Xernoton
Xernoton
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- Xernoton
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I wish they'd skip just one chapter to actually focus their resources on older killers. Some only need small changes. Others need complete reworks. Damn, I'd rather pay for that than another killer I'll never play.
Billy, Freddy and Twins are just sad in their current, miserable states.
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@coldestwinter123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357083#Comment_3357083
IF there would be even one case of someone getting "banned" from the report function for being a "dick" that would be a travesty.
There is a guy named hookcamplol who literally only does the things i stated prior 😂 and pretty sure he is a fog whisperer.
You are missing the plot tho.
Going out of your way to be a jerk however is not really 'playing the game'. It's just that: being a jerk.😂 Do you recognize that thats a legitimate way to engage with the game? Your characterization of said actions are subjective one sided opinion and not recognized by the game as a category?
Regardless of that, there are plenty of people who play nice who get tbagged trolled and made fun of by killers and survivors, yet they still continue to play nice and dont say a word about it ? Your explanation and prefacing that "i play with out addons" "i play with out perks" " i play nice" is really just a roundabout way of saying "i expect them to do the same" you can say it as many times as you want that you are not doing so, but your actions are clearly implying the opposite. There are both killers and survivors who get bad mannered forever and say not a word....because whether the people they play against are nice or dicks don't change how they play,and they say nothing about it cause thats what they want to do and they feel no emotion or frustration either way.
what i gave you... is a real solution. Because clearly it bothers you enough to post about it(its good keep posting,engagement is good) Just try to play normally, you dont even have to go out of your way to be extra dick about it, but you are gonna win more and feel less frustration. You cant affect what your opponents responses are but you can change the framing of your own view so that it doesn't bother you.
it can be that its mild projection, but the ONLY time i care about tbaging at the gate is when i clearly went easy on them because i noticed someone being fairly new .
How is harassment in end game chat 'a legitimate way to engage with the game'? Telling people to end themselves and wishing their families the most unspeakable things goes too far. In any set up. Writing whole essays about how bad you are in a video game does too as it isn't part of said video game. This is not acceptable behaviour.
The teabagging part was still in the game, so I guess you could say it's somewhat subjective how you take it but that's about it. The game was over anyway, teabagging in the exit game was douchey at best. That part I can overlook. But some players seem to have real problems getting this upset in a video game, when they won. Not just that, I don't even know what I did to upset them so terribly.
I can deal with this stuff for the most part. Yeah, I get annoyed and I'm not happy about these occurencese. But there are people that have a harder time dealing with this. Imagine having a bad day, playing the game for an hour and seeing death threats and worse. Eventually these things do affect a person's mental health.
I am of the opinion that this game should be fun above all else. But I take it these people had a horrible time in the match, because why else would they hang around and act so atrocious? That's why I asked: What do they want me to do?
There needs to be some way to stop this vicious cycle of getting treated like this until you snap and decide to return the favor to players, that have absolutely nothing to do with this. Because eventually they'll end up just as resentful. We shouldn't hate each other's guts over a video game.
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@Saiph said:
Contrary to killers, who have 10+ good regression perks, survivors don't have the luxury of choice, there are only 3-4 exhaustion perks that are good. So one would expect the pick rate of any exhaustion perk to be naturally high (around 25%) just because of lack of competition.
Maybe BHVR should increase competition to Dead Hard by introducing new OP perks and Dead Hard's pickrate will magically decrease. Is that what you want?
Comparing DH and Eruption is silly as one perk requires high skill to use while the other requires exactly zero.
Uhm... Sure. Killers have so many great regression perks. Just look at Rui-- ehr Pop-- ehr Huntress Lulla-- Well, maybe not that many.
The most viable options left in terms of slowdown are Pain Res + DMS and CoB. Everything else isn't comparable.
DH should be nerfed again. BHVR tried to get it out of the meta and they failed spectacularly. It's still the most used perk in the game. It doesn't matter that DH is an exhaustion perk. I remember people crying about how DH was unusable and how everyone would run SB instead. That lasted for about 1-2 weeks. Then most switched back to DH not because it's an exhaustion perk but because it's still insanely strong.
Nurse wasn't any less of a problem just becaus she's hard. The same goes for DH. Dead Hard is too strong, period. No amount of "But there are no alternatives and it's hard to use." will negate that. Half the killers have very skripted powers, so using DH against them is pretty much a guaranteed third health state.
Rewarding skillful plays should go for both sides. A killer mindgaming a survivor at a safe structure to get into a position where they can barely get the hit or outplaying them with their power resulting into DH is not rewarding. It's the exact opposite.
Also, you might want to reconsider stating that Eruption does not take any skill. That is pretty much equivalent to calling every survivor player a potato. You still need to actually get the down to activate it after all.
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Not exactly. I don't expect anyone to limit themselves in the way I do. Everyone should play the game how they see fit, of course. Going out of your way to be a jerk however is not really 'playing the game'. It's just that: being a jerk. And technically they are obligated to follow the rules of this game. There is a report section for cases like these specifically, so the devs don't consider this as just 'playing the game' as well.
I don't really see the point of actively trying to be a dick when the game is already over. Or disconnecting for that matter. I get being salty or whatever but the things I saw today were pretty extreme.
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@DwightDwigt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356326#Comment_3356326
Agreed.
As the game is currently constructed, tunneling will always be an option for Killers.
Perhaps instead of attempting to punish Killers for tunneling, it might be more effective to incentivize Killers to NOT tunnel.
For example, (basekit effect) after a Killer first hooks a Survivor, if the next Survivor hooked is a different one, the gen with the most progress is blocked for 10, 15, 20 seconds, or something like that.
If the Killer hooks the same Survivor twice in a row, this effect is deactivated for the remainder of the trial.
Perhaps add basekit 5-second DS.
Re-add BBQ & Chili bloodpoint multiplier. (I understand that items in the bloodweb are cheaper, but there are only upsides to keeping the multiplier.) It was perfectly designed to incentivize Killers to NOT tunnel. The Killer could see his next potential target across the map and potentially gain more bloodpoints by hooking a different Survivor. Plus, there was the satisfaction of seeing a stack for each unique survivor hooked.
In similar fashion,
Re-buff Pop Goes the Weasel to 25% of total gen progression (instead of current progression). It was perfectly designed to incentivize Killers to NOT camp. The Killer could do substantial targeted gen regression, but only by leaving the hook to kick the gen.
I agree with all of this except the part about BBQ. The BP economy in this game is already.... Pretty awful.
Maybe it's just me but I don't like the idea of everyone running the strongest items, addons and offerings all the time. And we already have that. Bringing back the bonus BP BBQ used to have would only make that worse. Apart from that, what do I do with so many BP? I can unlock perks quicker and grind prestige but in the end the only thing I gain is a pretty number and stacks of thousands of addons I will never be able to use.
Instead, I would like to see more perks (BBQ included) getting stronger the more unique hooks the killer has. You could add an additional lingering effect of 1 second per survivor hooked to BBQ or something similar.
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I won't say killer is unplayable because objectively that'd be false but I don't remember ever getting stomped so hard and so frequently for weeks. I used to completely refuse to run any gen regression because I have more fun going for an aggressive build to help me get to the next chase as soon as possible but now I started running Pain Res nearly every game because I'm done with this.
For me personally, killer is the second hardest it has been in 2 years. The only time when it was worse for me was right after the hit validation change in 2021, mainly because that felt more awful than getting stomped. The amount of items and offerings I see in an average game is ridiculous. Yes, it is 3+ medkits and toolboxes every game and yes, they are in the best rarities stacked with addons that make you question your sanity. Before you ask, yes, I also see my fair share of offerings to go to Garden of Misery, Ormond, Badham, Eyrie etc.
It's so easy to play weak killers right now. You get sent to Garden of Misery begin a chase only for them to run the infinite. You drop chase and go for the next only to see them do the exact same thing. It's so easy to win a game in 4 and a half minutes because the gens are done by that time. It's so easy to deal with DH in every chase again and down survivors with 3 health states quick enough to actually be able to compete.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Chat wheel? Why not. Show perks? If they can make it useful instead of just showing icons? Can be helpful or invoke salt by perk choice.
Im not really a fan of tools to show exact survivor locations or what they pointed at. Reminds me of the arrows used to highlight the hunter in deathgarden. Could be broken info.
I'd be careful with adding stuff "because swf has it". There are groups using a clockwise system to emulate a map and tell each other of certain locations, does that mean survivors need basekit bond and map that shows found objects ( pallets, totems gens etc)? Its a slippery slope of "not enough" when dealing with the gap between game and third party advantages.
Very true.
Any changes this big need to be monitored closely and adjusted accordingly. Especially considering that this only benefits one side while the other will have to deal with it. The new HUD is a good thing but before we know how much of a difference it already makes adding anything more without collecting data would lead to assumptions that X and Y need to be changed, buffed or implemented as well just because some other people have all of that anyway while ignoring how the balance of the game is affected.
I think a chat wheel is the only other thing that should be implemented to help solo queue. It allows for coordination in a way even the current HUD doesn't. My only concern about this is, that some people would probably spam some command to annoy their team mates.
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It's technically a shadow nerf to Pain Res + DMS since you can now react to the scream to stop working on a gen but I honestly like the new screams. They sound a bit more like: "Damn, there is freaking meat hook in my shoulder!" It makes the game a little bit more scary.
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Not immediately. I'll probably buy her with shards eventually (seeing as I have all characters in the game) but I'm not in a rush. I could by some cosmetics first. I don't really plan on playing her anyway.
She's boring, weak and not well thought out. Her stealth is a joke. Her tracking, which is her biggest strength is subpar, and she doesn't have any creative ways to be played. She's neither tactical or mechanically demanding and she has nothing to make her a bit nicer to play. Why would I play her, when I could play Wraith instead? Slap on a few aura perks and you have a killer that is better in every aspect and more fun.
Her perks aren't really good either. Thwack! might be pretty fun to use but it's one of these perks you use once or twice and never again.
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I think Wesker is pretty balanced. His tunneling capability is a bit overtuned but otherwise he's great.
He has good addons that do something useful without being broken and a power that is well rounded with many possible uses and still enough counterplay to not feel unfair.
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@Flawless_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356326#Comment_3356326
This is exactly where I’m getting at. If killers want to tunnel, the point is not to make it impossible to do so, but to make it a last resort tactic. So yeah you’d be able to do it if you have to, but the trade off would be eating the DS and potentially lose your momentum. It may work in some scenarios, but right now it’s too easy for killers to get free kills by simply tunneling someone out with no risk, which is why it’s so prevalent these days. Face camping for example, you can still do it but most people won’t because it’s not beneficial to do so except in very specific circumstances. I believe tunneling should be the same way.
I mostly agree. Though I think it's very dependent on the player, if they think tunneling is necessary. Some people will deem tunneling necessary right off the bat, while others will only do it, if they absolutely need to. On top of that, the earlier a killer begins to tunnel the more likely they will recover from eating a DS. If it's already a last resort (at like 2 gens with both to be completed soon and little to no pressure) eating a DS is very risky and can easily stop what little momentum the killer had. Tunneling right off the bat however will still be a rather safe move still. If you get someone out quick enough, the other survivors are pretty much screwed no matter if they were hooked before or how many resources there still are. This could then lead to some more people tunneling at 5 gens when they really wouldn't need to. That's also kind of the point I tried to make by listing these different perks. They hit harder, if the killer doesn't tunnel. So, why even risk it and then getting screwed by DS when you can't afford it?
Camping always had a reputation as being quite risky while tunneling was regarded as a safer way to play the game as killer. A buff to DS likely will not change that.
This is why I think it should be more rewarding to spread hooks and simultaneously riskier to tunnel. If spreading hooks had the potential to work better than tunneling more people would do it.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356333#Comment_3356333
"if you failed to escape the first hooked stage increase your chance to escape the second hook stage by 4% per each attempted escape. allows escaping during the second hook stage."
A luck based perk, then. So you try to unhook yourself in first stage and then have another chance in second stage? Even the 4% chance in the first stage is dumb. You don't need to do anything for it. You can just try and either get lucky or not. Making that a perk for second stage is completely unnecessary. That's what your teammates are for.
It's a gamble that shouldn't exist in the first place. Designing a perk that might or might not do anything, simply depending on luck, is not a good design. Worse yet, combine this with Slippery Meat and luck offerings and you pretty much guarantee that you will be able to unhook yourself twice, which is dumb again. Hooking is supposed to force someone off a gen to come for you. If you can do that yourself, the killer only wastes time by hooking you.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356265#Comment_3356265
a perk that allows you to try escaping from struggle phase is not the same as deliverance.
You're right. It's way stronger. Deliverance could fail, if you get hooked first. A perk that gets you off the hook in second stage however? The perk would need some requirement for being active (anything else would be bonkers) and with weaker killers already struggling to create any kind of pressure, this would incentivise hard tunneling as it would most likely prevent that survivor from activating the perk.
Survivors being able to get off the hook in stage 2 on their own means there will be more survivors on gens the entire game. That leads to shorter games and killers feeling even more helpless than they do now.
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I'm not sure simply punishing the killer for tunneling is the right move. If I were to start a match as killer, get an early hook and 2 gens are still gone after 60 seconds even a 10 seconds DS wouldn't stop me from tunneling that poor soul's ass. Yeah, it's risky but it might be the only shot I have at winning this game. No matter how much you punish tunneling, with the killer feeling like they have no other way to compete they'll still do it.
I believe making hook spreading more attractive might help with that. Right now there is no reward whatsoever for hooking multiple people. Quite the opposite actually with perks like Deliverance and soon Blood Rush as well as DH and medkits. The killer can prevent all of these things from coming back to bite them later by tunneling one survivor.
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Correction: Freddy is horrible.
Everything about him is so sad. You start with no power and due to Adrenaline being a meta perk you end the game with no power.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356104#Comment_3356104
yep. we need a perk that lets you escape from hook level 2
Oh god, please no. Deliverance is already a meta perk. A power creeped version of it is not what this game needs.
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@yauniqua said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356026#Comment_3356026
How?
They both let you negate a hit?
Both get can get you to a pallet and continue the loopz.
DH for distance is gone so at least you can't use it to get to a window anymore. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with the nerf because they didn't solve the issues around this perk. But at least it's not as easy to pull it off as it used to.
The reason why it's a step (only a step though) in the right direction is that the devs are aknowledging the problem and at least do something. If I had no hope they'd look at DH again I wouldn't have started the post.
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@yauniqua said:
The new Dead Hard is worse than the previous version.
The new one gives you another health state, so long as you aren't already in mending status.
The low skill Killer players should have just shut up, cuz the devs made DH more annoying than it originally was.
DH was disgusting in every skill level. DH for distance was the easiest and most unfair thing imaginable. New DH has higher payoff, the same awful counterplay and is prevalent in every game again. However, the nerf to DH was a step in the right direction.
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This would not really help him all that much, I'm affraid. Back revving would be a bit easier, I suppose, but the fun part of Billy and the point where his chainsaw can really be useful is when used for curves. Making it slower means the survivor has more time to react to it and either dodge out of the way or get around the next corner. Apart from that, his map mobility would weaken as well. I posted a concept for what I think could help with his problems here:
@Xernoton said:
In theory, the Hillbilly has everything a killer could ask for. Map mobility and a power with a high skill ceiling, that allows him to end chases quickly and can be used in creative ways. The issues lie in his inability to play around certain loop shapes (mostly squares and circles) with his power, many random objects blocking his way on most maps making it much harder to traverse them, windows and vaults, hitboxes and his addons.
I have thought about some ways to make him a bit nicer to play and also to compensate for some of his weaknesses:
1) The Hillbilly is very map and addon dependent. On some maps all you need is the turning addons to have a much better time. On other maps you absolutely have to have engravings or you will never be able hit a survivor by curving around an object. That is mostly due the loop's geometry allowing the survivor to turn around the next corner quicker than you can catch up or the loop being so long that the survivor can always step to the side without needing to mind game / guess how the Hillbilly will curve.
I suggest allowing the Hillbilly to switch between 2 chainsaw modes:
- The turning mode, that makes him move at a lower speed (210% instead of 230%) with an increased turning rate of 40°/s (currently 32°/s) during his Chainsaw Sprint. In this mode the overheat progresses 20% slower during an active Chainsaw Sprint.
- The speed mode, that makes him move at an increased speed (240% instead of 230%). However the chainsaw charge time is increased to 2.7 seconds (instead of 2.5 seconds). ~ Basically a weaker version of the Death Engravings. Unlike the Death Engravings, the speed mode does not alter the overheat rate.
Changing between turning and speed mode happens by pressing the active ability button and will take 3 seconds. During these 3 seconds the Hillbilly moves at a decreased speed of 85%. The charging sounds for each mode will be different (higher pitched sound for speed, lower pitched sound for turning), allowing the survivor to adept their play style.
2) The Hillbilly's Cool-downs (bumping, hitting a survivor, stopping the chainsaw) are reduced by 15% to 2.55 seconds (currently 3 seconds). For his addons the 2.55 seconds will serve as the reference point of 100%.
3) To help him deal with hitboxes a bit better, the Hillbilly will no longer bump for the duration of the enhanced turning rate (0.75 seconds).
4) Addon changes:
Brown addons:
- Steel Toe Boots: Reduced cooldown changed to 10% (currently 12%) to compensate for 2).
Yellow Addons:
- Dad's Boots: Changed to Dented Metal Plate. "An old plate of metal, that has seen better days." Increases your Field of View by 15%. Field of View gains do not stack. ~ Tier 3 Shadowborn. You know why.
- Death Engravings: Nerf: Increases the Movement Speed during a Chainsaw Sprint in speed mode by 10% (currently 15%) to compensate for the added base speed. Buff: Increases the Charge time of the Chainsaw in speed mode by 5% (currently 12%). Other effect stays the same.
- Off-Brand Motor Oil: Added effect. Decreases the time necessary to switch between speed and turning mode ( and vice-versa) by 0.2 seconds.
- Big Buckle: Added effect: Press the active ability button twice to overload the Chainsaw causing a non-directional map wide noise and immediately gain 40% overheat. This effect has a Cool-down of 15 seconds. Buff: Reduces the Terror Radius by -12 metres (currently -8 metres).
Green Addons:
- Low Kickback Chains: Nerf: Decreases the Cool-down time after hitting an obstacle during a Chainsaw Sprint by 20% (currently 28%) to compensate.
- Leafy Mash: Added Effect: The Chainsaw is now smeared with Leafy Mash covering up the Chainsaw's glow and slightly reducing the smoke eminated from it. Buff: Gain the Undectable Status Effect for 20 seconds (currently 15 seconds) after hitting a Survivor with the Chainsaw.
- Doom Engravings: Nerf: Increases the Movement Speed of the Chainsaw Sprint in speed mode by 15% (currently 20%) to compensate for the added base speed. Buff: Increases the Charge time of the Chainsaw by 5% (currently 12%). Other effect stays the same.
- Black Grease: Changed to Dad's Wrench. "A trusty wrench to get the job done, often used by Max Thompson Senior." Decreases the time necessary to switch between speed and turning mode (and vice-versa) by 20% (0.6 seconds).
Purple Addons:
- Spiked Boots: Nerf: Increases the Turn speed during the Chainsaw Sprint by 30% (was 44%). This effect is halfed while in speed mode. Buff: Increases the Cool-down time after hitting an obstacle during a Chainsaw Sprint by 20% (currently 28%) Added Effect: Reduces the Cool-down time after ending a Chainsaw Sprint in turning mode manually by 30% (0.765 seconds).
- Iridescent Brick: Added Effect: Silences the Chainsaw for all Survivors outside of the Terror Radius.
- Apex Muffler: Rework: After hitting a Survivor with the Chainsaw gain 100% overheat for 5 seconds. ~ 5 seconds of full overheat, then back to 0 overheat.
All addons not mentioned above stay the same.
What do you think of these suggestions? My goal was to make the Hillbilly a little bit stronger (and versatile) and a lot less frustrating to play as while still allowing for sufficient counterplay from the survivor's side. The reason I did not suggest to remove the overheat mechanic is because it was implemented for the purpose of making it impossible to deny unhooks by revving the chainsaw indefinitely, limiting the Hillbilly's camping ability.
It's quite a lot... But I'm not sure how to really tackle his problems with only smaller changes.
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@stvnhthr said:
Most killer perks are passive, that is they change the perimeters of the game to make it more challenging. They do not have to time anything, no button pushing involved. They just get more formidable stats and create a more difficult play environment for survivors. Survivor perks are mostly active perks, that is they require skill to use. All players using dh should expect with a minimal amount of skill to get some use out of the perk.
In theory I agree. Of course a perk should give you value for running it. Otherwise it becomes useless.
However, the kind of value a perk can and should provide as well as how often the perk should give you value are all points that you need to consider. SB for example will come in a chase no matter if the survivor is about to lose the chase or not. Same with Lithe. DH on the other hand? A killer will first chase the survivor, then eventually get a hit, fight for the second hit and then it all comes down do DH. Assuming a killer would only need 20 seconds of chase for each hit (which is something most killers can't even dream about), that would still put them behind schedule, if DH is used correctly.
Something that killers often have to do because time is not on their side is to leave chase. Against SB or Lithe that will come at the start of the chase this is fine. DH prolongs it after the killer has already spent a considerable amount of time in chase. Leaving now isn't an option as that would only result in wasted time for the killer and the chance of DH happening the next time they find that survivor as well. That means, a correct DH will put the killer in a lose-lose situation. Seeing as matches get more and more fast paced and one of the strongest slowdown perks will be nerfed it becomes more crucial for killers to not hit DH. To the point where it becomes pretty much useless.
My point is, the kind of value (a third health state) and the time it comes in clutch (when the chase should be over) are core problems of this perk and force the killer to play around it, denying its value.
The reason I suggested to completely destroy the perk is mainly because it's the easiest option for the devs to get DH out of the meta, improve QoL for killers and also get one of the most unpredictable factors for balancing out of the way. Otherwise, they'll have to go back to drawing board with this one and change its purpose.
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@TOFFU said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355467#Comment_3355467
As i said above....by saying nobody will play vs SWF is admitting swf is a problem and OP. Just nerf swf. Thats it.
That's exactly the issue though. How can you nerf SWFs without affecting the people that play together just for fun and also solos. Not every SWF you face is a comp squad. There are some very casual people playing DBD as well. If they get affected by that same nerf that would balance a strong SWF, then we have a problem. Nobody plays a game where they lose every single time.
The better option is what BHVR are doing currently. Try to somewhat close the gap between solos and SWFs so that we can then bring killers on a level where they can compete with both without completely stomping these casual players.
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I understand your frustration but this is not the solution you might think it is.
Why would any killer decide to play against anything other than solos? Most wouldn't do that. So then SWFs (that, as stated by Peanits, make up a majority of DBD's playerbase) would never find a match, while also dramatically increasing killer queue times due to a lack of solo players.
We can hardly fault people for playing with their friends and using comms. Something like that happens in every online game and it's something that BHVR use to market DBD. You can play together with your friends, trying to survive against iconic killers like Michael Myers, Freddy Krueger, Bubba and Pinhead. Without SWFs this game would never have grown the way it did.
Undoubtedly, SWFs do have an advantage over solo players. They are the power roll of DBD because any information can be gathered by and spread between 4 (2, 3) people and pretty much everything can be coordinated. The devs introduced some QoL updates for solo players that will probably bring them slightly closer to SWF level. Eventually they'll have another look at kill rates and reassess.
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For some reason the devs decided to create visually stunning maps but then make them so bad to play on everyone hates them. Both Red Forest maps look incredible in my opinion but the core problems are still there as well as some new ones.
I wish they'd care about map balance more. Cowshed is a perfect example of what happens when you tell a number of people to design a part of a map with no information on what the rest of it looks like. You come up with a strong loop because if there was another strong loop around, surely they'd tell you. Really, Cowshed is just safe loop into safe loop into time waster into safe loop. The other Coldwinds aren't quite as bad but they're all fairly hard to deal with.
Worse than the Coldwinds are the new maps though. Haddonfield has some ridiculous, recycable time wasters (looking at you, Myer's house), Eyrie and Borgo are both super safe and stacked with pallets and Garden of Misery has a literal infinite. It's kind of a shame that you can't really enjoy playing on these maps because they all look beautiful, except Borgo. Borgo is just very red.
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@[Deleted User] said:
dead is one of the most fun and hardest perks to use god are you all not
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352460#Comment_3352460
Exactly these tru fan boys who only play killer are so loud it's wild. DH is one of the most balanced perks in the game, and has such a high skill window. Other exhaustion perks are more reliable and just better, but dh Is fun to try and use. That's why people love it.
This has nothing to do with "tru fan boys who only play killer".
For example: The vast majority of players (killer players included) agreed that Nurse was too strong. Nurse being hard and fun to play made no difference to the argument. She was still problematic.
This applies to DH as well. I don't blame anyone for having fun using it and I know that DH is not always easy to time. However, this doesn't change the fact that it's overused, horrible to play against and way too strong to risk not countering it. Most killers can realistically not compete with 4 survivors that have 3 health states in every chase. DH being hard to use, in some situations actually very easy, does not negate this fact. People can and will time DH correctly.
DH is impossible to balance. It will always be unbalanced because there are 3 types of players that you need to consider:
- 1) survivors that fail to use DH correctly most of the time
- 2) survivors that sometimes can pull off a correct DH
- 3) survivors that mostly pull off correct DHs
Which type of players do you want to balance the perk around?
Type 1) requires to buff the perk and make it easier to use. These people will then sometimes get value out of it. Only, this also effects Type 2) and 3) as these survivors will then have a much easier time to use it as well. Meaning more successful DHs per match and more killers losing because they have no shot to end chases quickly enough to win.
Balancing around Type 2) for reference would be what we have now.
Type 3) implies that too many people do use DH correctly. The logic response would then be to nerf the perk and make it harder to use. For example reduce Endurance time to 0.3 seconds. Obviously Type 1) would then pretty much never get any value out of the perk. Type 2) would become Type 1) pre nerf and Type 3) would only sometimes be able to use DH correctly. Then we'd have a discussion, that DH is too weak for most players but perfectly fine for the few who can DH on reaction.
Any nerf or buff to a perk has effects on every player using it.
@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355261#Comment_3355261
No. The reason i said that is because it removes a playstyle/interaction between killer and survivor. The mindgames are very interesting. And i agree, you can have fun with or without dh. But whether you like it or not, dh isnt going anywhere.
Thankfully, that is not your decision to make. The devs have final say. I will continue to give them my feedback and suggestions and explain the reasoning behind my arguments to have a chance of them reconsidering Dead Hard and either finish what they started in 6.1.0 (nerfing DH to make to make it less prevalent) or completely reimagine the perk.
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@FeryGEN said:
The argument of the survivors for this post will be one - dead hurd is now balanced
That's partly why we're having this discussion.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354030#Comment_3354030
Im sorry, i stopped reading when u said that we should remove anti camp and tunnel perks for the sake of killers winning is their fun which isnt and should not be the case unless ur just entitled. You can win or lose and still have fun.
Now, think about what you just said. You're 100% right that we shouldn't remove these.
Why though? The reason is that this would make the game overall less fun (apart from balancing problems, which I pointed out exist for DH as well). That was exactly my point regarding DH. It makes the game less fun overall. The one using it will either be frustrated because it doesn't work or they'll have fun using this perk because it does work for them. Killers on the other hand? How exactly is it fun to be forced to play around a perk that you don't even know is in the game yet? And then, you don't play around it once or twice but pretty much every single chase. If you risk going for the lunge and hit DH, you give that survivor the ultimate advantage in chase. A free health state. This can easily cost you the game, if it happens repeatedly. Even 1 DH is enough to put you into a losing position in a game that would otherwise be close. That gets frustrating after a while.
This is why killers play around it and this is also why DH is no fun when you go against it. I can live with a survivor making a good play on me. In fact that makes the game more interesting. DH on the other hand is always the same. You get into position to hit the survivor, now you wait. On top of that it makes the game stale. Any seasoned killer will expect survivors to run DH because it has been by far the most used perk in the game and it still is. In 6 years nothing has changed in that regard.
Something being fun doesn't make it healthy. That's exactly the case with DH.
Just as you can win or lose and still have fun, you can play with or without DH and still have fun. Otherwise you might want to consider playing another game instead.
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I mostly play nice, meaning I don't tunnel and camp and I only slug when it's convenient (like when there is another survivor right next to me). However, I do often encounter survivors that are out for blood.
I play nice, they'll teabag and complain about how EZ the match was and how I didn't provide any challenge. I play to win, they'll realise something doesn't go their way and either they dc or find new ways to tell me I should end myself after the match. On top of that usually 1 or more -reps on my Steam profile. Even when it's solo players they blame ME for some jerk disconnecting. How is that my fault?
Every once in a while though, I get matched with people that really appreciate me playing nice. The end game chat can be surprisingly wholesome.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355002#Comment_3355002
Killers who remove chase ...... basically the only fun thing a survivor can do, just defeats the whole purpose of playing that role
Out of the recent Killer releases from BHVR, it's what? look at how many recent killer releases are anti-loop killers? Artist? Dredge? Knight? and now another one coming?
If BHVR wants to kill looping, then tell me what do Survivors do? Just close our eyes and hold W so we can be your mousey toy plaything until you down and hook us, and inbetween that stellar gameplay, we have holding M1 and staring at the screen.
You can loop Dredge alright. He isn't anywhere near as bad as Knight. The one thing you need to learn against him is how to chain loops but that typically isn't too hard. If it troubles you, I recommend Windows of Opportunity.
Artist and Knight are 2 killers that are very hated for this exact reason. Looping them doesn't work. You can hold your own in chase against them, it's just not by looping. Instead you try to maintain distance and use every bit of distance you can make when they use their powers against them. I agree that both are not particularly fun to play against. Their pick rates imply that not too many people play them either, although for the foreseeable future there will be more Knights than usual because there are archives for him.
I don't see how SM would be an anti-loop killer though. In chase she is pretty much a weaker Ghostface at best. You can loop Ghostface pretty well, can't you? The most she can achieve is her power to be an inconvenience, that tells you to chain to the next loop sometime soon or get exposed. Mind you, Ghostface will not ask to expose you. He'll simply do it and then you're in a worse position than against SM. I'm much more worried about how people will play her when they want to win. Without a chase power and mobility, a killer is very limited in their options. SM will probably be played as a 3 gen warrior just like Knight.
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It's not like every anti-loop killer is as oppressive as Knight and Artist. You can still loop most killers in the game. It's just not braindead running around an object before dropping the pallet, rinse and repeat. Technically every single killer in DBD has some kind of an anti-loop. Trapper has the ability to instantly shut down any loop, Wraith does have an extended lunge after uncloaking, Hillbilly can use his chainsaw as a form of anti-loop, Nurse can literally go through objects, Huntress can throw hatchets over small loops, Doctor has a shock that prevents you from vaulting and dropping pallets, Myers has a faster vault and extended lunge (in tier 3), Hag doesn't really chase and also has the ability to shut down any loop, Bubba has his chainsaw, Freddy has Dream Snares etc. You can loop even Wesker and Blight. Of course you need to play different than you would against a Trapper but it's not like Shift + W is your only option.
Complaining you don't like anti-loop killers is pretty much admitting that you want to turn off your brain while playing DBD. How fun do you think it is for a killer to be unable to deal with loops? You run around the object, sometimes try to go for a mindgame and still the best you can do is get a pallet out of the way a bit earlier. Great. Very engaging and thrilling gameplay.
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Yeah.... No. Not gonna happen. Not a good idea.
Besides, why would you even suggest such a thing? So you can DH more often and still have it not work? DH is a problem. Possible solutions are to either completely reimagine that perk or to nerf it to the point where nobody uses it anymore.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352737#Comment_3352737
time can be changed as well as regression percentages of 5-8% and penalties of 25%.
And the idea is that it is necessary to kick the farthest generator from the hook and not any
That would still be quite a nerf, though. The killer walking to the furthest gen away from them is easily 15-20 seconds of wasted time just to get there. Now they'll need to kick it (1.8 seconds) and potentially make their way to the next survivor, at least another 10 seconds...
The idea of giving killers a reward for leaving the hook is one I fully support, even with a downside (at least in theory). It's just not as simple as it may sound because you need to look at the bigger picture.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/365838/anti-4k-slug-suggestion
It is necessary to make it so that the survivors can get up from the ground themselves and then there will be no this toxic gameplay where they leave you on the ground and nod.
This is especially annoying when there are 2 of you and you can no longer fix the generators, lo and behold your friend was found but the killer leaves him on the ground and this is still playing for time.
DEVELOPERS MAKE THE SURVIVORS GET UP FROM THE GROUND AND THIS WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
Base kit Unbreakable... We had a PTB where this was a thing and players resoundingly said this was a bad idea.
Being slugged isn't the most thrilling experience but base kit Unbreakable will result in the killer having even less ways to create pressure. That would only amplify tunneling even more, while simultaneously removing any risk in playing reckless and swarming the killer.
When there are only 2 people left, it would be nice to see the bleedout timer regress at a much quicker pace (maybe 2 minutes instead of 4). That would at least make this a bit better.
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I used to play very nice as killer but I can only lose so many games, see so many survivors teabag me, telling me how bad I am when they barely had any interaction with me before I snap. Normal chasing doesn't work anymore because pallet camping and Shift + W will buy a survivor mostly enough time for their team to get the gens done. Giving up chase to go for the next survivor doesn't help either as they can do the exact same thing. This only gets worse against survivors, that know how to loop.
I remember being told to "just pressure gens" countless times. How do I do that, though? I can stare at a gen all day long, hit it repeatedly, stack the strongest killers, perks and addons but these damn things have nerves of steel! They just won't stop progressing. I assume that most people actually mean "pressure survivors off gens" but again; how do I do that? I have not yet found the key on my keyboard that suddenly moves all 4 survivors directly in front of me. Getting one survivor off gens, means there is still another 3 progressing the game, so the killer is technically still about to lose. Injuring one survivor and then going for another is worthless (for obvious reasons), ending a chase in 30 seconds is anything but realistic and outpacing survivors (downing and hooking a survivor before the one previously hooked is back on gens) is a mathematical impossibility.
When I play survivor, I mostly encounter killers that seem to have the same impression. Typically they'll bring some strong gen regression on top of their best addons and tunnel someone out as soon as the opportunity arises.
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Damn, that looks scary!
That's a killer I would actually play.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354439#Comment_3354439
Ah yes, because Nurse Blight and Wesker exist, these windows should be allowed to spawn, yep, that makes perfect sense
Nah, just use Crow Control, bro. 🤣
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It gets worse. There can actually spawn a TL-wall, that connects perfectly with these 2 windows.
I'm not 100% certain but I think this might be a literal infinite then, if played correctly. I only saw that once and because the surivor that used this set up against me was pretty damn good I lost chase while trying to play around this.
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Good idea. 😂
Though, how would I play no-blink Nurse then?
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I think DS could use a buff. Bring it up to 7 seconds. Really make it hurt the killer for tunneling. However, if the killer downs a different survivor after that survivor got unhooked, DS should deactivate. At this point it's not tunneling anymore.
DH really should bite the dust. We tried nerfing it to push it out of the meta. Didn't work. At this point they should either completely nuke the perk (I'm talking gather up the devs, let them come up with a nerf each and apply every single one of them), or completely rework its concept. A third health state via exhaustion perk should not be a thing.
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I agree with most of your points. Though there are some things that I think are worth mentioning:
Billy: Does have a lot of problems besides him being very addon dependent. He feels pretty awful to play, you pretty much have to run Shadowborn to go for curves, overheat feels pretty bad to manage and the vast majority of his addons is pretty.... Ugh.
Myers: Has incredibly bad time management.
Doctor: Dependent on latency. Another 2 meters of range to his shock would help.
Freddy: Should be able to teleport to completed gens.
Pig: Mostly fine. Though, it would be nice to see her stealth speed slightly increased as well as the roar of the ambushed delayed by a bit. If necessary, slightly nerf Tampered Timer and Crate / Bag of Gears to compensate.
Demogorgon: Weak addons. Could use some small buffs to his base kit as well.
Blight: Mostly fine. His addons are overtuned though.
Artist: Perfectly fine.
Wesker: Great killer. Only problem is his tunneling capability.
Knight: Basically feels awful for both sides.
I think you misunderstood something about the Artist though. The birds injure the survivor as long as they are within the marked range and the bird does not collide with an object first. A survivor, that is swarmed by birds can be injured by hitting them with a second bird.
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It's a cool concept but it would never work against SWFs.
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One step ahead of you. I run it from time to time when I'm just chilling and can't be bothered to play around flashlights. It's surprising how even experienced survivors often don't realize that you have it just because the pick rate is so low, that they don't even consider it a possibility.
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Nothing really happened to Hag herself. It's just the current meta she has some trouble dealing with. Infinite heals, endurance and quite a few maps with gens spread so far she has trouble defending them with her limited range.
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Wait, what? Noooooooooooooo! That is the funniest thing ever.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/365685/kill-dead-hard-already
Sorry hun. But dh is just fun to use. Its that high risk high reward playstyle that alot of ppl are attracted to. They can gut it even more but if there is a timed activation still attached to this perk, it will still be the most used perk. And its not consistent whatsoever as it entirely depends on the interaction of sirvivor and killer including ping which eruption is not. So there is a reason eruption is being touched as higher priority.
It's fun for you. For the one using it, DH is fun. You know what else is fun? Completely annihilating your opponent. If we only care about how fun things are for one side, then we should remove every anti-tunnel and anti-camp perk as the killer has fun winning and these strategies make that much easier. Somehow I doubt the majority of survivor players would be happy about that.
I said I wanted this perk nuked, not nerfed. Meaning I want see DH gutted so hard that no one would risk running it anymore as it would be virtually impossible to get value out of it.
Another option, that I support 100% was suggested by @BenOfMilam in this thread. The idea is to make DH an anti-tunnel perk. That would make this perk useful, healthy and for the first time ever not a giant "F you!" that the killer has to endure in almost every chase.
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@stvnhthr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353109#Comment_3353109
This is not true. There is no way to know when to hit dh or when it will activate based off of visual cues or animations, you get different results (if it works at all) every time. Even within a match the timing is different every time you use it. It is not dependable at all. Even when you time it right and get the points and the onscreen verification that it worked you go down about half the time.
I do not understand killer mains who complain. Killer is way easier than Survivor. I have a vision problem so first player perspective games make me motion sick. I have no perks and little experience with killer but the few times I've played as killer I get a 4k every time. Every time. Well one time I got a 2k and the other players quit.
There actually is as long as you don't turn off your sound and your screen. For example: Huntress' and Wesker's grunts, Demogorgon's shred animation, Hillbilly's roar, Spirit's weapon manifastation sound, Blight's hit animation, Trickster's knive sounds...
I can go on. The only thing that influences the timing in an unpredictable way is latency. Most players have very stable connections so that that only changes around 0.01 - 0.02 seconds per match.
I repeat one of my opening arguments: A perk that you use should work as intended. If you can't time DH correctly, then don't use it and we're all happy. Any nerfs to DH would not affect you since you can't get value out of it anyway. Also note: How is a perk that even when used perfectly (as implied by the onscreen verification you mentioned) does not work as intended something you'd want to use and keep this way?
We had DH validation before and this literally made killers quit as implied by the survivor queue times at that time because you always got onscreen verification but didn't down the survivor. When that happens not once or twice, but in a majority of chases per game you can't blame the killer player to be fed up and leave. This is something that BHVR will most definitely not bring back. However the way you described it isn't ok either. A complete rework or players not using DH are the only ways out of this misery.
We've heard so many of these "Buhu, survivor is sooo hard but killer is always easy." nonsense comments before. If you're playing against potatoes any game will be easy. I even managed to 4k as no-blink Nurse without perks and I'm sorry but you basically can't lose against that because you're literally faster than the killer. I tried this douzens of times and eventually got matched with very unexperienced survivors that were on top of that trying to bully me. Play a few more rounds of killer, go against survivors that don't play with their feet and suddenly that all changes. Besides, if killers were too strong and DH was the only thing balancing that out, you should support this nerf all the more. Because then we could look at the actual kill rates, kill rates that aren't influenced by this god awful perk, and balance the game around that.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353426#Comment_3353426
And if you take the useless stuff out, you get the best stuff every game on everyone with no risk. Not great.
We already have that problem though. It's an inflation. At first that didn't matter too much because everything used to be so damn expensive but now you get so much out of so little BP...
It makes me hope they'll reduce the amount of stuff in each bloodweb while simultaneously increasing the excpenses again. And maybe do something about the ridiculous stacks of items, addons and offerings many players (myself included) have like reducing it all by factor 5.
I don't need every one of my main's brown addons thousands and thousands of times.
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Maybe because they are unaware of this particular issue. I suggest posting in the bug report section and give them as much information as possible. Is your network connection stable, on what platform do you play, which roll does that happen as, how frequent does it happen, is there anything in particular that seems to trigger the disconnect, does the game crash as well or is it only the disconnect?
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I doubt Otzdarva of all people encourages toxicity. He has been a voice of reason and constantly tells people that even when they play to win they shouldn't go out of their way to be d*cks.
He said something among the lines of: "If you want to win you will need to tunnel, camp and slug eventually." This isn't exactly wrong because all of these strategies create pressure that you can't achieve by playing nice. If this is something you consider as toxic then that's on you.
I don't know why the killers you faced where being hostile towards you. I know however that it is easy to get frustrated when playing killer. This frustration is often expressed to the first survivor the killer can catch. It's not nice but it happens. This is nothing personal but a coping mechanism. Far from ideal but somewhat understandable.
However, I suggest you don't call killers in general toxic. I happen to play mostly killer. Did I do anything to you? Probably not.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353366#Comment_3353366
Excuse me, but close the distance to what degree if not minuscule/none at all? You would need to take a constant, practically clairvoyant path of least resistance for the entire match, and any sort of tidbit time chunks you'll have "saved" would evaporate with a single stun or blind.
These build up over time because they occur very, very frequently. On an individual basis they won't make much difference, but repeating multiple times per match, on top of the other compounding buffs. You ARE saving time, and over the course of a trial, likely quite a bit of it.
Did you not bring up the time added to gens as a killer buff? I mentioned the hyperfocus/stakeout combination because it subverts the added gen time and exacerbates the issue of ultra fast completion. It impacts the average killer because no human being who consistently plays this game is going to remain a novice, they will inevitably get better/develop game sense over time and adopt the most effective tools available or the "META". Is it not foolhardy as a game dev to leave crazy-strong combinations as they are just because a majority of the player base isn't running riot with them at the moment?
But if this is supposed to be the 'meta', why is it on such a low pick-rate? That's the point: If this is supposed to be so damn effective, why are people not picking this up? I rarely ever see Hyperfocus. The biggest problem I'm seeing for gen speeds is BNP, not Hyperfocus.
Then there's the point that Hyperfocus and Stakeout are perks, which means that the ability to do these gens faster comes at the expense of other things, so that benefit has to be offset against whatever it replaced, unlike the benefits killers got, which were basekit and are flat increases.
Yes, you are. In fact, I'd actually go as far to say that if this is your stance, then you don't possess a hard grasp on the causes behind the 3 primary events that make uninstalling an attractive option for survivors and killers alike, i.e. tunneling, camping and/or hard-slugging.
This is an extremely tired argument, but let's go with it, yet again.
Prolonged exposure to generator efficiency elements that boost completion speed beyond the scope of reason, conditioning killers to jump to desperation tactics early unless playing one of the few top-tier killers quite well.
There is one element that can be considered proliferous, and that's Prove Thyself. And it does not increase gen speeds overall. It can break 3-gens more efficiently, but it doesn't increase survivors' total repair speed. This 'prolonged exposure' is largely rumination. The other day there was a complaint about how many gen repair speed perks are being added, and as multiple people in that thread rightfully pointed out: They all suck. The majority of them are really bad perks. Hyperfocus is the only one that sees any kind of use, and it barely does.
Overabundance of defensive resources and 'second chance' perks inside a high efficiency environment.
I am generally quite tired of the inane use of that buzzterm 'second chance perk' because it's built on total misunderstandings of the game's core principles, but the application here is, admittedly, bloody hilarious.
Because what is the red thread connecting these 'second chance' perks, with the exception of Dead Hard?
They are ALL counter-perks designed to stop camping, tunnelling and slugging. In your argumentation for why people resort to camping, tunnelling and slugging, you mention that the 'overabundance' of perks that counter it are a reason to start employing those tactics.
That does not make sense.
Killers looking at their hud not far from the start of a match, seeing that survivors have 60%+ completion while they merely have 0 - 8.3% completion and effectively going into 'oh s**t mode.'
Another misunderstanding of the game. Once again, only the generators are counted, but when people complain about NOED, it's 'the game isn't over until you're out the exit gate'.
Survivors aren't immune to damage once the fifth gen is completed. The killer isn't incapacitated when the fifth gen is done. Each gen isn't a neat 20% of survivor objectives.
In addition: The speed with which survivors repair generators at the start is a speed they will not attain again at any point in the match after the first chase, if the killer is in any way competent. This makes a flat percentual perspective objectively misinformed.
Necessity is the mother of invention
So is laziness. Tunnelling is fast, easy and efficient. Why wouldn't you tunnel? It is objectively the best way to play! Not to mention that it's a great way to turn bully to someone, and lord knows people on the internet love bullying.
This incredibly optimistic attitude of 'killers only tunnel because they have to' just does not line up with fact. When killers were boosted in 6.1, there was no reduction in tunnelling. Killers objectively got stronger, survivors objectively got weaker, and yet tunnelling continued unabated.
I am sick and tired of this 'woe is me' attitude killers have and the tantrums they throw. The reality behind tunnelling is that it's fast, efficient, easy, and it makes survivors miserable, those are the driving factors behind tunnelling. Anyone that tells you otherwise is just pretending they care about game health when in reality, they just want to demand buffs.
AFTER THIS more strict mechanics can be introduced to make tunneling, camping, and slugging virtually pointless/tactically undesirable.
No. We're not doing this again. Because this exact same promise was floated before 6.1 and then nothing came of it. Roles should reverse this time: FIRST we fix tunnelling/camping/slugging, and THEN we adjust balance.
I'd rather play hook-based matches (with more chases) that feel more fair and fun instead of kill-based matches that mostly feel like a sweating fever dream.
Then stop sweating. Play easier and you'll get easier opponents.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353367#Comment_3353367
This is all largely irrelevant to the topic at hand though.
"Why are survivors the only ones getting buffed?"
Because the killers already got their buffs back in 6.1. What survivors are getting now is already compensatory. Killers don't get compensation for the compensation survivors got.
Uhmmm.... Sure. I guess you haven't heard yet. 6.1.0 was a compensation because BHVR saw killers as too weak! This here? This HUD is not a compensation as they had no intention of making survivors stronger. This is something they wanted to implement as a QoL improvement anyway no matter how strong or weak survivors are. That's why they were always asking how they could improve solo queue and even said, long before 6.1.0, that they were working on ideas for this very issue.
If the kill rates do drop, which is likely, they will buff killers again. Because the kill rate they achieved after 6.1.0 is exactly what they're aiming at. That's how it works. Survivors got a nice little HUD to help them and killers will get something for compensation eventually.
You made it sound like BHVR were desperately trying to restore balance after 6.1.0. That is not the case. Because after 6.1.0 the game was balanced according to the devs. We already see the HUD's impact. We don't have any official data yet but it should be clear that this does actually effect kill rates. The less time survivors waste the shorter the match is and the harder it is for the killer to get kills. The only questions remaining are: "How much will the kill rates drop?" and "How will killers be compensated?"
It's hardly unreasonable for killer players to ask for compensation for the HUD and all the upcoming QoL improvements for survivors.
Because some people are hearing impaired they will add a visual indicator for the killer's TR. What about the people that get motion sickness when playing killer without Shadowborn? Base kit Unbreakable is still on the table. How will killers be compensated for that? The finisher mori is not a compensation. This only works when killer wins anyway.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352115#Comment_3352115
59-61%.
How is the game supposed to be in a 'lot more unbalanced state'? You forget that in 6.1, killers had their regression buffed, they had their on-hit cooldown reduced, survivors had their hit-sprint reduced, and gentime was increased by a total of fifty seconds.
Why should killers receive buffs if y'all are just gonna show up here a month later pretending you didn't get anything?
We've heard all this before. But you know what's interesting? You bringing up kill rates that are this old. That was shortly after the patch 6.1.0. Survivors have gotten a lot more used to it by now and we see DH in every game again. You know, that fance little perk that some people solely rely on to help them in chase?
I find it funny how many times we've heard this: "Yeah, because of the extra gen time games are 50 seconds longer than before" nonsense. The average game is now shorter than before 6.1.0, if the killer doesn't stack slow down and it's clear that you didn't do the math. This would imply that all games take at least 5x90 seconds = 450 seconds = 7 minutes and 30 seconds (this is not even including the time you'd need to get from gen to gen). You're missing a very small detail there. There isn't 1 survivor on gens all game. There are 4 survivors and the best a killer can realistically do is only have 2 people on gens with 1 person on a hook and 1 person in chase. Anything more is very lucky and can't be applied for long.
What happened after 6.1.0 is the HUD change and an inflation in items and addons. Everyone knows that the HUD does have at least some impact on the game's balance because in DBD information is crucial. How many times did killers win because survivors were less efficient before that? I reckon this will reflect on kill rates. We haven't had any official kill rates since, so bringing up the kill rates of 6.1.0 as if nothing had changed is not helping your argument at all. If anything, it makes it even weaker.