_Onyx_
_Onyx_
About
- Username
- _Onyx_
- Joined
- Visits
- 1,187
- Last Active
Comments
-
@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711468#Comment_3711468
“If Killers were entitled like that, no one would ever be able to play out a full match” killers dc too dont get it twisted. Also killers lobby dodge a lot to cherry pick lobbies. You can’t do that as survivor
Killers lobby dodging is not a comparison to Survivors giving up during a match. One essentially guarantees the opponent wins, the other makes the opponent wait longer to load into a match.
Of course Killers DC too, there's always gonna be people that get tilted in any game and any role they play. Doesn't mean that it happens as much. If a Killer quits, only they lose and every opponent wins. If a Survivor quits, they lose, but they also most likely made their team lose too. Quitting in a team environment is always crappy. Whereas if they weren't bottoms, stuck it out, and just helped the team do gens, you may all win.
Also, Killers quitting has always been something Survivors love to see happen, ironically. Getting a Killer to quit is always clipped and met with laughter at their expense. If Killers quit matches on mass whenever they versed something they disliked: Flashbang+Background Player or For The People+Buckle Up. There would be outrage and the Devs would do something about it. Either nerf the perks, or most likely punish the quitters heavily. Survivors DC and they usually get met with Survivor buffs or Killer meta nerfs, or most likely both. They don't help the situation. And players don't help themselves.
Seriously, just do gens. It's what you'd all be doing in the next match you load into when the Killer hasn't got any meaningful pressure anyway. So just do the gens in the matches you think are losses and you maybe most likely will turn it around and win.
-
@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711468#Comment_3711468
No, killers also DC or stand in the corner when they don't have single hook after 3 gens are done.
stick it out and actually try to win anyway.
Yeah, sure, especially while vs this build on high mobility killer:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V8QGM2KPTGR4/image.png
The Survivor meta is literally a perfect counter to all the things you said you don't like versing.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YSBJFAPAT4HZ/image.png
And how above perks let me counter situation in which one of the randoms got hooked, killer inflicted PR (-25%), then go to mine gen to inflict another POP (-5%, then -30% of what's left). Am I missing something? Should I counter this playstyle by Sprint Bursting or Lithe???
Glue yourself to gens. Chances are you will win or at least give your teammates a win.
Why should I if there is no point and all progress that I do on my objective could be entirely nullified?
Like, killers got:
- Longer gen times (+10 seconds)
- Weaker and smaller maps
- Weaker tiles, new map don't have any strong loops
- Healing nerfs, medkit nerfs
- Basekit STBFL stacks
- Reduced speed boost after hitting survivor
- Basekit -5% on kicking gen
- Removed gen tapping
Yet I still see non-stop aura revealing perks awarding killers for doing such hard tasks as opening the locker/kicking the gen
or absurd gen regression perks on killers that really don't need all of this.Game should move on, gen regression perks should slow down the progress of gen, not stall the game and nullify all efforts entirely.
Killers giving up is far less common than Survivors giving up.
Mobility Killers are obviously gonna be able to apply pressure easier than others. But if you don't like going against a Killer or play style, adapt your build and play style so that when you go against them, you are ready and at an advantage.
If you and your randoms used a mix of those perks in the picture, they would be able to prevent or decrease the frequency of the Killer meta from being used. You have chase perks and anti-momentum perks listed there. So what they regress the gen closest to being done, there should be 2 others close to being done at the same time if your Survivors aren't playing bad, or making dumb decisions like not being on a generator. So even if your one gets regressed from 99% down to 50%. That's only 30 seconds that someone else needs to swoop in and finish it off while you get chased, at an advantage because your meta perks allow you to extend chases longer than normal.
You seriously think Killers don't need gen regression? You must be at a very low level of MMR. Killers will lose 3 gens for one hook 99/100 of matches verse good Survivors. And by good, I mean they know to glue to gens while they are not being pressured by the Killer or the match scenario (one hooked, one slugged, one being chased for a specific example).
A lot of those Killers buffs barely impact the gameplay, the only one/two I'd say were great was 5% regression per kick + no gen tapping. Everything else is barely noticeable. Survivors can still get hit and make it halfway across a map in a straight line (about 60 meters) before they need to find a pallet or tile to loop.
Yet Survivors can pre drop every safe pallet and be fine. Don't be so blinkered, gen regression is used because the game is impossible to actually get a meaningful chance of winning without them not because players love those perks and want to use them. Every match will go to the end game/EGC without gen defence and the Killer will only get more than 1 kill if the Survivors get overly altruistic and end up making mistakes in the process. No gen defence against smart, efficient Survivors is giving them a free win.
-
You don't see Killers DCing all the time when Survivors do their objectives in the shortest time possible.
It's a very immature, childish attitude to give up at the smallest inconvenience. If you're anticipating that you're gonna lose quickly, what's the big deal? You'll be in a new match in no time at all if you just stick it out and actually try to win anyway. If you do end up losing, who cares? At least it's giving you and your teammates a chance by sticking with it and helping them try to progress their objective.
The Survivor meta is literally a perfect counter to all the things you said you don't like versing. It's actually not a great stance you've taken up. The weaker Killers, even with full slowdown still struggle to get a single kill against Survivors that glue to gens and don't make stupid decisions like throw themselves at a hook. The stronger Killers will still struggle against Survivors that are glued to gens too. Yeah they have more tools to be able to strategize better than the rest of the roster, but they still have to try to compete against insanely quick gens speed. If you play safe against them, it minimises the frequency they can access their slowdown perks (since they're hook related).
Seriously, the entitled behaviour of "I don't like this, I quit" has plagued the community of DBD for years now. The Devs have done nothing to discourage Survivors crying and getting out of their pram. So now it's got to this stage where people justify why they have a childish attitude with the "it's X Killer, so it's fine" or "these perks are boring". If Killers were entitled like that, no one would ever be able to play out a full match.
So, to you, and all bottom Survivors with childish attitudes, if you feel like you are gonna lose, just do your objective. Glue yourself to gens. Chances are you will win or at least give your teammates a win. Instead of quitting and making your team lose because you're a bottom.
-
@Marioneo said:
in this video Otz calls out Survivors who give up for every small inconvenience its gotten so worse 9/10 games has someone Dc or give up on hook and Devs aware of broken maps and exploited Perks but refuse to killswitch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kqWbP64FX4
Its time that Devs make drastic changes to the game to stop players from ruining matches everyone is sick of this.
Developers should make it so taking a chance on hook no longers drains the time on hook you just get 2 4% chances and then it disables or take a chance removed in general. 2nd stage on Hook Struggle is removed.
I've said for ages, if a Survivor wants out, they should just glue themselves to gens and do nothing else. Quitting is such bottom behaviour.
Also, I love that people only really pay attention to the annoying and bs behaviour of most of the Survivor player base when the popular person(s) talk about it
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710615#Comment_3710615
Especially when someone writes up an essay on exactly how to do it. I feel this lends to things… happening in the game. But maybe it wont? I feel this is why tunneling took off suddenly as the only way to play from beginning of the trial. Maybe it did.
Ah well, too late now. Hopefully this has your desired effect and makes this not become a thing.
Players are always going to discover ways to win in the quickest or easiest ways consistently. This could be one of those things, it's exclusive to 3 maps at the moment, but I don't doubt for a second SWF content creators would definitely try to expand this to try and make it viable.
There's video on YouTube showcasing this play style. Me on the forums talking about how it could be a problem wouldn't be the catalyst in seeing it more and more. If it is then oops. But ideally the more people do see it, the more the Devs have to pay attention to it, one would hope.
-
@Bagginses420 said:
The whole point of survivors is to survive. In a real life event, would this be possible? I mean, couldn't there possibly be a fault or weakness in the killer's plan? Not everything would or could play out to either one's favor. And wit a lot of the comments agreeing that this "abuse" is so rare, and I think bc many still aren't aware, that as killer, just learn to work around that. I SURVIVOR main and didn't know this, but that's probably bc I am usually solo. Not often do I swf and with comms. And I don't entirely understand it all, the struggle, bc I survivor main. But this doesn't seem like an issue worth fixing unless all the sudden people (survivors) decided to only play swf +comms.
This argument is strange. DBD has been so far from realism since it's released.
The response of "it's rare to see" doesn't really hold weight imo; because it could very well become a common play style if everyone realises how busted it is.
-
@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3709295#Comment_3709295
Respawing broken hooks when 1 survivor is left stops someone from just dying in a corner you've killed their team in. Maybe it's just a me thing but I see a few matches where there's one guy left and they're not going to escape, so they run to whatever corner most of the gameplay is happening in, and sometimes because of that I've sacrificed one or multiple survivors there, so there is no hooks and I have to wait the bleedout timer which is boring. This issue is exacerbated by the fact that there are places on maps where you can ONLY reach one hook, which is dumb (if you could reach 2 hooks from any area, sabo would be nerfed significantly even in main buildings)
Yeah, that's something I've wanted for a while too. Except I wanted them to respawn during the match itself. Maybe like 2mins after they break.
@Crowman said:
Survivors can fight to deny hooks in the same way Killers can fight to deny unhooks.
True, but this is an example where they aren't just fighting to deny the hook, they're guaranteed to deny the hook.
-
@jmwjmw27 said:
I think the playstyle itself is fine. Very rarely have I seen anyone actually pull it off against me, even with map offerings if you know what you are doing it takes a significant amount of skill and planning to get sabotages against a killer that is expecting it. That said, there are some parts of hook spawn RNG that just suck and need to be fixed.
I think if hooks respawned when 1 survivor is remaining, for example, a lot of abuse at the end of the game out of spite would be gone. And fixing/reworking hook distance calculation to not just consider "crow flies" distance, like when hills are involved or buildings like badham.
You're right about the sabotages to a degree. Alex's Toolbox plus Resilience is a guaranteed sabo. If good teams do this gameplay, you aren't gonna get anyone at all. You see them heading to their spot, you leave them alone. When you leave them, they ain't gonna stay there, they'll head back into the map and do a gen. The gameplay of denying hooks only really starts up when the Killer is chasing someone. It isn't like every killer has the luxury of stealth either. And stealth means very little against a SWF on comms.
What would respawning broken hooks when you've either already won or lost do? Would stop the griefing from a pissed off Killer you mean?
-
@SkeletalElite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3709176#Comment_3709176
as long as there is no spot that is truly unhookable without any hook RNG to it like the old RPD library its not really an issue. For a team to exploit it they have to have a very specific build, use a map offering, and get good map RNG to be able to do it and then on top of that they have to not make ANY mistakes. If they make even a single mistake while no mither is equipped they're getting hooked. If they don't have no mither there is no problem because they can be bled out. The number of unlikely events that have to occur for you to have to face the scenario just means its not having a significant negative impact on the game.
And very rarely is it truly uncounterable in its current state. Even if a team of 4 no mithers finds a spot where they can't be hooked and manages to sit in it, you can eventually bleed them out by downing them over and over again, and if they try to leave it to do generators that gives you an opportunity to hook them before they reach their spot again, the main problem of the scenario is that its boring and time consuming, but because its so rare, it generally doesn't need any changes other than maybe the occasional map adjustment if a spot where its too easy to do pops up.
But making it so RNG isn't a factor anymore would prevent this gameplay altogether. There are strategies you can do with No Mither that makes you harder to Kill even if you do get hooked. You gain access to Dead Hard. So, in a prepared team, you could have 4 No Mither's, 4 Dead Hards and then a mix of Exponential, Flip Flop, Breakout and Resilience. Cover all exits as it were.
Also, bleeding players out is extremely boring. It's the Survivor equivalent of the gen stalling gameplay Knight and Skull Merchant used to do.
I see your points, they're valid arguments. But even so, the fact they added the hook upstairs in Ormond makes me think the Devs recognise when something can be abused. Hawkins can be abused. Badham can be abused.
Uncounterable should mean "I'm stopping this play from happening and it's allowing me to win or get momentum leading to a potential win." Can you class bleeding the whole team out as a win? I don't even know if bleed outs rank up a players MMR.
-
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/412531/opinions-on-hook-denying-gameplay
Do you think it should stay? Is it fine? Is it a problem that needs to be fixed?The potential to rescue a survivor before they get hooked is an important part of the game. If survivors could never stop a hook from happening, why even have hooks?
The situation you lay out is incredibly rare, requires a 4 person SWF to be going out of there way to get it, and they still need to be able to get to one of the sweet spots on the map to pull this off. Given the massive weakness No Mither has as a perk, the fact that it can be situationally strong is not a problem.
Making it so that hooks are mandatory spawns in the upstairs areas of maps that have them.That some maps could use a few adjustments is a far different thing than overall gameplay.
Survivors can still prevent hooks from happening. This example of the gameplay being centred around that is the point. Body blocks, pallet saves, light saves, sabotaging, all of it would still be available to Survivors if the Devs clamped down on the 'abusable' 'single minded' approach to that gameplay.
I disagree that it needs to be a 4 man SWF in order for this to work. All it takes is a duo at least, and the other randoms being competent at the game to not give the Killer free pressure when they're the ones being focused, in order to get value out of this gameplay.
When it comes to hooks being added to certain elevations and areas of the map being a different topic, I disagree there too. It goes hand in hand with the topic, since the points I raised wouldn't be points for discussion if there wasn't a way for Survivors to force a situation where they can't be hooked. If a hook spawned at the top of Portal Room, the Survivors couldn't use it as an area to force the grasp escape.
-
@SkeletalElite said:
This is so rare that it doesn't really matter, and 95% of the the time you do encounter it, you can just bleed them out unless they have no mither, but if they have no mither there is no gurantee they'll always be able to get to their unhookable spot since they can't be healthy and take hit on the way there.
So, your mindset is "frequency of occurrence determines the degree of the issue"? That makes sense, I can see that. But the fact it can happen, surely could be cause for concern, no?
@Pulsar said:
It's annoying, for sure, but so far the only real problem was the RPD Library.
Dear lord, yeah that was a glaring issue that had to go lol that was due to it consistently being horrendous for the Killer to play around it. No rng, just pure bs.
-
No reason to pick up as certain Killers when the potential to eat a 5 seconds stun, even when you haven't been tunneling, exists.
The changes they did go ahead with to Twins were so good. Makes playing as them so smooth and fast paced now. But nothing they did gives incentive to pick up and hook. So yeah, no reason not to slug.
Maybe try using Boon: Exponential and Tenacity. Or Unbreakable if you can't spare two slots in your loadout.
My mentality when I play is this:
"Whatever the most common type of play style and Killer I go against, or whatever the most common play style my teammates have, the build I run reflects that and allows me to play optimally against it." -- If my team is selfish I'll use a stealth build or self-heal build etc. If I go against Skull Merchant the most (which I am recently) I'll use Urban Evasion with Hast perks.
-
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707698#Comment_3707698
That doesn't seems to be more effective than gen regression perks though, even from sweat perspective, full regression builds largely outweighs any specialized killer builds, especially when they nerf perk synergy like franklin's and hoarder with special items
That's why you mix the two together. Gen perks with other perks that boost that Killer's play style.
When it comes to some perk synergy with powers, when those get nerfed it's usually because it makes the Killer's power too simple. It's clear the Devs want Killers to have to use their brains a lot. They make the HUD vague for Killer, as an example.
But that doesn't stop the player from finding perks that boost the Killer's specialised play style that don't make the match easy mode, but it does make it winnable.
-
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707474#Comment_3707474
but even if people love using many different perks, any "fun" builds will be absolutely demolished by sweat squad anyways, forcing them to use full stacked gen slowdown builds
There really is no fun in a game where it ends before any of your perk gets the value, there is no choice but to use something that ACTUALLY does work
I'm not really referring to builds that make that make the character's power the most engaging and interactive for both sides. I'm talking about equipping perks that match a play style that that character excels at. For example, a mix of maybe one gen perk and then the rest are auras on Nurse and Huntress. Then you got a mix of maybe two gen perks and slug perks for Twins. A mix of one gen perk, intel and chase perks for Clown etc etc.
@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707474#Comment_3707474
Yeah but I learned when playing killer go with the default you have on everyone then mix and match. Example is Unknown for me I use Brutal as it's a default for me(RNG can be mean at times) but i learned to use the teleport so I'll bring BBQ since I can get someone else just after hooking a survivor. Even then I know it's crazy and why would you use it Monstrous shrine is another good one mix it with Devour Soap and you got a nice build.
You're right, default is a good way to learn the Killer's power. Then mix it up as you get better and more knowledgeable with them. You used Unknown as an example; so I will too, maybe include Monitor and Discordance, to be more sneaky and consistently accurate with UVX attacks from long range at gens or heals, combined with your Brutal Strength and a gen perk or your Devour Hope perhaps. I'm not saying this out of " the build could be better" or anything. I'm more in-keeping with my original comment about using a loadout that brings out the Killer's true strength while also being able to have win potential against the majority of Survivors.
-
I think it's also to do with the attitudes and mentality of the players too.
What I mean by this is, players find a loadout that works universally on all Killers, and spam it. Without trying to figure out alternative loadouts and play styles that work for that specific character better and more consistently.
Survivors do the same though. They see that second chances and otherwise-named 'invincibility builds' are ultra strong and can be used in multiple different ways (defensively, offensively, and distractingly) and stick to that without ever changing.
-
Yeah, I mainly get the rubber banding when I vault. Annoying as Killer because the Survivors don't rubber band with me, so they get free distance.
Can't say I've noticed it as Survivor though. Although the auras of teammates on Bond look so goofy lol legs moving out of sync and what not.
-
Against cautious Survivors, aim a Crow at a gen while you're chasing a Survivor. They won't assume it's aimed at them since why would you not aim it at the one you're chasing lol if you use Severed Hands with it then you can do this even quicker.
When this isn't an option, you could also try using two or three crows placed at different distances for the same gen, one misses them because they got off early, then the second or third ons flies in and hits them when they jump back on it. If they did stay on the gen to begin with, you get an injury or a down, so that strat works in your favour really well.
You could also try using Hex perks too, increases the chances of being able to get it. Since you can just predict that they're on it if you know they've seen it already.
Can be annoying to get this challenge verse Survivors that always play cautiously whenever they hear the Crows fly. But it's doable, and quicker than you might think.
-
I think a Tombstone kill from the ground would only make sense if the Survivor was on their final hook state.
It needs the locker counterplay since it's an insta-kill.
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706818#Comment_3706818
I'll run some matches with your addon choices above. I'm curious! I've used them before but its been so long since I've switched up Trapper. I use Tension Spring and Trapper sack. Spring is personal choice, but there's better choices if one wants to just win win win.
Also.. Thank you for this. This feels like a genuine discussion and not the usual drivel. Thank you, sincerely :)
Using your logic list, I'd put him mid Upper C. Anyone can pick him up and get the idea pretty quick. Feels like that anyway. This puts him at D by default. New player = no skill determined. (This is all assumed ofc.)
With <20 hours, he can be low to mid C. With dedication, He can be anywhere from A-upper C. And I feel this is due to his skill leveling.
Which is to say, survivor game knowledge directly inflates Trapper's skill ceiling. If you can survivor like a boss, Trapper is difficult to outclass imo. Can't think of another killer who scales like this: Maybe Hag.
When I load into a game, I usually decide to go ham. If someone begs or is asking for pity… the first one to do so usually lives. Again… all decisions I can make as trapper can suck the wind right out from a ballooning Survivor team momentum. The swing game he brings is insane.
To close, I'll give feedback after trying your addons again. Its been years since Ive switched his addons lol. I tried the haste coffee grounds but it wasn't enough for me to get anything happening. Thanks for this, not many people give a damn about the OG poster boy. <3
edit: Might have missed questions, apologies if so!; Grammar corrections.
Yeah Trapper is definitely the 'wildcard' of the Killer roster, for sure. That's what makes him stronger than the other Killers that are universally considered weaker. His matches always have that potential to go from "I'm losing this for sure" to "oh, nevermind, 3 kills." lol
I think something to also consider is what the Killer's power allows them to do consistently that others can't. I think that's why I don't see him higher than D. The sporadic nature of his gameplay makes others that can snowball and maintain the pressure with a tad more consistency rank higher than Trapper. While the ones that struggle to stay on top of pressuring the Survivors and usually feel like a constant struggle will ultimately rank lower.
When it comes to the add-ons I chose for this Tier List, being his best buffs, is that it allows the Trapper to waste minimal time setting up in advance for later chases. While also allowing Trapper to be in control of the mid-chase Trap placement without worrying about losing much distance on the Survivor, if they predict that you'll commit to setting the Trap and leave the tile early. Also, along with those benefits, you also minimise the time that a Survivor has to spot you actively setting the Trap, making it so you could potentially get away with an otherwise obvious Trap and not have it disarmed instantly, or when the Survivors need it disarmed.
No worries :) I always enjoy a good discussion and hearing others arguments against me. Coz sometimes you don't see yourself being wrong, but then one well spoken argument makes you realise "oh, yeah I'm wrong on this" lol it's why I made this post. I genuinely believe Knight is the weakest Killer in DBD atm. But if someone can point out why he isn't and it makes sense, I'll gladly change my mind.
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Well, while I love this debate, I need a word with @Xernoton and @_Onyx_
While the debate is good and healthy, there are some things I need to comment on since you brought my boy into the mix.
"Both Killers suffer from their own issues of "Survivors control my power". But I'd say Trapper is miles above Knight in the lower Tiers of comparing Killers. Trappers add-ons are actually quite insanely good, and on top of that, there's always gonna be potential for that Trap that catches someone out and snowballs the whole team. Knight doesn't compare to that, his power has zero snowball potential."
Between the two, Knight is more at the poopy end of the stick. The guards pathing, in my experience, is WAY too easy to manipulate as survivor. It makes me do something other than a gen, but its still not 'threatening' in my head.
Trapper's power can only be undone if they know its there. You always know a guard is there. Trapper just wins this hands down.
"Against good Survivors as Trapper, I know there's a chance I can snowball and beat them. Or at least draw anyway."
This supports my points well. Against good survivors, Knight is kind of a joke. I think I saw someone say Midwich was a great map for knight. Its also great for Trapper, if not his best. But I wouldn't fear Knight on Mid like Trappy boi. If -this- is something you want to debate, please, let me know :)
I'd comment on more of the Trapper bits, but Im at work and can't sadly.
Overall, Trapper is more upper mid tier than bottom. People just have no desire to put time into the… dare I say… best killer in the game? With a few hours in customs to strictly find good spots for the traps, you can literally never have a bad map. I can't think of another killer that can say that, even nurse. But his chances of winning don't drop nearly as much as most killers when facing even a good SWF.
I'd say Trapper is the best low-tier Killer. The rank logic I go by (that make the most sense) are: S+, S, A, B, C, D. Upper mid is near the top of B or bottom of A, depending on perspective. Compared with each Killer on the roster, you'd go as far as to say he is better than half of them?
(I will note this too, when I do my tier lists, I do it with the Killer's strongest number buff add-ons used, as opposed to base kit. So you wouldn't see Tombstone Myers ranked, but you'd see stalk rate and duration of Tier III, for example.)
It was me that mentioned Midwich, and also RPD, being good for Knight. And yeah you're spot on, both of those maps are showcased much more convincingly by Trapper than a Knight can. I would also add to my point about add-ons, that Trapper has a lot of variety and spice to his loadout, Knight hasn't really got much to shake up his gameplay and strats.
For me, the D-Tier Killers in order of strongest to weakest are:
- Trapper w/Fastening Tools+Trapper Glove
- Legion w/Mischief List+Friendship Bracelet
- Pig w/Last Will+Workshop Grease
- Hag w/Dragonfly Wings+Dried Cicada
- Onryö w/Videotape Copy+Bloody Fingernails
- Good Guy w/Power Drill+Automatic Screwdriver
- Nightmare w/Nancy's Sketch+Nancy's Masterpiece
- Knight w/Call To Arms+Map Of The Realm
Would you say I'm accurate with those Trapper add-ons being his strongest combination of number buffs? Or what would you say is his best number buffs?
-
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706081#Comment_3706081
I don’t think the developers went out of their wait to make the guards less sophisticated… I don’t believe that for second and then if so they didn’t put it any of the patch notes?
No. Knight has bugs that should’ve been addressed while kill switched for so long but they weren’t. The game in general in my opinion has been more buggy since knight came back. (Not blaming him)
Especially these last few weeks
All of my experience with Knight leads me to the conclusion that the Devs did something to Knights coding while he was kill switched to make his guards worse. Whenever stuff like this happens, I always assume they're doing stuff behind the scenes with like a rework or a fix with their power. Clown was 'buggy'/couldn't do things he normally could for a few weeks, all before they announced his rework and then the stuff that was "buggy" suddenly synced perfectly with his new kit and it mads sense. Twins were recently bugged for about a month, and then when they got fixed it was announced they're reworking them (obviously the full rework never went through) but you see my point. I'm hopeful all these issues with Knight are the team fiddling with him behind the scenes.
@caligraph said:
knights a solid B tier. Carnifex is definitely the best one, insta break pallet, 24s chase.
Knight used to be a powerhouse when chasing a Hunted Survivor, now he's a pushover.
Don't get me wrong, there are play styles that do work and make Knight stronger and more threatening. But comparatively speaking, Knight is the worst on the roster. Down there with Freddy. I always rank Killers comparatively, I find it helps you get the most logical looking Tier List for the Killers.
B Tier is Killers like Plague, Demogorgon, Myers, Clown. Killers that have insanely good snowball potential and can maintain a good amount of pressure, but not as well as the A or S tier Killers can. Knight is definitely not on par with that level of gameplay.
-
These changes were very much needed. It feels so good to be able to utilise both Charlotte and Victor in a chase without feeling like Victor is the only way to get people quickly. While also being in full control of your power post hits with Victor too. Very smooth to play as Twins now.
I'm still gonna slug the whole team though. Nothing about these buffs makes me ever want to pick someone up. Especially now DS has been buffed, madness.
Hopefully in the future there's an update that increases Charlotte's action and movement speed for a good amount of time (30-45 seconds) if both her and Victor deal damage to the same Survivor to put them into the dying state. Give me a reason to pick them up and carry them to a hook, knowing that I'm making that Survivor stronger against my chases later in the match.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705831#Comment_3705831
You can stun his Guards, you could never do that before.
You mean the orb stun? That has always been the case because they based his code on what they programmed for Spirit. So the orb is actually referenced as the killer's position.
His Guards are the worst they've ever been, they get stuck on things that they can easily walk around, and are easily manipulated by dropping a pallet.
This has been an issue since his PTB. Nothing new either. They didn't shadow nerf him. They just never fixed him.
About his Guards getting stuck; I have never seen that. Though I have seen the AI do most inexplicable things before. Overall Knight is a buggy mess but he was never nerfed.
Gotta say, I've never been stunned until recently. If that has indeed been a thing since the ptb, I struggle to see how in all my hours and many matches as Knight (since his release) I've only started to get stunned since he came back from being kill switched. I always sent out a Guard at a pallet before it was dropped preemptively and was never once stunned by it.
@kit_mason @MechWarrior3 the nerfs I'm referring to are the coding for his Guards. There is no doubt in my mind that they're extremely less sophisticated now. I refuse to be told that the Guards were always like this. Early on in his gameplay the worst thing I'd see a Guard do is hole themself or go around a wall that wasn't necessary delaying the hunt by 1.5 seconds at most. Ever since the kill switch, he's come back and his Guards are worse than useless, unless the Survivor just straight up panics and essentially lets them hit them. They get stuck at least once a match, they get manipulated every chase. This rarely happened before the killer switch
-
In regards to his current state:
- You can stun his Guards, you could never do that before.
- His Guards are the worst they've ever been, they get stuck on things that they can easily walk around, and are easily manipulated by dropping a pallet.
It's your turn to be specific with the add-ons usefulness now. Coz I've given my reasons and logic as to why they aren't any good. And have also explained the ones that are chosen the most and why that's the case.
When it comes to comparisons to other Killers strength. Myers is not a low-tier Killer (It's laughable that people genuinely and sincerely think he is.). Trapper has similar logic to why he is low tier like Knight is, but his add-ons are superior to most low tier Killers so he is definitely not the weakest. Freddy is definitely down there with Knight, except Freddy has the luxury of map traversal. So even in situations where he cannot use his anti-loop or deception, he can still apply initial pressure to the Survivor, and then regain his power when he hits them. Knights map presence with his Guards is limited. Once they get the Survivor off the gen you have no power until the Hunt or Patrol is ended. So that's already comparatively weaker than Freddy since at least Freddy can regain his control of the power. Freddy has no end game pressure at all, so that's a huge reason why he is down there as the weakest. But Knight also sucks in the end game too. His power sucks at applying pressure across the board, take the gens away and he is never gonna be able to stop the doors or end chases quickly when the match is at that stage. (This is all ignoring perks that can be used, because then it's obviously the perk giving the player the pressure, not the Killer themselves)
I will say this though, slug-orientated gameplay with a gen explosion loadout and add-ons that can compliment this style is what I'm currently spamming to semi-decent effect. Skipping over the time drains of carrying and hooking everyone you down definitely allows Knight to have a smaller increase to his pressure. But this style does not make up for his awful state of play in regards to his power overall.
@Choaron never said I was a Knight main. But I have put a good amount of hours into him to understand why Knight sucks in his current state, in comparison to release-onwards. I loved this Killer on release and subsequently put hours and many matches into him. Back when everyone was abusing the 30min+ stall matches, I was trying to learn his power and actually have engaging and interactive matches as Knight. Obviously this is an opinion post, so whether people whole-heartedly agree, disagree or at the least take my opinion on board and think to themselves if it holds any substance to it, is what this kind post is all about. But I do hope the Devs see this and potentially agree Knight needs saving. Even if we're looking at an add-on pass for now, I'd take it. Anything that allows actual value from using the add-ons. But ideally I want the changes I specified to happen.
-
@Xernoton said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but to my knowledge the Knight has not received a single nerf. He was buffed and then left alone. Also, most of his counterplay comes from the poorly coded AI of his guards, so there is not a lot of room to play around his power.
I agree, that he is not the best but he also is nowhere near the worst killer in the game. It's sad how addon dependent he is and that his power to this day never once worked without issues.
They never announced nerfs, but you can see from the gameplay from original release to now (post killswitch) that they have heavily crippled what his power can do.
His add-ons suck. He suffers from Pyramid Head syndrome. There's only that specific combo that is ever gonna be useful. And that's the duplicate Guard ones plus bigger detection/longer hunt.
What's your reason for Knight not being the worst? Coz the way I look at it is this: Knight can very rarely get value out of his power. You can zone in certain areas of certain maps to get hits, but his overall power gives him very little to actually utilise. Any Killer that essentially has no power is ultimately going to be the worst. I've had matches where I've read every movement and decision while placing a Guard, got let's say 9 out of 10 hunts triggered and still had no pressure because the Guards are so bad, and you either lock yourself into a chase with a new Survivor without a power, or you chase the Hunted one and still barely have pressure on them because the Guard is so clunky.
@bleep275 said:
he’s kinda crappy and super boring but by no means the worst. That crown is atop a throne of disarmed bear traps
Okay, see that argument shares the same angle as mine. Both Killers suffer from their own issues of "Survivors control my power". But I'd say Trapper is miles above Knight in the lower Tiers of comparing Killers. Trappers add-ons are actually quite insanely good, and on top of that, there's always gonna be potential for that Trap that catches someone out and snowballs the whole team. Knight doesn't compare to that, his power has zero snowball potential. The only time I have any pressure as Knight is on specific maps, like Midwich and RPD, and when the matchmaking buffer drops so that I'm playing against Survivors that are average at best. Against good Survivors as Trapper, I know there's a chance I can snowball and beat them. Or at least draw anyway.
-
@Sarrif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705061#Comment_3705061
Look if killers can't handle survivor fakeouts then why should survivors have to deal with it?
Because it's a 4v1. Survivors being able to constantly delay chases with the ability to vault cancel would drag chases on for even longer than they already are, in a state of DBD where even quick chases lose the Killer a generator or two.
So no, it's not a "if they get this, I get that" deal. Killers need to be able to cancel their animations and do small fakeouts in order to add counterplay to the uncounterable bs stuff Survivors can manipulate (and do so more than ever in this era of DBD)
-
@caligraph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702389#Comment_3702389
nobody is forcing you to lock yourself into an animation. breaking a pallet/kicking a gen is optional.
The animations like pick ups and searching a locker do lock you into it though. If the pallet break one is too much then fair enough, but the locker search and pick up definitely needs a cancel option. Because Survivors can force you to lock yourself into an animation
-
As of now, the only two things that are in my head that can be done to fix this uncounterable situation are:
- Nerf Background Player.
- Allow Killers to cancel the pick up animation during the early stages of it.
Coz like you said, just knowing the Survivor has that perk cripples the Killer. The strategy of swinging late so the pallet is dropped as you down the Survivor isn't viable either because they simply won't drop it; expecting the pallet or Flashbang save to happen if they get picked up.
I'd love for the Devs to be transparent about this type of stuff. Devs, tell us you recognise how bad of a situation this perk puts your game in. Lightborn is only a viable perk to use consistently on certain Killers, since for example, Myers, Spirit and Legion get hurt by being blinded the most. So being immune to blinds helps them a lot in maintaining a chase, on top of countering the Flashbang. But Lightborn only protects against blinds, the pallet saves are still made problematic by Background Player.
-
"[BUFF] Hooked Survivors are now on a 15-second timer (was 60 seconds)"
Does this mean you want Survivors to have 30 seconds on a hook before they are sacrificed?
-
@Sarrif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703781#Comment_3703781
K then no killer fakeouts, idc
Lol you say that like the two types of fakeouts even compare in fairness
-
@Yatol said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704702#Comment_3704702
so the Crow Mechanic?
That's for being idle.
There's situations where a Survivor is actively 'playing' but not doing anything to progress the game. Like the OP mentioned in their example. There are other examples too.
Specifically I would suggest they're revealed via Killer Instinct if they haven't been actively progressing the game in any significant manner for longer than 180 seconds. The Survivor would also have a constantly cawing crow over their head to let them know that they've triggered this mechanic.
-
I think there should be a mechanic in place throughout the entirety of the match. If a Survivor isn't doing anything related to actual interactive gameplay for X amount of time, then they're revealed to the Killer. That includes everything, not being chased, not healing, not repairing, not unhooking, if they haven't done anything like this for a good amount of time then they're revealed.
This would be good for multiple reasons. One, you don't get held hostage at late game when the match is over and no one wants to be found. Two, Survivors that spawn in just to troll their teammates for whatever reason cannot do that anymore, coz to avoid it they'd actually have to do something to help them progress the game in some shape or form.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703794#Comment_3703794
a lot of people enjoyed OG freddy because he was like scratch mirror myer's that you could play on any map. He was fun to play but not powerful. that was his main issue. The rework made him stronger but he lost fun and dimensions to his gameplay. After that, he got nerfed and he hasn't recovered since.
The only thing I found fun about old Freddy was the Dream Pull. Being able to constantly locate people and get them asleep. Like I said, if they give that aspect back to Freddy as he is now, along with a few more buffs, he'd be in a really good spot
-
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703864#Comment_3703864
So faster Projection, Red Paint Brush basekit and switching between snares and pulling in?
The first two, no problem. But the switching between powers... I dunno. Clown's switching is annoying to do so if it gets put in like that… It would be clunky.
Plus being able to project to any generator.
Well, I've said for ages that Clown should have a short animation when swapping between bottle types. That's what Freddy should have too. Up or Down on the d-pad for console users to swap between Snares and Pull.
-
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703794#Comment_3703794
So you want to nerf him even more?
So the change you want:
• Better teleport
• Slightly harder exiting out of the Dream
• Has to pull you in before he attacks.
With most of his traps being very meh, you would just make him worse imo.
No, that isn't my idea for the change lol you're just reading what you want to see lol
My change to Freddy is he is exactly as he is now. But you add everything I mentioned in my previous comment.
Dream Pull would be used as an alternate power to Dream Snare. Imagine how Clown Bottles work where you manually switch to them to use the one you want to.
I would also make his Snares add 1% more Hindered per Snare triggered
-
OG Freddy was the worst thing to happen to DBD lol
Why do you want to bring that back? The only thing good about OG Freddy was the Dream Pull ability. Slap that into current Freddy's kit with a few additions to his power; make his Projection usable on every generator regardless of whether it's completed, blocked or still in need of repairs. Make Red Paint Brush base kit. Make Projection take less time to recharge. And then that's a Freddy that is actually worth playing as.
-
@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703517#Comment_3703517
There aren't as many "safe" tiles as you think even against m1 killers especially when ping exists.
What are you talking about? Ping has nothing to do with whether a tile is safe or not, in the context of this topic.
What map rng do you get that you don't see pallet into pallet into window on the majority of maps? That argument is madness. This era of DBD has one of the safest tile spawn rngs that have existed in the games history.
@Sarrif said:
Only if survivors can fake vaults and other animations as well. Would be cool to drop off a ledge but actually hang onto the side.
That should only be a thing if every single tile in the game was a 50/50. As it is, there are too many safe windows and frequent safe RNG spawns of these windows to warrant Survivors being able to fake a vault with an actual animation. And hanging onto a ledge would look goofy as hell lol the Killer wouldn't even be able to do anything about that if they followed them out to drop off.
-
@LeFennecFox said:
I don't think we need ambiguity for killer actions especially when survivors need to react quickly mid chase
That's a very narrow argument. Considering how safe the majority of tiles layout + spawns are in this era of DBD. On top of that, Survivors can afford to make mistakes in a chase due to the nature of a 4v1. The Killer cannot. One mistake has the potential to lose the Killer the match.
-
@Chordyceps said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703367#Comment_3703367
I also like this idea. It does seem like a more straightforward way to adapt how it already works. I might argue that maybe great skill checks should award no tokens though, punishing players for hitting the more difficult skill checks feels a little bit backwards to me.
Yeah you could be right, there. It allows Survivors an additional counter, as it were, without needing to bring a specific item and add-on for it.
@moputopia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703367#Comment_3703367
I feel like getting tokens just from survivors hitting skillchecks is a bit much. Imagine doing a PGTW worth of damage to a gen just because survivors did their objective. It's still very luck dependant, but you would have to nerf the numbers a lot for this version I think.
Also I don't really like the premise of "bring this niche or even detrimental perk or item if you want to counter something strong on the other side".
Sorry if I'm too negative, it's an interesting idea! But I don't think it would be very healthy.
It definitely feels like this would be what the Devs would do to the perk at first. Just to see if this increases pick rate, and then observe the impact of the perk on gameplay.
Coz as is, Doctor is really the only Killer that gets used out of this perk. I've not tried it on any others because off the top of my head I cannot think of how to apply this perk to any others.
I dunno if I can agree with the angle you're coming from. Coz the current issue with gen regression is Survivors can still do gens while you're trying to get the perk criteria activated (eg hook the Survivor, or kick it and hope they leave it to regress for a while).
-
This is a good concept for a new perk. But a simpler and more logical change to Undone would be this:
Swap the failed repair and heal skill check requirement with a successful repair and heal skill check. In addition, a great skill check awards 6 tokens instead of the 3 gained from a good skill check.
This way there is more chance of the Killer actually getting value out of the perk since Survivors will most likely hit the skill checks that they get. And also, there's a Toolbox add-on that prevents skill checks being triggered while the Toolbox is being used, so if the perk does cause some players issues, they have a counter to it that they're in full control of.
-
@KoreWaPantsu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702127#Comment_3702127
It opens the gate of many more mindgames and create many possibilities for killers, but for survivors too seeking counter measures and the game becomes eventually more dynamic and fresh. I think this is the main reason.
Yeah, that's the main reason I like it too; giving Killers actual input in situations where they currently are just at the mercy of Survivors.
@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
This does not sound like a good idea. It sounds like it gives killers too much control over a situation with very little a survivor can do It's not like survivors would have the power to mindgame back. It would also lower the usefulness of several perks and addons.
Too much control? Killers currently have no control in the situations where they're forced to lock themselves into an animation. Giving them a tool to cancel and essentially bait actions would give them SOME control in situations where they had none.
What perks and add-ons would be made less useful with these changes?
-
@KoreWaPantsu said:
Tru3 had a wonderful idea and I absolutely dig it for many reasons.
Indeed, it's a really good one. What's your reasons for liking it?
-
@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701439#Comment_3701439
Well for one the average kill rate is 60%, which personally I think is too high anyways. Which is why I want to see some nerfs to camping and tunneling.
But even if one intends a 60% kill rate, we already have enough killers with a 60% kill rate or even higher, so that these killers don't need any further buffs.
Furthermore, while not as bad as some people make it out to be in my opinion, Solo queue can be pretty rough right now. They are in need of help if anything.
You really shouldn't use the kill rates as actual data to base your conclusions from. The Devs even say this themselves in that same kill-rate data post.
But, humouring it, if we do take that data seriously, Skull Merchant has the highest kill rate than all other Killers in the entire game. Skull Merchant! Nurse, Blight, Spirit aren't even up there lol The 3 strongest Killers don't even have the highest kills %. (They're not even in the top ten). The reason for that is most likely because everyone suicides on hook against her. So, a Killer which gets free kills, most likely every match, has the highest kill percentage, and the % isn't even amazing when you do the maths.
Solo queue definitely doesn't need buffing. The only things weak about solo queue is no comms and no loadout synergy. Nothing stops them from doing long chases, being glued to gens when thet aren't being chased, being smart when it comes to healing/not healing, getting saves etc. In other words, having good game sense and a higher skill level.
-
@Archol123 said:
How would this interact with background player? Does it only activate after the fake window is over? I don't think flashlights themselves are problematic, but perks in combination with them that allow you to make 30 m of distance and still get the save. The issue is as killer you can check the close by surroundings for a flashlight player, but when the guy can be across the map it becomes kind of problematic.
If it were a change that was gonna be implemented, testing would be required to see how it worked. But I personally would have Background Player be triggered even if the Killer fakes it. Coz that way, even if the Killer fakes it and then looks around to see if anyone got baited, Survivors that have rushed towards them with it could still remain hidden if there's LOS blockers. Plus, even if they didn't rush in because of the fake, the perk is active for, what is it, 10 seconds or something stupid like that? So they could easily anticipate a cancel, and then rush in when they see the aura or HUD icon change and still be in position for a save.
Yeah, on paper I would have BP be triggered even if it's cancelled.
I agree with you, flashlights aren't a problem at all, it's BP that makes them typically unavoidable, especially if a Survivor goes down in the open on purpose because they saw before hand there's a flashlight in play or they're a SWF.
-
@Deathstroke said:
Tru3 is not biased at all... Flaslight are already weakest item they don't need another nerf. Pallet saves are rare too and there is enough ways to counter them. Like mentioned that change would make pallets way too weak and most of them aren't that save anymore either. Most killers already have strong antiloop power they don't need more help.
You're kidding, right? Flashlights are a very strong item.
List all the counters to pallet saves that Killers can do.
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701439#Comment_3701439
Then they would waste valuable time when it comes to making distance after a pallet break. Also, how do you tell a new player that they need to wait for the specific frame the input becomes absolute? I don't think this would be a good idea. It's too much depth for survivors and too easy to use for killers.
You can already attempt to make Survivors hesitate and lose distance in a chase as is. This change would at least make the chases in those inhalers have an actual mini-game of sorts.
You can easily add this to the Killer's tutorial.
@SkeletalElite said:
Being able to fake breaking pallets would have zero effect on strong pallets like shack or pallets that are centrally located, which are must kicks and severely nerf weaker pallets that can already be outplayed by good mind games or zoning survivors toward the edge of the map before breaking them, allowing the survivor to gain very little distance off the pallet break. That makes this a bad idea, in my opinion.
It isn't just about pallet fake outs though. You're getting hung up on that one aspect. The fake out is for every action (minus vaulting).
It would be a massive improvement on interactions for both sides. You won't see it in every chase at every tile; you won't see it every time a Killer downs someone; but they will be used in those matches where it's needed. And in those matches, oh boy would they be needed.
-
@ad19970 said:
Not sure if I agree with this. Having to always guess whether a killer will actually kick a pallet or just fake it might make pallets too weak. Same goes for flashlight saves.
Right now the game is in no area where killers should receive more general buffs anyways.
Well, Survivors would need to learn the time/frame to look out for to know if the Killer is committing to the action. Killers can already bait with pallet breaks to make Survivors hesitate anyway, this is just a more sophisticated version of that, accessible to everyone, even entry level players.
What makes you say that Killers shouldn't receive buffs right now?
-
Flashbangs are problematic because of Background Player and the no collision exploit when the Killer is picking a Survivor up.
Anything else that they can do is down to Survivors practicing and learning the timing.
Albeit, light saves are brain-dead now due to the lenient window that Survivors have to get it. Before it used to be just as the animation finishes, much like with how Flashbangs at lockers work now. But yeah, it's not the perk that's a problem, it's the mechanics and synergies around them that make them crippling to go against.
But if Flashbangs are really bothering you, try using Lightborn; like @vol4r suggested. Although I don't think it's a skill issue on your part like they dismissively said.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700794#Comment_3700794
i already did in first post. the only add-on I omitted is purple drop-leg. the speed add-on. there is a lot of add-on that can provide good value in average match but like I said. he is not particular strong to take advantage of any of add-on's.
You just listed ones you think are good. And granted, yes, those ones are. But they can be better. There is clearly room for improvement there. The Exhaustion is split into two. The post-Mark Haste is fine as is. Philly could benefit from a buff to each aspect of stalking.
Did you look at the ideas for the buffs/changes or did you just right it off before glancing over them? Coz a few are just better versions or amalgamations of other never used or rarely used add-ons.
-
First off, I agree that Myers does need looking at.
Particularly his base stalk rate, it's atrocious. And also when it comes to making a change that allows the player to decrease their Tier level from II to I. This would grant the player some % of stalk back as well. They could even go one step further and make it so any Survivor hooked, grants back a % of the stalk used on them prior to that hook state.
Then we get to your argument about his Tombstone and Infinite. These need to go.
But, devils advocate, if they stay they need to be restricted to only being able to kill someone that has been hooked. Tombstone Piece, to compensatw for the restriction, would pause the power gauge while carrying a Survivor. That way you aren't wasting it trying to get value out of it. And with Judith's Tombstone, they should remove the speed decrease applied while in Tier III.
Infinite should require all four Survivors to be max stalked in order to reach Tier III.
In general, his add-ons do need an overhaul: three add-ons for stalk movement speed - useless. Should stack them all into one and make the % increase to stalking movement speed be 4.2m/s when there is no Survivor actively filling the power gauge. And move at 3.0m/s when there is a Survivor being stalked.
Auras when stalking is fine, but the duration should be a lot longer and there's three of these too. There should only be two. One for Tier I and one for Tier II.
They could go all out and make a lot more changes. But if they want to leave him as is but just buff the stuff I mentioned, that's fine by me.