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I posted something this this a while ago. Tentacles bursting out when eruption procs. Water dripping off the gen for call of brine. There's dozens of little flourishes you could add. They'd have a mild impact on balance but whatever.
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@Milo said:
Damn, people here are very unforgiving huh.
DBD has the most insanely toxic community I've ever seen. It's remarkable.
I burn bps every game every time there's a bloodrush going on. If I get spooky scary tunneled or gen rushed oh well? I still got more bp than I would have otherwise, and other people getting more doesn't affect me at all.
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@Ricardo_Ko said:
Sounds you're all killer Mains.
A bad idea is a bad idea. If someone proposed bringing old moris back few would argue for it regardless of what side they prefer. It'd be a bad idea, just like this.
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I just want to be able to leave during the egc. Ushering survivors out is so tedious every single game I lose.
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@Mushmallow said:
Hiding and not doing gens is bannable.
If you're following them around, recording them, submitting a ticket with the footage attached they might get banned.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434511#Comment_3434511
Base-UB can be performed anywhere and can leverage crawling to its own gain.
Base-UB can be performed and still synergizes with co-op pickup given it's tied to Recovery.
Base-UB scales with Recovery speed.
Base-UB disregards Hook state/placement.
Base-UB contributes to map/Hook imbalance.
Base-UB adds no new gameplay. There is no distinct approach to utilizing it.
Base-UB detracts from gameplay. There is less incentive to go for a slug if they get up in roughly the same time it would take to go and pick them up in the first place.
This is basekit unbreakable. How often are you father than five feet from a given hook? They're pretty dense on every map but midwich.
The risk/reward is simply not there. It takes 30.5s to be fully recovered. It takes 32s to crawl up a hook. There's no reason to ever not simply try and get yourself up. You can either sit and try to recover which the killer can come back negate by picking you up, or you can climb up a hook which the killer can also negate by picking you up. Except one ties up a teammate and the other does not. There's no reason to ever recover.
It's weird how you're trying to torture this into anything but base unbreakable. It's like you're trying to convince yourself more than anything else.
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Remove perks? No. You can condense a lot of them while buffing bad ones at the same time. Combine the effects of premonition and lightweight, for example.
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I just wish sac wards were more common.
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This is just basekit unbreakable. You get that, right? Surely you anticipated this response.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434141#Comment_3434141
Which is typically during endgame (when this is deactivated) or when other survivors are nearby (when this slows down, and means those others survivors aren't gaining anything from it).
I'm talking about when 2-3 gens pop during your first chase. If the game is gonna be remotely competitive after that point you're going to have to force a trade or two or secure second stage. It punishes killers without mobility or an instadown especially.
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I thought it was really cool to shine a light onto my bird swarmed teammate to help them out. Not even sure most people knew about that one.
The flashlight interactions were cool and flavorful. It's sad when a game gets all it's weird little edges shaved off. It's a lesser thing for it.
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The frustrating part of this conversation that seems to be left out, is that sometimes the only option you have to salvage a game is to sit by the hook and force out a hook state. People don't have to like it, they can find it offensive, but sometimes it's gotta be done. Not an option anymore.
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This is confirmation bias. Nobody is interfering with the stuff you are trying to do specifically. You only remember the times you were trying to go for that stuff and you mind glosses over the times it wasn't a problem.
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Well, the thread merger at least means someone is reading this. I don't think they'll walk it back though.
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Does the change mean that you no longer get the lingering outline of the survivor when they scream? Just a loud noise notification? If so they've made every perk and addon with that effect considerably worse.
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@MrMori said:
Why not make weaker killers more viable instead of keeping broken perks around "because they're fine on F tier killers lol"
I think most people would like this, but behavior simply don't have the interest/bandwidth for doing it.
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Well at least you didn't say "killer main here but gosh darn something has to be done about these filthy tactics, right fellow killer mains?"
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They'll never do this because they cannot moderate it. On a personal note, I'm incredibly thankful that children can't screech at me via a 5$ wal mart microphone for doing stuff they don't like.
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Make em purple and call it a day.
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I'd take fifty sprint bursts over dead hard. I've been "waiting it out" for years. Hugging survivor's asses and playing the spin spin spin game thousands of times. Just tired of it. It's time for a change.
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It's not the engine, it's the cut-rate servers they rent. They can't manage pathing more than two zombies without choking up.
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@stonedcandle said:
"To give it a slight boost we're removing the cooldown entirely."
Is that what we're calling slight boosts now?
It had a 60-second-long cooldown. That's not a slight boost that's a massive buff. It really does seem like they're trying to push players away from the killer. My guess is they're very close to working killer bots which will solve all of their problems.
It answers the question now. Do you break the pallet or keep chasing? You break the pallet. Every time. No question. Otherwise, you're setting yourself up for doubling the map's pallets.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342527#Comment_3342527
I already use it on almost every killer. The number of pallets and doors and the occasional gen kick the .5s here and there add up.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362174#Comment_3362174
There are THREE other survivors in the game with you. It basically means after the patch every pallet HAS to be broken or you're giving the survivors DOUBLE the pallets.
"But that's only with SWFs!"
SWFing constitutes over 80% of matches according to the developers' own statistics! The data is from years ago so it's guaranteed to be higher than that now.
This is true. Taking something from a minute long cooldown to no cooldown is pretty heavy power creep. I understand the perk is a mediocre "meme perk" right now, but the right insane buff can make any perk op, or at least a huge pain. Look at boil over and overcharge, for reference. It should have maybe a 20-30s cooldown.
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I like it as a change of pace from the structure of every other map. It's painful to play on as most killers. Like if I'm playing low/no regression dredge the survivors basically just get to win and there's not a lot I can do about it. But that's okay. It's still a change of pace.
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@EvilSerje said:
10 minutes before swarm of sorry-killers drop and start "explaining" how it is a "proper" strategy (that for some reason works only on unorganized and fresh new teams)
Time to invent some people to preemptively be mad at, I guess.
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I see no reason Chris Pratt can't simply play every role.
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@Gandor said:
BNP's, syringes, styptics are survivor's equivalent of killer bringing compound33+alch ring, mother-daughter ring+amulet, tombstone piece+quick stalk, etc.
If we want to remove worst nuclear options in game, let's do that consistently. I don't find it fair to remove big guns just from one side and let the other (btw killer's don't have their busted addons consume themselves upon use without possibility of protecting it with ward already - so there's already disparity) side nuke ppl without anything to combat that. That just feels too bad.
But overall - sure. The game would feel better if no side had unfairly big guns.
This is not how asymmetrical games work. As killer I can encounter those items every game. As survivor I know I'm not dealing with blighted crow on clown. There's no option to slap a mother daughter ring on dredge and zoom around.
Powerful one time use items are more consistent on survivors than killers by the nature of the game. If you gut BNP you take a tool out of survivor hands. If you gut alch ring it does nothing to me because I don't play that dude. I'm just saying they aren't a coin with two sides. They're just two different coins entirely.
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Well. Yeah ok. That would do it.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361514#Comment_3361514
Can't do gens if you're being camped
Then you die, and depip for your troubles
Oh no. Not pips. Anything but that.
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20% is too much. 5% per survivor would be impactful.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360848#Comment_3360848
Really? I kind of like it and it would be interesting to go against in pub matches but unfortunately it's just not common enough, only sadakos I see just play "normal" which is dissspointing really because that's an entire mechanic being unused
You like laying on the ground doing nothing? Why? Are you watching YouTube or doing coursework while playing the game?
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361290#Comment_3361290
How? If the killer is 5m away from hook when unhooking (because he proxied/zoned the whole time - so in fact he could get this close once unhooked) - there's no way to get away. With exception to sprint burst, non-depleted lucky break, Q&Q, indoor map, killer without too much mobility and huge dose of luck. I presume you will not say "see there's your counterplay" for this one. There are no unhook perks that make you run quicker then killer for considerable amount of time.
The game tends to have what we in the community call "loops". Suggest going to one of those.
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Honestly sounds kinda fun. Pretty sure it's heavily in favor of the killer though.
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"Game bad"
Okay. I doubt that's very enlightening to anyone who cares
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@Brokenbones said:
Any buff to Sadako should also address the Elephant in the room (or rather the Elephant on the floor) that is the condemn slugging playstyle
IMO at least.
You're absolutely right. I think a lot of people(me at least) find it vastly unappealing and wish so much of her power weren't wrapped up in it.
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@Gandor said:
This killer is not weak by any means. You can see it in last kill stats. Also if you want to see her strength go watch onePumpWillie - a streamer that has 200 winstreak on her.
It's just that the killer requires certain addons and playstyle to be very very hard to deal with. You would need to delete this type of play before we can talk about buffs (which would alienate players that like exactly this).
Nobody likes that condemned garbage. Slugging survivors over and over is incredibly dull gameplay. I do not care what a streamer man does or says.
Every part of her kit works against her and she is hamstrung by the mori stuff which is useless unless you force it. Kill rates also mean exactly nothing without context. Twins are "high MMR monsters". You think they don't need changes?
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If he were brought up to modern killer standards you'd have a ring around him showing his far his chainsaw reaches, a timer for his tantrum that counts down on the screen, and I dunno, the survivors could grab the chainsaw and run away with it after a tantrum.
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The pendulum has definitely swung the other way. I play whatever side gets me into a game the fastest and post shakeup patch it was like 80/20 survivor and killer. It's back to pre patch levels, maybe worse? Queues are back to 5+minutes on survivor after 7pm est, instant for killer.
Consequently I've been playing a lot more killer and my low tier, low regression games have gotten very very difficult.
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I think maybe if the speed burst was less or if it has to be earned in some way it'd feel less oppressive? I really don't know.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360370#Comment_3360370
Trust me it's not my goal to complain about Knight, I'd be happy to just file him in the "killers people hate" category and leave it at that but I feel like it's worth discussing ideas, even just for the sake of it.
I also agree, I don't know how you could feasibly change his core power outside of number tweaks or a full on rework (Which won't happen because he just came out).
I think people will naturally have to branch out when eruption gets nerfed and holding a three gen is far less strong. I play chase knight to moderate success. You could add some regression to my build and get good results if you wanted. People will figure this out.
I just love knight how he is. Cycling guards, having a ghost friend do stuff while I do other things is cool as hell. I'm scared he'll get gutted or his best addons will get nerfed like toy sword because he basically doesn't work without them because of the complaining. It makes me defensive.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360353#Comment_3360353
Sounds like defeatism to me, it's worth discussing.
Sorry. I'm being irrational. The constant knight complaining just makes me annoyed. Same thing when people complain about legion.
The frequent idea is to punish him drawing short lines. If you do that then it just shores up three genning as his only play style because he can't pincer with his guards.
The other idea is to heavily incentivize drawing long lines and cutting survivors off. Which is just spirit with extra steps and less reliability whether or not you get a down because you're relying on DBD pathing to do it.
Like, none of this stuff works. I'm tired of seeing it over and over again. Knight is fine. His niche is long chases with very likely hits. This puts him into B-tier. That's his identity. It's no different than doctor shocking or artist using her birds for ten different things or clown making your vision blurry.
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It is really weird that this isn't a feature.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360340#Comment_3360340
Please read the title of this thread as well as this part here
(Also worth noting I don't think any/all of these ideas should be added at once):
Nowhere in this thread have I stated Knight needs flat nerfs, the topic of the thread is what changes could be made to make Knight more enjoyable for survivors so that is the content of the thread
Side note, I do think that nerfs should come with some buffs - I'm just not all that enthusiastic about Knight's kit from a Killer POV so I don't know what I would change to make him more fun for Killer.
There's nothing you can do to him that doesn't make him Bad Spirit or make him only good at protecting a 3 gen. Just let it lie.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360316#Comment_3360316
Is it not wrong to say his power feels extremely forgiving right now, though?. I'm not saying he should be locked out of his power 24/7 but I think the spamability of it is a little excessive. He can even cancel patrols now, which isn't a change I disliked being added don't get me wrong.
I get your point about "spending time as a 4.6" but I'm gonna be honest with you, Knight doesn't down you with his power basically ever. He downs you when he eventually puts you in a spot where you either take an m1 from him or you take a hit from a guard and then get m1'd anyway. This goes especially if he's using his power to pester survivors on generators and then chasing as a normal 4.6 anyway
I'll ask you for your take though, do you think his power is fine the way it is from a survivor POV?
It's not spammable. If you avoid a guard or if the guard messes up with line of sight blockers then they're out of a guard for the duration of their patrol. God help you if you think jailer is gonna detect someone and he doesn't for whatever reason and you have to chase the survivor without a power at all.
You just want hard nerfs for knight, a B-tier killer at best. You don't like playing against him. Fine, whatever. I don't like playing against about a dozen things but I'm not trying to get them gutted.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360239#Comment_3360239
You're probably not around very often then. - The last one was just a few days ago with last replies today. They're not the daily flood of DH-related threads - but there is a new thread about it every other week-ish and pretty consistently. Pretty much everyone agrees, so they usually don't get much traction and get drowned out by more controversial topics after a few days or a week or so --- until someone makes a new.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360243#Comment_3360243
How about you voice your opinion in a less condescending tone?
That being said; many people - me and everyone I know included - cares about pips. Not so much about the grand total at the end of the month but on a match by match basis. And just like the "gg ez" of a player who employs scummy/toxic tactics is adding insult to injury, a de-pip after something entirely out of your control happened is also adding insult to injury. The difference is that the latter is literally built into the game - when it doesn't serve an actual purpose anymore. (Safe from discouraging DCing / AFKing)
Additionally, since escapes/sacrifices aren't a particularly good measurement of how well you did in a match the next best thing are the emblems. They are the game giving you feedback on how well you did in certain aspects. - If it actually worked, that would be great. But certain mechanics inherent to the game make it impossible for you to get points in certain categories - no matter how well you play.
This forum already adulterates my speech to a startling degree. Not gonna water it down more just to make you happy.
You're right in that I'm atypical in not caring about pips. I also don't pay attention to emblems or know what actions contribute to what category. The only thing I care about on the endgame screen is what build my opponent brought and to chat with them if the censor is having a good day. It's weird to me that anyone pays attention to the skinner box gold star mechanics in games that don't actually do anything. We're all strange animals in that way.
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How about you just click past the pip screen and pretend like you got however many little dots you feel is appropriate? It effects absolutely nothing except some blood points whenever rank resets and who isn't absolutely swimming in BP these days? I honestly dread it because then I have to put on a podcast and spend BP for twenty minutes.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360159#Comment_3360159
It may not work, I'm mostly just throwing ideas out at this point because I don't really know what else to do with him.
If this makes him too weak then he probably just needs a more substantial rework because as he is now he's terrible killer design and gets free anti-loop for doing nothing. But nerfing his chase potential too much will reinforce 3-genning, that's a fair point.
I don't have a problem with anti-loop, I like interesting anti-loop abilities because it provides something unique to that killer beyond just the regular m1 killer gameplay. I have a problem with anti-loop that basically allows the game to do all the work for you, and the Knight's anti-loop is the only anti-loop in the game that does that. Artist's is fine because her anti-loop doesn't do that; even though the survivor's best option is often to leave the loop against her too just like with Knight, her crows have more counterplay involved and can be juked, and the Artist player needs to actually land their shots in order for it to work. Knight's has no such gameplay for either side.
Sometimes killers just do stuff. It's not necessarily a problem to be fixed. Plague negates healing builds. Dredge hampers your ability to see stuff. On occasion onryo can straight up murder somebody. These are just attributes of the killers and that's ok.
Play knight against good survivors sometime. The other day I went against a Dwight that juiced me in ways I did not know were possible as knight and it was honestly very enlightening. He's moderately loopable if you keep track of where you have been. Certainly nowhere near artist in terms of anti loop.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Knight's anti-loop is boring but he's not actually that strong in chase despite that and in order to reduce guard lethality at loops he would need buffs in other areas.
I'm just brainstorming here, but maybe your idea could be applied only to guards with short path distances (so it would apply to insta-dropped guards) and any guard over a certain range threshold would behave the same way it does now (with the capability to down survivors). This way, we're not nerfing long-range guards at all because that's not the issue with him.
I would then also argue half of each of his three best addons (Map of the Realm, Dried Horsemeat, Call to Arms) should be taken out of the addons and put into his basekit (so for example, Carnifex's base patrol vision range would be 10 meters instead of 8, and the addon would add 2 meters instead of 4, keeping it at 12 with the addon). Then he probably needs a buff to guards created from longer patrol paths, and since we're basically making guards similar to Legion's Frenzy with this idea if they're short-range/insta-dropped at a loop, I think it'd be reasonable to make any guard hit apply deep wound to healthy survivors (not just Assassin). This won't even make much of a difference as it's usually more optimal for the survivor to get hit by the Knight anyway and not the guard, if they have a choice between the two.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359952#Comment_3359952
One other thing they could do with longer-range guards is nerf the Standard with longer patrol paths. If the Knight isn't there to pressure with the guard you can just grab the flag after 5 seconds (10 if it's Carnifex) and at that point the guard isn't providing much of a delay. I think it's fine as it is with short-range guards in chase but a bit too powerful if the Knight is far away/not chasing the survivor. You don't even need to grab the flag at all to avoid getting injured by guards outside of chase, so that wouldn't really change, but they could provide more macro pressure by delaying survivors a bit longer.
People have this goofy idea of neutering his anti loop by punishing short dropped guards. It doesn't work. Without the paltry anti loop he has you're down to chasing survivors with your orb and spawning a guard on them which plays like discount spirit on top of doing..... absolutely nothing. Congratulations, your guards are chasing someone on the other side of the map. Now what? They're gone by the time you catch up and if they're not then you're playing the loop just like you would if you'd short-dropped the guard at the last loop. It just makes his long chases take even longer and enforces the three-gen thing at his only valid option.
I dunno if people don't play knight or don't think out these ideas. Or if they just hate knight and want him to be unplayable.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360150#Comment_3360150
You can't... people are people
Ok. Then what's the point of wasting dev time on separate queues when there's no real enforceable difference between them?
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@RaSavage42 said:
It's a balance thing...
How does BHVR get comp players to play the game and how does BHVR get casual players to play the game
Well... they could split them up... comp players can play ranked and casual players can play unranked
How do you ensure one stays in one and the other stays in the other?
In any case the proportion of comp to casual players is vastly skewed to casual. Hardly anybody cares about comp and they're honestly not worth catering to.
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360072#Comment_3360072
I like how you're a stickler for calling happy death day a comedy thriller, and then proceed to call hereditary a horror movie, which it's mostly a family drama. Lol.
Also, a24 isn't a studio, so they don't make most of the movies they have under their belt, they mainly are a distributor.
Yeah it definitely can be read that way and that is a big part of what makes it so effective. Are the events depicted reality, or is it about familiar relations through a dark lens? That's really interesting and gives you more to chew on than like.....a ghost pops out and rips your fingers off.