Zertix
Zertix
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Yes you are a part of rare species and playing how you described is exactly how to get good at the game.
Soft camping or tunneling are strategies that might help you win and rank up. But eventually you will go against a group of very good survivors and will hit a skill wall and start blaming the game/devs because you couldn't win.
Even in red ranks, I can't count the times I played against killers that don't know how to run T/L walls, killer shack, jungle gyms correctly. I rarely see a killer trying to zone me out to dead zones.
I have full respect for killers that are trying to improve rather than win at any cost. I get disappointed when I play against a killer with 3000 hours and still need to drop a chase and go back to tunnel an unhooked survivor in order to win.
As a survivor, there is no shame when you die when playing against a skilled killer. This is probably why you don't see a lot of salty massages.
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I agree that gens can be completed very fast "if" the survivors play optimally. This is a big "if" because we all know solo survivor experience is a nightmare.
In the same time, if I see my team mate getting tunneled (which is very common), I am gonna finish my main objective as fast as possible without wasting a second in cleansing totems, healing or opening chests. I am not gonna waste the time that my team mate is buying for us using our limited resources (pallets).
The clock is ticking for killers and survivors in the same time, and not only for killers. The longer is the match, the more dangerous the map is, the less is the chance of survival. We don't gen rush because we don't want the killer to have fun, but because we are pressured by killers to do so.
Adding an additional objective is very complicated. It cannot be done without taking into consideration some killers (nurse, hillbilly, spirit) and maps such as shelter woods.
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Yes it is worth it. Don't even think about it.
This is coming from someone who switched from PS4 to PC after 100-200 hours.
Side note: killer queue times are much longer in PC.
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@BigBlackMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/602747#Comment_602747
The ability to just run to a corner and heal infinitely negates any and all pressure a Killer applied in chasing and hitting you. Instead of having to find a teammate or use a medkit, you just lol off to a hidey hole and heal. Plus it enables startegies like hook cycling; zerg the hook, and just take hit and heal so that a fresh person can always run in and bodyblock while you chase one. Add in flashlights and it gets even worse; it's the extra factor in the equation that can make it impossible to win unless you have a reliable instadown like on Myers, Leatherface or Billy
Have you ever heard of the no heal meta?
A survivor healing in a corner with self care for 32-40 seconds gave you all the pressure you need.
As a killer, 4 self care and 4 flashlights are better than built in hex: ruin. I would take that over 4 toolboxes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/602145#Comment_602145
Sadly most killers are struggling and constantly fighting against the clock even with Ruin. Good team can power through it and some maps have so many safe pallets it is impossible to put pressure without resorting to 3 gen strat which can also fail in the end. I am Myers main and some maps are just pallet havens for survivors - good example is Thomson House. This map is a nightmare with the amount of safe pallets next to the jungle gyms etc. Also big maps are problematic for killers who are forced to walk all across the map to patrol gens.
I agree.
4 very good survivors are very difficult to beat unless you are playing nurse. If they decide to do their objective optimally, most killers can't really do much to stop them. But to be fair, getting a good team in solo queues is not very common.
Some maps have a lot of safe pallets (example: temple of purgation). What I don't see very often is killers trying to zone me towards dead zones, even in red ranks which make it even worse for them.
Most killers I go against also don't know when to drop a chase (or don't want to). Chasing a good survivor in a good position will make you lose all your map pressure. Playing killer involves a lot of decision making; mastering a specific killer power, and running tiles perfectly is not really enough to win against 4 very good survivors in a neutral map.
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As a survivor, I don't really hate ruin. The matches end way too fast without it. Nobody gets a chance to do anything which is not fun. I prefer the long intense matches where you barely escape or die.
Regarding the totems spawns, they are not perfect and definitely can be improved. But hex totems are hex totem; they are supposed to be found. Even if they are changed to be well hidden, people will eventually learn all the possible locations.
In my opinion, if you manage to get your first hook before hex:ruin is cleansed, the perk has already done its purpose. It is your job to maintain the map pressure.
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Another "us vs them" thread.
Please take the time and read all the patch notes, you will realize it is not how you think it is.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/596265#Comment_596265
This is because you are a biased survivor main, looping allows you to verse the entirety of your opposing team on your own.
That's a problem with the balance of the game, you are not the hero of the story, you are not supposed to verse the killer and win, at similar skill levels.
You are supposed to be given the chance to escape by using your number advantage.
And if a lot of loopy loppers would leave, there may be more prole coming because the game is a horror game not a joke like it is now.
All of your lobbying brought dbd to be in this situation where basically every killer is designed to try and counter the parasitic entity known as looping
Making assumptions about someone with no basis is very easy. I can do the same but it is not gonna make me look smart nor make my argument stronger.
Believe it or not, not everyone that disagree with you is a "biased survivor main". There are some people that genuinely care about the general health of the game because they love it and enjoy it. If you took the time to read my comments record, you would see that I admit that there are balance issues on both sides.
The fact that you want the only skillful interaction between killers and survivors to be removed is staggering. But again, you don't consider this interaction skillful. There is nothing I can say to make you see something that obvious.
I am out of here, have a nice day.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
Agreed looping must go, survivors need to be able to break line of sight and escape the killer.
Running in circles is simply stupid for this type of game
Do you know why the legion before his rework, was the worst thing that ever happened to this game (check the steam reviews yourself)? Do you also know why the nurse is the most heated discussion topic in this forum?
This is because these two killers take all the hours that you have invested in this game and throw them in the garbage.
Looping is what makes the difference between someone who just bought the game and someone who has thousands of hours. It is what gives this game a third dimension. Being outplayed and outplaying your opponent is what keeps people playing; it is the fun part in this game. I am pretty sure the devs realize this already.
Removing looping or nerfing it to the point where it is no longer a reliable option would push a lot of people away from the game (including me).
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I vote for cross play between PS4 and Xbox only. The advantage that PC players would have due to controller sensitivity and frame rate issues on console would not be fair for console players. If these issues are resolved, then the more the merrier.
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The insane queue times for survivors is what made me switch from PS4 to PC. I can't think of any downsides to cross play between PS4 and Xbox. So yeah, cross play sounds like a great idea.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/593156#Comment_593156
Did you even watch it? 10 games / 1 instaheal. Sick preparations for a tryhard nurse lol.
Most of them were even too stupid to use dead hard at the right time. One good survivor, and another tryin to cleanse dull totems. Yeah they almost played optimal dude, almost. totally prepared with everything.
I just hope nurse gets totally blown out of the water, utterly garbage like they did with legion and gf.
Then I will just play with 3 friends, use all crutches and ruin killer experience with no worries about any killer.
Alright, then the depip squad proved nothing as well. You can't just dismiss his efforts and accept the depip squad experiment, not for the reasons you have mentioned. With all due respect, this makes you look very biased.
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You guys keep using the depip squad as an evidence of how strong co-ordinated survivors can be when they play optimally, but disregard this experiment because the streamer is playing optimally? Please guys stop the double standards.
I mean, his target is a bit too extreme even for a god tier nurse so it does make sense if he played super tryhard. Especially if the survivors are well prepared.
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Addonless Hillbilly and Spirit (even though she has no reliable counterplay) are not OP, but the nurse is a completely different story.
The thing with hillbilly and spirit is that they are only strong in the good hands. Which means these two killers become viable only when a certain skill ceiling is crossed.
To answer your question, I think MOST killers can be buffed to hillbilly/spirit level but I am not so sure if the "skill ceiling" can be added to them. Therefore, I don't think it is a good idea to do so. ScottJund have suggested very interesting ideas about buffing/tweaking killers in his recent video and I agree with most of them.
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@Jago said:
The only thing that game needs is more killer like nurse, that break the game mechanics so we have a richer experience.
Bring back the S++ tier BHVR.
I am assuming you also want all the pallets and windows to be removed? Do you also think that looping is an exploit and require no skills ... or brain? And that stealth is the optimal way to play this game?
Dear devs, please add a game mode where killers can play against bots because obviously these guys don't want to play a balanced game where players of equal skills have a fair chance of winning.
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I have been watching this streamer for 4 months even though I don't speak Korean. He is a great DBD player (killer & survivor).
I am shocked and surprised by how far he is willing to go in order to prove how broken the nurse is. Getting 400/400 kills is a bit too extreme, even for a god-tier nurse but I am excited for the result of this experiment.
The sad part is, people who keep defending this killer refuse to pull their heads out of the sand. So let us hope his efforts are not wasted.
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@FredKrueger said:
Nurses base kit is fine. Some of her add-ons could use a nerf though. And also, any really good player can make ANY killer look OP. I've watched matches with tru3 on YouTube with him using leather face and legion that would have you screaming their "too OP" And need a nerf. If your playing survivor against nurse the same way you play against every other killer, your gonna lose almost everytime. Nurse is beatable and can be countered, but you have to play with a whole different strategy and a lot don't get that. Quit trying to nerf the couple viable red rank killers we have. Let's try buffing the not so good killers so they all stand on fair ground.
This looks funny coming from someone who never played as nurse, or against a good nurse on PC. Believe it or not, nurse is a floating joke on PS4 compared to PC (I know you play on PS4 from your comments/posts).
Watching a few videos on Youtube is not really enough to form an opinion and participate in a balancing discussion, especially when the topic of discussion is "the nurse".
No hate towards Console players. It is just ... the nurse is not as good as she is on PC
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@GrootDude said:
We need to see a really pro nurse against other pro survivors so that we can (finally) settle this.
This will never ever settle down. As I said before, a god nurse would make good survivors look like rank 21 survivors. Once a chase start, they will go down in a matter of seconds and the tips and tricks mentioned here by the gurus of DBD won't work. So it will always be "she won because survivors played bad".
I have escaped in some matches against some really good nurses, but I am not delusional to say that I have countered her. In fact, I got my *** handed to me every time I got found.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589341#Comment_589341
You are grasping for straws right now.
Stating facts is not grasping for straws, especially when the other side is not providing any counter argument. Use the metaphor in the right context next time.
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After the amount of ebony moris that I have seen when playing against GF, I can say that his kill rate (at the moment) should not be taken seriously. Wait for sometime.
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4 awesome random survivors is rarer than a god tier nurse and they are not winning almost every game. The escape rate of 4 SWF (which represent 3-6% of the playerbase) is around 50% while solos have an escape rate of 40%. The nurse on the other hand has an insane kill rate (I don’t have the exact number but somebody posted in another thread that it is around 70%). Do you see the problem here?
I don’t think there is anything to be gained from arguing with someone who disregarded all the arguments and came to the conclusion that we are posting in this thread because we dislike the nurse, and think that looping is an abuse of the game mechanics and does not involve any thinking, be here I am.
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@AIG1992 said:
Killer who takes skill = people want nerfed. We might as well start talking about swf nerfs too then!
Huntress is arguably the hardest killer to master and I rarely see someone complaining about her. Hillbilly is the second strongest killer in the game (in my opinion), and mastering his chainsaw takes more skill and time than mastering the nurse's blinks, and nobody is complaining about him. In fact, hillbilly is my favorite killer to go against.
So it is not like how you think it is.
4 very good and efficient SWF is ridiculous as well, I am not denying that. Sorry to disappoint you but there is no bias against killers here.
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"Ok, when do killers get the freedom to choose their playstyle then?"
Since day 1 you have the freedom to choose your playstyle. It is up to you to decide if you want to camp, tunnel, or spread the pressure.
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Yes the game offers different playstyles and the nurse does not allow you to pick one. And no, I don’t mindlessly loop a killer, pallet loop, stun, and t-bag and I don’t know you can “mindlessly loop a killer”. Despite what some killers here try to convince themselves, looping does take skill and involves using your brain. My playstyle changes depending on the circumstances of the match which again, the nurse does not allow me this freedom. Not to mention that “stealth” is not the most effective/efficient playstyle.
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“Once again you are not acknowledging that the best player SHOULD win…”
Yeah the best player should win in most cases. The problem with the nurse is that once the chase starts, there is literally nothing you can do to avoid getting down (assuming the person playing her is really good). So, it is no longer “the best player should win”. A more accurate statement would be “if she is good, she will win”. My best chance of survival is to spread out, do gens and pray that I don’t get found. The fact that I have to hide from her in order to stand a chance is just a proof of how absurd the nurse is.
“You act like the Nurse is as easy to play with as Wraith. She's hard as hell to master. Once you master her you deserve to be rewarded…”.
Firstly, I never said or implied that; please don’t put words in my mouth. Secondly, no killer should be rewarded by easy consistent 4k just because he is hard to play.
“…no try hard nurse is going to give up Ruin/BBQ//DH/NC/CI/Rancor…”
Believe it or not, the best nurses I have ever played against did not use any of the perks that you have listed (except BBQ). All the tips that you have mentioned are only useful against a bad or mediocre nurse. In addition, you cannot stay completely hidden and do gens in the same time, and with all the tracking perks that exist, stealth is not really a reliable option.
I think we have are already established in other threads that a perk/build should not be considered as a counter play to a specific killer/addon, so I am not going to repeat myself.
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I can confirm, after a few matches it gets very annoying. I just finished playing a game (against a trapper) with baby teammates. I did 4 gens solo (no exaggeration). Guess what? the match ended with ... 4 gens done. The killer didn't even camp or tunnel.
I am Rank 6 at the moment, teammates were rank 16-12.
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It is funny how a lot of people here refused to take the video as an example of how broken the nurse is because “the player is too good” which is exactly what we have been trying to prove in these types of threads. A player can be too good with the nurse to point where he make you feel helpless in a chase, because the nurse does not obey Dead by Daylight mechanics.
In addition, some people disregarded the video because the survivors are not SWF which makes no sense to me. Solo survivors represent the majority of the player base and should not be neglected in a balance discussion.
By the way, any gameplay against a god nurse would make you look like a rank 21 survivor because there is literally nothing you can do other than hide behind rocks, hold M1 on a generator and hope that you don’t get found.
The fact that the nurse has been untouched for three years baffles me, even though she contradicts the balancing philosophy of the devs.
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I started playing the game with 2 friends during the free sale on PS4 (August/September 2018). We used to spend 10-15 minutes looking for a lobby just to be camped to death, and then repeat. After playing for less than 20 hrs, the camping pushed my friends away from the game and I switched to PC after 100-200 hrs. I am pretty sure that the playerbase would be at least twice as large if camping was not a thing.
After the recent rank reset, the matchmaking system decided that it is ok for me (as a rank 11 survivor and rank 3 before the reset) to play with rank 18/19 survivors/killers who just bought the game (some of them have less than 20 hrs of gameplay). It was very obvious that they were not having a great time; I felt really bad for them.
So yeah, the game is not friendly for new players and especially survivors.
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In my opinion, MoM in its current state is not only too weak, but it is worse than Deja Vu. At least Deja Vu does not force you to run around the map giving the killer free hits. MoM promotes inefficient gameplay and screw over the entire team. Overall, it has a net negative effect on the outcome of the match.
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First of all, I will admit that you surprised me. I rarely see someone reasonable here in the forum.
I agree that killers should always have the upper hand in a 1 vs 1 situation (such as during a chase). But the survivor should never feel helpless and that there is little to nothing that he can do (which is the case when going against a good spirit or nurse). Personally speaking, the only fun part about playing survivor is the interaction with the killer. Therefore, a killer that makes me feel helpless removes all the fun from the game.
Yeah, a lot of people consider the spirit stronger than hillbilly; This is why I said "arguably". I think hillbilly has much greater map pressure and snowballing potential which makes him overall a better killer. In addition, it is very difficult to loop a skilled hillbilly who can drift/curve around loops (especially with double engravings or insta chainsaw addons). This is just my personal opinion.
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"I'm pretty sure this should be taken to mean more killers who are consistently viable".
Hillbilly is arguably the second strongest killer in the game but still has some counter play. The hag which has the highest kill rate in red ranks is viable but still does not make you feel helpless in a chase. The spirit though is a completely different story.
"Survivors wind up mindgaming me as Spirit a lot, doubling back when I'm phase walking etc."
I think your personal experience with the spirit should not be taken as a basis to asses her strength/potential in a chase. It is like saying I can't 4k when playing omega blink nurse, so she must be fine the way she is.
The problem with the spirit is that the chase turn into coin flipping, but the odds are heavily in the favour of the spirit. Even the shack pallet is no longer the god pallet when going against the spirit.
"Where are all these perfect Spirit players you're encountering who never miss anything?"
I never said that. To tell you the truth, I run into more bad to mediocre spirits than very good spirits. She has a very high skill gap but still this does not change the fact that she has no reliable counter play.
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Do you mean adding more killers that have no reliable counterplay? This would be the fastest way to make killer queue times jump to +5 hours.
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Favorite: any map that is not shelter woods or backwater swamp.
Least favorite: shelter woods; Bad RNG can ######### this map up really bad. I once played a match where in one side of the map there were two LT walls and 1 unsafe pallet, absolutely nothing in the middle except that useless big tree (as always). In total there were probably 8 pallets most of them were unsafe.
In my opinion shelter woods needs rework more than Badham preschool.
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I don't check the forums very often but my impression is that the situation here in most threads is a war between killers vs survivors, with killers being more vocal about their frustrations.
I feel like most people here are looking at the other side as an enemy. Some killers here even admitted that they enjoy destroying baby survivors that just bought the game after rank reset. This will come only from someone who holds grudges against the other role. Having a fruitful discussion with someone who considers you as an enemy is almost impossible.
Some people even make posts complaining that the devs don't listen to them. Thank god they don't listen to their biased opinion, if they listened to them, the game would have died long time ago.
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Knowing your teammates build before the beginning of the match is an interesting idea. I would like to see how the survivors use this information to affect the outcome of the match. It is also gonna decrease the gap between playing solo and SWF.
The downside is that a lot of people would dodge Claudettes with Urban Evasion.
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I am assuming you mean spine chill? You would still need to pair it with Iron will in order to do well against a good spirit with prayer beads though.
Even if you decided that dedicating 1 or 2 perk slots is a good idea (which is not worth it in my opinion), there is no way to force your teammates to run the same build/perk. You have protected your self but everyone else is still vulnerable. So in reality, you still don't stand a chance if your teammates are being demolished. We all know it is a 1 vs 4 game and not 1 vs 1.
This is why in general a perk/build should not be considered as a counter play to a killer/addon, not unless the survivors know which killer they would play against before the beginning of the match.
In addition, your theory of a viable killer would be correct if you look at survivors as a single entity. But there are 4 survivors of different skill levels; 1 bad survivor out of the 4 can change the outcome of the match which is why I think your theory is not valid.
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Firstly: the idea of dedicating your entire build to be "anti prayer beads spirit" is not very appealing.
Secondly: a lot of killers are more viable than you think with some specific addons unless you run into a group of 4 very good and organized survivors (which is not very common). However, if your definition of a "viable killer" is easy consistent 4k then the nurse is the only viable killer without any addons.
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This is a nice idea but I don't think it is gonna stop the camping/tunneling. These guys will always find a reason to do so. If Barbique and chilli, BT and DS did not stop these people from going after the unhooked survivor, I dont think any amount of bloodpoint would.
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Yeah I go against a lot of campers after rank reset.
I feel really bad for the people who just started playing the game. You may argue whether camping is a legit strategy or not, but it is definitely not fun. I also think it is one of the reasons why there is only a very small growth in the player base after free-to-play weekends. No body want to spend 5 minutes in a lobby and then 2 minutes on a hook, and then repeat.
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Pressing the button itself doesn't require any skill but "when" to press it does.
Yeah, if you are gonna use DH to bait a swing then it is a useless perk.
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Can you please explain to me how dead hard, a perk that activates when you press a button and when timed accurately can grant you a second chance is not skillful?
Dead hard is arguably the most skillful perk in the game.
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Why would someone feel satisfied by destroying survivors which are much below his skill level?
I never feel happy or anything when playing against a killer below my skill level. If anything, i feel bad for him.
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Looping a skilled killer takes no skill? With all due respect, this is the most absurd thing I have read in a while. I am pretty sure this is what you try to convince your self in order to feel better after being looped for 5 gens.
You guys keep pushing the devs to nerf one role while overlooking the other role. Killer queue times are already longer than they used to be and no amount of BPS would fix that. The day will come when you guys will sit in lobby simulators for ever and nobody joining in. At that moment I would say "You have made your bed, now lie in it".
This is going to be my last reply in this thread because I don't think this discussion is going to lead to anything productive.
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Thank you for sharing the video
I am not going to give any comments on the skill level of the survivors or killer in this video. But I will say that hiding from nurse is not a counterplay; It is just .... hiding so that you don't have to deal with her.
Yes you can spread out, do the objective as quick as possible and pray that you don't get found but this is not countering the nurse. It is exactly the opposite which is avoiding her.
"AVOIDING HER IS NOT A COUNTER PLAY"
As a survivor, I don't want to feel helpless and that my skill and all the hours that I dedicated for this game mean nothing. I didn't play survivor for thousands of hours to hold M1 and hide behind a rock (this get very boring after playing the game for several hours). I play for the interaction between the survivor and the killer and this is what keep me coming back to play more. A killer that force me to hide behind a rock and hold M1 removes all the fun from the game.
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The hardest to go against assuming the player is really good: 1) Nurse. 2) spirit. 3) Hillbilly
My most favorite killer to go against is Hillbilly.
Killers I hate the most: trapper and hag.
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Yes, 4 efficient and coordinated SWF are very difficult to beat. Infinities, Instaheals, DS and MoM (pre nerf) are/were broken. But If you are sincere about balancing the game, then it should be done for both sides (killers and survivors) because omega blink, 5 blinks, prayer beads, iridescent head, eboni mori ... etc are ridicules as well. Let us be objective and not focus on balancing one side and overlook the other.
I never said I want him to beat a god tier nurse 1v1 and escape. I just want him to show me the "counter play".
It is funny how at one point you admit that you are trash at the game (sorry, these are your words and not mine) and then later you would want to go against a god tier nurse and show everyone that she is not broken.
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@PickCollins Just because she has a high skill gap does not mean it is ok for her to be broken.
If I play survivor for 3000 hours, is it ok for me to dominate every game and win consistently?
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@Wubsyy__ Then you are not a good nurse, period.
I reach red ranks every season and nurse is the most killer that I go against. If she has any counter play, me and everyone else would have learned it by now and you wouldn't see anybody complaining here.
A killer that teleports ignoring all the survivors' defenses with no reliable counterplay is not fundamentally broken?
If she is not fundamentally broken, then why don't you show us a video of you countering a god tier nurse? I would be more than happy to watch it.
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The problem is that some people here don’t want the game to be balanced. Whenever a killer is touched by the devs, a lot of people here get panic attacks and act like it is the end of the world (just like what happened when Ghostface was tweaked).
What some people want is a broken game where a killer that has 100 hrs in the game can demolish a group of survivors that has 3000 hrs. Whenever you argue with them, they give you the “killer is the power role” argument.
It amazes me how some people think that infinities, instaheals, DS & MoM (pre nerf) are broken, but nurse, eboni mori, prayer beads and iridescent head are fine.
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In that case, 4 tryhard SWF is also balanced, you .... just need to git gud