ZVom
ZVom
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- ZVom
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Situation the game is in basically looks as the following one:
You think whether you should go to work by car or by foot. You decide you want to drive by car because you'd have to walk 10km otherwise. Then you go to your garage and notice your car got stolen. You happily accept your fate and are thankful to the thief for caring for your health. You will improve your heart condition after all!
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@Biscuits said:
Developers don't respond to posts that often because it only makes things worse. No matter what they say, you will be upset. So why even try?
That is not true. The devs have been proven to be wrong with their idea. Community gave them everything they needed in order to effectively limit the grind,
If they choose one of ideas provided in this topic, then their behaviour would mean that they actually think about the game's issues, so it's not like whatever they say, we would whine - no. We whine because they want to make their product worse, and we as the customers know what can be done - We simply want to make use of something we've paid for.
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@c0gnu5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3043570#Comment_3043570
I play mostly killer and I don't really care for addons, less will be still enough for me and I will save a lot of BP's thanks to this patch
Don't feed this troll.
He either trolls or have no idea what is he talking about. @c0gnu5, evn if you truly benefit from the changes, good for you. You're among ~1% of playerbase who will actually benefit from this. Good luck watching rest of the playerbase struggling with even worse grind than there was before and in effect probably leave the game or play more occasionally.
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@Cryptikk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3043373#Comment_3043373
those last three would make a world of difference, I don't get why they are making this ass backwards approach instead.
Because they want us to taste THEIR changes. They are the kings of this game and they want to be praised for that. Accept it or get lost.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3043374#Comment_3043374
You can't expect from them only good changes, that wouldn't be BHVR style...
That is true
Most of the changes are pretty bad, but nothing gamebreaking, besides BP bonus removal from BBQ and WGLF.
I don't care to be honest about DS, DH, OTR, BT being basekit now.
The grind baby, the grind that gets raised to the whole new level after the patch. It's gonna kill the game, Mark my words.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3043300#Comment_3043300
They don't need to respond.
If you cannot do basic math, they cannot help you.
What exactly do you mean by that?
@itsPina said:
To anyone wondering why they devs haven't responded to the new spreadsheet... It's the weekend. Keep in mind I doubt they respond when the week begins but they def ain't responding today.
Yeah, I know it's weekend, so their immediate answers shouldn't be expected.
I'm pretty sure they are going to respond later this week with simple "huh, bruh, you're wrong. Grind will be gut now. -75% you know?"
All of this nonsense would be forgotten and nobody would be mad but they need to take actions NOW and scrap the idea of BP bonus removal entirely. They either:
- Leave it as is it (which is not the best; having perk slot occupied just because of the BP bonus being necessary is bad game desing)
- Remove perk tiers (which is also really bad due to add-ons still being necessary to unlock, and in this situation grind will still be noticeable)
- Make BP bonus a part of the base kit
- cut bloodweb nodes prices IN HALF
- Multiply every action reward by x2 and increase cap from 8 000 to 16 000
Last three options would reduce the grind most effectively and I think it would make this discussion completed.
I don't know why am I even trying to suggest anything. The devs are extremely stubborn and they have proven it multiple times already.
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@Witas said:
Seriously, what the heck ? Whether the new grind reduction is actually good enough and accomplishes what we wanted it to do well is a separate topic (All they had to do was remove perk tiers lol), but with it being mostly better, and the new matchmaking incentives, the overall bp gain and grind definitely won't be worse even without the bonuses from these perks. Regardless, did people actually like using those ? How ?! You had to run these perks or you were actively robbing yourself of bp, it was annoying if you couldn't get the perk since you felt cheated out of bp due to pure luck and annoying even if you got it since you actually had 3 perk slots instead of 4 and the game was actively punishing you for every match you chose to opt for a different perk by reducing your rewards by half. It was unhealthy as it made the whole grind revolve around it and substantially reduced build variety. Them addressing the core systems and finally removing this reliance on a single perk (per role) for efficient play is just straight up a good thing and it boggles my mind how people miss it. I remember letting out an audible sigh of relief when reading those perk changes and thinking to myself "FINALLY ! After 5 years my builds won't be handicapped. The game will be way better off thanks to it".
So yeah, I don't understand why so many people are going to miss it.
You actually answered your question while asking it.
People don't like removal of BP bonus from BBQ and WGLF because grind is ridiculous, they made it even worse WITHOUT TAKING BP BONUS FROM PERKS INTO CONSIDERATION, and on top of that they actually removed the bonus.
You're only partially right about tiers removal. There are still add-ons that will be tremendously harder to farm without BP bonus.
What would solve pretty much everything is either cutting prices in the bloodweb in half OR adding bonus BP from BBQ an WGLF to base kit.
Simple as that.
If they actually remove BBQ and WGLF - I'm gone. Also watch people walk away just like I might. I'm tired and sick of the BS that grind is.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3042907#Comment_3042907
That incentive itself seems like a great idea but how does that help mains who only play one side or those who boot up with a side in mind to play depending on how they are feeling.
That was on my mind aswell.
Their reasoning behind removing BP bonus from WGLF and BBQ was because people felt forced to use them to help the grind a bit.
But now instead of being forced to use a certain perk you'll have to potentially play a role you don't even want to.
Very weird design choice to be honest.
Completely dumb design to be honest.
This is actually very right - everyone felt like picking WGLF or BBQ is a must if you wanted to progress - People who didnt pick BBQ were:
- those who wanted to test particular build that ddin't consist of BBQ (so they were single time non-BBQ users)
- those who didnt care about progression
- those unaware of BBQ's existance (mainly newbies; once someone realizes BBQ is there then he will consider it a must)
- those who had everything unlocked
I agree that certain perk being necessary to pick due to game design is a really bad idea, but removing the part of the perk people considered and calling it "a brilliant idea" and then spreading misleading propaganda is seriously not good.
Why not add the perk's "necessary" part to the base kit then just like you did with BT?
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The calculations were done and raw numbers were given in clear, logic and transparent spreadsheet.
Why nobody from BHVR takes part in the discussion?
Again, the community proven you lied (whether intentionally or not) so maybe it's time to apologize and correct the error?
Actually, screw apologies noone cares for, we care only for the game. We want this game to be playable and ENJOYABLE by both newbies and veterans.
You have so many possibilities to massively cut the grind and you literally destroys the most likeable perks in the game. People take them because playing without BP bonus in the current situation makes NO SENSE for anybody who does not have every perk on every character.
PLEASE listen to the people who actually play the game.
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Guys, the 50k tax is absolutely nothing. Considering prestiging all killers triple times it makes 28x3x50k=4,2kk - it's really not that much, if you consider whopping numbers of BP spent on 150 lvls on every killer.
The problem with the entire idea is mentioned 75% - it's propaganda BS number given to the community to make us think how generous they are. It gets quickly debunked and even after OP put so much effort to create spreadsheet to clearly prove them wrong, they said at the end "OP is wrong". End of story.
I never said @Peanits is morally bankrupt - spreading the idea of "Grind Reduction" and people who designed it are.
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@Cryptikk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3038792#Comment_3038792
which peanits never rebutted after too 🤨
Because he knows BHVR's entire "grind reduction" idea is mathematically, objectively, morally and technically bankrupt and as always they will not admit to this. OP proven this multiple times and debunked every argument Peanits used.
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@Slowpeach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3039269#Comment_3039269
Not really. Understanding math and anything more than a paragraph is too hard for some people. It’s basically the equivalent of “Shut up nerd!”. So insert a ‘witty’ meme picture and all is right with the world.
This ultimately stems from the insecurity of their own intelligence. Sad thing is this usually gains traction most of the time because “Well if this guy said it, it must be true and I don’t need to feel stupid because I can’t formulate my own opinions”.
In the end they deceive themselves into believing one lie after another and end up making the world worse for everyone ultimately because they don’t think for themselves and worse don’t try to improve themselves or understand other perspectives. Because that’s not cool ‘yo’.
This digression has been truly pointless.
Whose lies are you talking about?
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@Tishus said:
The thing is they want to put an insentive for the matchmaking issue witch is only for cross on witch nobody like to play with pc hackers. Pretty bad idead.
How does it fit the discussed topic?
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@anarchy753 said:
It's utterly amazing how much straightforward, logical, maths a person can put effort into presenting, then the PR guy's response is just "that's wrong" and people just respond with "WoW oP gOt OwNeD"
this guy is actually right. BHVR tries to settle things using some Public Relations BS. In this scenario I hope people won't be so stupid to believe in those lies.
Another thing is - as someone already pointed out - you literally gave survivors BT functionality to their base kit. Fine. I really have no problem with that and find balance changes necessary and even good.
On the other hand removing bloodpoints gain in perks while at the same time talking BS about grind reduction - it's simply absurd. It's as if priest would open an abortion clinics.
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The most brutal, annoying and disgraceful thing about BHVR is they will never admit to making mistakes. They will go for the idea they had designed, even if the entire community would tell them it's bad.
Admitting to mistake is never a loss. It's victory over ignorance.
@Peanits - Everything would be perfectly fine if you hadn't touched BBQ/WGLF. Just Don't. Seriously. I beg you.
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@Omputin said:
This 100%. Now many more people will realise how much worse this new progression system is gonna be.
The problem is - Both systems sucks pretty badly. Old ones sucks significantly, new one sucks Tremendously. If they just DID NOT FREAKING TOUCHED BBQ AND WGLF everything would be fine. If they REALLY want to remove Bloodpoints bonus from perks - ok it's stupid but let them do it THEIR way. In this scenario simply cut prices in the bloodweb by half. No? you don't want to? Ok then - maybe add WGLF and BBQ bonus blodpoint as a base feature of every killer? hmm? does it sound right? Still No no? OK - final thought then. Make rewards in all four categories basically doubled by default, i.e. hitting a survivor = 600, hooking for the first time = 1000, catching a survivor = 1200 and also obviously make the cap for each of these categories 16 000 instead of 8 000. Sounds like a good plan to EFFECTIVELY reduce the stupid grind right?
Hey! And there's also a protip if you didn't know - if the implemented solution is not working as expected (the solution suggested by BHVR is supposed to fail obviously) you can REVERT it... Just... Letting you know... so you can maybe check out playerbase suggested solutions...
I really don't know why are you BSing us about this grind reduction. Noone is going to end up being happier if you gut BBQ and WGLF. Simple solutions seems to give the best results in this scenarios.
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First of all - Grind is NOT going to be reduced overall, this has been calculated by one of the forums Chads. This is utterly BS.
I seriously wouldn't ask to have bp cap increased/removed in this scenario xD.
We are about to experience grind on whole another level since the next patch.
Fasten your seatbelts kiddos!
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Removal of BBQ. That's all. Besides that "Killer is fine and fun to play".
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Every change except BBQ and WGLF is amazing. Idea of gutting BBQ and WGLF should be scrapped entirely
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I agree completely with OP. Removing BBQ and WGLF from the game is like cutting a maple leaf from Canadian flag. These perks are so iconic (especially BBQ) that removing them just hurts...
On top of that using BBQ is simply and objectively - fun. It shows survivors that are really far away from used hook so you are discouraged from camping. Fun for everyone! At the same time, cutting off BP bonus would make this perk not worth to use at all.
These perks should remain untouched.
Grind is obviously a massive problem, especially for newcomers. If i had purchased this game now, found out how cool BBQ/WGLF is and then realizing they are about to gut these perks - I'd immediately go for a refund. Let the playerbase expand by effectively reducing the grind. Cutting prices in the bloodweb would've been enough. You chose more complicated path and completely screwed most loved perk in the game that is not toxic like DH or DS.
I ask kindly to refrain from touching BBQ and WGLF.
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@AStupidMonkeyy said:
@Luigifan64 I would like that or they could take away all the brown wreaths that barely give you any bps for using them. That would free up a lot of good stuff in the webs, at least.
This man is brilliant.
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Major buff / rework status should apply only to legion and freddy. Both of them are in absolutely garbage position. Rest should get some tweaks Like doc giving exposed status to tier 3, trapper little moving speed.
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OPs tierlist is much more accurate.
GF should be down little bit, myers up, legion F tier better than freddy.
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@Raccoon said:
If Deep Wounds was a threatening status effect, Legion would be fine.
ATM DW status is laughable. Completely irrelevant.
Legion is unplayable. Don't play legion.
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I already stopped playing killers. They nerf killers way too much. GL watching killers playing survivors just like i am.
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And they're going to stomp him into the ground even more xD
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@Pike_Trickfoot said:
If you want to be really safe, don't play legion until this gets fixed. You might get hit by a ban-wave by accident.
I can't believe devs would ban anyone for just using specific addons. That would reach sky level of ridiculousness and stupidity
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Dear Anybody who reads this rant, Nerf Ghostface because he is somehow decent Nerf Spirit because she can Mindgame Nerf Billy and Leather face because they can down you with one hit Nerf Nurse because she can blink through walls How about just making every killer Wraith and Doctor level?
He actually nailed it. Bullseye. sir.
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Frankly speaking he is not even close to be broken. He doesn't need adjusting obviously... maybe a slight buff, not nerf...
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This is latency. As surv you always have ping. That's why in real killer is slightly closer to you than you see him.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
I think Legion is pretty decent tbh. Not top tier, but decent.
No sir. Legion is slightly better than freddy, worse than wraith. He is VERY bad. Not tremendously, but very.
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@se05239 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/512496#Comment_512496
@ZVom Add a lobby indicator that show who's in a SWF (and with who) and its great. Survivors who's going solo should get rewarded as well for playing with SWFs.
I'm All for that sir se05239
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I understand that everyone wants to play a Ghost Face and etc, but waiting 10+ minutes to just a make a lobby is too long.
Holy crap dude, you waiting only 10 minutes? 15 would be quick as hell but 10? lucky bastard...
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..
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@WakeMeUp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/513617#Comment_513617
u can counter flashlights, u can counter infinite loops but u cannot counter camping aaaaaaaaaand it's pretty boring for both sides.
You have no idea of what you're talking about.
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I think we're gonna live forever should also give you a token for each gen you repair being finished.
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Give damn killers boost to bp at least to let them feel rewarded....
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Still doesnt change anything. Reward is just so weird, gives you more disadvantages than pros. sometimes, you dont want to open gates too early.
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Not punishing SWF!!! Help killers while facing swf, dont nerf survs...
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Nearly impossible to trigger. Unhooking 3 players after powering gates is ridiculous. Blocking gates for the player and giving exposed status are even more irrelevant.
Very bad idea... sorry.
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@Peanits said:
There was a change recently that changed the way that works. Before it would make a lobby right away, then you'd wait for survivors to fill it. Now, it'll look for survivors to fill it and then make the lobby once it's found a match. The overall queue time should not have changed. If you are getting a significantly longer queue time, please let me know and I'll have the team look into it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/525198#Comment_525198
That's not quite the case. It wasn't based purely on the population in different regions, it was fairly random and could happen to anyone. I would previously get instant queues while people who lived a couple blocks away would end up waiting for half an hour. We wouldn't be able to fix long queue times in low population regions with a new matchmaking system. Both systems would gradually expand their filters and accept people from further away if it could not find a lobby.
"The overall queue time should not have changed"
Nice one. It is not the same.
Before when i was playing in low online hours it would take MAX. 10 min. Now it takes at least 20 min.
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@prayer_survivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527401#Comment_527401
95% of comments in these forums are killers crying
Obviously young boy, but not really.
There's many more survs out there than killers, survs see they have no correct reason to cry because survs don't struggle at all. Playing as surv is much easier and most of the time they bully the ######### out of killers and add some salt at the end chat.
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Vault speed bonus on T3 makes him very hard to be looped.
Extra lunge is useful.
With add ons he pretty much excells ghostface in everything.
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Second version looks VEEERY nice. Balanced and good idea overall.
Approved.
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when there was no indication about this perk and you could only tell the killer had it by paying attention at the skillchecks, please, let us love this perk, give the love this perk deserve!
It should happen.
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I agree with all of this said.
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Myers is currently in a very good shape. I dont think he is going to be changed.
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@Zarathos said:
Amen brother. My worry isnt an immediate nerf to ghostface but a nerf post people picking him up in the store.
Unfortunate, but true.
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@tariousx said:
Im with the fact that at mid to high ranks more than half of the killers arent viable. Thats the problem. They really dont want anymore viable killers because of outcry will be received by the tons of over vocal SWF death squads telling them the games broke.
This. So true.
Devs should treat cries of survivors with great distance since there's much more of them than killers.