_Onyx_
_Onyx_
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It does, but visually it doesn't.
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@solsol said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733154#Comment_3733154
Using a bug to gain an advantage is by definition exploiting which is very much bannable. Just submit a report and hopefully they get what they deserve.
Yeah it is, by definition. But I don't think anyone I was playing against who used the Potential Energy bug exploit got banned and there was literally someone in every lobby I played Killer as doing that. To the point I had to lobby dodge toolboxes to avoid it.
Until the Devs outright say "abusing X bug is bannable", there will be people that will use and abuse any and every advantageous bug in the game.
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Yeah, DS needs to be kill switched.
Just played a match where two of my teammates used DS and both got locked out of doing any actions and hitting struggle skill checks.
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I literally just versed a Blight who was abusing this bug. P100, double Ultra Rare Blight abusing a bug to give himself even more of an advantage. So dumb. People are gonna abuse the hell out of this bug. No reason for them not to at this point since the Devs haven't said it's bannable yet
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Gotta say, I have noticed that the Wesker's I've versed recently have been narrowly missing Survivors in situations that would have been a definite hit.
I dunno if it is a shadow-nerf, a bug or what. But you're right, raising awareness of it would definitely be the way to go about finding out what is going on with Wesker right now.
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My changes to Badham would be to remove the Shack from all variations. And then shrink it by removing the tiles that the shack previously took up.
A smaller map with one less strong tile to get dragged to would definitely improve the gameplay of the map, for starters. And in addition to that, it would also make basement a permanent spawn inside the main building, allowing Killers to always be able to get a hook if a Survivor goes down in the boiler room. As opposed to now, being forced to open the building up, making it harder for you to win a chase there later on, just to be able to hook them.
I would also make the white picket fence outside of the main building smaller.
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@Gmoore23 said:
This is an incredible idea and I sincerely hope someone at BHVR sees this. Plus…
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726091#Comment_3726091
The idea of a charity pack is kind of perfect (and they could do it for even more than just this, but I think this would be a great start).
Definitely, doing it once would open up the door for all kinds of awesome in-game charity support:)
@CohhCarnage said:
That is a pretty amazing idea a charity pack with the ribbon charm , survivor outfit , banner and badge. I would love to see that as well. I am very dedicated to making this happen you guys.
Yeah, an outfit would be great too! Maybe a pink shirt with the ribbon design on it. I'm glad you made this post. It wasn't something I ever thought about DBD doing, really. But now it's been tossed out there, we definitely need it to happen.
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Definitely would love this to be a thing that happens :)
They should sell it as a charity pack where you get a Killer & Survivor Charm, a Badge and a Banner.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725486#Comment_3725486
In my opinion it wouldn't change much, but it would make Clown feel much better to play as. Dead By Daylight doesn't need to be sweaty game where every Killer needs thousands hours of experience on certain Killers. Let's give Killers some nice buffs that will help beginners or weaker players. I main Bubba since 2019 and I don't have a problem that they tremendously decreased Tantrum duration, Tokens are easier to press, and collisions are not that bad. I just understand it's not only me in the game and there are other players - less experienced.
I see your point, and I partly agree since I view it as both valid and not valid at the same time (in terms of when Clown is in the conversation). With Bubba's latest buffs, he definitely needed them. Insanely good Bubba's had to use his duration and speed add-ons (or a combination of either, depending on preferences) to know their power was a constant threat. The changes making it so the chainsaw is more of a threat at base, isn't gonna change that non-Bubba mains will still have to rely on an M1 here and there to get the pressure they need.
With Clown, his power always has potential to get a down, regardless of whether you are a main or not. So treating his buffs the same as Bubba would put Clown in a state where at the lower levels he dominates consistently and at higher levels where the Clown mains are, even the good loopers are gonna be having a miserable time vs a Clown who knows they can now put in minimal effort for very good results.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725432#Comment_3725432
Give him even 2 times better anti loop and he will not be A tier. Killers without mobility or others advantages won't be too opressive.
It's not about his place in a Tier list. It's about the general experience of his gameplay. Atm Clown players at a high level need to minimise their mistakes regularly. That means not wasting bottles above all else. The longer a chase goes on for, and the more Survivors can keep him occupied on them, the more likely Clown will be to lose.
Buffing the stuff that is the weaker part of his kit: his reload time, and movement speed while reloading would make it easier for Clown to feel like they can make more mistakes and not really be that impacted by it.
The base kit changes you made with the add-on buffs, on the whole, would allow Clown to be constantly on a Survivor once he's started a chase and end those chases even quicker. Even if the changes still kept him at B Tier like he currently is. They would be too much. The experience going against him would be lousy, since you wouldn't be able to punish Clown or capitalise on his mistakes often. And playing as him would feel brain-dead. I don't wanna play a game where simply equipping something makes it so I have the easiest time possible. Clown needs to have skill to his kit, and Clown needs to have negatives in order to allow proper gameplay to occur in his matches.
He can already force Survivors to interact with him, since pre-dropping is heavily punishable by Invigoration, and greeding pallets is punishable by Intoxication. Forcing interaction when you know you're gonna win said chase quickly would be a miserable time for both sides. Like I said in my original reply, buff the wrong things and Clown becomes a killing machine. There needs to be negatives to his kit in order for compelling and interesting gameplay :)
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@ays12151 said:
Spirit Of Hartshorn - It doesn't have penalty and let's increase the speed from 20% to 25%.
To be fair - 20% of increased lunge Attack wouldn't be crazy. Coup The Grace has 80% and when Clown runs it - it isn't very hated from Survivor POV.
Nobody runs Add-On to increased move speed while reloading, so I would implement it base kit (at least some part of it).
I understand your words, you probably has thousands of hours on him so your suggestions would be better.
Was this reply for me? You never tagged it but the responses seem like they were to what I said lol
The Fingerless Gloves don't really have a negative, reducing the throw arc makes it so Clowns can't aim high with the bottle, but that only really affects outdoor maps that he's already really good on anyway. So having two add-ons for the same thing wouldn't be worth it.
Coup is a crazy good perk on Clown. There's a reason why a tactic to go against Clown in any tile is now to have huge balls and just never drop the pallet, and if he gets close camp it until he goes for an attack. Coup makes invigoration that much stronger, so having an add-on that makes Coup 100% instead of 80% and 20% bigger without it is a crazy strong add-on. Clown has the best 1v1 in the game out of all M1 Killers. He has since his release, imo, the Antidote made him an extra level above the rest. So a bigger lunge for an add-on would be a meta choice.
I wouldn't say nobody uses the reload movement speed add-on. It has it's uses. If you knew you were going to an indoor map, it'd definitely be a good choice. The best way to use it is: when you plan on reloading, you throw an Antidote and then start to reload, you'll be zooming along, losing minimal distance. It's not the best selection, because minimising Clown's weakness of having to reload and subsequently losing ground in a chase or while navigating the map, doesn't really compare to boosting Clown's 1v1 with Intoxication/Hindered or Invigoration/Haste add-ons. Doesn't mean it's a bad choice though. Making him faster at base kit, like you suggested would be one of those changes that pushes Clown into that oppressive state he could be by buffing the wrong things.
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Use Boil Over or have your SWF buddies use Breakout.
The carry aspect of the game is tedious as it is anyway, so if Survivors could wriggle off almost every time they got carried, everyone would slug from the get go.
I think if anything, the Killer's pick up speed should be buffed. So far, there's only one perk that affects this part of the gameplay 'Fire Up'. And that perk is outclassed by everything else that does anything remotely similar to what buffs it offers.
Sabotage is being buffed next patch, if you didn't know. So most likely we'll be seeing people wriggling off shoulders as common place then anyway.
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That would be awesome as a modifier.
But personally, when they finally rework the Backwater Swamp maps, they should add water to certain parts of it. They don't even need to be parts that can be interacted with, they could just be bodies of water that have low invisible walls around them. Making them essentially obstacles on the map.
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You either leave when you suspect they have Blood Warden, or you do everything possible to stop that Survivor being hooked. Blood Warden was pretty much garbage before the EGC, coz only a few Killers could get value from it. Now the EGC exists, it's a perk that allows any Killer to get more kills in the dying moments of a match.
The argument shouldn't be to pause the EGC, it should be to prevent exit gates from having their progress paused. Leaving an exit gate with progress on it, but not open, should trigger a regression countdown. If a Survivor doesn't interact with the exit gate lever within that timer, then the lever sparks out and resets to 0%. It would essentially be a type of 'dead man's switch'. The lever needs to be held for it to open the exit gate. But once it's open, the Entity latches around the exit gate frame and holds it open until the Trial ends.
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Yep, of course it is.
Survivors have no negatives at base kit. Aside from being vulnerable when injured if they're out positioned. Perks plaster fix this, hence why everyone uses some variation of it.
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Okay, so I'm a Clown main, and I am always very skeptical about Clown ideas. Clown is a Killer that you have to be very careful with what you do to him. A nerf or buff to the incorrect thing and he either becomes a laughing stock or an absolute killing machine.
Base Kit Changes:
Reload movement speed is fine as it is, increases being attached to add-ons is perfect because Clown needs to have some sort of delay when over using his power (whether that's spamming and misusing the bottles, or getting full value out of them). If Clown can keep better tabs on a Survivor (when he's trying to zone them) even when his power is temporarily disabled, they'll have a horrible time actually trying to outplay him. Him being incredibly slow while reloading is needed.
Years ago, a decrease to to reload time would have been desired. Now that he has 6 bottles, taking 3 seconds to reload is fine. You can do so much with 6 bottles that it's actually nuts how much pressure Clown can maintain before needing to consume his own time by reloading.
Kerosene Can - Exhausted was removed from Clowns add-ons for good reason. His 1v1 is that good, that if you add Exhausted to his kit, A) it would be used on every Clown as a base kit add-on. B) it would make any alternative outplay potential completely useless. Especially since the Antidote exists now making pre-dropping an unsafe tactic.
Bottle Of Chloroform - This is a decent change, I think a lot of Killer add-ons that separate effects that do the same thing should be merged.
Smelly Inner Soles - A Haste effect on a Killer that has access to Haste already is pointless. Especially with the added criteria of a direct toss.
Spirit Of Hartshorn - This is what Fingerless Parade Gloves do, but worse. This could be changed to make it so the Antidote gas cloud activates instantly on a direct bottle toss. And Survivors hit directly by an Antidote bottle can no longer become invigorated.
Sulphuric Acid Vial - The increased lunge range would make Clown uncounterable. But the break action speed increase while invigorated is actually a really good affect. Since this makes efficient Clowns even more efficient.
Garnish Make-Up Kit - The addition of increased vault speed is nice, and actually makes sense (what with his unique perk Bamboozle) But I would actually make this a change to the 'Party Bottle'. Party Bottle is a worthless add-on, it needs a change, and this would be perfect for it.
I am curious, since I gave criticism and my opinion to your ideas, what was your reasoning for all those change ideas?
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It protects the item you're holding when you die.
Also, if you escape (or in this case die) with an item you didn't bring in, it goes into your inventory, but your loadout resets to what it was when you loaded into that match. Check your inventory, it'll be there.
Edit: Although, firecrackers are one use items, if that's the item you lost then yeah, White Wards don't protect those if you use them in the Trial.
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Small nerfs, yeah. Nothing drastic. If you do too much to her you take away what's unique about her or risk making her even less popular to play. The main reason she only needs a small nerf is because there's existing counterplay to her power, but the problem arises where Nurse gets access to her power so frequently that successful counterplay to her Blink doesn't reward the Survivor with much room to evade or elude. Her Blinks recharge while she is enduring the fatigue. So by the time she is recovered she essentially has her full power back right away. How many times have good players predicted a Nurse or manipulated their movement to put obstacles in between them and the Nurse's attack. Only to be hit 4 seconds later, even though they made a solid amount of distance from that good outplay. Here is what I would do to her power:
- Blink recharge time is increased to 5 seconds, per token.
- Blink tokens do not begin recharging until fatigue duration has expired.
- Nurse's fatigue duration is decreased to 1.3 seconds. Consuming more than one Blink token in one instance does not increase the duration of fatigue.
- Nurse must wait for all Blink tokens to be recharged before Nurse can perform a Blink.
- When all Blink tokens are consumed, Nurse's movement speed is increased to 4.2m/s until all Blink tokens are recharged.
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@Archol123 said:
Minors are part of the community of an 18+ rated game… That really is not an argument, we don't take into account people that are legally not allowed to even play the game.
Walking back and forth on a downed person is very far off from that, and before people on the forums brought this up I never even considered this to be the case, not even with a lot of imagination and I still think it is very far fetched. The origin of t-bagging is sexual and ghostface or pig can for example t-bag a downed survivor, you want to make that banable as well? Considering you are fine with survivors doing that to the killer? I mean sure the killer is not lying on the ground, but at least that term/behaviour has clearly such origins despite not being performed on top of the downed survivor, so what is the difference that one is fine and the other one is not?
I think both are completely fine, there is no animation that resembles anything like that, is just a goofy bm move and if you remove it people will come up with the next thing to be immature and petty towards each other. I really don't think this is problematic at all… Teabagging and this w s stuff are both so far away from their origin (or in the w s case the origin people seem to think it has…) that if you don't know it you would not even think about it… Besides is the point where we basically have an allowed bahaviour, walking over downed survivors, that is only supposed to be bannable based on ill itent? Would be a little bit weird wouldn't it?
I agree with this completely. "Far fetched" is the perfect phrase to some up peoples offense to this BMing.
The first time I saw the original iteration of this was a Demogorgon, portal spamming against (I think it was Skermz). Every other Killer w/s spamming doesn't even come close to this. And even the Demogorgon one can be avoided because it has to animation spam, you can crawl away while they set up for it.
But yeah, I agree with you. This shouldn't really be an issue. It just seems like people wanting to be offended and someone rallied their viewers to mass protest.
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@aewi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719234#Comment_3719234
"In those situations where someone does get clipped and reported for trying to get the prompt before the Survivor crawls too far into the pallet will result in a ban." There you go again….. It's. Obvious. When. The. Killer. Is. Looking. For. A. Survivor. On. The. Ground. it's honestly borderline cruel to use this whataboutism for this topic for a scenario that just won't happen (false bans for a killer just looking around for a survivor). It's one thing to be against bans for the subject matter but this false ban for a killer just looking around for a survivor argument feels pretty bad faith.
No it isn't cruel. It's necessary. Because when you're talking about (probably what is the only 'fix' for it) you do need to consider everything in order to determine if it's worth making it a bannable offense. So 'whataboutisms', and any other argument made (within logical reason of course), are all valid.
You're also only fixating on that one point I made too. Because I'm against this stance on every aspect of it.
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@aewi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719218#Comment_3719218
"If this does become a bannable behaviour, then people are gonna be banned for no good reason a lot of the time. There's a bug in the game where Survivors teleport after being downed. If the Killer is adjusting their position to get the prompt and it's misconstrued, then a lot of innocent players will get banned. I've literally said out loud (as if the Survivor can hear me) "I promise I wasn't f***ing you just now, buggy prompts!"
Look, I get the concern, but bad actors are normally very obvious when they do this. I think most people can tell when a killer is just clueless rather than being a weirdo. It's normally the repetitiveness of the action that gives it away. And let's be real, if it were to become a bannable offense - a lot of people would stop, because they don't want to risk their accounts. Idk. It seems like a positive to me.It's not always clear. I've thought a Pig was teabagging me but after the match they clarified it was a fat thumb when trying to put a RBT on.
In those situations where someone does get clipped and reported for trying to get the prompt before the Survivor crawls too far into the pallet will result in a ban. If they fix that "bug" then yeah, if they made it bannable, I'd be sad to see it go because some player do need a little griefing back after their behaviour initiating it, but I wouldn't complain. I'd just roll with it. But while that bug exists, this behaviour cannot be made bannable.
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Why is this such a hot topic all of a sudden??? -- Who are you watching that has this opinion that people have been spamming on the forums (and god knows where else)?
I think it's fine. If a Survivor has been griefing the Killer all game, they should be able to do stuff that griefs them back. And if the Killer is the instigator, then Survivors have a means to grief back too.
If this does become a bannable behaviour, then people are gonna be banned for no good reason a lot of the time. There's a bug in the game where Survivors teleport after being downed. If the Killer is adjusting their position to get the prompt and it's misconstrued, then a lot of innocent players will get banned. I've literally said out loud (as if the Survivor can hear me) "I promise I wasn't f***ing you just now, buggy prompts!"
I personally also find that behaviour towards a slugged Survivor funny. Gamers will always find a way to grief opponents with in game mechanics.
I can see your angle when it comes to sexual abuse victims, for both genders, coz remember, that stuff isn't exclusive to women. But as it is, it isn't a graphic animation. It's literally just stepping on them and treading their feet up and down their back, butt and legs.
When it comes to the kids play this game argument, this game is age rated high enough that if kids are playing it, they are of age where they have had a sexual education, and/or their parents consented for them to play a game not age appropriate for them. Also, I acknowledge DBD is not a sexual game, nor does it promote sexual content, it does however exist in the horror genre. The horror genre is accepting of all despicable acts, in order to evoke feelings of sorrow, fear, contempt, despair, anger etc.
Comparing this "minority-felt, offensive behaviour" to flashlight macro, which is an audio and visual spam that could cause hearing or vision issues to people susceptible to that kind thing, is not even remotely accurate.
I will state again, that I understand where this argument is coming from. I just don't agree with it. I am very curious who originated this uproar and rally though. What streamer or Youtuber was it that started it? I wanna see their original opinions on it, so I can best judge for myself if it should be removed or not. If they're able to articulate their points well that is, coz a lot of community members of this game simply cannot do that with their arguments.
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Lara Croft ain't a bad guess to be honest. What with the trilogy remaster happening recently.
Rick Grimes is also a good guess too from @tenoresax . Maybe even Daryl Dixon. Since Norman Reedus has used his likeness and voice elsewhere before.
Ellie from The Last Of Us, is my guess though!
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Dead Hard is only OP, or to phrase it more accurately, 'uncounterable' in situations where the Survivor has enough distance on the Killer. Where if they do not go for a lunge, the Survivor makes it to a pallet of vault. It's uncounertable in that regard because the Survivor has the freedom to use it perfectly and the Killer cannot avoid it.
In general, Dead Hard is the most balanced it's been in its existence.
The only thing OP about Survivor perks at the moment is Background Player, and the combination of Buckle Up+For The People.
Background Player is getting adjusted, but will sadly stay OP ('uncounterable') with the new update.
Buckle Up is being changed, and will only be OP ('uncounterable') in certain situations where the designated FTP Survivor has Made For This with it.
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Yeah I agree, the Exhausted buff just completely negates the speed bonus nerf.
At least with the current one, if BP gets triggered and they grasp escape successfully, then 40 seconds of Exhausted means that you can get a free pick up if you get another down during that time.
The new one will just make it impossible for a Killer to get a hook if Survivors keep putting themselves in favourable situations:
- Purposefully going down under a pallet
- Going down in an open area
- Forcing a Pallet/Vault grab
- (If Flashbang is in play)
- Jumping into a locker
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The changes to Nurse don't need to be convoluted at all. Just do this:
- Nurse must recharge all of her Blink tokens in order to perform a Blink.
- Blink tokens only start to recharge when the fatigue, or successful attack animation has finished.
- Blink tokens take 3 seconds to recharge.
- When all Blinks have been performed, Nurse's movement speed is increased to 4.2m/s until all Blinks are recharged.
Part of Nurse's strength comes from her ability to constantly keep pressuring a Survivor, even after the Survivor does well to evade a Blink attack. If she was a basic movement Killer, like Blight or Hillbilly, it wouldn't be so bad for Survivors, but because she ignores all game physics, it will often feel that outplaying her in that instance offers little to no rewards. Making it so she cannot Blink until all her tokens are charged will allow Survivors to feel a little bit of reprieve and allow them to try to evade and elude her before she Blinks and lands on them again to reapply pressure. Delaying the Blink recharge until she is back in full control is also in line with this point.
Increasing her movement speed to 4.2m/s when she is recharging all her Blinks is to compensate for the fact it will take 6 seconds (or 9 with the Ultra Rare add-ons for 3 Blinks). The compensation is due to it being likely that a Survivor that has lots of obstacles or walls to move between, or the Nurse being behind a wall or having no access to 'Line Of Sight' will potentially end up with healthy Survivors evading her. Being able to have a speed that is slightly faster than a Survivor in those moments will allow her to sometimes catch glimpses of them while waiting for her Blinks to recharge.
The movement speed increase is also to allow the Nurse to be able to capitalise on a Survivors over commitment to evading her Blink in dead areas of the map. (Similar to how Wesker can have that option available to zone a Survivor into trapping themself and taking a health state when the attempt to re-enter the tiles near them, even if they 'outplayed' the Virulent Bound in that instance). Being 3.8m/s while having no power for 6 seconds would feel grueling to play as, and often lead to Survivors being 'too well rewarded' for utilising clunky hit boxes or deceptively large collisions when Nurse is Blinking.
Ultimately, Nurse is the most unique Killer on the roster, and her strength needn't be so dwarfing when compared to others. But doing too much to her to bring her roughly in line with others would ruin her uniqueness and potentially make her even harder to pick up and learn than she already is.
Simply providing room for satisfying interaction with her power is a great direction to go in with her. The less she dwarfs the roster in terms of strength application, the closer we can get to finally seeing just how good or bad some perks are, when Nurse isn't 'abusing' them, or being the only Killer that gets real value from them.
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If you're gonna do it, you're gonna struggle on the majority of maps. Any time a Survivor gets distance in a chase you are fighting an uphill battle. The only things going for you are the Omnidirectional Lullaby + small Terror Radius, and the fact Survivors will probably still convince themselves you'll throw a hatchet, so they may greed loops giving you free hits.
The add-ons you should use for this is: Iridescent Hatchet + Soldier's Putter. Throw the 1 Hatchet at the floor or wall from spawn and you'll be 4.6m/s for the rest of the Trial.
From there, perk choice is all up to you and your preference.
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Were they just slugging you? Or was it their play style to down and never hook anyone until they had all 4 down?
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That The Game Evil Incarnate play style seems legit. But one I found that is universal to the majority of maps, maybe even all maps, is this:
- Trail Of Torment
- Deadlock
- Tinkerer
- Corrupt Intervention
The idea behind it is you use the 2mins of Corrupt to gain as much Evil as possible. Then when Tinkerer activates, you go to the generator and scare the Survivor(s) off it, Stalking them in the process. Then when another generator triggers Tinkerer, you wait a few seconds before kicking the first Tinkerer generator, Trail Of Torment gets activated, then Deadlock blocks it. Meaning you have a guaranteed 30 seconds of Undetectable in Tier 3 with the potential to kill people. This can be recycled over and over if Survivors go to the Trail gen to deactivate it.
You can also replace Corrupt Intervention with a second Undetectable perk, maybe Unforseen, in order to have access to more stealth and not be solely reliable on Survivors doing their objectives to be stealthy, since some will get scared and not actually do anything unless they see someone being chased on the HUD.
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I made a post about this being a nerf that may be needed to it in the future. Coz one thing I predicted when I saw in ptb and made my post about it, and have since experienced first hand, and seen in streams etc, is players purposefully abusing intelligent Killers into chasing them down into basement, wasting as much time as possible knowing that if they get hooked it's a free unhook, and if they get carried out of basement, they can wriggle off or waste even more time from the Killer even if they make it to a surface hook.
In addition, there is lots of perks that can be synergised with it to make this troll/cheesy play style even more obnoxious.
I love that Wicked can be used in a 'hero' play style, where you can rescue and trade in basement to give your team a fighting chance again, while saving yourself in the process, maintaining that reclaimed momentum. But there is a lot more ways it can be used to cheese situations, which sucks.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713949#Comment_3713949
That would basically punish people for playing with friends, which is not a good thing.
My idea would basically be to complete bridge the information gap of solo and swf by whatever mechanic necessary, ideally with voice chat, text chat, a chat wheel and a ping system, so you can communicate everything. Maybe even additional stuff for the HUD, for example progress on totems being cleansed or who heals who, additional info about the perks your teammates have and so on. And from that point onwards I would probably buff killer in general to keep up with that information gap. No clue what to do with killers like Trapper or Hag, but in general almost every killer would need to get buffed by quite a bit.
The problem is it would need a testing period to figure out how many buffs are needed for killers to keep up with the new level of soloq. But overall I think it would lead to a more balanced experience.
It's not a punishment, it's a scale counterweight. SWF do everything much faster than solo, so you bring them down to the average speed of a solo and then voila, balanced. They'd still have a huge advantage against all Killers from Comms and build synergy alone.
I think that's the issue with buffing Solo, so much more about the game needs to change. I like your stance with it. But nerfing SWF is so much more simpler. It'll never happen though, you just know it.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713897#Comment_3713897
Well I disagree on that, I think solo and swf should be of equal strength and the game balanced around that.
What I'd ideally like to see is:
- SWF nerfed so their repair, and maybe heal action is debuffed.
And that's about it really. The 'problem' with solo queue is the unpredictable teammates you get paired with. I quotation mark it, because it isn't a problem, it's a downside, for sure. But there are no problems with solo queue that I see.
What would your DBD look like if they're both equal strength and the game is balanced around that?
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Victor cannot be left idle within a certain distance of the Hatch. What was stopping you from doing the last 2 gens and putting the pressure on the Twins player to locate you?
Coz once the gates are powered, the Twins will have to either close the Hatch as Charlotte to minimise your options; or go to the gate they think you'll go to first. If they do the first one you have time to open it before they send Victor after you. Or the second option leaves the Hatch available for you for you to try for as well. And like I said, Victor cannot be left on the Hatch, meaning if they tried blocking it again, you could sneak away and try for a gate.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713715#Comment_3713715
If it is that vague for sure... But the statement a information gap exists, that is obviously true does not need much more explanation to why it is a bad thing does it?
Of course an info gap exists. But not much of one as it is. The Survivor HUD is littered with match intel. Of course you aren't gonna know exacts, because you aren't on Comms. But I see that as a good thing. Why should you know everything (or pretty much everything) that's happening in a match where you're playing on a team vs someone who is alone? SWF is busted, it always has been. I don't wanna see solo queue become that too
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@Onako said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713694#Comment_3713694
Well, you already pointed out the big problem here. Solo queue players have to sacrifice 1-2 perk slots just for the game to be playable as a team which SWF groups do not have to, since they get that information about voice coms. Those perk slots could be used for way better perks.
Let's turn it around and say killers would suddenly have to sacrifice one of their perk slots for hook auras to be revealed. Y'all would be peeing your pants and the forum would be on fire.
I don't see it as a problem. I think DBD is the only game where I've heard "I wish me playing by myself had the same tools as those with their friends."
Of course Comms are gonna give you an advantage, but the argument of "I have to sacrifice valuable perks in order to get the same effect" isn't a good one. You are never gonna recreate the same experience as SWF Comms from perks. You can use 1 or 2 like you said to give you the necessary intel that you wouldn't normally have. And that shouldn't hurt your gameplay, coz even if you only had 2 second chances/anti-momentum perks in your loadout, the intel you've got should be able to help you stay in chase, or evade the Killer outright.
Solo needs to stay weaker than SWF, because it will never be its equal. And SWF needs to be weaker than it currently is.
When it comes to your argument trying to flip the script, it's a 4v1. If I have to go into detail on that then it's a futile conversation.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713711#Comment_3713711
It is really not people's job on the forum to work out all the specific or direction to go with ideas like that, but give a general direction or tell what is good or bad... So just saying that the existing information gap between swf and solo needs to be closed and then balance the game around it afterwards should be enough. You can argue around that and explain why it should happen. You don't need to come up with concrete numbers and what not... Or killer specific changes...
For example when they asked about feedback for the maps, nobody was required to draw a picture of how the maps should look like, but just tell in general what is good or bad. Ofc you can as well go into more detail, but that will always be a long text that most people won't read.
A point, yeah. But at the same time, simply saying "buff solo by giving us more intel" with nothing else on the "and this would need looking at too." Is the problem with vague suggestions.
Giving someone welcomed criticism or advice without any helpful suggestions is never as helpful as if they were to give advice or suggestions.
As it is, I'd hate the idea of solo buffs, because there's not any transparency on the Devs front about "yeah we're considering these changes to solo. But this would also impact Killer gameplay so we're looking at that too." With Dev transparency, I'd look at all these ideas and suggestions people come up with in a less cynical way. But as is, any suggestions will most likely be met with "use perks or items to help yourself."
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713705#Comment_3713705
Depends if you buff killers accordingly or not... Obviously you would need to change things but at least you wouldnt have two groups of players that have different tools at their hand and one group would not feel like they are at a disadvantage currently.
The conversation is very rarely a full on brainstorm about changes. It's normally a simple idea for buffing Solo, with no real substance about how to make those changes work in the grand scheme of things to make the game better on the whole.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713694#Comment_3713694
Which still puts solo survivors at a disadvantage, considering they now have 3 perk slots left, whereas people that are in comes don't need those perks and probably still have more information... That's the whole point why people complain about the information gap...
Let's solo queue gets buffed to the point they have all the info via the UI and HUD that a SWF gets simply by being on Comms, what state do you think the big picture of the game will look like then?
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Intel perks exist. It's the players problem if they're playing solo and not using 'awareness' perks like Bond, Kindred, Circle Of Healing etc.
If everyone wants to use selfish full meta when playing with randoms, that's on them, they're robbing themself of intel.
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@epi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673769#Comment_3673769
I have no issues with his Static Blast, I'm talking more about his Shock Therapy. I just feel he needs a little bit longer cooldown on that. Cause at this level it's already become a spamming issue.
You mentioned his Static Blast in the post, so I replied to all of what you said.
I also replied to to your Shock Therapy opinion too. When you say Doctor is just about spamming his power, do you mean it literally or do you mean it in the sense of "in a loop, you shock whenever they start approaching a window or pallet?" Coz if it's the second one, there is counterplay to that. The Survivor can peel away from the loop when the Doctor isn't that close in the loop when he charged the Shock. Or hesitate their movement to make the Shock miss. They can also pre-drop a pallet before the Shock happens in order to make a tile safer for that instance against Doctor.
If his Shock Therapy was OP, then they wouldn't have buffed it. Now it's the way everyone playing him wanted it to be, faster activation and bigger range. Now they can use other add-ons instead of the same 2 over and over.
What kind of cooldown do you have in mind for it anyway?
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@raben84 said:
Ultimate Weapon was the best ability to locate survivors and now it is useless,
In addition, there is another ability that detects survivors near the lockers at 8 meters.I have been playing as an assassin for a while and without Ultimate Weapon it is almost impossible to locate those survivors who are hiding throughout the game, this way it is very difficult to play as an assassin and I personally no longer feel like playing....
I please ask the DBD team to restore Ultimate Weapon as it was at the beginning, for once think about the assassin players and the increasingly difficult role this role has.
Thank you so much
Ultimate Weapon is now best used when camping a hook. Can't locate the ultra stealthy Survivor sneaking in? Make them scream and turn that safe unhook into a trade or scare them away. Or use it on Wesker or Calm-stacked Doctor. Get full use out of that Blindness status.
It's sad really, the old Ultimate Weapon was such a good perk. It allowed Killers to be constantly active in the match. Down time is what loses Killers matches, Ultimate Weapon was perfect for maintaining pressure. All they had to do to it was nerf the cooldown.
I also find it so cringe that the majority of people who wanted Ultimate Weapon nerfed are also the people who wanted DS buffed. Talk about hypocrisy: "Killers are not allowed strong momentum perks like this! But Devs, give me back the stronger version of the best anti-momentum perk in the game. Please and thank you."
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Such a strange one.
People get nostalgic like this about all the wrong things in DBD. And also, stop with the "Us vs Them" phrasings.
The variety you're after, comes in the form of Flashbangs and Firecrackers. And since you think they're dull with no versatility, let me point out that Flashlights aren't just for blinding the Killer, they're also a way of communicating to other players. For what they do in game, mechanically, the only thing in need of changing is reverting the old timings. But I have a feeling they always wanted it to be piss-easy; and now Flashbangs exist, the lenient timing works well so you haven't gotta be perfect when throwing it.
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It's heavily restricted by being a Basic Attack only perk. Why do you think it needs nerfing?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712020#Comment_3712020
I really enjoy these attempts to force people to play.
Can't wait for them to install key trackers to make sure you're really trying your best!
YOU WILL BE FORCED TO SWEAT AT MAXIMUM OUTPUT OR ELSE YOU RISK A BAN! PLEASE DO NOT RESIST!
Instead of addressing the why, let's just address the symptoms, like always. Surely that'll work this time.
Well no, because they can be less strict with the DC penalty too. The time outs haven't got to be from 0-100 like they are now.
The reason for negative behaviours in DBD is because the player base are encouraged to play in ways that the opponents deem as dull. Tunneling and camping strategically in order to efficiently kill the Survivors -- instead of being encouraged to go for chases and multiple hooks. Survivors encouraged to sit on gens all game and then escape -- instead of being encouraged to be altruistic to your teammates in addition to helping yourself and your team in escaping.
It isn't lost on me how awful the condition of DBD is, and that the Devs are responsible for it. But the conversation is about entitlement on the Survivors side of things. Hence why everything I've said has been centered around that.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711468#Comment_3711468
I see plenty of Killers DCing when things don't go their way, but the game is currently balanced around Killers to win the majority of the time. I played a set of matches with 2 friends (3-man SWF), and in 8 matches, we only escaped in 1. That is a 12.5% escape rate, and a 87.5% kill rate. I can get roughly the same numbers regularly as Killer, so the game is currently balanced around 60%K/40%E, but the reality (of mine, and likely many other people's) is closer to 85%K/15%E.
Not only that, but a Killer quitting has a significantly different impact on the match. A Killer quitting hard ends the match, or opening the gates sets a 2 minute timer to leave. A Survivor quitting makes 3 other players forced to play out a (likely) doomed match, and with a Killer (often) still sweating their butt off since it would be embarrassing to lose to a 3v1.
The weaker Killer players are busy playing against sub-100hr babies, and everyone else is (seemingly) getting sweatlords. The weaker Killers are perfectly fine, as I have no problem winning consistently as Ghosty/Myers/Clown/Trapper/Legion and I don't even use both PR and Pop at the same time on those Killers (one or the other). There is only 1 Survivor perk that can actually counter sweatlords, and it is a minor inconvenience (DS).
As far as entitled behavior, that is shared by the entire playerbase, and not limited to Survivor only. I was winning easily (as Killer) back during Rank-based matchmaking, so we needed to change to MMR to appease the entitled whiners. I was winning easily (as Killer) back with 80s gens, but we still needed to give whiners 10 extra seconds per gen. I was winning easily (as Killer) during the CoB/OC/Eruption 'monkey with a spacebar can win' era and I didn't even use those perks, but the whiners were given those free win perks. I was winning easily (as Killer) before nearly all maps got massacred and made significantly more Killer-sided (farm teepee pallet anyone?) to appease the whiners. Most major changes are making Killer more free to win, and nothing to help the Survivor QoL experience. Nothing to make teammates not throw for tomes. Nothing to ban sweatlord Killer picks. Nothing to mitigate sweatlord behaviors like bleeding out for the 4k. Nothing to avoid a scumbag Killer that was reported for breaking the rules, then you still get them in the very next match. I can completely understand any Survivor player who goes, 'fudge it, if I don't get a fun match I'm going next', because there has been nothing to make matches fun for Survivor other than another roll of the dice. Killer players are just as entitled as Survivor players, but they are catered to with free wins and QoL. If kill rates were 50-50, then Killers would be doing the exact same as Survivors currently are under the current realistic 80-20 (IME playing as both sides).
The game is currently designed such that if you think you are going to lose as Survivor, you are better off attempting Kobe's (for a lucky turn-around to potentially shift the balance back in your favor), or giving up on 2nd stage (since you can simply roll another match and hope for the better). That is the fault of the designers of the game, in that unhealthy behaviors are the most rewarded. It is on the design team to make healthy actions/behaviors/activities the best choice. Water flows in the path of least resistance, and BHVR created a massive canyon that causes Survivors to have near no chance of climbing out of this pit of desperation, thus they flow down this current 'go next' mindset.This is where player experience shapes opinions too. My experience, Killers that have no momentum and are struggling to get even one hook by the time there is 1 gen left or the exit gates are powered will still plug away because they know that an endgame hook could get them a kill, or more, depending on how altruistic and cocky the Survivors get.
You're right about negative behaviour being 'allowed' by the Devs. I would personally remove the "auto-sacrifice" from not attempting 2 consecutive skill checks. If you wanna leave, then DC and get timed out. I would make it so missing or not attempting the struggle skill check simply just shaves the current amount of seconds off the timer (I think it's 10), so you have to miss all 6 if you want out that way.
I wouldn't say the game is designed for Survivors to feel like they should have a "I want out" attitude. That's the players being enabled with that attitude by one another. "Oh you're against Skull Merchant? Yeah I can see why you'd quit." "Slugged by Twins? Makes sense." "The Killer got your teammates down back to back in less than 10 seconds? Yeah you may as well write off the match." It's just little babies enabling little babies with validation. It's so annoying to see. Been doing it for so long that it's become a habit and they won't hear it any other way that what they're doing is crappy and childish.
It's not a healthy state for the community to be in, and the Devs need to start being that strict parent that forces this habit to stop.
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@Clee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711721#Comment_3711721
But, aren't we all entitled to play the game how we see fit. Just by purchasing this game, you are now entitled to play it however you want within the rules. And Going next is within the rules of the game. Some things are less than fun, tunneling(to the other side), going next, etc. etc. But the fact is, we all are entitled to do it. If the common saying is, "you bought the game, play it how you want," Then that goes for any situation that a player chooses, within the rules of the game, correct?
What are you responding to exactly? Coz I pretty much said that exact same thing in my comment, and then I made it clear "quitting is not playing the game."
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711528#Comment_3711528
Ah yes, another judgemental guy with a bias and a lot to say.
lobby dodgingKillers do not need to DC if they can prevent it by dodging the lobby. You can opt-out of 4 Claudettes having each other on the friend list. There is no dodging a proxy-camping P100 meta Blight or 3genning pre-nerf SM.Survivors DC and they usually get met with Survivor buffs or killer nerfs, or … bothWhat? Usually? You make it sound like survivors get strong buffs every other patch while killers get nothing but nerfs when it has been relatively even in the last 24 months except for 6.1.0 which, as a reminder, buffed killer speeds by 10% and nerfed survivor ones by 10% on top of adding 10s to gens besides other things. Barely noticeable… right.I do not disagree with all the things you say but some of them come through a massive killer lens. Like killers don't laugh at survivors disconnecting or killer main streamers don't have dc counters for their chat to enjoy.
Sure, a lot of survivors quit matches for no reason. Though I can respect the Ace in that Ghostface match for making a point.
Judgemental and bias with a lot to say? I have a lot to say because there is so much bs in DBD. And calling out said crybabies for a lame, childish attitude, if you wanna call it judgemental, whatever, they need to hear that their attitude stinks. People can play however they want to, but quitting is not playing. Entitlement has been rampant in Survivors for years now. The Devs will always cater to them because they're the biggest part of the player base.
No, but there is a way to win against a proxy camping p100 Blight. It's harder than it would be against any other Killer, but it's still a winnable situation. Killers lobby dodge against potential SWFs because they know they can expect some of the most broken stuff. Flashbang, BP, FTP, Buckle Up, Syringe, DS, OTR, Hope, Blast Mine. You would lobby dodge if you knew it was a p100 Blight, the only difference is Survivors actually have the advantages when the game loads in. Safe pallets, and a meta that makes them and their team invincible. The old 'Stall-Merchant' wasn't even a strong play style, it just bored everyone to death. She couldn't actually win from that play style if the players were smart and persisted grinding out the gens. She could only be in one place at a time. Boring but winnable.
Yes, those things are barely noticeable. A Survivor can still run in a straight line after a hit and make it about 75 meters across the map before they actually need to start looping again. And 10 seconds extra on a gen is nothing. Since there's no punishment for doing gens injured, they will always fly by if Survivors aren't wasting their own time by not progressing their objective.
In a game where skill has minimal impact on both sides, and it's all about having more to work with than the opponent does, it's obviously gonna make for some entitled players, in addition to the Devs history with buffs and nerfs. They just buffed the strongest Survivor perk in the game. So now, if there is 2 DS and 2 Blast Mine in a lobby and get used, the Killer will eat a 20 second stun at minimum. And then add Flashbang and BP to it. More stun time. Killers could be mass quitting against all that stuff, going against that in almost every match, over and over is so frustrating. Survivors will gladly DC on mass the moment a Killer so much as takes the early advantage in a match. Now, I'm not the type to DC against anything other than a cheater in my lobby. Hence my stance on players just doing the gens helping the team. Or sticking around to the end because I know the chances of getting 2 kills in EGC is high due to the altruistic nature of Survivors to greed for the 4-man escape.
There's only 2 acceptable reasons for a Survivor to quit:
- Something is happening irl and they have to go deal with it.
- There's a cheater either on their team or the Killer is cheating.
Anything else just makes them entitled.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711531#Comment_3711531
Killers adapt
Sure and killers "adapted" by using perks that literally give value for nothing (Lethal / Corrupt), require some hard tasks like kicking the gen (Nowhere to Hide) or opening the locker (Ultimate Weapon), or justify that is completely balanced that one hook can get -25% to gen (PainRes), then block all gens (Grim), then inflict another -5% with another -30% of what's left (Pop).
Truly amazing performance that require immense skill.
The game hasn't been about skill for a long time. In a game that has god pallets, and almost every time it's safe for a Survivor to pre drop every pallet they run to and the Killer will waste so much time getting them that they will lose because of it.
Styptic Agent and Anti-hemorrhagic Syringe exist. And are used all the time by so called good Survivors. Talk about skill in a sarcastic way there.
Perks like Corrupt are easily played around and usually are worthless to use on any killer other than Hag, Trapper, Cenobite. Since every other Killer will want to get into a chase right away.
You talk like Killer intel perks hand them easy wins. They don't, simply knowing where a Survivor is means nothing if where they will take too long to get a down.
25% is 22.5 seconds. Hardly a long time to sit on a gen for. Also, there is no skill in just sitting on a gen in order for your team to win. Like I said at the start, skill hasn't been a thing needed in DBD for a long time. Just like there is no skill in focusing one or two people out as quickly as possible. There's intelligence to both of those plays, but it isn't skillful.
It's also not "balanced" that Survivors have perks that are uncounterable: For The People+Buckle Up. Background Player+Flashbang. Both of these uncounterable synergies prevent the Killer from using the slowdown that you hate so much btw. Maybe try using them too. Become another Survivor that makes your team invincible. Literally a 9-Lives meta
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711468#Comment_3711468
Killers if they had a way to Circumvent the dc penalty would do that because you think they like losing 2 gens in a chase no they would dc but they can't they'll face a penalty nor can they circumvent it its been proven every time the Dc penalty been turned off and the devs know this cause Survivors are major entitled and need to be humbled
Killers at higher levels have always had to deal with losing 3 gens for their first hook at a best case scenario in the majority of matches for years now. Killers adapt and persevere for the most part. Survivors for the most part DC the moment they hear a Terror Radius of a character that they don't like.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711456#Comment_3711456
Glueing yourself to a gen in order to die is great until the killer realizes that you've given up so they just grab you off the gen then let you bleed out
You ain't gotta give up, just do the damn gens and take the chase if you get pressured. It's what you'd be doing in a match where your Survivor team is winning or not going against a Killer you dislike anyway. No difference at all.