WolfyWood
WolfyWood
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@starfall25 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912917#Comment_3912917
Let me guess, you just want all survivors to stand still while you down them all? At least that is what i read from this. Chases are not fun because you cant catch anyone (though killers do that all the time). So for you to actually have fun, the survivors need to be walking around looping points? Would that work for you?
'At least haste stacking on killer advances the match!'
😭😭😭😭
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@Bodark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912215#Comment_3912215
I can link you a video of me infinitely looping a kaneki on DDawg if you would like. He gave up after 3 minutes but I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t have been able to catch me ever.
Regardless it should 100% be kill switched because it is WAY too strong.
Please do.
@TotemsCleanser said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912215#Comment_3912215
If you mean video proof I don't have any because my NVIDIA recording thingy has been bugged with DBD for a while and I can't get clips at all. But I refer to loops in which you have a window in some sort of highground, such as the one on Father Campbell's Chapel for example, and survivors can fast-vault it and drop with pretty much no stagger. Similar drops exist on many maps.
You should try OBS its a lot more consistent.
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Can you show an instance of Balanced Landing creating an infinite or is it just theoretical?
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@LockerLurk said:
You pretty much can't unless you upgrade your ISP or router.
This is also why "WHY DON'T WE BAN KILLERS WITH HIGH PING RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE" makes no sense. Not everyone controls that. And no, not everyone uses a VPN to cheat.Can we at least make it so high-ping is a detriment to the killer instead of a plus?
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The time you waste going for a save for the killer to easily avoid it = your gens aren't progressed enough to withstand four slowdowns + tunneling = free loss.
There's barely any time to even heal atp. The only good survivor item is green toolbox (for now.)
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@xerox8521 said:
I just let myself die at this point as soon as I know its the ghoul.
Abandon feature is easily one of the best things they've implemented in awhile.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910728#Comment_3910728
Because the only viable killer(s) at that level is nurse and blight? Is that not a problem to you?
So these teams are rare, and we should balance around the average level players.
Then by definition you must contend with the following fact:
If you balance the game around average players, then nurse needs massive buffs, because she is often one of the lowest, if not the lowest kill rate killer in the game when looking at average level players. Unless of course you mean the game should be balanced around average level "SURVIVOR" players but high level killer players, in which case you are obviously holding some massive biases.
Lastly, you didn't try to refute anything i said, read what i wrote. And explain to me how nerfing killer shack would hurt the lower skilled players. You said it removes incentive to learn the game. Like, what? 1 structure being slightly nerfed suddenly makes it so there is no point in learning the game? You can't maybe learn the game by learning how the structure works in this different state. That doesn't make any sense.
At what level? Are you saying a high mmr killer player will lose the majority of their games purely because of killer pick? Or are we talking competitive?
If we are talking comp, they have their own rules. It doesn't matter nor is it related to the normal gameplay by any capacity.
Otherwise, as far as I know stats relating to high mmr indicate killers are doing fine there too and nothing would suggest it's purely because of nurse/Blight. Sure you may have a harder time running weaker killers but the same could be said for survivors running non meta perks.
My point is that if a killer can queue up in any mmr, pick whatever they want, and still win most of their games, there is no reason to nerf survivors at a higher level, especially since any nerfs will undoubtedly trickle down no matter how targeted it might seem.
And yes, it's way easier to be bad at survivor than killer. Maybe not in the past, but with maps and perks continuing to get weaker, killer has never been easier to win with especially considering tunneling/camping which have a low skill floor to begin with.
Considering how easy it is for killers to tunnel/camp their way into high mmr I definitely think there's merit to balancing around high level killers and average/below average survivors.
I don't have the stats but I'd be confident estimating that the proportion of high mmr killers to high mmr survivors would be skewed in favor of the killers.
There's too many factors that influence survivor success, which is why the most successful survivors are in swfs and why they're too rare to be balancing point.
As far your second point, it removes the desire to learn because the result would be marginally better than an average player because the structure is so weak.
Shack is also one of the only static strong loops in the game, several maps would become Haddonfield tier if shack was no longer strong.
The only reason why DDS shack has the breakable door is because the main building is extremely close to it and the devs had the foresight to see how it'd be problematic.
Nerfing Shack on Rotten Fields would be nonsensical.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911099#Comment_3911099
To be fair, genuine infinites (which I have no doubt that old BL creates) ARE game-breaking.
Would it be an infinite if you're in chase though? Also most maps have giant holes right next to elevation vaults now so.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909452#Comment_3909452
This is why if you see above i'm calling for balance decisions that nerf things at low level play that need to be nerfd, while buffing them at high level play that need to be buffed. And vice versa.
An example of this i would give is lets say, killer shack. Killer shack is typically one of the strongest structure, if not the strongest in most maps for survivors. Right? In the hands of a high skill survivor, they can usually, using checkspots, or seeing through the shack, force 3 vaults, before the hit or pallet drop happens, (obviously i'm not counting nurse/spirit which play by different rules, but the rest of the killer cast) wasting a solid 30 seconds of time just to get the pallet and not even land a hit. This is especially true when its connected to other strong tiles.
But, what are "average" skilled survivor players doing with killer shack? Are they looping it like crazy, using checkspots to vault 3 times and saving the pallet for the perfect time and wasting 30-60 seconds of a killers time? No, they are not. Usually they are quickly dropping the pallet, getting it broken, and the moving on or getting hit.
So based on that, what would happen if the devs "nerfed" the killer shack. Maybe by giving it a breakable wall, like the one in Dead Dawg on every map, or what if they removed the holes in it so survivors can't see through it anymore, and killers can properly mind game it. What will happen?
Well, in high level play killer shack become significantly weaker, killers can mindgame it, and its actually a threatening place for the survivor to be at and isn't just automatic safety that, if the killer chases there, they just throw the game.
What about in low skill play? What happens? Well, the survivors aren't using killer shack to that level of play anyway, they aren't using checkspots, and they aren't paying attention to where the killer is through the tiny holes in the walls. They are going to continue doing what they already do now, quickly dropping the pallet, and getting hit or moving on.
This is an example of a change that would "nerf" survivors at a high level (where it is needed) but doesn't actually hurt the survivors in the lower level of play.
There are many other changes that can work in the reverse as well which i could provide examples for, but you should get the general idea here. Its not a simple "just make gens take longer" or "just nerf or buff this perk"
But why do survivors need to get nerfed at a high level? Is it not understood that killers being stronger than SWF makes it so there's no reason to play anything but killer.
The trade-off is that killer can easily win vs uncoordinated teams and easily win vs mediocre SWFs, but is challenged by competitive SWFs. Competitive SWFs are a tiny minority of a minority, meaning that anyone, experienced or otherwise, can pick up killer and have a good chance of winning not only one, but several games at any given time on any killer. That's good design. I genuinely feel like if you're on a loss streak as a killer player its a skill issue.
For suvivors the idea is that the more coordinated you play, the higher your chance of escaping is. Nerfing things like shack just removes any incentive to learn how to play the game. That's not even considering coordinated SWFs don't even have egregious winstreaks either.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909400#Comment_3909400
The same perks are still played because none of the other perks are better, but we just lose harder against good teams.
Why should an organized team of 4 on discord be the "power role"?
If killer still had the upper hand vs four other players who were organized and in comms what do you think would happen to the rest of the game?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909241#Comment_3909241
That is not .01% of games, it's high mmr. Way more than you make it seem.
Can we stop using Blight or Nurse as examples when they are literally exceptions to like every rule?
"The problem has nothing to do with chase duration and everything to do with the fact that current resource design is so bad you might as well try to hide instead of getting chased which is boring. "
This is just completely false. Pallets are so overly numerous and overly safe you can just pre drop to 5 gens complete. That's why this is literally what happens in high mmr games. We only see hiding in low mmr matches.
"If they're going to make every pallet an 80/20 killer favored interaction they need to readjust hit validation at windows so they're a viable alternative. "
Where are we pulling 80/20 from? I said a 50/50. Saying 80/20 is strawmanning.
Only Nurse is.
Blight is still fair game to cite in discussions especially after his addon pass. And even then, last time I checked there are several M1 killers with 300+ winstreaks on top of the fact that every A-High B killer is viable at all levels.
Assuming after 200 consecutive wins one would be placed in 'high mmr,' which means that they're still winning the majority of their games.
Pre dropping as a strategy is not only circumstantial but also entirely a result of pallets not being worth playing for the stun on. It's the only way to guarantee chase time from modern pallets and even then depending on what killer or perks taken it doesn't do much.
If you want less pre-dropping then stunning the killer should be much more rewarding for the survivor.
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So no Ghoul changes?
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@Blueberry said:
With current gen speeds you need chases and hits in <20 seconds to have a chance at winning and that's being generous.
Here's the problem:
Killers that can make chases that short are deemed too strong because for it to be a fun/fair chase in most survivors minds it needs to be longer than 20 seconds. However as we said before, >20 is losing the killer the game. The chases survivors want are not viable for the games current gen speeds.
We're at an impasse.
Imo the solution here is slowing the gens down so that we can have "weaker" killers that can take longer chases. This allows survivors their fair/fun chases without it totally throwing the game for the killer. The alternative to this is worse imo, which is fast gens but making "stronger" killers that make very fast chases to keep up with the gen speeds.
This is true against .01% of swfs and tournaments which have their own rules.
This is not true for the overwhelming majority of games. I don't know why we're speaking so objectively about something that may occur once out of every ten games (being generous.)
And even within your scenario good killers can still win or go even, as evidenced by the momo Blight winstreak that went on for hundreds of games and the resulting 'loss' that ended in a draw against a competitive team with no restrictions on a good survivor map.
The problem has nothing to do with chase duration and everything to do with the fact that current resource design is so bad you might as well try to hide instead of getting chased which is boring.
If they're going to make every pallet an 80/20 killer favored interaction they need to readjust hit validation at windows so they're a viable alternative.
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@TotemsCleanser said:
I wonder if the devs might have to figure out some license stuff before changing anything in this map. Like, they need to get the license holders approval and whatnot. Maybe that's the reason why it remained giga survivor-sided for so many years and now it's remaining giga killer-sided for years too. (Copium)
I feel like it doesn't matter considering the map barely resembles Haddonfield at all anymore.
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LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
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Vaults have been feeling janky for awhile (as usual) but I did notice this too.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906783#Comment_3906783
It's not useless. But I tell you what: take that type of short pallet loop that spawns right next to the gates on Hawkins, and put one on the left and right side of the main, so that when they're pre-dropped, they create near- god loops, because of the time the killer wastes going around.
Something needs to be added to the left side of the main building to make up for the fact that the porch vault is useless now.
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- - Kaneki Power
- - Easily Dodgeable
Lol.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
With so many survivor sided maps I think a few killer sided should be left as they are
It's not just killer sided though.
Rotten Fields is a killer-sided map yet nobody complains about it because while a good killer will most likely win it doesn't feel as useless as Haddonfield does currently.
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@rysm said:
In what way is it unplayable?
The entire main building side of the map is useless.
Why is it acceptable for 50% of a map to be unsafe?
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@chatgiraffe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906700#Comment_3906700
Yeah. That's not my point. It allows Survivors to leave matches whenever they want by having everyone get downed, or lets the last survivor DC early to avoid seeing the Killer actually mori them. Which are both just pathetic reasons to leave, and shouldn't be a mechanic.
Why does it matter if you still win?
I'm actually not getting what your issue is.
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Theyre one of those killers where you are going to get downed no matter what so it comes down to not getting instadowned and the team having enough gen pressure to finish the gens before everyone runs out of hooks.
Getting a 4 out is impossible unless the player is awful, getting a 3 out is hard unless the player isn't playing to win.
1E-2E should be treated as a win vs this killer in its current state, especially if you finish all the gens.
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It's just a skilless overpowered killer, I wouldn't sweat it too much he's def getting nerfed after promotional period ends.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906235#Comment_3906235
Yeah, I just can't understand why anyone would think making most killers similar to Nurse and Blight in power would be a good idea. The game would lose most of its players at that point.
The logic chain is that every killer is unviable except for Nurse/Blight who are barely viable but everyone is just bad so this truth is buried.
Nothing new.
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906209#Comment_3906209
We should NOT be trying to make killers close to nurse and blight power level. They’re S tier meaning they’re overpowered, I understand not nerfing every killer to C or D tier but trying to make killers close to nurse and blight is an awful take. Those 2 need big nerfs to take them out of S tier, there shouldn’t even be S tier killers in this game.
Yeah actually such a crazy take imo and such a fast way to kill the game.
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One of those killers where you have to hope they're way below your skill level to consistently win against them. You pretty much have to just accept its guaranteed downs and try to double down on gen pressure.
It will get nerfed though.
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@LockerLurk said:
"Can we make the game feel awful for all M1 and low mobility Killers and hyper-buff the mobility Killers again?"
As opposed to M1 and low mobility killers legit serving no purpose because they're outclassed anyways on smaller maps?
What changes aside from survivor experience?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863669#Comment_3863669
Perhaps I am being too kind then
I would suggest not entertaining people when they ask you to elaborate.
You can almost feel the thirst through the screen to argue about 'cancel culture.'
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It's cancellation.
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I don't think I'd want to see Luna Snow get brutalized in this game. It could just be a killer only chapter.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435501/dbd-classic-new-game-mode
The original code still exists certainly. There are people who have through mods and their own servers played on prior patch versions, but its a fair amount of work. I think some content creators made videos on it a while back.
I didn't know that. I really want to play on old Haddonfield.
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Writing all of that when you could've just posted in the other SM-sympathy thread about the same exact topic with the same exact title.
Being an M1 killer doesn't exclude the character from being terrible to play vs. Pre-nerf sloppy butcher GF/Wraith was abysmal gameplay.
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Has BHVR ever been good at balancing?
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Who are these threads even for?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3852560#Comment_3852560
Except Im not other people and this is my post. Also just because you hear people (or think you hear people) say stuff like that it does not make it the majority either. :/
Its okay most people in this forum, as evidenced by this thread, would prefer if survivors were just punching bags with no agency. I wouldn't engage seriously with any of them.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3852252#Comment_3852252
Your always trying to twist things around, if you get GREEDY and slug a person to try injure and down another instead of hooking the first person you downed, then the slugged one has the right to waste your time as you wasted theirs.
Your literally saying the person the person you down first should wait there for you to try get another person and create free snow balling lol?
I swear killer mains do any and everything to justify their rotten play style yet have an audacity to find a way to make it seem the survivor is at fault always.
It's funny cause slugging hasn't gotten better or worse, it's just that since people are losing despite brainless tunneling they finally realize slugging is another strat to use.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850501#Comment_3850501
I'll be honest, when I want out I tend to just half-ass my chases. It's really not hard to get out of a game if you want to. Just run in a straight line past all tiles until you're downed lol makes the killer feel good too. Removing self unhooking for first stage won't bother me at all. In the 4 years I've been playing I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've let go on first hook. Hopefully it would lead to a rework of luck offerings too.
Can already envision uptick of 'why are survivors so bad lately' posts if this change ever comes to pass.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/433945/is-dbd-currently-survivor-sided
At the highest level of play, the game is survivor sided. At the lowest level, the game is killer sided. At average levels, its somewhere between, usually dependent on killer, map, what stuff people bring, teammates etc.
So survivor sided that we can have 300+ kill-streaks on even 'bad' killers.
The reality is that the game is killer-sided until 'high mmr' where its more of a mixed bag due to various means of cheesing a skill gap.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
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What is there to address that hasn't been already?
They aren't going to buff survivor in a meaningful way going forward.
All of their feedback channels are filled with killer mains.
Any survivor concern gets derailed immediately and zero productive conversation is had.
So you either stop caring about winning on survivor or you quit.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848102#Comment_3848102
If the killer gets a chunk of these tactics basekit and they're as broken as they are, yes.
You're so strong for continuing to argue the same basic points over and over, I would go insane. 🤣🤣
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846104#Comment_3846104
This is patently false.
They probably think that because every killer main on here says that they aren't a killer main because they play chest builds on survivor once in awhile.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846326#Comment_3846326
Exactly lol either it's a useful perk and therefore "OP", or it's a mediocre perk and therefore "not bad"
Don't forget the 'this perk is very strong in an incredibly niche coordinated SWF scenario therefore its busted and only bad players don't get value out of it' rhetoric that I've been observing on this forum too.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3ROL0NDOCGBO/screenshot-2024-11-16-114444.jpg
I thought it was interesting how you can see exactly when my love for DBD died off. Anyone leave the game and come back?
Currently in an extended hiatus myself, they just haven't released anything noteworthy in a hot minute.
But I probably should start playing before FNAF comes to the game 'cause I think it's over after that.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
The game is incredibly survivor sided
Hatch, unbreakable, keys, doors, adrenaline.
What year is this?
Surprised Dead Hard, Resilience and WoO didn't make the post.
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@Saiph said:
It's really depressing how all these posts are pointing out real issues, and I genuinely agree with 90% of what you said, but for some reason you decided to start the whole thing with "The event is beyond killer-sided and every streamer agrees" which is a completely biased take and basically ruins the whole argument.
We have a lot of data that proves the game is killer-sided, why not just stick with that instead of making up nonsense that 1) you can't provide any evidence for and 2) is actually false - the event is not killer-sided and "streamers" agree (check Scott Jund's video for example). I don't know which streamers you watch, but the consensus is that both sides get a slight advantage from their ability, but it's not worth it the time spent picking it up in the void, for either side.
Now because you decided to include this weak point, every killer player will only react to that.
Doesn't really matter how the post was worded you cannot blame the OP.
Even when the dev's own objective stats are posted the same people derail the thread for several pages.
On Topic:
So far it's been like that for every event, BHVR must have data showing that killers are in need of more players or they're just wilfully ignorant, I don't think the game will get much better until a large survivor change happens.
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@Nazzzak said:
The fact that they originally had the basekit Unbreakable alongside a previous iteration of the Finisher Mori suggests they knew an increase in slugging would be a consequence. It's been a couple of years in the making so the fact that they were happy to release it now suggests they don't actually care about an increase in slugging because any attempts to address it are completely gone because killers weren't happy.
We all know special moris will be available in store soon, so the situation will only get worse as people will be determined to get what they paid for. After 2 years in the making I'd say the devs are content with the situation and I can't see them doing anything about it. If they do I would be pleasantly surprised but I'm not holding my breath.
Stuff like this is probably why they're keeping in going next on hook, if you had to just be Mori-Bait every game I doubt people would keep playing.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829533#Comment_3829533
Low MMR here. It’s not common in those games either. People who bemoan this as some kind of epidemic seem to be lying.
I mean you can just look at the role they main, somehow the killer's game is 'ruined' despite being given a free win in a pvp game who's rewards are almost entirely based on winning.
It's always came across as being upset due to loss of control over the survivors.
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@buggybug said:
But why should killers see survivors?
4 flashlighs or heck 1= lightborn
4 mix items= franklins
Ttv=dodge
Nice cosmetics = dodge
Same concept right?
I'm okay with seeing items, in theory its dumb but in practice if you can bait the killer into taking a useless perk its workable.
Killers should never be able to see cosmetics, characters, or profiles though. The killer player-base clearly gets emotional before the match even starts and it also leads to dodging.
You'll mostly find pushback against this idea though, these same people argued a lot against removing prestige for 'flavor' reasons as well.
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@BorisDDAA said:
I like how you tried to spin this killer buff as a soloqueue buff.
Wait till you see that a large chunk of killer players on this forum do it all the time.
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I mean this was the next map killers were complaining about so I agree with previous posts that it's just business as usual.
I wonder what the next map to be gutted will be.