_Onyx_
_Onyx_
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700708#Comment_3700708
Do you both know that GF already has ways to play strategically with his power against higher level teams. Even if the sneaky play doesn't grant a free hit, you can make areas a dead zone quickly.
i mean every killer can do that. most of the killer do that better then GF. Billy for example can play strategically and camp around hooks with an instant down. no marking required.
I know that, but they shouldn't touch anything about his kit until his add-ons are in a really good state. Otherwise you end up with a situation like Onryö where they have to keep reworking it.
His add-on are already in a good spot. It is just that his base-power is not relevant enough to use them in effective manner. Ghostface is suppose to be like a strategical assassin-type 4vs1 killer. I just don't think he is too effective at doing that in average regular gameplay. You really have to work hard as GF to produce wins.
My point was, it's not like GF has nothing going for him in his kit. M1 Killers will always struggle, no matter what. But GF requires knowing the fundamentals at a high level, plus also knowing his power in and out. You're right, he does require a lot of effort, but minimising that effort in the change ideas you have suggested is too far.
Can you go into detail how his add-ons are good as is?
Coz I am struggling to see why his add-ons should stay as they are. He has dual effect add-ons that are split into different ones, when they could easily be one add-on. His number increases could be better. And the ones that reward doing well with him, should be replaced with helping him get into that position, and not expect you to be in that position already like they do now. This is my reasoning for an add-on pass again. To elevate his gameplay with a wide selection to choose from, but at his core, he plays the same.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700648#Comment_3700648
your idea is similar to mine. He can only track hiding survivors that injured in my version. I am not sure how crazy he would be consider that other killer have better map mobility and better chase presence. he would have strong information tool but somehow i suspect that killers in modern dbd era almost need chase presence to be relevant. ghostface would be an interesting experiment on whether you can make a potent killer without any direct chase power and no mori.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700537#Comment_3700537
Doing an add-on pass is definitely the way to go with him, initially. If then he doesn't perform much better, then you look at his core kit to see what could be added or changed. Baby steps.
He already got an add-on pass. He had worst add-on than before on average.
I know that, but they shouldn't touch anything about his kit until his add-ons are in a really good state. Otherwise you end up with a situation like Onryö where they have to keep reworking it.
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700476#Comment_3700476
His chase power is definitely a problem. He essentially relies on catching people off guard, but the higher the MMR, the more of a problem catching anyone off guard is. One thing that sucks is when GF spends the extra time to try to sneak up to an area only to peak around a corner and find out the survivor working on the gen was on the OTHER side of the gen - no stalking is gained, and the survivor gets an easy head start. One thing I suggested was that while crouching, GF can see any survivors within 20 meters that are interacting with something. This would allow GF to better set up an ambush without having to reveal his position first. Do note, while 20 meters is a pretty good distance, those survivors MUST be interacting with something for it to work, so he can't use it to hunt down survivors who are hiding.
This would at least allow his extra time that it takes up to set up an ambush to stop getting trashed with no payoff just because of RNG of which side of a gen a survivor happens to be on.
His power is in a state right now where it's actually good and well designed, but suffers from SWF being SWF. Solo's don't usually play the game with confidence and aggression (regardless of their level - it all depends on their perk choice) so GF can usually get those Marks and free hits. Then the chases becomes easier as the match goes on.
Giving a Killer free intel that perks would normally give is a very risky change. I get you both want to make it so GF isn't wasting his time trying to get the sneaky play off, but giving that intel to him for free isn't a good idea. It'd be different if the Survivors that are Marked reveal their aura when performing conspicuous actions at base kit, coz then you've earned the intel. But just slapping intel onto his stealth power doesn't sound good. It just makes the players not need to use their brains.
@Devil_hit11 @RpTheHotrod Do you both know that GF already has ways to play strategically with his power against higher level teams. Even if the sneaky play doesn't grant a free hit, you can make areas a dead zone quickly. And on top of that, you can choose to slow burn with his power, gens are always gonna fly by at higher levels, so playing the long con, as it were, and stalking but not pressuring them if the area they're in isn't one you'd like to defend, you can do that. Only commit to them once they've come to you. I'm not talking about 3-genning btw, I'm saying you don't always have to be the one actively trying to get the drop on them. High level players are crazy bold, you can use that boldness against them by not always trying to get the sneaky plays and free hits, instead opting to punish their confidence by snowballing. Good Survivors will always adapt, so if they start to realise what you're doing, you can then switch to the sneakier plays and then get those free hits. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying GF is amazingly strong, but he really don't need these intel buffs to his kit that you guys are suggesting.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
WIthout addon pictures and seeing the current version I can't judge these.
Load up DBD or go onto Wiki and look at the current effects. A couple are the same as they are now.
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@Devil_hit11 Ghost Face does have an add-on problem. There are lots of them that give effects that are best grouped together. Yet using them doesn't boost you enough to warrant using up both slots. On top of the ones that are worth using, having to use both add-ons to give yourself a scenario counter or reward is terrible for a Killer that has no real pressure against Survivors that are switched on, have spotters, or are on a map with no mist and not enough LOS blockers.
You have to be careful with buffs to a Killer that can control how the team counters them. If Ghost Face were to Mark the whole team, or the majority of the team (which is possible) there's no real counter to the pressure he can gain when he has the perks and add-on synergy to go with it.
Doing an add-on pass is definitely the way to go with him, initially. If then he doesn't perform much better, then you look at his core kit to see what could be added or changed. Baby steps.
I don't like either of those two ideas. The first one makes the Survivors counter of hiding and evading while vulnerable non-existant. And the second provides too much intel for a Stealth Killer. If you aren't aware he's there, but he knows you're there, atm, it's great play on the GF's part .With your idea, it would remove any predictive play or game sense needed to play well at a higher level and would actually lower his skill-expression, ironically.
Ghost Face has skill expression in rewarding map knowledge, being able to bypass altruism in all scenarios, and constantly keep Survivors vulnerable from close and long range. Once players get good with GF, you really start to notice that although he is comparatively weak, he has a lot of strength that most M1 characters lack. After all, the most common thing to see in the DBD gameplay loop is mind games. Ghost Face excels at them, you can juggle a whole team with paranoia (Some maps excluded).
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You're gonna have to explain why this change will be so bad
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i am not entirely sure but my understanding of chase logic is that it is based off bloodlust. if bloodlust build up higher, it takes longer to decay therefore the chase takes longer to lose. If bloodlust is lower, often as a result of not having LOS than i think the decay is faster.
See that would make sense. I like your logic and thinking, but in the case of PWYF, you break chase pretty damn quickly as soon as it's initiated to save yourself the most time gaining the tokens. Yet scenarios like what I mentioned still happen. Consistently inconsistent lol
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@Ohyakno said:
Running after someone five feet away and it not being a chase makes my eyes roll out of my head
Omg yes. Forgot to mention that…dear lord.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698739#Comment_3698739
I consider the Pigs ambush a form of anti loop. Sadako has the post - manifestation invisibility that i consider a form of anti loop. It can situationally lead to hits if executed well. Just like the Pigs ambush. I dont say that she is an anti loop killer, just that she has a form of anti loop, just like most other killers. Sadako is a strategic stealth killer with a secondary ability (condemned).
I cannot tell you that you should or should not play her. Its up to you to play her and find out if you like to play as her or not. For me, she, just like the Pig, is the perfect killer design. Mostly m1 - mindgame - focussed, strategic element, stealth. As you said, you should not commit to chases much as her as her ability to down survivors is pretty weak. Pre dropping or shift w is sadly very effective against her. You mention something funny:
"you're not gonna 100% know when that is happening, it's all down to predicting and game sense at that point."
This is what I do. I know where survivors take tapes and have to deliver them. I know what pathing they usually do and catch them off guard. I know where boxes as Pig are and what pathing survivors will take. I know how long it takes to search a box and can predict their location based on that information. This is why I play these killers. This is her skill cieling. If executed perfectly, you can condemn people really fast. All you need is to know where they are. If you can develop a high level of gamesense, which is admittedly linked to experience and playtime, she can become a force to be reckoned with. I understand that this type of gameplay is not for everyone, but for me its why I still play DBD.
I usually play with ring drawing and bloody fingernails.
Ring drawing rewards me for hooking survivors that I downed when I correctly estimated their location and downed them.
Bloody fingernails helps me in chase to get hits or even downs and gives me more distance back when using projection mid chase to condemn people.
Slugging is by far not the best playstyle on her. Its a mixture of hit and run, strategic hooking and spreading condemn agressively.
I can recommend this build for learners, because it focusses on all the important parts of her kit:
- Stbfl
- Surge
- Hex: face the darkness
- Discordance
I used this build back on OG Sadako and used it now on 3.0 Sadako until it became unecessary and boring.
She can propably not reach the power level of Sadako 2.0 in normal matches, but if you want to literally stomp people, regardless of skill level or swf, with her, send yourself to the gideon meat plant and use my build / strategy. I have not lost a game on that map with her since the rework and not with OG Sadako as well. She is straight up unfair on that map and I already told this to the devs multiple times. The gideon meat plant should just be reworked.
Shes doesnt need to be "salvaged" shes decent but in need of some tweaks. I am glad that I can play her again after the hot mess that was Sadako 2.0. I refused to play her during that time.
See, this is why I wanted you to explain in detail. Hearing the passion of someone who mains a particular Killer enlighten others and impart wisdom on them is good to see. I get this way when I hear people talk ######### on Clown lol
I'm definitely gonna go ahead with my experiment with her, Onryö is one of my favourite Killers in the game, I just haven't liked all these changes and touch ups they've given her in this desperation to find a common ground between Killers having a fun time playing her and Survivors not moaning about her common play style.
Even Pig, her Ambush is anti-loop for sure, but they played it too safe with these recent buffs to that aspect of her kit. I would love to see Pig be able to Ambush to get hits against Survivors trying to get distance. I tested this a lot recently with add-ons and perks, and you only save yourself about 2/3 seconds worth of chase time by trying to get max distance Ambush hits in the open. I would like to see that chase time reduced by about 7/10 seconds with buffs to her crouch and ambush. She shouldn't be restricted to only using it in loops, because even then, pre dropping or peeling away just removes all interaction with her power. Other Killers are still able to attempt their powers when Survivors do this because of their strength, Pig unfortunately can't use it whenever she wants to and thus, the reason why I want her buffed even more generously.
It's funny you mention her intermittent visibility. Against good Survivors, in the majority of tiles, you definitely need both duration add-ons to get the most out of these loop mind games.
What's your expert build that you use the most? Coz I've played a lot of Onryö 1.0 and a little of 2.0, before I got bored of how easy it was to get a kill early in the match (it was borderline on par with Tombstone Piece Myers). It's how I see the similarities between 3.0 and 1.0. The glaring difference being the avoiding hooks play style not working now. I do think this is the closest she's been to being in that "perfect" state of play though.
If they didn't want to do a complete change of her, and liked the idea of how she is now, then my suggestions would be for them to lean more into the Condemned being a valid play style, but merge it with hooks for maximum efficiency. Example, if they made it so Condemned stacks could be locked in at a maximum of 5 or 6 from the first hook. That would allow Onryö to be a Killer that can be a very powerful early game killer that slowly burns out towards the middle and end if the strategy doesn't work. While also giving Survivors more options when it comes to playing around her TVs. I'll likely post my Onryö 4.0 idea on the forums at some point soon. You are more than welcome to ######### on it if it's awful lol but I definitely think the Devs are so close to Sadako being perfect. They just need to figure out that Condemned isn't a mechanic that should play second fiddle to everything else, but they should encourage it as well as the generic killer gameplay loop at the same time.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698055#Comment_3698055
But it will! I play her on a daily basis. There is a small indivator that shows that they get condemned. I even play with a friend sometimes and see that I get stacks through spamming.
She has an anti loop ability. Its weak but there.
Yes, she has a lullaby. But this lullaby is, as you said sometimes overshadowed by other sounds. On top of this, you can hide your apporach behind line of sight blockers (if possible) to make survivors guess from which direction you are coming from. This is basics and I dont know if I even have to explain this.
Sadako is a decent killer. I think many just play her wrong and overcommit to chases that take way too much time.
Yeah I tested it and found out they put it back in :)
Anti-loop is a classification given to Killers that shut down the Survivors ability to utilise a tile to its full strength. Killers like Clown and Doctor are anti-loop. Onryö does not have anything that stops Survivors doing what they want in every tile. Please explain why you insist that Onryö is an anti-loop killer.
Of course you're gonna get a stealth hit here and there. But the majority of players, especially at a higher MMR very rarely give you those opportunities. So that's where the argument comes from, it's a pseudo-stealth, just like Chucky. If it were consistent then I'd agree with you that it's good, but it isn't. When your stealth ability can be accurately compared to Chucky's, that's when you know it's bad lol You keep saying stuff like "this is the basics so I don't need to explain this" or "there is so much to go into that I won't go into it". It's a cop out, especially if you've got solid ground to stand on. If I'm wrong about Onryö, which I doubt I am, I'd love to hear an Onryö main tell me why she is slept on. So I can play her and see if she actually is. I'm planning on doing experiments with her anyway, but please explain in detail why Onryö is slept on and underestimated.
The problem with Onryö is this: eventually you have to commit to a chase to get a down. Whether that's to get a hook, slug them or kill them with the Inexorable Stare. However, as I've argued, she hasn't got the tools in her kit to consistently get hits on Survivors to put herself in a situation where you can judge whether a chase is worth committing to. You can play hit and run, try to catch them out when they're taking a Tape to their TV, but you're not gonna 100% know when that is happening, it's all down to predicting and game sense at that point. Staying injured has no real negative to Survivors outside of making unhooks unsafe, but like I just said, Onryö can't consistently get hooks. She is very close to her original design in this 3.0 version, and the way she was played in 1.0 was a slugging TV spammer that ignored hooks altogether to get Condemned kills and then hook people when the match was over. I can imagine people trying to play a weaker version of that play style once again, but with Mangled being nerfed and there being more anti-slug perks that are available (FTP+Buckle Up) would just hard counter that play style. On top of that, you're gonna be tempted to hook someone to lock in their Condemned progress. But 3 stacks is too low of a number. I personally think it should lock in at a maximum of 6 on the first hook.
Right now, I just don't see a play style or loadout that gives Onryö that power she once had. Like I said, I'm gonna be experimenting with her soon to try and see if she can be salvaged.
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I would personally leave it as it is. But add the addition of something like:
Each time a totem is destroyed, gain a token. Up to a maximum of 10 tokens. For each token gained, the End Game Collapse timer is decreased by 6.
The perk deactivates when the End Game Collapse begins. (Basically, if totems are cleansed while the EGC is active, it does not affect the timer).
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I always visualise Lady Dimitrescu being a good Legendary cosmetic for Skull Merchant. When they've finally gotten around to a Skull Merchant 3.0, and people playing and versing her are happy, then give her that skin :D
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@Azulra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698055#Comment_3698055
I'm sorry to say this, but what you keep saying is still false-
They removed the cool down on Condemn gain shortly after her rework and you can 100% spam Condemn on the survivors. I had a friend help me test it and he got fully Condemned right away at the start of a custom game just by me spamming TVs.
Also she has basekit anti-loop with pallets. Due to the fact that she can bloodlust while Demanifested again where she has stun immunity from pallets and Head On she can safely chase you around pallets without any care at all and, ever since her semi-recent buff, she doesn't suffer any penalty for doing this now since she no longer becomes slower than a survivor while she is in the middle of Manifesting. In other words, she has base-kit anti-loop.
You are correct though about her stealth just being plain bad. Her lullaby isn't always the most noticeable of things unless you have a very good headset and cranked your game volume up pretty high, but with the Visual Terror Radius being in the game her stealth just gets completely destroyed into pieces then thrown out the window because a lot of people play with that setting on now and even if you can't hear her lullaby you'll just see the Visual Terror Radius pop up the instant you're in her lullaby range. If they were to swap out the Blindness effect on Mindbreaker with the Deafened status effect instead then this problem would be fixed by that perk(which is a decent perk for stealth killers anyways) since Deafened makes it to where all audio is muted essentially which, theoretically, should bypass the Visual Terror Radius setting and would just mute her lullaby.
I'm gonna test it myself. I don't like blindly believing anything on DBD lol but to save myself the time, if there is a patch note that specifically says this, can you link it here?
Having stun immunity and bloodlust while Demanifested isn't anti-loop. Anti-loop is a classification of when a Killer has tools in their kit which allow them to get hits quicker before a Survivor safely plays around the tile for prolonged periods of time (Doctor and Clown are the best examples of this).
Not having a Wraith level of stealth combined with her lack of an anti-loop makes it so she isn't in control of a match. If you can rarely get a quick hit while stealthing around the map, you're gonna have a hard time downing anyone in any meaningful time.
You either have to use 50% bonus Projection speed. Or use both intermittent invisibility add-ons to actually get hits utilising her kit. Otherwise you're a pushover M1 killer.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697642#Comment_3697642
This is wrong. You can spam it.
Her anti loop is on the weaker end, but it does exist and works. Also wrong.
You can absolutely sneak up on survivors.
Did you read what I said?
I didn't say you couldn't spam the Projection, I said there is an invisible cooldown between when a Survivor can gain Condemned after a Projection. So using it, then using it again instantly won't give Survivors 2 stacks of Condemned.
She has no anti-loop ability. The add-ons for intermittent invisibility duration are the only things that give her a chance in the loops where there is no mindgame for M1 Killers. And you need perks to weaken loops to give yourself a chance at getting hits quicker too.
She has a droning audio that you can hear while she is Demanifested. Survivors can hear that too when she gets close. Meaning they can hear it and run away before you get to start Manifesting. Some people will get caught out coz of louder than usual map ambient sounds. Or not playing with headphones etc. But in general, she suffers with the same pseudo-stealth that Chucky does, where they have no Terror Radius or Red Stain but makes audible noises that everyone can hear if they're close enough to them.
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She's in need of another rework unfortunately. I have an idea for it, but with all these posts about her I dunno if it would just be terrible timing or not lol
Here's the current state of Onryö':
- You have an invisible 10 second (I think) timer between when Survivors can gain a stack of Condemned from Projection. (Spamming it gives you nothing).
- Survivors holding a tape suffer zero negative. (Unless you use an add-on to give all other Survivors a stack of Condemned when hooking a Survivor holding a tape)
- Onryö can Lock In Survivors Condemned at a maximum of 3. (It locks in at 3 even if they have more condemned than that, so hooking them once is the only real incentive - since getting them on more than one hook stage is equivalent to their Condemned getting close to full 7 stacks)
- Zero anti-loop capability (outside of add-ons and perks. Makes her a pushover in chase)
- Noisy even in stealth (means you can't sneak up on anyone)
Honestly, if you are going to play Onryö 3.0, you gotta be prepared to have very little input with your power. You can only really utilise her full kit on Midwich with a build dedicated to doing just that too.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697365#Comment_3697365
Most balanced and completely counterable? Nah. Not really. Unknown does have some pretty uncounterable scenarios. Like having a Hallucination in a loop. There's nothing you can do to avoid a hit there, if they don't mess up and it's also possible for them to wait in that loop until a Hallucination is placed. That's really not a nice feeling to play against since it basically makes them a stronger Dredge in that loop. It's also something that makes this killer less interesting for me to play as because I know that I often have the option to just wait and place a Hallucination instead of actually playing around with the UVX.
I don't really like playing as Unknown either. I find it kind of boring for the most part and the only real interesting thing about the killer for me is the bouncing projectile. That's something different. But everything else, I don't really like. Hitting survivors through walls also feels pretty wrong to me.
The visual design in my opinion is more goofy than anything else.
If you see that the Unknown is just lingering in a tile, why don't you just leave? Also, the player doing that is just wasting their own time too. Not to mention that those scenarios can be avoided by realising you've put yourself in a bad spot and not dropping the pallet. You can also just leave the loop when the clone is placed after the next rotation. It's not a guarantee that they get the hit in every chase, thus it's counterable.
When it comes to the clones, the best way for a team to play against them is to remove them as soon as they're placed. Anyone who is nearby when they see the Unknown close, chasing someone or just patrolling, they should take it upon themselves to Dispel it before it even becomes an issue.
With the projectile, having an ability that hits through walls is incredible. Like I said in the comment you replied to, most Survivor gameplay is mind games. The Unknown is no exception to this, it just amplifies it. A lot of people who dislike Unknown aren't good at playing around with mind games. Have you been against an Unknown or played against Survivors as Unknown where you're both doing out the box plays? It's a rush and very satisfying to be able to dodge, land hits etc consistently and have a highly engaging 1v1 and 4v1 vs these players. If any of this is taken away from Unknown, the OP's prediction of Unknowns being zone campers and 3-genning will self-fulfill.
The only thing I will concede is that a few add-ons should be nerfed or changed completely. But basekit wise, it's completely fine.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696798#Comment_3696798
The Killer is extremely boring. You're a bot if you play this killer on mnk.
Mnk?
Whenever I hear someone say this killer is boring without a reason, it makes me think that they haven't really put much thought into what The Unknown brings to DBD. Its kit is so versatile and completely counterable too. Its the most balanced Killer they have ever made, yet it's a high A tier Killer.
BHVR, if they did it by accident or purposely tried to make it this way, did an amazing job with this killer.
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This wasn't the first time they released stats like this.
And the stats meant nothing. They will never release stats that actually show proper value and give real exposure to the nature of the games played.
For the people who care about transparency, they should show us:
Hooks achieved : Generators repaired
Maps/Realms : Escapes
Maps/Realms : Kills
Maps/Realms : Hooks
X Killer Hooks : Maps/Realms
X Killer Kills : Maps/Realms
These are the ones that matter. Coz then you can look at all of those and see what's imbalanced and the real issue. Looking at data like that will also allow you to see what needs nerfing on a particular side, what needs buffing etc etc.
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Most Survivor skill-expression is lumped into game awareness and map knowledge. It's mindgames mainly.
So the argument that UVX can't be dodged is so bad. You can predict the shot and move to a position that makes it impossible for Unknown to get you. Or look behind you with enough distance and watch the projectile path and move away from it.
You know what's really funny. Survivors can easily counter being zoned or 3-gen'd by simply w-keying it away from the area they're defending. Take the health state and move away. Give your team time to progress them, and then it's their turn to take them away from the gen area.
Unknown is the best Killer BHVR have ever released. It has all the tools to not play them in a boring way. Being able to feel like you can take a chase in any part of the map is very rare for a lot of the roster to have. On top of having a very interactive counter play too.
I completely disagree with this post. Once people figure out how to play as and vs Unknown, (which good players already have btw) the matches should be very fun. But as it is, Survivor players are entitled and think/assume they can get Killers nerfed to the point of them having to camp, slug, tunnel and 3-gen in order to get an interaction that they can win from. It's the most ironic crap ever. They'll moan about a fun killer before learning how to get better and counter them, and when they're nerfed they moan that everyone plays the same. It's so stupid.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696709#Comment_3696709
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C222XILC1IJW/image.png
I hate to break it to you, but For the People isn't meta. Even if it was, Object of Obsession wouldn't be the reason. It's because of Buckle Up.
I don't think you should be forced to run Decisive or For the People to get an Aura reading perk to work properly. You say it's to "encourage" you to be the obsession, but you don't actually have much control over that at all outside of a tiny number of perks. It's mostly down to chance, and it will be further out of your favor with the increased use of DS.
In fact, even if you DO run FTP, you'll pretty much be guaranteed to not be the obsession at the start of the match due to the decreased chance from FTP, which will reduce the perk's effectiveness slightly anyway.
The risk of Object is in the fact that you can be revealed at inopportune times (which does already happen). Making the timer always active wouldn't take all the risk out of the perk at all. It's meant to link you to the killer and grab their attention. This has an inherent risk to it and can backfire.
Yes, For The People + Buckle Up is meta. Nothing stopping you from using that with OoO.
The risk combos with the chance of going up against Rancor or something like that. On top of constantly being revealed, hence the risk reward.
You're arguing that FTP isn't worth it coz it reduces OoO odds. Yet the perk actively makes you the Obsession when it's used lol
OoO is in a relatively perfect state right now. The amount of Obsession switching perks that exist overall makes it risky, but the reward is worth it. Especially if you're a good looper.
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It's not like For The People is meta right now...
OoO has a function outside of being the Obsession too. But since this thread is about the aura exchange + action buff every 30 seconds, you can easily use DS and/or For The People with it to keep recycling yourself as the Obsession.
The whole point of OoO is to encourage you to want to be the Obsession to get the best effects from it, this is typically because most Killer Obsession perks give a negative effect that the Survivors should not want to be affected by.
This idea ruins that risk reward and just makes it a reward perk. Not a good idea.
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@Slaughterhouse3 said:
Would be neat considering all his perks revolve around end game. I mean I think he needs a ton of other changes also lol but I just thought it seemed like a cool idea.
I'm not gonna keep repeating my idea for a Freddy 3.0 rework in every thread I see. So in response to Freddy having an endgame power. They can make it so Freddy can teleport to any generator, regardless of whether it's blocked or fully repaired.
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Freddy isn't weak because he has no map pressure, he actually does have map pressure. What makes Freddy weak is the fact that Survivors have complete control over his power. If they constantly keep waking up at alarm clocks when they've finished a gen or are about to go for an unhook, you can't utilise any of your anti-loop or deception (depending on if you use Snares or Pallets). On top of that, Freddy relies on Survivors being asleep to recharge his Projection faster.
Freddy needs the same rework treatment as Onryö. His 3.0 should be a mix of Dream Pull, Dream Projection, Snares and Dream Pallets. I'd say make Dream Pull and Dream Projection base kit, and lock the Snares and Dream Pallets behind add-ons. That way, at base, he would be able to be in control of putting Survivors to sleep while at the same time being able to locate them easier, and have map pressure with more frequent teleports.
Then after that, they should redesign his Projection to make it so he can teleport to all generators, regardless of whether they're blocked or fully repaired. Allowing him to actually have a power at the end game.
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The issue I have with the combo of Haste add-ons is you find yourself needing to use Bottles too much. So much so that you're reloading more than you ideally should be. Let me ask you, do you find yourself with Survivors being able to become invigorated too? Coz that's the scenario I see happen a lot when others play Antidote Clown; and with your Dissolution choice, I can see them punishing the play style of never breaking a pallet when it's being looped by forcing a routing that allows them to hit the Antidote cloud on their rotation.
I'd say it's a 4/10. Coz once people learn to camp pallets and try to get the stun with every pallet drop, the build becomes borderline useless. Since you'll be having to use bottles to catch up, and then reload when you do catch up which gives them more room to get more distance. So you end up with a w-key simulator in every chase you go to. Rather than Survivors feeling like they can loop you and giving you the chance to play around the tile. And even if you do get a down and hook quickly, you don't have any intel perks to know where to go to next. On top of that, Survivors that are smart will hear your terror radius and move away from the gen area before you get there, making all the speed useless too. If you added at least one intel perk to the build it would be a lot stronger and more consistent.
I'm a Clown main, so I like to use a build that allows me to constantly be in a chase with minimal downtime and one that compliments Clown's phenomenal chase strength, while delaying gen repairs passively without worrying about the game going to endgame:
Whispers, Brutal Strength, Blood Warden, Deadlock w/Cigar Box + Garnish Make-up Kit (16m aura when invigorated with extra 2 seconds of being invigorated)
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Yeah I agree with all of you @PilotBob654 @Seraphor @SuperCop
The rituals were great when the game first came out. Loads of BP for taking the time necessary to complete a specific task over 10 times.
Now they don't do anything for the game. BP is the easiest it's ever been to gain quickly. And these rituals don't do anything to speed that up.
I would love to see brand new rituals; both Killer and Survivor rituals per day instead of just a random 1; Iridescent Shards on top of BP; and the option to use a small amount of BP to reroll them again and again if the first reroll isn't appealing.
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DBD's community has a lot of players with really strange mindsets and attitudes. This behaviour has been enabled for years to the point where it's never gonna be fixed or remedied
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693947#Comment_3693947
I dont watch him anymore since he got killer biased, so i couldnt care less. But from reading about this idea i can tell he is stll unreasonable and killer biased. He once was a trusted player, but he ruined it all.
You're wrong, simple as
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692977#Comment_3692977
Never biased. That was the case years ago, then he made a full turn towards being killer biased and being hardly unreasonable.
When was he Killer biased in a unreasonable manner recently then?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692977#Comment_3692977
He is very biased, one of the most biased players. There are Killer Mains who are less biased than him who always hides it with "I play both sides".
And the current Endgame is not unhealthy. One Survivor getting a pity escape via Hatch is not unhealthy. Killers can make it unhealthy by slugging endlessly for a 4K, but this is on the player, not the system itself.
Because as Killer, you dont NEED a 4K most of the time. If you finish the game with Gens still up and a 3K, it does not matter if the last Survivor gets lucky and finds the Hatch, you won as Killer. Let alone that the Survivor most likely has to get lucky to find Hatch first, because they a) move slower and b) have to hide while the Killer finding it first is more unlikely.
Example from yesterday:
Playing against a Spirit, 2 Gens to go, second Survivor dead. The only Survivors alive are SWF-Mate (0 Hooks) and another player (1 Hook). Spirit downs me, so I will not struggle or anything. But, she does not hook me. Instead, she lets me on the ground for almost 4 minutes to search for the other Survivor. Then (I have AFK-Crows at this point) she picks me up and plans on walking around with me (she had Agitation) to find the last Survivor. When I started wiggling she let me escape and ignores me for a minute or so, but since I am doing a Gen, she downs me eventually. I kobe (classic) while trying to suicide and then she lets me repair a Gen for 1 minute again before finally hooking me.
In the end she finds the Hatch first and gets the other Survivor while they are opening a Gate. So tell me, if she would have not done all of this, would the Endgame be unhealthy? No. Would it be unhealthy if the other Survivor escaped via Hatch and it is "only" a 3K with 2 Gens left? No.
But she MADE it unhealthy by keeping me slugged the whole time AND trying to prolong it even more by not letting me Bleedout. It is the Killers action which make Endgame unhealthy, this fixating on having a 4K instead of just accepting a Win with a Hatch escape (which it clearly is).
So yeah, Killers are the problem Endgame can become unhealthy, not the system itself.
You're clearly not a Tru3 viewer. Anyone who watches him and knows his personality and actually listens to what Tru3 says will understand that all of his opinions about the game and ideas for changes are from the standpoint of "how can x change make the game focused around both sides being able to have a universally fun experience while also being able to win at the same time. That's the opposite of biased.
The Killer shouldn't need to settle for only 3 kills. In the current state, if the Killer wants max MMR increases they I'll go for all 4, this is an awful experience for both sides when this happens. Like in your example, yes, it is completely on the player to greed for the 4 and waste all that time. In it's current state, the end game is a randomised 50/50 of escape or die. Making it a skill-based 50/50 is a far more healthier direction to push towards. It doesn't even have to be every end game, if all gens are done by the time the last Survivor is left, then there is no need for it. Then it turns back into the Exit Gate or Hatch escape method. It only really needs to be the 50/50 end game chase if the Survivors have lost with generators remaining, giving the edge to the Killer to get the win. And in that scenario, if the Survivor wins the chase, they would get a massive boost to their MMR and bonus BP for it too
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@Chaosrider said:
Yeah, how about no? Not surprising that something this killer-biased is coming from True to begin with. Its completely flawed.
I'm guessing you don't even watch Tru3's content. His ideas are never biased to a side. They're constructive and aimed at game health. Obviously not every idea is a gold mine since he never usually fleshes out his ideas; but his endgame is a hell of a lot healthier than the current one. If I'm correct, Tru3's endgame also respawns in pallets that have been used in the trial.
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If you're going in that direction, then it would need to very specific criteria. I'd lean more towards:
"While DS is active, if another Survivor is placed into the Dying state while you are healthy or injured and not within 32 meters of the Killer's location, DS deactivates immediately."
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These changes are too much. Clown's power right now is around where you'd ideally want it to be. I'd much prefer seeing them just separate the Antidote and Tonic Bottles into 2 individual capacities.
Clown right now is all about anticipating the Survivors next options in chase and limiting how many they have and how effectively they can utilise those options. This leads to a lot of people misplaying Clown and wasting Bottles by spamming without forethought.
These changes take that aspect away from him and turn him into a slow burner that gives Survivors too much control over how his power affects the gameplay loop. Yes, I agree Clown is hurt by map size, but so is every non-mobility Killer in DBD. It has nothing really to do with him exclusively. Clown is hurt more by tile RNG than a Survivors skill level more than anything. Coz not many people really know how to counter Clown consistently. Most just blag there way in matches Vs him, getting lucky on rotating back to a pallet or vault in a chase with him. I very rarely see Survivors intelligently out predicting a Clown or forcing the Clown to make mistakes. Also, Clown is nowhere near as weak as everyone claims. I'd put Clown B tier. A player that knows how to play him and has a loadout that compliments him, definitely allows his strength to shine.
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I can see where you're coming from. But from a different perspective, even if these changes are quite right, this is the direction Twins need to be taken in.
Twins atm are punished for both missing and succeeding with their power. This change makes it so they're only punished for missing. On top of that, these changes also pull the control of the power back to the Twins. Atm Survivors control the Twins power.
I am very excited to see these changes play out, personally.
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This is a really good idea. They should grant a bigger boost in progress too.
But also, you can no longer receive a great bonus when performing actions while injured.
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687544#Comment_3687544
15s is the activation duration it only gives 3s of aura reading & reveals your aura is being read with the blindness effect.
That's it confirmed then. They gutted the perk and made yet another Killer perk useless and not comparatively worth using over others that you are guaranteed value from.
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@BOFH said:
Not to mention Ultimate Weapon was countered by Calm Spirit, now it's just "yet another reason to run Distortion".
At least make it a Killer Instinct or Loud Noise notification, instead of being dumb and throwing in the aura bucket.
Yep, it screams laziness on the Devs part. Whether that was from feeling rushed because of the complaints about it or what. But they really haven't shown us the creativity we know they have on this one. Calm Spirit being the counter to it was so good, because it meant players being tempted to mix up their meta build if they wanted to use it. Now, ain't gotta worry about that 4th slot, just continue using your gen perks and second chances. No need to worry anymore.
@Crowman said:
Darkness Revealed, ignoring issues with some maps and locker spawns, doesn't require a TR to work meaning stealth killers may get more value from it.
However, the same argument could really be made with current Ultimate Weapon and Darkness Revealed, because Ultimate Weapon was always better at finding survivors than Darkness revealed since it didn't care about locker spawns.
Darkness Revealed is better for locker reload killers due to them having a smaller Terror Radius than the rest of the roster, so they couldn't get value out of Ultimate Weapon properly. But what makes it niche, with people not really opting for it atm even as those two killers, is the locker spawn sparsity like you mentioned. Ultimate Weapon is just such a good perk as it is that it can be used by the whole roster (minus Huntress and Trickster, maybe minus Myers too) and you get guaranteed value out of it.
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Let's just stop and examine what Ultimate Weapon now plays like:
If Distortion is in play, the Killer now doesn't get any detection on that Survivor, ie not knowing they're in that area for certain. But on top of that, the Survivor not only counters it by being hidden from them, but they start to immediately get their immunity from Ultimate Weapon back again due to both being Terror Radius related. So most likely you will never get value from Ultimate Weapon if Distortion remains pseudo-meta like it currently is. So, just like in my post, Ultimate Weapon has been gutted. It's an atrocious nerf. And you'll probably never see Ultimate Weapon used outside of weak gimmick/theme build.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686089#Comment_3686089
I also used certain perks. It's not the first of those challenges I do. I always try to get challenges done ASAP because they usually only annoy me (like "hide in the TR for 120s without getting found"). I have a semi aggressive playstyle, but nothing changes the fact that I cannot do challenges well where the killer needs to chase me. BECAUSE THEY DON'T. It's like I don't exist. If they chase me, they do it for a bit, get stunned multiple times and then leave and ignore me for the rest of the match. Stalking other survivors then just to get the challenge is dumb. Because all that time I'm doing nothing.
So you say, just because you were lucky, others "need to be smarter"? What if I had that baby killer in my first match when I tried it? Super ez? A friend of mine got really lucky today with that stupid No Mither challenge from Tome 11 (escape with only No Mither). We had a Plague who did not realized he had the perk and nothing else. I remember needing a lot of tries for that as well, because killers just tunneled you out, as they knew you had nothing to use to counter it. Is it ez, because he got it pretty easily? No.
My main problem is that we also do not know what other survivors have to do as quests. If there is a survivor only doing totems for a challenge, I can accept that and maybe help a bit. But only seeing that one Claudette only doing bones can be frustrating if you don't know. Same with unhook challenges. Such information should probably only be available when hitting ESC during a match to avoid lobby shopping.
You're obsessed with "Killers need to be bad to get challenges done". This fixation is so bizarre. You do realise good Killers are more aware of their time restraints than other players are. Meaning baits and mind games work against them since they know they need to get a hit quickly, obviously not every bait will work, but in a tile that they need to hit or the chase gets prolonged, the pressure will make them go for hits that could catch a Survivor that's not expecting it out (eg at a pallet that they are predicting will be camped or at a window they're expecting a panicked vault at). So, just like my point from the last reply, these challenges can be achieved against ANY SKILL LEVEL. It's as that people are constantly fixating on the "but this never happens", it does, and smart Survivors know this. So yes, if people actually put some intelligent thought behind their approach to challenges, and the match their playing for it in, they should have an easier time of it.
Are you not listening to what I'm saying, everything I'm talking about should clue you in that I don't play this game at a low level and need to rely on luck to do a challenge like this. Of course players are gonna get it quick against Killers who whiff every match for no good reason or don't have the game awareness to know what perks they're going against etc. But what I said above covers this stuff.
You're tying me saying this challenge is easy to other ones. It's a stretched out argument and it doesn't work. I mean, one would expect that a player trying to get a challenge done would actively go for it. So in an unhook challenge, you'd think if they wanted it done badly they would linger nearby to make sure they're the first one there. Or use Kindred to see whether it's worth rushing in to get it based on their teammates location. So it isn't really necessary to see what your teammates are trying to do, as ultimately, it shouldn't really matter to the grand picture most of the time. Outlier matches aren't worth latching on to. Survivors already have so much intel and stuff to see on the HUD, it'd be crazy to flood it with every detail. Talk about hand holding.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685365#Comment_3685365
The real problem?
That I should not need 20+ matches to finally be "lucky" to get an inexperienced killer who should not even play against me, so I get a challenge done. That challenges should only depend on YOUR actions and not the killer's as well. Almost all killer challenges only depend on your skill as killer and don't need the survivors to "mess up". You don't need a specific build to hit people from 10m away as Slinger for example. That's totally on you.
We're just going in circles. There was a time where I would agree that a lot of Survivor challenges are luck based or dependent on how the Killer plays and should be changed. But the more I see people complaining about them, the more I see why Survivor challenges are designed how they are. Survivor gameplay is the most boring thing in DBD. When you're not interacting with the killer it's just sat on a gen for 90 seconds. These challenges make it so you do need to go around doing stuff that you wouldn't normally do, triggering situations that wouldn't typically occur often.
With this challenge, however, it's not crazy out of the realm of typical gameplay for Survivors. You can have a Killer whiff at ANY SKILL LEVEL. As long as you put yourself in those situations you can get the challenge completed relatively easy. I get it that it took you ages to get it done, but that's your individual experience (shared by others of course) but my individual experience was that I knew exactly what I wanted to use to help get it, and I did that playstyle in the match and got it very quickly. (Also an experience shared by others)
As far as Survivor challenges go, with the wackier ones, this one is actually piss easy. Nothing will change my mind of that, because my experience validates me, and other people struggling with it simply just needed to be smarter with it tbh
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685228#Comment_3685228
My usual build: Object, Adre, OTR and WoO.
Without Object I will not get chased ever. Killers IGNORE ME. And no, I will not tbag or click at them so they finally do.
I will not change my build for mediocre perks that may not even work only to get sweaty Blights and Nurses in return.
Maybe you don't understand what the real problem is.
PS: I finally got it against a Baby Oni who swung at everything after 5 killers left the lobby beforehand.
Enlighten me then, what's the real problem?
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685081#Comment_3685081
I still need to throw all those matches to stalk a killer chasing another survivor to get this.
It needs a specific build for this specific quest which will not help you if you are not able to do what you want to.
The build boosts the likelihood of getting it regardless of how the match plays out. It does not require throwing in order to get it.
I'm seriously baffled that people are struggling with this challenge.
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I'm buying all these masks. But I am massively disappointed that they didn't get the same treatment as Iron Maiden.
I just hope that we see more masks released. All of them, from Self-titled/Iowa, Subliminal Verse, All Hope Is Gone, Gray Chapter and We Are Not Your Kind. I'd buy every single one without hesitation! And give us a Slipknot shirt! I wanna see Jane in it.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684432#Comment_3684432
I'm not seeking attention, I just point out that this challenge has become harder to complete over the time because certain mechanics were changed. The Devs might not even realize this because most of these challenges are "randomly pulled out of a pool". The "evade X basic attacks" challenge has existed for ages. I think it was added with the first David tome.
If you cannot accept my opinion and that it is different from yours, that is your problem.
As @anarchy753 said: Success with this challenge is not only tied to you but also the killer. You can use perks like MFT, Hope, Dark Theory, Breakout etc all you want. It does not matter if the killer does not make 3 mistakes. I got 2 whiffs many times, but not a 3rd. If the killer does not chase you in the first place or has Agitation (which happens a lot) you can try all you want.
And like I said, it isn't solely about Killers making mistakes. Whiffs happen a lot more than you think, in common situations even against the better Killers. There'll be times where they have to swing at a vault or a pallet in order to desperately get a down or hit because of the pressure of the other Survivors. There will also be times where they pick up a Survivor in a pallet but you cannot get the save anyway, but they'll swing out of the pallet, if you're nearby that's one whiff. There will also be times where they need to hit you when carrying to a hook because they may be greeding a Pain Res and if you bait it they'll whiff.
It isn't about luck or going against bad enough Killers. Nor do you have to throw the match in order to get it. I and many others have got this on our first or second attempt because we were smart in how we approached it in the first place.
What have you been doing in order to get this challenge done?
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@FatAngryB said:
@_Onyx_ To answer your question, for myself I'd say the build is a matter of preference. Though Mangled was nerfed and Oblivious has only so much use, it helps me overall to focus on momentum and hinder the enemy as much as possible. That way I not only can keep the sacrificing ongoing and letting them think they are safe to unhook until it's too late.
I damage every generator I come across that is even slightly repaired in my path, giving them time to unhook and for me to delay the match. It becomes a progressive cycle of "snowballing" if you prefer. Yes, I agree that Hexes are a hit or miss but with Undying it gives you the chance to have some insurance and time. And frankly that means I can delay until the inevitable happens. So far it's been beneficial, especially if I only hit 4 tokens, as by that point half the team is Dead On Hook anyways.
True, preference is really all that should matter when doing anything.
But when it comes to determining a 'best build' for a Killer, and I'm a huge advocate for the Killer meta should be unique to each character, meta builds should exist for each of them, not just a universal build shared amongst all the roster.
That being said, a Hex build in the current state of Totems, and with the Hex perks that currently exist, could never be a Killers strongest build. Purely because if that were to become their meta, Survivors would never let the build achieve anything at all due to them cleansing them all asap. A Killers strongest meta build needs to be something that the Survivors can expect to see commonly used but the build still has a huge impact on the match and allows the player to perform at their best level with value from all aspects of the chosen loadout.
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Hmm, yeah actually that does sound like a good idea. SWF is already strong enough as is with the intel they (potentially the whole team) have.
It would also give the hooked Survivor more reason to actually be focused on the game even while they're inactive.
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So, your solution is to make it so an undefendable play that Survivors can make right under the Killer's nose is to: still allow it happen, but then the Killer must now go for the Broken Survivor (who may have Made For This and be a better looper) to make sure that it can't happen for a second time consecutively?
Nah that's not a good idea. Just nerf For The People slightly so the Survivor can only activate it when the current heal action has been performed for at least 3 seconds. It doesn't gut the perk and it actually gives the Killer time to react and gives them a fair window to stop the play from happening altogether.
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@FatAngryB said:
Alright I'm back, weekends go by too quickly unfortunately.
For starters, @_Onyx_ , I honestly disagree with the idea that backwards lore interpretation and nerfing things that give Pinhead an edge against things survivors is fair. Survivors have plenty of tools killers can't outdo such as flashlight spam circling, unless you come equipped with perks to deal with specific situations you can't properly prepare for. Granted there has to be a struggle regardless to be fair, it certainly feels survivor-sided no matter how you look at it. And I am speaking from experience.
The fact of the matter is like I said, his abilities require either more durability or apply the hinder effect or something that makes it worthwhile to bother using at all. As it stands now it feels detrimental, not beneficial to use.
I just managed to finish my perk build with him, it's quite solid as I see it:
Hex: Plaything, Devour Hope, Undying
Scourge Hook Perk from Pinhead, forget the name.
Simply, you hook others like mad, keep an eye on your totems, use your chains to pinpoint others and utilize your powers as best you can to the fullest. Summons & Chain Hunt. Pinhead is my Number 1, with Pyramid Head being my number 2. I guess I have a sadist fetish for Killer designs, haha.
I agree that the nerf to Engineer's Fang was completely unnecessary. The nerfs to solve time add-ons were necessary though.
It's definitely not detrimental. Cenobite compares the most to Clown in how you're supposed to utilise the power. You don't have to spam Chains whenever you are chasing. It's best to time them so you actually get something from it. No point Binding someone before they vault or drop a god/safe pallet coz they're gonna break free and get free distance anyway.
I compare him to Clown because they both share the same "heavily punished for whiffing their power". That's why you should be using their Chains with forethought and prediction. If they have an 'option-select' scenario, where regardless of what you choose to do in that tile they get a safe alternative, then there's no real need to use the Chains. Also, you can bait using his power too. Not like Cenobite is black and white where you have to use his power and if you miss you lose. There's options open to their play styles.
The only thing I think would change about Cenobite is that an aspect of Engineer's Fang should be base kit. Hitting a Survivor with a chain that was summoned at max casting range and has travelled at least 5 meters to Bind a Survivor should Injure a Survivor from Healthy.
How effective is that build? Hexes are hit and miss, especially Plaything. Considering Cenobite has Oblivious already in his kit, it doesn't sound like it would give as much benefit as it would do on another Killer. I can see how Devour and Undying on a Cenobite that has momentum can really do damage, but it all depends on how the Survivors play around the Box. Gift Of Pain? Since the Mangled nerf, is it worth using? I had a phase of using it but it felt like I didn't notice the benefit of it even when the perk gave me value.
My build which I would say, on paper, is Cenobite's strongest, even vs a SWF, is:
- Blood Warden
- Make Your Choice
- Ultimate Weapon
- Coup De Grace
And then Original Pain and Impaling Wire as the add-ons.
The idea being Survivors physically cannot body block this build, they cannot solve the Box safely, they can't loop safer pallets normally, and they get trapped in without the need to. It allows to tunnel efficiently and rewards the Killer risking going far from a hook.
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As a Clown main, I disagree with all of this.
You should never be putting yourself in a situation where the Survivor gets access to the Antidote cloud.
The Antidote should be used in a situation when a Survivor is going to be getting a rushed vault regardless of whether you would have Intoxicated them or not. You throw an Antidote and then if you get the hit before they vault, great. If not, as you follow them, the Antidote kicks in and Invigorates you. -- The other instance of when to use an Antidote is when you about to commit to a break action, whether that be a gen or a pallet mid-chase. You throw the bottle at your feet, then by the time the break finishes, you are Invigorated and can catch up to the Survivor much more swiftly.
Every other time you should just be using the Tonic. And only in situations where it means that you get a hit where you normally wouldn't have. Or if the Survivor has too much distance that you can avoid a time wasting w-key simulator. No point using a Tonic if they are just gonna get the vault or the pallet drop anyway.
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You both make it sound like Killers never make mistakes. If you put them in a situation where they have to commit to an attack then you can get progress. Using a build that puts the Killer in those situations more than usual, of course you're more likely to get the challenge completed. Jesus, some people just like complaining about everything just to get attention.
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Cenobite is best described as a 4v1 orientated, close-mid range Killer.
1. His power has a restricted turn rate because of the effect it has on Survivors. Since you are in control of where the Chain is summoned, there is little reason why the Chain should have a huge turn rate. Most of the time you'll be deploying it as close to the Survivor as possible, almost like a Nurse Blink.
The Chains take 1 second each to break, or instantly when using the environment to break them (I know you know this already). This is designed when chasing a Survivor in a tile where their movement is required to be Hindered, but not too heavily where the Survivor feels like they are always gonna get hit if they don't dodge the Chain. Especially considering it's designed with Nurse style gameplay in mind. There's no real need to use his power from a long distance unless you're trying to interrupt the Lament Configuration being solved or interrupt a repair or heal, so the turn rate is fine imo.
2. Franklin's Demise used to apply to the Configuration when hitting a Survivor. They nerfed this by making Special items function differently to normal items in the sense that they do not require the Survivor to swap their item for it. It's permanently held by them until the criteria is met to use it.
The lore not being honoured 1-for-1 is something that's forgivable, considering if they made the power function like it did in the films, Cenobite would have a very easy time constantly keeping Survivors Chain Hunted. This 'backwards way' of the lore representation makes it so the gameplay works in a non-frustrating manner.
3. Cenobite could do with some more variety in add-ons, especially after the nerf they received. However, Cenobite still has a lot of fun builds you can do with add-on mix-ups. Most killers cannot do any gimmick builds, let alone do a gimmick build that actually has some strength to it. But yeah, I agree they could change a lot of them to give them brand new functions.
Cenobite is one of those Killers where you need a build that compliments his power perfectly. You said at the start you have a build specifically for him to boost his strengths and minimise his weaknesses, what is that build?
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@Odwolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683434#Comment_3683434
I just got it using Breakout too. I was using Onyx's build but I switched Dramaturgy with Sprint Burst. I ended up only utilizing Breakout for the challenge in the match I got it in. The killer whiffed 3 attacks on me while he was carrying a survivor. I still think the challenge shouldn't have been but I'm glad I finally got it.
Good to hear, it's actually really simple with Breakout, like you found out, everyone's just making a meal of it lol
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@Bradcore said:
I had a killer challenge the other day where after hooking a survivor, a moving glyph would appear and I had to chase and catch it before it disappeared. I needed to get two of them in a single match I think it was. So after I got my hooks, I'm chasing this erratically moving glyph and the thing never moved too far from the guy in the hook. So when the match ended, everyone accused me of camping.
Hook them in the basement, it forces the route of it to go up the stairs so you can just meet it at the top when it spawns