Xernoton
Xernoton
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710089#Comment_3710089
Because 3 seconds was way too short of a duration. It was practically useless against killers like Blight, Chucky, Nurse, etc. If you want to avoid getting stunned with DS, just don't pick up, or avoid the survivors that are in lockers, they are just distracting you, instead find the ones that you haven't hooked yet if you want your Pop/Pain Res, once those 60 seconds are up they have to wait until they are hooked to be able to have a chance to use it.
Two extra seconds is a good thing for the perk.
So it does make a difference after all. That's my point. 3 seconds was not very good, so it also wasn't a big deal when DS was used to bodyblock. You'd simply down and tunnel them for free. Now with a 5 seconds however, this still puts you in a lose-lose situation.
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4 people with Breakout + Breakdown, 2 Background Player, 2 Headon, 4 Boil Over, 4 Alex Toolbox and 2 Petrified Oaks.
I played like normal but because they couldn't make me miserable, they had no choice but to disconnect. In your case it's very similar. You were supposed to have a bad game and have them BM you the entire time but instead you were so incredibly toxic as to do the same to them. Shame on you. How dare you not cry in a corner and let it happen?!
Really, some people can dish it but they can't take it. And when you have the audacity to turn the tables, that's too much for them.
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@Ebonbane2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710267#Comment_3710267
I'm all for collision removal while basekit BT is active, but many protection hits come from vicinity, not body blocking. How would these be weeded out?
The 10 seconds BT mean that you can definitely get away from any of your team mates, which already prevents a protection hit from happening. If necessary, give it a map wide Bond effect for as long as it's active, to allow players to ensure they will not run into their team mates.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710218#Comment_3710218
So OP, in this, there is already the decision made to tunnel. But, if you body block with DS, he WILL tunnel. See? So, again….
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710232#Comment_3710232
Just follow this rule and try to enjoy the game, because "Since the DS buff, I've tunneled a lot more." You will get tunneled because BHVR buffed a survivor perk. Its what you deserve for being in a trial.
But I am curious, what would make you go out of your way not to tunnel? Something has to happen in game? You just need to be in a good mood? Lemme know! @Xernoton
It's how I usually play. I know that getting tunneled out early can feel pretty bad because it cuts your game short and I am a firm believer in the categorical imperative. I try to play in a way that allows everyone to have fun because I wish that others play that way too. Or at least I wish they won't go out of their way to ruin the match for me (which tunneling is for many people).
Nothing needs to happen for me to play in that way. Something needs to happen for me to change my play style and DS used aggressively is just that. A reason for me to change my play style and tunnel that guy. They put me in a bad position, if I don't tunnel and they obviously want my attention.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710218#Comment_3710218
Exactly my point, you discredit the thought that goes into both perks because its frustrating to not be able to pin it on anything but being outplayed.
Also, you were going to slug, bleed out, and tunnel anyways, this isn't really a threat anymore, I'd imagine most survivors are used to it by now.
Good to know. I really don't see how I would avoid getting "outplayed" then. Tell me, what's my counter. Because if it is actually the survivor outplaying me, then there must be a way to circumvent it. Otherwise you would describe a lose-lose situation as an outplay which goes against it in any sense of the word.
Also, you were going to slug, bleed out, and tunnel anyways, this isn't really a threat anymore, I'd imagine most survivors are used to it by now.
I always love when someone else tells me things about myself even I didn't know. I thought going after anyone but the unhooked survivor was going out of my way not to tunnel. This is how I usually play. But in this case, I am not left a choice. Someone else made that decision for me.
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@Ebonbane2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710089#Comment_3710089
That comparison was a little off. It's not 3:1 or 2:0; it's 3:0 (3 survivors on gens while ur chasing one) or 2:0 ( 2 survivors on gens while you chase 2).
I don't understand how you don't see the benefit of keeping 2 survivors busy instead of 1. Having two survivors in your sights (one of which will be downed pretty fast) is indeed better than chasing and downing a healthy survivor; then finding another healthy survivor to chase and down.
While it may be annoying to have to slug the unhooked while you chase down the unhooker, it's worth it to give the many who don't weaponize DS an extra chase when being tunneled.
I compared the time efficiency. For a brief time the killer does not progress their objective at all. That's the 2:0 ratio. 2 survivors do gens at normal speed, while the killer chases 2 survivors without actually progressing because the one bodyblocking is protected by DS. The 3:1 ratio is 3 survivors on gens with 1 survivor in chase.
Basically, bodyblocking with DS buys 2 survivors free time to sit on gens. Frankly, there is no benefit in having 2 people off gens, if it means that your own time as a killer is wasted. Because you don't get anything out of this. Yes, the survivors progress slower. But you don't progress at all, which also means that most meta perks will not help you and when they do, then it could very well be too late.
For a Nurse, that's not a big deal. You can't bodyblock her anyway. A Blight or Hillbilly will just tunnel that survivor at that point. But against weaker killers this is very strong. They can't afford to eat the DS and they will take forever to catch up to that other survivor again. Meaning, their opportunity to get that down is gone. Now the second half of the chase starts all over again.
In any case, the killer is punished because they committed the most heinous of crimes. Spreading hooks. The solution is to tunnel right off the bat (or start tunneling that survivor, if you play a killer that can afford to lose time). This however, defeats DS's purpose as an anti tunnel perk.
There are multiple ways to fix this without nerfing DS when used correctly. My suggestion is a buff to 7 seconds (although it's not necessary), rework base kit BT so that it let's that survivor lose collision with the killer and become immune to attacks of any sort and then have DS deactivate upon taking a protection hit.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
It's not. It's just the fact it's DS and it isn't completely booty cheeks anymore.
Ohh, I'm more than happy eating a DS when I'm actually tunneling. Turn it up to 7 seconds. I have no issue with that. But get rid of bodyblocking with DS. That is not the intention behind it.
When I go out of my way not to tunnel and then I still have to deal with DS, that's when I have an issue and that's when I will tunnel. DS is supposed to be a last line of defense against a tunneling killer, not a tool to make you a meat shield for your team mate.
Since the DS buff, I have tunneled a lot more. If I have to go through your DS anyway, then I have absolutely no reason not to tunnel you. Quite the opposite because a DS puts me behind schedule, so it becomes harder for me to win.
@WolfyWood said:
Killers don't like any perk that has an obvious tell that they were outplayed.
That's the reason why DH/DS are called crutch/second chance perks and NOED is called a 'comeback mechanic.'
I wouldn't pay it any mind.
Yeah, right. I got outplayed when they mind gamed me into thinking it was safe to put them on a hook. I guess I'll just start slugging everyone until I have the whole team down?! Or do I need to bleed everyone out as well because they could outplay me by getting a kobe?
And for DH… Well, I guess pressing E to get to a pallet you otherwise wouldn't get to is an outplay now.
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Stick to gens, try to keep track of him whenever you get a clue about his whereabouts, try to identify the places he is most likely going to come from and keep an eye on them and remember he is only 105% killer. He is slooow and just running already buys you a lot of time.
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I said it before but I really don't need to listen to some 13 years old screaming slurs into their vacuum cleaner or a more refined person coming up with 50 different ways to tell to end my life. That's already bad enough in the end game chat.
I wouldn't use it and I think a lot of others wouldn't use it either. This however would lead to toxicity from the ones that do use voice chat. Likely because it's not half as fun showing off your eloquence in regards to slurs and hate speech when nobody is listening.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710039#Comment_3710039
Then they're dropping two perks and a bunch of slug time, plus extra idle time while fishing for an opportunity, on one bodyblock. Resurgence would probably work better.
Then it shouldn't be a big deal to get rid of that. Killers don't want this "advantage" and I bet a bunch of survivor players would also be happy, if their team mate didn't "waste" time bodyblocking with DS.
Bring the DS stun up to 7 seconds, turn the active time up to 80 seconds, rework base kit BT so that they survivor completely loses collision and becomes immune to attacks and then disable DS on protection hits. Done. Now it's even stronger than before but it can no longer be used aggressively.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
To all the people complaining about people being aggressive with the buffed DS, they could've been aggressive prior to the buff as well you know, they only buffed it by 2 seconds.
Besides, if they are in your face constantly then they are off generators, more pressure for you.
Then why did we buff DS to begin with? If 2 seconds don't make a difference, then let's revert it to 3 seconds. Because back then I didn't have to deal with this crap. Funny how that works in both directions, huh?
A survivor that is constantly in my face is not doing gens, that is true. However, they make sure I cannot progress my objective while 2 of their team mates are still on gens. Now, what's better for survivors 3:1 or 2:0? You don't need a Ph.D in mathematics to understand that the second option is infinitely better, literally. The killer completely stops to progress their objective for as long as that survivor is still bodyblocking with DS and then loses extra time catching up to the other one again.
All while their team mates do gens. Just like old DH, this doesn't happen randomly. It happens when that survivor is about to go down but because they didn't need to use an exhaustion perk for that, it took even longer to get them in that position. When you finally down that survivor, the other 2 could have very well finished their 2 gens, so now you get a Pop / Pain Res, that does pretty much nothing as well.
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Ohh, my bad. I shouldn't have tried to chase someone other than the person with DS because if they come to take a hit then obviously I'm tunneling. Basically to avoid tunneling I now have to stand still at the edge of the map until the DS is gone.
DS used aggressively means a survivor puts the killer in a lose-lose situation with it. This happens when they can stick around with a flashlight / flashbang and when they start bodyblocking. Going into a locker only makes sure the killer will not be able to slug them either. Honestly, since the update went live, I've tunneled more than I did in the past 1 1/2 years and it will only continue to get worse as more survivors use DS as a weapon instead of a last line of defense.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710058#Comment_3710058
We can tweak the percentage.
Why do you view a perk that promotes slugging as unhealthy? I see no difference between slugging or hooking in terms of health, just different play styles. I would always rather be slugged as it’s generally more advantageous to me for multiple reasons and it’s objectively more fun as there are multiple things you can do while slugged as well as perks potentially factoring in. There’s literally zero to do on the hook other than remove yourself from the game. I think the “real” reason people hate slugging is because it prevents them from quitting the game and it hurts their egos. I think the whole “fun” thing is a scale goat for the real reason.
I would make a distinction between slugging to get an extra down and slugging until everyone is on the ground.
The latter is not in tune with the game's balancing. We had that discussion before but hooking actually takes a lot of time and though right now I would argue that it's actually too much and increases the need for slowdown perks, it is what the game is built and balanced around.
Excessive slugging has never been prevalent enough for the devs to properly balance it. There is not much of a protection against it and the protection that exists is kind of situational and doesn't work very well when a killer really commits to it. Unbreakable is only a one time use, so it hardly matters. Exponential is mostly an easy perk to get rid of as well and not very common. Slugging also prevents a good amount of survivor perks from activating. DS, We'll Make It, DH, Deliverance, Resurgence and Wicked for example will not activate a single time.
If it was more common for high tier killers to go for M1 downs, then Knockout would probably be a much more popular perk. The only thing that currently holds it back is that most M1 killers aren't great. However, we already see what some killers are capable of with it. Slugging Singularity has become a thing and slugging also synergises well with Doctor's power (especially on small maps). Let me play Doctor on The Game and I'll show you what "disgusting" actually means.
What makes it more insufferable than hooking in my opinion is that it takes you out of the game for longer without the threat of imminent death. So instead of worrying that your idiot team mate will not get you off the hook fast enough, you wait on the ground for a good 40 seconds, knowing you won't die (yet) but also being unable to actively participate in normal gameplay. To me, that's just very boring.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3709876#Comment_3709876
What did you think of my change idea to make it effect swf and solo equally but keep it as a time wasting slug perk?
To be honest, I don't like the concept. I have nothing against a perk, that incentivises a killer to play more ambitious and go for multiple downs in a row like Infectious Fright. But a perk that promotes excessive slugging just for the sake of slugging isn't healthy in my opinion.
Also, 70% less healing speed on slugged survivors means they'll be on the ground 48+ seconds. That's more slowdown than Pop + Pain Res often give you and it's only 1 perk, that doesn't need a hook to activate. That's a bit much.
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We warned them when they buffed it in 6.1.0 but they wouldn't listent. Now the only thing that can be done is showing them exactly what this perk does. It's a terrible perk design that destroys even SWFs.
However, I do agree with @Blueberry that using Knockout and playing for the full team slug is not toxic. If they made sure to bleed everyone out, then that is toxic indeed but using a perk and playing to get as much value as possible out of it is disregarding everyone else's fun at worst. They do not go out of their way to make you miserable, they merely use a perk that you don't like.
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That's likely due to the current server issues and not a bug. Also, it doesn't matter where you are on your screen. What does matter is what the server decides. Hit detection favors the killer because they can only ever chase an after image of you. On their screen you might have been in the middle of the vault animation. It sucks and they try to minimise the effect but it will never go away.
On the other hand I've noticed some very weird cases of hit validation lately where I, as a killer, didn't get hits, that I definitely should have gotten judging by the information on my screen. I've seen and heard Huntress' hatchets connect without a survivor actually losing a health state and there have been many cases with hits on windows, that I definitely should have gotten on my screen (and I play on a pretty good ping) but that were validated.
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I'd say Blight is better. He has the power to win most matches, which already makes it easy to get a lot of BP with him. But you also max out on Deviousness pretty quickly because you permanently use his power, Brutality is easy to max out on as well and the Hunter category works in your favor too. On top of that, you can more easily get max hooks with Blight.
Even when you lose badly, you won't go out of a match with less than 27k BP.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3709748#Comment_3709748
I didn’t consider this, would be hilarious but over kill. Maybe add a stipulation that it wouldn’t teleport to the basement?
That wasn't what I tried to say. Just that it would be hilarious to have that happen.
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Basement Bubba would have loved this.
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Beautiful. I was worried that Xenomorph might not be bugged for a change. So glad to see it. /s
Another case for the killswitch.
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There is no use combining these 2 perks. We'll Make It does bulk of the work anyway, so that's really not a big deal. A heal with We'll Mate It saves 8 seconds. Combining it with Resurgence only saves another 3.2 seconds. Meaning 1 perk slot is almost wasted.
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It's possible but very unlikely.
The EGC normally takes 120 seconds. The decay speed however is cut in half when a survivor is put in the dying state or hooked. So you would need to somehow keep them in the match for close to 2 minutes (if they unhook immediately) before activating Blood Warden. That is very hard to do.
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@Junylar said:
Bully squads can "derank" easily by throwing a few games in a row. Since only escapes and deaths matter for survivor mmr, there are a number of ways how they can go to the rock bottom of mmr within a few hours.
They derank just by doing what they normally do. Bully the killer until they eventually win. When nobody does gens, the killer cannot lose. This is also in their best interest. Because if you do this on a regular basis but keep winning games, then chances are you are more likely to encounter a killer that can deal with it, which means you lose without actually ruining the game for them.
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Because I don't have infinite perk slots and there are about 50 non meta perks I'd run over a perk that does pretty much nothing.
Survivors don't go into lockers against Doctor anyway. And if they do, then you're not around to get use of the exposed effect. I'd rather use Zanshin Tactics, Brutal Strength, Knockout, Sloppy, Distressing, Coulrophobia, Huntress Lullaby, Infectious Fright, Coup de Grâce, Batteries Included, Agitation, Nurse's Calling (especially on The Game or Midwich), Cruel Limits, Eruption or Franklin's Demise. Perks that actually do something on him.
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I don't see much use in this buff for CoB. The entire perk only works, if you kick gens an excessive amount of times. But that is no longer possible due to the 8 regression events limit. Risking one of these to have the regression stopped only 5 seconds later isn't worth it. So it would still be an inferior version to any of the current slowdown meta perks.
It would be better than it is now but not by a lot.
Overcharge would remain a terrible perk. 150% over 45 seconds is way too little. That never happens and even if it does, the extra regression wouldn't be that great. If this is applied linear, then we're talking about 2.8 seconds extra regression over a time of 45 seconds. That's nothing.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708741#Comment_3708741
I pledge allegiance, to the stab, of any body blocking DS user. To any survivor who in doorways stand, one Chainsaw, under hook, sacrificed, with merciless camping and tunneling for all.
"So we walk eternally through the shadow realms, tunneling against evil where all others falter. May our thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on our weapons never dry, and may they never need us again."
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Free DS = Free tunnel. Their life is forfeit.
That's the sad part about DS. That it becomes a "tunnel more" perk when a killer doesn't want to tunnel. It's far from ideal but it's the only counter to the aggressive use of DS.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708898#Comment_3708898
How good Hens and Otz are matters less when you consider that in a normal game, you aren't perkless, powerless, or starting 30 seconds late.
Also, if MMR works as intended, you should be more likely than them to face that caliber of survivor. So I'm still not convinced that these perks are the sole reason killers are doing really well right now.
Also, that raw numbercrunching has never held up before, and it won't start holding up now. Game's too complex to just take base gen time and compare it to gen speeds. Killers are doing fine, they don't need yet more help.
How good Hens and Otz are matters less when you consider that in a normal game, you aren't perkless, powerless, or starting 30 seconds late.
The comparison doesn't work. That's my point. Even with meta perks you don't get the same results. BHVR would heavily nerf killers as a response, if that happened. But they don't.
Also, if MMR works as intended, you should be more likely than them to face that caliber of survivor. So I'm still not convinced that these perks are the sole reason killers are doing really well right now.
Yeah. Without meta builds you get to a certain point but that's where you cap. With meta perks you can climb a lot higher. That's why the kill rates don't climb infinitely even if a killer is buffed or killer perk.
Game's too complex to just take base gen time and compare it to gen speeds.
Not really. You cannot take basic numbers to say much about balancing, that's right. But you can definitely draw a conclusion on what is and isn't possible. And 5 minutes matches are very well possible. The shortest full match I had ever played ended in just under 4 minutes. This is the absolute maximum that survivors can realistically achieve in terms of efficiency. You do not get anywhere that level as a killer. That simply isn't how the game works.
Killers are doing fine, they don't need yet more help.
That was not my point. My point was that killer meta perks have too big of an impact on the match especially when they're stacked. With a full meta build you are so much stronger, that you demolish a team you otherwise couldn't do much against. 2 things can be true at once. Without meta perks, many killers aren't in the best spot. With meta perks however, some of them become absolutely horrible to play against and most survivor groups lose by default.
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@dbdplayerabc123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708739#Comment_3708739
If it's used so sparingly, then it would render that perk to be severely niche, just like calm spirit, and majority of the time you're throwing away a perk slot. That's why I don't think it would be that big of a deal to add a perk that offers killer instinct immunity, it could even be conditional if it makes everyone feel better.
Maybe it wouldn't be a big deal but it's against the very purpose of the killer instinct. It's supposed to be an uncounterable source of information. That is literally the only reason why it exists. So that some information is guaranteed given the circumstances for triggering killer instinct are fulfilled. Anything that is meant to be counterable is done with either aura vision or screaming.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708423#Comment_3708423
I'm a bit skeptical about how 'necessary' those perks are. IIRC, Hens and friends checked their winrate when they played 115% killers without using powers, perks or tactics, and they still won the majority of their matches.
It's possible that these perks, much like tunnelling, inflate MMR to a point where you're playing above your skill level, creating an illusion of necessity.
First off, these players are considered to be among the absolute best of the best. So comparing them to a normal player is about as accurate as comparing an average group of survivors to Team Eternal.
Second, I remember Hens' video. Did you watch that? I don't mean to shame anyone but many of these survivors were bad. There were cases in which these survivors screwed up the most basic things. Like getting mindgamed around a tile where they could see the killer at all times.
The only video (that I know of) where Otz did something similar, was the one with 30s afk and no perks. And that started this whole controversy about streamers secretly deranking (which I don't believe). But it was obvious that many of his opponents again played on a level that was way below average. I consider myself to be a fairly average player but I consistently play against people that are better than this. So does Otz on his streams.
This was also before the 6.1.0 update in which killers were buffed to a 60% kill rate overall. Otz at the time had an average of 3.65 kills (91.25% kill rate). There is no way that this painted an accurate picture.
Lastly, my own MMR can't be boosted by slowdown perks. Because I don't use them (usually). But I also know that I lose by default when survivors reach a certain level of efficiency. There is simply not much I can do when the gens are done in less than 5 minutes. Even with survivors, that really aren't incredibly there is simply no realistic chance for a killer to consistently reach that level of efficiency (which is good!).
The difference between a meta build on a now high tier killer like Billy and a good but not amazing build on a lower tier killer is night and day. No matter how good you are, there is a limit which you absolutely cannot surpass by skill alone. And because a survivor usually is the one that has to react in chase, their counterplay is built around that. So most killers can't force hits in a timely manner because then, there would be no counterplay for the survivor. This also means, that your chases cannot be infinitely fast.
30 seconds is a really quick chase. But when you factor in the time for hooking, traversing the map and starting the next chase, then it becomes clear, that 12 chases total cannot go as fast as the gens can go even if you could somehow manage to keep your chases that short, which isn't realistic to begin with.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708633#Comment_3708633
Other games don't have as many issues as DBD does.
False, digging into any Game's Bug Report section will reveal a myriad of issues. Often things the developer has never fixed. All it takes is getting familiar with a character and errors will show up. Bad designs that make people hate those characters are a thing for all games. ofc if you think all over game companies have a perfect track record and you are much more informed about flaws in Dead by Daylight, then bHVR will seem like villains of the highest caliber. But bHVR is pretty normal for a modern game developer.
As for the engine update, I don't know if you say is true or not. I just know I've seen a lot of the bugs ppl been reporting nonstop in my games as well and the photosensitivity stuff along with the other bugs has kept me playing this week. Either way, feel free to give them the benefit of the doubt but I've been around long enough that Im tired of making excuses for their poor management of this game and their programming of it.
Its not about giving bHVR the benefit of the doubt, its about being reasonable in the things I blame them for.
I cant blame them for Engine upgrades as those are ALWAYS impossible to predict, even the company that MAKES the damn engine had problems upgrading their own game FORTNITE to the new version. Its simply just unreasonable to give bHVR hell for that. You could have researched Unreal Engine upgrades, but you didn't.
While I agree with a lot of what you said, it is definitely true that DBD has a habit of breaking whenever even the smallest things are changed. This is definitely not a good sign and if the recent update is any indication it shows that DBD's code is very prone to bugs.
For the longevity of the game it is a better option to focus some more resources on looking into that and making adjustments. Otherwise, they risk gaining a reputation for breaking the game every few updates, which severely limits the amount of people that will buy their new chapters and can potentially throw off license holders in the future.
This does not mean, that they have stop making new content (for a live service game, that would be horrible) but pausing the cycle for a short time, or dialing back on some of the things they have planned to concentrate on game health is definitely an option and it should be considered.
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If that means we get the old survivor nodding back, then I support this. I want to see an Ace nod with his entire upper body.
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708406#Comment_3708406
I don't know if this is sarcasm but in case of no, survivor still get BP, not the killer. Therefore the specific 7k for an escape mentioned in the post.
This is untrue. Neither get BP in case they disconnect. For survivors however, there is a bot that replaces them and the game still tracks the bot's BP. That's why it looks as if they got their BP.
I recently had a match end because of server issues and the game displayed me as the only survivor that had earned no BP despite the dc icon on every player.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708735#Comment_3708735
People want this interaction removed so they can more easily tunnel with their blood puke on plague. That is literally the only reason as to why people would see this change, figure it was a bug fix, and then complain that it's no longer in the game, all while hiding behind "well the devs said perks shouldn't disable the killer's abilities."
The easiest and most obvious answer to "how did the devs not notice" is the devs do not play their game to the extent that they should. Case and point: the scrapped twins changes. Case and point: Blight's "nerfs" (buffs). Case and point: the new DS animation. Case and point: the eruption meta. The devs are ostensibly too busy making the game that they can't play test it themselves, and whatever QA team they do have does a very superficial check when new patches release. The fog whisperers are supposed to be the dev's gauge on the health of the game for balance, fun, and bugs, but the devs seldom listen to them. Otz can make a 7 hour long video on his proposed changes, but it's all for naught because the suggestions fall on deaf ears.
At this point, blight needs 3 dashes base kit, and nurse either needs 1 blink or a complete rework. Yes, it is unfortunate that they remain at the top, but plague is very, VERY close behind them in terms of killer snowball.
How would you determine "exactly where you need to be" is, when you've just hooked somebody, 5 gens are left, and you don't have bbq. You start patrolling gens when you have no current targets. I really hope your answer is "well I'd just proxy camp usually."
As I said, the part about DS I have no issue with. Though, I still am not happy that it hit Plague of all killers and Nurse and Blight remain untouched in that regard. I don't care what others think about this part because in my opinion Plague is strong enough that her power shouldn't also be one of the most effective tunneling tools.
The easiest and most obvious answer to "how did the devs not notice" is the devs do not play their game to the extent that they should.
I would accpet that explanation, if we talked about something that went under the radar for a few weeks. Maybe even a few months because this probably doesn't happen very often. But 5 years? We're not even talking about a killer that was completely neglected. They updated her several times and even gave her some extensive quality of life improvements in 5.3.0. That means, that they did know of the things that were wrong with Plague and they took a closer look at her again. If at that point, they hadn't noticed, then I absolutely cannot believe that this was a bug.
Apart from that, this is not a consistent change either. Flashlight saves don't deactivate her power but Headon and Blast Mine do. Why? Make it all stuns or leave it be. This will also force Plague players to use more Pain Res, Deadlock, Grim Embrace etc. because kicking a gen now has the risk that you could lose your power.
Case and point: the scrapped twins changes. Case and point: Blight's "nerfs" (buffs). Case and point: the new DS animation. Case and point: the eruption meta.
These are all things that I take as short-sightedness. They did not sufficiently consider the implications of these updates. But with Plague that's a completely different situation. It's one thing to not see potential issues but it's another not to notice a bug like this for 5 years. It probably happens rarely but it's definitely something that you notice.
At this point, blight needs 3 dashes base kit, and nurse either needs 1 blink or a complete rework. Yes, it is unfortunate that they remain at the top, but plague is very, VERY close behind them in terms of killer snowball.
The difference is that Plague is fine without her most powerful addons. She is difficult to play against but she is definitely beatable. Nurse is fundamentally flawed. Blight is in a weird spot. On some maps he is fine-ish, on others he becomes an absolute nightmare with pretty much no counterplay and will only be beaten by something even stronger (unrestricted comp SWFs for example).
How would you determine "exactly where you need to be" is, when you've just hooked somebody, 5 gens are left, and you don't have bbq. You start patrolling gens when you have no current targets. I really hope your answer is "well I'd just proxy camp usually."
You have a pretty good idea where survivors spawn (except on Haddonfield because there is no consitency on that map), so you also have a pretty good idea where the other survivors will be. Either that or you use BBQ of course (or you play Doctor, Xenomorph or Artist). This is what people usually consider a part of "game sense". You don't go walking around randomly patrolling gens.
You do not have the time to do that (unless you play something way stronger than your opponent) and you keep track of the gens that have been worked on. That's where you need to be. You never want to run around aimlessly searching gens for survivors. That is a sure way to lose every bit of momentum you built up to that point because it gives survivors free time to reset and do gens.
Something else, that killers learn very fast is that they don't want to defend 7 gens but only a minimum of 3. Which is why even when you aren't in chase, you won't go to a gen that is very hard to defend (Dead Dawg Saloon main building for example) unless you absolutely have to. Half the map is more than enough to defend already.
Basically, you, as a killer, decide where you want the match to happen and you enforce that. This is something that a Nurse, Blight (to some extend) and Spirit don't need to care about but the rest of the cast definitely needs to keep this in mind. Note that this does not mean you always play for a 3gen (although, if you have the choice, then it should be obvious) but you keep note of the gens, survivor positions and movement and resources.
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@LeFennecFox said:
I really doubt people will ever stop complaining about tunneling until DS stuns for 20s
I will tunnel through a 20 seconds DS. I'll tunnel through a 2 minutes DS before I let that dick that bodyblocks with it escape.
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@dbdplayerabc123 said:
I don't have any detailed perk ideas, but I've always wanted more survivor perks involving crows, and/or killer instinct immunity.
That's the entire point of the killer instinct though. That it absolutely cannot be countered. It's also why the devs use it so sparingly.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708710#Comment_3708710
Killer mains trying their absolute hardest to keep tunneling the most efficient strategy. Instead of actually learning how to patrol gens, improving their chase, improving their game sense. Nope, just "me killer, me tunnel."
That's not really the issue here. I honestly think that this part is completely fine. If a Plague is tunneling, then she really shouldn't have Corrupt Purge to keep the chase short on top of that. But they said before, that they were not going to do this.
And the explanation that it's a 5 year old bug is about as good as saying, that they just did it for the lols. Seriously, how am I supposed to believe that it took them 5 years to notice that it didn't actually work like that? They buffed Plague a few time since her release, so she wasn't ignored either and this has never been mentioned as a known issue.
What really makes me mad though, is that they apply this change to Plague but they're so adamant doing the same thing for Nurse and Blight. You know, the 2 strongest killers in the game that could easily have their powers put on a cooldown to reduce their tunneling capabilities at least slightly.
This was not done to combat tunneling (otherwise, they'd do it on other killers too). It is the same thing they did with hit animations on that one PTB. Because they had always intended it to work like that. Which makes no sense.
Also, "patrolling gens" is not the pro tip you think it is. That's something a killer in their first game will do. The more experience you have as a killer the less actual patrolling happens because you don't have the time for that. Instead you go exactly where you need to be and stay in chase as much as possible.
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I agree with the sentiment that slapping haste or endurance on a perk to make it better is lazy and only creates more issues but it's not like that is all the devs do when they change perks. They also have the "BHVR dev hammer of ultimate annihilation" to deal with perks that are too strong. That's what happened to Overcharge for example.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/412424/any-word-on-when-the-game-will-be-fixed
BHVR does not work on weekends, with minimal staff to do things like emergency Killswitchings only. Most of their patches come out on Tuesdays so most likely then, but with the seriousness of the strobing effect problem maybe on Monday I'd say.
Strobing has already been hotfixed. So far I haven't encountered the issue again.
For the other bugs it's hard to say. Fixing a game is much harder than breaking it and server issues are no exception. I expect something on tuesday but it probably won't fix everything.
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I've actually seen a lot more cases of hit validation recently. I'm 100% certain they changed something behind the scenes because some hits, that look like they should definitely connect on the killer's screen are validated too. I've even seen it with Huntress' hatchets. Sometimes you hit a survivor with a hatchet and hear and see the hatchet connect but the hit is validated.
Grabs have also been really wonky. I go out of my not to grab anyone now because I just get validated anyway.
Your clip looks like the server registered the hit so close after the pallet drop that it still went through. You can still be hit very early into the pallet drop animation (because pallets aren't walls and before you stun the killer, you're still vulnerable) and now both happened. With the current server problems, I reckon this probably happens a bit more frequently than normal.
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Survivor perks:
Mechanic's Ingenuity.
After being in chase with the killer for at least 90 seconds total, press the active ability button on a generator to activate Mechanic's Ingenuity. The next regression event the killer applies on that gen is reduced to 0% damage (does not add towards the 8 regression event limit however).
Unbending Will.
After being unhooked Unbending Will activates for 90 seconds. While Unbending Will is active the survivor gains 7% haste. The perk deactivates after being healed or performing a conspicuous action. For as long as Unbending Will is active no items other than medkits can be used by that survivor.
Killer perk:
Malicious Tenacity.
Hitting a survivor with a basic attack grants a stack up to a maximum of 12 stacks. Hooking a survivor inflicts the exhausted status effect on all other survivors for 5 seconds per stack and applies killer instinct on one survivor with the least hook stages for 6 seconds. This perk deactivates when a survivor dies.
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I agree with a lot of what he said here. For example, this only incentivises more slugging and Pain Res, Deadlock, Grim Embrace etc. because you don't want to risk kicking a gen with a blast mine. It won't make her much weaker but it's one of these nerfs, that are just baffling. Plague has been in this game for almost 5 years and she has received a fair amount of changes and only now have they fixed this "bug"? They never noticed, that she didn't work correctly in 5 years?
This is just like when they changed the killer's hit animation so that they would look down because "they had always intended this". I didn't believe it back then (I mean, just look at Hag's animation and tell me it makes sense for her to look down) and I don't believe it now. Instead of focusing resources on non-issues, can we maybe try to fix what's actually broken? Like the servers, visual bugs with several survivors and killers (skirtless Ada and Nemesis are a thing btw), Knight, Bubba's random tantrum, Balanced Landing, Potential Energy, rubberbanding etc.
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You think? To be honest, I haven't seen much of a difference in my survivor games. As a killer however, lots of people are really desperate to stun you with DS. My solution is tunneling. If I have to eat your DS anyway, then I have no reason not to tunnel (quite the opposite). So I tunnel more now.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708319#Comment_3708319
You dont understand OP. They are talking about the effect that wiggling is supposed to make the Killer strafe sideways when you hit the Great Skill Checks while wiggling.
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Wiggle#Succeeding_Skill_Checks
I dont know why there is even a negative effect for hitting the Good Skill Checks, but BHVR-things I guess.
@Topic:
As others have said, wiggling is only supposed to make sure that the Killer cannot get to any Hook they like. And while you think it feels like they still reach any hook they want, this is just not the case. If there would be no wiggling, they could travel way further with you on their shoulder and reach a Scourge Hook (for example) 100% of the time. The Killer will most likely still get to a Scourge Hook with wiggling, but it might be possible that they dont. And this possibility (of not reaching the Hook they want) is at least there with wiggling.
Furthermore, look at the numbers:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Wiggle#Succeeding_Skill_Checks
Good Skill Checks reduce the side strafing effect to 50% and Great only increase it to 120%, making it 20% stronger than Base. That is not much so you should not really expect a big effect from it. If you want a big effect for wiggling, you have to run Boil Over (but dont, the Perk is bad).
For why this is even a thing - back in the day wiggling was not done via Skill Checks but via messhing two buttons (on PC) and I think on Controller it was using the stick very fast. This was changed at some point since it was an annoying mechanic to do and also was not really good on the hardware, at least on console. So they added Skill Checks, including a Great Skill Check-Zone. First this achieved that you can wiggle off a bit faster if you hit the Great Skill Check (1 second total if you hit all of them), but they changed it to the side strafe-effect being stronger or weaker. (In the end even wiggling off faster was totally fine and nearly nobody complained about it, but they still felt like changing it)
So yeah, just see BPs as the main reason to hit Great Skill Checks. The side strafing-effects are not worth it. And in the end, wiggling is only supposed to limit the decision making of the Killer a bit and NOT to make you wiggle free on a regular basis.
I'd argue that on an indoor map the stronger side strafing is much better than the 1 second faster wiggling. I don't get the why the downside of good skill checks is that bad either but bringing it to 100% would feel kind of wrong because then the difference between great skill checks and good skill checks becomes negligible. Further buffing great skill checks can lead to a killer getting stuck in place though, especially in combination with Boil Over.
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So that this doesn't happen:
By the way, this was not me being toxic but 4 people with Breakout + Breakdown, 2 Background Player, 2 Headon, 4 Boil Over, 4 Alex Toolbox and 2 Petrified Oaks. I still had to play this game despite me being the only human in the match. They could dish it out but when things went south, they absolutely couldn't take it.
Bots are not a replacement for actual players. They were added, so that survivors could at least have a chance to win when someone disconnects.
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@Firellius said:
Kill rates are currently astronomical, the game could probably not survive another gen speed nerf.
I reckon that's because the combination of different killer meta perks is stronger than it should be. When was the last time you saw a killer that ran no slowdown and how did that go? The difference between Pop + Pain Res and no slowdown is so big, that you basically have to use these perks. Other than that, your match can very well end in less than 5 minutes (with the use of an exploit, 4 minutes or less).
This might be manageable for a Nurse (though even that is debatable) but the average killer absolutely cannot keep up with this. Basically we are in a weird situation where we have Schroedinger's gens, that both go way too fast and way too slow.
The current slowdown meta has way too much synergy especially on killers that are already in a good spot. Compare the time Billy or Blight will need to activate and deliver their Pop + Pain Res and compare that to Freddy, Myers, Trapper, Legion etc.
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I've also seen a few more of those. Maybe some people have run out of BP offerings and just use something else?! As long as it's not a squad with 4 x Breakdown + Breakout, it should be fine though. I've started running the backpack build on Bubba as a precaution.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
personally, i think overdrive is failed mechanic for billy. it is better to just remove it and give billy -0.5 second charge time on the chainsaw.
Strongly disagree. Overdrive is exactly what he needed. A form of complexity that makes him much less addon dependent, stronger and rewarding. -0.5 seconds charge time only helps with back revving and it absolutely falls flat in curving. That 0.16 metres you save, you easily make up for with the faster chainsaw speed.
I would however appreciate an addon to help bring back Driftking Billy. He's not dead but he is significantly weaker on most maps.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707810#Comment_3707810
invisible traps
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpCsS2NaUAAWCss.jpg
Not the buff Trapper needs, but one he deserves.
"Yo Mr. White, are we in the trap business? Or are we in the killing business?" ~ Jesse Trapman, Breaking Bear