Xernoton
Xernoton
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362223#Comment_3362223
Mhmmm. I thought we didn't want to nuke perks simply because they were popular? Self-Care and PGTW come to mind.
Don't get me wrong, nuking perks is something I don't think should be the go-to solution to this issue. But what else are you going to do at this point? The pick rate shouldn't be as high as it is. Especially when that perk requires counterplay that consists of waiting.
Reasonable nerfs aren't going to cut it because there are too many people that will not stop bringing DH religiously. The remaining options are to nuke DH or to rework it from the ground up. I'm fine with either of those.
I just want that stupid waiting and spinning to bait out a hit or giving free health states in my matches to end.
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Thanks. I almost forgot DH was still a thing. It's good to be reminded of that.
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@Saiph said:
The best part of this topic is when you try to find "something difficult to use" to compare with Dead Hard, and your example is... NURSE? Have you even spent more than 1 hour on Nurse? She's not hard. Yes, her power is unique and not straightforward to use, but the counterplay for survivor is also unique and not straightforward to learn, so it balances out, I started playing Nurse 6 months ago, and even while learning her blinks, I was still able to dominate every game. She even has an add-on to help learn her power.
Having to practice something for a few hours does not mean it's hard. You as killer need to learn your power. Guess what, that's what survivors have to do, but they have to do it for each killer, so 30x more the effort.
Dead Hard, is WAY harder than you give it credit for. You need to know how to loop to get use out of it, which is already a ~400 hour requirement. Then, you need to time it, but considering it has a 100ms delay, with BHVR's buggy servers and survivors not being allowed to see killer's ping, I wouldn't be surprised if you needed another 400 hours to get consistent use out of it. Even survivor streamers can't get it to work half of the time against predictable lunges.
I can tell that you have never played with Dead Hard, and you have not played with Nurse more than a ferw hours, most likely, you have not even discovered 10% of the depth that is in the chase game, but because killer is so ridiculously easy now, you won a lot of underserved games and now you're getting matched against survivors way above your real skill level. Dead Hard is easy to bait out and almost every time if you lose to DH it means that you got outplayed. If you don't believe it, try to play as a survivor yourself with Dead Hard for a week, and you'll see. With all the tutorials nowadays even beginner killers know how to bait it out.
I personally agree that Nurse isn't as hard as some people claim. For me it took probably 10 games to get feeling for her power and after that I was mostly fine. Others have more trouble with that though.
Something being easy or difficult is always subjective. For some people Nurse is incredibly hard, for some she is easy. And seeing how there are quite a few people that can DH on reaction and will always get a 3rd health state against a killer, that uses their power this definitely applies to DH as well.
You can guess things about me all you want. I don't care. The fact that DH deserves to be gutted or completely reworked still remains.
I made another post not too long ago. I suggest you read through it. There are many more arguments about DH in that thread. No amount of "But DH is fine..." will change that it is an objectively problematic perk.
@Xernoton said:
It took 6 years for this perk to finally get a nerf with the big meta shake up in patch 6.1.0. That patch pushed Ruin and Pop out of the meta as well as some other perks. BHVR nuked Ruin and Pop so hard they're arguable pretty weak right now. Yes, you can get value out of them but both are too weak to even be worth a perk slot when there are so many better alternatives, which is why killers use different perks. Not to mention you don't need to heavily adjust your gameplay to these perks.
Why does DH get a pass? It's been in the meta for 6 years. We got a rework and now the completely uncounterable DH for distance is gone. Only this didn't remove the perk from the meta at all. At first we saw countless arguments about how useless DH was, however now it's back in every game on multiple survivors. The game is still Dead by Dead Hard. The perk defines the killer experience. You (as an experienced player) will not go into a game and not play around DH.
Killers became CONDITIONED to play around a perk that they don't even know is in the game yet. You cannot tell me that this is a good design. We see countless complaints about it because the one thing that really needed to change was having to wait every single time before being allowed to hit. It is disgusting, boring, not skilled in the slightest and very tiring after a while.
By the way, Eruption had the exact same counterplay. "JuST WAiT iT OUt" and it is (will change soon) pretty much the most hated perk on the survivors' side. Also, if waiting wasn't a big deal why would 25 seconds of Incapacitated be a problem, then? It is boring, non-interactive and wastes time that you don't have. Just like DH.
It doesn't even matter, if DH is strong or not. What actually matters is that killers will always have to counter it because if they don't, they will need 3 hits per chase, which is obviously something that 90% of the killer roster simply can't handle. Mind you BHVR stated they balance around 45 seconds chases. A survivor with 3 health states will easily exceed those 45 seconds.
It is especially punishing for newer players as well. How do you explain to a new player, that they will always need to wait for the survivor to use it before being allowed to swing? I was in that situation before. A friend of mine, who at the time was fairly new DBD played one of his first games as killer. 3 survivors had DH. I could see that these people weren't a professional comp squad and I probably would wipe the floor with them but my friend, who was happy to get a hit after 40s of chase also had to account for DH. Of course he failed to do that. He would have lost the game anyway but going out of it with only 2 hooks because three survivors would simply waste extra time by pressing "E" adds insult to injury.
Isn't this the whole reason why some things don't get the buffs they desperately need to compete with good players? Because then newer players would have a horrible time going against them? It's not only a matter of balancing, it's a matter of quality of life at this point. This has gone on long enough. It's time to put an end to this misery.
To the people, who argue that DH isn't even that good and that the killer will simply wait it out every time; Why is DH still in every game, then? If you can't get value out of it, then just use a different perk already! Nerfing the perk to obscurity wouldn't affect you anyway and it might be the only chance for this meta to ever truly change. Don't just nerf it. Nuke it! Let it burn in hell!
It is unhealthy for the reasons I listed above and it shouldn't go on any longer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362198#Comment_3362198
Even if you were to take nightlight's stats (which are unreliable at best), the perk's overall usage is still FAR below what is was prior to the patch.
You're right. That doesn't mean it's not the most used perk anymore though.
In my matches there are at least 2 DHs still. Anything below that is a very rare and very welcome occurence.
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Peanits asked for more DH posts, so he gets more DH posts. Anything for our friends at BHVR.
DH is a bit like the final boss in many old school video games. You kill it once (6.1.0) and it comes back to reveal its true form (current DH) and haunt you until you finally unlock your true power (discussions for the devs) to erase it from the face of the earth (future DH nerf / rework).
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@Utilitarian_Belt said:
I haven't had any problems with Dead Hard for a long time. I don't think 'fixing' it needs to be a priority right now.
That's good for you. I really mean that.
Many others have not been so lucky.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
you haven't been doin this for 6 years ,old dh was just press E for i frames and a good amount of distance,,you couldn't w8 it out,you couldn't really play around it ,,The perk while being the most picked exhaustion perk atm is at its best and healthiest it has ever been,,,there's some counterplay ,more in some cases and less with other cases but it's there,,,I hope they never touch the perk ever again,,,nerf it and it becomes useless buff it and it moves back to the old days,,
The supposed counter play has never changed. It has always been "wait it out". I never said it worked though. Nurse has been at her best and healthiest she's ever been up to the nerf as well. Did that make her any less hated, overpowered and problematic? The devs will need to get rid of this perk one way or another. It's overused and reflects on how effective that whole meta shake up really was. They got rid of the most used killer perks, so why should DH get a free pass? Their goal was to make it less prevalent. That didn't really happen. DH is still the most used perk in the game.
Also, please read that last section of my post again. You don't need to look far to see that there have been way more arguments on why DH needs another nerf, one that will kill it this time, or a rework. If you do have trouble finding one though:
@Xernoton said:
It took 6 years for this perk to finally get a nerf with the big meta shake up in patch 6.1.0. That patch pushed Ruin and Pop out of the meta as well as some other perks. BHVR nuked Ruin and Pop so hard they're arguable pretty weak right now. Yes, you can get value out of them but both are too weak to even be worth a perk slot when there are so many better alternatives, which is why killers use different perks. Not to mention you don't need to heavily adjust your gameplay to these perks.
Why does DH get a pass? It's been in the meta for 6 years. We got a rework and now the completely uncounterable DH for distance is gone. Only this didn't remove the perk from the meta at all. At first we saw countless arguments about how useless DH was, however now it's back in every game on multiple survivors. The game is still Dead by Dead Hard. The perk defines the killer experience. You (as an experienced player) will not go into a game and not play around DH.
Killers became CONDITIONED to play around a perk that they don't even know is in the game yet. You cannot tell me that this is a good design. We see countless complaints about it because the one thing that really needed to change was having to wait every single time before being allowed to hit. It is disgusting, boring, not skilled in the slightest and very tiring after a while.
By the way, Eruption had the exact same counterplay. "JuST WAiT iT OUt" and it is (will change soon) pretty much the most hated perk on the survivors' side. Also, if waiting wasn't a big deal why would 25 seconds of Incapacitated be a problem, then? It is boring, non-interactive and wastes time that you don't have. Just like DH.
It doesn't even matter, if DH is strong or not. What actually matters is that killers will always have to counter it because if they don't, they will need 3 hits per chase, which is obviously something that 90% of the killer roster simply can't handle. Mind you BHVR stated they balance around 45 seconds chases. A survivor with 3 health states will easily exceed those 45 seconds.
It is especially punishing for newer players as well. How do you explain to a new player, that they will always need to wait for the survivor to use it before being allowed to swing? I was in that situation before. A friend of mine, who at the time was fairly new DBD played one of his first games as killer. 3 survivors had DH. I could see that these people weren't a professional comp squad and I probably would wipe the floor with them but my friend, who was happy to get a hit after 40s of chase also had to account for DH. Of course he failed to do that. He would have lost the game anyway but going out of it with only 2 hooks because three survivors would simply waste extra time by pressing "E" adds insult to injury.
Isn't this the whole reason why some things don't get the buffs they desperately need to compete with good players? Because then newer players would have a horrible time going against them? It's not only a matter of balancing, it's a matter of quality of life at this point. This has gone on long enough. It's time to put an end to this misery.
To the people, who argue that DH isn't even that good and that the killer will simply wait it out every time; Why is DH still in every game, then? If you can't get value out of it, then just use a different perk already! Nerfing the perk to obscurity wouldn't affect you anyway and it might be the only chance for this meta to ever truly change. Don't just nerf it. Nuke it! Let it burn in hell!
It is unhealthy for the reasons I listed above and it shouldn't go on any longer.
This contains more than enough information and arguments for another 20+ discussions.
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DH for distance does not need to make a return. It was braindead, unfair and incredibly busted. They should rework DH to do something else entirely.
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I pretty much only got Gas Heaven and Coal Tower. I'm fine with either but after a while of only getting one of these it gets really repetetive.
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Maybe it's the fact that she underperforms in every way. A very weak and boring power that consists of (possibly) the weakest chase we've seen so far, a stealth that is completely useless because survivors know you are there anyway and a tracking ability she has no way of capitalizing from due to her lack of mobility. In short her power is blatantly bad and no amount of buffs will correct that. The kit just doesn't work.
Her visual design is a huge disappointment and doesn't fit her power. A stealth killer should not wear a shiny mask and some weird kind of mercenary attire. Her animations look weird an unpolished.
Her lore is completely overloaded and that makes half of it absolutely redundant. Taker her ambition and that whole manga thing. It doesn't have any effect on this killer, so why is it there in the first place? You coulf scratch half her lore and focus on the remaining traids to make her a more believable, appealing character.
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Aight. Good thing there are more balanced killers like Nurse and Blight.
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@Peanits said:
I'm not going to try and convince you that one system is better than the other. That's ultimately up to you to decide, nobody can tell you how you feel.
HOWEVER, I will fact check those key points.
- The softcap is not easy to hit. We've stated many times that the distribution of players across MMR looks like a bell curve. There's very few people on the extreme low end, a lot near and around the middle, and then very few people on the extreme high end. There aren't many people at or above the softcap. Many people will claim to be there, but this is almost always incorrect. By comparison, it was much easier for people of all skill levels to hit rank 1 under the old system so long as they played enough each month.
- This isn't really the case. The matchmaker starts off very specific and gradually broadens its range the longer you wait for a match. The overwhelming majority of the time you'll be paired against people within a few points of your own rating. Folks who are at one of the extreme ends of the spectrum and playing during off-peak times for their region may have more variance between matches, but there's only so much a matchmaker can do (it can only work with what its got).
- Even if this is the case, the old system did not have any separation between Killers, your rank was shared between all Killers. I would hesitate to say that having some separation is worse than none at all.
- The system exists in a void. You never see it. You aren't rewarded for increasing it. You aren't punished for losing it. It is solely a hidden number to help find you opponents that are similarly skilled. If you decide to play more competitively to increase a number that you'll never see, that's totally fine and you can do so, but the system certainly is not encouraging it anymore than the old system which was actually shown to your before and after every match.
Again, not going to convince you that you should like one more than the other. Everyone wants something different out of matchmaking and nobody's really wrong.
Thank you for clarifying that first point. Would it be possible to provide some actual numbers? I feel like that might help us understand just how broad this middle section really is.
I think what most of the complaints about SBMM really come down to is that our MMR (at least as far as we know) is only based on kills / escapes and not how many hooks we got or how good we did in chase. This can lead to some extrem cases where killers that go for many hooks are somewhat low in their MMR and killers that tunnel / camp more are higher up, when in comparison the first one might play better than the second. Such an analogy exists for survivors too of course.
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You misspelled "Hillbilly".
Jokes aside. Pretty much one third of all killers could use an addon pass. Pyramid Head's, Deathslinger's, Twins', Spirit's, Michael Myer's and Freddy's addons should be looked at as well.
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That is an interesting idea. I agree that the extremes on both sides should be toned down. For example a killer should not be able to hold a 3 gen for 40+ minutes because their perks regress the gen every time a survivor made a bit of progress. Also survivors should not be able to get out of 4+ bad situations back to back with their perks.
I'm not exactly sure how the balancing would work though because the balance we have right now is largely achieved through perks.
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There are situations where DH requires very little skill (predictable killer powers) but it isn't a complete no brainer like it used to. Against M1s it does take skill.
Still doesn't change the fact that it should be nerfed or reworked to do something different.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361441#Comment_3361441
No it isn’t stronger. With Boil Over now you wiggle as much as you did without Boil Over prior to the recent wiggle change. Regardless of hitting skill checks. Boil Over now basically equals the older form of wiggling, but like weaker since it isn’t ‘stacking’ with the older form of wiggling anymore
Great skill checks are 120% of the normal wiggle strength and this stacks with Boil Over. I believe I read somewhere that Boil Over works mulitplicative (correct me, if I'm wrong) so the actual wiggle strength of a great skill check should be 1.2 x 1.8 = 2.16 the normal wiggle strength. If it is additive that makes it 1.2 + 0.8 = 2.0 the normal wiggle strength.
Before the change you would achieve a maximum of 1.0 x 1.8 = 1.8 / 1.0 + 0.8 = 1.8 times normal wiggle strength. That means Boil Over did get stronger, when hitting great skill checks.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361310#Comment_3361310
Boil Over was recently shadow nerfed when the devs changed the wiggle mechanic. Like now survivors can’t really wiggle in a way that affects killer movement without Boil Over. With Boil Over, survivors wiggle about as much as they did prior to the ‘new’ wiggle mechanic.
Wait, how is that a nerf to Boil Over, though? Boil Over's effect is even stronger now than before as long as you hit some great skill checks. And that really isn't too hard.
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I don't understand why BHVR thought this was an appealing / interesting / fun killer. I will not argue about whether or not the trailer imlicated different things because it doesn't really matter. What matter is the killer they actually designed.
This is the first time that I think BHVR's visual design team really missed the mark. Her power indicates that she should be some kind of stealth killer. Her appearane however does not support that. She looks like a mercenary not an assassin. A huge claw, a glittering mask, a glowing eye that seems to serve no purpose and an outfit that is in now way stealthy. Her power and her visual design don't match. That is an issue. Next, she is just a regular woman with a claw. That would be fine, if she was some kind of assassin lurking in the shadows and strike when the time has come. That is not the case though and this makes her pretty non threatening.
Her power itself has no real skill expression or tactical component. Especially after the buffs she received it is clear that you are meant to place drones while in chase (otherwise why would they reduce the activation time?) and not set them up for later (even claw trapped survivors can deactivate them, after all). Her power is still no threat to injured survivors and incentivises Shift + W plays for the survivor. I believe they didn't think about the stealth part too much. What reason could you possibly have to become undectable in an area, when the survivor already knows you are there? Setting up a drone and then sneaking up on a survivor later will not work because the survivor will hear her terror radius as she comes near. Hiding inside the drones radius is useless as well because there is no way the survivors won't see that drone. The tracking part is pretty awful as well. She cannot use this information. Doctor has the ability to track survivors near him. Skull Merchant on the other hand will more often find survivors that are far away from her. With her lack of mobility she can't make her way across the map to capitalise on it. If she does, that results in a lot of wasted time. She does so much and all of it is bad. This is way worse than the Demogorgon who is jack of all trades. His power does at least work good enough to be a threat. SM on the other hand does a great many things without achieving anything.
Lastly her animations. Again, I feel like they really dropped the ball there. Knight's animations looked pretty cool at least. Her animations are boring in comparison. The weapon animations are very simplistic, her walking animation looks awkward (Seriously, who moves like that?) and her mori is by faaaar the worst one yet.
This really is a perfect example of 'less is more'. Scratch half of her lore and power and focus what remains. This could be an interesting killer, if it didn't feel like half of her power and lore are so redundant.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361171#Comment_3361171
...Pig's been buffed multiple times and is in a pretty good spot right now, though?
I agree. But some slight buffs to her crouch wouldn't hurt.
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They fixed that bug. You should be able to play them now.
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@Silasy said:
I would like to see a Billy change but sadly BHVR already deleted him from the game
Don't give up hope. One day Spacebilly will come back. He always does.
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@Blueberry said:
Matchmaking is bad because the game is too unbalanced to have good matchmaking. That would be a nightmare. The bad matchmaking covers up some of these balance issues.
You’d also have way, way longer queue times and go against many of the same people over and over.
I feel like that last part is happening already. I do see some people quite frequently (no idea why, though).
I once had a David who I got matched with 6 times in a row. 6! Times! After the second time I added him as a friend and we were just goofing around from that point onward. I really don't know how something like this is even possible but it happened.
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The only thing you can do is keep playing and losing. Try to focus on something other than 'winning' in your games. For example, get a flashlight save, loop the killer for a while or try to improve against certain killers when you play survivor and try to mindgame strong tiles, learn a new killer, try something new with your main, run a meme build and try to make it work when you play killer.
You will lose a lot of games but eventually your MMR will adjust and your games should be a bit more chill. Something like that happens to me every few months to the extend where I just load into matches with the purpose of losing while still having fun. It's not ideal and I think MMR could work better but I feel like it's not as bad as it used to shortly after they introduced SBMM.
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Did I miss something? As far as I know Boil Over still adds bonus progression when the killer drops off a ledge. Also Boil Over is still a pretty decent perk. You will not wiggle out just for bringing Boil Over but you will definitely make it harder to hook you. Especially on some indoor maps the stronger wiggles make it more difficult to get through doorways. You are not supposed to wiggle out as someone else pointed out. The wiggle progression was added so that killers wouldn't carry you halfway across the map but instead hook you when they get the chance.
Iron Grasp is not a problem in any way. It's only purpose is to make it easier to hook survivors and that's exactly what it does.
If you could reliably wiggle out, that would be a huge problem. A killer can't chase you twice for a hook stage. How fast do you think the killer is in ending chases or even catching up to a survivor after they got stunned?
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It's still not working properly. Though I did get adept Trapper and Pig a few days ago. So it's not impossible.
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I don't think it's cancelled but I believe we'll have to wait another 5-6 months. The Skull Merchant is due in a few days and then the next chapter will be the anniversary. I hope we'll get an update on the Twins soon.
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Should be Twins. They confirmed Twins would be reworked over a year ago. I hope they won't try something like Ghostface / Legion on them, though. Twins probably need more excessive reworks.
After that, I hope they'll have a look at some of their older killers. Freddy, Myers, Billy, Doctor, Trapper and Clown come to mind. Not all of them need huge reworks but some small buffs or changes here and there would go a long way.
Sadako is a case for herself. The condemned play style is pretty viable and we don't really know, if it's an exploit. Some words from the devs would be nice. As well as some buffs to her chase in case that is an exploit.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
Yea, I do this as killer and I apreciate it when a killer does it when I am survivor. Nothing annoys me more than a jungle gym obstructing the view...
You don't like huge walls blocking the view or survivors / killers glitching through them? Shocking.
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@Phantom_ said:
How about we cross that bridge when and IF we ever get to it? It's like this community is trying to win the oscar for best actor in a drama 😅.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359444#Comment_3359444
I hope they never touch Shadowborn, or we'll never see Billy mains ever again 🥹 I've only seen them and Blights run it... and one very peculiar Ghostface 🤨
Honestly, I do hope they'll look at Shadowborn. I'm completely addicted to it, so take what I say with a grain of salt but Shadowborn is only a bandaid to a problem many killers and players have. The killers' FOV is pretty bad. I would love to see a FOV slider as a quality of life update. It probably wouldn't make that much of a difference in terms of balancing anyway. But it would allow me (and others too) to play Billy with 4 perks instead of 3.
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It has gotten a lot better. I know it's a meme but genuinely I think they did a pretty good job so far, when it comes to dealing with the cheater problem.
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@Mat_Sella said:
Does no one remember when Billy would literally just spin around maps in circles until he won the game by catching someone in 10 seconds?
There is a legitimate reason as to why Overheat exists beyond just a limitation to camping with a revved Chainsaw.
Maybe the reason no one remembers that is because that didn't happen. Catching someone in 10 seconds? Maybe with insta saw addons and it's ok that these were nerfed. But overheat doesn't prevent the Hillbilly from 'spinning around maps in circles'. Not at all.
I recently broke my personal record for the longest uninterrupted chainsaw run without addons. It was glorious. Took 6 minutes and 43 seconds and ended with an Ace as a road block. You can go on long after you reached overheat. That doesn't matter. Overheat is only a hinderence when going for curves.
Also, by the time you downed, picked up, carried and hooked a survivor the overheat will have cooled down considerably.
For your information, according to the devs overheat was added as a countermeasure for camping. Not to limit his strength in other ways.
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@Huge_Bush said:
All I know is there better be a shirtless Trapper played by Henry Cavill.
Hooked on You Trapper cosplay, when?
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I think next is gonna be Overcharge or CoB, possibly both. Both incentivise 3 gen camping. That's incredibly boring to play and play against. I wouldn't be sad to see these 2 perks out of the meta. Kicking gens instead of chasing is not particularly fun for me.
Maybe this is necessary though. Maybe gen regression perks really need to be gutted so hard that nobody will run them anymore. That would at least show what a monstrosity the devs have created when it comes to gen speed modifiers. The game can take 60 minutes or 4 minutes depending on what perks, items and addons are in the match. That's ridiculous.
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@icedrake402 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359968#Comment_3359968
As for what sort of horror theme she was meant to represent, I'd guess something like Hostel or Antebellum. Bored rich girl who stalks and kills people to flaunt her power over them and get some kind of thrill in her jaded soul, representing the age-old theme in horror of the powerful preying on the weak because they can. But even that doesn't come across well, it's too muddied up with superfluous stuff like the manga.
Thanks for pointing that out. Even from her lore I did not get that feeling of horror. There are just too many redundent things in her lore too distract from what could potentially make for an interesting character.
Imagine if they had leaned more into her ambitiousness and made her always seek further improvement when it came to killing people, losing her humanity in the process and gradually turning herself into a weapon. That'd be way more interesting than her father drawing manga imo.
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I remember a game (about a year ago) when I was playing Huntress against a very chill SWF. They were pretty good but overall the game was very back and forth. That was until I got lucky and came close enough to grab Feng. I froze for about 5 seconds with my hand outstretched to reach for her. She saw that, nodded, and then slow vaulted back to level the playing grounds again. I couldn't kill her after that but it was one of those special moments I'll never forget.
Another match that I absolutely loved was against 4 survivors that had the names of Susie, Frank, Julie and Joey (all Legion members). They began chasing me instead. I was terrified.
A Doctor match I had against 4 different versions of Bunny Fengs just a few months ago. We were on Mother's Dwelling and I had a bit of trouble keeping up with the survivors' efficiency. They were pretty good in chase too but Zanshin Tactics really helped me out. When all gens were done I chased one Feng and she ran me back to main building.... Where they had prepared a surprise for me. 3 of them were on the table in the center and the other Feng jumped down to join them. As did I. We kept fooling around for a bit, farming some blood points and them I let them escape via slug race. Unfortunately one of them had to be disqualified for cheating (Tenacity). These guys were very wholesome in chat as well.
Probably my favorite match of all time was as Billy on Grimm Pantry. I tried to do the Spacebilly spot on main building and after a few tries I got the hang of it. I managed to jump so high that the survivors couldn't see me and luckily landed right next to a gen they were working on. Several times. They were scared of the flying chainsaw lunatic and I had a lot of fun flying around and landing right next to them (totally planned btw, definitely not lucky at all). In the end I managed to leave the map and waited for them outside of the exit gates. They gave me a lightshow with their flashlights as thanks and we exchanged some nice word in end game chat.
My favorite survivor game was against a Spirit. She didn't pay attention in the lobby and didn't realise that there was something off about the Jame Sunderland in her game. Until she found me. I greeted her as the great Jeryl by spinning with my flashlight and nodding at her. She followed me the whole game, completely mesmerized by the beauty right before her eyes. Needless to say I got rancore moried. 😂
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359812#Comment_3359812
This explained something to me that literally made me go 'Oooohhhh....' regarding DH and killer perspective. Thank you, Xern.
Is this situation common? That literally painted a picture for me lol.
It depends on what killer you play and how good you do in a match of course. But it isn't uncommon. For me something like this happens in about 7/10 matches. I don't lose every single one of these matches but it puts me in quite a bad spot and often makes what should be a rather close game an easy 4 people escape.
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Call it a hivemind, if you will. The criticism is still 100% valid. The Skull Merchant is a killer that disappoints in absolutely every way. Of course BHVR will get a ton of negative feedback about the chapter.
Most people despise her visuals. It's subjective as you said, so you can't really fault anyone for being unhappy about that. I think she looks weird. She has nothing that's even remotely off putting about her. That giant claw looks goofy on a regular woman wearing, what I can only assume is mercenary attire. How can she even walk around like that? Why does her mask have to be made of diamonds? What kind of horror theme does this represent? The thing about Wesker is, that you at least would know better than to fight him in 1v1 combat. I can't really say the same about SM. More important than her visual design is her power though. And it's the worst that they introduced so far. A killer power that is neither fun to use, nor fun to play against for most people. It's not particularly fun to set up drones that do absolutely nothing for you for the most part, trying to utilise a stealth that wouldn't even work, if survivors didn't know you were right next to them, before securing a 3 gen and defending it until the game shuts down. Neither is playing against 3 gen warriors.
The chapter overall is bad because the selling point of this chapter is the Skull Merchant. You get the new maps without the chapter. The survivors are literally just reskins of existing characters. You might get them for their perks but most people would rather buy them with shards. The chapter itself only consists of SM, the 2 new survivors and their perks. Everything else is just thrown into the same patch.
Why would I pay good money on something like that? I will not play the killer. I will not play the survivors. I don't want their perks.
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I've been having a less enjoyable time with the game recently. I switched to survivor, back to killer, back to survivor, back to killer again and nothing changed. My matches were mostly me being tunneled as a survivor or me getting stomped as a (non-tunneling) killer.
That was until yesterday when I switched to playing Oni. I've never really liked playing him before but for some reason now I find it incredibly fun to run around the map and have some less sweaty matches because I actually play a killer strong enough to not get screwed immediately.
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@Gamall said:
Reward killers for playing GOOD mean kicking gens as brainless bots who refuse to chase, ok.
Besides, if it takes you two minutes to chase a survivor who has used dh correctly, you deserve no further response
I somewhat agree. But there is a real problem with the current meta gen regression perks by design.
The only genuinely good regression perks left, that don't incentivise gen kicking above all else are Pain Res and Eruption. If the killer can't get a down, Eruption will do nothing. It's bad but not as bad as CoB, Overcharge. Nerfing Eruption will only leave us with Pain Res in that regard. And Pain Res ist getting a shadow nerf in the next patch as well because its synergy with DMS will weaken significantly. I can't blame people for playing 3 gen warriors, when this is the best they can do and it's so heavily incentivised.
No chase should ever take 2 minutes, agreed. But on some maps a killer is happy, if they can end a chase in a bit over 1 minute. Now add DH into the equation and the killer will have to drop chase. Most killers could probably recover from this, if they have strong builds and addons but the next survivor they chase is likely to have DH as well, which overall leads to killers being forced to overcommit to chases. Leave the chase and the next time you find that survivor, they'll be fully healed and have DH again. Don't leave the chase and lose your entire pressure for 1 down. It's a lose-lose situation because someone pressed their E key at the correct time.
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It's good that survivors have fun using a perk. That's what a game should be after all. Fun.
However, DH is a problem. It is incredibly overused, unbalanced, inconsistent (problem with balancing again) and its counterplay is the least interactive, least fun thing you could imagine. DBD is a very fast paced game. We fight tooth and nail for half a metre of distance because that could make the difference between win and loss. Waiting behind a survivor and seeing them perform some kind of dance, that I'm sure would earn them standing ovations somewhere else, is not the experience a killer should have in this game. Especially not in nearly every chase.
It should do something else entirely. Maybe the devs can come up with something that's not as ridiculous as tanking a third hit and yet still fun to use. But after 6 years this perk should finally be dethroned as the most used perk.
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@patadanaboca007 said:
So, I was just chilling playing some dbd using my main build (windows of opportunity, lithe, adrenaline, prove thyself), but I got bored and changed it to a healing build (empathy, botany knowledge, built to last, desperate measures), what happened? I played against a Plague using pentimento and thanatophobia...After that match I changed the build again to a chase focused build (dead hard, windows of opportunity, open handed, resilience) with a purple flashlight, what happened? I played against a hit and run Legion that barely chased anyone...
I might be cursed or something
Maybe it's a curse. But it might be something even more sinister.
I want you to get off your PC and make your way downstairs. Be careful but keep going. Now open the door to your basement and slowly make your way down. Stay hidden and don't turn on the lights, don't even breath. Do you hear breathing? Do you hear weird noises? That's right, it's a basement Bubba. He's here to sabotage your matches!
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Both perks are horrible. Both shouldn't stay like this.
DH needs a complete rework from the ground up or a nerf that makes it useless. It has been 6 years. That should be more than enough of this perk ruling DBD.
Eruption would be fine if it would only stop a survivor from working on a gen imo.
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Flashlights are annoying, I agree. But toxic?
The only thing that's more than annoying about flashlights is what people can do with on one map in particular (not saying which one as I don't want to ever run into people using that against me again). I encountered this twice and it was absolutely disgusting. They sent me there with 4 flashlights and I already knew what they were up to before getting my first down. I stopped playing for the win when I saw that and instead tried to slug all of them. Needless to say I lost and was more than relieved when it was finally over.
I usually run lightborn when I can't be bothered to play around flashlights. You can try that.
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@CheesyGuy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358327#Comment_3358327
My point is not even about winning or losing. I just wanted to play different maps. I know BHVR has an update for that but even that update questions me in some content which worries me
Yeah, I get that as well. It's not fun when you get the same map 5 times in a row. This ruined RPD for me. For a few days I got sent there so often that I just don't want to go there ever again.
I read somewhere that this update BHVR announced was only to protect you from map offerings. So potentially you could still get the same map 5 times in a row even after this update.
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I'm very sorry to say this but the only thing you can do is to endure. Your MMR will tank and eventually you will have better matches again. This happens to me sometimes too. Usually it takes me a few days of losing pretty much every match before my matches are back to normal again. One thing you can do to make it sting a bit less is to unequip all forms of slowdown and instead focus purely on the chase. Sometimes you can learn a few things from opponents that outclass you so heavily.
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Billy's addons were much better before the nerf. Now a majority of his addons has no use. The Big Buckle is a picture perfect example of an addon that the devs never thought about and just threw in there. Even his good addons are a bit undertuned, mainly because his base kit is heavily map dependent. There are maps where you can play Billy and have a good time but the more maps get added and the more the older maps get reworks his power weakens. In order to perform well with the Hillbilly you have to be on a way higher level than pretty much any other killer. It's not enough to be good. You need to be cracked. At this point I doubt it's enough to simply buff him. He has too many problems between maps, his addons, his difficulty and quality of life. To fix Billy they'd need to heavily rework his kit and addons.
Deathslinger doesn't feel great to play either. He has a good 1v1 but his 1v4 is abismal. His chase potential is quite high but seeing how many things you can use to not go down against him, he's really not as strong as you might think. Put some kind of obstacle between him and yourself and you're almost guaranteed to get off. On top of that his time management is insanely bad. A 4.4 m/s killer that has to reload after every use of his power. That's worse than Huntress and Trickster.
Freddy is another example of a killer that got completey annihilated. His base power is incredibly weak even disregarding the fact that it only works on sleeping survivors, his teleport deactivates in end game and his addons are some of the worst in the entire game. He has maybe 3-4 addons that could potentially give him some value. His iridescent Paintbrush could be implemented in his base kit and he'd still be incredibly weak. This is all on top of the fact that he's quite... Boring. His chase is a washed down version of Clown's, his teleport is weaker than any other teleport in the game and his dream world is not really a threat but an inconvenience at best.
I think Billy and Freddy need excessive reworks. For slinger I'd like to see his reload speed and his chain durability increased as well as his terror radius reduced again and some of his addons buffed.
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There have definitely a lot of map offerings the past few weeks. At least in my games. I even saw some survivors use Sacrificial Wards because they didn't want to get sent to a map again. The worst part is when you get sent to a map that pretty much counters your entire power as a killer. Or Garden of Misery... For any killer. Scratch that. I don't even want to go there as a survivor.
I would be fine, if you got like maybe 1 map offerings every 10 bloodwebs but it's mulitple in almost every bloodweb I see.
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@Laurie268 said:
As long as there are antiloop killers that can fake their attack (Pyramid head and Nemesis) or zone you (Artist and Knight), deadhard is balanced. Without it you either throw the pallet and go down against them or don’t throw it and still go down which is bs too
Sure. Because everyone falls for the killer faking their power. It's incredibly easy to DH perfectly against most killers when they use their power. Because every killer has either an audible clue, a visual clue or a both for when they actually use their power.
You can loop most anti-loop killers pretty easy (not Knight and Artist though, Shift + W is all you have against them). You just need to actually play the game and react to things instead of turning off your brain and running circles around an object.
Even if DH was your only option to play against these killers, it should still be reworked / gutted. Because then we could look at the actual issues with data that isn't corrupted by DH.
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Billy without Shadowborn. - Yes, I am hopelessly addicted.
Doctor without Zanshin Tactics. - Might not be the obvious choice but it's sooo good.
Myers without Lethal Pursuer. - Again, hopelessly addicted.
Clown without STBFL - Why settle for laughing at survivors every 30 seconds, when you can laugh at them every 20 seconds?