VortexVentamy
VortexVentamy
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After reading I actually really like some of these ideas. I won't get into the add ons cause there are so much but here are my thoughts:
Trapper: I like most of the ideas listed but I fear that grabbing 1 trap per locker will actually waste more time as opening and closing a locker takes longer than just picking up a trap. 5 seconds before even trying to escape is also a very long time. Additionally the 10% haste he might get when a survivor steps into a trap would probably be used to not go pick up that survivor, like when they tried to do that with Twins. I do like most of the ideas here but I fear in gameplay it will feel bad.
Wraith: Definitely needs Shadow Dance (faster actions in cloak) and Swift Hunt (faster uncloak speed) base kit. It feels really weird that he does not already have Shadow Dance base kit as it really fits perfectly. I also like the idea that he has a set uncloak time and there isn't guesswork to be made for survivors or feeling bad that you could be uncloaking faster but are not. I do think he does not need to be faster in cloak as his current speed is fine. Additionally I think having bonus haste is not needed, has ideally with these buffs a good Wraith knows when to hit with his usual burst of speed.
Hillbilly: Initially I was coming in going to say I do not think Hillbilly needs any changes, which is really funny that you also said nothing needs to be changed. I also really like the Speed Limiter add on change to give him a new playstyle.
Alright lighting round because there are a lot of perks:
Unnerving Presence, Brutal Strength, Agitation: I like no great skill checks, increase also helps with Diminishing returns, yay Agitation
Predator, Bloodhound, Shadowborn: I felt like the narrow scratch marks were a self-nerf to compensate for aura reading when losing chase but of course I like this too, think the cooldown could be a little longer, Aura of blood is cool, I personally liked Shadowborns affect being when blinded; I suggest looking through the perk history and seeing that it used to decrease blind time which would be AMAZING with the haste it gives. But I like this too kinda.
Enduring, Lightborn, Tinkerer: Yes, cool, that's nice but maybe it should also highlight the gen because that can be abusable perhaps like in the past but still good idea
Bond, Prove Thyself, Leader: Good job Bond, that's cool idea but it reads like if there are two survivors both gain 15%, nice
Quick and Quiet, Sprint Burst, Adrenaline: Alrighty, fair enough, woawa okay wow I think it is a bit overkill so I am just gonna say thumbs down emoji (exhausted status for rest of the trial is neat but that does not seem like a worthy downside to temporary everything).
Empathy, Botany Knowledge, Self-Care: Interesting, haha minor spelling mistake but also imo Botany is fine given Diminishing Returns but I understand where you're coming from but now this perk is just a worse version of Empathetic Connection, wow… Self-Care buff… there will still be people unfortunately wasting half a gen healing with it but I have to see it in action before saying I like it. I think they should bring back Self-Care's effect on med-kits.
Iron Will, Calm Spirit, Saboteur: Stronger when crouch really cool, no downside is cool (rip power counter but also fine to me), I like that it includes dying state and has a small cooldown when not fully sabotaging a Hook yay
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For Dredge specifically, would LOVE the closet he comes out of in its trailer as a Killer Object. Perhaps even allowing it to travel faster or unable to be locked since it is a rarer object on the map.
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@Lexilogo said:
I think it would make more sense to implement this feature as a support bonus on a different compromised generator Perk. As a baseline change for compromised gen perks I think it would make triggering them a bit too reliable, it kinda defeats the downside of them. But as a support Perk like Jagged Compass IMO it'd fit perfectly.
Help Wanted should be one of the first Perks to get a buff accounting for Diminishing Returns and might've been a major motivator for the feature behind the scenes. If the bonus becomes 40% for example that would make its Diminishing Returns synergy with STBFL/Keep Them Waiting almost the same as pre-Diminishing Returns, but would be a big buff to Help Wanted's standalone power. Still not sure it'd be good but would be much better than currently.
As for a proposal for an extra gravy effect for Help Wanted: I think permanently increasing the amount of time required to open the Exit Gates, like Remember Me, feels thematic for the Perk.
That could be nice, though in regards to the extra effect of increasing Exit Gates, it seems even more situational as it requires the last completed generator to be compromised.
The easiest addition I can think could be haste as it pairs well with reduced attack cooldown, but I know that would be too similar to Machine Learning. Maybe it could cause survivors to scream / reveal around the killer (24m/32m/TR) when the compromised gen gets completed for some information. Aura reading could also be good if they were willing to try that out.
The info addition could be a play on the phrase "Help Wanted", looking for others.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084302#Comment_4084302
I feel like the reasoning behind that change was pretty dumb.
For one, the 40 meter TR killers are usually those who are in the high tier. Compared to the 24 meter TR ones, who are usually the worse ones.
So it only ended up helping high tiers and hurting low tiers.
Plus, with a 40 meter TR, Undetectable perks are just better for the occasion.
True, also I forgot that they have the increase TR only 15% instead of matching 25% like with the decrease. Would enjoy it being changed to either 8m +/- or have TR increase back to 25%. Thoughts? Would you rather have it revert to +/- 8m?
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084098#Comment_4084098
Monitor has been reduced into uselessness with the last change. Granted, diminishing returns barely affect it, but it should still get a revert (my conspiracy theory is that it was nerfed in preparation of the anti-tunnel that never came to be, because of the Furtive Chase rework)
Sloppy Butcher stacks with other antiheal perks like Leverage, because it makes healing longer. Maybe not directly, but it still should get adjusted.
I don't think Monitor is exactly useless as it helps killers with a 40m terror radius a bit more now, if they were aiming for a little bit of stealth that is. But I do miss the static reduction and increase for stealth builds with 24m TR to 16m.
While Sloppy Butcher does stack with other perks I still find the perk itself unrelated to DM because of it being effects but I understand your point. I just think it doesn't need to be changed if other anti-heal perks do.
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While that does make sense, they did an achievement for the Walking Dead map which was on another realm. Still would make sense for Trickster's Delusion to have it's own achievement given it is an entirely new realm.
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@Wezqu said:
They don't always have achievements usually if the DLC only has a killer and a map there is no achievement as it would belong to the survivor achievements. They add usually three achievements per character added to the side the character is added. That is main reason why Freddy Fazbear's Pizza does not have the "fix main generator and escape" achievement as there was no survivor added with that. Other maps that don't have it is those that some point Behavior lost the license for like Underground Complex.
Still with Trickster's Illusion they either forgot to add as there was a survivor or they want to move away from those as there has been some people complaining about achievements that demand certain maps. Still they did keep the new three achievements per character rule even with Kwon.
I actually did not realize Freddy Fazbear's didn't have it's own achievement, thanks for pointing it out. Thanks for the response, I feel like given it's an entire new realm it should have been an achievement.
This might sound annoying in retrospect but I wonder, as a minor fix for the map achievement difficulty, to make achievements based on realms and not maps but idk.
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I really hope Leverage gets back to 50% that was so nice…
Some other perks I think could be buffed are Flowstate for survivor but other than that you mentioned a lot of perks I would!
I would like to talk about perks I do not feel like need a buff specifically because of diminishing returns, regardless of whether or not they should be buffed anyway. Note I know killer perks a bit more than survivor so feel free to let me know why some perks are mentioned.
List of perks I do not think necessarily need buffs because of diminishing returns;
Survivors:
Calm Spirit — doesnt affect diminishing returns as negatives do not get reduced with positives (I think it should be buffed but not because of diminishing returns)
Counterforce — speed is high enough for what it is aiming for. Because it is the highest in it's category, perhaps some other perks should be buffed.
Buckle Up — is a fine perk
Killers:
Monitor & Abuse — Does what it needs to fine with it's only other perk affecting it being Distressing so maybe the focus can be on that, but the odds of these two perks being used at the same time seem unlikely. (I mostly see Monitor being used for Stealth but I understand it can be used for it's large TR as well).
Forever Entwined — While I wouldn't mind it getting buffed, I feel like it's fine even if it is paired with Fire Up as this perks, with max stacks, is the highest number for picking up and hooking.
Sloppy Butcher — this perk has no other perk messing with it as it is applying effects, with it's unique thing modifying Hemorrhage. If I am wrong please let me know. -
Honestly with the recent changes I feel like the only thing left that I would love is faster door travel speed cause right now it feels so slow.
Additionally I remember there being an idea about having longer undetectable and having cameras reveal him out of it which would be really interesting and thematically fitting + enforce people using cameras because right now no one really uses them -
@sizzlingmario4 said:
Agreed. The new animation is incredibly distracting to look at and I would really like to have an option to disable it. They've done this with a couple of other newer UI elements added recently, this one shouldn't be any different
Honestly surprised we did not see it as an option given how much I have heard about it being distracting. Personally I don't mind it but options are nice.
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@Callahan9116 said:
This update trashes the game
Can you explain and actually have a discussion?
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@ForumUsername said:
sorry but non of this is important with the current health of the game being so bad.
game balance should come first and bug fixes then anything else
Right, but that doesn't mean it should not be talked about. Quality of Life outside of the trials is just as important to the game itself, adding character and charm to it. Sure, it might not be as important but that's like saying they should not have modernized the menu recently because the game is bad right now. They could do other stuff regarding the trials themselves but there are other parts to Dead by Daylight that are important, such as UI.
Additionally, I suggest you read the first post where I feel like those are much more important to add than these. The suggestions listed above are something I just think would be nice. Again, voicing something not many players may voice but still would benefit almost every player. That could be subjective but still.
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@Lexilogo said:
Hi, I'll give my thoughts on some of this stuff!
I think BHVR giving Killers specific tags for power classification would be useful, though obviously there's a lot of reasonable debate over what they should be. I personally don't think your tags are the best. Eg. I think most people would call "Swap" Killers "Stance" Killers instead, and characters like Clown whose stances are really just a control scheme technicality shouldn't count. Nobody cares when Clown switches bottles, they do care when Oni pulls out the kanabo.
I would split Killers into the following categories personally, with Killers having multiple tags in order of importance:
- Trap: This killer plants things in advance that come into play later.
- Stealth: This killer can remove their TR.
- Lethal: This killer can instadown, or do double hits so fast they might as well instadown.
- Traversal: This killer can move over long distances to get across the map faster.
- Dash: This killer can move short distances in chase for easier hits.
- Snowball: This killer becomes much more powerful once they get some momentum.
- Tracking: This killer can get information on Survivor activity much easier.
- Ranged: This killer can deal damage through a long range attack.
- Midrange: This killer can deal damage through a short range attack.
- Antiloop: This killer, through indirect means such as slowdown, can turn a safe loop into an unsafe one.
- Status: This killer must inflict a status effect before they can use their full potential.
- Hijack: This killer gives Survivors a complex objective that will likely kill them if ignored.
- Zoning: This killer often bluffs with their ability to control Survivors in chase.
- Stance: This killer changes to an alternate form with different abilities.
I think that's 14 in total. As examples of usage, I'd put Huntress down as Ranged - Lethal, but Trickster down as Lethal - Ranged, because Trickster's ability to multihit is proportionally more important and prominent than in Huntress, but Huntress still derives a lot of her power from it. Nemesis I'd put down as Midrange - Status - Snowball, because in order of importance he has Tentacle Strike, Tentacle Strike has to Contaminate before it can Injure, and Tentacle Strike needs mutation tiers to really start getting dangerous. Some Killers like Dracula would probably need 4 tags, but it'd ideally be best to avoid going any higher than that. (I'd put him down as Stance - Dash - Midrange - Traversal)
Some of these are still very hard concepts to adjudicate and condense down to describe each Killer adequately, but that's the rough starting point I'd use. Would be interested to hear other people's differing opinions/execution.
The second suggestion I just agree with, would be nice to get a dedicated Power screen that has a little more accurate info instead of needing to jump to the wiki for most stuff.
The Killer journal idea is similar to one I had a while back, so yes I agree with it! The main difference between my idea and yours is that I suggested giving Survivors the tips before they face the Killer, when they match with them in the lobby- That way, they potentially get a full minute to read up on the Killer if they need it and get some briefing tips, without needing something like a friend to talk them through it. This is similar to how Loading Screen Tips that already exist spoil what Killer you're against, just pushing it back into the lobby screen so it can be more detailed.
I absolutely love the list of tags you provided, its exactly what I would hope for. I'm also glad you mentioned the importance of ordering the tags as I feel like that is important subtle information to give the player, as each killer varies in different areas.
After reading your Killer Notes idea, I really do like it. My only issue is even though it doesn't tell people they are going against that killer, it still technically tells them they will go against that killer and can prep accordingly, especially in SWF. But still I love how it is in line with the lore of the game and gives new players a way to read about each killer before and after facing them in a fun way.
Now thinking about it, loading screens are quite bare usually. I would love a sort of note to appear when loading into a trial with information about the killer they are facing. Maybe a polaroid image or two. Though again the issue comes with how detailed it might be in the limited time of loading…
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It is so disheartening to pour out ideas into a post only for not one person to see it, I wish there was a separation between Gameplay Suggestions and overall Game Suggestions but I know that isn't necessary.
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I agree, as much as I think the popcorn stabbed knife is funny on Blighted Chucky I would love to use other knives available instead.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3980368#Comment_3980368
Instead of a variable cooldown perhaps keeping token charge like Nurse might be more desirable.
I think that'd be a nice QoL change on the killer end. Either that or don't pause the recharge. It would definitely give him a little more power, but I think on the survivor end when Wesker's readies a bound you kinda expect that he has 2 dashes anyway.
Another idea I had was that at max infection the survivor would get slammed into the ground
I kinda like the idea of making landing bounds on fully infected survivors a guaranteed down regardless of map geometry. It's something I hadn't considered as a possibility. I think the second proposal is neat too but I could see it backfiring or having 0 impact on a map like Rotten Fields.
I do like the idea that the more he infects the more it builds up a sort of meter but honestly I would rather have that on a different killer than Wesker to keep it simple.
Agreed.
I do imagine they could possibly do what they did with Chucky where perhaps if you hold the dash button you slide but if you don't hold it you do not slide, though testing should be done because it might cause more problems in strength if it was implemented like that.
I feel like it'd have to be a separate button that comes with a downside (an extended cooldown would be the simplest). If it was as simple as hold vs don't hold there'd be no reason not just hold it in most situations. I don't think the frame rate problem would continue to exist if they went in and added it as a feature. But yeah, being able to slide on everything like Chucky at will…probably never going to happen purely for balance reasons. That, and how do you add that mechanic without creating new art assets/animations to accommodate it. Hug tech is really goofy looking.
The thing about the second proposal is it wouldnt affect how far he throws, simply how far he moves with the survivor. I can only imagine it being a positive personally but yeah its hard to say anything without testing.
Personally I like how Hug Tech looks, and considering that's how Snug looks I imagine they wouldnt change much except maybe add better visuals for the survivor. But yeah definitely would be balancing nightmare if it was just "hold button down." Perhaps it could work like Ghost Face lean to force it to only work at corners, with an indicator and everything. Of course not the same I could see it working like that, with the same window lean stalking has.I enjoy our conversations :D Nice to have proper talks / debates.
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@[Deleted User] said:
why is copy and pasting stuff on this forums such a formatting pain these days ahhhhh
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3979952#Comment_3979952
Variable cooldown: I think Artist's variable cooldown for using X amount of birds isn't really felt much at all because you either have crows or you don't. There's no halfway point where you can have 1-2 crows and you're able to use them, whereas with Wesker there is (not to mention that attempting to use your 1 bound while the 2nd is on cooldown completely pauses the 2nd's cooldown and eats it if used). I just think it would mess with the feel of the character without any real reason to do so.
As for the add-ons, I was specifically thinking about Unicorn Medallion & RPD Walkie, where the value of the individual dashes changes, so it'd make sense that a hypothetical variable cooldown would also have to change with those add-ons. It's not that it can't be done, it just goes back to the question of why bother in the first place if it's just going to require a lot more work for little benefit to the character's design or balance?
On bound cancelling: I'm not completely opposed to the idea, but they'd have to add a clearer audio/visual cue to it, similar to Ghoul's distinct audio cue. There are already still a lot of people that have trouble recognizing that he's out of dashes as-is, (to the point where they're actively trying to juke a 2nd dash that you don't have), so letting him cancel at will would just further muddy the water. The deadzone concerns are real though, especially with all the other number changes. It's just something I'd have to see in practice.
On infection: I mean I get it, I really don't like the hinder either. I just see and have always seen the infection mechanic as a survivor time waster more than anything, and I don't think it makes sense tying a fundamental change to how Wesker's chases work (especially for non-fully infected survivors) to that mechanic. At least, not in the way presented here. If it was essentially a meter/"ultimate" ability that you build up by infecting survivors and can choose to use (like Trickster's main event, Oni's blood fury) and you got more meter when a survivor reaches full infection then sure, it's a design that makes sense from a "this is in the killer's control" standpoint.
But I also just don't think he needs any of that ultimate-esque stuff either, and that while the hinder probably isn't ideal, it at least gives injured survivors a reason to care about being fully infected in a way that isn't subtle like the cooldown reduction for every infected survivor thing is.
To summarize my approach to what infection needs to preserve if changed I suppose, the 2 important bits are: Making it so that it's punishing to be fully infected regardless of the survivor's health state, and making it so that the punishment is placed mostly, if not entirely on the fully infected survivor, not their team. E: I think the hinder accomplishes both those goals nicely enough, and it's hard to think of any other mechanic that could be introduced without feeling overly convoluted. I mean hell, even from a "realistic" mechanical perspective the hinder makes sense…it's well within the realm of possibility that a rapidly spreading infection would slow someone down.
On hug tech: My first thought is that I just don't think it's something they'd ever do. I think it'd be interesting to implement it as an intentional mechanic, and I'm not happy that it's so tied to frame rate that it's basically all but impossible to consistently pull off on console (or how you get variable distance with variable FPS). But it's so far outside of the realm of possibility (and fairly niche as to how useful it is for people that can pull it off) that I don't even think about the implications all that much.
On varied cooldown: Good point, overall the "why" would be making only using one Dash less punishing, though I do get its extra work. Instead of a variable cooldown perhaps keeping token charge like Nurse might be more desirable.
Now thinking about those add-ons specifically, if this idea did come into the game I imagine they would have an extra clause saying adds or removes time for the first bound; making bound time/length more in line with the token recovery which could be interesting but again extra work.
Infection: I imagined the main punishment for injured survivors would simply be the fact he gets stronger but I understand. Another idea I had was that at max infection the survivor would get slammed into the ground, effecting both injured and healthy survivors making Wesker extremely dangerous when fully infected without changing the killer numbers. But that might be a little too strong, so maybe it only works on injured survivors because they are weaker.
Branching off the idea of max infection = danger, perhaps at max infection he recovers faster (in animation) when slamming / throwing a survivor or has a larger dash when he grabs to more guarantee a throw / slam. A small but significant change to his strength, keeping max infection a threat while not being too crazy.I do agree that hinderance works perfect to punish an individual survivor, and honestly I agree. Max infection should specifically affect one survivor. Which is why I feel like the idea above is more in line as to what may happen. To be honest I came up with the second proposition like on the spot and now I am more interested in this new proposition (will edit to add).
I do like the idea that the more he infects the more it builds up a sort of meter but honestly I would rather have that on a different killer than Wesker to keep it simple.
As for hug tech; I have no idea how they would add it nicely because of the FPS reason. I do imagine they could possibly do what they did with Chucky where perhaps if you hold the dash button you slide but if you don't hold it you do not slide, though testing should be done because it might cause more problems in strength if it was implemented like that. -
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3979886#Comment_3979886
Well, my friend, it is mostly because of how bloated his kit is for a dash killer. A killer whose primary power is movement based cannot have so many things in their kit, otherwise there is very little you can actually do to stop them.
Wesker gets dash, injury on windows, passive slowdown with the infection, killer instinct when you remove the infection, and he can throw you on a random direction which no other killer can do. It is too much, way too much, for a power that is primarily movement based.
That doesn't make him impossible to beat, of course, but it makes him utterly miserable to go against, in my opinion.
Wesker is one of the more simpler killers in the game? You just described three parts of his power into 5 different parts. His dash allows him to injure on windows (when it works) and his passive slowdown is minimal compared to someone like Singularity and not as long lasting as Pig.
I dont mean to come off rude but would you describe Nemesis as a bloated killer? He has passive slow down with his zombies, killer instinct when curing infection, and the ability to damage over objects and break pallets. Other examples I can imagine bringing up involve Pyramid Head, Pig, Knight, and Skull Merchant. Of course Lich and Dracula but those are easy to argue as having deliberate different forms / abilities.
Im not trying to invalidate your opinion I would just like to play defense lawyer. -
@[Deleted User] said:
On the number changes: Don't really have any thoughts on any particular changes, would have to feel most of it out ingame (although one of the first thoughts about changing the charge time was "how long does his laughing audio cue last anyway? would it still be natural at 1.3 seconds?"). The only thing I'll say is that the variable cooldown thing just seems to add a bit of needless complexity for the sake of complexity. I think having each bound share the same cooldown makes the character more intuitive to play for both newcomers & veterans, and you also don't have to think about how it affects/how you'd change/not change add-ons that alter dash distance.
On the bound cancel: I still don't like it, even with the cooldown/waiting period. I get it, it's really awkward sitting there for ages with egg staring into the survivor's soul as they meander around a bush. But out-positioning him like half the counterplay, right? If you give him the ability to cancel even 1 second sooner, especially with the other proposed buffs, you basically just make deadzones worse for survivor more than anything. Maybe make it an add-on or something so there's some opportunity cost to having it, but even then.
On the vault hitbox time: Sure. Even if they did though I think people would find a way to do it. I had someone avoid the vault chomp and phase into me even on Ghoul once or twice. Honestly a temporary block on the pallet/window (like 0.5-1 second) upon completing the vault animation would probably go a long way to dealing with the issue w/o affecting his overall power level or resulting in cheap hits.
On the camera turn rate: I could live with just the multiplier being adjusted. It's probably the better solution instead of just removing it entirely, if only due to the implication of mouse flicks. I think it is just unbearably slow right now, especially on controller. I'd even take it in add-on form at this rate.
On the infection changes: I don't like any of it.
Well, ok, the infection charges numbers I don't have many thoughts on, for reasons stated previously. It's all a matter of what feels best when actually playing which is hard to gain from looking at stuff on paper. But the third dash on max infection for instance, I hate it. My first train of thought is what happens to that third dash when the fully infected people get rid of their infection? Does it just disappear into the aether? If it does disappear, does it do so after a period of time or instantly (even mid-bound)? But if it doesn't disappear, do you communicate to the survivors that he has a third dash up or no (I would hope it is given the implications)? Is the dash even used up if he doesn't dash more than twice (so he just always has it for the perfect moment)? There's just too many questions that need answers here, and that's with disregarding the balance concerns that 3 dashes bring up, disregarding the fact that having it tied to the infection mechanic might not even feel good on the Wesker player's end, and disregarding the fact that this would change it from a "you are fully infected, this is bad for you" to "you are fully infected, this could be bad for your teammate across the map" ordeal (although to be fair, yes, the cooldown reduction that's in the game already does that to an extent, and I sort of agree with removing it in favor of a lower base cooldown).
The other proposed infection change is pretty much 1 to 1 with regards to how I feel and what questions are brought up with the 3 dash idea, except I also have concerns about messing with the killer's muscle memory/timing in a way that's not really in their control.
Like that's the big thing right. A survivor getting fully infected isn't in the killer's control unless they're hard committing to a chase or if they've somehow managed to get them to burn every spray, so tying such a big, game changing bonus to the mechanic just doesn't make much sense to me. You'd essentially end up in a Plague situation (especially ancient Plague when she didn't start with a corrupt fountain basekit) where you'd rarely actually get to use that fun extra part of your power unless the survivors choose to let it happen or you try so hard to force it to happen that you'd be better off playing normally anyway. It just doesn't sit right with me from a design perspective, and I don't think it'd be as fun to have in practice as you think it would. But I will state that I'm not entirely happy with the hinder either so…I don't know.
And finally, on the face slamming changes: If you could just vault normally without spending a second charge while in the chain bound window like how Ghoul can vault windows normally while actively in power, I'd be happy. Have it cancel the power like a normal bound vault and allow it to be used on pallets (unlike Ghoul). I don't think it'd be all that problematic, it would just be nice for those situations where if you don't spend the 2nd charge to vault, they get a ton of distance because you have to go around or break the pallet, and if you do, they still get a ton of distance because of the full power recovery. Anything to reduce the monotony of holding W.
I get a lot of my suggestions probably sound better on paper than in practice but let me try to give some justification:
The variable cooldown idea came from Artist who kind of works similarly, where the more crows you use the longer the cool down (seconds; 5, 9, 12, 14) but I thought reversing it for Wesker could be interesting. Though I understand part of Wesker's appeal is his simplicity.
Add-ons: Another thing is I did somewhat think about add ons. I imagined those in affect would be adjusted or reworked entirely. I am curious as to what add-ons you imagine would have specific problems? I was thinking about Leather Cloves (reduces power recovery time by 8%) but they would work fine, they would just reduce each token slightly differently (4.5 = 0.36 saved and 5 = 0.4 saved).
I value your other points and understand not letting him cancel his power in that second bound window, note I do imagine he would still have his slow recovery of 3 seconds during it (on top of needing to possibly wait ~1 second) but I do agree it takes away run away time so it might be better off without it.
As for infection; let me elaborate.
The third dash, if ever implemented, would probably work like Ghoul where if you lose your third dash while about to lose it you keep going and complete it. I don't see too many complications with it other than the fact there is less of a warning. But I don't like that idea anyway.
As for my other proposition, I imagined it would work like Hillbilly's Overdrive where it also affects muscle memory but greatly benefits. With max infection more frequent (70 seconds when a survivor is left alone) I thought it might be a more unique way of giving him something extra. But I understand it is a lot of numbers for a moment that may never even happen. I mainly just want something other than hinderance.
Honestly, I would be happy if they removed hinderance and gave him the infection charge buffs as compensation, leaving insta-down as the main reward for a fully infected survivor.
Face slamming is the #1 thing I would like fixed or changed on him to be honest, I feel like that is my biggest pain point with him. I do wonder what increasing the activation box when specifically hitting a window would do but I'm scared that would cause issues (especially with how thin some walls are)
Thoughts on making hug-tech more accessible on him? -
@albertoplus said:
What i dont understand is the shadow nerf on his survivor vaulting grab animation.
When he was released he could hit (or grab) survivors that were on the vaulting animation like every other M2 killer can. Then time after that a bug did arise where he was able to grab survivors when they were already on the other side of the window and actually "teleport" them with your grab on your side again.
Then behavior fixed that bug but for some reason they also hard nerfed his grab when trying to grab a vaulting survivor. Now to grab a survivor you need to grab them at the moment the vaulting animation starts (while literally any other killer can also hit the survivor with their M2 while mid-vault, hell sometimes even when the animation is finishing and the survivor is at the other side of the window), so now most of the time you try to grab a survivor in the vaulting animation Wesker just "bumps" in the window, literally going through the survivor body but not hitting them.
At the meanwhile, survivors can STILL go through Wesker when he vaults a pallet and vault it back before Wesker can attack. Its just not as easy as before, but still doable.
Ideally he should be slapping them but unfortunately he just be bumping. Out of everything related to Wesker that is the #1 thing I hope gets changed / fixed because it feels awful to miss a hit or vault because I used my ability slightly too early. I kinda wish he could do what Kaneki does and grab survivors within a certain range of the window but that might cause problems with other thin walls…
On the topic that survivors can still go through Wesker after vaulting; really hope they increase the time in which he can injure because its so annoying, or make him more physical? -
@GeneralV said:
I think he is in an acceptable state, tbh. Still slightly overtuned, but better than he was before the Infection nerf.
I mean that balance-wise, of course. I still strongly despise Wesker, would be the killer I hate most if it wasn't for Ghoul.
Im curious as why you hate Wesker so much and find him overtuned? He had a big nerf to his infection (which I think should be reworked to do something else rather than hinder) and the buffs he did get were fairly minor (except the one from 3 years ago that made him nicer to play).
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@Elan said:
Another post about giving balanced killer an absolute massive rework that will mess any current balance state and will result in nerf-buff-nerf-buff. Wesker is already 2nd most played killer and doesn't truly struggle if you are good with him. What's the point of buffing already strong killers? This is not even some reasonable tweak, like shorter cooldown for only one bound used. This is massive rework to whole his kit, who already is a very good killer. Why? There are plenty of killers on the list that must be looked at before Wesker is touched. And if rework like this happens than the base game would also need some tuning. Waste of resources that can be focus around truly needed things.
I agree, there are many other killers that should be looked at before Wesker. However, there are still pain points within his kit. Especially the fact that vaulting over stuff half the time does nothing to survivors that get in your face, or when he slams his face into a survivor in an animation (vaulting / dropping pallet) and nothing happens. Did I over do it? Maybe, if so I would say pick and choose specifics. For instance, maybe leave the bound numbers alone but keep speed buffs. Change how infection works but leave it at 100 charges, etc.
Does he need it the most? No, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt talk about it. Plus, calling it a waste of resources for a hypothetical idea is a bit harsh considering majority are slight number changes, which also makes me want to say its less of a rework and more of an update as its not adding substantial changes to how he plays (except maybe canceling during chain bound but I can live without that). Edit: Scratch that I said rework infection but still feel like they would call it an update?
Curious on your thoughts on the Pyramid Head base power changes? -
@[Deleted User] said:
I think it's more of a case that other killers need to be brought down (or up, and no higher) to his level and the overall game needs to be balanced in such a way that match time is standardized (important distinction from "slowed down"…no gens don't need to take 1250602 seconds) so they can actually balance things (in this case killer powers) sensibly. I don't think Wesker in particular needs a bunch of buffs (definitely bug fixes), and certainly nothing that changes the core of how his power designed (so nothing like "he can cancel his bounds manually now").
In my mind he really is the gold standard of what a chase power in DbD should be capable of, and I don't think he needs to be injected with balance steroids targeting his lethality (like Clown was recently) just because they refuse to address the inherent problem of "how do we make a slower/more linear killer work in a game where people are used to facing Ghoul/Nurse". Making killers more directly lethal by just buffing their numbers to the point where their main counterplay is to minimize engaging with them at all is just a horrible design philosophy. We need a baseline understanding that chases should be fun for both sides, and I feel like a lot of killers & killer buffs have completely thrown that idea out the window. But I digress.
I would like to see Wesker's bound camera sensitivity reduction removed in favor of a max angle restriction. It'd be a lot more comfortable (especially on controller) and it'd open up his ability to manipulate survivor positioning (Urobending) with more consistency.
I do think Wesker is a really good ideal killer in dbd, through his animations, power design being simple, and personality through voice lines (though not every killer needs voice lines). I will say I have to disagree on the idea his core design shouldnt be changed, specifically how infection works. I made another post regarding changes I would make under Suggestions and I give a rework infection idea. Though, I did list a lot of buffs I would like on him (though most are QoL tbh as compared to other killers he can be a little clunky). Honestly I am curious on your thoughts on the changes I bring up.
Do note I mention wanting being able to Cancel his bound during the chain window, however originally I was thinking you needed to wait 0.8 second before being able to cancel it (as opposed to instantly or just waiting the full 3 seconds). So let me know what you think. (Actually imma edit that in now) -
@tes said:
They need provide more clear code on him, so any insta hug techs, and everything else people using on him had more clear conditions that both killer and survivors understand.
Especially if we remember tech when he is slide around pallet if catching a timing after dropping.
Like idea that infection doesn’t provide hindered. That makes his main ability small buffs justified
Honestly I imagine hug techs would still activate the same way they currently do, just with a much bigger window. Most of the time (not all) it is fairly easy to tell if Wesker is going for a hug tech as they need to do a little shimmie (though that may change if the window to do it increases).
Definitely believe infection needs a slight rework, given how hard it is to reach max infection + even get a survivor max infection. I probably overdid it with the buffs but these are just all my ideas poured into one. Even though I mentioned it, I hope they go for a unique mechanic rather than "max infection gives third dash". -
@UndeddJester said:
A bound cancel like Kaneki?
Faster mid bound movement, making Egg even stronger?
Shorter recovery times, less reaction time for his wind up, faster and further bounds?
Vault recovery becomes even faster, while also making the window to vault back through the window even smaller, likely impossible, without getting hit?
Make his techs more universally accessible as well, which make him exceedingly hard to deal with?
The changes to infection and such are interesting, removal of hindered for instead an extra bound is an interesting direction, which has a lot of points of discussion in its own right... but it's pretty hard to factor that in conjunction with also hitting every area of counterplay against his bound Survivors have?
I assume you must have played against triple bound Wesker in 2vs8 at some point? A good Wesker who could tech with triple bound was a monster, hard to juke him twice, let alone juke him 3 times.
There are definitely some interesting and good suggestions here to improve Wesker... but with them all added together? This is a pretty lop sided set of changes my man 😶😶😶
Okay so for some reason when I hit quote it just… didnt quote. Refer to my comment above as a reply.
Edit: Also forgot to mention, egg wouldnt be stronger if it got nerfed, as with other add ons. Im assuming adjustments would be made to where some add ons numbers get reduced or reworked entirely. (Though I wish whenever an add on got adjusted they would just rework it anyway because some become incredibly useless, Im looking at YOU Potion of Speed for The Lich.) -
Yeah, thats why I gave a different idea instead of just "give him a third bound"
For max infection Im not saying this AND that, Im saying this OR that. Though I do understand I mainly did buffs, there are still a lot of things that have not changed such as cooldowns for when he misses or not.
Originally I had an idea that you had to wait 0.8 seconds before canceling during the chain bound window, but that felt a little funky in my head. Might be a good idea though if canceling is too powerful. -
@Sothis said:
I like these changes! I think the ones for his bound, i.e his cool-downs and movement speeds are really good, and even if the numbers themselves are too strong, I think the general direction is good and something that should be implemented.
I agree that the infection should be reworked a bit, the hinder is a but underwhelming for both sides honestly. I would love him to have 3 dashes lol but I don’t think many others would like that unfortunately, and I’d think he’d absolutely need the ability to cancel his power between bounds or have a lower cool down if he were to have 3 bounds.
I like the other changes you suggest with infection. However I’d like to mention that perhaps increasing bound duration (I assume you mean how long each bound lasts for, and therefore how far Wesker moves per dash) could be tricky because it would make it very hard to get his dash distance down with muscle memory since the distance would be changing constantly mid match. At least personally I would find that kind of off putting, but that might just be me. Though to be fair Wesker can already change his dash distance with his addons but those distances will be constant within a game, only changing after a game if you change the addons.But yeah I really like these changes. I hope one day I’ll see them in actual patch notes!
Yeah honestly after typing this I realized that too, but honestly I feel like thats a problem with many other killers anyway. For instance: Victor pounce add on, Pig ambush charge add on, heck even Hillbilly speed. But that would also get mitigated by the fact you can cancel at ANY time, even during a bound. Which might open up new interesting opportunities, so who knows.
What if instead of just cancelling, one tap made you pause in place to do a second bound? or would that be insane. Do its either third dash or my insane idea. -
@Sothis said:
I 100% agree. He has fallen off quite a lot since his release, and honestly, I don’t think it’s majorly to the fault of any nerfs or anything. He hasn’t really changed too significantly since his release, so I really think it’s just a case of his power being a new archetype, which took a little while for people to adapt to, at which point he settled in his place amongst the other killers. Honestly I feel like modern map and loop design is what hurts him most. Having so many loops cluttered with random tires, barrels or weirdly shaped obstacles makes his linear dashes very difficult to use. Even with the hug tech, it’s still feels pretty weak at loops that aren’t just a quadrilateral of some kind, especially when considering the counter play to hug techs themselves, and how high the execution requirement for some of them are for minimal reward at times.
His vault bug is so annoying, it’s a common case where if you dash at a vaulting survivor (on a pallet or window), you’ll be too late to hit the vaulting survivor, but too early to vault after the survivor, and so you’ll just awkwardly hump the window and do nothing.
Similarly, if you do manage to vault a window or pallet after a survivor, they can very easily walk into you and vault straight through you. He is supposed to have the same mechanic as Kaneki where he automatically hits you if you’re too close to him when he vaults but from personal experience, this mechanic seems to be bugged on Wesker, or extremely easy to avoid because I’ve had people vault through me numerous times.
Another thing I’ve found quite frustrating is his inability to cancel his power between dashes. If you use his first dash, you have to either use his second dash, or wait for 2 seconds (3 if you’re using egg) before your power goes on cooldown (which is another slow and long animation). I really wish it was similar to Kaneki, with Wesker being able to cancel his dash and automatically elapse the bound window after using the first dash if he doesn’t want to use the second. It would make using his power for mobility much more feasible in more clustered and enclosed areas.
I could go on forever honestly. His collision, his bound charge time, charge movement speed, movement speed between bounds or his power cool down all feel like too many weaknesses for very few benefits. I get that people believe he is very well balanced, but I can’t help but constantly feel limited by his kit. Ignoring all the bugs and unintended issues affecting Wesker, the numbers on his kit make him feel really sluggish and honestly makes his power an inconvenience to use as the killer at times, especially when you compare him to other killers with much more flexible mobility like Kaneki, Blight or Hillbilly. Hell, from what I've seen of the new Pig ambush, it genuinely looks like its better as an anti-loop in many situations than Wesker's dash, but idk that might just be me.I definitely understand how you feel in this post, its like he became outdated and its really sad to see because grabbing survivors is awesome. I would 100% love hug tech to be an accepted and managed feature in the game (increasing accessibility) as well as being able to cancel power between dashes. Definitely needs some work under the hood as well (survivors vaulting not interacting how you would expect, him just slamming his face on pallets / windows)
Curious on what you think of my suggested changes though I did forget some things
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/453402/changes-i-would-like-to-see-on-wesker/p1?new=1 -
@VortexVentamy said:
When Wesker first released, it was the most interesting release we had in a good while. Not only was it the first sequel chapter, but it introduced a specific type of dash archetype that the fans seem to really like. And honestly, it was great. However, over the years as we have gotten more killers to fit this niche in various ways, I notice a decline in enjoying playing Wesker.
As patches have gone by, there has been a number of nerfs and bugs that have been holding this killer down for years. I'm talking about frustrations like not hitting / vaulting a pallet / window because you didnt time it EXACTLY as the survivor finishes their animation. The nerfs to his hinderance being from 8% to 4% with zero compensation. I'm talking about the fact that his token recharge rate is TWICE as long as Ghoul's when enraged and STILL longer than Ghoul's when not enraged.
Wesker is in a sad state right now where his enjoyment comes from the fact he can grab and throw survivors. But with so many little issues I just cannot find myself to enjoy him, especially with how funky some maps can be with him. Looking at you Mother's Dwelling bushes and random hidden rocks on Coldwind.
But I want to know what you all think, is Wesker okay? Does he need any changes? I'm writing a suggestion titled "Changes I Would Like To See on Wesker" so you can judge me more on what I think should happen there.
Hey y'all please feel free to check out "Changes I Would Like to See on Wesker" in Suggestions to get an idea of maybe something I personally would like. However there are definitely other ways to go about making Wesker feel better, either by leaning towards his speed as a superhuman or perhaps leaning into the idea of him being a Mastermind by increasing information and calculations (blocking the pathways of survivors).
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847012#Comment_3847012
I'm refering to double iri play style. It takes way too long to build up stalk due to survivors deliberately getting up close hiding behind a loop knowing stalk is useless at that distance and also knowing Myers has no anti loop. Stalking unseen is great going against solo but in swf teams it's really not possible to stalk unseen from a distance especially on certain maps like Hawkins. It is definitely a nerf due to survivors ability to counter it. At least before if a survivor tried looping Myers then it meant he could build stalk. It's just a matter of time before more and more survivors learn to counter it like they have in my matches as I'm always going against swf. I have tried survivor and been up against Myers a few times. It was 3 escape each time, it never used to be the case before. It used to be "oh **** it's Myers".... Now it's "easy loop Myers"
You're saying the Myers changes are a nerf… specifically to double iri "play style"? The two perks that got nerfed because they felt a bit unfair?
Personally I find these changes to be a buff to Myers, it is so much easier to tier up and stalk from a multitude of maps. In addition to this if survivors are running away I actually get more stalk faster. If they are breaking line of sight then they are simply playing correctly, like how Myers has always been.
If anything Myers is more stealthy thanks to these changes, simply '99 before going into tier three though this is assuming you are playing normal Myers which I guess may not be the case. -
One complaint I would also add is the fact that, when going into Customizations, it automatically takes you to the head piece rather than a full outfit. Ruins the flow of going through and just does not feel right.
Personally, I wish they moved Bio and Customization to be their own buttons on the left (like how it kinda used to be with the addition of Bio), but if we must have this version I hope it gets better in the future. -
This is an amazing post. I originally made one about this as well, lots of our feedback being similar but you hit topics I did not even think of and put in the effort to make really informative pictures. Really nicely done!
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@VortexVentamy said:
I've reported this issue before and supposedly fixed it by uninstalling and reinstalling dbd. It fixed it for a bit but it occurred again and I do not know why. I tried validifying files without uninstalling but that didn't work. I do not know what is wrong or what is causing it.
more importantly the start up is RIGHT on the loading screen like first frame
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/414021/more-information-given-for-end-screen
I wouldn't be against this, I upload my matches to Nightlight and often forget these things.
Whole reason I made this honestly haha, just started recently
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Reinstalling fixed it! Still do not know what the issue was, guess files just needed to be verified possibly
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It's meh, but in my opinion I still think it can be really strong. Sure, it is not the same as before but it is still a lot of useful information for you and your team! Every 30 seconds you see killer, if killer has aura reading you know, and all this can be relayed to teams in comms. Plus now it helps with actions if you see the killer's aura! Overall I think it is better than people say it is.
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@VortexVentamy said:
About last year, Dead by Daylight announced that they would be gradually adding iridescent pricing to all original outfits to both existing and future. However I have noticed that there are still a lot of original outfits that do not have iridescent pricing. Why is that?
I'm mainly saying for some newer outfits, but it would make sense if there was a grace period of "no iri shards" for fire moon and cat outfits for killers
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I knew I was not crazy when using his power and thinking the camera felt different!
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I think idea 2 has to be my favorite, how one basically gets more powerful overtime. Another thought that I had was that the endurance effect stays BUT when you pick up someone off the ground/heal you get around 15-30 seconds of Exhaustion. That way, the speed disables but the Endurance effect is still usable with that perk alone.
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There are probably more important things than this now thinking about it
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@Jessicanity said:
I'm having this issue, and it's also causing the archive challenge to repair 2 gens with other survivors while using this perk to not work.
My only guess is that it's ping related, since I'm usually playing at 200-300 ping to be able to play with my friends who are across the world from me. (And based on this reddit post that someone suggested that was the issue https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/139n3v0/friendly_competition_bugged_for_everyone_or_just/).
The perk doesn't activate, and the challenge doesn't progress; tried multiple times on different gens with other survivors. My other perks were Adrenaline, Empathy, and For The People, for what it's worth, but I doubt they're related.
I also play with people across countries! So this is probably my issue as well, thank you!
Edit: The reason I posted this was because the challenge was not progressing for me either.
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@squbax said:
I love playing dredge, this happens often when you start playing him and getting used to it, but it becomes a non issue later at least for me, imo the controls are better like that because its easier to react with a click, so the remnant can be used better in a quick chase.
That is fair that the controls be something one gets use to, I still feel it would make more sense that it is the other way around. But I do understand the quickness of teleporting back to remnant.
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@CommandantCraky said:
I explained it very poorly but if you charge a lunge at the very last second of your frenzy, and it hit the survivor with your gauge power at 0, it will reset the entire frenzy chain. If I wasn't an idiot on this clip above I could've stack more than 10 hits, i reported this bug 2 weeks ago and still no answer from the devs btw.
Ohhh that explains it. Yeah that must have happen to me too, because I know I try to get those last second hits. I hope this bug gets fixed sometime.
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@XmutanoX said:
It was bugged for me aswell, 3 games with legion, all 3 of them the 5th hit didn't down, one of the games i even hit 6 times because the 5th was on a person already mended so the 5th hit made it mend and the 6th did nothing at all
https://clips.twitch.tv/WanderingColdbloodedArtichokeSwiftRage-HUOsR9Yr-BB1la6e
clip proof
I believe that happened to me, NOTE I WAS ALSO ON MEAT PLANT!
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@Kub said:
Im just played 3 games with fat legion and can down just fine. Even people who mend themself.
Interesting, thank you! Maybe there was something I missed and I am just confused haha
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..
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@Bassador said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3007633#Comment_3007633
Wasn’t in nightfall at the time either.
If the survivor is Oblivious somehow, then it also does not work. If that is not the case then yeah thats weird
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@Bassador said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/329014/starstruck-not-working-as-intended
Edit: Sometimes works, sometimes doesn’t.
If you're in nightfall it doesnt work because you have no terror radius (Undetectable)
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Ohhh ok by bad.