_VTK_
_VTK_
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@Raptorrotas said:
While it does seem like a good fix for the cwf gap, I think a chat wheel would be preferable to HUD/UI additions.
Automatic instant information is way stronger than comms. With comms you still have to contemplate, intend or request information and wait for the others to do the same and respond. ( pretty sure i dont get my point formulated here, as im not surr how to say it correctly)
The chat wheel on the other hand is only doing the same thing as comms, albeit slightly weaker, maybe?
Well, thats just my opinion. The killer buffs would be needed regardless of the option choosen here, as it buffs the base sirvivor kit.
Many people will not like this solution, it would change the game too much. Many survivors appreciate the thrill and the atmosphere of the game. I think DEVs will never add it for that reason, otherwise it would cause an uproar. Also the chatwheel solution raises many issues - how to deal with spam, what phrases to add etc. You have to become active in order for it to work, many people will just refuse to use it, so it can be useless very often. In many situations you can't use it, because you are busy with something else (being chased, repairing, healing etc).
In some situations a chatwheel can be superior to new HUD states, because it is faster and more direct, but if you think of it, new suggested HUD states give so much new indirect information for almost every game situation and decision, you can profit much more from it and it fits the game naturally.
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Suuure. Let's fix all game balance issues with perks, we have unlimited perk slots, right? In DBD perks are not supposed to be run just for fun. I want an FPS boost perk. When I run it, I get +20 fps, so I don't have to play on low gfx to get smooth skillchecks.
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@Crowman said:
A killer camping the hook is applying no pressure to the gens. Just do gens and punish the killer yourself.
That doesn't work well, especially in solo, if you don't know if someone is already going for the save, so everyone rushes for the save. You need some time to make sure that the killer is not going away, even if you return to the gen you've been repairing, the hooked survivor will be dead before you can finish the whole gen, so camping is still very effective for the killer.
Wasting a perk slot for Kindred, just to be a little closer to SWF performance isn't always a good idea, so some game mechanic is needed.
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"Distraction" points for the hooked survivor sounds good actually. And make both struggling phases a little longer.
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I hate all indoor maps with all my heart. I hope DEVs will never make an indoor map again.
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Something must be done, to bring solo closer to SWF, but I'm against the chatwheel, it would break the game atmosphere for me.
Instead I suggested more information on the HUD long ago. It's not the same as chatwheel, but we need an indicator whenever any survivor is being chased, not only the obsession. Much more can be added, like when someone hears the heartbeat. A progressbar (similar to the deep would progress bar) for an action that a survivor is currently doing (repairing a gen, healing another survivor etc).
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I agree that the biggest issue with Wraith is that he is too slow while cloaked. DEVs should make his movement faster while clocked. That's actually all I need when I play as Wraith.
Completely invisible from a certain distance - yes, this would also be a good change to Wraith.
I would also rework some of his add-on, some of them seem to be useless to me. Like "The beast" which makes his terror radius no longer suppressed. Does anyone use it at all? Or "The Serpent", personally I didn't find a good use for it.
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@Dira970 said:
i think first stage on the hook should be longer by 20sec. that can prevent campers from camping.
That would be at least a little improvement.
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I have no problems with matchmaking (PC, Europe), but 7 out of 10 solo games I play end up in 4k. Pretty frustrating. A lot of DCs too.
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Unfortunately DEVs don't care much about Solo and try to fix solo problems with perks like Kindred. So, as a solo player you have to waste perk slots, just to come a little bit closer to SWF, which is ridiculous.
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Wraith should definitely be faster when he is cloaked.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756468#Comment_1756468
Is it really that helpful? Whenever I use it it doesn't seem to make an impact.
Also I like the idea
Yes, whenever I use it, I feel no difference and I don't see anyone use it for that reason. I would rather see it make scratchmarks less dense and spread them more instead. That would be really helpful.
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The problem with the current hook system is that unhooking gives a lot of points, more than you can get during the same time repairing gens, so all survivors usually swarm the hook, it gets worse if you play solo and you don't know if anyone else is going for a save already. And if no one comes soon enough, the hooked survivor gets pissed off, attempts to escape, goes to the second hook stage and suicides.
Just stopping the timer is not an option. What if you play against a stealth killer, if the timer stops running, it will alert you, that the killer is lurking nearby.
As I suggested in another thread, first of all I would remove suicide on hook.
A simple overall fix could be to make both hook stages longer, so that if you decide to camp as a killer, it's up to you, but you should expect that other survivors can do enough gens while you camp. Camping shouldn't pay off for the killer point-wise, right now it usually does. Camping should be an option if you really want some survivor to die, for example because you feel pissed as a killer because you were t-bagged, but in return you should expact, that most likely you will lose the match.
I would also slightly increase points gain for repairing generator, I think it's needed, but not too much, to make sure survivors still come for a save.
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I agree somewhat, instantly opening the hatch when 3 survivors can t-bag you and escape in front of you is not a good idea.
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DEVs don't care about stealth. To counter Doc you can take 3 stealth perks (I don't remember them all, Calm Spirit, anti aura perk etc), but some of his anti-stealth abilities can't be countered at all with perks. Same applies to Legion's power.
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@eiredrake said:
I dunno seems to me if you're not having fun playing in a particular round you should have a way to get out. Hookicide does that just as disconning does and getting dead on the hook does cause things like loss of pips and points so if they're going to jump out of the pool in either case they're still being penalized for it.
If you leave, you punish other survivors, you shouldn't be able to just leave. If you still want to leave, you hit the leave button and eat the consequences.
@TragicSolitude said:
Late in the game it can absolutely have strategic value to give the final survivor a chance at the hatch. Or if it's the EGC a survivor might suicide so their teammates don't risk their lives trying to save them.
Yes, hatch is the only strategic value I could think of too, but it's just not worth it in my opinion. First of all, if the killer knows where the hatch is, sacrificial animation takes too long and in most cases the killer makes it to the hatch before the remaining survivor can use it. If the killer doesn't know where the hatch is, it doesn't matter, you either go for save or wait.
Concerning EGC, this is a very minor issue, I'd rather try to save that survivor and die than play games, where survivor suicide trying to derank or because they are bored and ruin games for me and other survivors.
If you play SWF, suicide on hook is probably not a bug issue, but if most of your games are solo, it becomes very annoying and needs to be fixed somehow.
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One way to rework the hook suicide: if a survivor doesn't struggle in the second hook state, the entity spikes hit as usual and keeps its spikes in the survivor, but the survivor doesn't die. When saved, "deep wound" or "broken" status effect gets applied to him, so he has to spend more time to get back to the healed status. Or he can even start in the dying state after being saved, which I personally think is too extreme, but still possible.
Coding time: minimal. Positive impact on game balance: huge.
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I completely agree that perk tiers are not necessary at all.
It also means less development time for new chapters: less time is needed to come up with perk effects for different tiers, less descriptions to write, less translations etc. Tier 1 and 2 have such a little effect on the game, they are not needed.
At least remove Tier 1 and leave only Tier 2 and 3 (they will be called Tier 1 and 2 of course) and see how it works.
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Fixated. When I'm into repairing gens and playing stealthy. As soon as I hear the heartbeat, I walk away as far as I can, hiding behind obstacles, the killer can't predict that I'm that far away already and wastes his time searching me near the gen. I can repeat it with the same gen 4-5 times, making the Killer go nuts.
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I remember the first game against Nurse, when she was just released. Solo game, everyone was so scared and hugged the walls for around 5 minutes, doing nothing, while she was screaming in the fog.
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@Xpljesus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/205845/again-a-chapter-without-new-map
Can't say I agree most people are disappointed. The best maps in the game are the original realms and I honestly think the game would be better if nearly every map since then was just deleted, especially indoor. I remember having the opinion after the map changes and Slinger they should not release a new map and instead work on fixing the old ones. They went on to release the worst one they've put out yet.
Can't agree more. The only realms I enjoy are the original ones. And I hate all indoor maps with all my heart.
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Tunneling and camping are fundamental flaws in the game design. They are effective, so it's obvious that killers rely on it.
Gen rushing is caused by the fact that in the beginning there are more survivors, more healthy survivors, less hooked survivors, so it's obvious, that in the beginning gens pop fast. Gen progress slows down drastically with game progress, there are less survivors, less gens to patrol. As long as killers get 2k on average, gen rush isn't a problem.
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This change was unnecessary. The new sounds are annoying, I was the old ones back. I don't mind making the old sounds louder for the killer, if necessary, just remove the new terrible sounds.
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I want the old basic generator sound back, that was before that gen GFX update. New sounds are definitely a step back for the game. Unneeded and annoying.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
I was a fan of the simple gen sounds from before. The clunks atop the rumbles was fine; there was no reason to change unless you were bored and had nothing better to update in the game (and there are many other things that are better deserving of sound updates/changes because the Hillbilly's chainsaw sounds rn suck).
I liked the old sounds too, before they added any additional sounds to it. I'm ok with making the old sounds louder if needed, but I think it is totally unnecessary to add new ones, it makes the game worse and more annoying.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/discussion/comment/1624422#Comment_1624422
The developers love changing things that don't need to be changed and end up making the game worse in one aspect or another. The community has to push a brick boulder up a hill to get the developers to even think of changing anything else.
But then, ofc there's money, which speaks louder than a thousand posts.
Absolutely agree. There was no need whatsoever to change the gen sound. Why change something that works? You can only make it worse. I hope they listen to us and remove the new sounds, they are annoying as hell.
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I passionately hate all indoor maps and use map offerings just to avoid them.
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Can you explain the basics of the information flow from a certain client to other clients and synchronization process on dedicated servers?
For example when a survivor suddenly changes sprinting direction during a chase or when the killer hits a survivor, what information gets sent, where it is sent to, how it gets synchronized across all players and how latency affects it.
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Some people have life and friends, they are more positive and social, they play survivor. Others are more anti-social, they are always unhappy with everything, have less friends, they usually main killer.
Many killer mains are always unsatisfied with everything, they only notice negative things: like if both survivors and killers get nerfed, they only notice the latter, but they are not able to realize that, that's why they camp this forum and complain, complain, complain.
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Killer: BBQ (aura reading) - it's a cheap perk that allows Killers to skip tracking for survivors and enter chase immediately
Survivor: any second-chance perk
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I agree somewhat, the Doc is still very annoying.
Yes, I like the fact, that his ability is not passive anymore, but it's way way too easy to reveal survivor locations, the Doc shouldn't be able to spam the blasts so often.
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It's true, DEVs love only survivors and hate all killer-mains with all their heart. You want to know why? Because you complain, whine, moan, demand and create too much negativity in this community. Just reading all the thread titles in this forum on the first page is already annoying. 80% of them are killer complains.
Yes, I exaggerate ... a little bit, but seriously, stop with your conspiration theories already, it's getting annoying.
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Half of the maps I get after update are Lery, Gideon and Hawkins. Those indoor maps are getting annoying.
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OP, that's what I'm asking myself too. Solo survivors rarely escape and stats prove that, but if you read all the Killer complaints on this forums, it seems that killers are usually getting 0k, which is of course not the case.
As someone already said, I think it's mainly perception. Killer mains are more egocentric, the role of a killer acts as a filter. More egocentric people, with lower social skills play killer and they would complain if they were getting 4k almost every game.
Another reason is, the killers that come here and complain and moan are mostly bad, as simple as that. They are the minority, but they are very loud, like little babies.
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Actually that sounds interesting. A cooldown would slightly limit both, the high mobility and one-shot ability. No more chainsaw spamming, you'd have to put some strategy into using Billy's chainsaw.
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@asergioam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006593#Comment_1006593
I don't think you fully understood what is being discussed here in terms of statistical data and that is confirmed by your last phrase because that's exactly what we are discussing here. The topic is about balancing the game and you can't balance a game based on statistical data provided by unbalanced matches. And thye kill rate is one of the most important data provided by statistics to help balancing the game (individual killers kill rate, maps where there are more kills, etc...) so on your second paraghraph...
"First of all the most obvious part. As I said, all stats except for "Red ranks killrate" don't depend on ranks or skill, because it's an average for ALL games."
...you just proved my point... that's what we are discussing...
And we are not just talking about statistics they provived, we are talking about any statisc that is taken in consideration to balance the game. With the amount of unbalanced games those statistics come from, makes those statistics useless for it.
I think you are the one who doesn't understand. I keep saying that you have to be careful when interpreting the stats, they are just averages. But even those averages can tell a lot. Sometimes it is enough to draw a general conclusion. You can see what maps are killer or survivor sided, which side wins more games.
What really baffles me is when people say that stats are worthless in general or try to question the way they were acquired to try to invalidate them.
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@themirrortwin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006556#Comment_1006556
1) Scientific articles are held to a much higher standard. Have you heard of peer review. It is a false equivalent* comparing scientific articles to the DEVs report.
2) The raw data would be excellent and game replays are not needed. Assuming we'd ask for that is a hasty generalization* and wrong. I want to know how the stats break down by rank and number of hours in the game. I want to know how often skill checks are missed, how long totems stay up on average, and how often perks are used - yet none of those are available.
For a while, I played the MOBA, Heroes of the Storm by Blizzard (before it went to heck). They offered post game text files that contained relevant information about the game and users created a site called HotsLogs that allowed users to upload their game data text files and create a massive database. It was incredible interesting and helpful.
The DEVs don't want to do that because it would prove that they are not interested in balancing the game but making the most money, but that's fine. I mean DBD can only survive if it makes money.
3) Stats do show crude averages, but raw data doesn't lie. Raw data could answer so many more questions via stratification.
This forum is full of opinions with limited anecdotal evidence. I wish the community had access to the unbiased, raw data so that we could argue compellingly rather than talk in circles on here.
*Logical Fallacies
Raw data can be easily falsified by an error in the code. Peer reviewes make mistakes. As I said, you can question ANYTHING if you don't want to agree with stats. Totems, skill checks stats would be interesting to know, but they don't affect the stats that DEVs released.
I worked as a DEV and balanced a game, fans of the game were not agree to what the DEV team was doing with the balance, although balance changes were needed. And guess what, showing stats, showing raw data didn't change anything about their opinion. People will always find excuses not to believe in something they don't want to believe, they will think of 1000 silly excuses: "no raw data", stats are "lacking", "badly acquired" etc. I'm not surprised at all.
Stats are fine.
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@YaiPa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006475#Comment_1006475
The first thing they teach you at whatever statistic class is not to jump on instant conclusion with the data you gained. For example, Hawkins is the map with the highest kill ratio, is it the strongest map for killers? No, simply it was the last released, hence not many people knew the survival basics of the map such as pallet spawn and correct pallet looping at the time data was taken.
Also, as already said, their data was taken incorrectly: for example, what is a red rank match? A match "hosted" by a red rank killer, but what about the survivors? They didn't tell us.
for such reason, these kind of datas shouldn't be taken seriously, unless with much more data.
Stats for Hawking show what they show: the killrate. There is no reason to question the stats. Interpreting stats is a different thing and I said it many times already. Even if stats for Hawkins are slightly skewed (although you have a weak argument, since both killers and survivors are new to it, not just survivors), it doesn't really affect the other stats.
Saying that stats are worthless, because you don't WANT to believe in them and nitpick at details is just laughable.
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@asergioam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006556#Comment_1006556
??? Are you kidding? You just confirmed my point in a way that seemed that you were trying to disaprove it! That's exactly what we are trying to get at! Ranking system is meaningless so why have it in the first place if they are not taking advantage of it to balance the game?
Oh my god... Ok, where do we start...
First of all the most obvious part. As I said, all stats except for "Red ranks killrate" don't depend on ranks or skill, because it's an average for ALL games. So, whether DEVs filtered out rank 1 vs rank 10 games doesn't matter AT ALL.
Next. Ranking is meaningless and I never said it was, it was you who tried to invalidate stats with "rank 1 vs rank 10 games were not filtered out" argument.
If you assign different ranks to players, it will not change the overall stats in any way, just the "red ranks killrate". So, you argumentation is wrong whether ranks are meaningless or not.
My opinion on ranks is, DEVs must split ranks into "season rank" and "skill-based rank". But it's a totally different topic.
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@themirrortwin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006475#Comment_1006475
An unbiased algorithm, ha. They present crude statistics without additional information and do not provide any raw data or any means to draw your own conclusions. This is how easy it is to trick people into believing something using statistics. As Mark Twain once said, "There are lies. There are damned lies. And there are statistics."
You don't get raw data in scientific articles with stats, yet science somehow manages to create new technologies that work. You can question them too, if you want. Asking DEVs for raw data for the stats... that's interesting. And then you will question the raw data and ask for game replays. At the end it boils down to whether you decide to believe something or not. Usually people don't believe because stats don't fit their own experience, because people forget that stats show AVERAGE numbers.
@asergioam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006478#Comment_1006478
Do they take out the games were a rank 10 killer plays against rank 2 and 3 survivors? Do they take out the games were rank 1 killers play against rank 10 survivors?
That's why @YaiPa says, and rightfully so, that the data from statistics is badly acquired.
Before matchmaking gets fixed, they can't fix piping system because they will always use data from very unballanced matches, and before they can balance the game (maps, perks, killer habilities) they have to fix ranking system first so... it all comes down to fixing the source of all the problems first: Matchmaking.
What you said is only theoretically relevant for Red Ranks killrate stats. But we all know ranks mean nothing in this game, they get reset and even a potato can get to rank 1, provided he plays enough during a month. So, people with different skills are mixed up in red ranks games anyway.
All other stats are unaffected by what you wrote, I hope I don't have to explain why? Those are averages across ALL ranks.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006374#Comment_1006374
I'm sorry, but I can't defend your argument nor most of their graphs, there was no comunication about what info they used to generate them, so we don't actually know (except for some obviously clear ones) how they made them.
But talking about maps, they did say they didn't count matchs with DCs in them, and counting kills per match per map is not something that complex, they took all kind of kills in this specific data, regardless of mori or sacrifice, but taking away from the data games with even 1 DC. That's good info for me in this specific subject...
@_VTK_ What do you think?
Calculating an average is just building a sum and dividing it by number of games that DEVs took into account. It's 5 lines of code for the algorithm itself.
DEVs said what time period they used for stats, they said they ignored games with DCs. Many players have posted their personal stats over many games and they correlate to what DEVs showed us. Stats can be off by 1-2% depending on misc factors like rounding, but all in all the bigger picture that the latest stats show us is correct and there are 0 reasons not to trust them. You just have to correctly interpret them.
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@YaiPa said:
Despite maps are the biggest problem atm in DbD, you shouldn't take care of the statistics, those numbers they threw at us are completely worthless, lacking and also badly acquired. Those numbers caused more damage than other.
Opinion of a biased main vs stats collected by an unbiased algorithm, I wonder what has more value /s
Collecting and correctly interpreting the stats is the only way to balance the game because of all the cognitive humans biases: confirmation bias, frequency illusion, Dunning-Krueger effect, just to name a few. So, stats are fine, regardless of whether they fit your subjective reality or not, you'll just have to accept it.
Concerting gen times. Gen times are fine and it's mainly not the maps. It's the gap in looping skills (=chase times) that makes it hard to balance the game. 1 good looper can change the outcome of a game. Throw in 2 or 3 and Killer will DC. What DEVs can do is buffing bloodlust to cut out extremely long chases or re-work the way pallet towns are placed on maps, so that survivors can't safely run from one pallet town to another one. Survivors will need a buff in return.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Not really that useful. As said above, this is the Main Reason why Doctor gets his Static Field removed. Suddenly starting to scream without any feedback, WHY this happened is kinda frustrating for new Players. If the Wraith would be able to do that while cloaked, it has exactly the same effect.
I also dont think that Wraith needs a secondary Power. What he needs (in my opinion) is a higher Movement Speed while cloaked so that his Power is more useful in a chase (which it is not, currently, because you will not cover any more distance, because you slow down while uncloaking) and make him more stealthy, like lowering his super-loud footsteps and breathing.
+1 for higher speed while cloaked.
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@Stitch7833 said:
title sums it up pretty much... my points:
- makes every gen so easy no matter the rank
- people are gonna rank up into ranks they shouldnt
- i liked more of a challenge, i could hit skill checks 90% of the time
- stops players learning tiles
- games get shorter meaning more time in lobbies
- shorter games mean less chases and less fun
- too easy to lead on 2+gen chases if the killer doesnt break off
Good list. You forgot
- contributes to global warming
Bad killers who relied on Ruin will have to get more sweaty, you know.
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@Kwanghyun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1005732#Comment_1005732
Oh the democracy....read the thread please. And noone cares about the DEV’s opinion of what is a win and what not lmao.
If you don't care what DEVs consider a win, don't ask them to change hatch spawn conditions then. As simple as that.
And BTW, it's not just DEVs who consider 2k/2 escapes a draw and 3k-4k a win, it's common sense. Anything else would be unfair for one of the sides.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1001664#Comment_1001664
And yet this graph says that survivors escape 80% of the time on PC at red ranks.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/644/OVXAEFPK5208.png
And Nurse has been nerfed since then and Ruin is about to be gutted, so I am going to assume this number is going to be much higher soon.
Or y'know, you can stop basing your arguments on misleading stats. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's been said again and again that these stats were incorrect, so it makes no sense quoting them. The correct escape rates can be found in the latest stats:
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That would be great actually. Unused perks hold a big potential for the game.
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When I'm on the hook and another survivor jukes the killer from far away right to my hook, and goes on junking him somewhere near the hook, so other survivors can't save me.
Or when someone is slugged by a campy killer and instead of crawling away from someone who is on the hook, he crawls right under the hook and starts spinning around on the ground, making it very easy for the killer to camp both survivors. So dumb.
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Yes, I might give up a perk slot for this, could be useful for late-game. This is something mostly solo survivors could use.
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No one ever said that the stats were inaccurate, don't look for excuses.
What Peanits surely meant is that you have to be cautious when interpreting the stats. That's a common phrase to ANY stats.
One example: even though SWF's escape rate is almost identical to solo escape rate, SWF is surely theoretically much stronger than solo on paper, but SWF is super-altruistic. But. It's SWF's nature, people are friends, so it's natural that they are playing more altruistic, altruism is part of the game. The stats accurately represent their real escape rate, they just don't tell any details and don't tell "why".
For solo, there's surely not much to discuss, the average escape rate is around 30-35%, even if you don't fool around, anyone playing solo can confirm that.