Xernoton
Xernoton
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444254#Comment_3444254
Thats pretty much what being hooked is, you're just waiting for someone to help you until you die
The only difference is that being in dying state takes a lot longer and you can move around
I guess the missing feeling of urgency contributes to it. Personally I don't care, if I'm being slugged as long as I don't have to bleed out (4 minutes can drag on forever), so I'm really just guessing.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444029#Comment_3444029
Slugging takes a lot longer though, and I don't get why its hated because of that reason
Probably because it has the potential for a survivor to die on first and isn't exactly interactive when you're laying on the ground waiting for someone to come and pick you up.
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@Göch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444018#Comment_3444018
Yeah mate because survs not knowing what others do only affected Solo Q, and the whole intention behind it was to bring the level of Solo Q vs SWF closer so its more managable to adjust the strengh of killer/surv without ######### over either Solo Q or Killers.
I explain the lack of outrage towards that "bug" that it is more of a skill issue, you can pretty much avoid it most of the time.
"Being affected by a bug is a skill issue." ~ @Göch
Wow. That is definitely a hot take. I can't even argue with that logic (if one can even call it logic) because the very concept of cause and effect doesn't seem to apply in your world.
I can say however, that what you stated before is wrong. A survivor is not dependent on the killer's 87° FOV to mindgame and escape the chase. If that was the case Shadowborn would be the strongest perk in the game. By a huge margin. You can still break line of sight with the killer and because they can't see anything they wouldn't be able to see anyway by slightly turning their camera they will still be unable to spot you. If your "mindgame" has to rely on the killer not turning to look in the general direction you went, I would argue that mindgame wasn't all so great to begin with.
This is not a nerf to survivors and it is not meant to increase the killer's height by 8 ft to allow them to see survivors over loops or give them free aura vision through walls. It is a change to allow players, who need it to play killer without sacrificing a perk to an accessibility option. Just like the change to Spine Chill and the visual TR were implemented to no longer gate keep an accessibility option for hearing impaired survivor players.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443938#Comment_3443938
The problem is the only thing survivors can do is gens, killers on the other hand have multiple ways to kill someone. I do agree other ways to win do need a buff, or some new ways added at the very least to help mix up the gameplay and keep it feeling fresh for both sides.
The killer has 4 ways of trying to win the game:
1) Going for 12 hooks. This is where a lot of people would like to go (myself included). But for that to be desirable for the killer there needs to be an incentive to play like this instead of utilizing one or all of the other strategies.
2) Tunneling. I already covered that this is a way to build more pressure and achieve better results.
3) Camping. This is another strategy we do not want killers to use and we'll get an update to help with that but it should be listed anyway.
4) Slugging for a comeback. Often times a killer will find themself in a position where they will not be able to win by hooks, they need to take survivors out of the match another way.
Looking at this, you'll find that 2), 3) and 4) are often complained about (understandably) but they all come in clutch where option 1) fails. My point is that punishing killers for tunneling and camping will lead to an uproar in slugging and when that doesn't work, they'll brute force through all safety walls BHVR put in place and still tunnel and camp. Mainly because 1) has no advantages over 2), 3) and 4) combined. This is why I want to see incentives to go for more hooks.
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@Göch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443915#Comment_3443915
Such a dumb argument honestly, you dont even know who you're playing against and blindly "punish" them with a boring tunnel game just for the small chance they might be toxic players... "All survivors are toxic and deserve to be tunneled" Yeah great mindset!
Read again, play a game of killer and maybe try to understand what I actually said. There is not other incentive not to tunnel other than to actively play inefficient, which handicaps you and makes you lose matches you would otherwise win.
Of course you punish people by tunneling. You punish them for being an easy target. Would you stop doing gens and run towards the killer to get hooked when their match doesn't go well? No, you'd use their lack of pressure against them by sticking to gens and finish the game before they can make a comeback. There is nothing wrong with that. That is simply your best play.
There is absolutely 0 reason why a killer shouldn't tunnel other than "It might make the survivors unhappy." Do you honestly expect killer players to place that as their top priority? When survivors wouldn't do the same thing? I don't blame either side for playing how they want to play as long as they don't break any of the game's rules. I'm just saying there is no reason to play nice.
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It actually works the other way around. Pain Res does not regress completed gens but it does regress gens that have 50% progress.
@MoNosEmpire said:
Title says it all.
How exactly would you punish the killer for tunneling and how would you compensate them? Because the most common suggestions turn out to be flat out nerfs to killers and not really solutions to the issue at hand. If it was worth it going for 12 hooks, more killers would do it. But as long as the only incentive to not tunnel is to basically throw the game, get teabagged at the exit gate and harassed in end game chase I can't blame anyone for tunneling the hell out of the first survivor they find.
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@Göch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443652#Comment_3443652
Yeah but buffed erruption was around for a short amount of time and caused a big uptick in complaints by everyone, the FOV is like that forever and most people are absolutely fine with it.
And don't tell me those "accessubility feature" people wont be the first to set FOV to minimum mid match after beeing blinded from a sick angle. Or even better, the whole new discussion about "why can i with my 120° FOV be blinded from such an angle? CHANGE FLASHLIGHTS!"
First off, 120°? That's the normal human eye range without eye movement. We're currently at 87° but for most people I think 102° will suffice.
By the way you can already blind the killer from outside their FOV and I don't see many complaints about that. BHVR could even set the flashlight angle to be fixed no matter your FOV, if you are scared killer players would purposefully handicap themselves to make blinding a little bit harder. But I guess that wouldn't be fine either because then you couldn't actively punish people for using an accessibility feature.
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Badham is horrible. All 5 of them. The pre school is disgusting, the house of pain will always have a special place in hell and the double store house is another great time waster. Also they have a shack because 3 super strong guaranteed loops, obviously aren't enough.
The bushes on that map make my brain hurt because I constantly get confronted with the fact that 6 ft 8, 200 lbs man with a chainsaw cannot go through them. Like, what are these bushes made of?
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Presumably right after the Twins rework. So that might take a while.
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This is a great suggestion. I'd be happy, if they tried and started with something small like maybe 1 or 2 maps that can change between day and night. I miss the old Coldwinds so much. Yeah, they were freaking ugly but the atmosphere was great!
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Dead Dawg has some things that are horrible for killers but also some redeeming qualities that can make it a very favorable map for killers if played right. The main building should be avoided at all costs. It is a huge time waster and cannot be disarmed. There is also the possibility of spawning some nasty set ups next to it.
But it has a pretty weak shack (breakable wall mostly disarms it) and despite how it might look, the map is actually pretty small and there are a lot of areas, that you don't have to care about. Some places only have very few pallets and it really hurts once they are gone. There are also thick grass for Trapper and Hag, good 3 gens for pretty much any killer, very consistent and manageable collisions for Blight and Billy, chances to break line of sight for stealth killers, favorable basement spawns for any killer, mostly mindgameable pallets for M1 killers and 1 very unsafe gen against ranged killers at the gallows. All in all, Dead Dawg Saloon can work in your favor, if you are able to play to its strengths.
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@NerfedFreddy said:
Then survivors also should get fov-slider bc survivor's view is limited and too "zoom-in"
I am not against an adjustable FOV for survivors, though I am not sure, if this is necessary. As far as I am aware the survivor FOV has never been an issue.
But the part about an option to zoom in is out of the question. That is not what a FOV slider is used for. If someone purposefully wants to limit their FOV too see further for the entire game without actually seeing things they shouldn't be able to see however (stretched res) be my guest.
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@Göch said:
How often will this topic get spammed? Theres like 20 active threats about this....
I specifically asked for a reply by the devs so that we CAN finally stop "spamming" this. If there is no comment from BHVR, how are we supposed to know, if they even consider it or if they are aware of this issue? Until we get an answer, this is the way to go. Make more and more threads and show them, that this is in deed something players want. And considering that it is an accessibility problem and BHVR have reworked Spine Chill for exactly that reason, this really should be on the list of priorities.
@Emeal said:
This topic is easily ignored cause Killer Vision is tied to balance and gameplay.
No way bHVR willingly wants to mess with the game's balance unless there is a big push for it.
How about we all set a date, when they say its the PoV day, they day we push bHVR for POV the whole day
get as many streamers in on it, twitter, tiktok, reddit the whole party... we make 1 push to show how many we are who care about it.
After that, I think it would shift in priorities for bHVR.
But this also means, you have to suggest a reasonable implementation, SO what is the reasonable implementation for free PoV?
I won't argue that it doesn't affect balance as that would be wrong but the question is, how much? I've seen some people claim, that a FOV slider completely removes the chance for survivors to hide, which is simply not true. A wider FOV does not allow the killer to look through walls or around corners. It only makes it harder to sneak by the killer when they would easily spot you just by slightly turning their camera anyway. Considering that the devs implemented the new survivor HUD as a quality of life improvement and had no issue with that affecting the game's balance, I believe this really shouldn't be a big deal. Also keep in mind, the wider your FOV and the more you see, the easier it is to miss something. The worst that could happen would be for some killer players to have a free perk slot, that they shouldn't have to give up for Shadowborn as an accessibility option in the first place.
I have little expertise when it comes to motion sickness and I will not pretend otherwise, so I do not have an answer that is guaranteed to please everyone. But I reckon that there should be an option to tune the FOV anywhere between 87° (normal FOV) and 102° (Shadowborn FOV) as it seems to solve the issue for most players, alternatively they could add different options like 87°, 92°, 97° and 102°. If you or anyone else have more expertise in that area, I would be happy to hear your contributions and work out something more specific.
I don't care how we make BHVR aware of this issue as long as we don't harass them. The most important thing for me right now is that they actually respond in some way so we can either stop making threads and pleading for something that's never going to happen or are reassured that they'll look into it and tell us more in the future. I think everyone would fine with an answer like: "We are aware of this issue and will look into it but we cannot make any promises yet." The radio silence on this matter is not helping anyone.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442765#Comment_3442765
As far as their movement speeds during their cooldowns go
Billy is slowed to 1.38m/s canceling his saw before quickly regaining momentum and his 4.6 speed for the rest of the cooldown. (this operates on a curve for both of them so it's hard to say they're X speed for Y amount of seconds)
Blight is slowed to 1.15m/s during his entire fatigue until it finishes on miss/running out of tokens.
They're both slowed further if they successfully hit, but I feel that's largely a non-factor, especially when one literally downs you if it connects.
Now, I do see your argument about how much risk there is to Billy compared to Blight. To some extent, I think you can justify it as risk vs reward, with Blight being much less risky but Billy being more rewarding with an instant-down. However, something I want to be clear on is that when I speak of Blight, saying his cooldowns are fine or that he's balanced, I do it speaking of basekit Blight (and barring things like Hug Tech that are stated to be bugs awaiting patches). There is, quite frankly, no defense for how strong his add-ons are on such a strong killer, especially when other killers such as PH and Nemesis have abysmal add-ons.
I've even made add-on nerf suggestions myself. And yes, I also concur that Billy is extremely punishing---too punishing even, which is a factor in his rarity. I just don't want to risk another Billy incident where they nuke both the killer and the add-ons, resulting in the killer being in a miserable state for years.
Thank you for the information about their respective movement speeds during the cooldown. I'm not quite sure Billy's cooldown works as intended because it feels like even after the 3 seconds you are still unable to perform any actions but I haven't tried to stop the time and analyze that further yet.
I was not only talking about the risk to their powers but also the possibilities. Billy is more limited than Blight is. There simply aren't as many ways for him to force a hit / pallet as there are for Blight. Much less without the right set up.
The reason I think Blight's cooldowns are too low is because he simply has too little draw backs for this potential. There are very few tiles in the game where a seasoned Blight can't get a hit with their power and he can start his power pretty much in any position in a loop without the need to mindgame too much beforehand. Meaning he can get hits and pallets incredibly fast with little cost. When we look at base kit Blight in a bubble he might look alright. But when it comes to the whole game and how maps are in need of reworks Blight becomes an issue again. We cannot have a number of killers that would be ok, if maps were a bit weaker and this monster stomping over everything in his path because there simply aren't enough ressources to delay him.
To repeat my argument about his addons, he should be a strong killer with his addons and the addons shouldn't be useless. Addons should always have considerable effects, otherwise they become obsolete. But what useful effects can you give current Blight without making him overpowered? Alch Ring, Blighted Crow, C33, Adrenaline Vial, Blighted Rat, Blight Tag and even the Shredded Notes make him considerably stronger, remove counterplay and make him more forgiving than he has any right to be. You can nerf all these addons into the ground and leave him with a bunch of useless gimmicky crap (much like Billy) but this isn't really what we want, is it? He needs nerfs to his strongest addons (C33, Alch Ring, Adrenaline Vial, maybe even Blight Tag considering what top tier Blights can do with it) and his base kit, to the point where with his good addons he is around the same level (maybe a little bit stronger) as he is now with his base kit.
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@Pulsar said:
I, for one, do not want any new maps.
Agreed. After seeing the maps we got over the last year I'm really not looking forward to any new maps.
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I think he would be fine, if the yellow Chili was base kit and his other addons were fixed to not punish him.
I'm pretty sure this is a symptom of poor coding. They programmed his power as a whole and then added addons that wouldn't effect a part of his power but his entire power. That's how I imagine the "bug" with his Chilis came to be in the first place. They didn't add extra time but added a multiplier to the chainsaw time, which also affects his acceleration.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441878#Comment_3441878
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441328#Comment_3441328
Seeing how this devolved into a typical "Blight is OP" spiel when I just wanted to share how long his cooldowns are, I guess I'll take a moment to ask something to you two since I'm seeing this brought up.
What does "no cost" mean?
Let's compare him to Billy for a moment. Both start with their power, are 115%, have a power that's primarily used for mobility but with effort can become an effective chase tool, and shreds through pallets. Now, inarguable differences would be that Billy has laughable add-ons compared to Blight's nuclear options, as well as Billy being a lot harder to control for a greater reward (insta-down vs normal hit).
But what's the big cost? I'm not trying to say there isn't one, I really am trying to understand what you mean. Is it saying Blight doesn't take an effort to learn? Because that's not true; he is a challenging killer to learn and master. Not as much as Billy, to be fair, but he's widely regarded as likely being the hardest killer in the game. Is it that Billy has terrible add-ons, because this entire post was created talking about basekit Blight with 0 mention of the add-ons that everyone agrees are an issue.
His cooldowns would not be a problem, if Blight didn't excel in every possible way. That's why I brought up what the actual issue with this killer is. Increase his cooldowns a little and see him still outperform. Increase them too much and see how nobody will want to play him because it basically reduces him to a glorified M1 killer.
Warning: This will be a lot to read. Because I don't want to write even more on the matter I won't go into every aspect of their respective powers and explain how different addons might affect all of them. I'll try to stick to the most important details and point out addon variences when useful.
In comparison to Billy, at first glance Billy might look like a much stronger killer. After all, the Hillbilly has an on demand insta down, greater map mobility (in theory but we'll get to that one later) and the potential to shred through pallets even quicker. For someone, who has little knowledge about the game he might look like the second best killer in the game only topped by Nurse.
But that isn't the case. Billy has a lot of problems, that you'll see when you play him yourself and get to go against better and better survivors. His map mobility suffers from map layouts, collisions, rng and addon dependence. Only one of these things is an issue for Blight. His collisions are horrible and should be fixed regardless of his strength but even then he can play around it. Very good Blights will find a way to bump into the most slippery tiles. Top top it off with Blight you have to the option to decide, which path you want to go. Billy can try and do that at the cost of 2 addons (Driftking Billy) and still he won't be able to do it in the same way Blight does because his power doesn't work like that. There is also the possibility for him to overheat, if he tries to go for a long distance chainsaw.
Onto the chase potential. I was half expecting someon to bring this up, but let me ask you a question: What is harder, dodging a Billy or dodging a Blight? A Billy player that tries to get a snipe on you can be easily dodged by walking to the side at the last moment even with Engravings or turn rate addons. With Blight that isn't quite so easy as he has a hitbox, that, when used right, will get him the hit even if you are right beside him. There is also the possibity for a Blight to first bump and then go for a hit, which buys him more time and limits the survivor's options to dodge dramatically. Comparing both killers, you'll find that Blight has a much easier time to engage a chase because he can use his power to get closer to the survivor and react to their movement while Billy has to predict, hope and get a bit lucky with the map layout to achieve something similar but still not quite as good. If both killers cannot get the hit immediately they'll suffer a cooldown. For Billy there is 2 possibilities, as he could either bump or end the chainsaw manually. Both will result in 3 seconds cooldown with the difference, that Billy can move as long as he didn't bump. Blight on the other hand can only go on a short cooldown (2.5 seconds) and will be able to move as well. On average Blight is also likely to get much closer to the survivor before starting his cooldown. I do not know the exact numbers of their respective movement speeds during their cooldowns, so feel free to add that, if you do. What I do know however is that a Blight is easier to get into a get position to start a chase from.
During chase, you rightfully pointed out that Billy has similar abilities to Blight. He can shred through pallets incredibly fast and get hits (even insta downs) where other killers might struggle. So how comes, he's not considered to be one of the best killers in the game? This is largely due to 3 factors: addon dependency, loop layout and counterplay. I already pointed out, that Billy is quite addon dependent. This has 2 main reasons when it comes his chasing potential regarding curves. First, his base chainsaw speed is too low low to get hits on many tiles and second, addons can open up new ways for him to curve. For example, Engravings make him so faster that during 0.75 seconds of increased turn rate he can first go straight until he passes an passes an object and then still turn and to get around it. Usually you would already need to be right at the edge of that object pull off such a curve. Also, with Engravings you can sometimes wait a bit longer and further around a corner before starting the chainsaw and catching up with the increased speed to get the hit. The loop layout is often underestimated when it comes to how greatly it affects this killer. There are many tiles where a Billy can potentially hit you (pretty much 80% of all loops). But how does Billy achieve that? Curves don't work on all tiles. That is mostly because some loops have the shape of a square or circle. The problem here is that Billy will already take too long to get around one corner and come into a position where he can initiate a curve, so that even if he did manage to mindgame the survivor beforehand they'll still easily make it around the next corner before the Billy can hit them. This is a problem on a many, many, many loops we currently have. Then, of course I need to point out collisions. There is a good rule of thump with Billy. If there's a bush, only use your chainsaw when you're at least 3 feet away from it and don't get any closer. This pretty much eliminates the possibilities for him to curve around any loops with bushes (as long as he needs to curve past them). There are other tiles that you need to treat with the same care but taking all of them into account would take me another 1000 words. Then, we have loops that are shaped like triangles. These ones are a bit tricky. As long as the survivor doesn't panick they'll be save and the Billy can really only go for a back rev. Worst case scenario, they'll have to drop the pallet a bit earlier. Against very inexperienced survivors however (or survivors that aren't careful) he will be able to get a curve on them with enough set up. Most main buildings only allow him to try and go for a back rev but even that is mostly not going to be an option, leaving him as a pure M1 killer. Regarding standard tiles like LT-walls, jungle gyms and pallet gyms Billy will have to rely mindgames and guessing a lot and always has to run Engravings. Otherwise there is no possible way for him to get a hit (granted the survivor doesn't monumentally screw up). I've already covered a bit of this but I'll point it out again. Billy has a lot of counterplay. Like, a lot. You can mindgame, maintain distance, pre drop, run around loops with awkward collisions, abuse windows for maximum pain, crouch tech (though, if you do that there is a special place in hell for you), jump into a lockers and even react to his chainsaw. On most loops a survivor has enough time to react to Billy's curving, which really leaves him with no "right play" in that situation. This can be mitigated by Engravings but never eliminated.
Blight finds himself in a much better position here. Unlike Billy he is able to hit survivors around corners, which already is a huge deal and he can play around most loops in the same way. Rush and bump until you catch up and hit. I know this is easier said than done but for the sake of this argument I assumed the Billy wouldn't mess up the angle of a curve or back rev neither. On loops where that might not work he can also try and hug tech, which makes his chasing power even more versatile. Something, that many people don't take into account when it comes to Blight's chase power is his ability to adjust and react to survivor movements while using his power, allowing him to switch directions and mindgame even while already using it, which again is a way to get hits where Billy would struggle. As I mentioned before Blight can create situations, where the survivor will mess up regardless because they have no "right play". This is the exact opposite of what Billy struggles with. Now, let's see how Blight deals with Billy's other weak points. Mindgames: Reactable. Maintaining distance: Not an option due to the nature of Blight's power. Pre dropping: The same as Billy, a little better because he can force out pallets faster. Awkward collisions: Horrible for both, a little easier for Blight to deal with. Windows: Blight can play around most windows pretty well. Crouch tech: Both are affected by it, Blight has a chance to look downward and hit survivor regardless. Jumping into lockers: Possible against Blight but comes with a higher risk because Blight has 2 options to deal with it (wait for his cooldown or bump again). Reacting to his power: Possible and definitely not always easy to deal with but can result into hits regardless. To compare both killers in chase you need to consider how long it would take a Billy to get an insta down vs how long it would take a Blight to get 2 hits and how many ressources they both get out of the way. I can only base this argument on what I explained earlier and our perceived strengths of both killers but in general Blight gets faster downs even with less effort. The top tier Blights are pretty much unstoppable in chase, while top tier Billys still have to set up and mindgame more, which results in more missed shots. Blight might have the highest skill ceiling in the game but his skill floor isn't all that high and payoff to skill ratio is way higher than on any other killer besides Nurse (and when you are only exceeded by Nurse that shouldn't be used as a defense that your power is fine).
The cost of their respective strengths are cooldowns and the necessity for set ups. While Blight has little to need to set up for his power to grant him a hit, Billy has to do a lot more in that regard. Both killers suffer cooldowns after using their powers with Blight's cooldowns being slightly shorter but with the cost of a refill timer as opposed to Billy's power being ready as soon as the cooldown ends (granted he didn't overheat, which unlikely as it is can still happen). Blight's base kit doesn't have many problems even with the low price he has to pay for this strength (other than hug tech imo because it allows him to get hits with too little effort on some loops and his whacky collisions in need to get fixed). But when you factor in that he already is this strong without any addons and no killer's addons should be useless like Pyramid Head's for example you really can't find a way to give him useful addons that don't make him an absolute monster. All his useful addons are mighty transformative in the right hands, which goes to show that every part of his power is already strong without any enhancements. If he was this strong with his good addons, that would be fine. But how can we allow one killer to be this strong with the best addons in the game on top when killers like Trapper, Pig, Myers, Clown, Wraith, Sadako, Freddy, Doctor and even Trickster exist. This list can be continued all the way up to some of our stronger killers because there are many situations where they simply get outpaced. You can make an argument that this is a problem with these killers and not Blight but when it comes down to fixing it, BHVR need to make some changes to the core of this game like reworking unfair maps, nuking Garden of Misery (honestly, this abomination doesn't deserve better), reducing the number of pallets on some maps and even blocking the gens for the first few seconds of a match, so that killers with low mobility don't get screwed just because.
Even when comparing base kit Blight to Engravings Billy (Lo-Pros are too difficult factor in as they are too transformative and affect different players in different ways), Blight beats Billy in almost every category imaginable. This is where the low cost of his power (low cooldowns during which he can still move) becomes an issue. It allows him to outperform most killers and he has a lot of potential to correct mistakes and even if he doesn't get a hit with his power he is still a normal killer, which leaves him with no greater draw back than a 2.5 seconds cooldown during which he moves slower and can't perform any action.
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Some games are not meant to be won. This was likely one of them.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441404#Comment_3441404
Collision is absolutely horrible on many maps. What exactly am I reaching for?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441417#Comment_3441417
I literally gave you a drawback. Mistakes on blight are punishing. Spirit and nurse can both use their powers at every single loop / tile in the game on any map. The same cannot be said about blight.
His draw backs are minor. So what, if you miss a rush? You do not get stunned and you can correct a mistake or even wonky collisions often enough. What other killer can do that (besides Nurse)? Not even Spirit can do that without some of her best addons.
His power has an insanely high skill cap, that I agree on. I also don't think that this killer should be balanced for the absolute top tier Blight players because it would make him completely inaccessible for most players. But really Blight is such a power house that he EASILY without any effort outclasses even A-tier killers with whom you might be pretty good. What punishment does Blight get for screwing up? He is slowed down for a short duration and has to wait for his power to come back. But until then he is still a M1 killer and can do normal plays. Besides he has addons to help with that as well.
Compare Blight to the killers below him and tell me that his power isn't infinitely more forgiving and more versatile than 90% of these killers. Hell, even Doctor suffers more from a badly timed shock than Blight does. Because that might be the 1 opportunity the Doc had to get a hit. Blight can create opportunities even when survivors don't mess up. Try that with other killers and see how well it goes. And we haven't even factored in his addons yet. A killer that is as strong as Blight should still have useful addons but they shouldn't completely break him. The problem is, when your base power is this strong, how do you expect that to be achievable?
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I agree. Most pallets are too safe. That would be fine, if the game wasn't as fast paced as it is because you can break through safe pallets and eventually that should hurt the survivors. But in reality very few killers can actually get pallets out of the way so fast that this stops being an issue.
The game is faster than ever, which is not exactly surprising because survivors are now more inclined than ever to focus on gens above all else but with the nerfs to regression perks we start to see actual problem that this game has. The math doesn't add up here. Even, if a killer got one hook every 45 seconds (which is way faster than most killers are able to) and tried to go for 10 hooks, that would take 450 seconds (7:30 minutes). But because the gens can easily be finished in 300 seconds (5 minutes) with only 2 survivors on gens and 15 seconds to run between gens, no grouping up on the last gen as well as no speed modifiers like perks, toolboxes or even skill checks this is not achievable in a match against focused survivors.
Windows of Opportunity got catapulted from an A-tier perk to a S-tier perk because even the most inexperienced survivors can pre drop / pallet camp and buy enough time to put most killers behind schedule.
@nars said:
yes please. just played a garden of joy game with 7 CONNECTING LOOPS. 3 of which were safe, the other 5 either being window loops or regular pallet loops.
Garden of Joy is a lost cause.
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The problem with Blight is his versatility. He has EVERYTHING. A chase power, mobility, the ability to correct mistakes, low cooldowns, an ability to quickly get rid of pallets, crazy good synergy with popular perks and strong addons. What more could a killer wish for?
Even if you can't hit the survivor using your rushes you are still a 115% movement speed killer. This means you can still play M1 killer and mind game or chase normally when all else fails. Obviously, this is not going to be enough against top tier survivors but you shouldn't win against them, if you're not a top tier killer yourself.
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The more efficient one side plays, the faster they can potentially end matches and outpace their opponents. This forces them respectively to play faster and more efficient themselves, which forces their next opponent to do the same thing. It's a cycle of trying to win matches faster than the other side, which now got worse because survivors adjusted from spam healing to rushing gens to compete with killers and killers now need to tunnel and camp even more to not get outpaced.
Further survivor nerfs are not going to do much here and nerfing killers isn't going to solve that issue either because now that players got accustomed to this play style they won't change it as long as it keeps winning them games. What needs to be done is tackling both issues at the same time. Camping and tunneling need to be addressed while simultaneously limitting gen rushing. Otherwise we make one side toy for the other.
@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440072#Comment_3440072
Gens dont have feeling, survivors do.
You can say the same abou the killer. And they won't be super happy getting teabagged after the survivors obliterated them either. The truth is that most players either don't care about their opponent's feelings or want them to feel bad about themself. The amount of players that maintain a more positive approach is small to say the least.
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@Rovend said:
is it even possible to do five 90 sec gens in 2 minutes?
In theory, yes. In an actual match? Most definitely not.
The fastest I've seen was in one of my own games with a group that finished 5 gens in 3:47.
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Try to get a feeling for his power. How long does it take to fully charge a chainsaw? Can you feather (99%) the chainsaw without having to look at the bar? How high is the initial turn rate and how far can you actually curve? Where do you need to start a chainsaw in order to get to where you want to go?
Some things I've learned with him:
Don't try to curve on every single loop. There are loops that are shaped like squares or circles and you will never be able to hit a curve here.
Shadowborn is your best friend. It allows you to see more clearly what is right next to you and helps with getting spun and not getting disoriented.
Don't use his Engravings addons immediately. Try to get a feeling for his base kit first and then try to improve running Engravings.
Practice juggling the chainsaw and looping at the same time. It's one thing to know the timing of your feathering but it's another to actually be able to fully concentrate on mindgaming a survivor and spinning like crazy while not getting disoriented and not messing up the chainsaw at the same time.
Learn collisions. There is no way around it. In order to effectively use Billy's chainsaw in loops you need to know where you can curve and at what angle you can press into walls. Some (very few remaining) tiles have walls where you can really push yourself into them at an angle and not bump while others (mostly bushes) will make you bump even when you can't see them.
This last bit is very important. Billy can be incredibly frustrating and most Billy players find themselves fuming at hitboxes eventually. When you feel like that, the best thing you can do is take a break. Maybe play a different killer and come back when you really feel like playing him again. Eventually you'll get more used it and learn how to play around it.
Most important: Have fun. As long as you enjoy playing him you'll be motivated to play as him and get more experienced.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440934#Comment_3440934
In comparison to their track record, yes. It was still 8 months.
Oh definitely. I didn't mean to insinuate, that this was some super quick hotfix. They were quite fast in fixing it in comparison to their track record is all I said. In fact, you framed it perfectly: "They have a glacial reaction time." It's just that this was definitely a priority.
@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440951#Comment_3440951
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440934#Comment_3440934
Talking about fast how quick was ruin undying? (Original)
Undying was introduced in 4.2.0 and it was changed to work only once in 4.5.0. These 2 patches were released 5 months apart. So again, it was rather quick for them.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440898#Comment_3440898
Tbh let's not pretend like Erupting OverBrine wasn't in the game for 8 months straight. Like they have a glacial reaction time, but that glacial reaction time isn't biased towards one side, they're just slow to act on any and everything.
Eruption was fixed pretty fast when you consider BHVR's track record. OverBrine wasn't just nerfed. It got obliterated.
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@CorvusCorax86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440649#Comment_3440649
Coloration is definitely an issue. I hope it will soon get reworked.
Kind of sad, that they release a map where players immediately want it reworked because it looks ugly and is horrible to play on. And not even just killers or survivors but both sides.
It reminds me a bit of Garden of Misery (only that it doesn't look bad). But seeing how that map remained unchanged (apart from a few lighting readjustments) I'm not optimistic they'll get to fixing it anytime soon. Especially when the new map on the PTB has a worse issue, that makes it literally unplayable for some people because of sensory overload.
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If I remember correctly they said something about them being giveaways, so it's most likely going to be the way @MikaelaWantsYourBoon predicted.
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@Rudjohns said:
1- Exposed effect is an iri addon
2- The drones will only trigger killer instinct if the meter on the survivor is full (base kit)
3- Hacking a drone completely removes the drone for the duration of the bracelet, and the bracelet effects depend on addons (exhaustion, blindness, oblivious, etc). No more 5% haste and breaking a pallet if a vault happens.
4- The Skull Merchant can't activate her drones by herself or call them back. She has to wait for a survivor to hack it. She can retrieve the drone after a while (if no survivors interact with it) by approaching the drone's location (Like Trapper's traps).
5- Survivors need to remove the bracelet (like PTB), so if 3 survivors keep the bracelets with them she can't place any drones
MAAAAAAAAAYBE now she would be bearable.
1) What exactly does her power do then? That would literally remove half her power because you'd have no incentive to get rid of the drones, which consecutively would also remove the part where she gets faster for every claw trapped survivor. Getting detected by a M1 killer that has nothing else is not exactly threatening and considering that the drones would detect you anyway there is literally no point in deactivating them.
4) This makes her a weaker Trapper. Trapper at least has the benefit that his traps actually do things and they aren't highlighted for you from a mile away.
5) Again, why would a survivor ever decide to do that? They wouldn't even care about the drones in the first place.
This would make her bearable but also incredibly dull to face and absolutely horrible to play (way more than she is now). If you want a killer to actively be removed from the game, just say so because that would be easier than making all these changes.
In my opinion, nothing short from a complete rework of everything (yes, everything) that makes up this mess of killer will redeem her. They put a million things into her and it just doesn't fit together. Everything from her lore, her visual and sound design, to her animations and gameplay feels lackluster because nothing fits together. She looks like a mercenary but is portrayed as some kind of wicked assassin using drones for surveillance and striking on her target out of nowhere. Her drones in game are super flashy, so you see them from miles away and can even locate her by watching where she places the drones. For a stealth killer she is way too flashy and loud in everything she does and her whole gimmick doesn't make for a chasing killer but a more territorial play style (3-genning), which again doesn't fit her lore. Apart from that her chase music and animations are awful. Whoever was responsible for that should have long and hard look at the final product and ask themself; "Is this really what I want to sell people? A 4 seconds loop chase music and the most boring, uninspired and unnatural animations?"
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@Garboface said:
she isn't any more powerful than any other killer. any killer that tunnels you for "2-3 minutes" will catch you.
"[Nurse] isn't any more powerful than any other killer." ~ Garboface
Interesting take. The strongest killer in the game isn't stronger than any other killer in the game. Trapper, Myers, Freddy, Clown, Pig, Sadako, Wraith, Trickster, Doctor etc. would like a word with you.
You're right about the second part though. It's pretty impressive, that it took the Nurse 2-3 minutes to tunnel op out of the game. That is usually the time it takes any hardcore tunneler to do that, other than our beloved S-tier killers and Pyramid Head of course.
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That wasn't insanely fast. That's the power of 3 survivors with Prove Thyself and a single BNP or 2 survivors with 2 BNPs.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440131#Comment_3440131
You have to use monitor abuse perk and rabbit add on which reduces terror radius in tier 2 with vanity mirror then it's almost like playing with mirror but with 115% and normal lunge. Just I think his aura reading should have bigger range.
I know that but it comes with the price of 2 addons and a perk to be a stealthy M1 killer with a neat aura reading ability. My point is, that this is simply not a threat against survivors that know how to play against Wraith (who can do pretty much the same with only 1 addon). In chase the Vanity Mirror will not give you much value, especially on tiles where the survivor can see you (like most loops we have).
TL;DR: It's fine. Not good, not bad. Just "fine".
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Yeah, obviously. Myers is so strong that there are, like, 3 maps where this can actually help him. Please nerf.
Seriously, Scratched Mirror sucks on every outdoor map and even on indoor maps it's not super good. Vanity Mirror can actually work but it makes him a M1 killer with the power of seeing auras on command. Only, that is not going to help him much in chase because he gets slowed to be way slower than the survivor (23%) when he uses it. And he still has a TR.
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None. It takes forever, especially when you play a killer, that doesn't get that many points. My highest is Hillbilly with P61.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439314#Comment_3439314
It's indeed not that large, considering killers can literally body-block you on certain maps. Where regardless of BT or whichever perk, you won't even get a chance to try and get out. Hook mechanics, offerings and sabo are 3 separate things and can be problematic by themselves. RNG has to do with the maps, offerings, and sabo are trail-dependant and not a constant factor in every match.
As I said, I find that they should either add another entry point to basement or remove it.
I don't know of a single map where the basement can still be bodyblocked. I'm pretty sure this issue was fixed completely.
BT does protect you for long enough to make it out of the basement and to at least 1 or 2 different loops (depending on the map and basement location).
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That would probably kill the game. Survivors can't play, if there are no killers and killers won't play, if they get punished for absolutely everything. Think about it:
1) Spreading pressure, nerfed because many don't like having to care about something other than gens while not in chase.
2) Tunneling. Completely impossible because a survivor that got hooked would be invincible until every other survivor got hooked.
3) Camping. An instant loss for the killer because survivors need to able to unhook themselves, become invincible for as long as the killer is still on them.
4) Slugging. With base kit Unbreakable in 15 seconds (I've seen people that wanted this) and probably no more bleedout timer this becomes useless.
5) Chase powers. All have to get nerfed until we reach a level where every killer is around the same as Hag without traps in chase. After all, how else would a survivor be able to loop a killer for 5 gens.
6) Bloodlust. Removed.
7) Mobility. Nerfed to the ground because it allows the killer to spread pressure.
8) Territorial play styles. Completely removed because we don't like killers defending the last 3 gens.
9) Second objectives. Removed because they make the game harder for solo survivors.
The list goes on.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438852#Comment_3438852
This is how I view the basement as well. Most maps have one, and I believe there should be an area the survs should avoid because it is so dangerous and potentially quite leathal.
This is what it was designed for and honestly I think it's a good thing that killers have at least one trump on each map.
It's the same as some time waster set ups survivors have. You do not want to go there, so you need to make a decision. Either stear cleer of that area or hope that you can make it through.
@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438920#Comment_3438920
Because basement is still the issue. It makes all those aspects literally possible for one and worse. Its existence in the current gameplay is redundant. Basekit-BT was also supposed to be anti-camping, yet it's useless in basements.
At the very least they should add two exits to a basement, if so adamant on keeping it.
BT does help with the basement. You can make it for 44 metres far while protected by a base mechanic. The basement is not that large. Also, the basement is a counter mechanic to hook RNG, offerings and sabotage. The amount of times I've seen a down get completely negated by a bit of luck on the survivor side is infuriating. That can cost the killer the whole match sometimes and there really is nothing the killer can do other than accept they lose because of RNG.
The basement is only as strong as the one defending it. Some people will make it the most horrible place imaginable, others will use it to get a bit of pressure in a game that mostly favors survivors when it comes to that. The basement is not an issue.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438852#Comment_3438852
Yes, obviously. You also do know that Iron Grasp exists right? And that for face-camping killers it doesn't matter whether you go down near basement or a million miles away from it.
Then, why are you making an argument about basement when the problem you describe comes from Iron Gras (which isn't even good and certainly won't do much without Agitation)?
Face camping is an issue on it's own as well. It doesn't matter, if Bubba drags you to the basement or smacks you on the nearest hook. If he decides you're not leaving, then you're not leaving. That is, of course, until the anti camp mechanic gets implemented.
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You know that the basement is specifically designed to be close to a death trap, right? It's a means of creating pressure and punishing careless survivors. Removing that makes the game even more forgiving for survivors, which really isn't necessary at the moment.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
It's very, very cluttered. Even moreso than Borgo.
I've also heard it's overstimulating on the eyes for some people, but I'm not sure how they'd go about fixing that.
Yeah, I've been feeling sick every time I tried to play on that map. Makes me sad considering that it didn't look bad even from a gameplay perspective (few lines of sight but otherwise not bad). But it's not worth it getting headaches and nausea.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438806#Comment_3438806
ikr its crazy man. I know that dbd players have been aboslutely begging for a farmland-avian-bodyhorror-dreamcore-horror type killer (like from attack of roostothicles) but lethal makes her too op man.
i miss the nurse and blights every game, now its just rooster rooster rooster
To be fair though, she doesn't have an addon like C33. I'll take an insta mori over that any day.
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@nars said:
well duh, The Rooster is the best killer in the game. I mean, we thought nurse was bad but then her power, the peckening, was able to just... one shot you from across the map and insta mori you through walls, floors, cielings and other survivors. My whole swf got insta moried bc we were running in a straight line and didnt know the was the rooster yet, so she killed us al with one shot bc she had lethal.
bhvr pls nerf pig
Damn, just I when I started maining the rooster others have found out about her strength as well.
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2 toolboxes for the cost of 1 perk without any further restrictions is completely fair and definitely not broken at all. Especially in a time where gen defense is pretty weak and survivors rush gens more than ever (understandably but you my point).
Seriously, this is stupid. It's not some incredible set up and dedicated builds as well as a SWF and the killer's cooperation that's necessary to make this perk shine. You bring it and you get a second toolbox. That's it. Built to Last is already a strong perk but it won't increase your time efficiency in that same way because it requires you to wait in a locker.
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Billy. He's worth everything and more.
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Happened for me as well. Funnily enough, it acts as though I legitimately completed it and have everything unlocked. Pretty neat.
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438374#Comment_3438374
The survivor part makes sense. By deliberate design, Ghostface can make himself unrevealable by revealing less than 33% of his body as he stalks. Part of the counterplay is to flee if ghostface does this, but many survivors just cry "It's broken" and can't accept the fact a killer power can threaten them in the future and that 5s of gen time is not worth the 40 you're on the hook.
I've seen cases where the Ghostface stood right in front of them with no cover whatsoever and the survivor couldn't reveal him. It's completely off. Sometimes GF gets revealed in the strangest places and other times he cannot be revealed at all.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438092#Comment_3438092
Don't worry, it's just as broken from his POV. Heck, I even revealed him while he was entirely behind me. XD
This is why I don't play him. It's all over the place with leaning and revealing. Sometimes you lean and then it gets cancelled, other times a survivor has a staring contest with him completely in the open and he just won't get revealed. Then there's the times when you try to approach from behind a wall and are revealed before the survivors even know you're there.
For the love of the entity, someone please fix this mess.
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That's not going to happen unless they introduce a new hex perk to tie it all together. Most hex builds are gimmicky and most hex perks are genuinely not good. They have some nice effects but the risk of a perk completely activating in the first 30 seconds of a match is too much for anything other than Devour Hope.
Especially now that more survivors have learned totem spawns thanks to boon totems it happens quite frequently that hexes get destroyed before they can provide any value. There's also the fact, that many hex perks are just weak and get outclassed by other perks even without the extra risk. Look at Third Seal for example. Blindness really isn't that big of a deal unless someone heavily relies on perks like Windows of Opportunity.
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All of these killers except Artist could use some work. The buff that PH got goes in the wrong direction in my opinion but it's good that they at least make some indivudual killer changes again.
It's a bit weird though, that they focused on these killers and not the ones that needed it most. Look at Trapper, Freddy, Myers, Clown, Pig (still bugged by the way) and Sadako. They all have some issues that need to be dealt with and are far worse conditions than the killers they did buff. Looks like another case of "Balance by Excel spreadsheet".
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436958#Comment_3436958
I mean Dark Theory allows survivors to run faster (and vault faster too) yet I’ve seen that perk used only once since Yoichi released. And that one doesn’t even require a survivor to be injured.
As I said, it's only active in a limited area and only as long as the boon is active. These are 2 massive downsides, that render the perk too situational to be good. That is not the case with Made For This.