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Traslogan
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230099#Comment_1230099
I'll just play killer because I'm actually competent at it, I'm surprised killers haven't gotten tired of "nerf everything" yet, DS was nerfed, it's way better than it used to be, I very rarely if ever get struck by DS but I know I'm competent enough to win without tunneling.
So people stacking DS in EGC to prevent anyone being picked up is countering tunneling?
Gee almost makes you wonder why every killer only plays if they have moris now.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230080#Comment_1230080
You must be though, anyone who's first point of balance is to talk about how "free" survivor points are when every man and woman under the sun knows killers earn more clearly isn't thinking straight, anyone who constantly complains about the meta perks but probably also likely complains about any survivor perk buffs isn't worth talking about, try killing people during the match I don't see how people see end game all the time with 4 survivors still up, you have to be pretty terrible at this game if your'e constantly end gaming it with 4 survivors and none of them are dead on hook but ready to pounce with the indestructible and undefeatable perks.
My complaint is killer meta gets nerfed constantly whilst survivors don't. When was the last time they fixed DS? As I've already explained, it's easy to stack and abuse it, but will there ever be a patch even attempting to mitigate DS abuse? no, that would be too anti-survivor. Hex ruin, Nurse in general, iron grasp, the list goes on for the amount of times they obliterate killer meta.
And yeah, I complain when survivors keep getting new ways to earn even more BP whilst killers get things like no BP gain when attacking at the gates and trying to shoo off gate campers. On a good game I'll earn 25k or so BP as killer, top 2 survivors will earn ~20k, other 2 will earn 10k+. all 4 of them will go on to afford new items and addons (but they never lose items without dying now anyway so hey they even get to save BP now), at a significantly faster rate than I can. Best items for killers all revolve around minimizing our score. Sure a mori gives as much pip as a direct sacrifice, but you lose all your extra pip and BP from 1-2 more chases, 3-4 (or more) injuries inflicted, and that's how it works for killers; almost all our ultra-rares are built around minimizing our progression. Meanwhile survivors get to keep ultra-rare items if they survive at all, and things like good flashlights can stun us 6, 8, maybe even 10 times with reasonable add-ons. We are forced to spend more, whilst survivors save more and overtime just earn more and more.
But if you think everything is fine, you should be fine going back and waiting longer and longer queue times as less and less people play killer.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230061#Comment_1230061
I'm sorry that you struggle at such an easy game.
"Survivors don't have it that easy"
*explains how survivors game the system and how their core meta perks get abused to defeat their purpose and make it easier*
"lol well you're just bad then"
Outstanding counter.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230000#Comment_1230000
I don't know why you keep bringing up points, it's proven, time and time again across a million matches that a killer will get more points than survivors, even when a team of survivors escapes they can end up with less points than a killer, I really don't know why you're using the system we use to spend BP as a reason that the game is survivor sided.
DS & Borrowed time together isn't an issue, this 100% means that you chased after the one being unhooked instead of the unhooker that you were right next to, you just need more time in the game, or if you have a tonne of time you've hit your peak and likely won't get any better so keep playing, be deranked to the rank you're supposed to be at and when the matchmaking is fixed you can continue on with your 1/2Ks or whatever it is you average.
So you're telling me it's impossible for SWF to stack DS? I see this every other game now. It's end game collapse, you can't be tunneling, it's EGC, by definition no one is getting tunneled as they made it to the end. Know what SWF do? You hook player 1, so player 2 unhooks Player 1 who has DS. You down player 2 for this, and hook them. Player 1 takes a slash from borrowed time if he can, unsafe unhooks player 2 and now both have DS active. Unless they are on the wrong end of a rectangular map, they can crawl to the gates in time, if you pick either one up, they deduct -3 from your pip for DS being fired, and get away guaranteed. If player 1 lacks DS, they use player 3 and player 1 takes borrowed time smack to ensure bodyblock, and still 2 people have DS active.
And killers earn a tiny bit more than survivors, it's like 25k versus 22k on a good game, but that's 1 killer versus 4 survivors, and again survivors keep getting more and more ways to earn free points. "aww diddums you DS'd him and died anyway, here's 1000 points just for being the obsession". Survivors get more points every patch, and now they don't even lose items. Unless I waste a perk slot on franklin's demise, as long as you escape in any capacity, you don't even use up your items anymore, you get to keep fully used items. I assume you've seen how long a semi-decent flashlight actually lasts against a killer, just how many blatant stuns it lets you get.
Survivors get to stack extremely efficient OP meta perks, which never get nerfed in the slightest, whilst killers are getting nerfed at every possible opportunity. Hexes are useless, most killers have no way to be mobile enough to cover the map now, and whilst survivors keep getting new ways to earn ever-more points, we get shafted by things like "well if you were near the gate, your attacks just don't count lol"
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1229965#Comment_1229965
LUL @ the game completely favors survivors. 🤣 Maybe there was a time. But that time has been over for a while.
This patch will bring some of the biggest changes, in favor of killers, that DBD has ever made. Way to be ungrateful.
Survivors get free points just for dying as obsession now, you get points just for vaulting in a chase iirc. You're absolutely coddled.
Killers aren't even allowed to score if they hit you at the gates, it just doesn't count. You can stack DS on us, borrowed time can be activated by the same person on 3 unhooks in the span of 10 seconds, SWF is the majority of all games now and the final killer with high mobility got nerfed and hex ruin's nerf crippled all low-mobility killers who have no means to keep up with the game's pace anymore.
Every core meta of killers has been nerfed. Survivor meta of stacking DS and borrowed time? Nope, it's never going to get touched, because it'll impact their bottom line.
It is 100% pro-survivor, but SWF seem to think that as long as one of them can die in the game then it's still pro-killer, even though killers are tougher to rank up and we have to get at least 3 kills and 9-10 hooks to have a chance of ranking up (Every time you heal we lose all the score we got from injuring you, because that's how anti-killer it is).
You do what, 2 gens and do it with co-op and you're near maxing pips. Do a gate and that's another third of a pip alone. No reason to leave early during EGC because every second alive is just more free score for you until the killer chases you off. But killers? Play shape and if you don't max out your stalking on all 4 survivors, even with the no-one-escaped bonus you won't max out deviousness pip.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1229356#Comment_1229356
Nah fam. You are on some serious #########. Or just completely delusional.
Devs don't need to make a BIG difference. What you're suggesting would absolutely break the game. The majority of teams in this game are random. They are not SWF. So the gen speed change, combined with the map changes, loop changes, palette changes, etc. will make a significant difference in bridging the gap between SWF/Killer and only further cuck random teams - which, again, is most teams.
Seriously.
#########.
😂
Take the win bro.
Bro the majority of all games are SWF now. Pretty sure you can hunt down the time where it was finally admitted. SWF is the status-quo, not randoms. The game does not even attempt to reflect this but that is the case now.
The whole time SWF was the minority nothing was done, and now it's the majority even less will be done because it's a cash-cow.
People using comms so you can't mind-game because someone uses object of obsession, people calling for help so 2 people come bodyblock or follow with a flashlight to ensure you can never pick someone up, people stacking DS intentionally with unsafe unhooking to prevent anyone dying during EGC, this is the norm and it's why the wait times just keep going up and less people want to play killer. Every single time Killers developed a core meta, it has been nerfed and obliterated from the game. We had one killer left who had the mobility to cover gens on non-coldwind-farm maps, the nurse, and she got nerfed to oblivion for being the last effective killer too.
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The game completely favors survivors. A 5% debuff to gen stacking is as far as they'll go to ever hurt survivors ever again now.
But don't worry, incase anyone gets mad, they'll double the bloodpoints from every great skill check, whilst also slowing down moris so animations don't play until we lock it in, buying survivors even more time.
Also don't fear, they will never touch infinite object of obsession, they'll never stop Decisive Strike being able to stack and be used by multiple survivors, they'll never dare do anything to actually rebalance the game. This patch is the weakest thing they could have done to help killers and even then they had to give survivors a massive buff to bloodpoint gain to do that.
But Nurse being the only killer left with enough mobility to challenge SWF? nerfed. Most killer are low-mobility and need hex ruin to pace the game? nerfed. Sabotage that takes 10s and breaks hooks for 30-60s? nah too difficult, 2.5s and 20s break and if you have a toolbox killer can't properly interrupt you so you guarantee the sabotage.
There's a reason no one is playing killer anymore without moris. There is no fun left for killers.
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The game is heavily biased towards giving killers higher-rank survivors in my experience. I made a post in suggestions showcasing this problem, every single game across an entire night was with most players being 5-7 ranks ahead of me no matter how many were online. AS long as 1 person is near my rank it thinks its valid that the other 3 can be anybody.
The game even seems to remember when you were in a lobby with specific people, and if they are still searching for a game it will keep putting you with them. I've seen the game put me in a lobby with the same 4-man SWF up to 8 times in a row, where I just don't want to play because they were d/c'ing whoever got hit early to deny me points.
Doing anything to balance matchmaking would be considered anti-survivor and anti-SWF though so don't worry it's never getting fixed. Nothing can dare hurt the survivor cash-cow.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1224220#Comment_1224220
My games tonight: (Different sides as I had 3 Rituals to do)
Survivor: Pretty standard, escaped, gg's in chat after.
Survivor: Also standard, also escaped, gg's in chat after.
Survivor: Got killed, gg's in chat after.
Survivor: Downed as last one alive, killer took me to hatch. gg's in chat after.
Survivor: Killer just goofing off, didn't hit us more than a couple times, let us all go, laughing in chat after.
Killer: First survivor I see drops a pallet and teabags. Runs to next pallet and teabags. Mostly continues this way. Exit opens and group circles around the gate teabagging. "lol killer get git lol nub" in chat after.
Killer: Played against a small streamer and his group. Good game, no one was rude, gg's in chat after.
Killer: First guy I see runs to a pallet and teabags. Runs to next pallet and teabags. Runs to next one and teabags. I leave him alone but he continually walks out near me to bait me, I presume. Also has DStrike, so I assume he's the designated SWF team bait, but oh well. "######### killer tunneling me ######### noob ######### leave our friend alone" in chat after. They're all ~10 ranks above me, too.
Seriously, there's just something about survivors that causes them to act out. Maybe it's because they're always "protected" by having friends with them so everyone feels empowered to just let civility go because they have backup.
I dunno. I liked playing killer, but it's basically always a trollfest when I play killer and fairly friendly when I play survivor. So I'm driven more toward one than the other.
My personal opinion is they know how well it favors them, especially in groups. The game used to be difficult, it was expected that 2 people died minimum, 3 wasn't unexpected. Now they've got a counter for everything, they have perks to reward unsafe unhooking, can stack decisive strike to prevent killer getting any hooks during EGC and whatnot, and even just ranking up as survivor is generally easier, killers have to be extremely efficient and let you go so they can keep stacking score.
What I see as killer is survivors in SWF who drop out (Where I've confirmed by just checking profiles before the game) because they thought they might finally derank and instead they want to deny me points as much as possible. They know that their 5 min ban and 2 pip derank is meaningless, the ban is over before their friends play again, and if they just try hard with their SWF group for another 20 mins they got their rank back.
Personally I got the game to play killer. I do play survivor sparingly but I prefer killer. Frankly though, I find there's almost no fun left. We have to min-max to even keep our rank where it is, and the game has become pitifully easy especially for the SWF groups.
The game favors survivors, survivors know it, and the game has never changed to reflect the fact the average game is SWF now and thus most perks are obsolete or negated. It's only going to get worse, less and less people playing killers, and thus longer wait times.
Also having just recently played survivor again, holy hell I just realized survivors get points just for vaulting in a chase and even get 1000 points just for dying as obsession and even more if they live as obsession. Survivors are so coddled whilst killers are fighting tooth and nail to even maintain their rank (We don't even get points if we hit survivors at the gates), this kind of crap is why killers get toxic.
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Yet another:
https://imgur.com/V1HJ8DFGee it's almost as if it's biased towards giving really high ranks to killers no matter what.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1224195#Comment_1224195
Both sides try to justify toxicity but the thing im trying to discuss is a point i see mainly done by killers. Both sides are just as bad eachother but both sides use diffrent arguments and the one im discussing is used by killers
Everyone knows survivors can't be toxic, holy art thou survivors.
Real talk, just had a game where 3 survivors in an SWF went into basement. First got punished for going for basement chest, and 2 others went suicide to try and unhook. one got free and got to use borrowed time on 2 people at once, and then when they all still died anyway (They were all rank 2-4 against me at rank 7), they called it bad game and said I was tunneling for just following people who were running blatantly to the basement.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1224147#Comment_1224147
Honestly, it seems like most players (And the developers, perhaps) see the survivor side as the "real" game. The equivalent of the "canon ending" in a game that has multiple possible endings.
100%. Killers are expected to cough up for DLCs so they even have some level of core meta, but every time killers have found anything efficient it gets nerfed. Nurse is the last killer with meaningful map mobility? nerfed. Killers with slow mobility rely on hex ruin to stop gen-rush? nerfed. Killers use hexes at all? Spawn survivors by the hexes or put them on their own in the open on a hill. Killers can use iron grasp to actually take someone to a 2nd hook? nerfed.
Meanwhile they refuse to dare touch Decisive Strike, an anti-tunneling perk that all 4 survivors can have active at the same time (Which breaks the whole point). Player A can be hooked, Player B unhooks unsafely, if you hook player B player A will unhook unsafely so that they both have DS active and you must let them crawl to the exit gates over a full minute or you lose rank for even picking them up.
I will say though, I don't think the devs are biased because they think survivors are meant to win. Look how aggressively over-monetized this game is. £15 game, £70 core DLC, probably £500+ of cosmetics, and a rift pass. It's pro-survivor because 4 survivors paying for DLC is worth more money than 1 killer. THe problem now is no one wants to play killer, the balance has tipped so far it's just not fun to participate as a killer, and I think that makes a lot of killers turn toxic when they bought the game to play killer.
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@PBsamichShoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1223634#Comment_1223634
Dude, A week ago I would have argued with you, but after finally being able to play killer since console got dedicated servers I totally get it!
I agree 100%
What's astonishing for me is that when I play survivor I swear it feels like there's never enough pallets to last me longer than a 20-40 second chase.
When I play killer I'm like "Where the hell are all these pallets coming from? This map NEVER gives me this many pallets???" lol
I never had an issue with ruin as a survivor, it was kind of fun looking around for that glowing totem. The one I absolutely HATED as survivor was iron maiden. Not because I hide a lot, just because the few times I did, the killer always had this perk.
The problem with hexes is RNG. It gladly spawns them in the open fields or on hills with no cover so everyone can see it from 60 meters away. I stopped using it when I got 4 games in a row where it spawned a survivor at my hex and I Was losing my perk inside 15s of the game each time.
Nothing will be done to help killers though. If it inconveniences SWF, it inconveniences their money and so we're just taken for schmucks. Just like how survivors get 1000 points just for dying as obsession, just free participation trophies. Everything is anti-killer now.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1223695#Comment_1223695
Well.. I'm sorry to hear that. @angematias basically beat me to anything I wanted to say: someone having a bad day never justifies them taking it out on other people - by very definition of the word, as it is undeserved and therefore unjust. There is a difference between a feeling or impulse being understandable or explainable, and the resulting action being justified. Whether they consider it fair or warranted is irrelevant (at least if you believe in objective morality, as I do - if you happen not to, we may just need to agree to disagree.)
It will never change though. SWF are toxic because they know if you do well they can quit, it won't hurt their team's ranks, and as SWF they are more likely to win the next game together anyway and get back their tiny rank loss (and the ban timer runs out before the game ends so they'll have basically had zero impact from bailing on a game to reduce killer's scoring). With SWF being toxic, killers are toxic back. DBD has a reputation for its toxic community that is the envy of CSGO players.
I strongly believe the main reason killers end up being toxic, be it through specific mechanics, or just trolling, or outright taking meme builds that are there to make one or two players have a really bad day, is down to the bias towards survivors in the game. The game has changed from 4 people trying to survive to 1 killer trying to get 2 or more kills before 5 gens are done. The average game now, it's 1 gen done per hook and that's if you're finding people very efficiently. DS can be stacked on you during EGC just to cripple your pip progress and prevent any further hooking for the rest of the game. We even derank if you heal, on a directly 1:1 ratio with how many points we get for each injury we inflict.
I hear that people get long queue times now, and it's not down to the ranks anymore. After this month's reset I went up to rank 8 and I get rank 2-4 players in every game, so the matchmaking criteria is very broad now. The queue times are because less and less people want to play Killer, and those that are will either min-max the game and are genuinely god-tier, or they're here to be toxic because the game isn't even resembling a mild balance anymore.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1223679#Comment_1223679
So just to be clear... if you understand what is meant by toxicity in this context, then you are saying that the fact that you're not having fun justifies behaving unkindly towards other people?
People are either toxic because they came here to be toxic, or they are toxic because something has changed in their experience of the game that has prompted them to consider it fair and warranted. I believe the fact the game so severely favors survivors is a large part of that, that is what I'm saying.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1223663#Comment_1223663
Either you're trying to say that the fact you're not having fun justifies rude and ill-mannered behaviour towards the other players, or you've misunderstood what toxicity means in this context. In case of the latter, it's best if we clarify that toxicity, as is being discussed in this thread, was defined by the OP as "nodding your head while facecamping or playing insidous bubba with a mori" (the latter of which was later amended to "nodding there head or letting everyone bleed out if they somehow get 4 people slugged"). In other words, we're not talking about strategic behaviours like camping and tunnelling, we're talking about behaviours that do nothing for the killer strategically and are only employed to hurt or anger the survivor players.
Yes and I still think what I said is relevant. Killers are at a distinct disadvantage, everything we are meant to be able to do has been countered heavily, everyone can run DS and borrowed time and mettle of man and we're left getting deranked just because DS fired on us. Killers get crippled by SWF with comms and how survivors have an extremely strong meta that punishes and negates everything, and thus I believe my points contribute to why killers give up and end up doing things like insidious-bubba and whatnot. They have no incentive to play seriously and get their rank up, they get 1 achievement once for maxing their rank and there's nothing else ever again except longer waiting times. Survivors get to meme on killers, so killers just end up giving up and meme'ing back.
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So the basis for your counterpoint is that toxicity requires toxicity for someone who will be toxic to do so?
My point is the game leans so heavily into favoring survivors, especially with more than half of all games now being SWF, that killers have lost the fun in the game. If we don't get like 10 hooks and max out our chasing score and farm you for deviousness points, all while somehow keeping gens alive for the gen pip, we can't rank up at all. It's very easy to double-rank-up as killer if you can get the first rank-up point, but very tough to get the first point in general. For some reason you are running with this assumption that toxicity only occurs because other people are being toxic, which then begs the question why were those people being toxic, and your argument loops around.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying "I'm being toxic for these reasons", rather "I can see why these reasons make other killers toxic". I'm mostly done with this game, it's just not fun to play killers at all anymore. I don't waste 2 mins camping a hook, this isn't DBD 1.0 from 4 years back.
The fun of the game leans massively into the survivors now, SWF might not blatantly win that many more games (9% more or something iirc), but it can very quickly cripple the fun for the killer. that is why killers justify toxicity, I bring up DS a lot because it is a very prime example of the issues. DS is ranked as the most popular survivor perk for a reason; everyone takes it and it stacks for some reason despite being built to counter tunneling supposedly.
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-SWF are the majority of all games now
-Comms means hooked survivors can tell each other who we are going for from 60m+ away and can do gauranteed tug-of-war for gens with the killer where every second you keep them off one gen is a second wasted and you're forced to yield gens.
-Pallets are every 10m in some maps and there's enough pallets for each survivor to break maybe 8 each per map, where all killers except nurse and ranged killers are locked into extremely long pallet chases. SWF also tell each other when you decide not to break pallets so they know areas of the map are still usable. Nothing we do can actually stop you reaching the next pallet except specifically playing nurse and ranged killers, the rest are all useless and forced into long chases.
-Body-blocking with DS and Mettle of man / borrowed time active so you can't punish unhooking and if you go for the unhooked survivor they body block and fire DS anyway since everyone takes that perk now
-Anti-tunneling perks like DS are allowed to stack because it's convenient, so survivors can stack DS on you so you're banned from getting hooks even during EGC Where you would think tunneling is definitively impossible
-New sabotage rework means that you sabotage hooks in 2.5s and even if we hit you it does nothing to stop your timer and you are guaranteed to get the sabotage anyway.
-Killers get no points if they do anything to you at the gates. If you leave but get hit at the same time, we get no points or anything for it. Compare this to survivors who now get coddled and are awarded 1000 points just for dying as obsession, or points just for vaulting.
-One of the only killers with enough mobility to cover most of the maps, Nurse, got nerfed and now every killer with mobility has an extreme giveaway (e.g. the nightmare visibly makes gens bleed before he teleports to them, and hag has a maximum range and has to pop up in your face before even deciding to teleport)
-Killers without mobility got shafted hard by the nerf to Hex Ruin and we have almost nothing now to truly delay gen-rushing, if we engage in chasing at all the gen-rush happens irrespectively and low-mobility killers like shape just can't physically reach gens to use things like pop goes the weasel in time. The one or two perks that kind of still help are locked behind DLC or waiting weeks / months for the shrine to offer it.
The game exceptionally favors survivors and SWF has become the norm but the game has not been changed in the slightest to reflect it. That's why killers justify toxicity. There's no incentive to rank up at all, it's SWF All over the place now and killers have a tougher time ranking up compared to survivors anyway, so detterence like facecamping causing pip loss is pointless because the rank system itself is pointless.
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lmao survivors can stack an anti-tunnelling decisive-strike perk which also works perfectly in EGC when you cannot be tunneled because it breaks the definition, they can body block after being unhooked so you can't punish either the unhooked or the one unhooking, then use perks to guarantee a 3rd hit so you can't punish anyone, if you pick them up you'll lose rank as killer because DS firing actually deranks us, but you think that after even hex ruin being nerfed that NOED is still a bit too strong?
They should just replace killers with bots, there's no gameplay left for killers, and now you're going for the one or two things killers have left to have a single chance with. We had one killer with enough mobility to cover maps properly and they've nerfed that too. Games last 3-4 minutes and even if we take perks like pop goes the weasel survivors just repair gens in front of us knowing we never reach it in time before they finish.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
Ahh one of those ultra rare "Sabo is too OP"-Threads. So then tell me, why sabo isnt used at all after the patch? Oh yes, cause its still far too easy counterable.
I don't read patch notes generally, I came here because I suddenly saw sabo being used again and it was ridiculously fast and they would just stay 5m ahead of me so that they'd get my hook. I tried hitting a guy who was sabotaging, he had a medkit, he proceeded to complete it after being smacked anyway as if it didn't even interrupt the timer. I checked the perk listings and a 60s cooldown for sabotaging means that if someone just gets whichever hook you try to go for, by the time you do any chase other than maybe a really effective nurse blink insta-down, they can do it again. With 2 people, as I've already seen, you just can't outpace it.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
De-rank. Make a smurf/alt account. Use an Oak offering to make more hooks. Play some Survivor and play for their Archives. Leave people on the ground of they wait near hooks. Run Hangman's Trick.
Prove that you've done all you can or ask for advice BEFORE coming here to just complain, please. The Sabotage mechanic was completely reworked recently and hooks aren't gone for very long now, at the cost of it's done very quickly.
I don't think playing survivor is a counter to killer issues. Not an effective one, anyway.
I just came back from being rank 12 from 2 rank reset months where I wasn't really playing.
Already explained the issues I've run into when slugging as a counter.
More hooks isn't the problem, they can sabotage those just as fast, and I can't reach them in time, nor is an Oak Offering consistently available.
Hangman's Trick means nothing now, unless I'm 1m away from a survivor when they sabotage, they do it too fast, it's a waste of a perk slot.
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@Alphaphalt said:
Don't bother guys, you can't help those who don't want to help themselves.
I hover around rank 4 and play Shape / Nurse / Clown, but there's nothing that can break an SWF team that has brought 2 saboteurs that are focused entirely on preventing hooking and healing anyone who gets slugged whilst you fend off a saboteur. They've brought killers gameplay into a complete deadlock.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
why are there hooks every 2 feet ? Always within arms reach of hooking a survivor? I think that’s a good reason Survivors should be able to do it that fast 🤷♂️
If you've already walked to a hook, you no longer have the struggle timer necessary to reach another, even with iron grasp (which has been virtually obsolete since the original sabotage nerf years back). Now you have to slug people, whilst gens get done in a game where gen-rush is completely the norm, you won't rank up if you're not scoring a lot of hooks as killer, you won't even sustain your rank if you don't get more than like 5-6 on top of basically letting survivors be chased for 10 mins since shorter chases don't give you more score like descriptions claim. That slugged person will just max out their bar so someone can take a hit and heal them and now you've wasted 2 minutes on a chase, a ton of time slugging and trying to get someone to a hook (Assuming they don't just crawl away so the saboteur can once again infinitely sabotage en-masse), and there's no longer any gameplay for killers.
There is simply nothing for killers to do except watch survivors get free bloodpoints for sabotaging the same hooks over and over preventing you doing a single thing. It's just like how they put an unsafe unhook system in to punish bad unhooking, but then they add perks to encourage doing the exact same thing. They changed how long we can hold survivors so we can't just walk halfway over the map, and then they made it so people can instantly sabotage things even if we hit them midway through their 2s-3s timer, so they've deadlocked the entire system, except of course survivors are farming sabotage spam whilst killer gets literally nothing done. You can't move to another player, they already have committed to taking Saboteur and following you around with multiple survivors to ensure there's already people to ruin your hooks instantly.
And no you can't just go for the saboteur, people are stacking it like how they stack Decisive Strike. You down the saboteur, the 2nd one takes their place. It's another great example of survivor perks stacking in such a way that the killer is powerless.
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@Alphaphalt said:
I can't help you. Find a different game.
Got Literally no other choice. Devs have nerfed killers too far now. It's not even just difficult, it's simply no longer possible.
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@Alphaphalt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1207338#Comment_1207338
Are you daft. Having a timer that gives them a time limit is in your favour compared to no timer on the survivors.
If you can't outplay simple sabo, and think the timer is in the survivors favour, then I think you're not a very experienced killer and should practice before complaining.
Also have you even been reading the patch notes lmao.
You can't outplay sabos that get healed. Majority of all games are SWF (even devs have said so now iirc, and I'm pretty confident that most non-SWF games are low-ranks only and it's muddying the statistics).
You down a survivor, his friend is nearby and just runs ahead of you to ensure he gets the sabotage. If you drop your downed survivor to go for the saboteur, he will sabotage and run away by the time you have dropped the body. If you hit him whilst holding the body, he can instantly resume and finish his near-instant sabotage anyway before you get a chance to hit again (So fast infact that without save the best for last, you basically won't hit him before he already started running away).
And the timer is never in your favour. Decisive Strike is the highest rated survivor perk for a reason: almost everyone uses it. Player 1 gets hooked during EGC, so player 2 unhooks, but both have DS, so if you hook player 2, player 1 will unhook unsafely so that now you have to let them slug for 60s or get stunned whilst they run all the way to the exit (or as good as), and during that massive 60s timer they will easily reach the gate unless EGC was almost over when they went down.
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@Alphaphalt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1207330#Comment_1207330
"Sweaty rank 1's" lol.
"Especially during EGC" the timer is in your favour, what.
"They have someone waiting to heal" force the sabo out, then stand on the body until it regens. The wiggle bar regresses and the penalty for dropping is lower.
This isn't an issue, you just didn't think or know of the counterplay. Now you do, so this isn't an issue.
Do you play Killer at all? the timer is not in our favor. It lasts so long that if people unhook each other to ensure everyone has active DS, there's almost nowhere on any map they can't crawl to the exit gate from during the 60s timer.
Camping the sabo is nice and all, except when the guy you downed just crawls away and now you go get him and the sabo returns, or you lose and the whole process begins again. We're literally just unable to get hooks now unless we're over the basement.
Just about every single god damn patch makes things faster for survivors, and there's no killers left that can do things with the speed necessary to accommodate these changes. Sabotage is simply so fast now they could literally bring back v1.0 infinite-sabotage hooks and there'd be no difference.
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@Alphaphalt said:
Sabo hooks stay down for like, 10 seconds. Press R, the penalty is barely anything now.
I'm watching sweaty rank 1s camp the hooks so we can't wait it out, especially during EGC. They have someone waiting to heal if you slug and give chase, and if you don't give chase they'll just run for the hook again.
For all intents and purposes it's no longer possible to play killer. They let survivors stack DS so you are banned from hooking during EGC since everyone will fire DS on you, you can't hook because they made sabotage so fast and so easy that people can just facecamp a hook to prevent you ever hooking someone, and there's just nothing but deterrence for killers. The devs really don't want people playing killer, they want your money so you can pick killers but it's just £6+ so you can watch people insta-remove hooks and camp it to prevent hooking.
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@RaSavage42 said:
Sabotage is a Jake Park perk... allows Sabo without toolboxes
No ######### sherlock, but they brought sabotage times down so low that even with just the jake park perk you can do it in 2 seconds. We're literally banned from hooking now unless you go down right beside the basement, because even if we hit someone sabotaging they just get to continue for the rest of the 2s and break our only viable hook. It's literally as bad as DBD 1.0 all over again when all hooks could be infinitely sabotaged.
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@luka2211 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191995#Comment_1191995
Bruh,there isn't a single way you keep getting swfs all over and over again. You just aren't playing properly and are making really bad decisions in the game
YOu're clearly deluded then. Playing badly doesn't make everyone be friends with each other on steam in the lobby.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
Lies. Ruin isn’t even necessary. I’ve seen killers do work with other perk combinations. High mobility is OP too 😡 angers me people still use this crutch perk as an excuse for whining about killers being underpowered
So you're admitting specifically just high mobility killers are good and the rest don't have what it takes. Cause that's the majority of killers that lack mobility. The game is basically just "play nurse, maybe freddy, or gtfo, if you don't buy those DLCs you can't really play killer past rank 15"
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They need to come up with a way to render DS null and void if you're interacting with people who have DS. Freeing a DS survivor could cancel your own DS, and DS could be null and void during End-Game-Collaps (or at least substantially shorter time period).
The problem isn't the power of DS on its own, but when people stack it intentionally to abuse it so the killer has no option but to sit on his backside and get deranked for either being DS'd in fair and normal gameplay, or derank for doing nothing in fair and normal gameplay.
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*deleted*
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Well we can't say anything on the steam discussions because devs put up a suggestion board there that is 100% ignored and never sees an official response on anything, it's just there to draw flak. I'm here because there's nowhere else to have the discussion that would potentially have even a slim chance of mattering.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1192044#Comment_1192044
So make it an anti-tunnelling perk. Don't make it an "anti-tunnelling so long as the killer only sort of tunnels" perk. That's the opposite of a solution.
You seem to be keeping your suggestions vague. How do you plan to make it an anti-tunneling perk whilst removing its flagrant abuse?
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@Wylesong said:
Just a counter to the 99% of all games are SWF, I would like to see the research? I play on Switch and I have not one played with or against a SWF team. This just sounds like a person crying GIVE ME HEX BACK instead of learning other ways to play as a killer. I almost never used Hex anyway because it was a risky thing to use.
I have always used Pop goes the Weasel and other things like that because Hex Ruin can be cleansed so fast it was kind of pointless anyway.
I can't speak for Switch, given the awkwardness of playing with friends on switch I would wager you have a better time on average. on PC though we can check steam profiles. Just play killer on PC, get to a middle-tier rank like maybe 12-13, and just check and see that either every single person is private, or you find everyone in each other's friends list, often set to private and offline to try and hide it. I've counted my own games personally and can genuinely attest to the fact I can't get a full team of randoms anymore than 1 in every 20 games.
Pop goes the weasel is a good perk, but the problem is survivors will pre-emptively hide because their SWF buddy on the hook will say where you go, and sometimes you will even catch them on the tail-end of BQQ-&-Chili trying to run away from otherwise just casually working on gens, because you were going for it. After the game you realize no one ever takes any perk relating to info now because they have those perks for free via discord.
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@Fibijean said:
So DS no longer counters tunnelling as long as you tunnel them fast enough?
I understand the desire for DS to be adjusted, but that philosophy seems... flawed, to say the least.
We're literally banned from killing anyone during end-game-collapse due to everyone taking DS. You hook player 1 with DS, player 2 with DS unhooks in front of you, you hook player 2 knowing player 1 has DS so player 1 unhooks knowing you can't hook either one and if you slug they will reach the exit within 60 seconds guaranteed.
When SWF teams are meme'ing on you they'll do the same thing but earlier in the game to keep their designated chase-survivors in the play for as long as possible.
There is already a system in-place where survivors get pip loss for unsafe unhooking, there's a designated period of like 10 seconds for it. Instead one of the strongest perks and most common perks in the game completely renders this system obsolete. It's not just anti-tunneling, it literally makes killers lose rank if someone fires DS on our shoulder, and we end up in situations where we're banned from doing anything except just quitting or letting everyone crawl out scot-free.
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1192001#Comment_1192001
Yeah that's not the issue, even remotely.
New Hex: Ruin isn't necessarily a bad perk, it just doesn't help with what old Hex: Ruin used to help with, which was early game generator slowdown. New Hex: Ruin does nothing if you don't actively push survivors off a generator. If they sit on a generator from 0 to 100% Hex: Ruin does nothing.
Ironically new Hex: Ruin works best on killers with high map mobility, i.e. killers who didn't need old Hex: Ruin in the first place. Killers like Hillbilly and Freddy can make great use of new Hex: Ruin because they are always all over the map chasing survivors off generators. Killers like Myers, who require setup time and were greatly aided by old Hex: Ruin are now forced to settle on Corrupt Intervention which is a poor substitute as it does nothing to slow down generator progress, and just makes the map smaller for two minutes in a nutshell, only not really cause survivors can just wait it out if they so choose.
Ok, I'm assuming you're writing this on the heels of a particularly infuriating game, so I'm sympathetic. That said, 99% of your games are not SWF and claiming as much is hyperbole that pulls away from your main points. Exaggeration is not needed in this case.
Also I would argue more people play Freddy and Hillbilly than Nurse at high levels since her rework where she just became stun simulator 5000. I would recommend picking up Freddy, as he is probably the strongest killer with the lowest learning curve.
As far as dealing with your issue, I would recommend running the following build.
Nurse's Calling
Corrupt Intervention
Monitor and Abuse
Sloppy Butcher
Myers is a fun killer but he desperately needs setup time, this build gives him some of that by blocking off the far generators for two minutes. This ensure survivors have to come closer to him to get started on generators, leading to more stalk opportunities and more chases and hopefully hits and downs. Monitor and Abuse is of course a staple on Myers and still his best perk, make Stealthy boi great again, but Nurse's really makes him effective even when in EW2 as he can punish people trying to heal. To make this even more frustrating we pair it with sloppy butcher to make healing take forever giving survivors two not fun choices, don't heal and risk getting downed repeatedly even when regularly hit, or waste time healing.
No this is off the back of nights of infuriating games. I get non-SWF 1 in 20 games (Check steam profiles, and refuse to play with 4 private profiles), like literally the only real workaround you're offering is "buy more DLC, see if that helps". They won't even keep old DLC like the shape up to date, he's designed to reduce chase times with a limited-use special ability and thus minimize his point gain, but otherwise he's trash and incapable. We've got no means to even somewhat deal with how fast the game is now, and we can't even sustain our ranks because killer ranking was designed for good fleshed out games and anything short of that curbs your rank hard.
They're charging us for base game, £70+ for DLC, a premium currency store, and a season pass that renews. If I have to buy more DLC to stand a chance, it's pay to win.
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They're never going to balance the game against SWF. Play nurse and everyone d/c's because survivor ranks are too easy to acquire, or play anything else and get meme'd on for 3 minutes before gen-rush is over. THat's all that's left for killers.
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@animalmak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1192014#Comment_1192014
How can you tell they're SWF? Like I'm just genuinely curious. I never know when people are SWF, but Idk if that's because I'm on console or what. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone against people or played with people and been like "okay, they're defo working together."
But I don't think some nerfs to DS are necessarily bad for SWF. It's meant to be anti-tunneling, so it should deactivate when the person's not being tunneled (fully healed, performing an unhook, doing an objective). If the survivor is actually being tunneled, they wouldn't stop to do any of those things because they would be getting chased. There are other perks to use if people are so keen on performing unsafe unhooks.
SWF have two weaknesses: Altruism and that one twit who leaves his profile on public whilst the other 3 try to hide it. You just check friends lists, you see they're all friends and the ones set to private are just offline.
You can tell once you're in-game just by how they play. People immediately moving during barbecue and chilli's vision period because someone on hook clearly said you're going for them, people pre-emptively running away from a monitor-and-abuse shape with a terror radius of 8m because a random other survivor saw you in a different direction entirely. 2 people showing up to bodyblock and insta-flashlight-stun as soon as you're about to end chases, and then standing beside the hook waiting for you to hook so they can instantly unhook knowing it no longer matters because all of them have DS and you're about to lose your pip simply because they're SWF and took the most OP perk in the game.
The game is completely pro-SWF at this point and 99% of all my games are SWF now. Devs never touch anything that harms SWF. They won't touch Decisive Strike because that will upset the thousands of SWF groups that all run it together to punish the killer for just playing normally.
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@Booper_Of_Snoot said:
Pop, Thana, New ruin, Surge, sloppy, dying light, all of these are slowdown perks that I personally have made work very well. You can stop gen rush. Sometimes its not your fault, you lost despite playing at your best. but that is mostly 1% of the time. the 99% its a case of you got tunnel vision and took a chase to long, or didn't commit to any chase, lost gens a bit to speedy, and instead of trying to recover just give up and make complain posts like this. I don't get hard genrushed often. i don't 4k every game. But getting 2-3 is a win for me. Gens aren't that hard to pressure normally and is drastically blown out of proportion here.
I try constantly, but it literally is just play Nurse or you can't. I main shape and I try playing billy and wraith too, and you simply don't have the capacity to end chases at the speed needed to stop the speed of the game the devs have built over the years. You have to find someone really fast, end chases exceptionally fast, or it's all over so fast it's unreal.
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@EvilJoshy said:
If BHVR could program killer bots they most certainly would be in the game.
They should do because there's no gameplay left for killers.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1192004#Comment_1192004
Can I get a confirmation that kicking adds to the current generator defense stat?
Kicking does, but I believe hex ruin with is passive decay is just that, it's passive and isn't scoring for you. If a survivor just sits on the gen and never lets it decay, gen-rush happens inside 2 full minutes of the game either way now.
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@animalmak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1192005#Comment_1192005
I can only speak from my personal experience, but when I play with my friends, only two of us run it, and that's also dependent on what characters we're using. And maybe we just play different from everyone else, but not once have any of us said "I'll get the unhook, my DS is still up." The only time we ever coordinate saves in that way is in the EGC, but that's entirely dependent on who's fully healed and who has Borrowed Time.
Maybe another amendment would be that if a person unhooks someone, their DS also deactivates. Shows they're willingly going back and aren't necessarily being tunneled. That seems to be the most logical nerf, rather than to completely ######### over solos with ######### teammates.
That makes you an exception, trust me. I main killer and all I see is 99% SWF teams all running DS so you're banned from touching anyone during EGC. There's no penalty for moving whilst DS is on, there's no penalty for DS survivors freeing DS survivors, what there is is a penalty for killers losing anyone on their shoulder. We take a loss to our rank every time someone uses DS and entire teams run it because it's such awfully strong meta and it'll never get touched because that would hurt the precious SWF
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@animalmak said:
If it's such an unsafe unhook that you're re-downing and picking up the unhooked survivor within the time, that means you're like... right there, so why not just grab the unhooking survivor or hit the unhooking survivor and then chase them? You get points for hooking all the survivors, too. If you're immediately going after the unhooked person (who literally cannot do anything about who unhooks them and when unless they're on comms, but even then it's never a given), then you're the reason DS exists in the first place.
I can agree it needs a nerf. Echoing an earlier post (and others I've seen), if the killer downs someone else first, then DS should deactivate, no matter how much time is left. Or if the survivor fully heals before the DS timer is up, it should deactivate. Things like this show the person isn't being tunneled and therefore doesn't need the anti-tunneling perk at that time.
The problem isn't DS on a lone survivor, it's that 99% of the game is now SWF and they all run it, because knowing you all have DS is what makes it broken. Survivors unhook survivors, knowing they both have DS. If you hook player 2, player 1 returns to unhook knowing it no longer matters who you down, you get DS'd. EGC kills are literally impossible now because everyone can crawl to the escape gates inside 60 seconds, and we've got no means to punish anything anymore.
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@Saitamfed said:
New Hex: Ruin is good because thanks to it the killers have to kick no mo'
So less gen-defense on our pips, just like how we lose our pips when 4-man SWF teams all take decisive strike to stop EGC kills and punish you for punishing.
Survivors just spread out and each sit on a gen with the new hex ruin whilst the SWF team's designated chaser runs you for 120 seconds before 80% of the game is done right there and then.
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191995#Comment_1191995
Heres a build for you to try that works on pretty much every killer.
Pop
Thrilling
Knock out
Sloppy
I need Bamboozle at the very least on the shape (Whenever I reinstall this mess, that's my main, no incentive to buy other DLC in the state it's in), as well as monitor & abuse. I've tried using pop goes the weasel in the other slots but again, SWF have overridden the balance of the entire game. I can't get anything done because they know where I am at all times
There's just nothing to stop gen-rushing anymore. It's no longer rushing, they've just made the game immeasurably shorter than it used to be, and killers have never been rebalanced to catch up.
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@Zaitsev said:
As a killer main, I know it can be rough right now, but old Ruin created a lot of bad habits. We're better off without it. Imo, Ruin should have been nerfed after gen speeds get nerfed, but....thats a whole other can of worms.
You can stall gens almost as well with Pop Goes the Weasel and Thrilling Tremors.
I can't do anything anymore because I Don't specifically play Nurse. Gens get done instantly, if I take any hex they get placed in the open with no cover and sometimes survivors even spawn on them, everyone takes decisive strike so you can't punish unsafe unhook and you can't get a single kill during EGC.
I've tried pop goes the weasel but every game is SWF, they see you go and immediately call for support to unhook asap. There's nothing risky for survivors anymore, whilst killers can't get the long game they need to even sustain their rank.
I've got no incentive to play killer, it's just being a pinata for SWF teams to get free bloodpoints.
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Killers get games instantly but it's always SWF. I'm checking for it and most profiles aren't private, the ones that are will be in the friends lists of those that aren't. I'm barely getting a random group every 20 games, and there's simply nothing to do anymore as killer. There's no fun in watching people know where you are because people on hook are on discord saying what direction you go, people ensuring they have bodyblocks and extra help just before a chase should end.
The devs refuse to acknowledge SWF has become the norm and thus the game isn't balanced for it even slightly. Survivors might as well have 8 perk slots because any perk related to info on the killer is there for free.
There's no gameplay left as killer, they should just buck up and remove it.