Xernoton
Xernoton
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437469#Comment_3437469
In the interest of balance, I think it's important to point out that means the killer's anti-exhaustion tools are twice as effective, considering they're disabling two perks instead of the usual one.
Very true. I must admit, that I did not consider this.
Although, there aren't a lot of good tools killers have to cause the exhaustion effect. Some killers have addons to do that and I guess there is always Mind Breaker but that's about it. Blood Echo isn't really reliable enough to take up 25% of the killer's perks.
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There are only a few cases where I can see how a killer would be able to hold a 3 gen from start to finish nowadays. Mostly killers that have addons and powers that might support it with builds dedicated to it and a good map with a strong 3 gen along. In a normal game I doubt it's realistic to still hold the game hostage for 1 hour straight.
Although that isn't a bad thing and breaking a 3 gen is not going to be fun against any killer that has at least some kind of slow down. It's just one of these obnoxious tactics, that aren't really 'unfair' but most definitely unfun.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437296#Comment_3437296
The speed boost does not apply while Exhausted.
That's right. But it sure does apply before using these perks. Run Balanced Landing as a plan B and you have a very good chase build. DH would also have great synergy with it.
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437056#Comment_3437056
Still, machine learning looks like a better tinkerer for me, i havent tried it yet but it does not seem a bad perk at all.
Tinkerer works for every gen. Machine Learning works once per match.
Don't get me wrong, the effect is good but the fact that it only works once and then deactivates is a huge downside. Unlike Lethal Pursuer it has no further effect and it isn't as valuable (at least for me) to get a considerable easier hit one time. Because it won't do much more than that.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436958#Comment_3436958
Can't wait to see when the first survivors discover that running at an extra 3% can actually enable some infinite loops again.
Then why aren't you complaining about Blood Pact, Dark Theory, Teamwork: Power of Two, or even Hope?
Blood Pact: Strong effect with severe limitations. It's not as versatile as getting a free 3% speed bonus every time your injured.
Dark Theory: 2% in a limited area and only as long as the boon is active. Weaker effect and more ristricted.
Teamwork: Power of Two: It's pretty much a meme. Even, if it was a 10% speed bonus it would still be weak because it only works with 2 survivors in a range of 12 metres from each other. The effect once again isn't bad but the risk you take by being so close together, which makes looping almost impossible because you will get in each others way renders the perk too risky to be good.
Hope: Very strong perk. Only you need to finish all 5 gens before it actually does something, which limits you to play with 3 perks throughout the match.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436958#Comment_3436958
The new killer has a perk that gives 7% haste just for kicking a gen. An extra 3% is easily countered by that.
4 perks << 16 perks.
Machine Learning works for exactly 30 seconds and cannot be triggered on command. It is good but not comparable to an unlimited 3% bonus, that always comes right when you need it and that will not run out. Keeo in mind, if even one survivor can create an infinite loop for themselves the game, that puts the killer at a huge disadvantage.
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I have yet to see anyone complain about Quick Gambit, Friendly Competition and Cut Loose. The other perks all are or were extremely abusable. The reason you don't see them often is because most survivor groups are not good enough to utilize them. This is partly because SWFs benefit way more from these effects.
The new perks are ridiculous. Can't wait to see when the first survivors discover that running at an extra 3% can actually enable some infinite loops again. Or maybe we don't need build to last anymore and run Scavenger instead. Saving 20 seconds on a gen is not enough, let's go with 40. Keep in mind that everyone can do this for the low price of one perk and one item. You do not need to dedicate entire builds to gen rushing when you can do it that easy and save 160 seconds (of 450 seconds).
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We're not in 6.1.0 anymore. This is not 90 seconds per gen with CoB, Overcharge, Pain Res and Eruption at their prime. They nerfed gen regression pretty much to obscurity. Pain Res is still good but considering how ridiculous the math in this case is, it's not nearly enough to really compete with more gen focused survivors.
BHVR stated some time ago that their goal is to balance around 45 seconds chases. Even in the most optimistic case this doesn't work. Let's say a killer should get 10 hooks and they get a hook every 45 seconds (basically 25 ish second chases with hooking and moving around the map) that's 450 seconds = 7 1/2 minutes. When gens can be done in 300 seconds = 5 minutes by 2 survivors (assuming they spawn on gens, don't group up, bring no items or perks for extra speed, get no skill checks and walk 15 seconds from gen to gen). All of this might be fine against some super oppressive killers like Nurse, Blight and Spirit but 2/3 of the roster have no possible way to compete in this scenario.
People that realize how ridiculous this is will not mess around but abuse it to the max. Why would you mess around with the killer, when you can instead stomp them and teabag at the exit gate? That doesn't really support your claim to be at a "high mmr range".
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100-120 matches per day?! I'm in awe. Like, when do you even sleep? Or are you an AI? You can tell me, if you are an AI.
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@Kirarozu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436005#Comment_3436005
That’s what I came here to say. These killer mains need to spend a tiny amount of time on survivor lol. Plus, I rarely see BNPs in my matches on both killer and survivor. They act like it’s every game.
Lucky you. Because it is almost every game. In a time where gen slow down is considerably weaker than in the years before.
Also, why run BNPs when you can shave off 20 seconds without one and then get it back and double it? Imagine, if all 4 survivors do that. That is 4 * 40 seconds = 160 seconds. This is almost 3 minutes. And this can be done by dedicating one perk and item per player to it. This is not unrealistic or even risky against most killers as they'll have a hard time even competing against survivors normally.
And hitting great skill checks really isn't hard. Sure, you won't hit every single one but most of the time you do. At least good survivors do.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435811#Comment_3435811
no we are not ignoring that, which is why there's a buff to Deja Vu in the patch notes.
It's the circumstances around the killer going into a match and just setting up for a 3 gen that we're looking to address in the long term. Playing for the game to end in an hour isn't the intended way for DbD to be played.
But consistently ending matches in under 5 minutes is fine, it seems. I understand the sentiment but surely you see how this might look hypocritical.
By the way, this is not going to punish killers that defend a 3 gen from the start of the match at all. In fact it does the opposite as it more or less works as a reminder (with an additional neat bonus), that survivors should break 3 gens early on, which punishes killers that play normally and have to use every survivor mistake to their advantage.
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Wraith can go up all the way to B-tier with the right perks and addons. Against inexperienced survivors he is definitely a force to be reckoned with. But survivors that watch out for him, don't get caught off guard and most importantly loop him like the M1 killer he is Wraith struggles hard.
He is a bit like Freddy. Survivors that make mistakes against him go down left and right. But good players will reduce him to a M1 killer with a bit of mobility.
In no way is Wraith overpowered though. Getting rolled by Wraith almost always comes down to a skill issue. He is harder to play against than he is to play but there are also killers that have the exact opposite issue and that is mostly accepted as just the way it is, so I really don't see why this should be a problem.
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Probably. At least a little. For example I absolutely hate Skull Merchant's chase music (though I hate literally everything about her) but I love Spirit's chase music and although I play without headphones I do play her from time to time for exactly that reason.
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Preach!
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I had high hopes for the Red Forest reworks. A shame that they once again did not solve the existing issues but instead created new issues on top. Not only is Mother's Dwelling still huge, it also has some horrible collisions as well to screw some killers. There are a lot of LoS blockers and also lots of filler pallets there as well. Temple of Purgation has some similar issues.
Garden of Misery is probably the worst map the devs created in the last 2 years. I'd argue it's even worse than Cowshed (although a bit harder to use to its max potential). It seems like all new maps they add have to have lots of interconnecting pallets, at least a few god pallets and a few time waster loops, that cannot be disarmed or mind gamed.
Cowshed is already a horribly unbalanced map, so it probably can't get any worse but after seeing what they did with Mother's Dwelling I'm not even sure what they actually want to achieve with these reworks. It doesn't seem like they want to fix existing issues (Gas Heaven being the exception) but try to randomly shift things around while staying close to the current layouts.
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Depending on how well the Singularity is executed it has the potential to either be quite a fun killer or another Skull Merchant. I'm still excited to actually play the Singularity.
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@HUNKAlphaTeam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433417#Comment_3433417
They'll add killer bots before you know it.
If they ever get to the point where killer bots need to fill in for actual players because otherwise queue would be too long, that's when I believe the game will die.
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Hillbilly. It took me almost 2 years to gather the courage to really try him. Now I'm in this abusive relationship where I love and hate him at the same time.
Edit: This describes it perfectly
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3 weeks ago I faced a group of survivors, that got to end game in 4 minutes. I played Sadako and in these 4 minutes I got 3 hooks and constantly chased multiple survivors off of gens. They did not bring any BNP's and only 1 toolbox.
I was so shocked that I asked, if there was a cheater because it seemed completely impossible that they could do the gens so fast with me constantly on their heels. Found out it wasn't a cheater but a well coordinated group.
Obviously, this was not a normal game, but it shows that survivors can reach a level of efficiency that killers simply can't compete with (except S-tier killers). Solo survivors can bring toolboxes to speed up gens and partially compensate the lack of efficiency in that way.
By the way, most of my killer matches end in about 5-6 minutes.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433222#Comment_3433222
No? Pain Resonance, No Way Out and BBQ&Chilli are some of the strongest killer perks in the game right now and all of them require you to get hooks. Slugging can be useful but doing it constantly is asking to be out-pressured over time if you aren't playing Condemn-only Sadako.
BBQ one of the strongest killer perks in the game? That's a reach. It's a fairly weak but nice to have perk. When it comes to strength, there are probably 20-30 better perks killers can use.
I use it on pretty much every single killer because it reduces the time in between chases, which makes the game more fun for me but I'm under no illusion that it's one of the best killer perks.
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I've had great success as a solo survivor with Open Handed, Bond, Windows of Opportunity and Lithe / SB.
There are definitely a lot of builds you can use as a survivor, that will work, if used correctly.
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@SpiritsHusk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433468#Comment_3433468
Will definitely take over a year to rework her, devs probably thing she's perfectly fine. Would rather just not play against her if im honest
I doubt they think she's fine. It's probably more that they don't really know what's wrong with her. A killer that gets that much negative feedback cannot be fine.
Although I understand your sentiment, we cannot really expect players that bought her to be fine, if she's pretty much unplayable because everyone would dodge lobbies against her.
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In other words: "You don't have to rework her as long as I don't have to play against her."
A rework is definitely in order. There is enough in her kit to design 3 killers and that would probably be the better option.
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It depends on the numbers. This has great potential but the wrong numbers could make this the worst nerf killers have ever received. Also, this will be horrible on indoor maps like Midwich and The Game. 16 meters isn't a lot and it will probably work even across floors, considering that every other radius in this game is also coded like that.
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A killer that is hated with so much passion cannot be good for DBD's health.
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@bm33 said:
Good thing BHVR has been working on a basekit Unbreakable mechanic, increase in slugging will just encourage them to finish up tweaks and release it.
Yeah. And with it they'll shift the issue to the heaviest tunneling. Expect 3 hooks and someone dead in every single game when that happens and a kill rate that'll be too low for BHVR's standard.
By the time they fix these issues (which they will have to do back to back) enough people will have stopped playing killer to force them to either give huge compensatory buffs to killers or revert these changes.
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@MeanieDeeny said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/376112/imagine-just-for-one-day
For some reason the last couple days I keep getting Doctor, after Doctor, after Doctor..with a Wesker sprinkled in.
Idk wth is going on. Idr Doctor being played so much...also idk if it's just because I main killer and haven't played so much surv in awhile (as I have the last couple months), but I don't remember him feeling so overpowered.
Probably the latter. Doc is pretty good at punishing even small mistakes, which makes him very oppressive against unseasoned survivors. He's definitely not overpowered though.
If you can manage to maintain a bit of distance, mind game him here and there and pre drop some pallets you should be fine against most Doctors. Also, playing him helps a lot to see his shortcomings.
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@maybelawliet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390991#Comment_3390991
No it’s neither. I’ve been playing DBD for a while. I’m good at looping, blah blah blah. I can distract for minutes but it’s still not enough.
Then that's a skill issue of your team mates. It does not work like that.
The math has always favored survivors. Killers need to slow down the game considerably to have a chance to win. Otherwise survivors can end the game in under 3 minutes realistically.
You distracting the killer for minutes means that at least 3 gens are done during that 1 chase. Otherwise you'd have team mates, that don't work on gens and that would be a skill issue and have nothing to do with killers being overpowered.
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The system is good in theory but it could easily be the biggest nerf killers have ever received, if the numbers are wrong. I'll trust, that they know this and will closely monitor the PTB to not make that mistake.
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Nobody complains that there are quality of life improvements for survivors. It's more that it feels like killers are neglected while survivors keep getting nice changes. Over the last months there have been a lot of quality of life improvements for survivors but none for killers.
The changes to DH and medkits were much appreciated balance changes but ultimately they aren't the quality of life changes that have been asked for years.
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I have noticed this as well. It feels off. Hopefully this will get fixed soon.
Maybe they could even add visual clues for footsteps and a general direction from which they are coming from (nothing too crazy, just some general hints). That would help players, that don't use headphones a lot.
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I don't see the reason we need areas with no hooks around. This has been a known issue for years and the solution isn't exactly rocket science. Just add fixed hooks in certain spots and the problem is solved.
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Scratch low tier killers. Most killers can't handle that. I've seen survivors escape in slightly more than 4 minutes without any BNPs and just one toolbox. I tried my hardest to stall the game even by a little bit but I couldn't.
Survivor efficiency is realistically higher than anything most killers could even hope to achieve. Low MMR survivors won't reach that potential but mid and high MMR survivors definitely can achieve that. I did a 15 escape streak as a solo survivor with no items and even managed to get some totem archives out of the way. Obviously, that is not everyone's experience but as long as all survivors know how to play the game (and don't rage quit) they have a good chance against most killers and destroy most low tier killers by default.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431948#Comment_3431948
Not true at all.
If killers underperform, they will get buffs too. Like how they got before.
Face-camping was very boring and unhealthy game design for years. It needed to go. Tunnelling should be next. And toolboxes & gen progression perks also needs to be gutted.
Unhealthy mechanics should not exist in DbD anymore.
That's what we hope for. Though, they'll have their work cut out for them. Another 6.1.0 is not going to be sufficient. They'll need to actually deal with killer specific issues and that will take a looot of time.
Camping, tunneling and slugging, while definitely too versatile in their current states should not be completely removed / punished. They are ways to punish survivors for mistakes and preventing that ultimately makes the game pretty brain dead for survivors outside of loops, which means everything outside the chase becomes a slog.
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Both are necessary. Killers need an incentive not to camp while also getting some punishment to excessive camping.
One thing I see as problematic though is, that the more you punish killers for camping, tunneling and slugging, the more handholding you add for survivors. To the point where a killer cannot punish survivor mistakes outside of loops.
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I'm not sold yet. I'll play the killer on the PTB and see how it feels. Hopefully it'll be fun for both sides.
I really hope it won't end up like Knight or SM, that are neither fun to play or play against for a lot of players.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432018#Comment_3432018
Killers who rely on facecamping can't chase worth a **** anyway so I am completely fine with them attempting to tunnel more.
That is completely beside the point and a presumption that shows you don't have a lot of experience as a killer. As killer and survivor, if you want to win, you'll have to use everything at your disposal or accept that your oponent will stomp you.
Often times survivors will open up an opportunity for you as a killer to camp. For example by not coming until there's only 10 seconds left of that hook stage, running around the killer next to the hook, giving the killer a good 3 gen, which they can defend while camping, going down next to basement etc. These are all things that a killer will use to gain the upper hand. Face camping often is a way of punishing survivors for mistakes.
I could be the most insane Doctor player ever and still I would camp given the opportunity because it simply is the right play in certain situations.
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Less camping = More tunneling.
Less tunneling = More Camping.
Less tunneling + less camping = More slugging.
This is how it works. They tackle one issue and create another because instead of treating a problem right at the root they treat symptoms. Their intentions are good but we'll see how well this actually works.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431880#Comment_3431880
"Bots do sit on gens every second they get". Ever played custom games with Bots? They play like brand-new Megheads.
There is no difference between a 3v1 or a 4v1 with one Bot. Except that the Killer can get more BPs.
I have actually. And I've also played against bots to get accustomed to some maps. They are better than nothing as they do progress the game.
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It depends on the situation. If you can guarantee that no survivor will touch that gen for a while or you have perks that synergize gen kicking, then kick the hell out of these gens. Otherwise you'll mostly waste your time by kicking gens.
There is one situation though where kicking the gen is crucial. If you find multiple survivors on a gen that is nearly completed, you will want to kick it and then chase someone close to that gen. Not only do you pressure the survivors by threatening to delete a part of their progress, you also prevent them from instantly getting back to it as soons as you go after someone else and immediately finish it.
This is something that comes with experience. You'll get a feeling for when it's worth to kick generator and when not.
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It's even more annoying when you face a group where all players use No Mither, so you can't even slug them.
You will win against most of these groups but they will succeed in making your match an absolute slog.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431723#Comment_3431723
"It’s still an improvement specifically targeted for survivors."
Not really. If they play like the Bots in Custom Games (which is most likely the case) they just give the Killer more points, but wont really be helpful. Once a Survivor DCs it will still be a 3v1, if there is a headless chicken in form of a bot or not, it will not change much.
Wait, a 3v1 is better for survivors than 4v1 with one bot as a teammate? How does that logic work?
Bots do sit on gens every second they get. They won't be as good as a player could potentially be but it's still a big improvement.
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Delete it and start from scratch. Borgo has too many issues for a simple rework. The colours are all over the place and it's honestly hard on the eyes to just look at it (at least for me). I can't play on that map for more than 10 minutes without getting a headache. The pallet count is ridiculous and takes any fun aspect out of the chase and that map is biiiiiiig.
It's not as bad as Garden of Misery though. That one is off the charts.
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Buff Billy (only slightly though), rework Twins, nerf Blight (mostly his addons) and remove Skull Merchant.
I don't really like the idea of removing content but it's part of the post and Skull Merchant might be beyond saving.
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Survivors do their objective faster and more efficient, which leads to killers doing their objective faster and more efficient, which again leads to survivors doing their objective faster and more efficient, resulting in killers doing their objective faster and more efficient.
This is sadly how the game works right now. Both sides try to use every advantage at their disposal to win, which forces the other side to adapt.
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Garden of Misery and Mother's Dwelling. Both maps are absolutely horrible.
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For killers it's gotta be insidious basement Tombstone Piece Myers with Insidious, Deadlock, Agitation and Corrupt Intervention. First you get to 99% tier 3, then you down 1 survivor and bring them to the basement. As soon as someone comes for the rescue not only do you down them, you instantly mori them.
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FOV slider. Pretty please! I'm done looking through a Pringles can or waste a perk slot to actually see my surroundings! Also a search bar for perks is getting more and more necessary the more perks they introduce. Then, there is always the promised Twins rework. It has been more than a year now and they haven't shown us anything.
There are some maps I'd like to see reworked (Swamp, Badham) as well but after seeing what they did with Red Forest, I honestly hope they don't rework them. I don't need another map that looks good but is horrible to play on, thank you very much.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
And here comes the flood of "oh no, it'll be to toxic" brigade. See the 3 replies above for reference.
Practically every multiplayer game has voice chat. Sure toxicity is a problem but that's what mute and report functions are for. Vc wouldn't solve the problem, but it would HELP solo q.
And if we don't want toxicity why thevhell do we have endgame chat so killers and survs can insult each other.
Think about how many salty people you saw in DBD. Now think about how many people would rather use the voice chat to insult you than for communication purposes. A lot of people would mute it. There comes the next problem. When you implement voice chat in DBD you need to balance around that as well. That means anyone, who doesn't use it gets screwed over, which makes the game even more unbalanced.
Also, no amount of help would improve the hell hole that is low MMR solo queue. The self-caring Claudette in that corner will not loop the killer for 5 gens, no matter how many times you scream at her to "git gud".
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In other words: "Let me use a voice chat to harrass people in game instead of having to wait until the game is over." I would never use it for that reason.
SoloQ is absolutely fine as long as people don't actively throw the game. Low MMR is an absolute hell hole but anything above that works.