ZVom
ZVom
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@SweetTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3099243#Comment_3099243
Exactly. There's no reason good enough to remove the blood point bonuses from BBQ and WGLF, and with the incentives turned off the grind is ridiculously high right now.
the truth is - Removal of bp bonuses from perks is a must, period. It was very unhealthy as it forced us to run specific perks in order to make grind less painful.
Unfortunately, what behaviour did was to remove a bad habit (forcing player to play bonus bp perks) without solving the real issue and main cause of WHY ppl ran these perks in the first place (ridiculous grind without bp bonuses) and effectively it made the grind unbearable right now especially for new players.
Imagine starting the game right now without having anything unlocked and realising how much do you have to grind in order to get just three perks tier 3 (since the most reasonable thing to do right now is to pick a single character and p3 it without touching other characters as P1ing character X makes his perks appear on the bloddweb of character Y so leveling character X and character Y simultanously makes it unreasonable since you can have all perks t3 of X on Y if you P3 char X) - as soon as he prestiges one character he realizes "OMG I literally spent ~1,7KK of BP in order to prestige one character, now I have to pay 20k and do all these things 2 more times to make the most of perk transferring system. *Quick Mafs* ~30k per game, a game takes roughly 20minutes, alright:
(1,7kk + 20k)x3/30k=172 games in order to get P3 on a character
172x20/60=57 HOURS of gameplay to get ONE character to P3.
OK so I have to play around 57 hours on ONE character in order to make the perk transfer system reasonable until I can switch to other character. You know what? I don't care - Gonna play civilzation or something. See ya lads"
That's how the new grind feels for a baginner.
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@MaudetteClorel said:
Not everyone is playing for BP. Sorry to disappoint you, but your suggestion is BS.
Even if the camped survivor is being nice to his team and doesn't immediately give up or suicide on hook, the remaining 3 survivors won't have time to finish the gens before the first one dies. That paired with other slowdowns (dead-lock, pain res, thana etc.) and the camping killer will almost always secure a 3k.
they will have more than enough time to finish three gens if the hooked one is camped. LOL
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3099502#Comment_3099502
I use cakes almost always so I get double bp so I don't facecamp but I usually go back to hook if I don't find anyone. Debends on situation if I have bit bad game before then I usually tunnel one out. BBQ bonus removal was terrible change it encourages tunneling and camping. I agree grind is too big.
cakes/flans/bloody party etc. - it's completely different thing.
If the bonus was there you still would get much much more bp.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3098806#Comment_3098806
It’s worse for me too. I already have most of the perks I want on the characters that I play, so I’m grinding for survivor items and killer add-ons. BP bonuses for BBQ and WGLF are gone now, so the grind has been made 2x worse for me. The whole “75% grind reduction” thing was for the very specific situation in which you want to play every character and prestige every character. BHVR didn’t bother to mention that for a lot of players the grind reduction was far less, and actually even worse for certain players like myself.
Removal of BBQ and WGLF is the thing that made the grind worse - If it simply remained or made base kit then we would have single handedly the best patch in the history of DBD. Now we have the patch that made survivors crying and ppl who like to unlock new things crying too because grind is ridiculous.
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@Deathstroke said:
Camping gets you 10-20K bp and chasing gives 30-40K so is it worth to camp based on bp? No but is it most viable stragedy to win? Yes.
since BBQ bonus is gone - I stopped caring about BP as I have to play more games than I could count to get p0->p3 on a characted. No, no - thanks. I'll stick to camping until grind is reduced.
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@Tiufal said:
Let's be honest. The midchapter is a desaster on several levels. When do we get some statements on the miserable situation? Will they try to sit it out? Do they think data will change miraculously if they waitlong enough? Feedback from ptb was ignored, they purposely forced their "balancing" unto the community. How long do we have to suffer from this disastrous midchapter? How many players are they willing to sacrifice for their unreasonable changes? They really need to put up some extraordinary statement to justify this mess.
I feel like the patch is really good. Besides changes to BBQ and WGLF - these are terrible and makes me want to quit. Bring back the bonuses in a different or the same form and this will make midchapter patch the best patch in DBD history.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/336371/survivors-need-to-get-a-grip
Reward not to camp? They buffed killers hard in this patch and they nerfed the most OP perk in this game dead hard. What else do you want? 1 million bps per every game you don’t camp and tunnel?
1 million is a bit too much but 20-30k would do, yeah I think I'd go for it honestly. Just bring back old BBQ bonus with aura reading and we're good to go.
I'm being 100% - no sarcasm or #########. Just bring back BP bonuses for certain things. For now I'll stick to camping and tunneling as it seems fair enough against bullying/t-bagging/flashlight squads.
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If BP bonuses from BBQ and WGLF remained, we would have had a fair grind reduction.
Currently we've got a boogaloo that looks like it is a reduction but in fact it benefits veterans and screws new players.
It's just very unhealthy
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I honestly feel like it was the worst and best patch in the history.
It's the best because balance was finally brought to DBD - no more unpunishable t-bagging, bullying etc. by the survs
It's the worst because the grind was increased to the point I cannot even estimate how many hundreds of games will it take to get 1 char to P3 to get his perks.
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Honestly this one is pretty easy challenge - it did not really bother me, but at the same time I understand that someone with this particular health issue might have a problem - the solution is... not to take this particular challenge if this bother you. Seriously I don't think that entire community should be affected by someone else's problem especially if it does not prevent you from enjoying the game overall.
I myself have a type 1 diabetes and never experienced any kind of feature for handicapped players and I think it's fair. My condition is my problem, period.
If devs start to consider migraine, diabetes, chronic pains and other disabilities they will have problems with adding any features to the game just because someone might feel unwell. If you can't play the game due to health issues, just find something suitable for you. That's how it works!
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@evancalgary said:
I'm just going name every issue i can think of off the top of my head that was added with this update or not fixed
Camping/Tunneling 5sec BT not enough
10+ min killer que for mid to high MMR
DS,DH, iron will and selfcare are worthless now
bloodwebs nerfed you can never get rare add ons now if you need/want them
Solo que survivor is unplayable
Disconnects run rampant
Cheating/Hackers everywhere
Killer was overbuffed thanatophobia did not need a buff
Bad map layouts
No nerfs for nurse, blight, and spirit
if you can think of anymore let me know and i will add them
Grind was supposed to be reduced - it wasn't. It is way worse now. Especially for new players.
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SWF is still dominating killers.
The game cannot be balanced around Solo queues since it would put SWF in too big of an advantage.
The game is very balanced now, swf no longer freely bully killers witohut consequences - they still cna do it but not so mindlessly (no stupid DH).
Game is good in terms of balance now. Finally killers are in decent position.
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I have no Idea why 50k is a problem for you guys.
20k is still too much?
I Don't understand why such amount really bothers you while they removed BP bonus (which is 20k-32k PER GAME not per 50 BLOODWEBS).
I am literally amazed.
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3076316#Comment_3076316
So many ASSumptions...
You assume that survivor mains want to play many characters. A lot of people just have 1 main character and used to just get the new ones to 40 and then unlock the perks on the main. Not possible any more.
You assume that people can get 40k in a match enough times for it to matter. Not possible for many people in current solo queue.
You assume that people are interested to play the other side. If survivor main always plays after work in the evening, he is never getting that bonus. Not in my region at least.
If we remove all of those assumptions, there is nothing left...
Your Assumptions are morally and technically bankrupt. You swallow devs' propaganda even tho it left the grind in the worse place than it was.
without assuming anything - ALL of my games, excluding those where ppl disconnect previously ended up with 23-32k BP. Literally never lower. Obviously always it was doubled due to bbq (still excluding disconnects)
Now I end up with 23-35k. I did not manage to go above 36k a single time, even if the game took 20+ minutes.
The change with 10k per category is completely irrelevant. Incentives do not work. When they start working again, you will be forced to play role you do not want to play in order to progress at non-nightmarish pace. Is it really better than forcing you to play with a particular perk? Sorry but no.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074838#Comment_3074838
New players aren’t “screwed completely”, they have the same cost reduction once they have multiple characters at Prestige 1. And the grind getting to that point isn’t nearly as bad as the grind later on in the old system.
New players eventually become veteran players and get the benefits.
You are totally wrong - If you had a character prestiged ONCE in old system you have that character prestiged 3 times in the NEW one. On top of that in old system you had BBQ and WGLF.
So now get screwed by no bbq and wglf bonus and prestige every character 3 times.
Please use your brain sometimes. Sometimes - not always. Sometimes would be enogh
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075165#Comment_3075165
Some killers were saying that they run BBQ only for the bloodpoint bonus
But again, it was their choice to run it so I didn't really see an issue with that, they'd have probably been fine with the grind reduction
The grind was not reduced OMG.
It was devs propaganda that got mathemtically debunked multiple times.
The only good thing it brought was QOL change for veterans. That's ALL
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074838#Comment_3074838
Totally agree
The bloodpoints incentive would have been a good move IF the bonuses from WGLF and BBQ were baked into the basekit
That +1
Bonus BP in basekit + incentives and we have good, healthy progression system PERIOD.
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074752#Comment_3074752
Still, there might be times in which there is no bonus incentive
And even if it's always there, now you're forced to play a role you DIDN'T want to play, or miss out on the bonus bloodpoints
Because being forced to use a perk only for the bloodpoints is wrong, but being forced to play a role for the same reason is totally fine ;)
THEY NEED TO FINALLY REALISE - People ran BP perks because it was F***ING NECESSARY considering how bad the grind is. THEY DIDNT REDUCE IT!! they reduced it for VETERANS ONLY. New players are screwed COMPLETELY
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Changes they made are fantastic to veterans that have most of stuff already unlocked and they don't care.
What they did is absolutely ruin the experience for new players. Imagine getting 30k BP per game and prestiging 3x let's say... 4 characters and estimate that 1x prestige takes around 1.7kk bp
12x1,7kk+12x20k= 20,64kk
Good luck farming for almost SEVEN HUNDRED GAMES.
They went absolutely nuts. I literally just realised how stupid this is.
Without REAL grind reduction new players are not going to come.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3073811#Comment_3073811
That's nuts. The highest score event for anything is 5k and that's escaping. 10k is the maximum of a category, so you wouldn't even feel that 10k as it would be consumed by the category cap anyway.
This suggestion would award you an additional 2k for doing these tasks, allowing you to max out the Survival/Sacrifice category, and would be multiplied by any other bonuses.
The point isn't the amount, it's the incentive. These bonuses would be the only way of maxing out those two categories, so anyone looking to make a good score would know they would have to spread out hooks and rescue their team mates.
it makes the game farming focused which it was before and it was bad ( well it still is going to be farming simulator since grind is nowhere near "good" state, it's rather abysmal)
those suggested bonuses should be applied post-trial, just like BBQ and WGLF
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@Seraphor said:
Yes we need these bonuses in the game somehow, even at a reduced capacity.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/334080/new-bp-caps-and-replacement-for-bbq-wglf
we need much bigger bonuses rather than 500 bp. I would say at least 10x of that. 10k BP for first unhook, 5k bp per first hook, 1k for hitting a survivor at least 40m away from the last hook etc.
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Agree.
btw, bring back bbq wglf bp bonus.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3073672#Comment_3073672
It requires 100% more skill that getting bloodlust
it was necessary in order to stop 5 mintues per healthstate loops >.<
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We tried to signal these problems but nobody actually gave a fck. Now killers will camp even more without ANNY incentive to go for another survivor. Good job!
I posted it in the meantime of facecamping as bubba. The surv is still on the hook.
Removal of BP feels fine :>
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I disagree completely - game pre-patch was completely survivor sided. You could loop and bully the ######### out of killers if you were good. It didn't matter whether killer was good or not because the rules were on your side. Now killers have more room to act but the game is STILL survivor sided whether you want it or not but it's much, much harder and finally killers feel like some sort of danger instead of pińatas beaten by 4 survs.
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It is not a problem IMO.
BBQ and WGLF is.
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@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3051509#Comment_3051509
The difference being those Perks are made instantly available. You don't have to "find" them in the Blood Web or hope your favorite ones show up first on a new character.
They are already there. Grind over. Just play the game with the build you want and get T2 and T3 as they come when you level your character normally.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3051464#Comment_3051464
New players have not been screwed.
New player buys DBD, reads about the game, discovers which Perks from which characters they want.
So they go about leveling those characters to P1 to unlock the Perks they want.
The mostly likely scenario is that after they've done that is when they will settle on the character they want to play as the most.
Now this character already knows all of the Perks. They don't have to find them in the Bloodweb. They don't have to worry about not getting their preferred Perks first. They know them. They can start just playing the game and using whatever build they want because Tier 1 Perks still work just fine and in most cases the differences between Tiers is marginal.
It doesn't matter if they just want to play one person, it doesn't matter if they don't already own the game and pick it up new after this update.
It's a reduced grind.
Grind isn't reduced and OP mathematically has proven that.
grind WOULD be reduced IF the devs implemented changes they've been talking about WITHOUT touching BBQ.
Running the game in the current and future state without BBQ/WGLF makes the grind unbearable for anyone who wants to run couple builds on couple characters within reasonable amount of time.
In the current state we have an ability to reduce the grind by wasting one perk slot, after the patch we will not have such a possibility. The problem is the devs noticed a real issue being binding bonus BP to perks and how bad the grind is. Unfortunately the devs did not realize that it is THE GRIND what forces us to run these perks. So they generously released us from the constraint of running bonus BP perks by removing them, without actually reducing the grind... Thanks devs. You're trully magnificent
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It's sad how OP exposed and debunked all myths spreaded by the devs and literally the community forgot about it after not even a week.
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Completely agree with OP. No need to show off anything. Scratch marks on portraits are cool enough imo.
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Believe me - older players are just as screwed as the new ones.
New prestige system is not better by any means for newcomers.
So no - you have no reason to rant more than newbies.
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@BringShaggytoDBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058549#Comment_3058549
For now, yes. But they can, and often do change their minds.
Don't get me wrong my brother - I'm all for that stupid grind to be gone. It's toxic especially to new players and without them the game is gonna slowly die. Right now, the first thing they realize after playing for some time is the amount of time they need to get the perks they want. The second thing is to get out of this freaking mess and play something else, like civilization or sth.
Tier removal would be much appreciated but there are many ways they can limit the grind. BHVR simply does not want the grind to be reduced. They want us to THINK they reduce it without them actually doing that.
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@BringShaggytoDBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058532#Comment_3058532
Well articulated. Seems removing perk tiers would have been the cherry on top.
They've already mentioned tier removal is not an option.
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Simple solutions are always the best.
If they wanted to reduce the grind by 75% they could simply reduce the prices of nodes in bloodweb by 75% and not touch ANYTHING else. It would effectively reduce the grind by... Let me do the maths...
... 75%! Amazing!
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No worries bruh, after new patch crossprogression is not needed because of the grind reduction.
It was advertised as -75% grind, but effectively it will increase it by roughly +32% if you ran BBQ/WGLF previously, but the best part is - these numbers DO NOT include prestige fee of 20k!
So tbh - don't come back :)
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Removal of BBQ (which effectively encouraged and rewarded killers for not camping) will increase camping even more.
We all should expect that camping (I think tunneling will remain unchanged) will be increased after the patch.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050738#Comment_3050738
And the truly insane thing is, removing that aspect of BBQ also removes the anti-camping/tunnelling nature of original BBQ - now there's no incentive to hook each survivor at least once as a priority so camp/tunnel away!
Exactly. This perk aura reading part gave you an objective immediately after hooking so you don't have to camp. OFC everyone used it for BP - anti-camping incentive was very effective side effect.
So camping-whiners, expect more and more of your favourite activity in the game! Thanks should go to devs.
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@Mandy said:
With the new reduction in grind when it comes to gaining new perks, the Bloodpoint economy had to be tweaked with regards to where and when they should be spent. While players now need to spend Bloodpoints to prestige, ultimately the grind is still heavily reduced and results in an overall improvement to the entire system.
Well, these lies about "HEAVY REDUCTION OF THE GRIND" were precisely and mathematically debunked in this thread: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/331937/we-reduced-the-grind-except-we-kinda-didnt-part-2-bloodpoint-boogaloo/p1
So BHVR - please at least don't bullshit us. If you wanted to reduce the grind - JUST DO IT. Reduce the cost of nodes, increase bonuses after the game, increase gained BP - you have so many so simple ways to transaprently reduce the grind.
Instead, you chose to do some freaking shenanigans nobody asked for and you sneakily removed wglf and bbq bonuses, which after all other changes effectively INCREASED the grind. I'm done. It's disgusting and infuriating to be lied to all the time.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052296#Comment_3052296
They are both horrendous decisions. Realistically we'll never get them to admit the mistake they made with Bbq or Wglf. We might have a chance of undoing this one at least.
I highly doubt that.
It's very unrealistic scenario of bhvr to undo any of their flawless changes. It needs to literally set the entire community on fire AFTER the implementation for them to just rethink the idea.
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New players are gonna get disguested when they realise how much they have to grind. Now at least they are somehow appeased the moment they notice BBQ/WGLF exist. After changes it's gonna get really annoying
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@Norhc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052296#Comment_3052296
Nah, BBQ/WGLF BP removal is fine. Well, it would be fine if it was accompanied by an intelligent bloodweb rework. Which is not the case.
That's the point - we didn't get anything in return of BBQ removal. Effectively grind will be increased by the bonus amount
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I literally am amazed and shocked WHY people bring stupid 5Ok tax as a problem. It is NOTHING compared to BBQ and WGLF removal. NOTHING!
Removal or BBQ and WGLF bonus is going to make everything much much worse than any 5Ok tax. Of course, combining 5Ok and BBQ/WGLF removal brings entire grind into whole another level, but BBQ/WGLF is the main problem, not 50k tax.
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@Obelt said:
Im waiting till this gets shut down cause spreadsheet man exposed the lies
That would mean admitting to doing something wrong. You think BHVR would do that without having an intention of damage control? Nah :)
I wish the grind reduction was real.
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I think everything that could be done - was already done. All we can do is to sit and wait for merciful devs' answer.
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I have to agree. These offerings are legitimately trash. Either remove them or change the bonus to one that is meaningful
- brown -> 100% bonus
- Yellow -> 200% bonus
- green -> 300% bonus.
Still not great but those bonuses would at least be considerable
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@c0gnu5 said:
Because they wanted to address the fact that grind is growing exponentially with each dlc, and removing perk tiers is not solving this problem.
You're even there trying to wrongfully convice others to your misleading statements. Ofc it would solve the grind problem. Partially at least.
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What do you mean by not being able to report them?
I can report everyone I want.
If you have any issues with playing with different platform just disable crossplay :)
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Why do you even argue with @c0gnu5?
Take a look at his statements and analyse them. It is so blatant that this guy is trolling and tryna get ppl hooked into pointless discussion.
Don't feed him. Seriously.
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I am so crazily disappointed. I'm disappointed and tired of stupidity of the devs during balancing. My god you have no idea how your own game works. You have no idea of UX or QoL. I legitimately have no clue how could anyone aware of DBD's economy stand up during the daily (I guess you're utilizing scrum during development) and say "Let's cut the grind and remove BP bonus). That simply blows my mind.
Should I expect to hear "We've done pretty good job so far" after the patch goes live? I'm literally about to lose my mind.
I do apologize for that rant-post. I just can't help myself when I see this game being gutted and made newbie-hostile.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
Alright oh dam this is the new mega thread here. I’ll put my condolences here.
While this is a good change for the game and it will help reduce the annoying grind of getting every perk. It doesn’t help new players cause they still need to get the characters and the perks. My problem with the change is how your forced to prestige and you have to spend 50,000 bp. Why reduce the grind then add a stupid price?
if I were to fix the grind the way there doing it I would
- Remove that stupid 50,000 bp prestige. Funny enough when they showed the WIP on Twitter for this change there was no price to prestige then when it came out there is. Just remove the 50,000 price.
- make it so I can still level up once I get to level 50. I hate how your forced to prestige but then you can’t get your high rarity items like UR addons. Just remove the cap so I can level up as much as I want then I can prestige when I want.
That’s honestly all I would do I have to play the incentives first to really see how much it gives you but that’s what I would do
The Fee can stay. It's role in the entire problem is minor to none. Removal of bonus BP is. Even if you earn ~20k each match and get 3/4 stacks it's still whopping 15k BP/match LOST.
The fee can stay, bring back bonus BP
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3043718#Comment_3043718
I don't understand how the change is making the game worse when even the spread sheets provided show it reduces the grind quite a bit. And the spread sheets don't even take into account the priority que bonus. So yeah, you are just whining to whine, and devs are over it. Congrats, you played yourselves.
Try to understand what you read. Please.
The grind reduction is around 18% according to spreadsheets. These DO NOT take into consideration BP bonus perk (+50%), so effective grind reduction is -32% aka grind is INCREASED by 32% and on top of that, 50k prestige fee is also NOT INCLUDED!!! so yeah, it's not whining just to whine. Imagine that it's not something I enjoy in particular to do.