Xboned
Xboned
About
- Username
- Xboned
- Joined
- Visits
- 601
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Mochan said:
Survivor is loads of fun. Loads of frustration too. But of a different kind from killer.
You've only been through half of what the game, would be a shame if you lost steam now. And if you found Survivor to be more fun in general (it's really less stressful as long as you aren't frustrated by getting facecamped and tunneled all the time, which is a real issue) the first thing to remember is that Dying is Fun. Think of the game as a Rogue-Like. You're not supposed to survive most of the time.
Once you've gotten that out of the way, learn to focus on one of either two playstyles for now: either Looping or Stealthing.
Looping you're familiar with as Killer. Just do it in reverse. Learn the loops and how to run them and you'll go a long way as survivor. I personally don't find this very fun so I never got good at it. But your mileage may vary.
Stealthing is where the game is at for me. When stealthing I don't mean cowering like a coward in a corner. The most satisfying moments of this game are when you are right beside the killer and sneak right past him, crossing that very narrow line between life and death. They are very few and far between, but they are the ultimate joy.
As a stealth player you'll need to learn how to sneak around properly and how to juke. Your experience as a killer teaches you how killers think, so you'll better be able to predict and mindgame the killer to do your jukes and evasions.
The perks you'll be focusing on are different for both sides as well. In general, these are the perks you'll want to get:
Looper: Dead Hard, Balanced Landing, Lithe, Adrenaline
Stealth: Spine Chill, Urban Evasion, Fixated, Iron Will, Quick and Quiet
Perks Every Survivor Needs: Borrowed Time, Inner Strength, Decisive Strike, Bond
I appreciate the thoroughness of this post, thank you.
I'm not sure whether I fall into the looper or stealth role yet. I enjoy both, it's quite satisfying to slam dunk a pallet on a giant creepy dude's face as he tries his best to murder you. Knowing that I'm annoying killers in the way that I've been annoyed is also entertaining. It also feels very David King-y to engage the killer in full COME AT ME BRO mode.
But it's also nice banging out generators while the killer wanders around like an idiot on a fruitless patrol. And it's a huge spike of adrenaline to be crouched in a corner or behind a short wall and have them come this close to spotting you, but miss and give up.
I'll take a look at those perks. I've been clinging to WGLF due to the crutch status of BBQ on killer, but I'm not sure the survivor version is quite as essential.
-
@GrootDude said:
Get small game is some good advice, makes totems useless (to an extent).
I'll probably give that a go. I'm happy to cleanse totems whenever I find them, but finding them has been a bit of an issue. I still don't have map layouts quite memorized and since I'm in potato ranks, I feel like I'm often the only one doing gens.
The points you get for cleansing are great, though I have mixed feelings about those points coming from the Boldness category.
-
As others have said, I like that she's a little repulsive now. I personally am not a big fan of killers being waifu material. Not to say that they designed her wrong or that people are wrong for liking her design, it's just not my thing.
-
@Manquiwito said:
Low tier killers generally all they need is more time. Adding an early game mechanic, like the one with "gas canisters to generators", in replacement of ruin and nerfing top tier killers accordingly, would not overbuff any killer in specific and ended up breaking the game.
I love this idea and have had similar thoughts in the past. The Left 4 Dead model could work, but I also like the idea of scrounging for parts in general.
Having to find gas, spark plugs, etc. would keep survivors moving around the map and risk exposure. It would also guarantee that gens don't immediately get popped just because the survivors spawned together and someone had Prove Thyself and a toolbox.
While I doubt we'll ever see that in this game, I think it would be awesome.
-
@meatisadelicacy said:
So SO SO many games I have an injured teammate who stops playing. Today I did three out of the four gens. I didn't want to do the fifth because I knew my teammate was just hiding, doing nothing, and waiting for me to finish it or get killed trying. After literally 10 minutes of watching my teammate (thanks, Bond) do nothing, I got a gen to about 60% done and shockingly, the killer found me. She had been camping hatch and didn't move a muscle to save me on my first hook. I am just so tired of teammates too scared or too selfish to do anything and constantly getting rewarded for it.
I'm sorry you've had such negative experiences. 😥
I main killer but I've been thinking about seeing how the other half lives lately. Not gonna lie, this is a little discouraging. Not all that surprising, though, if weighed against my experiences in other multiplayer games.
I hope you have better luck and less depressing teammates.
-
I consider it a net gain for non-meme builds. Knocks the usefulness of M&A down a peg, too. I appreciate the option of an extra perk slot even though I may still run it sometimes.
-
I like this game for the most part, though I do have to take regular breaks from it.
I feel like it has some serious identity issues. It's part survival horror (low rank play), part high speed twitch PvP (high rank play), part old school RPG (progression systems). I don't feel like any of those parts actually get along with any of the other parts.
If this is supposed to be a fast-paced, skill-based game, then the whole notion of gatekeeping through long grinds is out of place. If this is supposed to be a survival horror, constant high speed chases and killer-bullying should not be a thing.
When I read forums or guides, it's common to see experienced survivors laughing at "immersed" newbie survivors for being too scared of the killer, always sneaking and hiding, etc. That makes me sad, because I feel like the game's competitive aspect often overwhelms its survival horror aspect.
But I still like it and I still play it on a semi-regular basis, and I will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future. It's not perfect, but it is unique.
-
@Hex_Stalk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/746525#Comment_746525
Is it REALLY that big of a difference?
It probably ain't, I don't really know because she seemed too easy for me, no challenge or strategy required. Never bothered playing as her.
It's kind of odd that you downplay the significance of the changes in this thread while starting a "RIP Nurse" thread and saying "Good riddance" in it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/94080/rip-nurse#latest
-
-
Probably no, because I think an excessive focus on gore is one of the worst things to happen to horror as a genre.
But if it was really well done, maybe. It is a bit strange to watch the Demogargle slurp on a survivor's face and have no real effect on them.
-
@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747687#Comment_747687
Heck yeah! It seems to me, anecdotally -- and I MUST STRESS that I have no data to back this up, and this is based entirely on my own personal observations -- that some Bloodweb perk nodes seem to "prefer" perks that you have already gained 1-2 ranks in. In other words, if you buy a perk, the game will offer higher ranks of that perk to you in the next Bloodweb or two.
What kind of endgame build are you finding success with? I use my cookie-cutter BBQ / Ruin / Pop Goes the Weasel / Whispers build on Freddy at the moment.
I'm happy to say that I ended the night's session at level 47 Freddy and rank 3 BBQ unlocked, which is a nice improvement from level 39/0 BBQ. You may be onto something with regards to the bloodweb wanting to "complete" perks.
My endgame build mostly revolved around Blood Warden and NOED, but that hasn't really been panning out. Either I crush the survivors before the exit gates power up, or they're so well-coordinated that it doesn't matter. NOED cleansed, gate at 99% to avoid Blood Warden until the last second. Too many groups of all red ranks late at night.
My other build is close to yours, only I don't have Pop because I hate playing Clown, and I missed it when it was in the shrine, so it's BBQ/Ruin/Whispers/???. Now that I've actually gotten everything I was after on Freddy though, it might be time to sink some BP into the wheezy bastard. I hate not having Pop, it seems like such a crucial regression tool.
You know me, this is usually where I'd start to complain about the grind, but hopefully this should be pretty manageable from here.
@NoShinyPony said:
Rank reset is close, so I'd say stick to Freddy for the remaining days. After rank reset you can try your other killers again.
Also: Don't feel bad for dodging certain lobbies. There really is no sense in playing a game with 3 toolboxes if you don't bring a mori. That's just the current imbalanced state of the game and not your fault.
Thanks, I appreciate that. I've tried very hard to be a decent killer in all respects. No tunneling, no camping (until the gates pop anyway), no DCs or lobby dodging. Still no DCs so far, but it's getting to the point that, yeah, unless I want to go full tilt it's probably best to avoid certain games.
-
@Rydog said:
Also, how many teachables do you have unlocked? If it's not that many, you're gonna have an easy time getting BBQ once Freddy hits 40. The extra perks in the Bloodweb at 40+ really makes a difference.
Okay, you were right. I got rank 1 BBQ at 40 and rank 2 at 41. Would have liked that a long time ago, but now it's here and I'm back to making proper bank.
I shifted over to an endgame build per the advice of @DudeDelicious and that's been pleasant, too. Tones down the sweat factor significantly and I much prefer it to Ruin. I still do my best to keep the gens from popping, but I no longer feel my heart rate climbing with each completion notification.
Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen. The worm has turned.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747499#Comment_747499
It’s one his hardest skills to learn, as it requires some pretty good judgement on your spacing between you and the survivor you are chasing (am I too close? Am I too far? Should I commit to the teleport? Should I try to trick them?). And then if you do fully commit to the teleport you need to be able to quickly orient yourself and regain your bearings. Works best when chasing sleeping survivors because the non directional lullaby means they’ll have no clue where you have reappeared (unless they see the gen and blood spewing, in which case you try to mind game them into changing direction)
I'll work on those skills some more. I admit that I can still be kinda disoriented by gen teleports, there's definitely a lag of one or two seconds when I first make the jump while I try to figure out what the hell I'm looking at. There are definitely times I notice myself feeling like I'm not teleporting aggressively enough.
I'll be sure to check out those uploads, I'm always looking for ways to improve.
@themirrortwin said:
It depends on what your goals are, and I deeply sympathize with what you are talking about. In purple ranks and especially red ranks, you really feel what it is like playing against good survivors. It is very challenging and when you play killers you're not super familiar with you definitely feel it worse. I remember my goal was to reach rank 1 as killer. I climbed to about 4 with Clown and felt so stuck. To finish off the last set of ranks, I switched to Spirit and did it. After reaching rank 1, I started playing all Killers again and slipped down to 3, but found that even with Clown it isn't terrible at red ranks (most of the time, haha). In other words, I believe it is possible to achieve red ranks with weaker killers (it just takes a muuucccchhh longer grind and luck).
That being said here is my honest advice: If your goal is blood points, play killer until it feels like you aren't earning enough (or that it is too much work) then switch to survivor. Your games as killer will really help you be a good survivor. Not to fear, rank reset comes on the 13th (and every month). When it does, make sure to spend those first few weeks playing everyone you like. By the end of the month, play to your strengths. Stick to this strategy and you'll be fine on BPs.
That's logical. We're only a week out from reset, I might as well see how far I can ride this. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
Sounds like you’ve got the right idea with Freddy.
Only advice I’d provide is to either go full on end game build or full on stall build.
And absolutely invest the time into getting good at using/judging a mid chase gen teleport or mind game them into thinking you’re going to in an attempt to have them turn around right back into you. You can end chases pretty damn fast doing this.
Oh yeah, that's big brain stuff. I haven't pulled one of those off yet but it's definitely on my to-do list.
I was running NOED + Blood Warden for a while before I got Whispers to tier 3. It was pretty damn strong when I used it, but I kind of hate using NOED. It feels cheap and gimmicky. That said... I'm finding it harder to be a gentleman killer as I face increasingly serious players on the other side. I might start getting nastier as the opposition does.
-
@Rydog said:
Also, how many teachables do you have unlocked? If it's not that many, you're gonna have an easy time getting BBQ once Freddy hits 40. The extra perks in the Bloodweb at 40+ really makes a difference.
Uhhh... hm. Monitor and Unnerving from Doctor, BBQ and Ruin from shrine, then the two I've unlocked so far with Freddy while leveling.
I'm okay with continuing to grind on Freddy, I have a good time with him and I really want that BBQ, but I apparently made some mistakes early on by letting the Entity gobble up trash perks in the bloodweb. I thought I would have better luck if I got through each level of the web as cheaply as possible, so I bought all the common/uncommon stuff I could and let the rest get chunked.
And that's how I ended up getting Monstrous shrine like 5 levels in a row.
You're probably right that my luck will clear up once I get past 40, though.
@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/94190/a-personal-dilemma
I don't get too bent out of shape about rank. For what it's worth, you and I once again seem to be in a very similar boat; I'm a usually-green-but-currently-purple rank killer, and my mains are Nightmare and Spirit.
I like using dailies to practice other killers, but I usually stick to my mains otherwise. But if I want to play a game with an underdeveloped character, I don't worry too much. I know I'm good enough to make up any lost pips with my mains. If I were in your shoes progress-wise, I'd be putting all my resources into getting BBQ on Nightmare.
And, don't look at it as being "carried" to a rank you don't belong in because of the killer you use. You're being carried by your own proficiency, because you're good at playing that character. Give yourself more credit, no impostor syndrome allowed. :D
I do notice rank, I must confess. I usually try not to care too much about it, but I can tell whether I'm playing noobs, pros, or in-betweens pretty quickly. Stomping noobs is no longer fun due to lack of challenge, but going against pros can be quite stressful because I haven't been playing long enough to know every map inside and out like they do.
I hear what you're saying, though... point taken.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
Can you give us an idea of your approach or strategy?
Contrary to popular opinion since the rework, Freddy still remains a hard killer to use in terms of taking full advantage of his kit and versatility.
Patrol gens until I find someone, hook them, go back to patrol unless there are more nearby. Use teleport to reach far ends of the map and awkwardly placed generators, or use it to bait people off a generator when I know they're on it.
Drop lots of snares all the time for points, trap loops to make them unsafe, etc. Be sneaky AF since awake survivors can't see me well and the lullaby, IIRC, has no directional sound in the dream world.
Build is Fire up/Ruin/Blood Warden/Whispers, on account of me not having many teachables unlocked. I get a decent number of kills most games, it's rare that I don't get at least 3, I just have to work for it.
My problem isn't really with Freddy, it's the opposite. If I play games at this rank with any other killer, it goes pretty poorly unless I resort to playing dirty. Fredward just has so many tools to mess with survivors that I'm able to keep them on the back foot.
Like if I play Bubba, they see me coming from a mile away. If I play Myers or Doctor, I eat so many pallets I crap particle board. Freddy's mix of stealth, mobility, and control is awesome... so awesome that I highly doubt I could keep this streak up on any other killer.
Except maybe Spirit, but no thank you. The most I've done with her is buy a kimono to cover her ass.
-
I like the buffs to stealth killers, I'm relieved that Nurse didn't get entirely dumpstered.
That's about it.
-
I'm genuinely excited for this change and I don't say that about many changes.
-
I'm already quite annoyed with all the unplayable killers I bought because I haven't had time to level them all, lol. The last thing this game needs is another grind, imhfo.
But people seem jazzed about it, even if I have no idea why, so more power to them.
-
I don't play Nurse regularly but I do hate add-on dependent killers.
I want to level every killer and unlock all their perks, I literally can't afford to play add-on dependent killers because I can't keep sinking BP into their bloodweb if I want to spend it on other killers.
-
@Rydog said:
Are you guys just not capable of creating systems that don't require reading a wiki to understand? Judging from the blog post, the new Archives feature is needlessly overcomplicated, just like the emblem system, and the entire per-character unlock process for perks.
Are these things designed by DESIGNERS, or are they designed by engineers who have no firm grasp on how normal, non-technical human beings parse things? I feel like there's an Office Space joke in here somewhere.
(Also, I know people are going to knee-jerk call me dumb, but again I say this is not very good UX design. Pretend you know nothing at all about DBD, and think of how much reading you would have to do in order to have a firm grasp on basic systems, and/or how baffling it all sounded the first time a friend tried to explain it to you. It's not approachable or friendly for anyone who isn't already knee-deep in it.)
Counterintuitive Rube Goldberg machines seem to be standard operating procedure around here.
-
Billyubba. He zooms across the map with his chainsaw out, twirling and squealing the whole time in a whirlwind of death.
-
If I feel like the last survivor has real star power, sure. Whether due to being an exceptionally helpless and innocent noob or fighting for their lives with all they've got.
If it's a lady survivor and she's outlasted everyone else while not being toxic... I think horror movie rules do indeed say she gets away. I think it's the Strode rule.
-
STREAM SNIPER
A deep bond with the Entity unlocks potential in one's Aura-reading ability. All streaming players will have their auras revealed and gain the Exposed status effect for the duration of the match.
-
I'm a killer main and I support this message.
-
All you need is know about this discussion is that the OP once started a "nerf Clown" thread.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/11719/the-clown/p1
-
@aazimuth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/716236#Comment_716236
Why should a survivor be punished though for being able to loop the killer, if the killer can't catch you after quite a while you shouldn't be punished for playing well.
Because that killer has anti-loop tools designed to punish survivors for trying to draw out chases. Freddy isn't the first with an anti-loop mechanic, his is just the first one that works reliably due to the same factors that lead people to say it's OP.
If Trapper or Hag put down a trap at a loop in mid-chase, the survivor sees that and they move on to the next loop. It actually hurts these killers to do that because the time they lose setting the trap is greater than the time they gain by breaking the loop.
Clown's got some good anti-loop but it ends once he runs out of bottles. Reloading takes so long and slows him down so much that you can easily leave him in the dust.
Freddy's ability to break a loop while chasing makes it an actual punishment for the survivor to be forced out of it because he doesn't lose momentum. When I play the Fredster, I honestly get more use from my snares driving survivors out of safe loops than actually snaring them. I tend to catch the squishies between loops more frequently than at them.
-
@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/739595#Comment_739595
Mori
Keys
Insta-heals
OP Killer Add-ons (looking at Prayer Beads, omegablink, iridescent hatchets, etc)
I have issues with most of this stuff as well. The arms race has gotten out of hand, we need an armistice of some kind.
-
I don't think it's something that can be fixed with punishment. I think there should be punishment for it, but I think there should be rewards for not doing it.
I personally would put in a BP reward for completing a game. I think one of the reasons survivors are prone to DCing is that they lose a lot of points if they don't escape, so if it looks like you're going to die or have a bad match... might as well move onto the next one.
-
@FreddieGibbs said:
Dunno if this is the right place to post, but I feel that I have to share the chat here after a game I just had. Names other than mine blanked out to not namecall.
I appreciate the "YUP" written in at the top.
People like this tell on themselves more than they realize, I think. The more verbal battery acid they spew, the more they're saying about themselves.
-
I had my first unpleasant surprise from a key user last night, myself. SWF, corn map, you get the idea. Lots of running back and forth, trying to be everywhere at once. Thankfully I was playing Freddy and teleported around like a boss, but it still got pretty sweaty.
3 dead and hatch stomped, feeling pretty good. Go to chase the last Meg standing, then I guess she pops the hatch right back open. Oof. Didn't even know they could do that.
Still a 3k out of a tough game, so not all bad, but what a nasty little twist. I'll be taking keys seriously from now on.
-
I lost it at "spirit furry", sorry.
As a killer main, I suppose I'm expected to get mad and argue about something? I'm not sure what I would be arguing against because I'm not sure what the point here is.
-
@janemain23 said:
So I'm playing Jane, pretty normal game with a prayer beads spirit and I was I guess a little too toxic running her around like for 2 gens and I got downed and tunneled and camped I a die. I got messaged that I was reported for bringing a toolbox I didnt use and for being in a swf this happens ALL THE TIME. help.
It seems to me that a lot of the players who get off most on the power of the killer role are the least equipped to handle the stress that comes with it. I know it's been a challenge for me to keep my composure when I feel games are getting away from me. I don't always succeed, especially when there's the added factor of BMing SWF groups, but I think that's why some killers might be especially touchy about the subject.
Ultimately, it's embarrassing to go from "big scary killer" to "absolutely helpless". There will always be some people who take the easy way out, emotionally, by grabbing any excuse or accusation they can to throw at you.
-
@Unicorn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/738337#Comment_738337
If you dont mind, I'd like to screenshot your last two posts and send it to him on Playstation? I feel like him reading these tips will help a lot.
Certainly. :) Happy to be of service.
-
@Unicorn said:
I like Nurse. Its as if she's trying to put us out of our misery.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/949/L1NQ9O5FWJG7.jpeg
"Shh, shh.. go to sleep darling. I will not let the entity torture you anymore."
💜
Ditto, my favorite moris are the ones that say something about the killer's character. Nurse is oddly tender in the way she murders people.
-
@Unicorn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/738313#Comment_738313
I try to be ^.^ 💜
But Predator does sound very newbie friendly especially with tracking, I did hear him mention a lot of losing sight or a survivor disappearing on him his first few games. I believe he was playing the Doctor because (whispers) I recommended him D: I should've just came here first. Lol
I'll make sure to mention the disclaimer about how it can slow down his progress when it comes to the objective of pressure though. Thank you again!
Yep, that's why I recommend Wraith. Finding targets and sticking to them is going to be a newbie killer's biggest challenge, Wraith's power, perks, and add-ons are all about those things.
The specific downside of Predator tightening scratch marks is that, although it makes them into a much clearer trail, it pulls them in. That little patch of scratches appearing offset on a wall or a tree can make a big difference to an experienced killer and you won't get them while using the perk.
Wraith is the only killer that has legit training wheels on their kit. You'll want to kick them off eventually, but they're great for learning the fundamentals.
Doctor's actually not a bad choice, you can find people just by wandering around in treatment mode at the start of a match, but there's more to juggle and be aware of. Once your dude gets a handle on the basics, he'll be able to play anyone he wants.
-
Aren't you sweet? A pleasure.
His two tracking perks, Predator and Bloodhound, help in addition to his base toolkit. Predator shouldn't be used for too long, its effects can ultimately be counterproductive, but it helps make scratch marks much more coherent and easy to follow for newbies.
Bloodhound, especially with Sloppy Butcher, will make it easier to track blood. He also gets a common add-on, "The Hound", that makes blood even easier to spot. Like Predator, shouldn't be used for too long as it will inhibit development of the player's own tracking skills, but it really helps to get the basics down at first.
-
I personally would recommend Wraith. His power is simple to use, scores lots of BP if you can land a hit after cloak, and it's easy for him to track and find survivors. He's also free.
There many killers better suited to more specific strategies, but for getting to know the basics of killer, he's the one I'd go with.
-
I'm not sure if it's sudden, it seems like it's been building for a while, but it's definitely reached a fever pitch.
From the outside looking in, as someone who doesn't play Spirit or survivor, it seems like it's because Spirit flips the game on its head. Typically, killers chase after survivors, hoping they'll make a mistake. With Spirit, it's the opposite. Survivors rely on the killer making mistakes because they don't have enough info to make informed counterplays.
Against good survivors, most killers have to bait out mistakes. Make them commit to something they shouldn't, draw them out of a safe spot, etc. Hiding the red stain is one of the most basic examples.
Spirit doesn't seem like she really needs to bother with any of that. She just uses her power, instant mindgame. It's like getting stealth ganked in a MMORPG, people get uniquely furious because they feel like there was nothing they could do.
That's my take, anyway.
-
1: Hag
2: Legion
3: Clown
4: Nurse
5: Plague
-
Freddy.
Honorable mention to Huntress.
-
I was running NOED + Blood Warden until I got Whispers 3 on Freddy. It's a powerful but scummy combo, and I was glad I only had to use it once. Even then, the exit gates were at opposite ends of the map so it only ended in 1 extra kill. I'll probably keeping using Blood Warden until I finally get BBQ on him, but I tossed NOED the second I could.
NOED is a crutch. I won't say it "rewards killers for failing" as I think that's a garbage mindset with no basis in reality, game's not over until it's over, but it definitely lets killers get kills they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I run it most on my low level killers and ones that I don't have much experience with precisely for that reason.
The moment I become comfortable with a character's toolkit, it goes. There are times when I've been grateful to get a kill with NOED, but there's never been a time when I was proud of it.
-
Spirit is my least favorite killer for multiple reasons and I wouldn't mind seeing her brought in line. If nothing else, I support a look being taken at prayer beads. I don't think a meaningful discussion about balance can be had with that outlier in the mix.
I've been pretty neutral about the whole thing up until now, being a killer main that's not a fan of Spirit, but recently one of my favorite streamers was asked what the best killer was to start playing competitively with and their response was essentially "just play Spirit and you're already better than most killers".
Disappointing. They're not a Spirit main, either.
I don't play survivor, but most of the complaints I hear from survivors about her are: 1, they're sick of facing her all the time and 2, she's no fun in a chase.
I empathize with both. Not sure how to address either.
-
So, I played a game with Demogarbanzo and it actually went pretty well. Survivors burned a Game offering (not sure why tbh), which was kind of disorienting at first, but luckily I've got Ruin on him and it spawned in a nice place.
First impression: LOUD AF. He stomps around like he's trying to piss off the downstairs neighbors.
Second impression: It's fun to be a monster. Hissing and roaring at people, smashing pallets with Shred, feels good. It's a pleasant experience. I like the chase music, it's brooding and it lets me still hear things.
It is genuinely difficult to hit people with Shred, though. It's very reminiscent to Billy, you might catch someone out of place if they make a mistake, but don't expect to pull it off in a tight loop. Except expert Billies can curve, Demogargle has no such tool.
Portals are weird... too many tradeoffs. Like others have said, you become stealthy but you let the whole map know. They take time to place and you need to be on one to travel to another, also you can't replace them like Freddy's snares or Hag's traps, so they require a lot of commitment... but they're cleansed very easily.
So they could last all game or disappear in thirty seconds. You don't have much power over either eventuality. I do feel like there's a lot to learn about using them well, which I don't mind, and I'll probably come back to practice on him again later.
All in all, I had fun. Even if he's kind of awkward to use, he's very unique. But I did just go back to stomping on Freddy right after the one game, I have to admit. I still felt like I was at the mercy of the survivors on Demodoggo.
-
I want to play him, I dig his vibe, but I keep reading very mixed reviews. Like the ones written in this thread. Shred seems cool, but those portals do not seem intuitive to use.
Plus, I've been sinking all my BP into Freddy. My Demogargle's just level 10 and has no decent perks of any kind. I'd love to stomp around on some roaring monster, but it's not going to be much if I just get bullied.
Still, maybe it's time I finally give him a try. I'll see if I can find a game on him.
-
@Mister_Holdout said:
At this point, I want the devs to give solo survivor some buffs.
Even though as a killer main I recognize how such buffs could makes our lives more miserable. I still don't care.
I'd rather have tougher games as killer, but be able to play survivor whenever I want and not be miserable.
Having said that, if the devs give solo survivors buffs, they need to finally crack down on this garbage map design.
That would be a great trade. I'm all for it.
I am also a killer main that would be more likely to play survivor if solo wasn't such a dogpile of depression.
-
Getting to hunt people for sport. Crushing dreams. Reenacting my favorite movies.
SHACK BASEMENT. Showing the guy who looped me all game that the one foe he couldn't outrun was his own altruism.
@Supernaut said:
The satisfaction of putting down the 99% Sabotaging Nea, with two Mad Grit M1 hits as Leatherface...
KILLER MAINS HEAR ME!!!
I like this guy.
@Boss said:
Pulling off Devour Hope
Keeping the dream alive for everyone.
-
@Rydog said:
Alright, I am gonna lay this out in one place, so I can copy and paste this entire thing every day if I have to. You're in for a long read.
The single biggest problem with Dead by Daylight is the amount of grind that currently exists in the game. Here are the issues, and what can be done about them.
--
1) New players are intimidated by what it takes to even play the game at a reasonably enjoyable level. Everything is a giant commitment, and it is nearly impossible to casually understand or engage with the perk system.
When I bring someone new into the game -- and this has happened many times, resulting in anecdotes that I'm sure many other veteran players have similar versions of -- the grind to even get a modest stable of strong, competitive perks is immediately off-putting. Even if we're limiting ourselves to, say, the current absolute meta survivor perks, it goes like this: "OK, first level David to 35 for Dead Hard, then level Meg to 40 for Adrenaline, then level Laurie to 40 for Decisive Strike, and level Bill to 35 for Borrowed Time."
That's 150 levels of commitment just for *a chance* that those teachable perks will turn up in Bloodwebs for whoever the newbie wants to main. And I don't care what combination of perks or survivors you throw at them -- Self-Care + Bond + Urban Evasion or whatever -- it's always going to result in a LOT of leveling just to experience the "real" game.
For killers, the situation is even worse, because everything I said is true, but different on a killer-to-killer basis. Imagine you're a new player. Are you going to enjoy playing, say, Michael Myers, because he looks cool and you like Halloween? Well, better get Barbecue & Chili first, plus he really needs Monitor & Abuse, plus hey Hex: Ruin and/or Pop Goes the Weasel are mandatory depending on how you feel, and you could maybe mercifully round it out with Whispers or Sloppy Butcher or whatever. You can't even get a grip on whether you would enjoy playing a single character under "real" circumstances unless -- and until -- you deeply commit to them, and to unlocking and acquiring the teachable perks that show you what actually playing that character with a real build is like.
--
2) The process of acquiring all the perks on a reasonable stable of "main" characters takes way too many in-game hours.
I know this is very anecdotal, but here's what informs my perspective on this: Since starting the game on November 3, 2018, I have clocked 1152 hours, according to Steam. I am going to assume like 20% of those hours have consisted of me waiting in lobbies or absent-mindedly leaving the game on in the background (which I do sometimes), so let's say I have ~922 in-game hours over the course of 11 months.
Six of my 17 my killers are level 50, as well as one single survivor. I have unlocked 40 of 57 teachable survivor perks, and 47 of 51 teachable killer perks. I have all available survivor perks at tier 3 on a single main (Claudette), and all available killer perks at tier 3 on two mains (Spirit and Nightmare -- the latter was only just finished after committing substantial time during the most recent double Bloodpoint weekend). I plan to hit this milestone with a third killer as well. I have never prestiged any character (and I never will, because it is a waste of time, effort, and Bloodpoints). I am at Devotion 2, level 52.
It is, to my thinking, beyond unreasonable that someone -- anyone -- could spend nearly a full year playing this game, and NOT have every perk unlocked and available on far more characters than this. If I spent a full year across this many hours playing World of Warcraft, or Final Fantasy XIV, or Rainbow Six: Siege, or any number of game-as-service products that I could name here, I suspect my progress unlocking relevant options would far and away would be greater than what I've done in Dead by Daylight.
You could argue that I haven't been efficient with my Bloodpoint spending; this is probably true. I spend with far more efficiency and focus than I used to, but that wasn't always true, and a lot of players don't want to put up with the hassle of having to do a bunch of research on the best way to spend their in-game currency.
In any case, that's my personal anecdote. The actual facts are this: It takes approximately 1.1 million Bloodpoints to take a single character from level 1 to a "finished" level 40 state, where you have unlocked all of their teachable perks. Taking all 19 current survivors and all 17 current killers to that point would take 39.6 million Bloodpoints (20.9 million and 18.7 million, respectively).
Let's say you are being REALLY efficient and doing it that way before you do anymore work on your "mains." Your baby Dwight is level 40, and has 41 of 213 total perk ranks (3 ranks per perk across 71 survivor perks). You've now got to go through about 87 more Bloodwebs to get everything (and it's only that low because of the recent Bloodweb change). Let's say that's an average of about 52,000 Bloodpoints per web; we're looking at approximately 4.5 million Bloodpoints there. That's about 25 million Bloodpoints just to top off one single survivor. Granted, the bulk of the "Setup" work is done at that point (since you've unlocked all survivor teachables), but that's quite an investment.
Rinse and repeat for every single individual killer you want to play competitively. I'm sure you can do the math.
Granted, the Shrine of Secrets can ease the burden a little bit. And you might take the position that it's questionable whether "unlock all ranks of all perks on your main" is even a realistic milestone. I think it is, and I think this is excessive. Even if you're just looking for Barbecue & Chili 3 on that one character, this all has the potential to be unnecessarily painful and laborious.
--
Why is it this way?
Part of the problem is the simple fact that the scope of the game got away from the developers. It launched with something like 23 survivor perks and 20 killer perks; now there are 71 and 63, respectively, and those are gonna keep growing at a minimum of like +9 per side per year.
The fact each character must be leveled to 40 in order to unlock their teachable perks, plus the fact that all Bloodwebs are totally RNG-reliant, PLUS the fact that every perk has three ranks, combines for a reality that is viciously player-unfriendly. The September 2019 Bloodweb change (adding more perks to level 40+ webs) is a very nice quality of life upgrade, but it still doesn't get to the heart of the problem, which boils down to the game (and, by extension, the developer) not respecting your time.
This is a bit of hearsay because I don't have a direct source to quote, but I have heard it suggested that Behaviour is against substantially changing this because they fear players leaving the game if they have "nothing to do." My only real response to this is: Man up and have faith in your game. If what you fear really is the case, there's something deeper wrong with it, and you should be obligated to address that problem. You know why people should want to play your game? Because they're having fun. Not because the grind takes hundreds and hundreds of hours. Otherwise, this is just a predatory mobile game in disguise.
With that out of the way...
--
What can be done to fix this?
Well, lots of stuff -- with an eye toward prioritizing player choice, convenience, and long-term happiness over everything else. Consider any or all of the following, in different combinations:
Maybe perks could be separated from the Bloodweb, and bought a la carte. Make them cost more Bloodpoints, for the convenience of getting exactly what we want, on the character that we want. We still need the Bloodwebs for items, add-ons, and offerings.
Maybe unlocking a teachable perk just automatically gives every character, current and future, tier 1 of that perk. Wouldn't that just be a nice quality of life upgrade?
Maybe perks could be consolidated into a single rank each. As-is, having three tiers to each perk is kind of a garbage non-choice. It would just make things faster and easier all around if everything were single-rank. Perks would probably also be less painful to balance, and this might even open new avenues for perk design if Behaviour didn't have to come up with a three-rank variable for everything.
Maybe teachables could come at lower level thresholds. Levels 30, 35, and 40 are huge commitments. Maybe reduce these to 10, 15, and 20? Why not? What would be the harm?
Maybe every perk could be made always available in the Shrine of Secrets. If I could just buy what I wanted with Iridescent Shards, I would be really happy. I saw someone suggest recently that all perks could always just be on the Shrine for 4,000 shards each, and every Tuesday the four perks that are "on sale" for 2,000 shards rotate. This would be really helpful, and it would give you a concrete goalpost to chase while leveling.
Maybe just give everyone more Bloodpoints across the board. Ever notice how happy everyone is for double Bloodpoint events? Why not just make that the normal amount?
--
Whew, alright, that's quite enough. Thanks for reading, if you made it this far.
If you don't agree with the basic premise of this, I don't much care to argue, because you are not going to change my mind. I really think this is a big problem in terms of scaring new players away, and prompting burnout and unhappiness among veterans.
Also, preemptive retort for all the WELL DO YOU JUST EXPECT EVERYTHING HANDED TO YOU ON A SILVER PLATTER Kool-aid drinkers: It's a video game, an entertainment product intended to be fun above all else. I think the situation I am describing goes well above and beyond any reasonable threshold of any "working for my stuff" argument that you can realistically mount. I've been playing the game for a year, for crying out loud. I've paid whatever "dues" your gatekeeping rear-end can throw at me. This grind is very excessive.
I really want Behaviour (paging @Peanits I guess!) to come in, really really read this, and have a real discussion about it. I want to know if they believe it is a problem, and why or why not. If they don't agree with solving it, I want them to be able to tell us why, in concrete terms that amount to more than a two-sentence sound bite. I do not have high hopes that this will happen, and I assume that this post will be ignored. Please, someone, prove me wrong.
So, this was a pretty long damn read, but I agree with just about everything.
I started a small thread a few days back about how excited I was to start playing Freddy, how I now have a good BP earner that also is fun to play. Only problem: he's now level 35, hundreds of thousands of BP spent, and no BBQ. Hasn't appeared once.
I bought Leatherface. I put in the time. I'm getting screwed by RNG. If I had BBQ at tier 3, double BP per game on Freddy, he would be 50 by now. I would be leveling other killers. I would be experimenting with builds and playstyles and having fun.
I wouldn't be considering another break from the game because PGTW seems so necessary but so far away with my Clown at level 10. I can't even spend the BP to get him up because I still need to unlock BBQ on my new main.
I'm not grinding just to get something new, I'm grinding to get something I've already gotten multiple times on other characters (Myers had BBQ waiting in his level 1 bloodweb, Legion had tier 2 BBQ by level 15), and I'm doing it just so I can make other grinds more efficient.
I'm doing one grind just to do another grind which is itself merely one step toward completing another grind. This kind of stuff is why I don't play MMOs.
I can see how some veteran players might like the grind as it gives them something to work toward. I've even seen some people say they'd quit without the grind, that they only play because of it. Well, I play despite it. If I do quit, which I would rather not, it would probably be because of it. It can be quite frustrating to devour every guide, watch every stream, learn from every defeat, only to be told that, no, you can't make that one little adjustment to your kit because you need to spend a couple million more boodpoints.
This does not help new players get into the game. This does not help people play both killer and survivor. If the devs want new players, if they want people to play both sides, something's got to give.
I don't want the whole game handed to me, I just want to achieve basic functionality. I want to play more than one or two killers without needing weeks of extra investment. I already paid for them all. I'm already putting in the time to learn how they work. I just want a system that doesn't actively punish me for trying new things.
TL;DR: I like the idea of teachables being unlocked at tier 1 across all characters after being initially unlocked. I'm fine with grinding, all I need is a grind that makes sense.
-
@oxygen said:
I mean it's a competitive game, people play against eachother and one side winning means the other side is losing. But more and more people seem to associate the word "competitive" with the esports-based balancing philosophy that you see in many other games like Overwatch, CSGO and more.
DBD is not like that, and never will be. Ranks are a matchmaking variable and nothing else as far as the game is concerned. It might not be perfect, but usually it at least tries to prevent extreme edge cases like rank 1 vs rank 20 and the like, which is a good thing by itself.
That makes a little more sense to me.
-
Okay... that seems a bit arbitrary.
I regularly see discussions about how many hundreds or thousands of hours are expected to be considered good at this game, how the game's grind is viewed as an acceptable price of admission for "investing" in it, etc.
It would seem to me that a "casual" game would be more accessible, have unranked play as an option, not require going through things like the teachable perk system which necessitate a nontrivial investment of both money and time.
It seems like this game goes from casual to competitive and back again according to who's talking and what point they're trying to make.