ZaKzan
ZaKzan
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- ZaKzan
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having 3 tiers of perks is just god awful, and it also severely limits creativity when it comes to perk design, since they have to be created in a way that they're incrementally stronger over 3 tiers.
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@valvarez4 said:
That”s because they can”t improve killers more, they have 70% of kill rate yet. Also the only counterplay against some killers/addons/campers is genrushing.
Please tell me, with a straight face, that Pig and Michael are some of the strongest killers in the game
Pre nerf pyramid head is one of the weaker killers in the game
Huntress is one of the weakest killers in the game
And Nurse is by far the weakest killer in the game.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1753844#Comment_1753844
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YNZDNXF0I402/image.png
Gonna use this as an example map. Lets say I spawn in the bottom left. I KNOW the likelihood that a survivor spawning directly opposite of me (top right) is basicly 100%, however its abit of a walk and often times good to not go directly there right away. While I dont expect anyone to have spawned ontop of me in the bottom left, its pretty common theyd still spawn on the same side of the map as me and would be in the bottom right. Perks like whispers work wonders for verifying these hunches. Its probably like a 50% chance that someone is there and its pretty quick to check upon spawning in.
Correct, like I said, what I would do is beeline to the upper right, but I would be looking as I went in the other spots for any signs of a survivor, If I see a survivor or scratch marks im going to go to that location, if I see nothing then I'm not, as it's far more likely survivors spawned in the upper right rather than right next to me. Those survivors are also more likely to be running freely since they are not within my TR and I can see their scratch marks. The problem with survivors spawning next to the killer is that the survivors can instantly start hiding, not showing any signs they are in that area. If the killer runs whispers, that's a different story.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1753839#Comment_1753839
The ol’ “the OP must be lying” rhetoric.
Bye. I’m not responding to you anymore.
Point out where I called you a liar. I'm telling you that you are alerting the killer somehow for them to find you so close to them at the start, because it is not worth it to check around your spawn when you're killer.
I am telling you that it's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with you. If you can't hide, you have just spawned with all tiles fully loaded with pallets, meaning you can run the killer for quite a while before they catch you. Get better at hiding or get better at chases, then your problem becomes much less detrimental.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1753830#Comment_1753830
Typically spawns are pretty predictable. I usually have a fairly good idea of where a survivor will be based off of my own spawn location. The only time im really scratching my head is when I get spawned in the middle of the map.
but do you take the time to thoroughly check your immediate vicinity where you spawned? Survivors can spawn quite close to the killer, but the more likely spots are farther away, i usually don't spend any time, just a few quick looks as im beelining to the farthest gens. If the survivor is hiding, there's no way I'll find them and there's no reason to look for them because of the chances they are there in the first place.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1753823#Comment_1753823
That is NOT what I’m doing at all.
I’m literally just starting to walk, and within 5 to 10 seconds hear the TR before I’ve even got my bearings and get spotted before I even know where the killer is coming from and before I can stealthily skink away.
Unless the killer is running whispers, it is unlikely they would even attempt to find you so close to them, unless they've spotted you or your scratch marks.
I rarely take the time to search for survivors in areas that are close to where I've spawned, I usually beeline towards the farthest gens first. There is no reason for the killer to check right next to them and waste time, especially considering the chances of a survivor spawning so close to them are small. The farther away you are from the killer, the more likely they will check the area more thoroughly.
Really you just need to learn how to hide better, or learn how to run the killer better when you get into a chase.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1753819#Comment_1753819
No not a couple. It’s starting to become so frequent that it’s a couple every HOUR.
It’s driving me mental. I’m not implying it’s the killers fault. But the spawn algorithm needs to be changed.
if spawn rates were less random, you would get found even more often as the killer would be able to predict where you spawned. So instead of 30 seconds a couple times an hour, it will be 45 seconds most games.
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stop running and leaving scratch marks, take advantage of the environment, hide.
I'm tired of the survivors finishing a gen and getting another one 25% done by the time I get to them from the other side of the map because maps are so large.
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@bdzr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1747714#Comment_1747714
with the blight, he can constantly spam the ability and after his rush is over he can hit around the corner with a 90 degree turn like a normal hit would be. doctor is just constant spam denying pallets vaults and everything and its constant spam that they dont have to wait for recharge
Blight cannot make sharp turns while rushing. He also cannot hit immediately after slamming into a wall. These are his weaknesses. If you play him, you'll start to recognize likely targets for him to slam off of, and as a survivor you can just rush towards these places when he rushes you.
When doctor is on you, you have to run to a tile and throw the pallet early, you then force the doctor to kick the pallet so you can run to another pallet. You don't loop him, you just take advantage of safe tiles.
If killer powers were easily countered, they would not be able to catch survivors at all.
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1751900#Comment_1751900
Personally I don’t have huge issues with Deathslingers. But you mention you’re one of the top players. Is that a list you made yourself?
Based on the leaderboards, I have ~1400 speared survivors downed. Not entirely a measure of skill, more of a measure of how long I've played deathslinger. Although you can make an assumption that the longer a person plays a killer and plays them to get better, they will get better.
Not saying I'm the best, but I'm a decent deathslinger and I can accurately shoot people. There are people that can quite easily juke me for 3 gens, and there are quite a few survivors that are good enough to time their dead hards just right to dodge hits too.
The problem with deathslinger is that the survivor has to actually try to survive, you don't need to do this with very many of the other killers, because there's a set amount of time they need to get to you, and you usually have enough of a grace to get to the nearest safe tile and loop them until they lose. At high levels, deathslinger is an anti good player killer, he prevents you from efficiently pathing, so you need to make that up by making him miss his shots, and you don't need to be too afraid of his shots if you aren't injured as you can use your speed boost to get to the other side of the map considering his movespeed and crutch perks like dead hard.
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You can do the same thing you do with huntress. Deathslinger is far weaker than huntress, especially considering addons.
I don't know if you know this, but the primary objective for the survivors is to do gens, not get in chases with the killer. He is well designed because he's one of the few killers that can actually catch survivors, provided the deathslinger has taken the time and effort into becoming good. He's just like any of the other high skill cap killers.
You have to actually think when you fight the deathslinger, you can't just beeline to the nearest safe tile like you can with other killers.
I'm one of the top 200 deathslinger players, and there are survivors that can run me for 3 gens pretty easily by juking properly and actually randomizing their movements. Most survivors try to juke, but they do it in ways that are predictable, when they bank right they always stop at a certain point, or they always wiggle right then left, never changing to left to right, or banking for a half a second one time then banking for 2 seconds the next time.
Deathslinger promotes dynamic play, and the chances of facing a truly godlike deathslinger, which there are probably less than 50 in the entire game, is very low. This means that it's probably an error on your end that you're getting caught by them.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1747783#Comment_1747783
I think that you are trying to say is that you can only hold w and waste as much of his time ad it takes for him to catch up. How do you loop a tile efficiently against a deathsligner? Hope they are bad so you'll have an easy time?
You loop a tile by either putting a wall between you and the deathslinger, or putting enough space between you two that when he hooks you, he cannot come around and hit you. If you force him to kick a pallet, you will gain enough distance to reliably dodge and juke his power. If you allow him to zone you in this situation, it is from poor choices on your end, not because he's strong.
Facing deathslinger requires dynamic play, not the mindless pathing that you take against pretty much every other killer.
If you don't like generators being the primary objective of survivors, then you shouldn't be playing survivor to begin with.
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You just can't hold W against him like you can pretty much every other killer. You have to think about your position and you have to keep an eye on him and you have to juke randomly. You cant throw a pallet and then beeline to the next tile like you can with other killers. Deathslinger promotes dynamic play, and the majority of survivors prefer static play, like going to a tile, looping it efficiently, throwing down the pallet, forcing the killer to kick the pallet, then beelining to the next tile.
Your choices do matter, the problem is you are making predictable choices. It is almost impossible to hit a survivor that truly randomizes their jukes. The deathslinger players that are very accurate are as rare as good nurse players.
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the game is killer sided until higher levels of play when survivors figure out how to exploit tiles to their fullest and understand proper pathing.
With facing blight, all you have to do is make 90 degree turns around objects and the blight's power is utterly useless. With doctor, all you have to do is throw pallets early to make his power useless.
At high levels of play, the game is completely survivor sided to the point that it's broken. The devs in charge of game balance do not play the game very much, and they make it a point to not take advice from players that do, so they mostly rely on spreadsheets to balance the game, which are skewed towards the average player.
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there's already a giant list of maps in this game, and most of them are poorly designed. That is not to say that the map reworks aren't poorly designed either, but the updates need to happen on the off chance that the devs accidentally add something good to them.
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90% of the time you're seeing this view. Skin color is obscured enough in the maps and unless you know every single cosmetic item for both characters, you will mistake claudette for elodie. Blame it on the devs for giving the black characters similar haircuts with the same color hair, not on the players that do not get a very good look at the survivors while playing the game, especially playing killer.
The white survivors have different hair cuts and different colors of hair, so they're a little easier to distinguish. Even then it's sometimes hard to distinguish which characters are which while in the middle of a game.
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survivors want to be able to counter killer powers so that the killer cannot possibly do anything to catch survivors. This is intended play.
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@Elena said:
If it looks like a baby then it is a baby [QUOTE]
You're either trolling or extremely ignorant and that is possibly a disrespectful thing to say without doing your research.
Have you ever heard of deformities? Ever heard of Noonan syndrome? You know, the genetic condition where normal parts of the body don't develop?
Yeah, maybe do research because if something looks like something, then it must be that shouldn't it? Oh, that person looks nice, they must be a nice person right? Wrong, looks are deceptive.
So who are you to tell people what something looks like to them? If it was just one or two people that thought that, then maybe you have a point, but that's not the case. Quite a few people are complaining about it.
Actually telling someone what they should believe something looks like is just about one of the most disrespectful things you could do, and to add to that calling them ignorant as well.
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@Jukenobi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1735917#Comment_1735917
This statement is even funnier because the game is easier for killers now than it has ever been. It's not one sided, you just aren't as good as other players. Can't win every game you play. There is always someone better than you in games, keep that in mind.
easier for killers != balanced game for both sides
Here's two hours of the best players in this game playing the best killers going against the best survivors in the game. Notice the kill rates.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGlKlpjc4aMThe devs do not balance this game around high level play, they balance it around mid level play, where the majority of players are. At this level, killers are much stronger than survivors because survivors don't efficiently path around tiles. When you get survivors that can fully exploit tiles, even one of the strongest players in the game playing the strongest killer in the game that avoids many obstacles, nurse, has a very hard time acquiring kills.
These tournaments are the best gauge for the balance of the game, as more variables are controlled than a regular match. All the players are all similarly skilled, so the balancing factor is purely game mechanics.
The game is very heavily survivor sided, this is an objective, provable fact. Saying that killers are in the best position they've ever been is fallacious and disingenuous as it completely ignores the objective fact that the game still very heavily favors survivors.
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Because that would take effort and extensive testing and would not make any money.
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the truly ironic thing about your post is that this game is entirely survivor sided
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you can't kill too hard in this game. Only survivors can rush their objectives and not be penalized for it, if the killer rushes their objective, they are punished. You have to let the survivors go and let them loop you to gain points.
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The game is just poorly optimized and poorly designed. If you don't have a top tier PC, you're just going to have problems running it. The devs don't seem to care as they seem to be valuing quantity over quality and just churning out buggy unoptimized garbage patches.
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Most of the balance issues with this game would be solved by the devs playing the game or consulting players who do, rather than rely on spreadsheets
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They're a good concept, but the way they were implemented was absolutely abhorrent.
Instead of offering more dynamic gameplay and strategy, they mostly boil down to removing infinites, which shouldn't even be in the game to begin with. I truly do wonder if the devs are purposefully trying to kill the game with such one dimensional design concepts that are so unhealthy for the game.
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utilizing obstacles, splitting up doing gens, understanding how to use the burst of speed you get after getting hit to make it to strong tiles.
He's not really hard to counter, you just have to think. He interrupts efficient pathing, so you have to play inefficiently to counter him in a chase.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1723959#Comment_1723959
So a game is competitive because it had a tournament on it?
I participated in a tournament of Sonic Shuffle for dreamcast to see who was better or faster and the game is not competitive. For a game to be competitive you need to think in the reason of its existence. Dead by daylight main purpose is not "smash your opponents", it's have fun in a scary environment trying to avoid a killer, and having fun as a killer trying to avoid them from escaping.
The game IS NOT competitive, you might want it to be, but that's on you.
DBD pits two sides against each other. One side wins, one side loses. You can claim anything you want about the game, but the game is, by definition, a competitive game.
Name one single game ever created in the history of mankind, including non video games, that pit players against each other that isn't competitive.
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@xenotimebong said:
Fractured Cowshed. Shack into safe pallet into long wall jungle gym into safe pallet into another long wall jungle gym... uuughhhh. If I get one kill on this map I’m happy. The survivors have to really ######### up to lose on it. And if I get this map as survivor I know it’s a win if the killer chases me, and the chases aren’t even fun since you don’t need to entertain mindgames, just chain tiles and you’re almost completely safe.
That actually has something to do with the algorithm the devs designed to generate tiles. Every tile has a certain strength number associated with it, and all maps add up to the same number. The issue with this algorithm is that it does not take into account adjacent tiles, and the metric it uses to determine the strength of a tile is flawed. So you get absolutely broken chains of strong tiles that survivors can easily run killers for 5 gens on.
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The devs don't play the game and they don't listen to the playerbase, so they have no idea what needs fixing, that's why we get random fixes to random maps perks addons instead of the issues that players complain about.
Be sure to check out the new Feng skin on the shop though, it's on sale right now!
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It is so ironic that people will call a killer boring because that killer doesn't allow them to beeline to the nearest tile, loop it, throw the pallet, then rinse and repeat for the next tile.
It's so amazing that people actually argue for more static and mindless play rather than more dynamic and thoughtful play.
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The devs do not legitimately play the game at a high enough skill level to be able to properly design addons or balance the game properly for that matter. They do not take advice from players that do play at a high skill level. So we get addons that are either useless or actually detrimental to killers, with rarity meaning absolutely nothing.
I'll never forget the Billy rework addon that epitomized this. The one that increased your movespeed when someone was shining a flashlight on you. This showed that the devs do not even understand basic flashlight use, that the only time a survivor is going to flashlight you without giving you a free hit is when you are stuck in an animation or stunned. They did end up changing this addon, but the fact that this addon got greenlighted is amazing, as people were pointing out how stupid it was even before the PTB.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1720660#Comment_1720660
Because they were started one for one on hooks once they realized what was happening and one of them who died at the end, died on their first hook and then he started trashing the people who escaped saying they were bad , I'm just saying the dude should own that he facecamped and not insult the survivors who beat him
Asking someone to own up to something implies that they're doing something wrong.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/202709/devs-about-undying
I'm a big fan of undying but it does need a slight change. As Otz suggested, make cleansing Undying remove renewed totems, or remove the aura reading. As it stands, it does too much. It completely overshadows ToTH. Perhaps if they put the aura reading on ToTH as a compromise?
Undying isn't that strong. You have to sacrifice 2 perk slots to make it effective, and even then it's not a guarantee that it will be effective. If survivors go for totems, you have 2 perks for 90% of the game, if survivors just do gens, ruin gets almost no value and all the other hex perks suck too bad to be reliably used.
The aura reading gives minimal value because your attention is going to be focused on finding and chasing survivors, and the aura reading only comes into play rarely if the survivors you are chasing happen to run past one, giving you information on where they're going. It's hard to discern survivor auras among the generator auras, the hex auras, and the hook auras.
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The game is hilariously survivor sided. If the survivors just split up and hump gens, there's absolutely nothing the killer can do. Even if they do not loop and just get hit and press shift W to run in straight lines, you will give them about 1 gen worth of time per hit and down.
You can get to the point where you dumpster on most survivors, since most survivors aren't very good at the game. It takes a long time, I consider myself an average to above average killer with my playtime. Any of the killers are good, because a team of good survivors is utterly unstoppable and the vast majority of survivors are either really really good or really really bad. What matters more than your personal skill is the map RNG and the team cohesion of the survivors, no amount of skill with killer will beat bad rng against a good group of survivors.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711408#Comment_1711408
Was bloodlust actually added because of map design or to give a helping hand to new killers? Given by your assertion and from my own experience, rank 1 killers never seem to need or use bloodlust so this means maps are fine. Now, this brings me to my point previously, new and for the most part average casual survivors don't have much to lean on. They don't have anything to give a little rush of adrenaline during a chase to extend it (the opposite of bloodlust). Most of the so-called god loops have been removed so if you are not an expert looper then you are going down fast and depending on the killer you might be going down regardless.
The tournament example doesn't match up to how a typical match plays, where camping was not allowed, certain perks not allowed, etc. You get my point, tournaments are fun but it shouldn't be balanced around that because nobody will ever live because 99% of the time 4 is not on comms with a mission to genrush and leave.
I think the devs made a change around 2017 that drastically caused this discussion - killers don't seem to rank up in red ranks unless they play an amazing game and get 3-4 kills. Is it even possible to rank up with 2 kills, which IS and SHOULD BE the balance target? This might be why killers are so stressed, feeling the need to 4K when in reality it should be a rarity. Unfortunately, it is a common ending.
At higher levels of play, if you are not kicking a pallet or hitting a survivor within 15 seconds of a chase, you are losing. After you hit them, if they run in a straight line, it takes about 23 seconds to catch up to them, although most don't do this, but let's assume they do. That means you only get about 8 seconds of bloodlusting if you do this every time, 5% movespeed for 8 seconds isn't that much. At 15 seconds to hit, then 23 seconds to down, thats 114 seconds total to down a survivor, enough for 1 gen to be popped, you have to do this 12 times. Good survivors will use the speed boost from getting hit to get to a strong tile, so a lot of the time it's useless to even continue chasing. Bad survivors generally don't do this, so the bloodlust becomes more valuable. The lower the level that survivors play at, the more time they give the killer to down them, this means that bloodlusting can be a valid strategy at lower levels of play, but it is not a valid strategy at higher levels of play, as 5% movespeed is not enough to catch good survivors fast enough after 15 seconds of a chase.
New survivors have very strong safe pallets spread out every map to figure out how to use effectively. This is the beauty of skill based balancing, they get better at the game, they don't need to rely on perks or any crutches, they just need to get better at the game to be more effective.
The tournament lays out why survivors are so strong in the first place, especially if killers abide by the survivor rulebook and don't camp or tunnel. The point system and the rules of the tournament was to make it as fair as possible for both sides, which resulted in most matches ending with 0-1 kills. When everyone is playing fairly, the game is skewed heavily in survivors' favor.
The counter to camping and tunneling is rushing gens. If bad survivors are going against a good killer, that good killer should win. If a bad killer is going up against a team of good survivors, those survivors should win.
The reason why killers have to get 3-4k to rank up is due to the game being survivor sided. If you kill survivors too hard, you will depip, the game actively punishes killers that kill survivors, you are not supposed to kill them to get maximum points and pips, you are supposed to let them go.
There are ways to balance the game that will barely affect low skill play, as low level survivors don't play efficiently. If you lower the relative safety of all tiles in the game, you won't affect low level survivor play much because low level survivors don't loop around tiles efficiently to begin with, and for the killer side it's the same thing, low level killers aren't going to be mind gaming or backstepping to reduce the amount of times a survivor can loop a particular pallet. Low level survivors aren't using DS BT and unbreakable offensively to buy more time in the game, if you keep these perks in the game but remove the ability to offensively use these perks against the killer, you reduce high skill survivor efficiency without hurting low level survivor efficiency because they simply aren't making those plays to begin with.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711134#Comment_1711134
Tournaments are not useful for showing game balance. They all have different win conditions, they will ban maps/offerings/items/perks/add-ons/killers/cosmetics that would normally be used in the game. Hell, they often even ban certain playstyles to make the gameplay more fun, like camping or slugging for the killer, or repairing without healing for the survivor.
Bad matchmaking should also largely come out in the wash for overall numbers like this. For every match with a boosted killer playing against good survivors, you should also have matches with good survivors playing against a boosted killer.
If game balance really skews against the killer at high levels of play why is the kill rate at high rank substantially higher? Is the game just easy for survivors at low rank, hard at high rank, and easy again at the absolutely highest possible levels? That's certainly possible, but it doesn't seem likely. I'm willing to believe it with evidence, like if MMR goes live and all of a sudden the killers with the highest skill ratings are getting stomped, but that's not something I'll believe on anecdotal evidence.
The tournament had rules to keep it as fair as they could, and the rules were primarily for survivors to reduce abuse.
rank doesn't matter in this game. The difference between a rank 20 and a rank 1 is that the rank 1 seeks to achieve the objective, nothing more. Even the devs have proven this, stating that rank is more of a gauge of playtime than it is skill.
I'll keep posting this video as it is by far the best case as to why games should be balanced towards the highest levels of play. It has yet to be refuted.
https://youtu.be/X1p42KtZOCw -
@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711073#Comment_1711073
"The average killer is better than the average survivor"
Assuming this is true, then that is very bad. I actually believe this is true. Killers are able to down survivors too quickly if they are not an expert looper and because of the perks killers can use, it can paralyze the others to not get the objective done. A perk like infectious freight also has a domino effect.
I don't think you should treat DBD like COD or some other tactical game where both sides are equal. It is asymmetrical and I don't think you should balance where the 4 plays totally perfect, because that leaves no room for everyone else. What if 3 survivors are like experts but one is average? As I understand, the four survivors have no knowledge of each other and they are not necessarily supposed to work as a team but they can as needed. If you balance so all four plays perfectly with no mistakes, then that automatically makes killer so powerful that nobody will ever win unless they are in a SWF purposely genrushing and ignoring everything else. Think of the casuals that only play occasionally or a few games a week, I don't think anybody would play a game if they know their individual experience doesn't matter because only the other side matters.
You're failing to understand the issue. Bloodlust is much more valuable at lower skill levels than higher skill levels. Higher skilled killers know that if they are bloodusting against a survivor, they are losing, due to efficiency. Lower skilled killers do not need to concern themselves with efficiency, so bloodlust is much more valuable. The problem with this is that since the game is so poorly designed, bloodlust was needed to combat poor map design.
If 3 survivors are experts and one is not, they may die if the killer is good, but they won't die if the killer is not. The average survivor will die, then the 3 others will likely escape, which is what is expected.
Your argument about team cohesion is fallacious. You are assuming that the killer is also not trying, but this is false. Ideally, the survivors each should account for about 25% of the killer's power. Only by working together does the survivor team have a chance against the killer, as a 4v1 this is fair, do you not agree? Standing alone against the killer, the killer should be 4 times more powerful than an individual survivor.
If 4 good survivors fight 1 good killer, ideally each side should have about a 50% winrate. This means, as the devs have stated, 2 kills. This is not the case, the case is that a team of good survivors will average 0-1 kills against a similarly skilled killer.
This game is not CoD, and comparing it to CoD is just a waste of time. Since it is a PvP game, it is, by definition, a competitive game. There is a hunger for fairness in PvP games, and this game is not a fair game.
Ideally, if you are not a competitive player, you will be placed in ranks with similar players. This is also not the case with DBD, red ranks should ideally be reserved for the strongest players in the game, but this is not the case.
It is a colossal failure by the devs to not properly rank and gauge players' skill. This is the core issue of the game. The devs do not play the game at a competitive level and they do not listen to players that do, so we have what we have today.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1709609#Comment_1709609
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1709529#Comment_1709529
Clearly not, and that sort of response is why the devs have told people not to treat the stats as gospel. There are other factors that can lead to a lower or higher kill rate than usual, and how hard it is to play Nurse almost certainly results in a lower average kill rate than she is capable of.
When you look at the overall percentage, though, it's hard to reconcile that with the idea that the game is survivor sided. A ~68% kill rate at red ranks suggests that the game is not survivor sided. If we treat a 50% kill rate as perfectly balanced, there would have to be one or more major factors artificially inflating kill rates. The only things I can think of are disconnects (if those are included in the stats) and hook suicides, but do we really think that's responsible for more than 18% of all deaths in DBD? I very much doubt it, especially when there are other factors artificially lowering the kill rate. For example, some killers often give the last survivor the hatch. Also, the hatch always opens for the last survivor now regardless, so you could very feasibly only 3k in a match where no gens were completed.
which is why the skill level of the player matters in determining balance issues. Since it is too easy to rank up because the devs have no idea what skill is on this game, you have many people in red ranks that shouldn't be in red ranks.
Well coordinated survivors against similarly high skilled killers shows that survivors way overperform at these skill levels. Refer to the tournament I posted above.
You can alter the game in ways that affect high level play that barely touch on lower level play. The devs are unfortunately not skilled enough at the game to do this because they don't know what constitutes skill in this game.
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@Nazeef13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711073#Comment_1711073
But kill rates are higher at red ranks
We've been through this.
It does not matter if kill rates are 100% or 0%. What matters is the experience. Please give a cogent argument as to why the game should be balanced towards average level play and please elaborate on why you think survivors should be buffed and point to your evidence.
The fact that the stats say pig is one of the strongest killers in the game and nurse is by far the weakest shows a very large discrepancy. The fact that you take anything from those stats glaringly shows your bias.
I will again share this video to you in the hopes that maybe you will watch it and maybe something will click
https://youtu.be/X1p42KtZOCwI will post this video as to my evidence showing how strong survivors are against the strongest players playing the actual strongest killers in the game, being nurse spirit, and to a lesser extent, pyramid head.
https://youtu.be/KGlKlpjc4aMBut then again, the stats posted are scripture, and any argument against the stats, despite CLEAR evidence disproving them is utter heresy.
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@Sluzzy said:
On average, Freddy kills a jaw dropping 3 out of 4 survivors every match at red ranks. I don't think that is survivor sided.
The average survivor, and for that matter killer, player is barely cognizant. The issue you bring up is exactly why this game is so survivor sided, and it shows where the devs have chosen to base their balance decisions.
The average killer is better than the average survivor, because the survivor needs to take advantage of their environment to elude the killer. If the survivor cannot take advantage of the environment, they just die.
The game is then tailored to this playstyle, which means at higher skill levels, survivors are completely broken, and there is actual evidence of this, especially with hexy's tournament where the best players played against each other, and the strongest killer players in the game playing the strongest killers could only hope, on average, one kill that they had to tunnel and sweat very hard for.
I really don't know why people think this method of balancing is in any way healthy for a PvP game, and I don't know why you bring up those stats like they mean anything to the balance of the game. I understand that you're afraid of survivors becoming too weak, but the error in your thought is that the things that need changed at high levels survivors at low levels aren't doing, they aren't minmaxing pathing, they aren't getting every second they can out of a loop and then holding shift W when they get hit, gaining as much distance as possible from the killer, they aren't exploiting god windows to their fullest, they aren't running the strongest perks in the game. Low skill survivors are being chased and run down because they inefficiently navigate loops and windows, even if the efficiency of loops and windows were changed, this would still not affect low skill survivors because they aren't even looping in the first place.
Please stop using anything the devs post as a source for your arguments, as they are very very unhealthy for the game, and the devs do not play this game at a level that is required to fully understand it and balance it and they don't take advice from the players that do.
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because these stats are absolutely meaningless, and the devs have just inadvertently gave the playerbase an insight as to why this game is so poorly balanced.
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@IamDwight said:
You can already counter it by baiting it and being more patient. They did imply that it was gonna be changed to work better with Dedicated Servers, so likely less to be exhausted on the ground.
No. The people that use dead hard in that way are not the people that make dead hard such a broken perk. I love the way this guy explains the BASE jumper in TF2 in this video. A regular joe shmoe isn't going to be using strafing and redeploying the base jumper to fully utilize its effect, joe shmoe is going to rocket jump, use the basejumper, not redeploy it, and die. The professional gamer is going to strafe and redeploy it and make it impossible to get hit.
This is the way dead hard is used, most of the players that use it do not use it to its fullest, only when it is used to its fullest is it oppressive, and that is to give the survivor the needed distance to either vault a window or throw a pallet, which can then be chained to other windows and pallets, resulting in a loss for the killer, rather than a potential win by downing the survivor. Good players do a good job at exploiting game balance issues. What is completely broken at high levels play may be completely insignificant at lower levels of play.
Please watch this video, I'll timestamp it to the part I was talking about, but the whole video does a great job in explaining what game balance should be.
https://youtu.be/X1p42KtZOCw?t=207And here's a recent video by scott, which details why it's such bad game design to balance a game based off of the average playerbase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD2Dk3kPD3s -
this game is not designed to be pleasant at higher ranks.
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it's nice to know that the pyramid head change was entirely unwarranted
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nurse is clearly the weakest killer and she needs SUBSTANTIAL buffs to make her better
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@Yamaoka said:
Why does DS need a nerf again?
because it's thematically a defensive perk and is primarily used and abused offensively to give survivors 60 seconds of free time to do gens or unhook other players or heal. This combined over a team of 4 grants survivors a full 4 minutes of uninterruptible gameplay if paired with unbreakable, enough for 1 survivor to do 3 gens by themselves.
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@Nazeef13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704421#Comment_1704421
1. Nurse is under 50% in all ranks, and over I'm red ranks. So no. She doesn't match the rest of the killers in regard to being over 50% in both, she can use some skill-floor lowering. Regardless, it is okay to have half the killers in the 40-50% range and the other half in the 50-60% range. This should be done through base killer adjustments that apply to everyone, then they can go in and fine tune the killers to lower the variance. As long as the overall is near 50% kill rate which is not the case currently. So even if it pushes nurse further down, there clearly still is a need for a base killer nerf.
2. This isn't an esports competitive game, and with a normal distribution most players tend to be in +/- 1 standard deviation from average. They can always fine tune near the skill ceiling and skill for after fixing the base game, but if they don't have the resources, why would they cater to the small percentage of players at the top instead of the majority of the player base?
3. Most maps are survivor sided? I'm sorry What? There isn't a single survivor sided map.
2018:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N61YOWS9N8H6/uhgr0wx.jpg
2019:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VOE7KXX78115/zyolar28jadq.png
Nerfed even more for survivors in 2020 mid chapter update:
map changes this summer that reduced # pallets, made main building loops unrepeatable, decreased safety of pallet loops, and spread out tiles to prevent chaining. All map nerfs, and will continue to apply it in the future to the maps they missed in the refresh.
I don't think you're knowledgeable to be discussing with me. You're flat out wrong here
No, you don't seem to understand game design or game balance, but I know now that you're a lost cause. Just know that there's a reason no one agrees with you, and it's not because you're right.
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@Nazeef13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704374#Comment_1704374
Quite the logical fallacy there.
Due to the nature of pick rates, deciding to nerf one particular killer based on this stats would be a sample size (not everyone plays pig after all, maybe only top killers do).
I'm basing this on the average overall kill rate, which includes every single killer. A base nerf, similar to how survivors get base nerfed through map design or perks or healing speed.
There is so much wrong with your reasoning I really don't know where to start. Do you believe that nurse is the one single weakest killer in this game by a very large margin?
Why should any PvP game ever base balance decisions on the average playerbase?
Also where do survivors get nerfed in maps? Most maps are survivor sided. I would like for you to show me how many maps are killer sided and why you think that. I would also know why you think that survivor perks are weak, considering survivors have the strongest perks in the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw -
@Nazeef13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704262#Comment_1704262
I see you went with typical response #2.
Overall, across all ranks, and within red ranks exclusively, killers are performing too well. Not just at the low ranks with noobs, but also at the skill ceiling red ranks where these "meta com using swf squads" are. Regardless of the GREAT variation, on AVERAGE, killers are too strong.
Whatever anecdotal evidence you are asking for gets averaged out over both sides. "Where survivors using meta perks/add-ons?" Probably as much as killers were using meta perks and add-ons.
Considering these stats are from every single player that played during the data collection phase. it is the literal entire study population, there is no need to control. It's not a sample size, with a few participants, whose findings are being assumed onto the entire playerbase. It's literally all-inclusive, no assumptions, nothing for control for.
"Ooo, but moris." Keys
"But match making" affects both sides.
"But people die on first hook or afk." Killer afk's or teams to let people go.
"But survivor giving killer a pity kill." Killer giving survivor hatch.
"But DC's" excluded, but even if they weren't a killer dcing would've counted as 4 escapes.
"But boosted survivors" boosted killers
"Survivors are bad, no wonder they die so much at red rank" then why are you complaining that red rank survivors are unbeatable. Also killers are bad too.
You're right, Myers pig and bubba need to be heavily nerfed because they are overperforming, and freddy is the strongest killer in the game.
You don't seem to understand how useless these stats are. Killers running the best perks with the best addons on the best maps vs survivors running the best perks with the best addons on the best maps is the ONLY metric that actually matters in terms of balance. These stats are completely irrelevant, and god help you if you are faced with any situation in your life where you will need to actually rely on statistics for anything.
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@Nazeef13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1703991#Comment_1703991
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RNOMOBJIP0W7/screenshot-20201024-101231.jpg
From a discussion on reddit over 2018 stats release.
Still holds true today.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LTP1I7Z3UOOC/screenshot-20201024-102252.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2AZTXTWTV8DV/screenshot-20201024-102713.jpg
Hmmmmmm
From last night's stats release discussion:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B27H9PR74HUW/screenshot-20201024-103110.jpg
Why would they exclude mori's. Do they exclude key escapes?
Oh, but killers have a close to 3k kill rate in red ranks. Must be flawed /s
The stats are absolutely meaningless because they are not detailed enough. If behavior takes these stats as shown and makes decisions based off of them, this is the sole reason why this game is so poorly balanced.
Killers can run a myriad of different offerings and addons that GREATLY affect their ability to kill. Survivors can run a myriad of different offerings that GREATLY affect their ability to survive and die. There's also perks to consider.
Of the 3 out of 4 average survivors killed, how many are running ds unbreakable iron will and borrowed time? Actually I would be curious as to how many survivors that survive that are running that combo. Are they bringing med kits? flashlights? offerings to survivor sided maps? keys? are they suiciding?
Of the killers that are killing an average of 3 survivors, what are they running? Are they running the best addons for the specific killer? Are they running the best perks? Moris? are they running more killer favored maps? is it a fully kitted out killer vs survivors not running meta perks or addons, or vice versa?
What exact rank are these kills and survives happening? is it a rank 4 killer who just got into red ranks vs rank 1 survivors who have been there all season, is it a rank 1 killer who's been there all season vs a team of rank 3-4 survivors who just got to those ranks?
This game is not designed to be balanced, just from all the variables that go into play. You cannot possibly draw any reasonable conclusion from any of these broad stats unless many variables are controlled for. The fact that behavior releases such worthless information and the predictable response that ensues leads me to really question what their motives are.