UnicornMedal
UnicornMedal
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You can't just start the post like that without telling us. 😭😭😭
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062357#Comment_4062357
I only called you out based on your own posts about her competency which you clearly don’t know. Another poster already hit the nail on the head when it came to her while i was at work and didn’t feel the need to elaborate.
Again, I reiterate. You clearly know best.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062354#Comment_4062354
so basically this entire thread where you said she was a bad character you never even played the game to know her. Got it.
I never said she was a bad character. I said I don't like her and that I don't find her to be elevated above other characters in the franchise. You claimed she was awesome and hit an unspecified benchmark and when I asked you to clarify, you never did. Likewise, I find it ironic that you're claiming to have been a fan since 1996 and implied you've never taken a break ("fan since the beginning"), while also being the arbiter of who has actually played the games and who hasn't. That's a very lofty position to have. Hats off to you. 😎
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Additionally, I think DCs should be less penalized. After Abandon was introduced, there's a new thread weekly asking for a new condition to be added. Seems more productive to just let it happen in my opinion.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062350#Comment_4062350
she doesn’t wield it effortlessly the first time she fires it is hilarious.
She wags her wrist instead of dropping it or smacking herself in the face. 😵
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062275#Comment_4062275
PvP is competitive by default.
OK but if we look outside of the box, it's obvious that some PVPs are designed to be more causal than others. DBD's win conditions are vague at best, for instance. The model they've been going off of for a while now involves making minimal changes to that model while adding in a level of responsibility you'd expect from an Esport. Naturally that's very unstable.
@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062275#Comment_4062275
That's not entirely true, Trapper is probably is one of the most popular killers that gets requested for a rework, I don't know anyone who would want him to stay the way it is. The same thing was true for Freddy.
But how many Trapper mains want him changed completely versus buffs like being able to hold more traps at once? If he suddenly became a dash Killer, that would attract a new audience but likely isolate his existing one.
Freddy is a good example too. He has been changed so dramatically since his first iteration than he's kind of for nobody now. Doesn't seem to offer the experience that his previous mains want, while also not being as powerful as any given new release Killer.
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@Royval said:
Really wish they hadn’t made Chris and Claire legendary skins I know they regret it everyday
Seriously. They're my two favorite characters in the franchise. I would've loved an OG CODE:Veronica Claire and an RE5 Chris.
@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062216#Comment_4062216
I think that what sets Grace a bit apart from the rest of the main cast is that, for once, she has almost zero true training (she's FBI, but not a field agent) and she's little more than a traumatized girl trying to survive at first. Literally every other RE protags were either trained to some degree or special in some way (Ethan might not have had official training before RE7, but he wasn't just a normal dude either for 99% of RE7 and got training from Chris between RE7 and 8. Claire wasn't as trained as her brother before RE2 but Chris taught her a little.)
Grace literally stumbles when running and shakes her hands when using the Requiem (aka the wrist-breaker 3000), her "melee" against zombies is just pushing them. Her gameplay is much different than most RE characters in the past.
I understand your point, but she's definitely not the first. I would still count Ethan and Claire in their first titles. Plus you have Steve, the majority of the Outbreak cast, Ashley, Moira, and the Resistance cast. I never played the additional 8 chapter but I'd assume Rose too.
She's still wielding the Requiem effortlessly overall and can take potshots like Alyssa. And her gameplay is largely based on Ethan's. I don't think either of those are a bad thing, for the record. Gameplay is very important. I just don't know that that makes her one of the most important characters.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062271#Comment_4062271
What I don’t understand about your logic is this, who are these killers going on win streaks in the hundreds?
If you’re talking about specific pro players doing that with high skill-ceiling killers, how can that realistically be used in a balance discussion? These players are playing near perfectly every match on killers they have thousands of hours on.
Also, why is it that many high-level SWFs who go on win streaks end up having those streaks broken by another well-known high-level killer player? These players are all competing within an extremely small bracket at high MMR. Statistically, they’re almost invisible compared to the overall player base, even at high MMR.
You can’t make the point that tunneling is OP and then use examples of pro players that most people will never encounter in their games. Statistically, the tunneling killers people face in most matches, even at high MMR, don’t have the skill level to ever get anywhere close to something like a 1,800 win streak.
Another thing to consider is why survivors would ever go on longer win streaks than killers in the first place. A survivor team has many variables that determine its effectiveness: coordination, individual skill levels, perk choices, and communication. All of that has to align across four different players.
For a killer, the main variables are the player’s skill and the killer they choose. If you take a very good player and put them on a strong killer with an optimal perk build, it’s natural that they’ll go on longer win streaks than a four-person survivor team where multiple variables can affect the outcome.
Because of that, it’s expected that killers will have longer win streaks. With survivors, the outcome depends on the performance of four separate players, not just one. And we’ve even seen data showing that most of the player base in all MMR brackets consists of solo queue players, which significantly reduces the overall effectiveness of survivor teams against a very good killer player, regardless of the MMR bracket.
Pro players are the ones we have evidence for. I don't think they're the only ones.
As far as tunneling goes, your argument just explained why it should be examined. Speaking ideally of course.
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They've backed themselves into a corner there. Legacy content has a strong following of players that like them as they are. Buffing them or nerfing them strips those elements of their identity. The shift to more competitive play has made it so that everything is viewed through that lens and yet nothing seems to be getting better.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061942#Comment_4061942
I find it there is a difference between stuff being nerfed but non-intrusive and literally rail roading you into a certain playstyle or there goes your chances of winning against people with brains as a majority of the roster. You know its bad that when even a previous developer came out of the woodwork and say some changes would have been bad.
Overall, the anti-tunnel and camp systems were huge failures as it didn't hit the mark to make weaker killers stronger as the buff they got for unique hooking was hit by a compensation nerf to playing efficiently in the first iteration of the anti-killer system while the second literally was no incentive at all. Seriously why were we going to punishing one role for playing efficiently but not the other?Not trying to lay this all on your doorstep, but the logic last year is so insane to me. Phase 1 included a full PTB followed by a week live of players getting harsh DC penalties during the game for playing normally, which is still active in the game but only reduced. By comparison, anti-tunnel/slug/camp only got 2 days in the PTB before it was pulled.
I really don't know what more evidence we need that they prioritize one role over the other. There used to be at least some ambiguity about it. But we keep playing this game where we have to agree that Killer is eternally in a bad spot.
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@BaronOfSealandTV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062183#Comment_4062183
I agree the Viktor debate shows how messy the optics can get, but I’m trying to stick to what BHVR has actually stated. Is it still their official position that everyone in the Entity’s realm is 18+? If there’s a newer statement contradicting that, I’d like to see it.
I think you'd only have success pestering them over reddit or the livestreams. And even then you're probably gonna be waiting. Genuinely, good luck to you though. It's not easy getting them to answer anything.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062220#Comment_4062220
I don't think it's possible to have that discussion without tunneling. Without tunneling or hook swapping, there's no reason for the mechanic.
Im asking if their is a balance reason for the nerf. I didnt want to asume OP thinks tunneling is OP because he didnt say it.
I honestly don’t understand why we must keep going down the tunneling rabbit hole. There’s already so much counterplay around it, and it keeps getting repeated over and over. There are even base-kit protections against it. Its effectiveness is largely determined by the skill level of both the killer and the survivors.
It’s not even always the right strategy. Sometimes tunneling can cost you the game, and sometimes it can win you the game. There are so many variables involved, perks, coordination, whether you’re facing a swf, killer choice, etc.
A good SWF can destroy a tunneler. We have coordinated teams showing up with toolboxes and anti-tunnel or exhaustion perks in Discord, destroying any killer that isn’t playing the strongest killers and also playing near perfect. Against good SWFs, tunneling can easily cost you the game. Even if your a good killer.
Yet people still keep going down the same rabbit hole.
Because there has never been anything done about it. We can see how successful tunneling is when Killers go on kill streaks in the hundreds. We see it often in our trials. Yet it's not considered a big deal.
However I agree with you. 2025 especially made it clear that they want tunneling to stay the way that it is, even when it negatively impacts the game. BHVR is always right at the end of the day and all we're doing is wasting our breath if we say anything they don't want to hear. It's like writing college papers again. 😵
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Absolutely not. Their data shows that SWFs are not very common and they perform about as well as solo. Adding checks and balances for it would only increase paranoia as well, which has always been rampant. Everything gets blamed on them regardless of what happened.
If we were concerned about fairness, we wouldn't have Killers like Ghoul running around alongside a reinforced 60/40 KR.
@Royval said:
add vc everything is solved
Literally. BHVR doesn't want to police it and players are too scared of it, but having the option would solve all of these claims. Realistically most people would mute it and continue talking over Discord anyway.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062180#Comment_4062180
Its because alot of the changes that where promised where scarped or so minor
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ACHXOLGSVU7Q/image.png
We have stuff like "reduced login steps" that removes one button you press when launching the game that is such a minor QoL change in the grand scope of things.
I marked spawn rules as yellow because I see complaints that it does not work correctly
Off topic but did console folks ever get the keyboard and mouse option?Yeah exactly. All that it did was cause a ton of problems and upset people. Which in the grand scheme of things is every year of DBD. 😭
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061961#Comment_4061961
Its okay! No harm done. And i do genuinely understand the depth of feeling here i get how frustrating it is when its a character that you've invested time and BP into. The decision is not in my hands here all me and my team can do is pass on the feedback
I don't want to assume too much but I feel like it would be worth bringing up more often now that you're in the streams. You're essentially our representative and we don't feel as if we're being heard.
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@MarbleThrone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4059225#Comment_4059225
But they're both shown in the portrait … surely there can be a badge for him, or one where they're both shown? 😥
Yeah, not sure why they couldn't just reward two for them. It's not as if it saves too many resources when they're drawing them both anyway.
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Are the offerings still nerfed? Descriptions definitely need another pass. I know of at least one that says it increases the chance of an event but it's actually guaranteed.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062216#Comment_4062216
jake was an awful character in an awful video game largely panned as the worst in franchise.
Grace is a great character in a great video game largely adored and considered a massive goty contender. Grace was everything she was supposed to be for what capcom wanted. They absolutely nailed it.
And yet Requiem uses several elements from that game as its backbone. 🤔 It's fairly evident that it's meant to be a reimagining of 5, 6, Revelations 2, and Umbrella Corps. If they were so bad, they wouldn't even be worth retracing.
What makes her great though? What did they want and what did they nail?
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062107#Comment_4062107
The tunneling discussion is a separate topic for another thread, so I won’t get into that here.
Focusing on the change being suggested, what would be the balance reason for removing the base-kit unhook notification beyond the reasons already mentioned?
If a core piece of killer information is going to be nerfed, I think there should be a clear explanation of how that information currently creates a balance issue.
I also think it’s important not to assume intentions or arguments someone didn’t actually state. Even if something might be implied, it’s better to discuss the reasons that were actually given.
I’m just asking for a bit more clarity and transparency about the reasoning behind the change.
I don't think it's possible to have that discussion without tunneling. Without tunneling or hook swapping, there's no reason for the mechanic.
I will say rest assured, though. 2025 showed that there is no real attempt being made at combating tunneling, so the notifications will likely stay. As will the "feature" that blocks the Killer's aura during a hook.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062051#Comment_4062051
While you’re right about most characters being forgotten, you’re dead wrong about grace. I’ve been a fan on the franchise since the beginning and grace is the best character in a very long time.
You're entitled to your opinion. I just don't personally see what sets her apart from any other side characters we've had over the years other than her having inflated significance in one title. Jake had a very similar role in 6 and also came out of nowhere but was easily forgotten. Again, get back to me in a year or two and tell me if you still care about her as much as you care about the main cast.
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Call me crazy but I don't suspect that Capcom is interested in having crossovers with non-remake content. We might get a Requiem outfit for Leon, but I think for Killer we might be more likely to have Saddler or something.
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To be fair, I don't think DBD operates like any other game at all. 😵 Everything, from gameplay to menus to leaving feedback, is a struggle for control.
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I remember them getting really upset when people were calling Viktor a baby, but he literally is. We all feel the same about that "but he's 1,000 years old bro" reasoning right? 😵 Granted it's not that big of a deal since he's just a weird little set piece and nothing more. But if it's such an issue having minors as characters in the game, why add them at all to begin with? They're just creating problems for themselves.
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It feels obvious why this is happening. The game is not maintained as well as it should be so I'm assuming people hack to gain some level of autonomy. Add to that the amount of free copies handed out and like you mention OP not a whole lot being done about it other than implementing EAC which is unstable enough as is.
This is just one of those areas where you see that BHVR does not care as much as they claim.
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If we're being so for real, there was no operation health. If you were to look at 2025 compared to any other year with the game, it would be indistinguishable.
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@Sepi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061266#Comment_4061266
im talking about the perks that are absolutely too weak. etc about 60% of the perks. thyese perks set your whole team at a disadvantage bcs of the current state of dbd. this game is SUPER competitive and both survs and the killer need to feel to sweat cuz if they don't the other one will win 100%. the perks are useless and will 99% of the time do nothing for you. only the meta perks are worth running if you want to win against an experienced killer
That's why I'm saying some perks should remain untouched. No Mither is one, Nic Cage's perks are three others. The game going full sweat is legit, but I don't think that's reason alone to change niche perks. Stripping away their identity to make them more competitive is a bad call.
Something like Potential Energy is a great example of what should be changed in my opinion. It has an effect but it doesn't really work the way you'd expect it to and it doesn't synergize much with other perks, so there's no real incentive to run it. Lots of dead perks like that.
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@stealthyflash67 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062054#Comment_4062054
Dont killers just slug for the 4k? and have hatch never spawn? or did they change that?.
They do and it's still effective. There's also a delay on when it opens still. But you can bring offerings, items, and perks that raise your chances of getting it.
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@HOMOGRIMOIRE said:
@UnicornMedal Honestly, yeah, ppl probably just want some morality related excuse or whatever to hate him because they just dont like him, and like, if someone just dont like him, go ahead! You dont need to have some deep reasoning for it, you can just simply not like something. Idk why ppl just cant be like that. But, I got real tired of hearing people spread misinfo about his lore to justify hating him, so thats why i wrote this. Hopefully, it'll do something. I doubt as many ppl would actually hate him if they actually understood his lore instead of just listening to whatever misinfo dbdtwt has to spread. So, I'll just hope.
Unrelated to Jonah, i personally like The Importance of Being King. Though, i dont view it as a coming out story. I view it as a story about self acceptance. David doesn't really have people he needed/wanted to come out to. He's already estranged/disowned from his family without them even knowing he's gay, he's only got like, 2 confirmed friends, one he was trying to help clear the debts of, mentioned in earlier lore and not mentioned in his second tome, and the bartender Ric, who already knew and was trying to help David come to terms with it. Theres no one for him to come out to, and almost no one for him in general, because his internalized homophobia led to him isolating himself and lashing out at others and pushing Tristan away. That just leaves only himself. The only one that has to comes to terms with it is his self. So, it's a story about self acceptance. It just makes more sense to me and is more beautiful to me that way at least.
For sure.
My reasons for disliking it are fairly complex and would not go over well. 😵 But if you're a gay man and you're aware of how gay literature has nothing to do with gay men, you see it. I would've appreciated it more as an authentic story rather than something the writer put on like a costume. But that's just me.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062047#Comment_4062047
What did you not like about Grace?
The game is a reimagining of 5, 6, and Revelations 2 and she acted as the Natalia. That archetype I didn't find that interesting then and I still don't. Beyond that, the stuttering was really silly and awkward and not in a good way. 😵 It all sort of blended into a manic pixie thing for me.
Loved Leon's portrayal though, which is a relief because I really disliked Chris in 7 and 8 and he's one of my favorite characters.
@bombovoz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062051#Comment_4062051
I don’t think so. Some characters stay popular because of how well they’re written and how players connect with them. For many people, Grace was one of the most memorable parts of Requiem.
Time will tell, but I think she has the potential to become a fan favorite.
Grace is also brand new. Look how the Winters family has aged, for instance. People still do love characters over time. For instance, I've always liked Billy. But I know that I'm a minority.
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@stealthyflash67 said:
have you seen survivor mains say, survivor is easy?
I don't know if I'd call them mains, but I do see people that play for hatch claim it's easy. But like Nurse, they're playing a different game.
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@bombovoz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062047#Comment_4062047
Grace is the best new Resident Evil character in years.
I disagree. I think once the dust settles and the novelty wears off, she'll likely be forgotten. It's happens to every character that isn't in the first 2 games.
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I learned during The Importance Of Being A King that the fandom will ignore genuinely problematic lore (before anyone jumps down my throat, it's how they wrote his coming out, not that he came out) and defend low quality content as long as it fits their own narrative.
The reality is that they probably just don't like Jonah's appearance or something really banal like that and they throw out a bunch of moral reasons that don't add up and likely don't even personally affect them.
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To be honest, I can't stand Grace. Really displeased with how they handled Alyssa too because she was my main back in the 2000s. 😤 But it is interesting that the new characters haven't been featured in any official collabs. Might be a Capcom thing.
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I only play with friends these days. You're right that it is a 15 minute commitment, but there are a lot better things I can be doing in that time. At least with friends, it's more about hanging out than anything else.
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@Tarn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061905#Comment_4061905
That 2nd part goes for both roles for the feeling of fatigue it's not exclusive to survivors. With a game with 10 years under its belt people are going to end up tired of it or using the best stuff.
Killer powers have gotten stronger but perks for them have been grounded up and pushed away. Where as the survivor perks have gotten stronger for less skilled individuals. While letting them having less then (and/or) absolute zero reasons to actually interact with the killers.
Fatigue is definitely strong. I disagree with the last point though. New Survivor perks are a snooze fest and useful older perks keep getting sniped, while new Killers continue to be packaged with strong powers (at least initally) and viable perks. But I will say perk variety has always been an issue for the game overall. It's just getting worse.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4059215#Comment_4059215
there is no plans for one for Braemar, Aestri is the default - so it will be the same for Legion as well.
Speaking of, can we please get an update on Baermar? All of his cosmetics have belonged to Aestri for nearly a year now. A statement like this coming now makes it feel like he's irrelevant in the eyes of the team, along with any money we've spent on him.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4059143#Comment_4059143
This is something that got discussed a lot and it was something that we spoke about on the forums, we never intended making this a big thing where people feel they need to strive for P100, it's more of a nice to have for people who have been able to invest the time into a character. If it was a cosmetic it would definitely feel more "valuable" and a must have for want of a better word (also could be problematic for licences etc), which is definitely not intended with prestiging a character.
To be fair, limited cosmetics have been a thing for most of the game's lifespan. I don't see how Prestige would be different than the Legacy or Deep Rift skins. If anything, it'd be more accessible (minus licenses) and would give more of an incentive to sink any hoarded BP.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061412#Comment_4061412
This is why the gameplay has to change on a fundamental level. When everything has been optimized out of the game, and we are stuck in the same monotone gameplay loop, it is time to change how the game is played.
Then we get into the awkward conversation of incentives. With more and more publishers going the "IP holder" route, what would convince a company with a title that's printing money to do anything to change it? I think it's more likely to expect that things will stay the same until it fizzles out, sadly.
Ideally, we would've been playing DBD2 by now with a much better gameplay loop.
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Killer is stressful no doubt, but I feel like it's objective fact at this point that Killer is the easier role. Not only is it designed to win more often than not, you have areas like the endgame (where Killer is strongest) and elements like aura reading that are specifically balanced in their favor.
That being said, Survivors do adapt but it's incredibly difficult to overcome everything stacked against them. They are still losing the strong majority of their trials.
Realistically, if you're falling below the projected 60% KR, that is incredibly rare. The entire game is balanced so that that doesn't happen. I'm not implying anything beyond that, just saying that that isn't the average experience that you might think it is.
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To your first point, DBD is not really built like a typical team game. It expects you to operate like one and punishes you pretty harshly for failing that objective, which is a major component as to why so many trials feel helpless when you're solo. But at the end of the day, the game judges you solely based on your own performance. That creates a scenario where you have to perform for the benefit of others and not yourself for essentially nothing other than the goodness of your heart.
To your second point, I'm gonna be frank, that is a bad excuse. Another major component of why trials feel helpless is that fact that Killer has only gotten stronger over time and is an overly oppressive force to go against for your average solo. Hell, even SWFs are struggling. 2v8 isn't always so pretty either. Blaming players for being fatigued by a system that punishes them and hands them unfair losses even if they play correctly while offering them very little in return is avoidant of the larger problem. It's not just you though—this point has been mirrored for years, even when Survivor was in a worse spot than they are now.
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@Wiccamanplays said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061398#Comment_4061398
You should see some of my Killer matches. Believe me, Killers experience the same thing.
Again, what quantity are we talking? By design, you're meant to win more than you lose as Killer.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061415#Comment_4061415
The only nerfs I can recall on top of my head were the Styptic Agent and Anti-Hemorrage Syringe nerfs and while I am on the belief that being able to heal mid-chase or just gain a 5 endurance mid-chase had to go, mostly because it affected slower or M1 killers more, I 100% agree that the effects they gave them instead are horrible and should have been looked at long ago. I don't remember anything else they nerfed.
The anti-go next system still exists and will punish a Survivor for being tunneled out too quickly. It's rare but it does happen. The current DC system, which effects everybody but was put in place largely because of Survivor, is unchanged too. The proposed changes to Survivor perks from the anti-camp/tunnel/slug mechanics were also kept while those respective mechanics did not.
Pallets were also reverted, but I left that out because it's a change nobody wanted and it was obvious it was going to be undone the moment it was introduced.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061406#Comment_4061406
I appreciate that extra context to your initial comment.
Data only tells part of the picture that's true! But it's also an important factor when developing a game and particularly in balancing - but we don't only work on data, we look at the other aspects…but if the data is telling one story, and the sentiment is saying something else, that's where things get more difficult and then it needs deeper look at what can be adjusted to address the sentiment of one side, whilst not impacting the data.
Believe me, I wish things were easy, but when we're dealing with an asymetrical game, plus two sides of a PvP game - its not as easy as people initially think
I understand, but after a decade of the same problems persisting and the issues that affect our relationship with you guys (TWD stream, the issues on social media with moderation, etc.), what are we supposed to think?
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061402#Comment_4061402
The anti-go next preventions were created to stop survivors from bailing out on other survivors at the beginning of a trial by killing themselves on their first hook. At the very least it brought the upside of stopping survivors from killing themselves on the first hook, which is a well recieved kept change for both sides.
That was a pivot. The answer is that the nerfs proposed to Survivors in 2025 were kept, while a patch that addressed pain points that have persisted for a decade but also affected Killer weren't even given a chance to be experienced.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061401#Comment_4061401
in what way? I'd really like to hear your opinions on this - bearing in mind we're looking at both sides of things consistently not just focusing on one side.
Because it doesn't apply to what the game feels like. Data is important, but it often takes priority I feel without considering elements like fun and satisfying play. If our time feels wasted, that should be taken into account just as much if not more.
Likewise, after 2025, you have to understand that the sentiment that both sides are being looked at is unbelievable. I can't look at how anti-go next/AFK crows were handled compared to anti-tunnel/camp/slug and think that that's actually what's going on behind the scenes. There's an important element of trust that has been damaged and there doesn't seem to be a consistent effort in trying to mend that at all.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061272#Comment_4061272
This is the biggest lie you could have told. The entirety of 2025 was huge failure because they were trying to promote their anti-changes while also offering nothing for killer in return.
They tried to address tunneling and slugging while completely ignoring genrushing and 4-man sabosquads metas, with the only thing they were going to be offering killers were the unique hook benefits, which by the end of their attempt of a health update, they were planning on only giving Bloodlust and Bloodpoints, two completely useless things for a trial. They wanted to give survivors free unhooks, free unbreakables, free stealth and endurance for being unhooked, and all the while locking the ability to regress gens if you played in a certain way. All the while the pallet density update was happening in the background, and they were also planning on nerfing the best killer perks too. It has barely been a year and everyone is already forgetting this mess.
These changes didn't go live because BHVR was too creatively bankrupt to think of any benefits for killer, they were going to give numerous basekit benefits to one side while only offering brownie points to the other. It was a joke and going to be a completely one sided update.And of the changes of 2025, which ones went live and which ones did not? Because I remember an entire PTB of anti-go next and then a patch that actively banned Survivors from the game for playing normally, while the anti-tunnel/camp/slug mechanic lasted 2 days in the PTB before it was pulled.
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@Mandy said:
Its a bit of a mix of things….one is that the killer is not overly strong data wise, so its identifying the areas that players have most concerns with (talking about playing against the killer), and making adjustments without weakening the killer overall - as he's not in a particular place where he needs a nerf. He's a little bit stronger at higher MMR but not much, very much middle of the pack (or close to it), so it's also about assessing priorities and bandwidth as to what needs to be adjusted and where.
Genuinely no offense, but it's stuff like this that makes people feel like you guys are dangerously out of touch.
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@Junylar said:
Daily reminder:
Survivors can leave without penalty the moment they hit the ground.
Killers have to endure for 2 minutes while survivors are teabagging at the gates, no privilege of free leaving whatsoever.
SWF hasn't been addressed for 10 years and counting.
The devs favor survivors, and there are hard proofs of that.
People say this, but the "hard proof" tends to be things like Survivor getting a QOL update right before a major element of their play is nerfed and a busted Killer releases. Remember last year when the forum was in flames over the exit survey not including "gens complete too quickly" after we had a patch that was banning Survivors from the game for getting on a gen immediately after being unhooked and around the same time the anti-camp/slug/tunnel mechanic was rolled back?
The reality is that the game has been balanced primarily with Killers in mind for years now but because nothing will ever be good enough, it's seldom appreciated. At the end of the day, that "proof" is mainly bias and fear (in my opinion).
@Wiccamanplays said:
This sort of us-vs-them attitude doesn't actually help anyone. I play Killer more than Survivor because it's the role I'm best at but I want both roles to be enjoyable, otherwise the game doesn't work. And FWIW the game isn't fun for either role sometimes. Being tunnelled out at 5 gens is not fun. Being slugged for 4 minutes is not fun. Going against a Ghoul with Corrupt, Pain Res, Surge and DMS every other game is not fun. Going against Survivors with four identical meta builds every game is not fun. Losing 3 gens in the first chase because you didn't bring Corrupt and they brought nuclear-powered toolboxes with Stakeout/Hyperfocus is not fun. Getting looped for 5 minutes because the map is bad and/or the Killer you're playing isn't S-tier is not fun. Getting flashied every time you pick up a downed Survivor because they're in comms with each other is not fun. Survivors prerunning and holding W in straight lines to the nearest window/pallet on repeat is not fun. Getting teabagged at the exit gates for 2 minutes is not fun. Having a Survivor DC or give up at 5 gens because they got downed early is not fun. Only winning because solo Survivors lack crucial information or make stupid mistakes, and not because you actually outplayed them, is not fun. Experiencing detrimental bugs that have been in the game for 3 years is not fun. Badham is not fun.
Recognising the current system's pain points for Survivors, especially solo Survivors and more casual players, does not mean denigrating or vilifying Killer players, not least because there's substantial overlap between the two categories.
I agree, but there's a lot of context missing here. If a Survivor can go on a losing streak where they play 10 trials in one evening and don't win a single one (with many being those scenarios you mention), while a Killer can win at least half or more of their trials even if they are frustrating, those are wildly different scenarios.
I think a great start would be balance the game so that dying more isn't equal to losing more. Otherwise you're asking players to be fodder and to deal with that or to not play at all.
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@Galafure said:
@UnicornMedal I gave you props in the other thread. And I agree with you here also. Thank you for commenting.
Thank you. 😎
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In my opinion, BHVR knows best and they will always know best. Our opinions have been "passed along" for years, but it's been clear that we're rarely heard unless we cause a huge backlash or a PR nightmare erupts. How we can go a decade still BEGGING for year 1 changes to be made while staff (who should be our representatives) always appear to be confused as we do is beyond me. Any time there's a glimmer of hope on the horizon that some positive shift will occur, we're met with empty promises.
Right now, Killer is the main concern and anything we have to say about that simply does not matter. 2025 made that crystal clear.