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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/365791/why-the-toxicity
Ok I responded to you in another post and I'll say it again Bleeding Out and Slugging Survivors is NOT holding the game hostage as the game will end after the Bleedout Timer is done.
Is it annoying to be Slugged and Bleedout...yes it is but I'm the end it's not Holding the Game Hostage.
These people finally got it through their heads (a miracle) that the stuff they don't like isn't reportable. But holding the game hostage is. So now they're desperately trying to twist the narrative so that the stuff they don't like is being held hostage and thus reportable.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354608#Comment_3354608
Saying that it would be nice if survivors weren't able to complete 2/5 of their objective in the span that you complete 1/12 of yours is "wacky"? Saying that camping is unfun to deal with and should be addressed is wacky? Saying that tunneling is unfun to deal with and should be addressed is wacky? Responding to the OP and saying that 3-genning is unfun to deal with and should be addressed is wacky?
I think your response is wacky, but ok.
Yeah, you're just saying stuff. Here. I'll do it too except succinctly.
All of the bad killers should be good.
The game should be perfectly balanced and everyone should have fun 100% of the time.
Perhaps most of the perks in the game should in fact, be good.
This is what you said. It's just broad statements that dont mean anything without specitivity and this is obviously not the place to elaborate on those big ideas. So why muddy your post by including them. It's wacky. Silly. Goofy. Pick your qualifier.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354404#Comment_3354404
Lets list them:
- Trapper
- Myers who isn't using insta kill addons
- Hag
- Doctor
- Ghost face
- Deathslinger
- Knight
- Skull merchant (soon to be)
- Pyramid head
- Sadako that doesn't want to play the unfun slug build
- Basically any killer that doesn't have someway to traverse the map in a meaninful way, or isn't nurse.
But i love how negative this community is. I basically gave you a list of things that probably should be fixed for the health of the game that often agree with what many say around tunneling, camping, 3-gen, etc. And yet somehow you latched onto some other thing i said?
In fairness to that poster, you said a lot of wacky stuff that needs to be individually considered so I can't really blame them for only addressing one thing you said.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/365525/leader-blessing-speeds
This perk itself is rubbish and this buff won't do anything.
The main problem why people don't take auras is that only 1 aura can work and we don't know the perks of our teammates. If a party plays, then they can correctly select perks without repeating themselves and receiving 100% bonuses. But I no longer play solo as survivors since the choice of perks is poor, if I saw the perks of my teammates, then there would be a variety.
I'm not really explicitly trying to buff the perk. The lack of parity scratches my brain the wrong way. Killer perks that effect cleansing should also work against blessing, by the way.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/365727/buff-kinship
In my opinion, the perk should activate itself if the killer stands near the hook for 10 seconds
Ten seconds? Too generous. 2 seconds and if it lasts longer than that the survivor gets a free unhook with three additional health states.
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I also think it's cool. Definitely help for pallet saves for me since I can't ever get flashlight timing right
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@Mechanix82 said:
I Feel they missed a real opportunity on this one. The way it should work is when you unhook a survivor they get the 6 second speed burst. The person who unhooked gets exhausted for 45 seconds. They should make the Borrowed time effect last 16 seconds so after the speed burst you still get 10 seconds of borrowed time. This way the killer get punished extremely for tunneling. Also the killer is incentivized to go after unhooker as they are exhausted and have no lithe, sprintburst, or DEAD HARD!
Actually it should give the unhooked survivor 180s of endurance that is not disabled by performing conspicuous actions, a permanent 10% speed boost and also decisive strike for ten minutes. Then it'd be balanced.
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I think it's pretty cool now.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354140#Comment_3354140
I mean, sure, but we're taking about things like holding a 3 gen from game start for 45 minutes.
The 'fundamental problem' in this case is a core game mechanic of base kit gen defense that is taken to an ultimate extreme. And it only works because the perks are strong enough to allow it to happen and be effective. The perks are the only part that can be nerfed here to make a difference, without going as drastic as removing gen kicking from the game entirely, which is stupid.
And before we inevitably get into a discussion concerning gen speeds... Both regression and progression items and perks need to be toned *down* at some point. Buffing either or both just leads to a more extreme variance in games, and I'd argue we're already at the point where the variance in games is too far to be healthy.
Edit: spelling
The 3 gen thing was enabled entirely by the incap effect. 10% regression is nothing compared to not being able to do anything at all for half a minute. You can do gens through 10%.
Also sick of seeing this regression/progression garbage. These are not two sides of the same coin. If survivors split up with zero gen perks against a B tier and below killer they're likely going to win. But if that killer doesn't bring any regression they're in for a very very difficult match. It's the only way they can keep up enough pressure to threaten survivors. But nuance is too much to expect the general public to understand.
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Ok. The chase music I pick is just no sound at all.
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@healsoflove718 said:
If you play survivor, you get hard tunneled or camped out of the game.
If you play killer, it's all gen rush, dead-hard, and t-bags.
Both sides are unfun to play at this point.
Please make the game fun again, like have survs each get hooked twice! THAT should be the main objective for the killer. The chase is what makes the game fun.
The best matches I have experienced which are SO RARE is when the killer has hooked everyone twice (without tunneling or camping) with 1 or 2 gens left to be done and nobody knows whether you make it out alive or not. That's not happening anymore.
Every online game has swingy matches like this. I'm not even sure how "2 hook every survivor and win" would work or be fun.
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Dunno about the angry and insulting tone of this post, but I absolutely feel that survivors who have been on the ground for like half the duration should be able to give up.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352131#Comment_3352131
Really can't agree, killer has the power in these situations. Can't expect everyone to be happy dying in the first mins, and stealth is useful IF you can get away from killer. Hard to play stealthy if you're tunneled straight off of hook leaving a blood trail, making pain grunts and in all likelyhood a deep wound for good measure.
Having all pallets on the map is a boon for survs who know how to run a good chase, a LOT of survs really don't. Even a good surv can slip up and get downed, latency around pallets etc. And if you lose that first chase and killer wants to tunnel? Game over.
If the killer puts their mind to seriously tunnel a player it's all but impossible for survs to stop them without throwing the game.
I wish there were an easy way to fix it, my suggestion definitely has it's flaws. Didn't consider map size. And I doubt bhvr will do anything major to stop tunneling anyway, they don't do many big updates that aren't new chapters. Just smaller tweaks and nerfs.
They already gave one of the best survivor perks in the game base kit.
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Killers are not there for your amusement or to facilitate your gameplay experience. They are people. They are people who want to play the killer they enjoy. If I'm playing dredge and I get stuck on garden of joy four times in a row because it suits someone's idea of theming I am going to feel incredibly frustrated. Popular killers also don't deserve longer queue times because you don't like them. They're popular for a reason. If people have fun with them then there's nothing wrong with that.
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I've noticed the same thing. It's very strange and makes me feel like the bonus is deceptive for some reason.
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My favorite post is "pause the hook timer when the killer is near the hook". I hoot and holler. Chuckle and chortle. Never gets old.
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Not sure how nerfing Save fits into this, but absolutely. Positive effects are much better than punitive ones.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352584#Comment_3352584
I mean to be fair they called all the survivor HUD "QoL" and not a buff..so by their standards it would be QoL.
Yes, and they're wrong. I ate a temp ban for calling out Mandy on her insistence that constant, mapwide information is "quality of life". You can tell me water won't get me wet until you pass out but that does not make it so.
Quality of life is stuff like the helpful indicators as to challenge progress in game and being able to view the store while queuing. It's not adding stuff base, like the BT basekit was an inarguable buff. Like adding those two (necessary) add-ons would be a buff.
Again let me be clear: I think these buffs are a great idea and sorely needed. But they're still buffs.
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@Bwsted said:
Fair argument, ngl. You'll probably get berated anyway.
How? Survivors love dead hard and they're the majority voice in any discussion of the game. People also love contrary opinions after things have settled.
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@Gylfie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352696#Comment_3352696
Yeah, in that sense the perk is fine, but in the sense of ensuring that Pain Res blocks gens with DMS (which is also what Otz advertised in the video), I don't really see that working anymore. I'd personally use something more impactful than five seconds of exhaustion to finish the build.
Yeah, people vastly overrate fearmonger.
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These are not quality of life. They're buffs. Much welcomed buffs but still buffs.
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It's not "wasting a perk slot" if it does something you want to counter.
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It would be really cool, but I've read that it's impossible with the way they've coded unreal 3. Or whichever one they use.
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No thank you. No more handholding please.
Besides, I already know what perks survivors are running. Dead hard, Windows, circle of healing and prove thyself. Don't need any indicators.
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@wydyadoit said:
so… i play r6 siege and league of legends. Both have honor/reputation systems.
the way disconnects work in dbd is simple. If you disconnect during a match you get hit with a matchmaking ban for a certain amount of time. I’m not 100% sure, but i think it stacks if you do it multiple times within a time frame.
however, as far as killing oneself on a hook goes… slippery meat builds, self unhooking challenges, busy lives, and various other perks and mechanics that go into the thought process of “do i try to self unhook” and “do i bother struggling”
…I don’t think these things should be punished. Because technically they already are. If you choose to attempt a self unhook and succeed you unhook yourself which is actually a challenge. If a player fails then they die quicker. And if they choose to not struggle then their emblems and bloodpoint gains are reduced in survival and unbroken.
and at the end of the day survivors always have the option to swf if you really need that try hard team.
killers benefit in almost every regard when a survivor rage quits except when it comes to adepts and 4k sacrifice specific challenges. So you’re really only hurting your teammates and yourself as a quitter.
I'm pretty sure most killers really hate it when survivors give up. You're just going through the motions at that point. It's not interesting. Maybe that's just me though. I'm the opposite of stoked when someone gives up.
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@Technature said:
CoH is broken as is, why make it worse?
Because nobody runs leader anyway and the inconsistency annoys me.
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Is it miserable because you win with very little challenge and only engaging and difficult games make you happy?
Cuz it couldn't possibly be that he's difficult to play against or strong in any sense of the word. That'd be ridiculous.
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I don't understand why the reverted the boon snuffing thing they had for a while. It was so so nice to not have to jigger yourself perfectly to snuff.
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Every time I play rpd with scourges it's usually a lost cause. They spawn in the most useless clusters in that map.
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Jolt has inconsistent value anyway. Down at the corner of the map? No jolt. Map too big? No jolt. Survivor knows to run in a locker when they're about to go down? No jolt.
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Reassurance is already an s-tier perk. Tradeoff is that you have to give the killer another target instead of stealthing around the hook.
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I don't understand your first one. Survivors get exposed when triggering a dream snare or pallet?
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@yobuddd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350134#Comment_3350134
True, equivalency isn’t needed for everything, but it’s not something that needs to be avoided either. Just a possible avenue for inspiration. We already have various forms of it in the game anyway. Window of Opportunity vs Zanshin Tactics, hexes vs boons, Exposed vs Endurance. Some things are just like each other, while others are more of a push vs pull relationship, but the equivalency is still there.
Anyway, my idea is based on the concept of a skilled play. Dead Hard allows a survivor to make a split-second high-skill play based on the psychology of your opponent. My idea here allows killers the opportunity to do the same.
Well, no. You'd just hit the button before you m1 every time. And I'd argue the equivalence for like half the stuff you said anyway.
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Dead hard for killers would be this, but it'd expose survivors for .5s. Instead of an additional health state they lose an additional health state.
This is of course ridiculous and unworkable. Cuz the game is, yaknow, asymmetrical. Trying to bring equivalency between everything just doesn't work.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324779#Comment_3324779
Then you need to give another task to the survivors and make sure that the survivor on the hook is not attractive to the killer.
There is a crazy idea with ghosts, but it will definitely reduce toxicity (if anyone has played "Phasmophobia", then it is there, God, even in "Among Us")
When a survivor dies, he turns into a spirit and can repair generators, respectively, the killer cannot do anything to him, or after the blow, the ghost disappears and appears in another place. What is the point? The fact is that normal survivors repair generators more slowly, but as a ghost they repair generators 2-3 times faster. It is not profitable for the killer to kill immediately, but to make all the survivors hang on the hook 1-2 times before dying.
I sure do love ideas that punish killers for doing their jobs!
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@Defend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349080#Comment_3349080
Currently Prestige 21 on The Knight, been playing him ever since I learned about his independent patrol tech between his PTB and Patch 6.4.2, having fun with displacing his patrol path on slopes/objects and now practicing on his pallet tech. Spamming down guards is not his only form of anti-loop, rarely do I do it since being able to instantly break a pallet when its dropped gets me more hits than his standard plop-n'-go (here's a good example if you want to see it in action).
Yes Dead Hard is an oppressive counter to your guards. Spam it or spend time setting up, all the survivor has to do is press e and run to the next loop. Stated before, I mentioned that it's uncounterable in corners. Anywhere else the survivor just holds W (as is the standard for any anti-loop). In corners however the survivor can't get anywhere else. You plop your guard down, the survivor can't move away since it takes less than a second to activate, you wait near any form of exit to prevent them from running away and finally the guard gets the hit, rinse and repeat until downed. That's uncounterable, there's nothing a survivor can do in that scenario. I don't really see a problem with a change like "under 10m they act like nemesis zombies (with pallets)" because it incentivizes long-distance patrols while at least giving a chance for survivors to stall the Knight in more uncounterable scenarios.
Not stated in my paragraph before, but there still needs to be a lot of work done to The Knight to make him better. If you played Knight before, you've seen the Guards at windows. The penalty of slowdown makes it so Jailer doesn't even have a chance to catch up, Carnifex becomes a joke and if you don't have Dried Horsemeat (which basically you should run every game), The Assassin will never get a hit in. Ever felt the pain of playing him on Lery's then there is no judgement my brother.
There is also addon-dependency (Dried Horsemeat, Call to Arms, Map of the Realm) and horrid rarity addons that need a rework. But before any buff, there needs to be an address to his anti-loop. It's the worst part of his kit, involves zero skill, uncounterable in corners and is not fun for both sides (if you are, props to you).
Prestige doesn't mean anything except how many blood points you cram down a given killer's throat. Considering that we're coming off an event that gave about a million BP every match it means very little indeed.
(As an aside I feel like a psycho for being the only person that pays zero attention to pips, prestige rank and all that. I have no idea what any of my people's prestige are because I don't pay any attention to it. I hold the button down sometimes in the middle and go to the next awful bloodweb. Who cares?)
That "tech" just looks like an exploit or a bug. If you need that kinda thing to for your guy to be viable then it should just be part of their kit in a codified fashion.
You're vastly oversimplifying the guard: survivor loop interaction. You plop your guard down, congrats the survivor is gone by then. Especially if there's no map of the realm in play. He's borderline unplayable without it. His anti loop is vastly overstated and conditional on line of sight blockers. If the guard isn't chasing with you then you're stuck as an m1 killer without a power so you have to be predicative to some degree with it. The only time you can thoughtlessly put a guard down is at a low loop but like any killer can outplay those. The game's wall to wall with uncounterable stuff, that's the only way killers win chases against good survivors.
Your solution is to make him F tier until they sort out some theoretical way to play him that doesn't turn him into discount spirit. You acknowledge his weaknesses and addon dependence and then just handwave them. Absolutely bizzare. Do you hate yourself when you play him? It sure sounds like it.
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Hey, guess what? I also spent my hard-earned money on the game and I love love love just standing there and watching survivors die on hook.
There, my money negates yours. Unless your purchase is somehow more important than mine?
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349225#Comment_3349225
Maybe bit unfair agains't huntress as you have to aim the hatchet but you can at least wait bit before throwing them most survivors can't react if you're enough close and usually they try to predict. Knight just places quard and Al does the job for him so I think the guards should not be able to down survivors only injure and cause deep wound or it should require more hits like nemesis tentacle.
You're absolutely correct. Knight should simply not have a power versus injured survivors. For hand wavey "AI" reasons. Brilliant suggestion.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349159#Comment_3349159
I think it's not good that Al is getting down for knight so dh agains't that is only good thing. He is anyway only killer without counterplay. Unless you count holding W as long as you can counterplay...
The guards aren't getting reliable hits or downs unless the survivor is making massive misplays. Dead hard severely neuters his power by giving survivors an on-demand speed boost that the knight cannot wait out. It's unfair and feels much like how it feels when your hatchet gets ignored.
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I'd rather it be earned somehow so it doesn't have 100% uptime whenever you're injured. Unhooks. Gen progress. Healing others. Something to make it earned.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348828#Comment_3348828
I get where you're coming from but my suggestion was more for reducing/removing stuns from killers in general by making it a perk and not just the clown
Yeah, killers shouldn't be able to do stuff. You're absolutely right. If you bring whatever perk you're talking about clown's power should just not do anything.
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@Defend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/364516/knights-ghosts-idea
100%, I've always wanted a counter to his anti-loop. Yes he has counters such as dead hard, unhook and banner. But not everyone brings DH, not every situation revolves around a unhook and a Knight who knows how to anti-loop doesn't give banner as an option.
I would like the guards to be treated similar to nemesis zombies IF the patrol path is shorter than 10 meters. I always want long-distance patrols to be incentivized while the "plop-n'-go" strategy to be punished more. There's a few buffs that The Knight needs in general (such as addon dependency and weaker high rarity addons), but he also needs a counter to an uncountable playstyle (in corners)
If you neuter his anti loop then literally all he has left is holding a three gen. Is that what you want? Right now chase knight is a suboptimal option but still an option.
Dead hard counters knight hard. You say it's not in every game, which is categorically untrue. 3/4 survivors run it every game for me. I am not exaggerating. I can wait it out, my guards cannot. If the survivors are in a bad spot they'll literally run into the guards for a speed boost. It's infuriating.
I dunno how much you've played knight but I suspect it's not at all or very little. The stuff you're asking for would kill the character. Imagine if artist couldn't shoot crows over pallets. That's basically what you're asking for.
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@Dsg4041 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347967#Comment_3347967
That's a great challenge gauntlet thrown at Behavior :P
Hah, more seriously, I would say that like 70-90% of the Killers would be very easy to figure out I think. There'd also might be a very common, conservative "Killer Corrupt Time" that's set at like 15 seconds and which takes the guesswork out of it for many borderline Killers.
Finally, I'd look at this new feature/mechanic as something very fun and interesting. What if Behavior really did mess up little on like 5%-10% of the Killers? We know it wouldn't be on the most obvious suspects like Nurse on one end and Trapper at the other. But there could be a lot of fun if Behavior maybe gave one Killer like 10-20 seconds longer "Killer Corrupt Time" than they probably should have (Maybe like Pig?). It would give them a "Meta Period" until the next tinkering of "Killer Corrupt Times" across the board!
It's easy to figure out for you and me. They have unfathomable thought processes that lead to perks that do stuff like "let the unhooker run away from the unhooked at mach 10". There's no way they could get this right.
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@Dsg4041 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3346826#Comment_3346826
Yeah, exactly)) We got Survivor Activity Icons and BT Basekit for everyone, it would make some sense to have a new, small Basekit Killer feature as well) It reminds me of the Basekit Gen Kicks being mini-2.5% Pops as they are now!
Micro pop, more than mini.
There's no way behavior interactive could balance this overly thought out mechanic. They'd give Wesker like 40s corrupt and hag like 10 or whatever. They just do stuff without thinking about how it'll work.
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Why are you trying to frame people who don't like her design as misogynistic? Pretty disingenuous. Harmful to actual instances of misogyny. She's just a conventionally attractive lady with a mask. It's not an interesting design. If she were a man she'd be a conventionally attractive man with a mask and the design would also be uninteresting.
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@Ithiria said:
Honestly, watching good killers like Otz play knight, it seems like people are using him wrong?
The way otz seems to play is not just dropping a guard at every opportunity to chase somebody, he seems to play it as an M1 killer and uses guards to break pallets and to chase survivors in dead zones. Otherwise he sometimes sends guards a long distance to pressure gens while doing something else.
Basically, you might be overusing your power.
Otz plays every killer the same way, because he plays the game professionally and is really good at reading and predicting survivor behavior. Anyone can do that given time.
That's not how I prefer to play the game though. If you give me magic ghosts to fart out I am absolutely doing it at every opportunity. I play him like discount spirit because it's fun for me. It sucks that it's not really viable against good survivors.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
I don't understand the point of this.
Even if the devs were any-sided, what does a post like this achieve?
They want a dev to come in and give them attention.
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I don't get the analogue between the two...... Like at all. Who are the prisoners and who are the guards? Who are the authority figures briefing the participants on what is expected of them? Who are the observers? All of these things play an integral role to the experiment and are either not present in the game or have only a loose comparison between one and the other. It just doesn't make any sense.
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Everyone? That's simply not true. I feel like a new game mode would fracture the playerbase for a time, then nobody would play it after a month. Waste of developer resources.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345087#Comment_3345087
play a map like Gideon packing plant with him. As soon as the survivor get to the edge of the map, all you have to do is drop guard and pincer the survivor. there is no counter-play for the survivor to outplay the killer ability. you physically cannot prevent him from getting a hit.
Conversely, if the knight tries to draw long patrols away from the survivor, the survivor can shift-w the guard and the killer will never get a hit with his ability. Useless ability vs shift-w.
he is too strong at erasing loops when you cannot avoid the pincer and completely ineffective in the middle of map when playing against the usual m1 killer game. Playing vs him reminds me of playing killers that utilize brutal strength perk effectively.
Uh huh. So you want to remove his ability to chase in conjunction with his guards. The guards cannot reliably hit on their own. So he's got no anti loop. So what's he got left? Aggressively holding a 3 gen from the start of the game. And that's it. You want to make his least interactive play style his only viable one.
You're just saying how a killer power works. Yes, they do things. Yes they're better on some maps than others. A doctor is inevitably going to get a hit on you on many loops with his shocks. Does he need a nerf? Are you aware that clown can slow you on the open and you'll inevitably get hit? Are you aware that legion has uncounterable detection on you after a frenzy slash? Different killers are good at different things.