save. Being able to expand on that time, plus the possible value during the match, is nice.
It's not S tier or anything, and usually when I run it its more because of a strong desire to take down camping killers should I encounter one, but if I had the choice between it and shoulder, I'd still go reassurance.
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@SomeGuy1246 said:
So I played DBD a few years back when there was no anti-camp, hooks were not buffed to 70 seconds, killers could grab the rescue… And at the time, reassurance was my favorite explosive altruistic perk because securing another stage and hard camping was actually a lot of time a good strategy for killers. At the time, even in soloQ I considered it to be S tier if signaled properly in the pre game chat (and if played with sprint burst).
Now I come back, killers can't hard camp too close to the hook, can't grab, and in most cases, can't afford to not pressure gens for 70 seconds and may run the risk for a 1 for 1 rescue last second (for most of them).
The only times where I wished someone had a reassurance were against proxy camping billys in the open (even thought with 2 man save you can get a 1 for 1), some hooks against hag / trapper in some maps like RPD where they can block every entrances but you could just go to the floor above / below to reassurance, and I guess you still have some insidious bubbas but now it's mostly trolling / funny and a 1K / 2K for survivors if they don't throw so whatever.
It just seems pretty niche in the current meta.Now I replaced it with shoulder the burden and it completely outclasses reassurance imo and I really don't feel like reassurance is ever needed. What do you guys think ?
Reassurance has always been a perk that relies on a killer playing a certain style to get any value out of it. Less killers can hard camp now, but as you mentioned in your post there are some that can and Reassurance can still be powerful against them.
It's also more usable in end game rescues to buy time for everyone to heal up before going in.
Compared to StB - StB loses its value if you get hooked, as now you're just trading who is on death hook.
@SomeGuy1246 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909344#Comment_3909344
Yeah but in tournament there are limitations like unique perks. Now, don't get me wrong it's probably still super strong since I believe reassurance is banned against every killers in comp. I also believe in the next season of DBDL, they are banning FTP except against tier I killer (nurse, blight, billy, spirit, and maybe kaneki). But so is shoulder, shoulder is just straight up banned on every killers like reassurance I think.
But in a no-limit setting, you could just run something like 2-4 shoulder and you could not camp anyone anyway even if they're all just trading hooks. Don't seem like reassurance is that needed.
It's kind of like FTP where in comp I have seen it used as an anti-tunnel perk on unhook or against ghostface lery to transfer a health state if you're 99 stalk. But the anti-tunnel part is just outclassed by shoulder imo.
I believe these comp teams are also doing pub survivors winstreak with more lax rules (only no duplicate perks and no items with broken add-on I think). And the strategy I seem to observe is 1 deliverance, 1 wicked, 1 shoulder, and sometime FTP. But no reassurance in sight, maybe I am wrong tho I am not that interesting in a super comp team demolishing pub killers ngl.
Yeah but in tournament there are limitations like unique perks. Now, don't get me wrong it's probably still super strong since I believe reassurance is banned against every killers in comp. I also believe in the next season of DBDL, they are banning FTP except against tier I killer (nurse, blight, billy, spirit, and maybe kaneki).As a frequent watcher and enjoyer of DBDL, its not what Dead by Daylight actually is. It's basically a different game. Survivors are given an absolutely massive buff by knowing ahead of the game who the killer is going to be.
Lots of changes that they make to the game are around making it more predictable and less random. They also ban perks that they think take out skill expression, such as some aura reading, and the ban should not be seen as a statement on balance.
And whenever comp comes up, its worth mentioning that Asia comp/the old community cup doesn't have nearly as many bans, because they don't do preselected killer (they choose from a group), and they are fine with the random elements (a minor example: they are okay with opening chests, while that's banned in DBDL, not because its unbalanced, but because its too random).
And the strategy I seem to observe is 1 deliverance, 1 wicked, 1 shoulder, and sometime FTP. But no reassurance in sight, maybe I am wrong tho I am not that interesting in a super comp team demolishing pub killers ngl.Because in this scenario it doesn't matter if a survivor dies. If the killer wants to camp for the 1k they'll just finish the gens and leave and the streak goes up. But being most survivors are playing with an ideal goal of a 4e if its available, Reassurance has a little more value.
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From the update
[CHANGE]Introduced small buffs to Perks which previously relied on stacking.
So we're all waiting to see what the specific number will be, but it does seem to be something they are aware of.
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Currently, the only practical value Blast Minecouldgive is a last-second denial of one specific perk (Pop Goes The Weasel)While I don't think its an S tier perk or anything, I do think Blast Mine is underrated if this is all the value people think it gets.
Stunning the killer is always nice.
If you are confident the killer doesn't have nowhere to hide, the stun time gives you a chance to hide nearby and get back on the gen right away. Or if you are injured, get a lot of distance.
Pair it with wiretap, and you can either loop the killer around the gen, or you can get cross map distance if the killer kicks.
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I feel like a manual detonation would be more of its own perk and layering it on top of current blast mine to be too cumbersome. I do worry though about how well an area type blast could be coded, given how many issues flashbangs have caused.
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@chatgiraffe said:
It feels like this entire system was added as a way to prevent survivors from getting pissed off over being finisher mori'd. 90% of matches I get a 4k, the last guy just DCs cause he doesn't want to watch a 10 second animation. Not to mention, Survivors can basically quit the match whenever they want by giving up and letting the Killer down everyone, meanwhile Killers can only DC once every survivor does. Meaning, a SWF can just leave a match with basically no penalty the second they go against a Killer or Map they don't like, while a Killer is stuck playing out every single match, no matter how badly they want to leave it.
It's sucks that Kaneki is so broken that nobody is pointing out how stupid this system is.the last guy just DCs cause he doesn't want to watch a 10 second animation.Once a trial is no longer competitive, people should be able to leave.
meanwhile Killers can only DC once every survivor does.There are a few, but probably not too many, ways they can expand the leave system.
@chatgiraffe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906766#Comment_3906766
Four survivors can't decide to get downed "on command"? Okay, say you're playing Killer and all four survivors run right up to you and just start throwing the match, not doing anything but following you around tbagging or whatever. What do you do? You down them all. Now they've all DC'd. If a SWF was only interested in bullying, farming clips, or just didn't want to play against any strong/annoying killer, that's all they have to do. Whats the Killer gonna do? Not down them? At that point, you're the one giving them a free win.
And regarding everyone here who seems to thing that my big issue is I don't get to gloat over doing a funny animation, if I wanted to force people to watch Moris, I would just bring an actual mori, not use the Finisher. These people who instantly abandon the game the second they've "lost" have bigger ego issues than i ever will.If a SWF was only interested in bullying, farming clips, or just didn't want to play against any strong/annoying killer, that's all they have to do.As Smurf mentioned, this has always been true. In the past you and they would have had to wait while you hook them. Now they can get out faster, and the killer can get out faster.
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@cheapslurpiee said:
Kill/escape rates, killer happiness, survivor happiness, player count, balancing, etc.
What do you think? Would DBD be healthier, the same, or more toxic in your opinion? The big caveat in a lot of conversations is SWF. The major difference is simply information. Being able to speak with friends and determine exactly what to do nex given specific circumstancet; something DBD doesn't want you to be able to account for to that degree.
If that elephant in the room simply never existed, what conversations are we having about the game, and what does DBD look like both observationally and statistically.
On a pure hypothetical level-
Kill rates wouldn't increase as much as might be anticipated. MMR takes care of that somewhat. But presuming no other change to the game, you'd have an increase in kill rates.
It would make it much easier to balance. So would totally eliminating it from consoles and/or PC. Neither will happen, but it would be more straightforward.
I don't think it would change happiness/toxicity long term. Lots of players might lose a possible excuse for why things happen.
Player counts would decrease.
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@dayflare said:
Hey there Survivor Mains! Dwight main here!
I'm always going at it solo and I'm wondering what the best build is for helping my teammates win the round. My playstyle is 'hero stealth' which is stealth mixed with not being afraid to run into the chaos to help my teammates. Whether that's unhooks or switching the killer's attention to me.
The current perks I have are: Prove Thyself, Leader, Botany Knowledge, and We'll Make It
Hens did a whole video where he experimented with some different solo builds with the idea of getting other survivors out of the game.
A huge portion of the answer is what your skill set is. If you're a great looper, the best thing you can do is get the killer on you and lead them on long chases. If you are not a good looper, then you want a build that heals / gets gens done quicker.
On your build:
We'll Make It/Botany - One or the other. Having both of them running at the same time does not yield a huge benefit
Heal Times:
Botany - 10.67 seconds
We'll Make It - 8 seconds
Botany + We'll Make It - 6.4 seconds
I used to love We'll Make It, but I think on the math side botany does enough and is more reliable. But if you are running We'll Make It, the extra 1.6 seconds saved from Botany are not worth a perk slot.
On the gen side - deja vu + prove is a better combo.
If you find you are great at being stealthy, Shoulder the Burden is a possible choice.
Kindred is probably the best of the soloq team perks you are missing.
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Echoing others.
Lights Out hasn't been too well received from what has been said. I suspect it will come back at some point, but probably not going to be a normal rotation element. They might be cutting their losses on the idea of spending anymore time developing this mode.
2v8 needs work between each version.
Chaos Mode can be thrown in with ease. It doesn't take anymore work, it doesn't seem to destabilize the normal queues, and the people who like it don't seem like they are getting bored with it.
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@Zenislev said:
With the new surrender option, survivors can just leave rather than watch your mori, meanwhile when survivors win, you either wait out the timer or go to the exit gate to be teabagged. What's up with that? Can the killer have the option to leave once all gens are done? It would only be fair wouldn't it?
Can the killer have the option to leave once all gens are done? It would only be fair wouldn't it?I want to say the devs discussed having other surrender options to consider. I think that killers should be able to exit once the exit gates are open.
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Probably Nurse. The idea of a killer where you are just going to get slaughtered until you master her, then you slaughter the survivors, doesn't seem like a good character in a multiplayer game.
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The problem with trap/set up killers:
With DbD's design being a trap based killer is a relatively straight forward role. The game/maps are not that complicated. Set up at choke points, objectives, etc. So a set up killer will relatively quickly get good at the role while survivors will struggle on how to defeat them.
However, once survivors do figure out how to defeat the set up, well then the balance of power shifts and now the killer looks really weak.
So everyone ends up hating the character.
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I've been hoping for a 5v5. The additional details they gave about it made it sound not quite like what I'd want, but still a very interesting mode.
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@Kerkvlerk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901166#Comment_3901166
I’ve always thought the same. I’m not the best player out there, but I’ve got enough hours to know the difference between good survivors and bad ones. And honestly, a lot of the matches content creators get just seem way too easy.
Behaviour really raised my suspicions, especially with how they handle MMR. Someone actually figured out a way to check their MMR, but Behaviour got their legal team involved and shut it down. Now nobody can see their MMR anymore. If we could our MMR, the whole debate about easy matches would probably disappear.
I actually played during the weekends when they were testing MMR, and I remember one weekend that was just horrible for newer players. Then one of the other weekends, YouTube videos popped up like that it was everything but fun to sweat 24/7. But to me, it honestly felt like nothing really changed.
But then again, ask yourself this: would people still care about content creators if they kept getting destroyed as survivors or looped into oblivion every match as killer?
Behaviour really raised my suspicions, especially with how they handle MMR. Someone actually figured out a way to check their MMR, but Behaviour got their legal team involved and shut it down. Now nobody can see their MMR anymore. If wecouldour MMR, the whole debate about easy matches would probably disappear.It's not that suspicious of a story.
Since the introduction of MMR, BHVR has been pretty clear about why they want it secret. Of course some people disagree with them, but there's a lot of discussions of on the merits of secret vs public.
The way the person figured out how to see their MMR was by putting a request through to BHVR and saying they had a legal right to all of their data.
BHVR provided the data. Nothing about the numbers looked suspicious, only perhaps confusing.
Afterwards, the involvement of BHVR's legal team amounts to 'actually, upon further consideration, we don't think there is a legal obligation to have to give MMR'.
BHVR wants MMR to be secret. That they would act to keep it secret is the expected course.
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@UknownShredder said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901795#Comment_3901795
Make sense it could be the case. The reason for the question is that if we consider these people the top of the crop then why is it not the same in other games ? You do not see someone who playing for rank 1 in wow , Or Starcraft, or Counterstrike suck so much as their opponents do in stream and you can also tell that what these content creators are doing is nothing out of the world such as when a world champion in counterstrike has surgical precision in every single shot and would ace everyone with the starting pistol by shooting everyone in the head 1 shot per guy.
The reason for the question is that if we consider these people the top of the crop then why is it not the same in other games ?The answer, as it comes up a lot of times when comparing DbD to other games, is that the other games aren't asymms.
Most games have a direct comparison. The skills you are learning as you improve in Counterstrike are the same as another player. Survivor and killer are learning different skill sets.
Additionally, not only are killers and survivors both improving in the game as you improve in ranks, at some point survivors will begin to SWF. There is no killer equivalent. A killer can reach the hypothetical best possible skill on their own, survivors not only need to master the game, but then need to find 3 other survivors of equal skill level and organize times to all play together.
That's going to make the 4 person SWFs rare to find.
That's why its a lot different than Starcraft or Courternstrike.
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@UknownShredder said:
I have seen that they are to implement a surrender option which i feel is a little bit of a coward move and require some repercussions when done.
I suggest that all survivor who pressed the surrender button will lose all their blood points and those are being given to the killer who also gain blood points as if they were all stage 3 hooked. I have not read much into this but this seem like a way to escape humiliation from survivor side who is getting a TON of buffs coming up so it would not be more than fair.
Maybe the Surrender should require that they get rooted in the ground so we killers can go up and do our finishers on them.
What are your thoughts on this upcoming change ? Should they even get a blood point at all if they surrender? If feel it should be collective punishment so even those who died get their blood points taken away from them if their teammates choose to be a coward so they can hold themselves accountable.What are your thoughts on this upcoming change ? Should they even get a blood point at all if they surrender?Of course they should. The whole point of surrender is to speed up an outcome that has already been determined, which is why it has conditions. The killer won, great, let's move on. I can't believe its taken this long for something like it to be in the game and there's probably a few areas they should consider to expanding it to.
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901000#Comment_3901000
The fact that this post was downvoted is WILD.
“I’m not going to argue with you, but I will insult you.”
”That isn’t a discussion. That’s not why we’re here.”
5 players on the internet: 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻
We seem to have a surge in downvoting going on.
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Serious question, why do so many killers in this game barely get punished for missing their power? One of the main aspects of survivor is to dodge killer powers to make distance and extend the chase but there’s so many killers that barely get punished for using their power.Well, the simple answer is that they don't get punished because they aren't supposed to be.
Thematically: If the Huntress misses a hatchet the survivor isn't supposed to think 'good, I'm safe'. but ''phew, I'm not dead yet'. The Killer should not feel so easily defeated as if by just a missed power. In a horror movie sense, this is when the killer swings and hits the wall, as he pulls out his axe/knife the victim has a moment to gain some distance, but that's all, the chase is still on.
Killer comparison: For some of the killers listed, the power they can miss is really all they have. If something like hatchets had a longer cooldown, then killers with unmissable powers (i.e. Wraith) would be far stronger by comparison. And we/BHVR want Killers to engage with an use their powers.
Game Balance: Seconds are really important in DbD, or at least they should be. The goal is not to win the chase, game design makes that a necessarily rare event, but to make it last as long as possible.
Powers that have longer cooldowns, but bigger impacts, generally aren't that desirable. Iri Head on Huntress usually isn't that desirable to play against - trade off of much longer cooldown (by needing to go to a locker), but insta downs makes each throw more beneficial and costly. I think its a better game when that is spread out.
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A few Killers could do with longer cooldowns just as a way to balance them (probably Dracula), but that's a specific balance issue, not necessarily a broad view of how powers should work.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901142#Comment_3901142
i mean in [Name Redacted]'s most recent Solo Hardcore series he went up against a Prestige 100 killer within his first 10 games. obviously prestige != skill but anyone who's got p100 has probably played enough to go above the soft cap, meaning the content creator in question very easily could have hit softcap within 10 games
gives you an idea of what the matchmaking's like.
that's actually something I'm curious about, now that I think about it. Would love if someone with inside knowledge could comment - is there some sort of uncertainty factor that causes new accounts to gain MMR more quickly if they win all their first handful of games?
Would love if someone with inside knowledge could comment - is there some sort of uncertainty factor that causes new accounts to gain MMR more quickly if they win all their first handful of games?You redacted a name so I don't know if we're supposed to not say specific names or not,
Anyway, in the Big 4's recent Hardcore Survivor attempt, it was mentioned that there was anti-smurfing that pulled people up more quickly. They didn't go into details on the specifics or how they knew about it so I can't verify beyond saying I heard them say it (I also watched the attempt live, no idea if it made it into the compilation vids).
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@UknownShredder said:
Ive been watching some content on killers, I wont say all is like this but when i watch it i feel like they are playing against extremely low MMR survivors that get stuck in walls and do not know how to loop properly and generally disoriented. Meanwhile i face coordinated groups with every meta perk in the game 4000 hours on their survivors and they loop flawlessly , You really nee to powder your nose and have coffee to even stand a chance.
So my question is basically, Are they tanking for content or what is going on ? The survivors they face is like when you pick up a new character you never played but yet have 1000+ hours primarily as a killer so its just slaughter.Three reasons I think its impossible
1: The time investment
2: As I saw someone say in a video, you can follow their BP and Shards from stream to stream. They would not only have to spend a massive amount of time de pipping, they would then need spend just enough to even out those numbers.
3: Hackers target streamers by their account IDs. If there were CC frequently playing off stream to depip, there would be hackers out there posting vids of streamers just being AFK in matches.
Just given how many people stream I'm sure there are a few that do it, but no way a common thing.
extremely low MMR survivors that get stuck in walls and do not know how to loop properly and generally disoriented.Its how competitive games work. An example of this: there are lots of professional athletes who make it to the pros for only a year or two and generally look not very good, but if you find tape of them playing in high school they look like gods. You'll see the survivor make more mistakes, likely because the killer is able to put more pressure on them into making mistakes.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Does anyone think BHVR designs around both SWF and Solo'q?
Are we asking the right question? I'd rather "What do you balance around, BHVR?' and then get a response. All you are doing is speculating, 100%. Everyone.
So, hopefully a mod can come in and do ANY sort of clarifying. UGH
Does anyone think BHVR designs around both SWF and Solo'q?Yes. I've never heard them say anything differently, though its possible I missed a change in design philosophy.
While BHVR has a few simple metrics (kill rate), its far from the only one. I've also seen them discuss that they look at the killer through all MMR brackets, as well as the game distribution breakdowns (0es, 1es, etc.), and whether any element can cause a significant problem at any level of the game.
Basically measure magnitude vs frequency of problems to sort them into how much of a rush they are to address.
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@deckyr said:
you have every right to not enjoy going up against a killer, but you have no right to demand that the killer be changed to make playing against it more fun.
as a survivor, it's your job to survive, whatever gets thrown at you. if you queue up, you do it knowing that whatever is about to happen is going to try to kill you.
since everyone is correct in that there is no universally enjoyed killer, why does it make sense to see bhvr trying to create a universally enjoyed killer? if there's always going to be someone who doesn't like playing against a killer no matter what, then why bother trying to make skull merchant more liked?
and even besides all of THAT, her pickrate was not big enough for anyone to have been concerned about seeing her more than once a month. so literally why does it matter how much you like playing against her when she was already a niche pick in the first place?
the comparison to food is being made in this thread where not everyone likes pineapple on pizza. and somehow, we understand this better than not everyone likes skull merchant. so if we're sticking to the food analogy, let this be the point: im not saying you have to like vegetables, but you do have to eat them.
you have every right to not enjoy going up against a killer, but you have no right to demand that the killer be changed to make playing against it more fun.Sure you do. If you are a player of the game you have every right to say 'I'd enjoy this product more if X was changed' or even 'I'll stop using this product unless X is changed'.
You have the right to enjoy whatever, you also have the right to express that opinion, and every right to continue or not to use the product. You just don't have a right to consider your personal view any more important than anyone else.
as a survivor, it's your job to survive, whatever gets thrown at you. if you queue up, you do it knowing that whatever is about to happen is going to try to kill you.If they introduced a killer whose only power was that survivors needed to listen to Baby Shark on repeat in order to survive, survivors would be perfectly justified in wanting it changed.,
There's no inherent right for anything to exist in the game on either side. It actions on BHVR's part to try and navigate the difficult seas of video game design and find the right path to appeal to enough players to keep the game viable (which they have been remarkably successful at).
since everyone is correct in that there is no universally enjoyed killer, why does it make sense to see bhvr trying to create a universally enjoyed killer?This is kind of the Nirvana Fallacy. No solution will ever be perfect, therefore, why try? Yes, everyone has their own issues with the game that are not shared by the community at large. However, there are issues for which a significant portion of the player base shares an opinion and it is completely logical to try and address those larger issues, even if the solution will not totally resolve all complaints.
BHVR has that data and it really looks like there is a substantial amount of Skull Merchant dislike.
and even besides all of THAT, her pickrate was not big enough for anyone to have been concerned about seeing her more than once a month. so literally why does it matter how much you like playing against her when she was already a niche pick in the first place?If the occasions of playing against her at that rare, but the reaction is still so viscerally strong, all the more reason to change her.
im not saying you have to like vegetables, but you do have to eat them.Except this is a video game. It's not something players have to do at all. They do it because its fun, if they didn't have fun, they wouldn't do it (which would be bad for BHVR and the rest of the players).
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@CosmicScarab said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900829#Comment_3900829
I do think SOME people hate her because just because she is Skull Merchant and I feel like those people will never change even after a full rework like this. Not all of them, though, obviously. A lot of people I've talked to, though, have said they hate her because of the status effect overload she has, so I just think that would be a good place to start, instead of jumping right into a full scale rework.
I suppose it depends on the person. Personally I love dealing with area denial. Trapper and SM are two of my favourite killers to go up against, but I may be an oddity there. Given that trapper doesn't seem to be very disliked and people seem to, at the very least, tolerate Singularity and Hag, I think that area denial at its core isn't a fundamental problem.
I don't see elements of a trap killer in her new kit. Sure, she places down her drones, but I just don't think placing something is what makes a trap killer a trap killer. In function I just see her more as a twins with more Victors. I think it is fair to call her a dash killer though as it appears the main way you will get damage is using your drones dash function. The new post says:
"Skull Merchant can choose to take control of Drones from a distance. During this time, she becomes Undetectable, as her controlled Drone becomes the primary threat. These Stealth Drones move slightly faster than her base movement speed and consume a new resource – Power, unique to each Drone – while being controlled.
Power is consumed slowly as the controlled Drone idles and slightly more is consumed while moving. Skull Merchant is also able to use a burst of this Power to activate Drone Propulsion. This charged power sends the Drone flying forward at high speed, relative to how long it was charged.
Hitting a Survivor with Drone Propulsion causes them to lose a health state"
That sounds pretty much like something similar to the twins with Victor, who is just a dash killer, or a projectile killer, depending on how you would classify them. She has a slight amount of setup still, sure, but again, I don't think setup makes a killer a trap killer, as if it did, then Singularity would be a trap killer.Trapper and SM are two of my favourite killers to go up against, but I may be an oddity there. Given that trapper doesn't seem to be very disliked and people seem to, at the very least, tolerate Singularity and Hag, I think that area denial at its core isn't a fundamental problem.If we're going to get into how to classify certain killers, Trapper isn't an area denial. He can block chokepoints, but not really an area (I think a thing many Trapper's learn early when they try to just massively trap an open exit gate only to realize there is a needed distance and then survivors just run around the traps).
That makes going against his power more fun and scary. As a survivor you always face the risk of a trap in some brush or around a corner during a chase and then you suddenly need to veer in another direction. It's not just floating there.
Singularity is probably closer on the ability to lock down a larger area of the map, but
1: Very few seem to play Singularity
2: The counter play is more interesting
but I just don't think placing something is what makes a trap killer a trap killer. In function I just see her more as a twins with more Victors.That sounds pretty much like something similar to the twins with Victor, who is just a dash killer, or a projectile killer, depending on how you would classify them. She has a slight amount of setup still, sure, but again, I don't think setup makes a killer a trap killer, as if it did, then Singularity would be a trap killer.If Singu isn't a Trap killer, how is Hag? What's the defining thing that the killer needs to have to be a trap killer.
If everything about the Drones was exactly the same in the new version, except they auto targeted instead of SM taking over, would that make her a trap killer?
She seems very different than Victor to me. In that case as Twins you can spend a lot of the match as him, he behaves basically as a mini-M1 killer who can chase and has a pounce. While we won't know until we see them, the Drones seem much different. The killer only takes them over for a short time and they are far more of a projectile than a dash.
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@CosmicScarab said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900801#Comment_3900801
Focus on the issues people have a problem with, which generally seems to be the haste/hinder, and shift her power budget elsewhere like they did with the Knight. There is no need to fundamentally change the killer from a trap/stealth/info killer into a dashing killer.
I'm not even against a rework, I just want her to keep her identity as a trap/stealth/info killer. It is what makes her fun and unique, and we really don't need another dash killer when we have so many options for those as it is.But going back to your comment:
Again, I genuinely think it more of a problem of people not seriously giving her a chance and learning.If that is true, I don't think it has to do with just haste/hinder. People aren't 'giving her a chance' because of that. If your comment is correct, and I'm kind of 50/50 on whether it is, then people have decided they hate her 'identity'. At that point the only path forward is changing her identity.
like they did with the KnightThe difference though is that Knight's power, initially, creates for an interesting and cool game. A killer that summons different guards with different powers that can pop up suddenly doesn't in anyway look boring to most survivors. The bigger problem emerged when it was realized he could just play defense the entire time. He had/has some other issues, namely that his guards become uninteresting once you know how they work, but once the 3 gen issue was solved
Skully's power has always had the feel of area denial which isn't very interesting to deal with.
really don't need another dash killer when we have so many options for those as it is.I know this is going on in other discussions, but calling her a dash killer just doesn't make sense. She still seems far closer to a trap killer than a dash killer. But even if she isn't a trap killer, she isn't a dash killer.
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@Xyphus said:
What's all your opinion about this? You really think their will be a middle ground where we all will be happy with her - or do you think the cycle of hate will start again?..
Do we remember when Tools of Torment was first teased? As far as I remember their was so much hype for this chapter, cause people expected a Predator, or Terminator or at least a Cyborg Killer..
Then Adriana came around and the hate began even before the PTB really started - mostly because of the disappointment and thought that she was a failed Predator license..
Then women started threads that she's just a cheap ######### and represents the opposite of female values. You still read and hear arguments that she's just a pornstar with a weapon.
All in all.. My suggestion would be - and it hurts through and through, cause she's my highest prestiged character - that you make a community poll..
You're already claiming that this Rework happens because of the community.. But with stating "To make her fun to play AS and against" the first lie has already been spoken. People playing AS her already had fun.. This is a one-sided Rework - needed or not is not the question, cause something has to be done! - But I doubt that a Rework will help.
This character WAS, IS and WILL BE hated FOREVER!
So, if you wanna pretend to follow the voice of the community, make a Poll and let it be open for 30 days.
Make a Rework and pray for the best (even though you have MANY other things to fix about this game)
OR
Delete this character and refund us for all we spent on her. Of course you wouldn't do this with real money.. Auric Cells would be the way to go here apparently.
Show some backbone here.. As mentioned above - Rework number X won't help anymore (in my honest opinion)
Then Adriana came around and the hate began even before the PTB really started - mostly because of the disappointment and thought that she was a failed Predator license..I remember watching content creators when the ability to play her first dropped. The issues and problems with her design where immediately apparent and had nothing to do with Predator.
Delete this character and refund us for all we spent on her.I know people love to throw out things like this, but it will never happen. Even if she was deleted you still got a lot of time to play with her. It's a live service game, nothing you purchase is presumed to exist for eternity as is (or even at all).
Mettle of Man didn't get refunds, and this isn't anywhere near that.
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@deckyr said:
there are only 3 trap killers in the game.
there is only 1 trap + stealth killer in the game.
this rework will remove one trap killer, and the only trap+stealth killer, from the game.
to put this into perspective, there are 38 killers in the game right now. the 39th killer is going to be a dash killer. the 38th killer is a projectile killer. the 37th killer is a dash + projectile killer. the 36th killer is a projectile killer. the 35th killer is a projectile killer. the 34th killer is a dash killer. the 33rd killer is a projectile killer. the 32nd killer is a projectile killer. the 31st killer is skull merchant.
the previous trap killer before skull merchant was hag. hag was 24 killers before skull merchant.
let that sink in. 39 killers, and 3 of them are trap killers. of those 3 killers, skull merchant is the only one that doesn't need to camp basement or hooked survivors or generators. she is the only modern, successful trap killer in the entire roster.
the problem is that the dbd developers don't make trap killers, and when they do, the survivors are too out of practice to handle a modern trap killer.
no matter how you slice it, that's a bonafide BHVR Design L.
it is the developers' faults that survivors are so out of practice against slower, methodical killers. it is the developers' fault for not including more slow, methodical killers. it is the developers' fault for pivoting away from trap killers and towards constant chase and twitch reflexes and dash/projectile killers.
skull merchant deserves to exist. i don't care if you hate her sexy walk or whatever. she is totally unique. and she demands you change your strategy to suit her counterplay. skill issue and Ls around if you can't, but that should not be her problem, and she does not deserve to die because the developers refuse to add more trap killers, or because the survivors refuse to crouch and turn off her drones.
you know what would be a great skull merchant rework? if the next 4 killers were all trap killers, and survivors had to slow down and think about their gameplay, and everyone had to learn how to deal with trap killers again. and then she wouldn't NEED a rework.
funniest thing imaginable is if the fnaf chapter comes out and they invent a dash power for that killer. instead of the killer being a stealh trapper with a jumpscare the way a fnaf killer should be.
no matter how you slice it, that's a bonafide BHVR Design L.Why?
A simple counter argument is that trap killers are incredibly hard to design in a way that creates good matches for both killers and survivors and that most players don't want the type of game you think the devs should be forcing them into.
@deckyr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900741#Comment_3900741
someone is going to have the highest kill rate, and the developers want it to sit around 65%. last i checked, when you are dealing with 'how many survivors are killed, 0-4', 65% and 70% are pretty dang similar in terms of result.
65% of 4 is 2.6
70% of 4 is 2.8
wow, skull merchant is killing an entire .2 survivors above average. clearly overpowered. nothing at all to do with people going next at the first inconvenience.
quick question - what does .2 survivors actually mean? is that like, dwight crawled out the gate instead of walking out injured? or is it actually as whollely irrelevant as it appears?
65% and 70% are pretty dang similar in terms of result.Across a data sample as large as what BHVR has, 5% is massive.
Also, different devs have given different targets it was 60% for a while, then 60 to 65% with a goal of 62.5%, either way this would put a 70% way outside the ideal goal range.
@CosmicScarab said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900741#Comment_3900741
Considering a lot of people I played with and against just gave up against her, whether that was going afk or killing themselves on hook, I think it is hard to accurately look at her kill rate. I know BHVR said first hook deaths were fairly low, but most people got rescued and would go afk, so I am not too sure how accurate her kill rates can be. Again, I genuinely think it more of a problem of people not seriously giving her a chance and learning.
Also, when Legion was released they were also universally reviled, yet they managed to change Legion without absolutely gutting their identity, and the same can be said for Knight. I think the same can be done with SM, people just need to give her a shot and actually play against her.Again, I genuinely think it more of a problem of people not seriously giving her a chance and learning.For a moment, let's presume you're absolutely correct,
This is a far more significant problem than her being unbalanced. That's the players (consumers) saying they hate the product. It doesn't matter how much the developer likes the product or objectively thinks it is okay, if the players aren't going to engage with it, then it must be changed. What possible method would you suggest BHVR implement that could get people to reconsider their views?
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@Ginnypig said:
All jokes aside, my first game todaay, playing trapper for some Tome 1 achievements, all my gens were done in 2m33.
Survivors have the power role in dbd, not the killer.
Survivors have the power role in dbd, not the killer.Every now and then we get a video that shows the exact opposite of what the poster thinks it does.
Here we have
Survivors: Kitted it out running maximum efficiency
Killer: A low tier Killer playing for a tome and using a build to support that.
Result: Killer gets a draw (that could have potentially been a win if you slugged the second down and went to get a third with NOED and forced the other out the gate, but you prioritized the tome, which is fine for playing, but means the game should not be used to reflect anything about DbD's overall health)
The fact that the killer got a draw, despite this radical difference in level of sweatiness to the game, really makes it clear where the power role is.
It also shows the risks of the absolute gen rush strategy on the survivor side. How quick the game is isn't inherently related to its balanced state. A full focus on gens means they have no perks to help with rescue/recovery.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0PSLDLA8TOJV/dbd-designpreview-sm-banner-1920x1080.png
[Reposting the Design Preview here to help centralize feedback and discussion]
Today, we want to dig into a topic that we know many of you have been yearning to know more about: our vision for the future of The Skull Merchant!
REEVALUATING THE SKULL MERCHANT
We know that Skull Merchant is a divisive Killer who, regardless of her performance in a Trial, carries a lot of history and strong feelings among players.
Many players feel she’s not fun to play against and her kit is exceedingly complex. This scares away potential Killers from trying her and makes it difficult for Survivors to consider counterplay without dedicated research.
As we look to reworking Skull Merchant, our aim is to:
- Strike a balance between being fun to play as and against
- Preserve the intel focus of her kit, while making it intuitive to understand for both sides
- Move away from a passive power with limited player interactions and embrace a more active playstyle, while ensuring her power is compensated in interesting ways
Those last two points may be particularly difficult to hear for long-time Skull Merchant mains, but we feel it’s important to be clear about our intentions here. While the future we envision for Skull Merchant is quite different from her previous iterations, we feel this rework brings some exciting new tools of torment to the table!
DRONES 2.0
Skull Merchant can deploy a Stealth Drone (she carries a total of 5), which scans its immediate vicinity and provides intel back to her. After a short activation period, the Drone gives off subtle audio and visual indications of the area being scanned, revealing any Survivors on the Radar who are caught by its two rotating detection zones.
Importantly, we’ve slowed their rotation speed slightly and toned down the visual intensity of these zones, removing the large scan lines to replace them with something more subtle. Namely, you'll see the direction of each detection zone as they rotate, but the detection zone itself is invisible. This gives Survivors an impression of the space that’s being actively scanned but requires them to proceed cautiously.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C6VWTQBQ1BTU/image-aaf071f6c3346-22ec.png
While we know they had their supporters, the original scan lines were visually loud and often clashed with the rest of the game’s look and feel. The intent here is to strike a balance between giving Survivors just enough info to assess the threat (a subtle, rotating field of detection) without that threat overwhelming the space and feeling incongruous to Dead by Daylight’s visual identity.
DRONE CONTROL
Once a Stealth Drone has been active for a short period, Skull Merchant can choose to take control of Drones from a distance. During this time, she becomes Undetectable, as her controlled Drone becomes the primary threat. These Stealth Drones move slightly faster than her base movement speed and consume a new resource – Power, unique to each Drone – while being controlled.
Power is consumed slowly as the controlled Drone idles and slightly more is consumed while moving. Skull Merchant is also able to use a burst of this Power to activate Drone Propulsion. This charged power sends the Drone flying forward at high speed, relative to how long it was charged.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IMXNYNDDTZL2/sm-kd-articleasset.gif
Put simply: Stealth Drone go brr
Hitting a Survivor with Drone Propulsion causes them to lose a health state. If you hit a Survivor or collide with an object during this action, the Drone will be destroyed and return control to Skull Merchant.
With these new Stealth Drones, we want to give players something that feels familiar (using drones to gather intel) but also opens the door for unique skill expression opportunities (re-positioning Drones and Propulsion skill shots). Using technology to hunt her prey is core to Skull Merchant’s identity and so it’s important that we stay true to that!
We have opted to remove many of the background effects – Hindered, Haste, Lock On, Claw Trap – that were previously tied to these Drones, though. Rather than doing a little bit of everything with her Drones under layers of complexity, we want their use cases to be clear to Killers and Survivors alike, on the fly. Basically, if they’re static, they’re likely scanning for Survivors. If they’re moving, they’re a collision hazard.
DRONE HACKING
Like Drones themselves, Drone Hacking returns with a greater degree of risk and reward. Like before, Drones can be disabled by Survivors by inputting a series of button presses while close. If a Drone is disabled, Skull Merchant’s aura is revealed to that Survivor, providing useful intel. If the Hack is failed, they are revealed by Killer Instinct and are prevented from attempting another hack for a short period.
The intention here is to introduce a greater degree of tension to hacking, while offering a clear way for Survivors to interact with Skull Merchant’s kit in a meaningful way. The intel reward is greater than before, but the risk of being revealed is more impactful. With intel at the center of this tension on both sides, we hope it makes this interaction easily digestible by players.
RED LIGHT, GREEN LIGHT
In addition to her Drones, Skull Merchant has another power that ties into her Radar. While the name is currently TBD, let’s refer to it as a Global Detection Power. Once this power is charged and activated, a global warning plays for all Survivors. For a short period afterwards, any Survivor who actively sprints is revealed on her Radar. Of course, crouching, standing still, and hiding in lockers all prevent detection. Added to the intel provided by Stealth Drones around the map, this should help ensure Killers are easily able to keep tabs on Survivors’ movements.
In line with our rationale above, we want Survivors to have a clear understanding of what’s happening when they face Skull Merchant. Where the overlapping timers and status effects of Skull Merchant’s previous kit often obscured what the expected result of an encounter might be, structuring this power around a well-known game – red light, green light – provides a clear and readable threat, a clear benefit for the Killer, and a clear path for Survivors to try and overcome it.
TENTATIVE RELEASE
We are currently evaluating a timeline for Skull Merchant’s rework but do envision it being quite far out as our primary focus is on driving quality-of-life updates. Once we have a timeline to share, we will be sure to keep you informed via future Design Preview updates.
Phew – that was a lot! How do you feel about this rework? We want to hear from you! Jump into our survey and share your thoughts right here:
See you in The Fog!
The Dead by Daylight Team
Overall: positive direction. I don't think there is anyway forward for SM other than a rework of this level.
Some notes:
1: You discuss the understandable desire to maintain her feel. One of SM's biggest issue is that she is a killer with a detection power, who came out in a time when aura reading was readily accessible. Her ability to find and track survivors is easily replicated by a few perks (and probably stronger as the survivors don't get a warning).
2:
Many players feel she’s not fun to play against and her kit is exceedingly complex.The not fun to play against is true, the exceedingly complex part though is overrated by how boring it is.
To use Xeno as an example: learning to place his turrets is exciting. You have to debate how far to go, what a good spot to place them is and, if you succeed, are rewarded with a cool flamethrower impact. Even simple things like Unknown's hallucinations and Dredge lockers are far more engaging on the concern that a sudden teleport can make a simple action dangerous. Skully always feels like 'eh, there's a drone, I guess I'll turn it off or whatever'.
3: Drone's 2.0. The invisible lines. I agree on the need to clean up the visual clutter, but this seems to go against the idea of making her power easy to understand. It feels like the invisible lines will have no impact on experienced players, but potentially a massive impact on newer players.
4: Drone missiles: this makes sense.
5: Drone Hacking
The intention here is to introduce a greater degree of tension to hackingSorry, but you can't make a simple button pressing game tense beyond a few plays. You can't really make any mini-game that the other side can't interact with tense beyond a few games.
Also, disable + aura read? That makes disabling each and every drone such a no brainer that it pulls all tension away.
If instead we aren't disabling any longer, we're just hacking for intel that might not be that useful, and the drone could potentially become a missile, then that could be really engaging.
6: Red light, Green Light:
I know game developers hate to hear this but: meh. It goes back to my first point. We've already got tons of aura reading and the amount we currently have is already leading to some unengaging gameplay.
How about a Red Light, Green Light Mode that activates on and off on the Drones as her "ultimate" power akin to Nightfall. During this she can change the lights, in red light she moves slower but her drones will auto target anyone running, while in green light the drones do nothing but she moves normal/faster.
7: Final minor note on writing clarity. You alternate between calling them Stealth Drones and just Drones. Introducing them as Stealth Drones implies there must be some other type of drone (I kept expecting to read about it).
It would be if Trapper's traps were called Ground Traps, this would imply there was at least one other type of trap he had access to.
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@kit_mason kind of hit on some of the big factors, there's no right answer to this. Some I'll add.
Are god pallets being eaten up?
Is the chase happening around the critical gens?
When is it happening in the game? Early game chases should be longer.
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@MrT1412 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899857#Comment_3899857
I don't think the perk is on it's own problematic, but to say it's not strong because it sometimes doesn't get value is ridiculous. Match where the killer is spreading hooks already have so much in your favor as survivor that you don't need that perk slot.
It's like saying NOED or No Way Out are weak because you can win matches before endgame.
but to say it's not strong because it sometimes doesn't get value is ridiculous.The inability to get value though needs to be taken into consideration. That's true for a lot of perks in the game, narrowing it down to only the scenario where they get value is really missing the point.
There are so many cases where the perk is a waste. No tunneling, tunneling but the StB user is targeted, proxy camping where they hit the survivor who just used it and now they are on death hook and there's an injured survivor (in which case Reassurance would have been a much better perk). This is on top of issues in soloq where you might be in a perfect position to use the perk, but another survivor gets the save because there's no communication.
There are stronger 'help someone being tunneled' perks in the game that make using StB a weaker choice.
Edit to Add: NOED and No Way Out are bad counter examples because there's no situation where those perks are a waste. Unneeded is different than something being a waste. A better example might be something like Hex: Devour Hope or running Lightborn every game. If we just talk about games where Devour Hope gets to 5 tokens, its probably the strongest killer perk in the game. But its not the strongest perk, its generally not even considered that good, because most of the times it will just be a minor distraction for the survivors.
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This idea comes up every now and then. I think the biggest problem, presuming coding wasn't even an issue, would be on the killer side. The strength of certain perks really varies based on the killer so if we're going off usage rates a perk a killer who can make use of the less used perks would be in an incredibly strong position.
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@MrT1412 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899827#Comment_3899827
Forcing the killer to spread hooks makes a ton of games unwinnable. While you still have 12 hookstates to win, you no longer have someone dead at 5 or 6 hooks, and the game is lost. There's a huge difference between a survivor on death hook and two survivors hooked once.
The perk can delay the first death by one or two hooks and that's huge.
The perk can delay the first death by one or two hooks and that's huge."Can delay" is kind of the key phrase here. It can also get zero value in a lot of situations. Its similar to unbreakable, the perk can absolutely change the course of the game, but whether it is worth the occasional extreme value for lots of games of being useless is an important choice.
And basically everything in DbD can make a huge difference. Getting to a loop slightly faster, completing a heal, finishing a gen, sometimes little tiny things make a massive difference.
It's what makes DbD exciting.
The question here is what about StB makes it wrong? As a perk, it should get value. What's the scenario where the perks is unfair, broken, or makes the game unfun? Because if the answer is just - 'StB for last can be the deciding factor in the game', potentially, yeah, but that's lots of perks.
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People. generally, agree that there are tiers on killer, just as there are on survivor. The argument comes up when people seem to want to artificially limit the discussion. Ghostface, what map, SWF, how sweaty? Comparing a clock call out SWF against Ghostface on Eyrie is no better of a discussion than a soloq facing a cracked Nurse on Midwich.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
I've bought a single 1,000 auric cell pack in my entitre life. I've completed ALL the rifts to date with it. I feel like this has to be rare right?
Although I feel I may break my streak here. I want to buy Pinheads cosmetics……
FTR I support the game I've bought all DLC including the old cosmetic DLC.
I actually got my 1,000 auric cells from an Amazon Prime free offer. I've completed every rift since using those.
Otherwise I've purchased: the base game, both resident evils, Halloween, Sadako, Silent Hill, Freddy, and Saw. Everything was purchased on sale and otherwise I've just grinded out the shards for the new characters (which I usually buy during Halloween or the Anniversary when they are on sale) and purchased the licensed perks when the come up in the Shrine.
I'm very grateful there are people who purchase cosmetics, but they hold no appeal to me with all the free ones that are earned.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896672#Comment_3896672
During the Hex: Thrill of the Hunt meta I explained how some effects apply their modifiers since some people were making posts saying "just use Counter Force" when Counter Force was not a counter. People were throwing out odd numbers with how long it would take so I did some test and some math and calculated that Hex: Thrill of the Hunt specifically would apply before Counter Force, and since Counter Force was a variable % (not a flat %), it would receive a diminished effect from Hex: Thrill of the Hunt slowdown down the action speed first.
Keep in mind, this is not as detailed as it was in the original thread but it an example of an interaction between positive and negative modifiers that does display that negative does go before positive. Here is the original thread if you want a look for yourself:
DBD Math can be really weird, sometimes things you think would apply a certain way just dont, I often tend to record videos of stuff and trim the clips to see the time it took for an action to be completed, this way I can at least work backwards to determine how different perks are applying their values. Sometimes DBD also changes effects, sometimes the way that they apply can be changed when a perk is buffed/nerfed/reworked, which results in the time an action will take being altered by it.
To put it bluntly, stuff like this can be really complicated.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896579#Comment_3896579
The way I put it is a bit weird, so allow me to explain it a bit better.
Typically when you think of multiplicative values in a game, they typically follow everything else so they have the highest potential, DBD is a bit different in the sense that multiplicative values go before additive and variable percent values, this is because multiplicative values are designed specifically to scale off other multiplicative values being present, this is why effects like Call of Brine being stacked with Overcharge were so strong before they were hard nerfed.
DBD uses a lot of multiplicative values for negative modifiers since, as you mentioned, it makes it really difficult to reach an action speed of 0 C/S. But, DBD does have additive and flat modifiers that are negatively applied to action speed, which was my main point, that effects like that do exist. Specifically, the best example of this is how Thantaphobia affects Totem Cleansing Speed, since it actually provides a variable percent amount that happens after multiplicative modifiers (Hex: Thrill of the Hunt) are applied.
I come from the Warframe community, so a lot of what I do is math, spreadsheets, timing things, recording data, etc, it's needed for minmaxing gear, and this is just based on my own test, but I could have very well gotten the math wrong in some areas, I am human and I could have possible made a mistake along the way with my testing.
During the Hex: Thrill of the Hunt meta I explained how some effects apply their modifiers since some people were making posts saying "just use Counter Force" when Counter Force was not a counter. People were throwing out odd numbers with how long it would take so I did some test and some math and calculated that Hex: Thrill of the Hunt specifically would apply before Counter Force, and since Counter Force was a variable % (not a flat %), it would receive a diminished effect from Hex: Thrill of the Hunt slowdown down the action speed first.But this doesn't seem to disagree with what anyone, such @zarr is saying in this thread. The order of operations is not relevant here.
1*0.3*1.2=0.36
1*1.2*0.3=0.36
That is, and has always been, my understanding of how math in DBD works.
If we throw in something like leader the formula should be
1*0.3*(1+0.2+0.25) = 0.435
Writing it as
1*(1+0.2+0.25)*0.3=0.435
Let's do Thana with all 4 survivors injured, CF, and Leader
1*0.3*0.8*(1+0.2+0.25) = 0.348
Let's put the additives in the middle:
1*0.3*(1+0.2+0.25)*0.8 = 0.348
Hypothetically, let's imagine more than one leader could apply so we have a both 70% increase and a 70% decrease.
1*(1+0.2+0.25+0.25)*0.3 = 0.51
1*0.3*(1+0.2+0.25+0.25) = 0.51
What comes first is irrelevant. Increases are added to together before we start multiplication, but otherwise everything just gets multiplied together.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896570#Comment_3896570
Again, Im not completely disagreeing, a lot of negative effects are just straight up multiplicative, but some are based on % of the modified amount, again, to provide a diminished effect and prevent action speed from reaching zero. It is based on how the effect is applied, and there are some effects, where if you test it, and check the math, they are not ALL multiplicative, most are, but not all.
IDK HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO SAY THIS, but just check ingame through testing or do research to see how it applies, not all effects will apply the same or how you think they would apply.
IDK HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO SAY THIS, but just check ingame through testing or do research to see how it applies, not all effects will apply the same or how you think they would apply.Saying it doesn't really matter. If you have an example that disproves what the others are saying, just tell us the perks and people will go try them. Something like 'what you all are saying means X and Y should result in Z, but actually go run X and Y and you'll see it results in A'. That will make things much clearer on whether there is an example or if people are just talking past each other.
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Based off description, going to go @edgarpoop that its really experienced players doing some type of challenge.
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Secretly Zarina was supposed to tie in within Beyond Good and Evil 2, but that game is taking so long even BHVR got tired of waiting.
How hilarious would it be if Beyond Good and Evil was the legendary license that got away from BHVR. I'm just happy to see other people who remember that game.
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@tjt85 said:
People in this thread are talking like it's only Survivors that "go next". A fair chunk of my Survivor "escapes" are from Killers that DC because they're not doing so well in the match. This is just as dissatisfying to experience, if not even more so, because it's so rare to be in a Survivor trial where things are going well for a change. Face it, this happens on both sides and I think the reason is an MMR system that barely works for anyone at this point.
I don't know what they can do to fix it, but it's not uncommon to have multiple hopeless games in a row with the current system and I think it's contributing to a lot of player frustration and the go next phenomenon. One of the things that struck me about 2V8 was the huge diversity of skill levels in every match. Some trails would have very skilled players in them and others would have players that were… well, let's just say they were less skilled and leave it at that. But it made for a lot of variety in the games. I wasn't around for the old emblem based rank system, but I get the impression that 2V8 is a lot like that older system. I don't know, maybe BHVR should try to bring a little bit more of that back into the match making?
That said, it would be harder to replicate such variety for 1v4, since it's much easier to target weaker Survivors with camping and tunnelling and dump them out of the game early. By forcing an early 3v1, the trial becomes a lost cause and I think a lot of players at this point are past playing for hatch, which is little more than a lucky consolation prize to a lot of players.
This will be a controversial opinion, I know. But I also think the DC penalty is overly harsh for such a casual game. It should max out at a little over the average duration of a game, imo. This would encourage players who want to "go next" to DC and at least give everyone else a bot to play with, instead of ruining the experience entirely for 4 other people. Of course, if this isn't a long enough time out, there's a risk that players will begin to routinely DC over every little thing, which wouldn't be any kind of solution either. But it might still be better than the present situation. I also think there should be a timer added to the DC process (one that gives you 10 seconds to back out of DCing and cool down after a moment of rage).
Some trails would have very skilled players in them and others would have players that were… well, let's just say they were less skilled and leave it at that. But it made for a lot of variety in the games. I wasn't around for the old emblem based rank system, but I get the impression that 2V8 is a lot like that older system. I don't know, maybe BHVR should try to bring a little bit more of that back into the match making?2v8 and 1v4 have differences that makes less strict matchmaking working in 2v8. With 8 survivors and the catch up mechanic, 1 survivor who isn't that good at the game is not that significant. 1v4 is really different, a single survivor well below the skill level of the others can basically decide the match.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895371#Comment_3895371
And as someone said earlier, they're adding KB&M for consoles. So… this makes zero sense.
Friend hypothesizes they are trying to lower the player pool so there's reason to bring in dbd2 with a new engine, code, etc.
Im not sure Im on board with that, as that gives BHVR a LOT of credit. But I suppose anything is possible.
Friend hypothesizes they are trying to lower the player pool so there's reason to bring in dbd2 with a new engine, code, etc.That would be very silly to sabotage a very profitable game to have to renegotiate all of your licenses and hope the players come back and buy new stuff. Live service is a really tough market to actually get a playerbase for.
Even temporary pauses like we are in for QoL initiative are extremely risky.
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Doesn't the development of killers start like a year before release? I'm not sure I've ever heard a number beyond it starting well before, but I know it would have to quite a while.
Saying - 'hey, you get an extra 5% development time' isn't going to remove bugs.
Also bugs are always easier to find once the game is 'in the wild'.
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@Vishlumbra said:
A few months ago I made quite a few discussions pointing out the issues within the game, and the reason why slugging, tunneling and camping exist. Clearly we are getting to the point where is just obvious BH wants to improve survivor experience while letting killers suffer from an unbalanced gameplay.
1- When you have players suffering anxiety for playing killer in your game, you might want to take a look into it.
2- When you check out how it works on competitive, where you have top skill players and how it’s necessary to implement rules to nerf survivors and give 95% of your killer roster a fighting chance, you might want to consider balance and current state of things. Every single competitive match requires slugging, camping and tunneling. Not saying is fun, just pointing out there’s a reason.
3- Balancing makes no sense. Specially the latest Xenomorph nerf. A killer by no means considered OP by anyone, gets completely butchered. It’s better to manually cancel your power instead of waiting for the flame to go down. When you increase 15 times the time it takes for flames to start dissipating, that’s just insane and a null understanding of your own game. 15 times. 1500% nerf. Now the heat dissipation went from 25 a second to 2 per second after 15 seconds of waiting. That’s a 92% slower rate. Glitchmaster made the math and for 50 fire to dissipate right now it takes 3 seconds, now it’s going to take 40 seconds. When you nerf something by this much, you simply have no sense of your own game.
4- The second phase is scary just by reading about it. Every single chance you keep nerfing perks and killers while buffing survivor perks. You patch the symptoms instead of the disease and you keep getting more issues one after the next.
5- I think you should just remove pibs and rank from killers all together; make it a number of matches a month to obtain iridescent, try to take the edge off and the will to win. Your philosophy is clearly guided by the majority of complaints of survivors, while neglecting the killers. Just make it so everyone plays casually, only for fun.
6- There are 3 maybe 4 strong killers out of the full roster. Those remain untouched. Either nerf everything to the ground and just make it more fun to play killer and function as a entertainer for survivors and reward that kind of play-style or balance gens and progress to match your killer roster.
Personally I am taking a break from the game and this forum. It’s been disappointing time and time again reading about these changes that make no substantial improvement and just fail to attend the current balance.
1: Survivors "suffer" anxiety to, that's the interesting point of those discussions is that people feel huge levels of stress from different roles.
I put suffer in quotes because that's also the thing that draws people to the game. The feel of the heart pounding, the desire to win, the fear of defeat, are exactly the things a horror game should go for. If it goes too far, players should take a break, something the Devs themselves have said.
2: This is an oversimplification of comp. Survivors get massive boosts compared to the main game. Mainly, knowing the killer they are going to face is an absolute giant nerf to the killer player that people seem to forget about.
They also don't need to give the killer a fighting chance. Both sides get a chance on killer. They could play perkless Trapper and it would still be balanced. Most of their changes are based around styles of play they want to limit (which again I think benefits the survivors by narrowing the game).
Finally, they really should rethink the level of survivor nerfs they've done. I've been watching the Winter Series and the amount of 4ks without gens being finished makes for boring videos.
Also why would a company care more about players who are creating their own rules instead of the base game that BHVR has made and has hundreds of thousands of players?
3: There've been decisions to killers, perks, on both sides over the years that haven't made sense. We'll see how the data shakes out as Alien gets played and what they do with her when it actually gets to live. Using things that haven't even made it to live is a huge reach.
4: We'll see when we get more details.
5: I'm always surprised that people actually pay attention to pips.
6: There is exactly one type of survivor and maybe as many strong builds as there are varieties of strong killer. Not sure why one is deserving of more S tier opportunities than the other.
Personally I am taking a break from the game and this forum. It’s been disappointingThat's fair. I'm more surprised by the people who seem to hate the game, but still put thousands of hours into it.
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@Nyllawafer_ said:
I know that this one might be an extremely hot take but slugging responsibly, as to create pressure or when someone is purposfully trying to get themselves hooked, or even when i've all but confirmed they had decisive strike. I'm worried that my main pressure tool is going to be gutted by the new slugging update
slugging responsiblyThe fact that you had to put the word responsibly after slugging answers the question.
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@Interrupt_Vector said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894513#Comment_3894513
Survivors can choose S tier items and killers can choose S tier killers.
Well what's the most extreme scenario? An S tier killer on meta build. Do the items need to stay at this level of power to make those games even? Probably, though if the syringe took more time to heal I think that would be a reasonable change.
It's sort of an arms race that leads to a rather monotone situation where top survivors will bring this stuff and then only face Blight, Nurse, Billy,…
I like going against competent SWF groups, but things like map offerings combined with Syringes + Sabo or Gen Rush builds are really overkill when you're not facing any of the above mentioned killers.
Playing Trapper is already choosing hard mode, the opposition choosing easy mode with that stuff makes some matches so hilariously one-sided that you have to ask yourself why you're even trying.
There is hardly an inbetween, either you are facing potatoes or SWF that will definitely bring this stuff, because why not.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894515#Comment_3894515
The game is largely about time management and building momentum. Syringes basically allow you to do two things at once. Repair a generator while getting passively healed, or reset a chase with no downside. A syringe vs an M1 killer is just straight up unfair since the killer can't do anything about it. Drop two pallets and hold W and you've reset the chase. Do that 4x and you've wasted so much of the killers time that there is next to no way to recover.
All of the SWF in those screenshots were nice to me and some stated that they want to face more Bubba, Pig, etc… Which is just simply not happening at those MMR levels. Because M1 killers cannot possibly compete with that stuff.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894519#Comment_3894519
It would be braindead to believe that this warrants a nerf for killers. That would even make the problem I've mentioned worse.
Namely that top MMR survivors will only face Blight, Nurse and other busted killers.
Look I'm a killer main and even I would say delete nurse, nerf blight and at the same time adjust stuff like syringes. Take everything down a notch so that top MMR can experience a bit more variety.
Also I mentioned that I am certainly an exception. A god gamer if you will. You can't take my performance and balance around it because I am abnormal. I am a beast, ok? This has nothing to do with it.
I'm not here to call for nerfs, I am asking around for experiences and opinions. What I have in mind is breaking the stalemate that top MMR is facing. Also the screens I posted were mostly the wins, I also lost quite a few games. I think in that Bubba game I got 2 hooks, maybe 3. It was hilarious how little of a chance I had to do anything whatsoever.
It's sort of an arms race that leads to a rather monotone situation where top survivors will bring this stuff and then only face Blight, Nurse, Billy,…That's the game. Pretty much always has been (and was even more extreme when things like BMPs could autocomplete a gen).
DbD has a difficulty slider, far more than most multiplayer games. As has come up in this thread, its needed for the grind, if there weren't better items, what would be the point of BP? And without the grind, the game likely would have died off awhile ago as while it is annoying, it keeps players invested.
When/if MMR works, it is self-correcting. If a survivor is a skill of 6 and a syringe takes him to a 7, it all balances out by eventually giving him skill 7 killers (though, as BHVR themselves admit, he's now stuck always using top level items or going to have a lot of losses). Works the same for killers, camp and tunnel, run busted addons, you'll start getting SWFs.
I think MMR does work a little better than most. If I see a Wesker, for example, running the addon that starts people infected, he usually isn't that good. Hit a Wesker not running that, usually very skilled.
I'd rip this system out and burn it to the ground if I could, but it would require a complete redesign of both survivors and killers to accomplish and many people like the way the game is set up.
Playing Trapper is already choosing hard modeYes and no.
The defensive killers (Trapper, Hag, SM) should enter the game with a strategy. Implementing that strategy should be relatively easy (hex trapper, basement trapper, Iri trapper, etc). If the survivors ID the strategy and have the build to counter it quick enough, you're probably going to lose.
But in terms of the difficulty of playing? I don't think its that hard.
Then you have the things like the Hens video were he won the majority of his vids playing just M1 trapper and the reddit player who achieved a really high win rate with basement trapper (I think that was his build).
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894517#Comment_3894517
Completely free? Hold up, need to format this correctly.
syringes give way too much for completely free. You are In a chase while injured? Pop a syringe, wait 24s and voila, chase has been made completely worthless for killer.
Completely free? It's not free. It needs to be used in that specific little scenario. And then you still need to evade. And then you still need to account for any perks that might slow that heal down.
Killers have stated many times they want survivors to get better and stop quitting/complaining. This is exactly that. These survivors seem to know how to survive, so because they have, time to zone in on something as the reason they're winn- omg they brought a medkit addon. Where's the headsman!?
This is getting old. Synringes aren't busted for this reason. So lets find out what else it could be.
Also, since you can do whatever you want when you pop a syringe, you can pop it, hop on a gen and save 24+ seconds while removing agency from the killer because resetting would mean no doing gens, while in case of using syringes it's completely opposite.
Correct. If it goes the other way, and you hit the survivor before that time limit, everything the survivor did was for absolutely nothing. Moreso, they're more in the hole than if they just went without the syringe. Its a hell of a risk reward and for survivors, its very much worth taking that risk. You have issues with that risk being rewarded. Would you feel its better with an increased heal time?
And there is no agency removed. The killer can still do any and everything they want. This is a longstanding term that gets tossed in to accentuate a point. But in this case its just not a thing.
It's a free unconditional tool for completely cancelling killer's pressure, and you can have 4 of them for a total value of 96+ seconds (which is one complete gen) if everybody does pop it on themselves.
It is not free and unconditional. It takes a lil bit of skill to use in chase, and as easy as self care if you're not in chase. If a survivor goes down in 13 seconds into chase, the killer says they need to learn to loop. If you can't win because survivors used one time heals in the match, you need to learn to loop. If all it takes is 2 pallets, you need to learn to loop. Im not trying to be a douche here, but it'll probably be taken that way anyway. Apologies.
I am not going into the abilities of SWF, as even without items at all, SWF will destroy. A syringe or 4 won't change that. (If it does, then syringes really aren't that bad.)
@Interrupt_Vector Playing Trapper is already choosing hard mode, the opposition choosing easy mode with that stuff makes some matches so hilariously one-sided that you have to ask yourself why you're even trying.
Trapper does fine in a SWF setting usually. Why? People who like to ######### on him and say he's hardmode have spread the gospel as if it were true, and so now everyone thinks its true. But he's a stomper if played well. Trapper is a bad example of a bad killer, imo. But its all subjective.
Skill issue? How can it be a skill issue if I am playing at that MMR and still win with a Trapper? Come on now.
just get 1 free hitMy brother in Christ "just 1 hit" can decide a match. x4 is simply cooked. Add a map offering and the proper build on a 4man on discord and you're in for a fun time.
Wow, walking a line there. 'Just 1 hit' has decided many matches. 'Just 1 hit' has also not decided matches. Seems kind of a pointless talking point for @jedimaster505 as well. 1 hit can decide a match. 1 vault can decide a match. 1 exposed hit can decide a match. 1 lightborn can decide a match. 1 deadhard can decide a match. Lets nerf everything that can decide a match.
I understand that that one free hit is probably not worth much when you're going against a giga blight or nurse. But that opens up the question: "Do you really want to go against that giga blight or nurse every game?"
Yes, I do, but thats not really related lol. More Blights, the Merrier imo.
I rarely play blight. I don't want to play nurse. I main Huntress, Billy and Bubba. I love playing Trapper, Clown and Pig. But my MMR is so boosted from my Huntress matches that playing Pig feels like an exercise in masochism.
As far as I know, Killer MMR is per killer. Your Bubba might be in SWF hell, but anyone else will have their own MMR rank. Unless this is wrong/has changed.
Also literally everyone on these forums are in your SWF high MMR god bracket. So feel comfort that you're like everyone else here :)
Whew. I need a drink lol
As far as I know, Killer MMR is per killer. Your Bubba might be in SWF hell, but anyone else will have their own MMR rank. Unless this is wrong/has changed.Your higher ranked killers can pull up your other killers. I don't know if the exact mechanics have been disclosed (I want to say the top five create an average that serves as a baseline and/or if you get any killer above a certain thresh hold that sets a baseline that all of your killers start at).
If it wasn't like this, every time a new killer was released it would take like a week before they began to appear in high MMR lobbies, and that obviously is not the case.
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@theonryo123 said:
I feel like when people mention killer. They should refer to which killer you face instead of making it like all the killers are the same and that’s not the case. Some weak M1 killers have it harder than most strong killers. For example Ghostface Pig Onryo they should go to small maps because it’s more balance for them. As for Nurse Blight and Billy who are extremely fast they should be sent to Big maps because it’s balanced.
I think its a reasonable suggestion, with a few problems. I think it has zero percent chance of happening, but as a hypothetical it has some merits.
It would allow the developers to design maps around groups of killers. Trap killers having maps with grass, fast killers on larger maps, etc.
Why I don't think it will happen
1: I doubt they would spend the time grouping killers into categories, assigning them maps, and then when releasing new maps either making multiple variants or releasing a new map and being like 'only for the following killers'
2: It would further mess with map offerings. Many players would like this as an idea, but I doubt BHVR wants to further nerf them.
3: Gives an advantage, and then takes it away. Killers who can get around the map quickly frequently suffer in other areas. If the distance that needed to be covered was no longer as big an issue, suddenly their kit just doesn't look weak, but kind of pointless.
4: Goes against the spirit of randomness of the game. Each trial is not designed to be balanced. Sometimes the odds are in your favor, sometimes not. Variety over balance seems to be the design (I agree with them on this).
5: And of course, as usually comes up with suggestions like this, what killers are viewed as weak varies based on region and MMR.
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We already know that a lot of survivor mains insist that it is not so, but the current meta proves that they very well know it's true.Of course syringes are strong, especially when comparing to the maximum value a survivor can get from items. If you're just out to win its either that, BMPs, or aura reading keys as your sweatiest choices. You then have a few options that can be pretty good, extra charge medkit or skill check medkit, flashlight with background player, sabotage builds in a SWF, but syringes and BMPs are the most straight forward.
While I don't like the way the game is designed, it is how the game works - the game has very clear 'superior' items/addons, and then a lot of junk. Survivors can choose S tier items and killers can choose S tier killers.
The question is, is this supposed to be it? Will it stay this way? Should it stay this way?Well what's the most extreme scenario? An S tier killer on meta build. Do the items need to stay at this level of power to make those games even? Probably, though if the syringe took more time to heal I think that would be a reasonable change.