cluxdx
cluxdx
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The problem is in making Ghostface's reveal more consistent they failed to realize it's now incredibly easy to pull him out of his power. If they increased the time to reveal him to 2 or 2.5 seconds it would probably feel much better.
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Wraith's Lightburn is a massively outdated mechanic IMO and should just be removed. Also unnerf his uncloak please.
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"Styptic" gets censored and "Myers" also does for me. Also weird I can say words like shiznit (but not as nice) but I can't say "teabagging"
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@Shroompy said:
People seem to forget that you actually get more ultra rare/very rare add ons in the earlier bloodwebs than level 50 ones
I know this since seeing 2 and some times even 3 ultra rares at around level 30-40 bloodwebs is WAY more common than in level 50's
1-30 usually sucks, and people often like farming Greens in bloodwebs. A large portion of killers' better add-ons are actualty greens, Like Ghostface with Olsen's Wallet. Level 50 bloodwebs are better for farming greens because any individual green item/add-on is actually the least common in the game to get because of how many greens exist. Level 50s have more nodes overall thus have the best chance to get more greens. They also have a relatively guaranteed frequency of Ultra Rares that isn't bound to RNG like the earlier webs.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
Even Otzdarva has said that the new Dead Hard will be stronger in a lot of scenarios, like just pressing E before vaulting or putting down a pallet, guaranteeing a free escape along with a speed boost. That's why we're not seeing survivor mains crying about the Dead Hard nerf because it is actually better in some ways now. It's so hilarious that the devs completely destroyed killer meta perks, but the no.1 most used survivor perk still stays strong. No amount of extra bp rewards is gonna convince people to play killer if this unfairness continues lol.
Not what he said at all. I'm a killer main and for years have wanted Dead Hard nerfed, and quite frankly, this is the exact nerf I wanted it to get. Otz said there are situations in which new DH may be stronger, but he did not say it's stronger overall. IMO I think the only major problem with the perk rebalancing is Off The Record.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3021400#Comment_3021400
Sorry I don't mind watching YouTube videos for entertainment, but I think for myself not what some youtuber/twitch streamer says.
It hasn't been released yet a lot that was said in the notes could still be changed when it goes live. If you're not taking part in the PTB then you'll just have to wait and see what happens. Calm down
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BN0YRWNZXGAZ/image.png
Relax don't forget to breathe very important
You're really going hard on the idea that I'm losing my mind and panicking over this; we've had plenty of OP things in the past like old DS and old Object, and still have plenty of OP things like BNP and Alchemist's Ring. I don't think this one thing is killing the game; the only thing I'm saying is that a new perk design is far too powerful and needs toned down. A PTB will not change my standpoint on this because I know it's literally current BT but stronger, which I fundamentally disagree with because BT is already an S tier perk and nearly every other meta perk is being adjusted down.
Saying something is OP and should be fixed is not raging, panicking or otherwise freaking out; it's just sharing an opinion. Opinions are incredibly valuable to developers. If the community on the whole does not like an idea and wants it changed, it's important they share that. If they didn't, I guarantee you we wouldn't have had an RPD rework for another couple years and Object would never have been touched.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3021100#Comment_3021100
Dude just wait for the PTB all this bickering everyone is doing is tiresome.
If you're able to take part in the PTB test it out and give feedback. The whole point of the buff and nerfs in this update is to push killers away from camping.
If you are this worried about it you're spending to much time by the hooked survivor.
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxzl17mb9LSwznG176hQ_nCma-zSfzj4LS
Here's an explanation from arguably the best killer main in the entire community about how this change affects killers who don't camp and tunnel. I don't need a PTB to see that taking what is already a top 3 perk in the current meta and creating a functional duplicate with a duration nearly 7 times greater than the original is too strong.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016642#Comment_3016642
But again the speed boost the survivor gets after getting hit got a nerf, and they reduced the cooldown for successful basic attack.
Like I said you need to wait till this is release to see what it's like. All you are doing is jumping to conclusions.
That math is actually with the speed boost nerf and cooldown buff. Currently you'd gain even more distance than that.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016731#Comment_3016731
1.8 second cooldown.
Unless you're hooking literally next to the gate you can get the unhooker, only the person off hook is getting the speed boost.
You might want to read the dev update again — the successful basic attack cooldown is 2.7 seconds; the on-hit speed boost is 1.8. Both were reduced 10%, which while nice, won't affect the vast majority of endgame scenarios, and most certainly won't negate the ability for a survivor to be guaranteed to take an extra hit with OTR that they would've never had before.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
I don't think new BT is strong. However, new Out of Record is absolutely busted since it will be a free health state for 80 seconds which is absolutely insane. With BT you can pretty much get the survivor if they are bodyblocking because waiting 15 seconds is manageable but good luck waiting 80 seconds...
Considering you would be able to use use it twice perk survivor every time you get out of hook then that's 8 times you would have to take the hit with no benefit for you, given that they all have OTR. Might as well bring old Mettle of Man back!
I completely respect that standpoint. IMO 15 seconds is too long because of it also extending the new base-kit speed boost on unhook, but I respect your viewpoint completely.
When it comes to OTR I don't see any scenario in which anyone would see it as fair during an endgame situation where someone is guaranteed to be able to take an extra hit that would have never been afforded in the current meta.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016660#Comment_3016660
But you can just get the unhooker? I don't understand the issue here?
The entire thread is about people bodyblocking with BT and now OTR; the idea behind doing that is so that the killer can't just get the unhooker without having to proc the Endurance, meaning the killer gives both survivors distance.
Chain of events is as follows:
-Survivor gets unhooked, possibly after rescuer forces the M1 off a grab cancel (assuming killer is right in front and can even go for the grab)
-Unhooked survivor bodyblocks the killer with BT or OTR so the killer cannot down the rescuer
-Killer is more than likely forced to hit the survivor who has Endurance, both survivors gain distance while killer is stuck in cooldown.
-99'd gate gets opened, both survivors are out
This exact situation already happens to most killers on occasion, and I'm simply making the case that the BT buff makes it more common, and the OTR buff makes it guaranteed to happen when executed properly.
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@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016508#Comment_3016508
What?
WGLF now gives people Endurance when you heal them from Dying after you activate it on top of the faster recovery speed. I'll use that.
Lucky Break can be recharged? I'll use that.
Distortion can be recharged? I'll use that.
Botany Knowledge buffed to 50%? I'll absolutely use that.
Off the Record giving Endurance until you don't want it? Yeah, I'll use that.
Base kit diet BT plus a speed boost means I don't need to worry about people in solo games not having BT and I don't need to feel obligated to have BT for last second saves in front of the killer.
Literally all of the changes you listed for that guy I like. The only ones from the entire dev update I didn't were the 3 I listed in my first post, but some of these replies are acting like I'm all doom-and-gloom "SURVIVOR OP ME NO LIKE PLEASE FIX" lol. I never understood the animosity the two sides have for one another; we both need each other to even have a game to play in the first place. Glad to see a few other players trying to look from both sides.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016581#Comment_3016581
If a bad team made it to endgame wyd? And even if they do make it end game you can still go for the grab or once you hit the OTR unhooker just hit them again after they complete the unhook? Cuz they won't have it anymore? And then you can hook them again? And even assuming everyone has OTR you can just do this until you get a kill? It's not end game DS or anything, 1.8 seconds is a lot less than 5 seconds.
Off The Record applies to the survivor when they themselves get unhooked — I was talking about someone gets unhooked during EGC and because they now have 80s of Endurance they cannot be re-hit. And on my point of "rewarding bad plays" I was talking about people diving the hook normally, not during EGC; those were two separate points I was making.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016561#Comment_3016561
I think you just need to wait and see what happens. You are over reacting
From what I have read with these changes taking a hit with BT is going to be a wrong move.
You're welcome to do the math if you want. Assuming my math is correct a survivor will gain roughly 5 meters on the killer during the on-hit speed boost and the remaining hit cooldown. It takes around 8.5 seconds to make up that distance, in which time the survivors can go an additional 34 meters before a hit. Score a BT bodyblock, and in the very worst case one of your other healthy teammates takes a hit, and there's your escape.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016517#Comment_3016517
try over 2k hours lmao.
That only happens with bad teams better teams will wait so unless you're waiting around for them it's not gonna come up that often, OTR is strong in EGC but the increased recovery is gonna make it not as bad especially if you run STBFL, this thread is a massive overreaction.
I completely disagree. In the endgame any team — bad or good — will have every healthy survivor dive the hook to guarantee the unhook, and almost never are they somehow far enough from a gate that that 10% is really gonna make a big difference. I'd see your point if we made Agitation base-kit because you could just pick a hook that's farther away, but without Agi you simply don't have the luxury of picking any hook on the map.
And even in the case of bad survivors diving hooks, should we really be holding people's hand and rewarding them for bad plays?
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016454#Comment_3016454
Borrowed Time will now extend the duration of the Endurance effect of unhooked Survivors by 6/8/10 seconds and increase the movement speed bonus duration by 10 seconds for any Survivor you unhook. These effects will be cancelled if the unhooked Survivor performs a Conspicuous Action.
I don't know it still sounds like if the BT user wants to body block it not going to work out well from them.
I don't see any where in the BT change they get a speed boost for taking a hit. The speed bonus is to help them get the hell out of the area.
It's the normal on-hit speed boost they're trying to proc by taking the hit with Endurance, same as if you go from healthy to injured. People already force proc BT all the time as it is, and buffing its duration makes that even easier to do.
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@Xendritch said:
Yeah don't agree at all, this only comes up if you're camping in which case lol ######### are you doing still camping with all these killer buffs.
You don't play killer enough and it shows. People dive hooks all the time; I can't tell you how many times I've hooked a survivor and not even made it 5 seconds without seeing a guy running straight for the unhook right in my face. How does this help endgame scenarios where you have multiple survivors diving the hook? New OTR basically makes you unable to hook anyone during EGC so long as the unhooked survivor bodyblocks incessantly.
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@legacycolt said:
Don’t tunnel survivors and you’ll be fine
I gave a specific example in my post as to why I think it punishes killers who don't tunnel. I try to basically never tunnel if I don't absolutely have to, but even with 12s BT I find the freshly unhooked survivor bodyblocking me all the time so I can't even chase the rescuer, forcing me to tunnel. IMO the BT and OTR buff does very little to actually punish killers who tunnel and more just gives it offensive capability it shouldn't even have in the first place.
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@I_am_Negan said:
Next, we’ve reduced the cooldown for successful basic attacks by 10% (now 2.7 seconds, previously 3 seconds) and reduced the duration of the Survivor’s speed boost upon being hit by 10% (now 1.8 seconds, was 2 seconds). Moving forward, Survivors will gain slightly less distance upon being hit, making it more difficult for them to run long distances to a safe area.
Unless I don't understand this, but if the BT user body blocks wouldn't they lose their speed boost to get away.
So in other words if they body block they would be making a dumb play now.
They will still gain the regular hit speed boost; that on-hit speed boost is just being nerfed 10%. It's still enough distance to make a pallet nine times out of ten, so what we're looking at is people bodyblocking the killer in order to force proc the Endurance effect, which makes the killer lose distance on two different people when they weren't even trying to tunnel.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016372#Comment_3016372
no dead ass bt is a really bad crutch perk and if a killer is half competent can counter with no problem I see people with bt die all the time end game.
If you're seeing people going down with BT all the time they're either making the mistake of running straight to a dead zone or bodyblocking way too much. If you get unhooked near a pallet it's a free bodyblock AND pallet drop, and if you don't get unhooked near a pallet you still have 12s to get somewhere that does. 12s at 4m/s equates to 48 meters, which is half the length of even the largest maps in the game. If you can't find a pallet in half the map then you're the problem.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016353#Comment_3016353
I used to use it till I noticed how pointless it was. All you have to do is wait it out easiest perk to counter.
This is bait
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@Tatt3dWon said:
BT was pointless to begin with its not a good perk and off the record isnt op with killer swing time being reduced.
BT has been considered one of the best perks in the game for literal years fam. It's used in every single tournament match and is far and away one of the most used perks in the game because — at least in the current meta — tunneling is basically a requirement if you're not playing Nurse or Blight with good add-ons.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Blight mains when an unintentional bug isn't a "tech"
https://media.tenor.com/images/543a7ca3ee67fc42f98dd5e2a1d384c6/tenor.gif
Again, I posed this question for other killers as well. Oni flicking is an extremely essential tech for any good Oni player, and it was also unintended but left in because it made the game fun. The way 360s work was also an unintended issue but was left in because it made the game fun. More recently, Ghostface's reveal hitbox protruded too far out from his body from the front, which was an unintended bug that was left in for consistency. Many games (even DBD) have a history of incorporating bugs into actual mechanics.
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@BadZilla said:
Blight needs a rework he is only viable for high end dpi switch mouse users they can abuse him in ways he wasn't meant to so you have 0 counter play but the average players and especially console gamers they can't play him.
You are 100 percent unequivocally wrong. I main Blight and use all of his primary techs on low sensitivity at 400DPI. Also, the DPI switch trick was actually an abuse of the old Blight system that allowed for J-Flicks, and they actually reworked his rush camera system to fix that. DPI exploits don't exist anymore.
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@Zozzy said:
Yep.. forcing a survivor to the wrong side of a pallet, only for them to still make it to the next one because of a button press is totally a skill issue.
Dead Hard is just the game gaslighting me to tell me that the survivor in fact, most definitely, without question, did not fall for that mindgame.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2872147#Comment_2872147
The 2 million is referencing unique logins, it has no correlation whatsoever to the average playing at a given time during the day.
Unless you think the same xxx amount of players are playing 24 hours a day???
That isn't math, that's someone who has absolutely no idea what they are even talking about.
That is an incorrect assumption. It's ridiculously simple math; 2 million logins per day averages out to 83k logins per hour. During each hour new people come in and old people leave, thus averaging out to roughly an estimated 83k people playing the game, which is EXACTLY how the steam charts are calculated. When it says 34k on the Steam charts, that means — regardless of peak players and total logins — that across the entire month, an average of 34k people have the game open at any given time. It's not an exact measure and does depend somewhat on how long each session lasts on average, but it's a relatively reasonable estimate to make.
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@gendoss said:
The game is not dying and is around the same amount of players as march of 2021. Nobody in March 2021 said that the game is dying in fact it was a really good month per the time of year. What happened is that a ton of people played last summer for the Resident Evil chapter and then more came in for October cuz it's a horror game and then it dropped back down to what it was last year. This is totally normal and in fact it's good, the game was never dying nor was it in a bad state last year. It's like the 24th most played Steam game right now. Top 24 games of all of Steam is fantastic.
Actually the vast majority of people that left after the RE chapter left last August, which accounts for 18%. The 30% number I'm referring to is completely separate from that figure, and is only since they permanently enabled MMR. The game actually briefly climbed after the RE people left, then immediately dropped after MMR came out.
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@PerfectlyPink said:
That's not how math works. While yes, 2 million players logging in a day doesn't mean thats 2 mil at once, that definitely doesn't mean that only 80 thousand people are playing an hour. If on average 34 thousand people are playing at any given point on steam alone we could pretty safely assume that at the very least the same amount of people are playing on other platforms. That's not likely though, since console makes up for way more of the playerbase, but we don't know exactly how many people are playing on console since those numbers aren't available
So in reality, dbd likely has over 110 thousand people playing across all platforms. This number drastically shoots up at peak times, which is something people like to leave out when they look at the all mighty steam charts. At peak times its probably closer to 200k, at the bear minimum.
Of course the common argument is que times being long which is an understandable argument. Truth is, at peak times, survivors massively outweigh killers in quantity. It's not that the game is dead, its that there is too many people playing survivor. The opposite thing happens during chapter releases, killer ques shoot way up since everyone wants to try the new killer.
As for whether the game needs more work; obviously. Its not perfect and it could be better. However, they game is undoubtedly in the best state it ever has been in and it's more that likely that dbd will continue to improve and survive into the foreseeable future
That IS how math works. The 35k on Steam is an AVERAGE players over the course of time, meaning that there could be anywhere between 20k and 50k people on. In terms of math and stats, peaks do not matter because they don't actually say anything about the number of people playing. If 100k people are on at the same time but only play between 7 and 8 and nobody plays before or after, you have 100k players total. 2 Million logins per day in total averages out to be 83k people. And the 2 million logins is BHVR's own number, so according to their own self-reporting they have roughly 83k people playing the game at a time on average.
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@KateDunson said:
They better have something in store or playerbase will decrease even further and when they will decide to do something about it will be too late
I had fun for years, but sbmm boons subtle cheaters made my game experience impossible to enjoy.
Honestly same here. I'm straying away from weaker killers and fun off-meta builds more and more as time goes on because of the general competitive attitude people have been adopting. I'm seeing at least 3 Dead Hards nearly every game, have multiple map offerings in as short as a 1 hour session, and can seemingly never escape the repeated BNP, Anti-Hemo, and Styptic gamers. With that in mind I'm Alt-F4ing on load quite a bit anymore because I'm just sick of being taken to Eyrie and RPD by every boon squad under the sun, and more often than not I'm playing either Blight or Huntress in the hopes I can endlessly 1v1 people to death.
Can I still have fun? Sure, but I'm having far less fun than I did even in the days of Old Object and Old DS anymore.
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@DoritoHead said:
Dbd is BHVR'S cash cow. If it's dying, they'll do what they need to to improve game health. Dbd isn't going away anytime soon.
I don't know; considering an extremely large portion of the playerbase has expressed a general distaste for the direction the current MMR system is pushing the game and we've been met with nothing but either radio silence or "No guys it's working trust us" I'm not exactly very reassured.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845296#Comment_2845296
What you're really saying is you want a different meta, as everything you described are just efficient outcomes.
If we're going to be competitive, we're
Edit driving and half post was deleted
The comment you're replying to is directly in line with the point I originally made. All I did was add in a couple paragraphs for clarification and modify my subsequent wording to make it fit and/or fix any redundant statements the additional paragraphs created. The end result is it reads better and the intention of my original post is slightly better articulated. Not sure what you're trying to get at.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845273#Comment_2845273
Don't get me wrong. That is absolutely ######### up and MMR needs some serious work.
That ain't my gripe, it's the people who look for meme quotes like the hockey and "was that really a skilled play?"
The mental gymnastics people go through on this forum is out of control.
I'm not really trying to hone in on the quote itself, but more so on the general competitive mindset that attitude pushes. By having a system that only cares about the end result and does not reward people for playing with actual depth beyond that, it detracts from the general gameplay experience. This system relegates killers to tunneling and survivors to selfish escapes, which generally makes the game less fun. Why should I go for 12 hooks if that win is directly equivalent to one with 4 hooks? Why should a survivor run to unhook their teammate with one gen left to go when leaving them to die and finishing the last gen is the objectively optimal way to rank up?
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@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/313750/the-problem-with-mmr-dbd-is-not-hockey
To start with, I love the recent comparisons with hockey because it shows the massive rift in understanding of the game between the devs and the playerbase. DBD is not hockey (roll credits) and I think that should be abundantly clear.
Yes, I agree completely.
The comparison to a sport like hockey implies that DBD is a symmetrical competitive game with clearly defined win conditions, of which it is none
Oh dear... and you started off so well.
LITERALLY NOBODY SAID THIS!!
There!
Not a single dev said DBD is like hockey, because as you said, they're not the same.
What Patrick did say - using hockey as an example - is that you don't need to measure shots on goal as a proxy for skill because the end result (i.e. higher score) is a suitable proxy for shots on goal (you can't get a high score without taking shots on goal).
And in the same way, you can't get kills without killing survivors. And you can't get escapes without evading the killer.
That's it. That's literally the only point being stressed. And you've gotten it amazingly wrong, and then had the arrogance to presume it's the devs who don't know what they're talking about rather than yourself.
Did I say they "said" that? I clearly used the word "implies" in the statement you directly quoted. No matter how you slice it it is still a terrible example to use. And like other people have pointed out it's not even a good analogy in hockey because that only factors in team results. Individual players are still rated based on how many shots they take, for example.
Using the NFL as an example (because it's more in my wheelhouse) we can say that Aaron Rodgers is a very skilled quarterback. Does he win a lot of Super Bowls? No, because the Packers on the whole are not that good. Nobody uses his team results to rate him as a terrible quarterback because that's not a fair rating. A solid example of this is Matthew Stafford. On the Lions his results sucked, yet he was still a very good quarterback with a lot of promise. Now that he's on the Rams (a genuinely good team) he managed to win a Super Bowl. If not for his individual skills taking precedence over his team results, the Rams never would have picked him up in the first place, hence why nuance is important.
That said, with that point you're referencing I was more touching on the fact that even the MMR system itself is based on a 1v1x4, while DBD is a 1v4.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2844971#Comment_2844971
I agree that the game should have been designed from the outset as the survivors being an actual team that win or lose as a group. This whole semi-cooperative thing rarely works.
Unfortunately semi-cooperative “every survivor for themselves but not really” is what we have, and in that setting yes, you lose if you get yourself killed saving the others.
And that's kind of the whole point of my post. The entire point of the system is win/loss no matter how you get there, but should dying be considered a "loss" if the rest of the team made it out alive? Or as killer should two wins under completely different conditions be treated as "equal" in the eyes of the system? I'm not saying a 4 man slug should have to be considered a loss, but more that I should at least be rewarded more for taking on the challenge of 12 hooking and winning, or at least I shouldn't be punished for trying to let everyone have a little fun.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845005#Comment_2845005
I'll grant you that in the case you're talking about, there's an unintended negative consequence that feels like a punishment, but that is not what the system is for. It is not for rewarding good play and punishing bad play, it's for pushing people of an equal-ish win-chance together so the match is relatively balanced. It's currently not doing that, but that's not really relevant- what's relevant is that the system is not designed as an incentive/progression system, and if you want to talk about improving it that is the number one baseline thing you need to understand.
(I'd also like to point out that playing split-pressure and not tunneling doesn't inherently lead to less kills. It leads to less kills because healing speeds need reigning in, and generator speed increases probably should too. That's nothing to do with the MMR.)
Of course you could lose and pip up. You also still lost, because the survivor win condition is to escape. That's... pretty much why the emblem system was completely unfit for purpose and actively worse than what we have now? It was incredibly easy to climb the ranks such that there was a gigantic gulf of skill difference within the supposed highest rank.
But was the survivor win condition really just to escape? The dev team never once defined what the win condition was until MMR became a thing, so for all we knew getting a 3 man out by any means was a win, whether that be by a guy dying to go out of his way to save his friends, or by a key escape. How do we know that when the emblem system was introduced the dev team's vision for win/loss was different?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2844971#Comment_2844971
Let's crack into a few takes here, because there are a couple of misunderstandings on display that I think I can help with.
So, first of all: MMR does not inherently punish anything. It also doesn't inherently reward anything! The only thing it changes is, if after multiple wins/losses in a row, it'll put you in a different pool of players to be matched with. It can feel as though it's punishing you, but only because people put far, far, far more weight into one game than the system does.
Regarding your second point- you lose because you lost? The MMR system has nothing to do with that, the game you're describing was strictly speaking a loss when the emblem system governed matchmaking. Any system they use for matchmaking is going to follow the win/loss conditions that already existed in the game before its inception, they're hardly going to radically alter the way the game works at a fundamental level just for a matchmaker to function.
That being said, there is one thing that you've said that I potentially agree with - if, after the current issues with the MMR system are fixed, it's still not performing where it should, the one potential flaw it currently has is survivors not being accurately rated for team play. That's an area it could maybe do with a little more nuance in if it proves to be necessary- hard to tell right now when an unrelated part of it is broken.
MMR absolutely does punish altruism because altruism inherently leads to more deaths which inherently leads to lower MMR. Same deal with playing split-pressure and not tunneling — it leads to fewer kills which leads to lower MMR. Lower MMR games for genuinely good players are unfun because the games are not interactive. As killer it would mean I 4k with zero effort and have no interesting chases. Over time I would basically just get juggled back and forth between losing to squads that play only to win and stomping 200 hour players that should never be matched with me in the first place.
And are you genuinely going to tell me that it was impossible to die as survivor and still pip up or even safety pip? I used to play mega altruistic when I'd play survivor once in a blue moon and I would rarely pip down even upon dying because my friends and I always liked going for saves and made fun risky plays that got us a lot of points. Along the same vein it was pretty easy to get a 4k entity displeased if you just slugged everyone for 4 minutes.
Escapes were literally only one emblem out of 4; it feels like some people just don't even remotely remember how the old system worked.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2844937#Comment_2844937
I don't see how else they could do it. As they said in the stream itself, they kinda have to have it be based on win/loss because otherwise you might have scenarios where players 'rank up' after losing which doesn't feel intuitive or accurate at all.
Players feeling they need to play a certain way because of the MMR is also on them, not on the MMR system. It's easier to fix the latter than the former so it's not completely irrelevant information, but it's best not to assume that those players are right and justified.
Also, a lot of the current issues would be fixed by tweaking the balance of the game, not the MMR system.
I think that's an incredibly shortsighted take.
A lot of people play a certain way because of MMR because the system inherently punishes them for trying to have fun. If you die because you ran and saved 2 people during EGC resulting in a 3 man out instead of a 2 man out, why do you "lose" when the rest of team only won because of you?
MMR is not needed in DBD because winning and losing are not the sole thing that determines "fun" in the game. That said, if you're going to have an MMR system it needs to take hooks into account as well as unhooks, heals, etc. They could still base the general win/loss idea on kills/escapes, but at the very least give killers bonus points for getting x number of hooks and/or give survivors bonus points for every heal/save, so if you're a team player or don't tunnel your ass off at least when you lose you don't lose as bad.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't think the intent was to use sports as a direct metaphor or target for MMR. It's something that was said on the spot. I don't think any of us are perfectly articulate when we try to improvise in front of audience.
That being said, sports in general account for player performance beyond wins and losses. There's a whole staff on each team dedicated to that regardless of the sport. It's well known that some players put up great stats on terrible teams and some players get carried by the players around them.
Whether or not that's what their target is, that's definitely how the system works. "Cutting out the middle-man" as Patrick put it directly means that, according to the system, how you play does not matter. I can get 24k BP and "lose" because my 9 hook 1k on Badham means I am "not skilled" and I can get 15k BP and "win" because my Iri Head 4 hook 4k on Midwich means I am "skilled"
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@jesterkind said:
I also thought the hockey metaphor was a little flawed, but it's really time to let it go.
What he was getting at with it - that kills are a reliable indicator of skill when taken across a large batch of games - wasn't even that controversial, it seems most people just get hung up on the idea of an individual match's skilful play when they talk about the MMR.
Again, I don't care so much about the metaphor as the general attitude the devs have with the system. And the problem is not that kills/escapes are not a reliable indicator of skill, but that only caring about the end result inherently pushes the game in a much more heavily meta-focused and competitive direction. More players are relegated to having to camp and tunnel to ensure they don't "derank" and start facing nothing but potatoes, which are just unfun in a different way. On top of that, more and more often I'm seeing teams just leaving people to die on first hook because gens, open gate, escape is the only thing on their mind.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2844911#Comment_2844911
So now “slugging” is somehow cheap or unfair, got it.
When did I ever say that? It is a tool, and I do not have some entitled attitude that makes me think that anyone has any inherent right that the other side plays a certain way. That said, I think we should all be able to acknowledge a 4k with 12 hooks is typically more impressive than, say, camping a guy to death then getting a gimmicky victory off NOED/No Way Out.
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@dugman said:
I can’t be the only person who thinks people harping on the hockey thing are overblowing the metaphor, right?
A lot of people joke about it, but the thing is it genuinely does highlight a lack of understanding of how people like to play the game. The comparison they gave was shots —> goals —> wins therefore wins = skill, but that directly implies the game is as simple as do gen, open gate, leave.
My issue is with how the metaphor was used. Skilled plays =/= wins because bleeding survivors out on the ground with no hooks is not skillful, and camping a gate while all your teammates die and the killer looks for the hatch is not skillful. The usage of that metaphor to justify not tracking hooks, unhooks, heals, sabos, chase time, etc. is the issue I'm getting at, and I think it's pretty clear a very large chunk of the playerbase takes issue with it if these forums, content creators and Steam stats are anything to go off of.
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Surge/Jolt is definitely one for sure. Only works on Basic Attacks, has a 40 second cooldown and only works in a small area, all for just 8% regression. To make it good they either have to buff it to at least 15%, remove the cooldown, or make it work when downing someone by any means.
Play With Your Food is another one. I have to go out of my way to find and chase only one guy, can only get one stack per 8 seconds, and I lose the stacks faster than I get them. Personally I'd make it have 4 tokens max at 4% per token, and give 2 tokens at a time instead of 1.
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It depends on the nuances. You know, the nuances that the devs are too lazy to calculate because DBD is just hockey anyway.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2836330#Comment_2836330
But then these perks lost their main purpose. They would be trash.
I think they are fair. You can tell someone probably has this perk when they start running early, etc. Then next time you can play around it.
Also you can scare them with this perk still lol. Even more accualy, because they will think they are 100% safe.
Disagree. Spine Chill still boosts action speed, and in a lot of cases it can just barely give you the speed you need to finish that vault in time and not get hit, or it can give you just enough of a boost to slam that generator in the killer's face. It already has enough utility and currently every stealth killer is bad anyway.
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@Evilius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2836746#Comment_2836746
Oh yeah I don't personally count it as camping when you're being 'kept' there by other survivors, I only count the instances where a killer had plenty time to leave and go look for other survivors or check generators.
The problem there is your post indicates the majority of games someone camps, but in my experience the vast majority of the time someone camps is because someone either gave them a reason to, or the survivors simply just let them get away with it.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Because Boons like Exponential, Shadow Step and Dark Theory would be even weaker.
If you ask me, CoH should be a 'Corrupted Boon'.
If a Corrupted Boon gets snuffed, it will turn into a type of Hex Totem that can't be blessed and must be cleansed, similar to Pentimento, and that will do the opposite of what the Boon did. In
CoH's case, you'd have a 24 Meter Radius in which heals get significantly slowed down
I hate the argument "Because CoH is the only one that's good" because the mechanic itself is horribly executed and if any of those perks get buffed enough to actually reward the bless time they immediately become as OP as CoH. The literal only reason those perks are not OP is because they are a waste of time to set. Because CoH is a net time save it will always be OP until it is nerfed enough to make it a net time waste, in which case it would be bad and nobody would run it.
They need to give all boons limited uses (either by breaking the totem when snuffed or by a token system) and just buff Shadow Step and Exponential to compensate, otherwise every Boon can only be either OP or terrible.
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@Evilius said:
I'd love to see some attempts to justify this thing that has become about 80% of matches against killers.
Okay then, let me give you a parable.
Let's say I chase a survivor and down them. Immediately upon hooking that person I see two survivors in the distance who are running directly at the hook before I even had the chance to leave. Now I know those two survivors are not doing the objective, leaving at most a single person on gens. It takes 120 seconds for someone to die on hook, and if those other survivors keep trying to run around me that means I either guarantee a trade or outright kill a survivor, and they can only complete one gen in that time since there is only one person doing the objective.
Do some killers camp purely out of spite? Sure, but not most. Most of the time when you get camped it's because your teammates dove at the hook and gave the killer no reason to leave.
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Yes, he needed every last buff he got. He was in a decent spot after those buffs, then they hard nerfed him when his kill rates weren't even abnormally high and for seemingly no reason, and now he's again a very bad killer with very little chase potential.
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Yes to an extent, but only in moderation when I'm playing with Mad Grit/Agitation and dodge tons of lobbies until I get a squad that doesn't look like mega-sweats, or when I'm playing Blight (my main) and going for crazy scoot surfs and 180s.
Otherwise it feels like hell, and it's the reason I went from 2 hours per day every day to just a few games per week.
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Don't just trap every pallet/window. Sometimes try trapping where the survivor may path towards at the loop instead; if a survivor sees a trap at a pallet they just leave and go to the next loop, but if the pallet looks free of traps they'll often try to loop there, and can run into your trap around the corner.