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cluxdx

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  • As a killer main I'm going to HARD disagree. DS already deactivates every time that survivor progresses the game, and while it can suck to get DS'd at an open gate, if you just trade with the rescuer you can still secure your one kill during EGC anyway.

  • @ukenicky said:

    Can't wait for killers to still complain about it after it gets nerfed like they still do with DS on a daily basis.

    I'm actually 100 percent fine with the way DS is now as are most killer mains; that's a fat strawman there.

  • Cut its distance in half and give the Endurance status effect instead of the I-frames. Makes it less effective as a distance tool (its objectively best use at high level) and more effective when actually dodging a hit (the only genuinely skillful use of it).

    It also removes its potential to be a get-out-of-jail-free card because if you use it to make up for messing up a loop the killer can just wait it out. I'd love to see Dead Hard be more of a protection hit tool than a distance tool, and that seems like an interesting way to do it.

  • Coco can't catch a break. I think he gets targeted more than other streamers because he insists on waiting until the cheater gives up and DCs when he gets held hostage.

  • @some_guy1 said:

    were these clips taken yesterday? im asking that becuase every tuesday steam does server maintenance that probably caused this issue

    otherwise it's probably survivor's connection being really bad

    It was hours after Steam maintenance was finished, and like I said, the servers never went down because a friend of mine was also doing a killer game of his own while in a Discord call with me. The match also wouldn't get canceled more than 5 minutes in because a survivor lost connection, they'd just get DC'd. The person from the first clip DC'd after I downed them on death hook, but it was immediately when I hooked a different guy my game froze.

  • @prion11 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2828743#Comment_2828743

    agree on all maps, but I don't understand coldwind. maybe I just haven't been playing long enough but coldwind maps seem balanced to me, how are they surv sided?

    There is literally not a single unsafe pallet on any Coldwind map, vision is incredibly limited on most of them, cornvision got worse with the graphical updates, scratch marks are nigh impossible to track with in corn, and they consistently spawn one of the best "generic" tiles in the game in the form of a long wall hay tile with a god pallet in the center.

    The tile I'm referring to:

    image.png


  • I disagree with this. Personally I'd replace breakable walls with breakable vaults so the killer is actually rewarded for breaking them by rendering the loop essentially useless afterward.

  • There are only two maps in the entire game that are decently killer-sided across the majority of the cast, being Midwich and Saloon. On the other hand, there are a great many maps that can just feel like absolute ass across the majority of the killer cast.

    All of the Coldwinds are survivor-favored, all of the Badhams are aggressively survivor-favored, Haddonfield was aggressively survivor-favored and probably still will be after its rework, Gideon is pallet heaven and now very survivor-favored, RPD is very survivor-favored, Eyrie is very survivor-favored, and of course both Red Forests are survivor-favored as well. That's 16 maps that the majority of killers tend to struggle on, compared to 2 that the majority is very good on.

    That said, the biggest reason people say the game is survivor-sided is because the only killers that have an actually fair chance at winning against equally skilled opponents are the S tiers, while the rest of the killer cast is slowly being left in the dust due to MMR and CoH.

  • @Sluzzy said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761359#Comment_2761359

    Because killer is so much easier. Killer shouldn't necessarily be OP at any level.

    This overall statistic hides how much killers win when experienced with meta perks. There is a lot of new killers playing being matched with experienced SWFs causing the kill stats to be low.

    Yeah if you're saying killer is "so much easier" I can already tell you don't know what you're talking about and have never played the role against any remotely competent survivors. That said, I'll attempt to address you in a legitimate manner.

    First off, learning to play killer at top level currently has a considerably larger time commitment because individual survivors are just skins and there are really only a few general strategies depending on the killer (pre-drop against ranged killers, W gamer against 115s, play the info game against Nurse/Spirit), whereas every single killer has a unique power that takes time to master. Sure there are general skills that need learned and can translate from one killer to another and some killers are easier than others, but it can still take anywhere from hundreds to thousands of hours to properly master any one killer power depending on its difficulty and intricacies. You are not gonna tell me you can just pick up Blight and do perfect 180 lunges and scoot surfs and not have me laugh in your face.

    Secondly, killers have FAR more to manage because of the nature of asymmetrical games. Every time you chase one guy, you have to worry about what the other three are doing. You have to find ways to get as many people off gens as possible because there is no way you can win off 1v1 alone even as the best killers in the game; high level Nurses still have to slug and tunnel to secure kills in tournaments because of that reason. Your goal should be to have at least 2 people off gens virtually the entire game, whether that be off of hooking and gen pressure or off either slugging or tunneling to remove someone from the equation entirely.

    Lastly, I'd argue this statistic hides how much the survivors can have in their favor because it's all ranks rather than people who've hit the soft-cap, and because survivors often die due to altruism late-game when they could just 3 man out the killer and end in a win. I can't count the amount of completely lost games I've pulled back purely because people thought they had a little too much leeway and/or got too cocky when they could've just let me get my one kill and left. Easily a quarter of my games are won because they spent more time clicking me than slamming the last 2 gens, and that's not even mentioning the amount of wins I still get because of getting players far below my skill level because MMR is struggling to do its job properly.

  • @Tr1nity said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761437#Comment_2761437

    I think the issue with COH is trying to nerf it without making it a SWF only perk, if you remove the self-care part, it would only help SWF, who can communicate "Heal me at the Boon."

    Though nerfing boons to make kicking a boon destroy the totem would make sense.

    McLean said he'd personally want to see the speed buff removed entirely and reduce the range to 16m so it's JUST a small range where people can self-heal, but of course he has no input anymore so it's not like his opinion will change much. I do think that would help solve the problem though. IMO letting the killer break the totem is the best, but whatever.

  • @Pizzasauce said:

    I would argue she's the Laurie Strode of the Scream series, but she is not included in DBD. Is there any particular reason why?

    There is no Scream chapter; the likeness of Ghostface is owned by Fun World, and that's all they paid for. To be honest I would hate a Scream-style Ghostface in DBD; it just wouldn't fit at all to have some immature, bumbling fool from a parody movie in the Entity's realm, and frankly he would just be terrible if his ability was that "phone call" garbage I keep seeing people suggest on the forums every so often. I much prefer the professional killer approach BHVR took with their version, and I do think it evolves the look of Ghostface into something actually fairly menacing.

  • @Dramzar_Myers said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/301503/incredibly-easy-fixes-bhvr-will-probably-never-implement

    Questionable only NOED. I think it's just fine at the way it works now,

    But with rest I agree. Especially CoH. This survivor totems make Pentemento totally useless

    Pentimento being dead on arrival was extremely upsetting. Made no sense to me that they introduce a mechanic that disincentivizes cleansing, then added a killer perk that requires survivors cleanse for it to work. With snuffing the way it is now I'm surprised they didn't make killer able to light dulls with Pentimento. Then again, the devs don't even play their own game nor do they listen to the Fog Whisperers, so what can I expect?


  • @Ravio_Li said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2712386#Comment_2712386

    The BNP nerf would just be nerfing an already gutted item that barely gets used by deleting it before you can get full use out of it unless BNPs get buffed based on the toolbox + other add-on used.

    For the those med kit add-ons, yeah I kinda forget that it works on just one charge left. Maybe could make it charge dependent for them, meaning if they have a lot of charges for a syringe, it will be fast, but waste the entire medkit, or low charge it will be a long passive heal which they can't do in your face, and for the syptic a full purple with a green charge add-on would last more than 8 seconds of invuln, but a near empty green would only give you like, 2 seconds.

    I just can't justify having a totem break, but there could definitely be a timer for boons, like once it's snuffed you can't reapply it for like, 2-3 mins on the same totem. They're odd to balance, because of the timesink, but the only one that really anyone seems to complain about is CoH, so probably a nerf to healing speed. Maybe make it only a self-heal increase or less drastic of an increase on healing others. I don't think it'd be fun to shutdown an entire playstyle in like 10 seconds, while also setting up one of the potentially strongest slowdown perks in the game because of totems breaking. If snuffing stays the way it is, fine. But if it's a 2 second for a break, that's where I have a problem.

    Eh, NOED has been through a lot of changes, and it's in the most balanced state it's ever been in. I like the "Oh #########" moments caused by it, and it just being able to be drained away by missed swings honestly, just seems lame.

    I still don't see a problem with map offerings. Killers ones are weighted more (higher chance than a survivors offering), so you can always bring your own to combat it and go to a map YOU want to go to, and sacrificial wards while band-aidy, are still a good option. The only other options if you really get upset about the 4 Man SWF bully squads are to just not play the game in fear of them. They are not that common, and if you think they're a 4 man SWF with comms before the match starts, you can leave the lobby, and requeue. If you don't notice until after, play the game, go afk, or DC. It's not like they are holding you hostage unless it's a hacker SWF, which is probably even more rare.

    BNP is already an additional 2 second time save (~13s) over a Commodious with no add-ons (~11s). I don't think essentially doubling the toolbox with no Built To Last-esque time sink is particularly fair.

    Part of my issue is the fact that, with good players, even a 2-3 minute cooldown would do next to nothing with CoH. Good players are going to set it somewhere out of the killer's way to create a safe zone for heals, which means the killer has to waste 20+ seconds of their time to get to it and snuff it. Even a cooldown there won't fix the issue because they'll still eventually be able to set it again on that same out of the way, time wasting totem. And CoH increases game time already to the point a cooldown of that length is almost meaningless outside of dealing with bully squads. IMO the only way to fix the out of the way totem issue is by having the killer's time sink rewarded by rendering that totem permanently useless to the survivors when snuffed. And screw it, make the break 5 seconds then. I'd much rather sink an extra 3 than have to deal with RPD library totem again in my entire life. That said, anything CLOSE to the survivors' 14 second time sink would be a joke considering that, like I said, killer time is 4 times as important.

    And I agree NOED is completely balanced as it stands. I do, however, take issue with it being a degen, unhealthy perk that can reward people who played poorly with free, unearned kills. My point is to make it something equally as strong, but only if you don't play like garbage. Bare minimum I'd like a system that requires you to actually play the game before the gens get finished.

    And basically saying "just deal" with a horrible, unbalanced thing like map offerings just because it "isn't that common" is a dumb argument to me, and it's the same reason we had old Object running amok for literal years. And that's not to mention they definitely are very common in high MMR; not to bring up Otz again but I do recall him getting 7 or 8 map offerings in a row recently. At the very least they could reduce the chance by 20% for every member in your party or something.

  • @Ravio_Li said:

    BNP's used to consume the toolbox, but it legitimately did the entire gen, I don't see a reason to consume it, but the inconsistency with the medkit add-ons that functioned similarly is odd. I see no reason to nerf toolboxes more than they already have been, by making it consume the toolbox anymore.

    I see no problem with the medkit add-ons in their current state. They consume the medkit, giving you a sign that they used one of the 2, and you have to take the gamble of which. God forbid there be mindgames from the survivor.

    I see no problem with the gen/hook faking, it's not like they're trying to get you to grab them for DS, and it's just a time waster move.

    If the killer can break the totem, it should take more than 2 seconds to snuff it out, or boon totems should be able to be applied faster. I'd be more down for a rework of the perk than it destroying the totem.

    NOED is fine as it is, it's a very high risk high reward perk, as you are taking a perk that potentially might not get any use. It's ok for noob crutches to exist.

    Map offerings are a weird mix bag. There exists an offering to cancel them out, but if all 4 of them bring in the same one it overrides it, but to be honest I have never seen every survivor bring the same map offering. I'd say just buff the Sacrificial Ward to never be overridden, and make it a common offering so people can actually try to collect them.

    The speedhack suggestion though? Genius. I hope they actually do something along those lines.

    That BNP nerf would do nothing to toolboxes on the whole; it would only affect BNP, which when used in conjunction with a good toolbox is an inordinately large time save compared to the other add-ons.

    The issue with instaheals is also that you can use them to get an extra heal (or 8 second immunity) out of a medkit for free; doesn't matter if you have 32 charges left or just 1. Ranger + Gel Dressings + Anti-Hemo on multiple survivors is basically a pre-lit CoH by itself.

    Grabs are meant to be a mechanic that prevents survivors from doing certain actions in your face. A pickup or M1 is quite often the difference between whether or not a gen is finished in your face, and baiting it in those situations does far more than just "waste time"

    Why should snuffing take more than 2 seconds? Killer time is 4 times as important as Survivor time, so at the moment going 4 seconds out of your way to snuff, spending 2 seconds to snuff, then 4 seconds going back to patrolling—a 10 second time sink—is roughly equivalent to a single survivor doing absolutely nothing for 40 seconds, 2 survivors for 20 seconds, 3 for around 13, or the entire team for those 10 seconds. That's not even talking about the instances where survivors set the totem in an area out of the killer's way.

    NOED is a low-risk-variable-reward perk if you ask me. If they do all the bones, they still spent 70 seconds with one survivor not doing gens. If they do no bones and slam gens, you will most likely get value unless the totem lights up directly next to a survivor as the last gen is finished. Honestly the biggest risk of NOED is not having a perk slot until the endgame. My change still would leave genuinely decent players largely unaffected.

    Sac Wards are a band-aid on the problem. I should not have to bring a specific offering just so a 4 man on comms can't cater their entire builds around one specific map for a free win just because they feel like it.

  • @Crowman said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2712259#Comment_2712259

    It's a hex perk. Those are perks that survivors can remove from the game. Adding extra conditions to a hex perk will make it garage. See release Hex: Blood Favor.

    NOED is fine as it is. I get finding it annoying, but it's not strong enough that it really warrants such a harsh nerf that you are suggesting.

    That depends on the condition. Hooks are a thing that just happen. I never proposed a cap on stacks, so in theory you could get as many instadowns as you want granted you get enough hooks. As it stands, NOED rewards bad players and good players equally. If you require that killers need to actually play relatively okay to get the full value out of it I think that's fine. It would make it far less unfair to people who outperform the killer the entire match just to get downed and killed for free by a killer who otherwise would have hooked no one all game, and it would do almost nothing to a killer that actually plays well.

    And it is definitely possible to have hex perks with stacks and conditions that are very good. See Hex: Devour Hope.

  • @Tr1nity said:

    I don’t know if I’m looking at this wrong but couldn’t someone just make you run faster?

    No they couldn't. Everything you do on your screen in DBD is client-sided. You can control a lot of things like gen placements and whatnot, but you cannot control someone else's player model because you don't have access to their client. There is currently no available hacks that can alter other players' speeds.

  • @Crowman said:

    So you want NOED to be a totem perk and a perk with stacks? What a harsh nerf for a perk that isn't that difficult to counter. You have plently of time to locate the lit totem when the gens are finished.

    IMO it wouldn't be much of a nerf at all if you don't suck and can at least get a few hooks before all the gens are done.

  • @Marigoria said:

    "Gen/Hook Pickup failure - Add a .25s exit animation for unhooks and gens so people can't bait the pickup and instead have to commit to the animation or run." But why? Wouldnt that just make facecamping even easier? I don't see how it is an issue right now.

    A few points on that:

    -The objectively best counter to facecamping is doing the gens and 3 man outing them. Does it suck for that one guy that dies unfairly? Yes, but IMO it's far better than the alternative, which is rewarding and enabling a toxic playstyle that is otherwise opting to lose the game for one kill. The more you leave them get their one and leave, the less people will facecamp.

    -Wouldn't really hurt things that much anyway. .25s is not very long and requires moderately fast reaction time to be able to get the pickup in that time considering latency is a factor. People also tend to crowd hooks to unhook against facecamping killers, and that wouldn't change at all considering the killer can't manage 3 people at once. All someone has to do is bodyblock while their teammate unhooks and the killer can't stop them. A lot of people already do that now.

    -Even if you manage to unhook against a facecamping killer by yourself now, you still guarantee them a trade on the hook, putting your team in the exact same situation.

  • @Myla said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2712229#Comment_2712229

    But it exists and there's no use talking about What ifs then we all just adjust to what's happening. I think DS is garbage in high MMR no amount of justification would change my mind.

    If you're gonna be that way, I'll stoop a little lower then.

    If you genuinely think DS is a garbage perk there is no chance in fresh hell that you are high MMR

  • @Myla said:

    Eh I think the timer and deactivation is fine as it is. I think DS is an overrated garbage perk anyway barely works in high mmr. Maybe like 1-2 out of 10 games you wished you had DS.

    But think for a second about the amount of times you would have gotten tunneled and re-hooked immediately had the perk never existed in the first place. It's extremely powerful because it conditions how the other side has to play simply by virtue of being in the game. For that reason alone it always has been one of the best perks in the game. Same deal with Unbreakable. Killers are extremely hesitant to play a certain way because it requires you to absorb a lot of risk in that they may have one of these perks. Before Unbreakable THE winning strategy was to just leave everyone slugged because there was nothing they could do about it. If DS never existed tunneling would just result in a free kill at 4 gens and an easy 4k nearly every game.

  • @dspaceman20 said:

    Why does bnp and septic and hemo need a nerf they seem fine

    You see no problem whatsoever in the fact that people can dump an entire Ranger Medkit w/ charge add-ons into themselves over the course of a game, and then because they have a few charges left (but nowhere near enough to heal themselves fully) they can just press a button and be fine? Okay then.

    And BNP? Really? BNP by itself removes roughly 13s from a solo gen. With a full Commodious it's over 21 seconds, even more if you add Scraps or Wire Spool. One BNP is easily enough to swing an entire game if used at the right time. Have you ever faced a squad running 4? I've seen a few, and you stand no chance of pulling it back even if you have Ruin, Undying, No Way Out and NOED.

  • @ThatOneDemoPlayer said:

    As I've stated multiple times, NOED is fine. The rest of the changes are cool

    I agree from a balance standpoint, but I do see the survivor perspective on how annoying it is when you loop a killer for 5 gens just to get Bloodlusted and slapped with NOED, then facecamped to death while all your teammates just leave, giving the killer a free kill they did nothing to earn.

  • @Phasmamain said:

    Problem with the COH change is it puts shadowstep and exponential in the dirt even though they are balanced. Just nerf COH itself

    I disagree there. Nobody ever needs or wants to proc Shadowstep or Exponential more than once or twice, and I think a potential 5 uses is more than enough considering at that point you're just wasting your own time to set it.

  • I was a survivor main...for about the first 2 weeks. I only bought the game originally because my friends played it, so we would SWF. I very quickly grew tired of sitting on generators with little else to do so I tried killer, had way more fun and committed to being a killer main from then on. I'm a pretty solid survivor but at this point I only ever play the role every now and then when I get frustrated and need a few games away from playing killer and/or have a daily.

    Killers just have way more to do so it is more actively engaging to me, plus it gets a lot less monotonous when there are over 20 killers I can switch between. There's also a lot more intricacy to the role because of each killer's unique power and how they interact with different builds, so it keeps me a lot more fulfilled in my constant need for improvement.

  • @Seanzu said:

    This whole conversation doesn't make sense anyway because all survivors are the same, killers need a bigger variety of perks because powers work better with some than others, let me give some examples not on your "meta killer perks".

    Infectious is meta on fast down killers like Oni, Billy, Nurse, Spirit & Leatherface

    Sloppy / Brutal Strength are meta on M1 killers like Wraith, Trapper, Hag, Doc, Myers, Legion etc

    Iron Maiden is meta on Huntress / Trickster

    and besides, this benefits killers even more because they're more likely to unlock all teachables without levelling each chartacter, unlike survivors who will have to spend more bp and in game time to get all the teachables because the same perks show up more often and they also have 11 more perks than killer. (That's 33 more bloodwebs to max a survivor btw)

    There is no denying that there are perks that are on the general deemed as "meta" for killers on the whole. For example, Tinkerer and Discordance are most definitely meta tracking perks. And slowdown is a bare minimum requirement for competitive killers, therefore perks like Pop and Ruin are definitely meta. Corrupt Intervention is also the single most universal killer perk in the game, and as such is definitely meta. There is without question a general trend of killer perks that are seen at high level far more often than others. Are you gonna tell me that Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer wasn't the meta because killers like myself still ran Pop and BBQ in some builds? One-off killer perk picks like Huntress with Iron Maiden is kind of a moot point because that still isn't the general trend for the vast majority of killers.

    Side note: Sloppy is not good on Legion. Frenzy attacks are not basic attacks.

    Regardless, I'm leaving this thread here. I simply aimed to bring forth stats, and I feel I've said all there is to be said for my side of the argument.

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2331478#Comment_2331478

    Okay so, firstly, have you heard of paragraphs? It makes your writing significantly easier to read.

    The pattern in my eyes has far too large a sample size to not have even remotely evened out over time. I mean we're talking about more than 4 1/2 years of data.

    Are we now? Because if we take a look at the perks you're on about most of them barely break through the 4 year mark, with the exception of perks from the original characters.

    Also if we take a look at the perks on the survivor side, every single perk except for Dead Hard was released within a year of the game's release. Dead Hard was released on 27th July 2017, so just over a year and a month after the release. Looking at the killer side, Tinkerer, Ruin, Devour, and STBFL are the only perks released in this timeframe (BBQ was 14th September 2017). PGTW, Discordance, and Corrupt were Year 2 perks, while Thrilling was a Year 3 perk and Undying was a Year 4 perk.

    So, it's hardly a fair comparison.

    Furthermore, look at how many times Calm Spirit, Urban Evasion, or Botany Knowledge has appeared in the Shrine.

    Sure, it's possible to flip a coin 500 times and land heads on all of them, but it isn't feasible to do that without doing something to deliberately make it happen, like weighting one side of the coin

    Yes, actually, it is. That's how probability works- regardless of how small the chance, it is still entirely possible.

    Based on the amount of times perks that are not in Tome challenges appear right after major changes to those perks (like with Zanshin, Object, DS, and BT), I think it's a safe assumption there's more human intervention than they're letting on.

    You're seeing patterns where there are none. It's fine, it's what humans do (we look for patterns everywhere) but it's just random chance.

    BHVR has never exactly been forthcoming in the inner workings of their game or even their team; that much is indicated by the sheer amount of things they've said they were doing or thinking about that we magically never heard of again.

    Actually, they have. Because things go through the consultation phases, which is when all they can say is "We're working on this", and are then either developed further (OOO rework) or completely scrapped (Early-game Collapse)

    I'm drawing a conclusion based off a statistical pattern; the Infinite Monkey Theorem doesn't typically apply in the real world because of the insane amount of trials that it would likely take to make such a pattern occur.

    Still creating a pattern where there is none. Random chance doesn't have a pattern, which is what makes it random.

    Speedrunning mod teams used probability to determine that Dream was cheating, and as it turns out in most extraordinary cases, assuming something is up is a more than safe assumption when you've got that large a sample size.

    Except we have proof that the developers have confirmed the Shrine is randomised. People have been digging through the code of DBD- it's how we know it's such a mess- and they haven't raised anything. So, again, the burden of proof falls upon you since you're the one accusing it of not being randomised.

    The Shrine of Secrets is randomised unless one of three criteria are met:

    • Perks are needed for an Archive challenge, at which point they will appear if A) the perk has not yet appeared during this Tome and B) it is the first week of the challenges.
    • There is a game version desync, which occured during the release of Leatherface onto the Nintendo Switch edition.
    • The developers are making a joke, such as the April Fools of 2020 which lasted for 24 hours and contained only Calm Spirit.

    For one, that comment is one paragraph. If I shortened it into two sentence paragraphs it would also lack proper cohesion as the subject matter of each paragraph would remain the same. Hardly an argument.

    Secondly, all months before October 2016 were discounted because Shrine wasn't a thing before then. So 2017 perks aren't as far away as you think they are. They still account for 4 years of data out of a total of just over 4 1/2 years, so the perk pool was still relatively small during their release and as such their average frequency should be somewhat similar. It is not.

    Also, I agree Undying should be discounted; it is far too new to draw a conclusion on it alone because of a now larger perk pool. I just needed 10 meta perks, and to be quite frank, killers have fewer perks that rotate through the meta so not including it would've left my data with a gap. Plus, people would've mentioned it anyway. It was more important that my data included it than not.

    Lastly, you're assuming true random, which anyone worth their salt will tell you does not exist in programming. Every random simulation requires an algorithm created by humans, and therefore is subject to error. RNG can also be exploited, such as how you can guarantee specific patterns of random characters in Melee. There are nearly always things in games that influence RNG factors. In older Pokemon games, so much as specific characters in your name could influence your chances of encountering specific Pokemon. As time has gone on RNG programming has improved, but it is not perfect and there is almost always a predictable pattern in typical implementations once the underlying algorithm is understood.

  • @Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:

    THE SHRINE OF SECRETS IS NOW ALSO A CONSPIRACY AGAINST KILLERS HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO BLIND

    "This game is too easy for [X] even a new [X] player can win against any [Y] player no matter how experienced the [Y] player is. [X] players have all the strongest perks, the devs favour them and they get buffed all the time while [Y] gets nothing but nerfs. And I'm actually a [X] main before you all start."


  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2331388#Comment_2331388

    And so please share, in your infinite wisdom, the sources for your claims that the Shrine isn't randomly selected, preferably complete with the code that makes it so. Because, rather unfortunately, we actually have a source for our claim that isn't "Well most of DBD is buggy". Because unless you've seen the code, how would you know?

    I assume you know the analogy about monkeys on the typewriter? That applies here too. Probability can do what is thought to be near-impossible, because if it isn't actually impossible then it can happen.

    The pattern in my eyes has far too large a sample size to not have even remotely evened out over time. I mean we're talking about more than 4 1/2 years of data. Sure, it's possible to flip a coin 500 times and land heads on all of them, but it isn't feasible to do that without doing something to deliberately make it happen, like weighting one side of the coin. Based on the amount of times perks that are not in Tome challenges appear right after major changes to those perks (like with Zanshin, Object, DS, and BT), I think it's a safe assumption there's more human intervention than they're letting on. BHVR has never exactly been forthcoming in the inner workings of their game or even their team; that much is indicated by the sheer amount of things they've said they were doing or thinking about that we magically never heard of again. I'm drawing a conclusion based off a statistical pattern; the Infinite Monkey Theorem doesn't typically apply in the real world because of the insane amount of trials that it would likely take to make such a pattern occur. Speedrunning mod teams used probability to determine that Dream was cheating, and as it turns out in most extraordinary cases, assuming something is up is a more than safe assumption when you've got that large a sample size. For example, a man has been struck by lightning seven times. You would think that's insanely unlikely until you look deeper and realize that he was a park ranger typically perched in a tall watchtower in an empty field with no lightning rods.

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330589#Comment_2330589

    Bestie please tell me you see the large "DEV" tag next to Peanits' name. Please please tell me that you don't think that someone working for BHVR doesn't have communication with other employees of BHVR??!!

    You just want to ignore any facts to fit your narrative of "BHVR HATES KILLER PLAYERS" when that's literally not the case. Orion has already provided you with the proof so stop being stubborn lmao

    Please it's so sad it's almost funny

    I never said BHVR hates killer players. "And I'm not saying the devs are doing this intentionally" is a pretty big indicator of that. And in my eyes the dev tag on the forums is not an accurate representation of every BHVR employee's job description. To me a developer is someone directly responsible for coding the game. For example, a web developer is not a guy the company pays to communicate ideas to the guy who creates the website; the one coding the actual website is. I would not consider Mathieu Cote as a developer either because that's not in his job description. And I'm not selling them short, either. Someone like Peanits is equally important as the ones modeling, coding, balancing, etc. because their job is to take community feedback and communicate that to the rest of the team so they know what to focus on and fix. That said, since he wasn't responsible for coding the algorithm they use to pseudo-randomly select shrine perks, unless he himself has seen the code and understands how it works he cannot and will not know exactly how it chooses the perks. All he would know is what he was told. And based off the devs' recent history with the awful spaghetti code of DBD, I think it's fair to assume their Shrine algorithm (assuming there is zero human intervention, which I doubt) is equally as flawed as the rest of their game, which is very much so.


  • @Orion said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330579#Comment_2330579

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/562108#Comment_562108

    See my post count? I've been here a lot longer than most regular users. I know what I'm talking about.

    EDIT: In case you want something more recent, see below.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1152541#Comment_1152541

    1: Peanits is a Community Manager, not a Developer. He may well be under the assumption that that is the case, but the underlying system may not reflect that.

    2: It could very well be down to their algorithm being flawed, though the amount of times we've seen a perk being changed then appearing in shrine (regardless of whether it is in Tome, like with Zanshin Tactics) seems to indicate there is a noticeable amount of human intervention.

  • @Orion said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330572#Comment_2330572

    They have, actually, with the exception that 2 perks are guaranteed to be survivor teachables and 2 are guaranteed to be killer teachables.

    EDIT: If memory serves, any perks that are needed for tome challenges are also guaranteed to appear when the challenges are released, but I'm not 100% sure if that's what they said.

    Find me one singular quote from a dev that suggests that each set of teachables (being the 2 for each role) are fully randomized and not at all influenced by developer decision. Even Zanshin Tactics appeared right around the time it got buffed recently. The amount of times that happens seems to indicate the assumption that the devs have at least some influence is correct.

  • @Orion said:

    Probability does not work the way you think it should. The fact that Enduring has appeared 20 times is a statistical abnormality, no different from when you get 5 heads in a row when flipping a coin. It's unlikely (about 3%), but possible. Getting struck by lightning has about a 0.0003% chance of happening, yet around 24000 people are still hit and killed by lightning every year.

    PS: The odds of any one perk appearing actually decrease over time due to the increase in possible perks.

    BHVR has never said Shrine Of Secrets is a random selection. The fact that it is not is very clear given the fact that Object and DS both appeared immediately surrounding their recent reworks.

  • @ThiccBudhha said:

    Wait, Undying has never been in the shrine? I was saving for that one... I don't want to buy Blight.

    I would strongly recommend buying him. I main no recovery GF, but Blight is always a really fun change of pace. I've had tremendous amounts of fun with him.

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