Xernoton
Xernoton
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I'm not going back to 3 DHs per game. That's non-negotiable.
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M1 killers are horrible and the players usually know that. So, if they really wanted to win, then they might as well play a better killer. Meaning, M1 killers are usually a bit more chill because they know that they are at a disadvantage.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704025#Comment_3704025
Do we actually know that it'll have a sixty second cooldown? I don't remember if that part was in the dev update we got, or whether they talked elsewhere about that + whether the active duration/cooldown split is going to remain.
It already has a 60 seconds cooldown and because it wasn't mentioned again, we can assume that this will remain.
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@glitchboi said:
I was playing mostly nothing but Bubba a week ago and noticed survivors screaming with blood particles when chainsawing them through pallets without them getting downed. That said some of the jinxed chainsaw hits on my end didn't feel too deserved so I wasn't that devastated, but I've never had such happen with any killer when hitting through pallets probably since Dead Hard's hit validation.
Though I'm not sure how it is with other killers in terms of accuracy in this shadow testing phase of hit validation. If only there were a... replay system..
I've noticed it on Bubba too but I seem to remember that this had happened to me before, so that didn't make me too suspicious.
I have also experienced a few more reverse pallet stuns then usual where I ended up on the same side as the survivor.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704245#Comment_3704245
they also do it so the killer don't have time to switch in lightborn.
True. I had an instance in which a sabo squad didn't hide their toolboxes yesterday.
This was the result:
I switched my build as a precaution and I guessed completely right.
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Last second switchers are usually associated with bad intentions. After all, this is what many bully squads do so the killer won't dodge the lobby.
I don't defend the killer for closing their game but this might be the reason.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704033#Comment_3704033
See you think this is a killer nerf but it would be a buff in reality, you'll eliminate flashlight, firecracker, flashbang and pallet saves by implementing this, also Sabo would be gone, breakout and breakdown would be useless, killer would save time because carrying and hooking would be gone, and the only thing you can think about is you can't proxy camp the hook and make the unhook risky.........I don't want this implemented because while it sounds like it's helping it would hurt survivors
I don't think that's what op meant. Cages don't activate base kit BT and anti tunnel perks but op claims, this would solve tunneling. So they probably meant that only the teleporting part for caged survivors should be implemented without any of the positives the cages grant you. Meaning, flashlight saves would go nowhere and the killer would still have to spend all that time hooking survivors.
This is a big nerf to killers and it would completely defy the AFC's purpose. It wasn't added to stop camping but to limit the effectiveness of face camping, which it already does.
The loud noise notification for unhooks isn't a bad thing either. If you heal right there when the killer comes back then you made a decision and it backfired. So the better option is to go somewhere else. The killer will be busy getting back to the hook and now they'll either find the survivors (in which case the unhooker's job is to make sure the killer goes for them, if at all possible) or they won't and the notification does nothing.
People seem to forget that the killer doesn't only play a series of 1v1s throughout the game but a 1v4 and taking away any information they have severely limits their capacity in doing the latter, which means they have to double down on the 1v1. For that to be possible however, we'd need some stronger chasing perks, even more powerful slowdown or even weaker maps. The STBFL nerf sure didn't contribute to M1 killers having a capacity to keep their chases short.
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That wouldn't change much. The problem with Dying Light is that it's horrible in the early game, bad in the mid game and only good near the end of the game. But then you have people so close to being dead, that Dying Light becomes unnecessary. It's like Fire Up in that regard.
As a killer, you have no issues with the late game but more so with the early and mid game when you have no pressure yet and most of (if not all) the resources are still available. If you manage to get enough hooks to make Dying Light do its work, then you're already winning anyway. This whole design of building up stacks by hooking survivors doesn't work because it is the exact opposite of what is actually needed.
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I would love to hear what @GeneralV thinks about this.
Personally, I don't like the idea of his dream snares (they're just a boring knock-off of Clown's purple bottles with less utility and more weaknesses), so I hope they'll give him something else. He definitely needs something to help him out in chase but dream snares are incredibly boring and pretty unispired.
The rest of this sounds very nice. I like the idea of Dream Props very much but I think 25 is a tad much. Maybe go with 15 and see how that goes first. Also, for some reason I would really like them to add special dream hooks, that don't exist for survivors outside of the dream world (survivors could enter the dream world manually to save their team mate however).
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This on top of the 60 seconds cooldown really makes this more of a: "Check, if you are actually already where you need to be" kind of perk. That's really terrible. You either know where to go (otherwise you wouldn't be in range for it) or you use a perk that tells you. UW doesn't do that anymore. A shame really because it was the first genuinely good perk to apply Blindness and counter everyone's favorite Crutch of Opportunity.
One more perk disappearing into the void, I guess. As if we didn't have enough of those already.
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/411472/did-they-do-something-with-hit-validation
Alot of people are having the same issue me included hits not connecting even though it should have even with good ping
I'm not sure what's going on. On one hand I have had a lot of instances where my hits were validated today (to the point where I try not to grab survivors anymore) but on the other I also got a hit on a Claudette that should have never connected.
I had also never seen hatchets being validated before.
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The hatchets actually have a pretty accurate hitbox. If it was too big, it'd be impossible to throw them through small gaps and above objects. The real issues are that your character model does not fit your hitbox and the killer's ping.
Because a killer can only ever chase an after-image of a survivor, hits and validation work largely in their favor. That sometimes leads to utter extremes like the one in your screen shot. On their screen, they probably hit you fair and square.
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This has always been the case though.
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That's something I've seen cheaters do. If there is anything else fishy about them, it's fair to assume they were cheating.
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They set the precedent for removing techs for the sake of removing techs, so now I expect them to follow through. This means, that every tech no matter how much counterplay it might have has to be removed. Otherwise I can only call that a double standard.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703684#Comment_3703684
You are not giving Clown enough credit. He can turn some tiles that good players are comfortable looping complete unsafe or even free downs. The age of just pre throwing pallets is long gone, since some many safe tiles cannot just be abandoned. There is a clown main out there that wins the majority of his matches while nearly never breaking a single pallet, even at jungle gyms.
The only reason clowns lose is because he is not as fast at downing people like Nurse or Blight, but in a clown chase he is basically one of the best 1v1 characters in the game. Its just he is in a 1v4 game.
He can turn some tiles that good players are comfortable looping complete unsafe or even free downs.
Yes and he could do so for years. You don't need the addons for that.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703707#Comment_3703707
this has nothing to do with how good you play but only with how bad the survivor plays
Yeah, typical Soloq experience, if you play survivors, you have at least one of these randoms per match. Killer hooks them and all survivors are in much more vulnerable state as someone needs to unhook them and sometimes killer proxy-camps.
Defending old DH is beyond me.
I wasn't defending it, I was saying that if perk give a lot of value in exchange for very little, it is nerfed.
This happened to all of mentioned perks and I hope that this happen to: Nowhere to Hide, Pop, Grim, maybe Deadlock or other perks that give a lot of value for very little price.
—The official pick rate of DH at the time in high MMR was 75%. This is not defendable.
Something similar could be said about mentioned perks on nightlight.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DZAF75VPC9MT/image.png
This gen regression meta gives ~70% of killrate, where killers - according to BHVR - should be balanced around 60%.
Something similar could be said about mentioned perks on nightlight.
No killer perk has even close to that pick rate, which is good. We do not need to return to a statistical chance of 1:256 that any one perk is not in the game.
This gen regression meta gives ~70% of killrate, where killers - according to BHVR - should be balanced around 60%.
The problem is that you don't achieve much by only nerfing each individual perk. Because what will happen then is that the killers that don't use these specific builds but only 1 or 2 of these perks will be more inclined to run these exact combinations to make up for it. Either that, or BHVR come with the hammer and delete another bunch of perks. In which case, we'd have the problem that only Surge remains as a strong regression perk. Not the best outcome because Surge isn't all that strong and the game doesn't work without slowdown.
The interesting part is that the only build in this picture that doesn't have Pop (number 6) is the one that underperforms statistically. My guess is because these perks don't help you when tunneling. BBQ activates right when you hook someone, meaning you'll be somewhere else chasing when the unhook happens. GE only works when you spread hooks. The same goes for Pain Res. So a fair nerf to Pop and Pain Res could be to deactivate them when someone is dead. That way, they would actively discourage you from camping and tunneling.
The 1 perk that I do consider problematic is Deadlock. I honestly cannot believe that it's still not changed. It was an unhealthy perk when it released (we had the very short lived hardcore face camping play style back theen) and it's still terrible. It activates with no input from the killer's side and it cannot really be countered (other than by only doing 1 gen at a time which is already a terrible idea).
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703606#Comment_3703606
That survivor can easily react or get behind an object.
And what happens then? They are chased by the killer with immediate insta-down ability, sometimes some Meg without Distortion are getting down in the first 30 seconds of the match, you've said:
No. It's not hard, it's lucky.
It's not hard, then it's no skill. If it's lucky then it shouldn't happen in a lot of games, yet from what I've seen, survivor without Distortion is getting targeted and downed very quickly, it's just constant value, so can we even say that it is luck?
And if it's not very hard, and early-down value from lethal could be very constant (ofc not in every match), then where it is luck?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5wIX38_YOs
What I'm trying to say is that nowadays getting down in DBD doesn't require much skill so perks that require hooks shouldn't be as rewarding or should have some downsides - you previously said:
GE, Pop and Pain Res only work as a reward for the killer playing well.
When survivors have such rewarding flat bonuses for "playing well", they got nerfed and I hope this would also happen to killer perks.
Adrenaline? Nerfed.
DH? Nerfed.
Iron Will? Nerfed.
MfT? Nerfed.
We'll make it was nerfed before, but I think it would be also nerfed.Those perk required same level of skill as "playing well" on killer side.
It's not hard, then it's no skill.
It's lucky because this has nothing to do with how good you play but only with how bad the survivor plays (and sometimes a map that is good for you). The video you posted is a great example for that. Look what all of these survivors have in common.
First clip: Leon, looks in the wrong direction (towards the edge of the map and instead of running, he walks. Are you going to tell me that there is ever any situation in which that would not be a bad idea against a Billy?
Second clip: Meg opens a chest and does not watch out for the killer, that she knows is coming because she can hear the chainsaw and the TR.
Third clip: Feng does not watch out for the killer, who she hears is coming and does not even attempt to react.
Fourth clip: Tapp looks in the wrong direction and does not listen to the TR and chainsaw. He also doesn't react until the killer is already in licking distance.
Fifth clip: Claudette is afk for the first 7 seconds of the match and walks into the open. Felix is running into objects and in a huge dead zone. The latter isn't his fault but it's terrible map design and has nothing to do with Lethal Pursuer.
Sixth clip: Meg did not watch out for the 7 ft tall maniac with a chainsaw but instead sat on a gen with her back towards the middle of the map from where you know the killer is most likely going to come from.
Seventh clip: Claudette literally stands still.
Eighth clip: Cheryl is looking in the wrong direction. She knew the killer was already close because she heard the TR so there was no way he could have spawned on the opposite side of the map. Now she only needed to conclude that there were only 2 directions from which he could come from and actually look out. Also she stood still.
Ninth clip: I have no words for that Yoichi. He was bottlenecked and looked in the wrong direction, a direction from which the killer couldn't come from because there is no possible killer spawn over there.
Tenth clip: Kate was afk for 13 seconds.
Monumental mistakes in every single clip. Just keep running along the edge of the map and look out towards the middle. That is already enough to prevent all but 1 of these instances. Clip eight was the only situation in which I can kind of understand how that could happen but still, if you know possible killer spawns, then you also know that running towards shack would have been a fail safe way to avoid this.
This proves my point. If survivors play bad, then you can get an easy hit / insta down on them. But if they play good and actually pay a bit of attention, then that doesn't happen.
The nerf to Adrenaline was too much. There were 2 things wrong, that a majority of players agreed should have been changed. It countered Freddy and it healed you off hook, which means, that slugging or picking them up, then dropping and hitting them when the last gen pops would be the correct play.
Defending old DH is beyond me. The most overpowered perk in the history of DBD deserved its downfall and it's still solid. If you want to see a perk that was butchered, just look at Overcharge. Part of the reason why DH was nerfed twice was that the pick rate was still too high, when the goal of the initial nerf was to get it out of the meta because it had been in there for too long already and was grossly overused. The official pick rate of DH at the time in high MMR was 75%. This is not defendable.
MFT became the second most broken survivor perk in the history of DBD. The strongest killers didn't care about it but it sure as hell did affect any killer that wasn't at the top and it broke the core balance of the game and showed why slapping haste on different things with no input needed was a bad idea.
We'll Make It is still a very good perk and I don't see that change any time soon. It's perfectly balanced.
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There is exactly one killer that I refuse to play without addons.
Bubba without Chili is horrible. Nothing ever works.
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So Clown can use 2 addons to get the same results he'd get without them? Impressive.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703608#Comment_3703608
I never really had an issue with people "weaponizing" DS. Mainly because I then tunneled those out. I dont usually tunnel, but if you want to use your Anti-Tunnel Perk to make it as hard as possible for me to not tunnel, I will take the opportunity to win the game easier than before. But I also dont get offended if someone is doing that, because they can also play as they like, they just should not expect that others like it.
And while I would agree that removing the option to use it in an "aggressive" way would be fine, it should also be buffed in the Anti-Tunnel aspect. I see no reason why DS should have a timer of 60 seconds for example. If the Killer takes those 60 seconds to down me and can then hook me without any issue, I still got tunneled, but gain nothing from my "Anti-Tunnel Perk". You can have DS without any timer and it would be totally fine because of conspicious actions, because a Survivor who thinks it is smart to not progress the game to keep DS up for the whole game is basically the same as a dead Survivor. (Yeah, I know, people will say that the Killers time is wasted but a) this does nothing for the Survivor who got tunneled and b) this is 100% the fault of the Killer for going for tunneling AND being quite bad at playing the game)
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703643#Comment_3703643
It is the Devs fault, however, more often than not the Killer decides to tunnel when there is no need at all to tunnel. For example two days ago I went against an Alien with Dying Light while being the Obsession. I was the first one found and hooked and before I was unhooked, the Killer downed a Meg. And instead of picking her up, he came back immediatly when I was unhooked to tunnel me. At 5 Gens. Now - did the Killer need to do this? They had a fresh down, massive pressure (2 Hooks before a Gen is completed is amazing) AND they decided to tunnel out the Obsession, while equipping a Perk which would be beneficial to keep me alive (even tho, it is obviously more beneificial to tunnel).
Your bunch of Strawmans at the end does not change the fact that tunneling often happens when it is not needed at all. This was no poor Killer who had to tunnel in order to have a slim chance to win. Not even close.
I never really had an issue with people "weaponizing" DS. Mainly because I then tunneled those out.
Then DS still has an unhealthy side effect as it incentivises killers to tunnel, when they try to avoid it. Which I thought was what we wanted? Killers spreading hooks instead of tunneling.
I dont usually tunnel, but if you want to use your Anti-Tunnel Perk to make it as hard as possible for me to not tunnel, I will take the opportunity to win the game easier than before.
I get that and I usually handle it the same way but I still hate that something that is supposed to be a last line of defense is used in that way. If I wanted to tunnel, then I would do it even with DS. But in this case, I am forced to either tunnel that person out or have an even harder match because they become a human shield for their team mate.
I see no reason why DS should have a timer of 60 seconds for example.
The only reason I see for a timer at all is that otherwise you could have 4 survivors that all run around with DS active. Yes, they're not doing objectives but this still defeats its purpose as an anti tunnel perk, which doesn't sit right with me. They could give it unlimited time (or at least 90 seconds), if they changed it so that it deactivates when someone else is hooked after you had already been unhooked.
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PTB Twins were ungodly broken. Even old 3 blink Nurse wouldn't down you that fast.
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They didn't do anything about the 7 seconds cooldown between a down and switching back to Charlotte either. Also, if they're going to be bugged anyway (which I assume they will because there has never been a time when they worked correctly) nobody is going to play them regardless.
When they reenabled Twins on live servers a few weeks ago it only took me 2 games to find another game breaking bug on them.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703153#Comment_3703153
This is a common threat done by Killer Mains. Goes back years already. Whenever Survivors receive a Buff or Killers receive a substancial Nerf (which is something which happens very rarely), people say they will no tunnel or will now have to tunnel every game.
In the end they are already tunneling anyway, so who cares. In the end, 5 second DS will not be as impactful as it was before because every Killer player nowadays knows that just powering through DS is still the best play.
I don't see the harm in looking for ways to fix cases in which DS abused though. Let's say, that you are correct and it doesn't change anything, would DS become weaker if it deactivated when you take a protection hit 15 seconds or more after the unhook has happened?
I'd have no issue with buffing DS even further as long as there is a way to not have it used against you. Give it Bond's effect map wide so that you can avoid running into your team mates, pause the timer as long as that survivor is on the ground, give it a 7 seconds stun for all I care but get rid of situations in which it is used aggressively. Does that sound like enough of a compensation?
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703384#Comment_3703384
This is either the healthiest or second healthiest killer meta we've had so far. GE, Pop and Pain Res only work as a reward for the killer playing well
Nowadays killers have MUCH easier games than some patches before - gens took longer time, healing got nerfed, medkits got nerfed, CoH got nerfed. Killers got perks like Nowhere to Hide, Lethal or Ultimate Weapon - perks that give a lot of value for basically NOTHING.
What do you mean by "killers playing well". Are you trying to tell that it's hard task to chainsaw survivor with billy at the start of the match with Lethal? Or is it hard to down someone with Blight / Unknown?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3MQ2NZHYHGDM/image.png
Almost all of "most seen killer builds" (nightlight) give approx 70% of killrate and I hope that devs do something about that, because it's just silly. It's not the same game as some time ago, killers have much more in their basekit - Alien / Sadako / Unknown can teleport, Skull Merchant has haste, broken, Wesker and Blight can traverse map easily.
Are you trying to tell that it's hard task to chainsaw survivor with billy at the start of the match with Lethal [...]?
No. It's not hard, it's lucky. That survivor can easily react or get behind an object. It's not hard to know that the killer doesn't spawn right next to you towards the edge of the map, which is why any experienced survivor isn't caught off guard by this. You have a pretty good idea which direction the killer will come from and because they do not have overdrive yet, you can still react to the speed.
Blight and Unknown are definitely strong in chase but both of them have enough counterplay not to go down immediately as well.
The current meta is designed to keep the killer in chase constantly. Lethal Pursuer + Nowhere To Hide work without much effort, which allows the killer to track survivors fairly easily. This however is not how you win games. You win by chasing and downing survivors, which Pop and Pain Res further enable and reward on top of it.
That is a healthy meta. Overtuned maybe (though, I'd argue that this is only a problem on the strongest killers and not that impressive on the weaker ones) but healthy.
If we compare that to the Ruin + Undying + Pop meta or the 6.1.0 eternal gen kick meta, I know which one I prefer. On both sides. Because contrary to what is often argued, these perks don't do anything for a killer that doesn't already do something right (playing well). Winning chases in a timely manner is infinitely more skillful than just kicking a gen or getting to the gen and starting chase.
I would also argue that this is not the easiest that the killer role has ever been. That was with the 6.1.0 meta. Back then, playing killer really was easy. Because you didn't have to play against the survivors to win but just walk around kick the same 3 gens for 60 minutes.
The funny thing is that UW is so great that it's not in any of the 6 most popular builds. But hey, the devs kill it with the next patch anyway.
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Agreed. It's horrible. Although scratch marks are barely visible anyway (why has this not been changed back?).
Freddy's desaturated colors don't make it any easier to keep track of survivors in the middle of a cornfield.
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Rapid Brutality. It's a worse STBFL even after the nerf and combining both doesn't give you anything STBFL wouldn't give you on its own.
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This is either the healthiest or second healthiest killer meta we've had so far. GE, Pop and Pain Res only work as a reward for the killer playing well. Meaning, your counterplay is to stop them. The longer you last in chase, the longer it takes the killer to activate their slowdown perks and the more likely your team is to finish gens that were close to getting done before they can be stopped.
The only problematic perk out of the bunch is Deadlock. It has no downsides, it works without any input from the killer and it has no counterplay.
When the devs nerf the current killer meta (which they will eventually), then they will introduce a new meta and considering how bad this went the last time, I'm not looking forward to that.
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I hope not. This might be the most killer sided map we've seen by far. The only thing they need to do is turn up the pallet count and the map would already be much better.
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@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703173#Comment_3703173
It’s really not. There’s a clear and easy counter to it in slugging but of course everyone is like “I’m just gonna tunnel them out right off the hook it’s the only way!!”
lol no, it’s just what you want to do to punish survivors for getting a buff to a perk you hate. 🤣🤣🤣 That’s how it always is here. Anytime a survivor perk gets a buff that they don’t like people decide to punish the survivors for using it. If that’s what you’re gonna do then do it, whatever. But let’s stop pretending that you’re only doing it because that’s the “only way to counter it now” when it clearly isn’t. Own up. 😆
What is better: 1 survivor progressing the game while 1 bodyblocks, another is chased and the last comes to pick them up while the killer cannot progress their objective or 3 people on gens with 1 person going down, which triggers Pain Res + Pop and let's the killer progress? Spoiler alert: Option 1. The killer doesn't progress and they don't get their slowdown perks to activate for a while.
Even then, if you honestly think it's worse than not going for the bodyblock, then there would be no harm in fixing that in some way.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703104#Comment_3703104
I think people are still figuring out billy but hes got everything the other S tier killers have.
The main thing that used to hold billy back was his chase wasn't very good and he was very difficult, both of these things now are basically not true anymore.
His chase is now insanely strong because he can basicalyl hit you at most loops, zone you incredibly easy with his really short cooldown and he also has an insta down so he can cut chase lengths in half. He's also alot more forgiving now and it's easier to redirect his chainsaw whilst flicking or charging, the fact he can 180 now or flick 90 one way 90 back is absolutely bonkers.
Like other S tier killers, he basically has minimal weakness compared to A tier killers who usually have more noticable weaknesses. Also i think him with the lopro chains is akin to old mother daughter ring spirit, it puts him blight levels of powerful if not stronger.
Chucky im not too sure about havn't seen him a whole lot or played him alot against the best players so maybe.
I might be a little biased like from a comp perspective but the reason i have slinger and clown so high and oni lower is because slinger and clown are killers who basically get better the better the surviors they play against. You have to play these killers very well and mistakes can be very punishing but when they are played well they basically down people so fast they put surviors on a ticking time bomb, and slinger gets alot of zone, 3gen control as well as he's good at playing around unhooks.
Oni is really strong don't get me wrong but you can be significantly disadvantagd if you can't get an m1 fast, and the best surviors will basicalyl abuse bloodlust breaker pallets like shack to make it take quite a while to get an m1 unless they make a mistake or you make an outplay. In an average game he's def better but against the best survivors i think slinger and clown are more reliable.
Billy has a few weaknesses that S-tier killers usually don't have. He cannot readjust. The smallest imperfection leads to him missing and the survivor either getting to another loop or positioning themself better. He is also very weak against loop chaining. You don't get into a position to hit them with chainsaw and revving slows you down, so that they make distance on you. I have about 900 hours (a bit more than that) on him and though he has become really powerful he still has some weaknesses he cannot play around and more counterplay than any S-tier killer.
A lot of the weaknesses Oni has, Deathslinger has as well. So I don't agree with his placement. But it's your tier list and tier lists are always a bit subjective, so we can agree to disagree.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
5 second DS = everyone should get tunneled out of the game.
I’ve had so many people weaponize DS against me in the past, when I wasn’t trying to tunnel. I do not want to make that mistake again. Everyone should get tunneled right off the hook, just in case they might want to weaponize DS against me.
That's what concerns me too. If I don't have a choice, then I'll tunnel them, get through their DS and kill them anyway. I don't care, if I lose the match in the process. That person is going to die. It's the same way I deal with people that use No Mither and make themselves unhookable.
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Then there wouldn't be much point in using cages. Quite the opposite. You can camp a hook but not a cage. So cages would be a downside instead of an addition to his power. That's a bad idea.
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I'd put Billy as one of the top A-tier killers but not S-tier. I think Plague is better than Chucky too because she has the addon power on her side with a base kit that is already very strong. In order for the top A-tier killers I'd probably go: Artist, Plague, Billy (he is very strong but he has no combination of addons that reaches Plague's level), Chucky.
Deathslinger is in no way better than Oni though, is he? His time management (shooting, hitting, reloading, catching up, shooting, hitting reloading) is just horrible. On top of that there are so many loops where you can get a hit but you'll never get the down with Slinger's power as long as the pallet is still up. I'd say he is a solid B-tier killer.
Seeing Clown in A-tier just looks wrong to me. He is still fundamentally the same killer with pretty much the same weaknesses. His time efficiency became a lot better because he doesn't need to reload as often but other than that, he isn't that much stronger. I'd put him in B-tier between Bubba and Nemesis.
Lastly, I'd put Sharp Hand Joe in the lowest tier. He is a sad mess. Addon dependent, undertuned, predictable, overcompensated regarding counters and overall just not very good. Myers and Trapper both have the ability to play nasty and get better results that way but Freddy? He has nothing. For the most part he is a pure M1 killer with no power. You hook someone, they wake up. You interrupt them on a gen, they wake up, if they miss a skill check, you hit them and they're still awake thanks to the micro sleep immunity from the alarm clocks. On top of that, he has only 2 really good addons (Paintbrush should not even exist as an addon but be base kit anyway).
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Thank god they don't push Twins to live like that. Now they just need to cut the 7 seconds cooldown and allow you to switch back to Charlotte immediately after a down and fix their bugs. Then there would probably be some more Twins players.
The DS change has me in stitches. They went through the trouble of creating a new animation, didn't think about what implications this would have and remove it. I prefer that to DS being useless though.
UW is still dead. With a 60 seconds cooldown, this is just not going to work out. I mean, you go somewhere, then open a locker and either find someone you'd have found anyway because they're likely still on a gen, or you don't find them and don't have it for another 60 seconds. This is bad. Doctor's Static Blast is good because it doesn't require any more set up. You just go to a part of the map and now use it to apply madness and find survivors that might be hiding. Without having to look for the nearest locker.
I'm concerned that Haddonfield wasn't mentioned though. On the PTB the whole is an utter dead zone. The number of pallets on that map reminded of the worst versions of Shelter Woods.
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Agreed. Survivors should earn a bit more BP. Especially the objective category is weird in that regard. I get that most BP come from skill checks but if I'm unlucky and I don't get my 50k skill checks per match, then why should I have no way to even come close to get full points in this category?
@XxBloodyBaronxX said:
One solution I think of is having a BP multiplier whenever you're in a swf, being capped at 100%. 2 people would give +50%, 3 with +75%
What about solo survivors? They already get less BP on average because they have a harder time coordinating. They also make up a majority of the player base. 100% bonus BP for playing in a SWF is also a bit much. With the incentive you'd get 3-4 times as many BP as normal (depending on how it's coded). So you easily get more points for a bad game than the killer would for a perfect game.
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Welcome to the fog.
The balance is tilted in the killer's favor. Going from there, the game is balanced around average solo survivors for the most part. There are some killers that are harder to play against, which makes it harder for less experienced survivors to win against them.
100 hours is pretty much nothing in DBD. It's not even enough to have an abstract idea of what all the killers do, so it's not surprising you're struggling a lot. As a killer, you're likely matched with pretty inexperienced survivors too. Try to play both sides and watch how others play. This can teach you a lot about a killer's strengths and weaknesses.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702922#Comment_3702922
Your pokemon catching analogy is almost identical to how much dbd's tutorial provides the player. In most games, they tell you "weaken the pokemon first." How much? Until the bar turns yellow? Red? "Throw a pokeball." Can you only throw one? In most of the tutorials, the pokemon is caught on the first try. They don't bother showing how status effects affect the catch rate, they don't mention how the different pokeballs have different catch multipliers, nor do they even mention that pokemon have unique catch rates. Most of that is learned over the course of trial and error in the game, reading what the items do in game, interacting with other players, or by looking up video guides.
Showing a Meg bot dropping a pallet on a Trapper bot is a good idea, I'd say that would be a valuable addition, but I'm not sure if new players would be able to understand to loop, then throw a pallet. That would be the first time a player sees this interaction, and hearing trapper get stunned and grunt would be mildly amusing and the "reward" for throwing the pallet. I fear that this might just incentivize players to camp pallets so that they can get the "reward" of a pallet stun. There needs to be a bigger explanation that pallets are limited and create dead zones once thrown, and that looping a tile correctly is your best friend.
I will say that 99 times out of 100, prethrowing is not the correct play, but there are corner cases where it is correct. I can think of some examples on lery's and rpd that come to mind against high mobility killers or even just down long hallways when you're injured and on death hook.
I wouldn't necessarily say watching a youtube video that someone has made constitutes as "interacting with the community." Commenting on the video? Yes. Asking a question on a forum? Yes. But watching a tutorial that is made, by design, for beginner players just sounds like something anyone playing a modern game like dbd would most certainly do since "watch a youtube tutorial" is almost a go-to for anything in today's age.
They show you a short demonstration in which the wild pokemon is usually brought down to red (I think there was 1 generation that differed but I'm not sure). The tutorial only serves the purpose of introducing the core gameplay, which includes looping, not dropping a pallet when the killer is 10 metres away. More detailed explanations (like faking pallets / increasing the odds to catch a pokemon) are not necessary to start playing the game.
If the example of Meg looping the Trapper is not self-explanatory, then a short explanation like: "Meg has still a little bit of distance but will likely not make it very far before getting hit. So she proceeds to waste as much of the killer's time as possible by running around a "loop" before dropping the pallet. This allows her to extend the chase while saving resources." It's a simple explanation, that a beginner should understand too. Although, they might want to find a better way to phrase this as it's literally just the firs thing I came up with.
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That would never work. Even in a casual game mode you need some kind of matchmaking. Otherwise it's purely stomp or get stomped, which DBD already has a problem with. Also, older versions of the game would not have the solo queue HUD, AFC, anti 3gen mechanic, base kit BT etc, which are all huge quality of life improvements. Not to mention depending on how far back we go, killers would have different action times too.
With this, you'd likely have the most sweaty people stack the most unbalanced things and queue up in the casual queue where they can then win 100 games in a row against absolute beginners. Picture Starstruck Nurse on Midwich (with potentially up to 7 blinks depending on which version of Nurse we use) and old flashlight bully squads with insta blinds. Would you want any beginner players to have to face that? I certainly don't. Because this is really demoralising.
2 seperate queues is not a bad idea but you'd need special rule sets for both of them to ensure the games stay competitive / casual without anyone abusing the system.
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Play → Play Survivor → Ready → Wait for a lobby → Ready → Load into the game.
Congrats. You're now playing a solo queue game.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702707#Comment_3702707
The problem with a tutorial explaining everything is 1) depending on changes to the game, it will require updating, and 2) most people don't like long tutorials. Sure the devs can implement a 2 hour long tutorial, explain every situation and what to do, but that is ignoring how every trial and every looping situation can be modified by what killer you're against, what perks are being run, etc. It would just be too much.
I'm not saying the devs do a fantastic job with this currently, but it's a fool's errand to attempt such a thorough tutorial that encompasses everything in an ever changing and expanding multiplayer pvp game.
This is one of the things that the community does infinitely better than the devs ever could. Want to know how flashbang works? Watch a YouTube video. Want to learn how to play singularity? Watch a YouTube video. Anyone can search anything they'd like and have multiple tutorials supplied to them. The only issue is that a player has to both know they are lacking skill in a specific area and care enough to look up how to improve.
The core gameplay loop hasn't changed in about 6 years and I doubt it will any time soon. Even if it did, then it would be the dev's job to update the tutorial. You know, the way they did it with the AFC for survivors.
A tutorial should teach players about the most fundamental aspects of the game. Dropping pallets when the killer is nowhere near you isn't such a thing. They could easily add a short sequence in which you see Meg looping the Trapper around small loop for a few seconds before dropping the pallet on his head. That is not too much of an effort for an experienced team but it would definitely demonstrate a core gameplay element. It also wouldn't make the tutorial much longer.
A tutorial being long doesn't mean it does a good job. Neither does a tutorial being short. That depends on how much and how well it actually teaches to new players. In pretty much every game I have played, they had a tutorial section that included a 30 seconds sequence (mostly less) that showed core gameplay elements step by step. I mean, even in Pokemon you always have some random guy teaching you how to catch them. It takes about 10 seconds and though it's annoying for people that already know (in which case in DBD people would simply skip the tutorial), it does a fantastic job introducing players to that mechanic.
I get that they can't teach people everything in a short tutorial (there are way too many mechanics for that) but at least it shouldn't teach them mistakes, which dropping a pallet when the killer is 10 metres away definitely qualifies as. The same could be said for going into a locker right next to the hook (although, the game demonstrates Meg getting found, so I guess we can let that slide).
The problem with leaving this to the community is, that someone that just tried the game for the first time will likely not engage with the community yet. After all, they haven't even decided, if they like the game yet. Which is why it's so important that the tutorial introduces the most basic gameplay because otherwise, they'll have to make that decision without actually understanding the game, which means they'll waste a lot of time if they decide later on, that it's not their kind of game.
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Killer perks:
Overcharge. It was terrible, then they overbuffed it, then they nerfed, it then they nuked it and now it's worse than nothing. Good job, devs. Real successful way to make more perks viable and change up the meta. We're pretty close to the pre 6.1.0 killer meta again.
CoB. Got nuked too. It wasn't an issue prior to 6.1.0, so I don't think it was an issue after 6.1.0 either. But the combination in the meta back then made it problematic.
Predator. This is pretty self-explanatory. A perk that is worse than nothing because the only upside is actually a downside is terrible design.
Bloodhound. I don't even have the words for this garbage perk.
Leverage. Maybe I could see this perk being good, if it wasn't active for only 30 seconds after getting a hook.
Alien Instinct. It's a worse BBQ and because it also applies the oblivious status effect the survivor is warned that it is in play.
Beast of Prey. This is on a whole new level. "Bad" doesn't even begin to describe it.
Oppression. 80 seconds cooldown. That is almost an entire gen.
Overwhelming Presence. Outside of specific dedicated builds on The Game, it's useless.
Remember Me. It's completely obershadowed by No Way Out.
Survivor perks:
This Is Not Happening. What a perk. What a perk indeed.
Weaving Spiders. Invocation perks were already dead on arrival. This is sad.
No Mither. Yeah... No.
Quick Gambit. It might work on The Game but other than that it's terrible design. When the killer is on you, you should be nowhere near your team mates, so the very concept is flawed.
Solidarity. Good idea, bad execution.
Second Wind. It's simply undertuned.
Teamwork perks. Dead concept.
Up The Ante. It's only useful in one specific build and that build isn't exactly something you can use in solo queue.
Visionary. Why would I run this instead of Deja Vu?
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The funny thing is that you counter all of these perks by simply playing the game. When the killer kicks a gen, you make distance. When they go after you, you delay them as much as possible. The better you are in chase, the longer it will take for them to activate Pain Res + Pop and the less use they will get out of them. Lethal Purser is countered in the same way. You presume the killer has it and stay on guard as the match begins to not give them free hits.
If it's an insta down killer you start spreading out immediately, so that they don't start slugging you.
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Every single one of you guys should know that I hate…
Peanut butter.
Jokes aside, the community really isn't as bad as some say. I like discussing different ideas and opinions with you people and for the most part we keep it rather respectful.
As for the game, it's something special. Clearly. If DBD was just some ordinary game we wouldn't have as many extremely passionate people in this community. It's not the same game that I fell in love with 3 years ago (I would really like to go back to that time for a week or so) but it's still fun. I've been getting into different killers lately and it keeps the experience fresh. I just hit my first hatchet from the ground on a survivor working on the gen on top of the main building and I'm still gloating.
As for the future, I want to be optimistic, really I do, but it's not easy when you see things like PTB Twins and millions upon millions of bugs or the sudden rise of complaints about SBMM again. I wish the devs were a bit more let's call it mindful of these things.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702649#Comment_3702649
In the most mechanical sense it is how the game works. Press this button to drop the pallet.
That's what the tutorial shows you, mechanically how to drop a pallet.
Maybe more tips on when best to use it could be included but that's not really the tutorials job.
For example
- It tells you how to unhook someone but doesn't advise on how long to wait before attempting a rescue.
- It tells you what button to press to swing and lunge but doesn't tell you how to time lunges to maximize hit chance or how to move while swinging in order to catch people who 360.
- I tells you what killer heartbeat is but not when is it best to flee when you hear it.
Do you see the point. The tutorial demonstrates the mechanics of the game, after completing the tutorial you should be able to mechanically play the game. Knowing how to activate each mechanic and what it does… how best to utilize those mechanics is a learned skill through experience of gameplay.
A good tutorial doesn't only explain what the buttons do. Anyone can learn that by opening up the control settings. The tutorial's job is to explain how the game is played. And dropping a pallet when the killer is 10 metres away sure isn't it. That's like if the killer tutorial had a part in which you'd completely ignore a trapped survivor as the Trapper and go for someone else on the opposite side of the map.
Even the unhook example you brought up is done correctly. The killer leaves and now the Meg unhooks you. She doesn't run in their while the killer is still right next to the hook.
The other 2 points are always evaluated on a case by case basis. But it's never the right move to drop a pallet when the killer is so far away from you and you'd get a guaranteed stun just by waiting for a few seconds.
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Most killers are fine on that map though. It's not the best map for killers in general but it's very much bearable. Blight and Hillbilly are pretty much alright on it (although you need to use specific routs for max distance), Bubba can very much play around the clutter because the collisions aren't quite so terrible and Huntress can throw over or through a lot of gaps.
Singularity not working on a map is not really a flaw in map design but in power design. They messed up with Singularity when it comes to slipstreaming survivors. You can't mark them even when only their foot is behind a wall or rock.
Scratch marks are an issue on their own. They are supposed to help the killer track survivors that they can't see but often times you have to rely on hearing them or on LoS directly because there is no way to follow the scratch marks. The worst part is, that it didn't used to be this way. A few years back scratch marks were so bright and thick you could always keep track of them, which should still be the case as it's literally an accessibility feature. Someone that can hear survivors won't rely on scratch marks because they can locate them behind walls.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702504#Comment_3702504
The tutorial simply shows how pallets work, how best to use them and when is a learned skill.
If the tutorial doesn't tell you how the game fundamentally works, then it's a bad tutorial and in this case, this is not how the game works. Instead of telling new players to drop pallets whenever the killer is around them, how about we teach them to actually look out for them in chase and stun the killer?
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I like it but what do you get out of this? If it's only a rank with no real function then I don't see many people changing their play style.
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Plague - She is sick.
Chucky - It's past his bed time.
Laurie - Because she's the Sole Survivor.
Hag - She Ruins every party.
Skull Merchant - Nobody likes Skull Merchant.
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Killers should be fully functional without addons. If an addon becomes a necessity instead of an option, then that's an issue.
However, bad killers should not be balanced by overpowered addons and vice versa. All killers should have a variety of useful addons, that don't break them. If the killer is too strong to have good addons, then maybe their base kit needs some adjustments.