anarchy753
anarchy753
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@SteelDragon said:
and scott will still deny the many strategies there are for outplaying spirit, smh
I'm partial to the only method to counter Spirit that can relies solely on your ability as survivor; going to the Spirit player's house and stealing their headphones.
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I'd say Hag. Every time they jump out a window and be a free hit. Every time they run up the stairs, there's another.
There's just so many narrow paths or points where you HAVE to land that make a Hag's life easier.
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@HatCreature said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/841414#Comment_841414
I can't argue with that, I have had many instances where my BT just could not stop someone from getting farmed/tunneled.
Because if you're going to hit someone that's come off the hook over the unhooker, BT is worthless. So they take an extra hit to go down? Who cares, you've already triggered BT which makes them 1 hit and the unhooker is still 2 more.
Nobody ever goes "whoops, I triggered BT, gotta leave them alone now." They know what they're doing and it's not something that will change their mind.
It would be cool if BT gave them a slight overlay like the Enduring effect when it triggered, so the killer can see that BOTH people will take 2 hits, so there's no inherent advantage to tunneling right then and there.
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Prayer Beads and the collision changes needed to happen.
The issue is that most good
Spirit playerspairs of headphones won't be affected by that in the slightest.It does nothing to address that Spirit has multiple tools to pinpoint your exact location while phasing, where survivors are left completely to guess, and then surprisingly the one with all the information often wins out.
It does nothing to address the issue that the only way to play against Spirit and not be a blaring beacon of "HIT ME I'M RIGHT HERE" is a PERK, which should not be mandated based on a broken killer being meta. And to add to that, Stridor still completely overrides Iron Will and removes the one reliable tool against her.
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@AbstractPolygon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/841243#Comment_841243
Literally only the dbd community thinks this and its not even the whole community, you are in the minority of opinion on exclusives yet you still think you're right?
Nope, just that selfish players who like to hoarde exclusive crap are the most vocal ones when it comes to changing them.
Other games also encourage that attitude because most of them profit immensely from expensive exclusives, especially games like CSGO which use Valve's own marketplace so the company can never lose.
BHVR is able to make the change because all of these transactions are separate from the company and the game, so they aren't earning money off people creating a toxic, exploitative marketplace of their own.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'll be honest, I'm surprised by how many Trappers I've been getting... maybe that's a sign
Not really, there's a Trapper challenge, and a challenge that requires a mediocre perk that many would have left locked as a teachable, as soon as they're done he'll go back to his trash can.
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@AbstractPolygon said:
Imagine if CSGO just released the M4 howl and vanilla karambit in a new case, the entire community would not have it and they would have to not go through with it, I really just don't understand how this community sees exclusives so differently to just any game. If League of Legends released all the PAX skins and Rusty blitzcrank to make it fair for new players and give them a chance to use the skins everybody would have none of it. I could just go on and on because this is the only game where the community is fine with it because there is a larger number of new players compared to older players that would have had a chance to get the exclusives. Its just a case of outnumbering and its ridiculous.
Wow, it's amazing how you used different examples of other video games and the point still stands that exclusive cosmetics are dumb, and that removing them is a great change.
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"Use them as status symbols."
Cosmetics should not be status symbols, there's no reason something like this should exist ONLY for the sake of getting joy out of other people missing out. It's cruel, it's unnecessary, and thankfully it's going out the window. ESPECIALLY something like this that was a matter of attending an event in a specific country, that's frankly ridiculous.
"or to show their love for their main character"
Which now, many more people will be able to do in the same way.
The only people who suffer from this change are selfish people who only see value in something because they can lord it over other people not being able to have it. Good riddance.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/840579#Comment_840579
The problem with that is: If you make gen times longer it will be even better to do gens separetly. It would of been better if they incentivise doing gens together, since you have to do gens together to get 8k
If you did gens separately with my suggestion, 3 people would each spend 110 seconds doing 3 gens, 330 seconds of survivor time.
If they did the first one together, it would be (roughly) 110 seconds, then the next would be shorter, then the next would be shorter again, and less overall time would be spent doing gens for each survivor.
With the risk of being cleared off a gen that takes a lot longer to recover from, it would incentivise working together more.
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The question isn't "why were hatch grabs removed?" it's "why is nothing being done about survivors being able to escape through a shut hatch due to ping?"
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/840538#Comment_840538
Do you think that you could change my idea in a way that it would feel fair?
Honestly I don't think slowing down the late game is a good solution. The last gen is a crucial point of the game, and where many games turn to the killer's favour already. It's the easiest to defend, pallets are cleared from large areas, and each successful chase can wipe people out of the game and put you even further in control.
I still believe the issue is the early game where 3 people have almost 0 to do except knock out 60% of the objective almost instantly.
I'd like to see gens take longer, like 110 seconds, but then for each one completed, that value drops by 10 seconds, so the 4th gen is what we have now, and the 5th is a little faster, but it takes significantly longer to pop a gen at the start of the match when just spamming pallets guarantees 3.
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I've earnt everything exclusive since I started playing.
I'm more than happy that everyone is getting them now.
At the time it was cool to get them, and I still use a few of them whenever I play those characters, but other people having them isn't going to change the fact that I worked for them and that there's some meaning for them to me.
I hate exclusives, because most of the time the only value people see in them is the joy of making someone else feel like #########. "Oh, you have a nice Huntress mask, where can I get one?" "LOL ######### YOU, you can't cos you didn't play a poorly advertised game at a specific time!"
Long story short, for me, it doesn't detract from the value of what I earnt, it just means more people are able to use cosmetics that they like.
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That's not a good idea.
Noed gets a lot of flack for "rewarding failure" when in reality it just punishes rushing the objective without considering, at the very least, totems.
This is 100% rewarding failure. You haven't killed anyone with 4 gens down so someone is GUARANTEED to die. That's like saying if 0 gens are done the last survivor can't be downed and the hatch can't be shut.
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This is possibly the most reasonable nerf in a long time. If anything, she got undernerfed as there's still no real counterplay to a pair of headphones while you have to simply guess.
It's my opinion she may receive more nerfing in the future, but at the moment they don't want to Legion her by nerfing every possible aspect at once, then question why the killer has become crap.
The only thing GOOD Spirits really lost was Prayer Beads, and the ease of never having to decide which stat to buff because Yakuyoke did everything.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/834115#Comment_834115
Canadian killer = oh excuse me survivors am I in your way? Oh pardon me, just going to open this gate for you eh! Four man escape nice, good job survivors.
I mean that's pretty accurate with the current state of Feral Frenzy.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
Rank reset is always interesting. You never know what you're going to get.
-Swf groups that have the gens done in 5 minutes flat with ruin still up.
-Potatoes so bad you couldn't lose the game if you tried.
-Dcers.
-Tunnel/Camping killers.
-People who meme too much
-People who meme just right
Everygames is different and I love it. When ranks settle the people you play with or against tend to be really similar.
And you always get the wrong one.
When I play Trapper for the challenge, it's a symphony of trap disarm noises across the map. All of the Object of Obsession users come out from the rocks they live under.
When I play survivor it's like somebody offered to pay the survivor who steps in the most traps a million dollars.
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@Jacoby2041 said:
I don't really have any preference for who it is as long as they have 2 super situational perks and 1 totally busted perk that eventually gets nerfed to the 9th layer of hell
You missed "perk which bandaids a major issue in the game so that said issue does not have to be addressed in a substantial way."
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Because pallets are SUPPOSED to be the area of safety for the survivors. The only items that provide any safety in a chase are pallets and windows.
Nurse is the worst offender because there's no value in a pallet. You drop it or you don't either way she can blink and hit you, all dropping it does is slow you down. Worst is that even if you time your drop excellently and stun her mid blink, she just ignores that completely and gets a free hit.
Spirit presents a similar issue, because unlike every other killer you can't use any information to decide what the right move is once a pallet is down. Any time that should be bought is gone because the only correct answer is always drop it and run straight away. It's a huge boost in chases for a killer that is already highly mobile and strong in chases to never NEED to break most pallets.
Huntress is much more easily adapted to, as she is slow moving and has no way to get closer in a chase except running, so dropping a pallet earlier still allows you to break line of sight and use the pallet as a point of strength.
People have this massive hardon for saying "JuSt AdApT." If you went against ANY killer, even without their powers, and pallets just didn't exist, the game would be insanely difficult. It isn't as simple as "just playing better," Spirit's power especially forces you to run in areas where there is nothing of safety because you're at a pallet and she MIGHT be phasing, you have nowhere to go but away. You can pull all of the BS you want about backtracking or walking or whatever, but it's impossible to play all game without moving grass. Perks allow her to hear you breathe incredibly easily, laughably so when injured, and worst, collision means no matter how well you play she can bump into you at any time for a free hit. You CAN mindgame and outplay someone who hasn't played her much or isn't very good at the game, you cannot reasonably outplay someone who knows how to use the ample information they're handed on a platter.
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@kate_best_girl said:
You're really mad we're getting more asian culture just because its asian- literally almost no horror game empathizes on asian themes so its somethin new
No issues with Asian.
Could be Chinese, Mongolian, give me a murderous Hindu goddess. The point is there's so many countries, and we get the same Japanese noise that EVERY OTHER GAME shoves in.
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My favourite one so far is "get 200,000 bloodpoints."
Well, I started at 0 and I'm nearing 600k bloodpoints now, and it's on 150,000.
Fun.
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He says; "I haven't left my mother's basement for months, but soon I shall. I must go to Japan, my home country despite being born a different nationality."
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@Nazeef13 said:
Even though I have issues with the quality and design of some of the survivor challenges (e.g. throw down pallets, deplete medkits) that can promote throwing or anti-skill gameplay, it is proper for the survivor challenges to take more time.
Not sure if you noticed during the 1st tome, which imo was balanced for challenges, the que times for survivor were extremely short but killer was just too long. This is because they have the same number of challenges for killer and survivor. But you only need 1 killer for every 4 survivors.
I know not everyone does the challenges, but if assume players do, the tome 1 challenges would result in 1:1 ratio of killer and survivors in que, when ideally you need 1:4.
The other way to achieve a proper ratio without making the survivor challenges take more time would be to increase the total number of survivor challenges. However this is unfair to killer mains, as they will get less progress for the rift, which ultimately leads to less killer mains buying it.
As a survivor main, I will miss the short que times and short challenges if tome 1, but these longer challenges (aside from design) are better for que times.
That might be true, but as a primarily killer player it really sucks that this fortnight's challenges are an hour or two of killer and 50 survivor matches.
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@Sickerton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/833189#Comment_833189
Got curious and checked the wiki, it's 10 to be exact.
Demo is an alien, Legion is Canadian (Counting as either 1 or four entries in this list, depending on how you look at it) Plague is Babylonian, Spirit is Japanese, Huntress is Russian, and both Hag and Wraith are native African. Wraith moved to America for a bit before he was taken, but apparently he still considered himself more culturally African at the time, since his designation is distinctly different from Doctor's African American.
Of particular note is that every licensed killer besides Demo is American; If narrowed down to characters DBD can decide the nationality of it's 7-10 non-American (The specific number here depends on how much you think Legion counts and whether category Original-Character-Bloastface counts as licensed) and 5-6 American (With Ghostface once more being a variable)
Hag's African American I'm pretty sure. The imagery of Paddlesteamers in the swamp is much closer to Louisiana where they were popular. Her name is also "Lisa Sherwood" which isn't a particularly common African name, if I'd wager a guess.
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Huntress is Russian, Plague is Babylonian, Wraith is African, Doctor is at least based loosely in Chinese lore. So even including some of the biggest licensed horror icons in the world, that only leaves you with 12 at most.
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@HatCreature said:
I'm kind of half/half
On one sides my interest in the Japanese culture is being fed AND as a writer I am excited to see story progression and call backs to earlier entries.
On the other side I am kind of disappointed that we aren't getting something new, it is new but also not. I was hoping for the Alchemist and to continue his story.
The Alchemist would be great, I'm half expecting him to release around September/October next year though because his lore has been explored twice now at Halloween.
It's gonna be another Christmastime release so I'm always hoping for something like a Krampus.
I get that there are people who like this stuff, but they got their killer in Spirit. As someone who has no obsession with that stuff this just comes off as more of the same. Hell, he's even already stolen a really similar weapon.
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It's amazing how many people don't know about a dumb interaction that makes no sense at all!
It's like Saw is all about people TRAPPED inside games, not free to leave with their gruesome machines still on.
It's like this was the laziest possible answer to the conflict between RBTs and EGC and a huge nerf Pig didn't need.
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I keep getting it as Pig, pretty sure it's cos of dedicated servers.
I use the dash, they turn even slightly and it just ends prematurely. It's like it ends because on my end I hit them and then it corrects and goes "oh wait no, that missed" which is really dumb because if they do dodge against her ambush it's easy to correct while still holding M1.
I don't let go, I still CAN hit them, but it's just cancelling the attack as a miss.
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Completely rework moris and keys.
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@LegionMain343 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/828287#Comment_828287
Im gonna boop your snoot 3: ?
I don't take kindly to the boop cultists.
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I like having unlockable cosmetics from actual in-game merits, but holy crap do I not want to play Leatherface another 100 games to collect faces.
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This Tome (which is a book) is about Claudette and Trapper, as well as the realms at large.
Each of the lore sections we are getting now are like chapters, Claudette's history, Trapper's history, what's going on with the Alchemist cos he comes with halloween, and the Entity. Each of those chapters have pages to collect from challenges in all 4 levels of the archives.
Next mid chapter patch will bring a whole new book with a new focus, like Meg and Hillbilly or Dwight and the Wraith.
Spirit's Tome is likely to be a long way off, as she is a DLC character, so it's easier initially for them to go for free characters that everyone has access to.
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@HeroLives said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/976/OXDJSASJMD4B.jpeg
Just going to leave this here.
Oi, go away, nobody is allowed to say Nurse is fine, you're only allowed to say "HOW DARE YOU TOUCH THE BASE KIT!!1!"
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I'm going to be honest here, none of this has anything to do with Nurse.
Back in the day I was in red ranks when I decided it was time to learn Nurse. I didn't have much of a choice with the amount I was playing then so it was play red ranks, or play green ranks with all the red ranks who just rank reset at the same time.
She was a ######### to play then too, not knowing her.
Learning ANY new killer in the red ranks is a rough experience, let alone one whose chase mechanics are like learning the game anew from the ground up.
Nerf or not, you wouldn't be having a fun time in the red ranks trying Nurse for the first time. (And to be honest, stacking on add ons to reduce the downsides never goes as well as just improving what's good already.)
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I think people want 1v1 too aggressively.
They want a situation where if they are a good survivor player, they should be able to single-handedly keep a killer occupied all game and be a hero.
The biggest issue with that is obvious, you can't balance the game around 4 people who ALL have the ability to waste a whole game's worth of time and expect the killer to still feel like they have a reasonable chance. It's why chases are getting shorter, pallets are getting less safe; in order for the game to work, you HAVE to go down.
In terms of Spirit I don't think she's balanced. It isn't to do with 1v1 or 1v4, she isn't an interactive killer. She gets information, while survivors guess and hope, and 9 times out of 10 getting information wins out. The only legitimate "counters" to her have to be pre-equipped before going into a match which sets a per-killer meta that people just don't want to build towards. While you do have to go down in a chase for balance, Spirit tends to make that "you go down in a chase 1 power use from the time you're injured."
It doesn't really matter if a hyper efficient squad all with toolboxes can scrape a win occasionally, that isn't 'balance,' that's an idealised scenario that just doesn't happen in pubs very often, and even then it isn't a guarantee.
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For less than a week.
Seven months ago.
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825118#Comment_825118
Giving my personal feedback:
I dont think I'll buy the next BP.
I just reached lvl 23 and was looking forward to get the head piece for the Huntress skin "Miss Kitty" so I could buy the full outfit at a lower price.
Got super dissapointed when I got the cosmetic and relized it was just a random reskin.
Also, charms are pointless especially for killers,Imo.
It's a reskin of the head piece, you can still now buy the rest of the outfit as individual pieces which still cuts a large chunk off the overall price.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/828495#Comment_828495
Most matches in red ranks might be 10 minutes. A lot of games on PS4 in purple are 20+ minutes assuming the killer doesn't camp and tunnel people out of the game. Also what daily experience bonus? I may get 1-2 levels a day without a tome and that's playing several games.
On the weekends while the kids are out of school the game quality is so terrible that I only got 1 level playing like 10 games of survivor. Perhaps I'll do like some others and just grind out 5 minutes killer games by letting everyone do gens and escaping.
There is 300 XP for your first match as killer, and 300 for your first match as survivor, per day.
Playing a match of either cuts 10 minutes of in-match time off each day.
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@lynelmane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827522#Comment_827522
how do you know I was lying? It's rude to assume that.
It really did happen and I wish I had saved a screenshot of my emblems to prove to you so you would stop assuming that everyone is lying to you.
3 gens, 1 solo, 2 coop. That equals, on average, 200 points to the objective emblem. That is a gold emblem.
In Benevolent, you start with 35 points. Assuming the one person who died did so on their last hook, that means you gain 20 points for your 2 heals.You gain 20 points per unhook if you didn't farm your allies, which from the statement below, it seems you did, so let's assume you got 55 total Benevolent. That's silver. If even one of your unhooks was safe, that bumps it up to gold, if two were, iridescent.
If you escaped, your Survival emblem should be gold, if not iridescent for not being downed.
Your Evader emblem should be 'no emblem' as even with unhooking in the killer's face and stunning them once, you probably wouldn't break the 230 points required to reach bronze.
That, based on what you said, puts you at 8 emblem points in the absolute worst case scenario.
Only in ranks 1-4 can 8 emblem points derank you (rightfully so) and 9 is a safety. If what you said is true, then you did literally nothing else of value in the match and EVERY unhook you did caused the other player to go down instantly, so really, no issues with that being a depip.
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I did the maths on the same calculation and think your estimations of some values are incredibly far off.
@anarchy753 said:
Preface
OK, this is just as best as I can work it out fairly.
First, the amount of fragments required is 700. 70 tiers at 10 fragments apiece.
Challenge fragments (A realistic view)
First we must deduct the challenge rewards.
Tier 1 awards 93 shards. (83 for challenges, 10 for completion.)
The leaked Tier 4 awards 85 shards. (75 for challenges, 10 for completion)
Let's be really generous and say that tier 2 and 3 are equal to 1, which is more challenges but less master, and call them 83 shards too.
So for our player who lives in the real world, there are 9 tier 4 challenges that look reasonably possible. (As in they may take a few attempts, but are not a 0.0001% situation that will almost certainly not occur in a 4 week period.) Let's be generous and say you did all of those ones, and in this case we're ignoring where "impossible" challenges prevent access to possible ones.
That gives us 83+83+83+45=294 shards.
That leaves 406 shards to earn through XP alone.
Player XP fragments
Each fragment takes 800 experience.
At 406 fragments, that's 324,800 XP to finish levelling up your rift.
Each match awards 1 XP per second spent in the game. I can't find anywhere on the wiki which confirms if there is an actual cap, though for the sake of the maths let's say there isn't. (Most people report around 600 XP for a ~10 min match so at the very least, an average match doesn't hit a cap.)
There is also 600 XP for the first game bonus if you play one match of both sides. As the pass runs for 70 days, let's say you play both sides each day to earn that, that's 70x600=42,000XP.
Which leaves us with actual game time; 324,800-42,000=282,800XP
282,800 seconds in matches = 4713 minutes = 78.5 hours.
Conclusion
The devs say the rift was aimed at a player who plays 70-80 hours, or one hour per day.
If a player completes every challenge that isn't ridiculously impossible, AND they get the XP bonus from both sides every single day, it takes 78.5 hours of in-match time to max out the rift.
That translates to significantly longer if we're a rational human being who knows queue times don't work like that.
Even if we assume long 10 minute games every single time with a 3 minute queue, which is far from an overestimation, that's bumping the number up to 102.05 hours already.
TLDR:
If we're lenient on every possible factor that could go in your favour, the rift takes 78.5 hours of in-match time. With a reasonable, but still generous, estimation of queue times included, it takes 102.05 hours of in-game time to complete the rift.
I don't know why you'd assume that tier 2 and 3 give MORE fragments than 1 when even 4 does not.
You also neglect the daily bonus experience which can amount to a large number of levels.
Most matches are also only around 10 minutes long. Assuming that each match takes 25-30 minutes from clicking "ready" to find a lobby until being able to do so again is a vast overstatement.
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For reference, I am rank 19 on the rift, and next rank is a survivor only recolour of the same ######### leaf icon again:
Killer:
https://i.imgur.com/hLD7kQn.jpgSurvivor:
https://i.imgur.com/8fRPcVW.jpg -
This is A set of swords, but the one in the clip has different art on the walls, and is on a tall wooden mount. These ones in the game are on a smaller, wider mount with carved detail on it.
To say these are certainly the same image is just false.
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There are definitely several maps that need the Black Swamp treatment. Take the features, condense them down to a smaller size, cut off the MASSIVE areas of bland wasted space.
They wonder why there's such a disconnect between mobile killers and M1 killers, and then they continue to make maps that Billy and Spirit can shoot across in a matter of seconds, while M1 killer have to walk for seemingly minutes between gens.
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And just like Nurse, nobody is falling for this.
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@Shraar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/828293#Comment_828293
If that's true, that's hilariously bad writing. i'm willing to throw everything i know away if the devs are that stupid.
"Hey, we have a character fueled by hatred and vengeance... btw, she never gets her revenge"
makes almost as much sense a killer fueled by his hatred for killing (wraith) so what am i saying
Wraith in my eyes basically snapped when he found out he had been killing people and was broken enough to be weak to the Entity's will.
Spirit is different because she never did anything wrong, she's doesn't hate herself, the only motivation she has is hatred of her father. If she were allowed to kill her father what point would there be to go on?
I think you assume that the deal was concrete like "I give you power, you kill your father OOPS that made you a killer in my realm for eternity." I see it more as "Kill for me and I will give you the power to kill your father eventually, but she basically gets stuck as a killer forever, still fuelled by that hatred.
Look at the alchemist's lore, he stops being rational, he's willing to kill for what drives him, the Entity keeps twisting his mind. There's no hint of an escape for someone who has already been damaged enough to become a killer.
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@Shraar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/828160#Comment_828160
I'm astounded lol. "The fact that she was promised vengeance doesn't mean vengeance was ever enacted" ...I mean, do I have to explain what a promise means to you? how about an oath?
She is motivated by her desire for vengeance. She made an oath with the Entity to become a Killer in its trials in exchange for a promise of "blood and vengeance". If her dad becomes a Killer, her vengeance will be denied, because she will be unable to hurt him unless they introduce a Killer Vs. Killer mode.
Here are some helpful defintions for you if you still don't see where the issue arrises:
Vengeance: punishment inflicted or retribution exacted for an injury or wrong.
Promise: a declaration or assurance that one will do a particular thing or that a particular thing will happen.
I'm pretty sure the devs have stated in streams that she was never able to kill her father.
Basically the Entity baited and manipulated her with the promise of the power to take revenge, and has been stringing her along with it to keep her as a killer.
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I just wish they'd add killers from OTHER nationality's folklore, rather than ride the weebtrain to cashtown.
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@SilentSpectre said:
I haven't noticed that they're separated, are they really?
Most of them are, yes. Anything depicting survivors or their perks are survivor-only. Anything with Trapper is killer-only. The only universal ones so far are like the flower, a macmillan estate icon, and the rift completion ones.
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@Volfawott said:
Honestly it's a very touchy subject as I feel like it basically screws over any chance that the killer has to reclaim a victory.
Which you'll be surprised can be done in endgame or with only one generator left.
However the survivors did have to get to a certain point to achieve it.
Then again it's not like generators are exactly difficult to do it's just that they're tedious.
If you want a general answer to your question which was if I consider them fair or not. The answer would be no
They didn't really do a lot to earn it though. I had a game the other day with the oh so fun Plunderer's BS of "there's just a key in the game now and there's nothing you can do about it."
I was in a great position with 3 defendable gens left and everyone was dead on hook until I spotted the dude with the key. I knew they were SWF, I knew it was a Pluderer's key so unlikely to be kept on death.
So suddenly I have 2 options: Kill anyone that doesn't have the key. 3 people group up and go out the hatch in a period of 5 seconds, or, kill the person with the key. The second I go to kick the gen they're working on SWF #2 picks up the key and 3 people group up an go out the hatch in a period of 5 seconds.
I can't find and sit on the hatch while they finish the gen and walk out. I'm in a literal checkmate where my absolute best case scenario is a 1K just because someone ran a perk, and getting 4 gens is far from a commendable feat against M1 killers.
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Moris and keys are both completely unfair in exactly the same way.
They both reward you with a "win" for only doing half the work.
They both deny the other team a tremendous amount of bloodpoints for essentially just playing normally.
They are both essentially uncounterable. A key will never be hit by Franklin's so many times it will be destroyed. A dead person with a key can still tell their allies to grab it and escape, even an observant survivor not in SWF can keep track of who had one in the lobby. Most importantly, Plunderer's can produce one with relative consistency which cannot be 'countered' by Franklin's once already in a match.
It is my hope that BHVR will nerf both of them, side-by-side in a similar manner, and soon.