Tsulan
Tsulan
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306527#Comment_3306527
I would not tempt fate if I were the devs. Ignoring community feedback is the surest way to run an ongoing game into the ground.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306529#Comment_3306529
Dude, she's been the go-to Killer for competitive play for YEARS. Everyone's been complaining about her for YEARS. She's been the undisputed queen of the meta practically since people first started trying to play the game seriously. She's often banned in tournaments, including the DbD community cups, which have received official support.
Nurse's kill rate is an excellent example of how statistics can be woefully misleading.
How are the stats misleading? Either she gets kills (like everyone claims) or she doesn´t. Starstruck Nurse that downs everyone at 5 gens (like a video showed) would indicate a high kill rate. But when the other nurse players don´t play optimally, it drags the overall kill rate down. So its actually an exception and/or the survivors playing against her were simply bad. People have been complaining that she´s braindead easy, when she has actually one of the highest skill ceilings.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306530#Comment_3306530
Hate speech, and vicious insults.
Both totally acceptable targets for preventing, even for a game full of adults.
I think it would be more efficient to just ban the people that do those things.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302291#Comment_3302291
You know, I had a wholesome endgame chat for once because the enemy team had a Vittorio who was sandbagging his teammates, pointing to them with his flashlight and doing whatever he could to give them away. So in response, I killed him first. The endgame chat was one of the survivors saying something like "Vittorio was throwing", and I said "Yeah, that's why I killed him first".
The game censored the word "Killed". In a game where the primary goal is killing people's virtual avatars, you are not allowed to say that you killed someone.
The game is rated mature. Why do we even have a profanity filter to begin with, when everyone is supposed to be an adult?
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@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306481#Comment_3306481
It would just be further confirmation that they don’t really know what they are doing when it comes to balance.
Or... and hear me out. They don´t want to make decisions only based on the current opinion of the day. Like they did with the original Freddy release. Where they nerfed him 1 week after his release, because people disconnected against him.
Having the lowest kill rate on average and no particular high kill rate in the top 5% also plays a factor here. As her being unbeatable would reflect in the statistics.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306481#Comment_3306481
A fair number of people would probably say "Huh, I guess now's a good time to quit."
Nah
Those people are just exagerating and don´t want to improve/adapt their playstyle.
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I wonder what would happen if the devs actually came out and said: "nurse is fine, no changes planned"
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This just sounds like grasping at straws. Eruption has nothing to do with tunneling.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305734#Comment_3305734
When did I say I DC against her?
Also the stats shouldnt be used to draw conclusions. If so, we cant just cherry pick the things we want to see. Meaning we cant just ignore things like Sadako and Pinhead being at the top
You didn´t but fact is that people just dc.
Like my last match against Spirit. All 4 survivors spawned together and she had Lethal Pursuer. So she went directly into our direction. A Nancy gets downed within 20 seconds, attempts to suicide on hook but got rescued. Now she didn´t run away and proceeded to stay right under the hook. Killer downed her but went for someone else. I completed a gen and went to pick her up. No progress and dc when i tried to heal her. No camping, no tunneling, just people being salty.
I agree though, that we can´t draw definitive conclusions from kills vs escapes. What actually needs to be taken into account are hooks. Not hook stages, just hooks. Getting 8 hooks but 0 kills is determined a bad killer, when its actually more skillful than getting 3 hooks and 3 kills.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305646#Comment_3305646
It's what worries me a bit. I get why the devs don't want to add a ping system, but status icons don't really move the needle at all at a high level. "On a gen" isn't really useful information if you think about it. I don't know where that gen is or how far along it is. If a survivor is maintaining the proper amount of spacing and not greeding a 20% gen, they're going to show nothing on their status icon for a while before the chase icon actually shows up, but it doesn't mean they're doing nothing. It means they're playing well and not giving up stupid health states for no reason. Like...it takes weeks of scrims to get new players up to speed on descriptive comms in comp and now we're getting bad comms as baseline for survivors. Is it a step in the right direction? Sure. But I also worry that players are going to throw games just to have an active status icon at all times.
I can already hear the complaints of "why did you search a chest instead of hugging the gen?!"
There will be a adjustment phase. Until everyone gets used to it. Where not having the gen icon for 10 seconds isn´t a death sentence for the rest of the team (or at least i hope this). But the way our community is, it could also go the other way around. People disconnecting left n right, because their teammates have no gen icons.
Lets prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305646#Comment_3305646
Good that we can close the endgame chat XD.
But finally we can see in the match, that our allies are useless, not only in the endgame when we see 35k on me but 10k on the randoms XD.
I once was asked, in the endgame chat, if i think that the points mean anything. I was like, dude, i have more than twice your bloodpoints. I did something during the match... How bout you?!
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305595#Comment_3305595
Wanna know a killer survivors suicide against the most? Nurse. Wanna know who has one of the lowest kill rates? Nurse! I also highlt doubt many people are killing themselves immensely against Sadako.
You just cant use these stats man, theyre whack af
Ironic how all the people that dc against her, simply invalidate the stats.
Btw. lowest kill rate on average. Since her skill ceiling is high. Baby nurses get stomped pretty regularly.
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@hastarkis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305626#Comment_3305626
Pretty sure that "think they are better players than they actually are" is only one part of the problem, and sort of no-law-night with penalties turned off just shows how much hidden accumulated tension and frustration people have inside them (killers included). But you clearly have your point here so I won't try to convince you more, maybe you are rigth and salt is just salt.
Actually, I just hope to see camping and tunneling as not so viable strategy (with more viable other playstyles ofc) and see more diversity in bulds with true four-iri-emblem games (everyone repair, everyone hooked, everyone heal, lot of chases, and so on). I feel WOW-effect every time killer respects unhooked person and goes for unhookers (even if unhooker is aslo injured and have same amount hooks; like why am I so grateful, it's not like killer goes out of their way in that case), and it bothers me because it wasn't like that year ago.
For example, i remember a match where i wanted to hook everyone once before going for the second hook. So thats what i did, ignoring the already hooked survivors, then when i downed the survivor who i hooked first, he suddenly disconnected and left a "thx for tunneling" message on my profile. Some people are just salty for no reason.
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We´ll probably get the HUD update. Which will improve solo experience but will also cause a lot of problematic survivor vs survivor endgame chats, since people will actually see what their teammates do (or don´t do) during the match.
Best case scenario: solos play like SWF.
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@Nazzzak said:
The devs said the kill rate stats are more complicated than people think and you shouldnt draw too many conclusions from them. One thing to consider is that DCs don't count in the stats, and Nurse gets a lot of DCs. I'd wager more than other killers. So those are potential kills that are null and void. Also, she has a high learning curve. Those who try her, do badly, and then abandon her, will be bringing her kill rates down. And I'd wager alot of people try her since she has a reputation for being a strong killer.
This has actually a pretty easy solution. If people stop disconnecting against her and play normally, her kill rate will adjust and the devs can react accordingly.
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@hastarkis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305599#Comment_3305599
Again. The fact that every first-ish game killers at least try to tunnel/camp someone isn't survivors' skill issue. And death bc of it could be team's skill issue (fail to do gens/rescue), not the survivor who was hooked and camped. Killers using those tactics feels cheesy and exhausting, and they tend to use it much often now than they used to before. This exhaustion accumulates. Accumulated exhaustion leads to tilt, even if your winrate is around 50/50. And in case of more average 25-35% it feels worse.
I don't think that "just take BT to fight campers" (aka just let go before eruption, just don't make noise so killer tunnel someone else this time) is a good enough argument here. At least because BT was implemented as base-kit, hence it was acknowledged as a problem bigger than just skill issue. Those DCs (IMO) indicate the problem as meta-BT did.
If you don't think all those DCs is a symptom of overall unhealthyness in some game aspects - ok then, we just can't agree here, I guess, no problem :)
For the first time, survivors got hit hard with the nerf bat. Suddenly the game is unhealthy and people claim that survivors suicide/dc because of that. I´ve been seeing the suicides/disconnects as a problem for a long time. But whenever i mentioned it, it was played down that it doesn´t happen as much. Now everyone sees it. When the dc penalty was turned off, people cheered this on twitter and everyone disconnected for the most ridiculous reason. Streamers even had a dc counter, where they tracked how many matches in a row someone disconnected.
Its simply salt that causes this behavior. Some people think they are better players than they actually are.
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@hastarkis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305046#Comment_3305046
Becoming the object of tunnelling isn't a skill issue. It is killer's choice (and in most cases pretty profitable strategy).
Death by tunnelling also isn't a skill issue because survivors are supposed to be caught sooner or later. If killer wants to tunnel you out, they will tunnel you out, and they are able to do so in reasonable (for them) time unless sbmm screwed the killer up by matching them with better survivor than they should be matching with.
Being tunnelled out at 5 gens can be a skill issue, but if you/your teammates are constantly being tunnelled out at 5 gens it isn't a skill issue too, it's sbmm issue indeed.
Yes, you can prevent yourself from being first victim but then killer find another victim to tunnel and camp. And changing loadout can't make tunnelling/camping non-existent or more fun. It could make it longer. It's faster to just ######### and go next in hope next killer won't be that sweaty and stomping that you can't help but be downed 20 seconds in match. That's why sbmm was implemented, after all, and yet it doesn't help.
Like, yeah, I get your point, I personally don't get tunneled so much. But every first-ish game killers at least try to tunnel and(or) camp someone. Yes, sometimes it's not me. Yes, sometimes it's even 4E. Still, I feel being cheased and scummed. And if next game I'm the one who is first to be downed I can imagine how hard the rest of the game could be for me (with 90% probability). I quit the game before I'm THAT tilted, and I think those people should manage their salt better but I can feel them very well.
You can give Sisyphus any advice you want but sometimes it doesn't matter how fast or slow your rock roll down. The fact of it inevitably rolling down again and again is all that matter.
You explained my whole argument. Good job.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Having a streak of being 7 times the first to get found, downed and tunneled sounds more like a "i make a lot of noise at the start of the match" to me. Or that he instantly starts to run when the killer approaches. Or that just getting chased until downed is considered getting tunneled (i really have seen survivors make that argument). In other words, its probably a skill issue.
Its okay to have a bad day. Can happen to everyone. Just switch the loadout to something that gives more information about where the killer is and playing it save is the best advise i can give.
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60% kill rate means between 2 and 3 kills per match. Being closer to 2 than 3. Now remember how often survivors suicide on their first hook and that this affects the stats. If survivors wouldn´t do that anymore, then the kill rate would be lower. Possibly as low as before the rework which attempted to rise the kill rates.
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@hastarkis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304899#Comment_3304899
Salt doesn't appear out of nowhere. Being first downed if you aren't guaranteed to loose after that isn't a big deal, even if deep inside you are entitled snowflake. But if you were first downed and then tunneled out 7+ prev games with no other outcome except death with 8k bp max, you don't have ANY reason to think this game will be different.
Yep, it's not a good reason to dc and suicide first hook. But the fact the game can be so frustrating you become tilted THAT bad (not as occasional loose strick but regularly, on average, as a permanent game mood) might be considered as a problem. Same for killers.
Then its a skill issue. If you get found and tunneled out in 7+ matches in a row. I would consider changing the loadout (unless i´m testing a new build, but then i would already consider it a fail build) and how i behave for the first minute of the match.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304795#Comment_3304795
SWF has a 15% higher escape rate because Solo Q is absolute ass, and so are those statistics showing killrates
If solo queue is so bad, then why is the kill rate so low?
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304813#Comment_3304813
Obviously it’s a combination of all the aspects that make survivor unbearable. Please use your common sense.
My common sense tells me, that survivors biggest enemy right now, are other survivors.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304899#Comment_3304899
Sure in that example I agree but this is not exclusively what I am seeing, not by a long way
Some people even disconnect, when we are winning. No idea why. Since they also don´t stay in the match to ask them, or are on a different platform. I can´t ask them.
So the behavior is beyond me.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304872#Comment_3304872
Ignoring WHY they are leaving is not looking at the underlying cause.
There are people who DC for no logical reason but when you combine it with the ones who you can at least understand...
Dc on the first down seems like a salt issue.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304867#Comment_3304867
You are an anomaly then
People just remember bad matches more than good matches. I got used to make a screenshot after each match and look at them at the end of the day. To compare the bad matches and good ones. When someone disconnects on first down, i also make a screenshot mid game.
People willing to dc/suicide is a bigger issue for me.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I disagree, the game is currently quite killer sided other than SWF.
Anyone playing solo queue at present can tell you how rough it is and even with map RNG and maps in general often being survivor sided, it isn't enough to counter the current regression meta or the depressing amount of tunnelling and camping even at 5 gens
Playing solo all the time. I don´t encounter this problem.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
Ask yourself the question what is fun in this game and how the current plans of the dev currently look like.
personally i think the decision makers at bhvr don't know what makes their game fun. therefore one wrong decision is made after the other.
this shows up when playing, when the players ask themselves why am i still playing? the disconnects are the result of it.
the survey alone is so long that half of my friends gave up in the middle because they didn't feel like it anymore.
Not enjoying the game seems to be part of the normal play circle. Basically everyone takes a break from DbD from time to time. So if the people don´t enjoy playing the game, then they should just take a break instead of ruining the game experience for everyone else by disconnecting/suiciding.
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@[Deleted User] said:
you suggest punishing survivors for not wanting to play but you're not even questioning why dc's and selfkills are on the rise lol
the game is BORING af to play right now unless you play killer. Eruption, drop chase, kick a gen meta lol
So... if i read this right, then suvivors dc/suicide because they don´t get tunneled or camped? But instead have to wait occasionally 25 seconds?
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Eruption is fine. Its really rare that more than 1 survivor is affected by it, if they are working on different gens.
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Lag switching Survivors
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304384#Comment_3304384
Nurse with double range
Ironically nurse kill rate isn´t drastically higher than other killers. Even on high mmr.
Meanwhile, SWF has a 15% higher escape rate. Just imagine a killer with a 15% higher kill rate than the others. Everyone would instantly call for a nerf. And rightfully so. But for SWF it seems to be acceptable.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304290#Comment_3304290
How about no?
All that does is give Survivors a free endgame unhook and shaft the Killer. So apprently the Killer is now not allowed to camp an endgame hook when the gates are open (Or 99%'d, because Survivors always 99%)?
May as well just say 'Survivors win at 5 gens.'
Survivors wouldn´t be the only ones getting overworked/buffed endgame perks though.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304295#Comment_3304295
High MMR its "who ever wants to win more" sided
SWF
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Low mmr it's killer sided.
Mid mmr it roughly evens out.
High mmr it's survivor (SWF) sided.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304219#Comment_3304219
But you can't do this for the survivors' side, because there's no way for them to recover once they've lost, short of bringing dead survivors back in. Basically the only thing you can do is make the hatch 'more free' for the last survivor.
This is purely about the endgame. When all gens are completed. Not when 3 survivors are dead.
Survivors could get a endgame perk like old BT. That protects also the unhooking survivor but only during endgame. Which would make camping the hook when the gates are powered less viable.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303715#Comment_3303715
That works for the killer's side, but not for the survivors' side. You can't really make a comeback option for survivors that comes into play after the fifth generator, or after the other three survivors are dead. That's the problem I'm foreseeing.
But what if endgame perks were actually so strong, that they are a real gamechanger for both sides?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303653#Comment_3303653
End game build for killer is game changer, giving 2nd chance to killers (technically, since it means they're weaker in mid match) to get kill with Noed Rancor BW.
End game build for survivor isnt
- If Im able to reach to end game, I dont need those perks to win.
- If those perks help me to escape as Im last stand in end game, I could use something else to give a chance to my teammates to escape with me.
- If Im not the last stand or die mid match, I had no perk in play.
I think endgame perks should be much stronger than they are now. People usually only think about NOED, BW and Adrenaline, when someone mentions endgame builds.
But i think all endgame perks should be strong to give an alternative to the usual playstyle. After all, they're perks that are deactivated during the biggest part of the match and might not even come into play. So why not make them stronger? As a reward for reaching the endgame for survivors and as an incentive to play something else than stacking 4 slowdown perks and tunneling someone out early.
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Christmas is now officially the day, where people miss old Undying Ruin.
This put a smile on my face.
Merry Christmas!
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303660#Comment_3303660
Nice in theory, but 100% unattainable, unless you dramatically redefine the 'endgame'.
The time between after which all gens are finished and the last survivor escaped/is dead. Current endgame is stuck. Survivors 99% the gates and then don´t fear the killer, because he´s not a threat anymore + wait at the exit to say goodbye to the killer. Or the Killer camps the last hook as if his life depends on it. This needs to change for both sides.
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@C3Tooth said:
We receive:
- Self care pre nerf
- Botany pre nerf
- Pharmacy pre nerf
You receive:
- Coh further nerf
They literally nerf the whole healing perks set while buffing Haemorrhage.
I dont use Coh so I feel unjustified when other healing perks get nerfed.
Do you really want self care back? Like... really?
Now people at least bring med kits. But previously?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303522#Comment_3303522
Problem is that the unfair 1v1 has a knock-on effect on the 4v1, making it unwinnable for the 4.
These perks have always been known as band-aid perks.
That's why we need a change in the endgame system. A buff to endgame perks for both sides. That turns the endgame into a potential highlight of the match. With a possible comeback for both sides.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303524#Comment_3303524
Ah, I missed the detail that it closes the gate closest to that survivor.
Honestly that feels less like "hatch for the killer" and more like "#### the last survivor." If that were implemented, I could imagine Left Behind becoming meta.
Endgame perks deserve some love. People only seem to use NOED and Adrenaline but none of the other endgame perks. A change in the endgame would bring a new dynamic of potential builds.
Which is what could bring fresh air to this game.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303517#Comment_3303517
Then you just force a 3:1 split that hugely favors teams with comms, who definitely don't need yet another advantage.
No, because it doesn't matter if the last survivor is 1 meter or 30 meters away from the nearest exit. It would close that one the moment there is one 1 survivor left.
Remember that there is also the hatch left.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303486#Comment_3303486
Camping - Reassurance
Tunnelling - OTR
Slugging - Unbreakable
Prior to 6.1, the meta loadout contained UB, BT and DS, all perks specifically intended to weaken OP strats.
Well the meta certainly changed with inbuilt BT. It's going to change even more with the upcoming hud upgrade for survivors. Also remember that the game isn't meant to be balanced for a fair 1vs1. As all perks you mentioned are doing exactly this. They give a survivor more power towards a 1vs1.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303466#Comment_3303466
Interesting idea, but it lacks the chance element and can easily be countered by splitting 3/1 or 2/2 on the gates (and doing both gates is already the correct play much of the time, so in most games it wouldn't even come into play).
Can be solved by simply closing the closest gate of the last survivor. That way it doesn't matter if the survivors split up. They are even incentivized to leave before their teammates, even when they can't see them.
In addition, they could also add a bonus for leaving the match last. Kinda risk vs reward.
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@Pulsar said:
Replace them with bots and then remove the penalty.
Keeps everyone happy. Nobody has to play a game they aren't enjoying, Killers don't lose BP and Survivors don't instantly lose. Oh, but people who play in a toxic way looking for reactions get cucked.
Pretty much this. Bots are doing a decent job and are in any case better than not having anything else.
This is the improvement I've been waiting for for years and it looks like we are pretty close.
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@PrincessCalla said:
In my matches I usually always see two dc's in the first few mins or seconds. It's extremely common now. Then the killer goes extra sweaty like their life is on the line on me and the other person left. So much fun :/
@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303022#Comment_3303022
I think the killer just wants the game to end at that point. Not everyone likes farming. Some of us just end the game so we can all move along to another one.
Survivors writing in the endgame chat: "reported for farming, enjoy your ban!" Also doesn't help. So no matter how the killer reacts to early DC's, someone will complain.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303467#Comment_3303467
As if survivors don't already patch up all of the gameplay issues with perks.
Like, for example?
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@crogers271 said:
Isn't this what they already have? The map shrinks. They killer can get stomped pretty hard, but turn things around when the map shrinks or at the exit gates.
Also, NOED.
What has a perk to do with a inbuild game mechanic? Or are you proposing that survivors should require a perk to make the hatch spawn?
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Killer equivalent of the hatch would be, that when 4 survivors are about to escape, the exit closes after the 3rd survivor left. Survivor would still have the chance to leave through the other gate or the hatch.
Side effect: survivors won´t spend the biggest time of the EGC at the exit gate butt dancing but instead leave asap.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302769#Comment_3302769
I find those 2 killer perks way more annoying than anything survivors bring. At least I do see variety in survivor perk builds. That's usually not the case in my survivor games. Killers will bring the same perks every game.
I don´t find it annoying at all. You get a head start in chases, because the killer will always stop to kick the gen + the 25 seconds of being incapacitated is roughly the time the killer needs to pick up, carry the survivor to a hook and hook. Just use the time to approach the killer/hook instead of doing gens.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302748#Comment_3302748
Agreed. I'm starting to play less survivor because of those perks. I just don't want to deal with that combo every game. It's exhausting.
If you think its exhausting to run every match into the same perks, then switching sides won´t solve your problem.
Just saying.