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Traslogan
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102275#Comment_4102275
Why is the player count at an all-time high then?
They're actively in a sharp decline and the 24-hour peak is less than half of the all-time peak.
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imo Singularity is far too strong and is a prime example to feed the argument of pay-to-win DLC purchases. He doesn't even get restricted on placing his surveillance cameras directly on top of the EMP chests to punish anyone trying to engage with the survivor side of his power.
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I'm sorry but you're the devs who refuse to even attempt to deal with issues that result from SWF having extra info (So fun when a 4-man discord team states where you're going after you hook one of them and they don't have to take any perks to get that info…), but you're going to actually start removing information from the killer?
Killers require info about hooks to know when their perks are going to work, how the game is going, who is dead on hook, etc. A killer playing balanced is a nearly guaranteed loss outside of newbie ranks. Just about any top-tier killer main would tell you that if you spread out your hooks to all survivors, you're going to lose the game. The survivor meta is so hyper-optimized that so long as they remain a 4-man it's a clear win. You're basically trying to incentivize the killer losing a game so that the survivors have a more fun game by only being hooked one at a time, one new person each time.
Just put this into perspective: It is now considered tunnelling to kill a survivor if they die immediately after I have HOOKED EVERYBODY ELSE… That's not tunnelling, that's "Screw you for playing killer."
Giving a bonus repair speed if someone dies too early? You're going to literally punish killers for nothing short of just bad luck. When it's duplicate characters, we're just going to end up punishing ourselves from not keeping perfect track of them all, oops JakeClone03 just got hooked as the 1st, 3rd and 5th hook (and I can't tell it's him because I don't know when he gets unhooked now so I assume it's a different jake in a chase), now everyone else is repairing faster. This isn't anti-tunnelling, this is outright punishing killer mains for playing your game.
Outright horrid changes that only encourage killers to quit. -
@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/354092/why-is-there-still-no-resolution-option
If you have an NVidia graphics card, right click on your desktop background and click on "Nvidia Control Panel". It might take a moment to open. Once it is open, on the right there is an option to change your resolution, near the top. There you can set a resolution, configure your DPI scaling, and create your own resolutions. If your DPI still doesn't scale properly, please let me know. It is likely that it will not work, but hopefully it will be resolved in the future with optimization changes,
Shouldn't have to do such an awkward workaround for such a basic thing as the game's resolution.
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@Hex_Llama said:
I thought it was a good survey. I'm also 100% sure they care about the answers to the merch questions, since the point of asking is to find out if we'll buy the merch and I don't think they're just pretending to want to know that.
Every time I've filled out one of these surveys, there's been a box at the end where you can leave comments about things they didn't ask about, so it's not like they're excluding feedback that doesn't fit their exact questions.
This is the dev-team that asks you to rate your matches from 1 to 5 with no context as to why you rate it 1 or 5 or anything inbetween, thus rendering the rating pointless. It's nothing more than pretend userbase interaction, the majority of questions were leading you to what they wanted the answers to be. You either agreed with them or were neutral / didn't answer.
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Decisive Strike needs to be turned off during End Game Collapse and if you have DS timer active, unhooking someone with DS should remove yours.
Done, it's literally fixed with just that.
Way too anti-SWF of a patch though so it won't change.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906669#Comment_1906669
Or maybe they also gathered feedback about those topics via the forum and other media and didn’t need to hear the exact same things again..
the Survey may be used to get community feedback on stuff they feel like they don’t get enough feedback about in other ways
So asking how fun killer perks are but how useful survivor perks are? They want to know what the pains of the game are so we don't get to say what the pain is, just if we agree with their 5? (And if not, we haven't got an 'other' area or 'none of the above' or anything).
It was a bad survey that just served for them to be able to claim they asked for feedback, but it was all pivoted towards either agreeing with them or just not answering / being neutral.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906625#Comment_1906625
Uhm
why wouldn’t they make merchandise?
just because you are not interested doesn’t mean others aren’t interested.
it’s not like the devs themselves would now be distracted because they are in any way involved in creating merchandise...
You missed the point. It's not about if they do merchandise, it's about putting out surveys to pretend like we're offering feedback and it's really just them ticking the box to say they had player participation when it's clearly already a done deal, same way people in these comments are saying they didn't ask at all about some recent changes which means they have no interest in worrying about it.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Since you are one of those persons who think that SWF is cheating, I dont have much hope, but:
The Survey is a quantitative survey. This means you give answers and the person asked has to choose from those. This is an easy way to collect data. You cant expect a quantitative Survey to have many options to fill out on your own.
This would be a qualitative survey which would have to be way shorter, because people have to analyze them manually.
I only gave it as an example anyway to show that if you have any gripes about the game other than the 5 explicit things they've decided are problems, you have no say in their surveys. Perhaps one of your biggest gripes is performance ever since the new graphic changes, well doesn't matter because they don't think it's an issue.
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@onemind said:
Hate to say it but yea the didn't even ask what do you think of the undying change that's how you know they are set on not changing it
Yeah I bet all the merchandise questions are just them saying "we're doing merchandise no matter what, we just want to seem like we asked first"
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@Marigoria said:
And how will you know it is a SWF? A lot of matches that the killer loses he says me and the randoms were SWF even though we weren't. Is SWF just a term now for teams who don't get stomped on?
Until the cross-platform crap you could tell just by checking steam friends. SWF that wants to be a meme would actually set themselves as offline so it was more annoying to search for them but still possible. Now with cross-platform stuff it's tougher but you can still tell. Teams don't get that kind of magical info without SWF. randoms don't know that a pallet they never saw was put down but never broken 10 minutes ago.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1856915#Comment_1856915
My survivor matches take seconds and my killer lobbies are much slower - time taken to find a match is due to rank/region/time of day. Nothing to do with player levels. During the day for me, super fast survivor lobbies but long killer ones, and that reverses during the night.
I can get extremely long survivor queues and extremely fast killer queues no matter the time (including middle of the night). Still, SWF is the issue, and outside of "lol I like having the difficulty totally ramped up" no one can give a reason for them
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@Phasmamain said:
Can’t improve if you don’t play
you have the same mindset as people who dc against slinger and spirit because they have no counterplay
I am someone who has tried for years to find a good reason to play against SWF. I average rank 2-3 as killer main and I can even hold that as Shape, doesn't mean it's good or engaging or, though subjective, even fun.
There's no counter to most of what SWF brings to the table as options for advantageous cheating. It's why I quit the game for like 10 months at a time, because each time SWF has only gotten worse and devs have let it fester more. There's a reason killers wait 5s to matchmake and survivors wait 5 minutes.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Saying that SWF is cheating just results in a big "git gud" for you. Dont blame your losses on SWF.
I can typically take a couple of SWF players with me, doesn't mean it was engaging gameplay though. they nullify most game-mechanics and devs make literally zero effort to counter that fact.
Devs rely on players like you to post "git gud" to quell the issues of SWF, but all it does is make survivor wait times longer as less and less players play killer.
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@lowiq said:
People also define SWF as any team they lose against.
I can kill 2 or more on the average SWF team as a red-rank killer. but it's in no shape or form fun nor engaging gameplay. It's four people min-maxing and using comms to cheat in ways I have no system to counter with. I cannot do anything against a survivor who is telling his friends where I walk after I hook him because he can still see me 50 meters away, I can't damage gens anymore because they tell each other I did it to get someone to come stop regression asap whilst I chase. Most game mechanics are completely nullified by the inclusion of SWF.
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@DawnMad said:
Unless I am playing with a very weak killer I like the challenge. I don't really feel bad for losing against good swf teams since I'm at the disadvantage but playing against them is good practice in my eyes.
And for anyone who wants a normal sane game? I don't want to watch SWF cheat so that everything I do in a match is nullified.
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@rats00 said:
The issue, as is brought up everytime, is that any mechanic to try and punish killers for face camping is abused by survivors to get easy saves and punish killers for defending a hook. They tried such things in ptb, and survivors just abused it.
The issue is no matter how much you are angry I am by the hook, it doesn't change the fact that I see the claudette in the bush and don't care about the Meg clicking their flashlight and tea bagging by the killer shed.
Its the same when survivors 3 gen themselves and think I'll follow them when they obviously let me hit them so they can sprint burst to the side of the map without gens. I'm not that stupid, I'm not throwing the game so you can loop me around the shack. It's not camping, it's just not throwing the game.
Survivors being nearby should nullify punishment. Punishment still needs to properly exist though
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Myers is extremely out-dated, and I say that as someone who can main him into red killer ranks. His insta-down options are very poor compared to all other options; Oni can keep getting more blood and breaks pallets and charges forward, billy charges forward and breaks pallets, bubba can break pallets with a speed boost. Every other insta-down killer has A: A way to do it infinitely with delay, B: Some way of getting an advantage in chases when using their power properly.
Myers has no advantage. His lunge bonus is nice but it doesn't really do much in an era of dead-hard galore where his lunge is obvious in audio. He gets a tiny vault bonus but Myers with T3 EW, Maxed out Fire-Up, and tier 3 bamboozle, STILL cannot outpace survivors in vaulting, therefore it is a pointless buff (especially when some layouts like Springwood school basement can be a joke of a loop), and he has no way of dealing with pallets.
T3 needs to be a genuine concern for survivors, not just "lol unless he's an anti-pallet build I just have to drop every pallet and I can run him for the entire 60 seconds". He should have some buff to dealing with pallets. His vault buff is pointless, it could be removed and you wouldn't notice.
Finally he needs to have a way of regenerating stalking. imo this should be something like a very slow cooldown on stalking buildup (1s of stalking for every 10s of cooldown maybe, something like that). It should be slow so it's tougher late-game, but he's a so-so killer who can just run out of his entire power by just having bad pallets and not running an extremely particular anti-pallet build.
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hatchets still feel like they were implemented badly as a joke. the twins lunging attack to jump survivor backs is just as clunky.
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@ObscurityDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1460024#Comment_1460024
Well not all SWF are gods of the game
And no you cant find a way to "balance" this
Or if you can i would be happy to hear because you gotta find a way to "nerf" people playing together as there could be groups of 2 players, 3 players or 4 players and if its a 3-1 not make the game worse for the solo player. Beside it can also be that a lot of the game werent even swf but 4 solo players with 1 or 2 good loopers...over time people learn to play the game and how to be efficient
Oh and no nerfing the time you gotta hold m1 to do a gen as a swf aint a good fix, cause its not funny and the good louper will just have to take care of you a bit longer.
I would just remove or nerf OoO to start but it wont stop them to be able to communicate.
Yet i somehow got the feeling that "they're SWF" is a good excuse to say "i played badly" or "he was stronger then me" (i mean even i find it hard to admit lol) and not everyone is using OoO everygame all the time
Here's a few:
Disallow Object of Obsession on SWF groups. It's abused to hell and back by SWF so that some people do gens whilst Object and maybe 1 other run rings around you with a never-ending stream of info.
Make survivors blind on the hook. Let them see friendly auras and nothing more. This should not affect their own perks e.g. ones that show killer aura if close to the hook, but they should not be allowed to see the killer when on the hook or else they can tell their SWF comms where he goes and what he does until out of line of sight.
Stop killers deranking in an SWF game. Don't even need to tell the killer till the end. If they get absolutely meme'd by SWF with comms abusing every possible avenue of advantage, they can at least not get punished in the mandatory ranking system for it.
The problem is no one is prepared to even try and work out what would work. Devs are too busy saying "don't worry we'll never hurt you SWF guys, don't forget to buy the new cosmetics and the rift pass and our next DLC"
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1460024#Comment_1460024
Comms are openly allowed. 100% not cheating.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1410947/#Comment_1410947
If you want to play with other people, you can join DBD's OFFICIAL Discord server. There are special sections to create or join a swf. I reiterate, it's on the official server.
If it's official that only adds to the argument that it should be considered when balancing the game. Nothing is balanced even mildly to accommodate the changes SWF has the ability to bring to the match. Devs don't want to hurt their cash flow (Despite having milked every possible avenue anyway), so they won't dare to touch SWF and it's pathetic.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1459706#Comment_1459706
Huh. I usually don't see sabotaging survivors. That's partly because a lot of survivors are downed before I start hooking one and also because I will drop a survivor very readily if I see another survivor has just revealed him/herself in a place that has no pallets or windows. I like STBFL because survivors often run at hooks in my face and STBFL reduces the stress of having to deal with all the power survivors have around hooks.
I don't think he's out-dated, per se. I think the game's core mechanics need some tlc to deal with how the players have changed.
I agree some of the game is outdated compared to what the average survivor can do now. The meta for survivors barely changes each year because it's never wiped out like killer meta is (For better or worse, I would argue it is true that killer metas get obliterated simply on principle). This year, last year, the year prior, we all still kept using Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike. DS even fires during EGC or when you unhook someone because the perk isn't even doing what it's supposed to and can be abused. Survivors have had years to build up raw efficiency with few things changing how they work, whilst killers keep having to adapt to an increasingly nerfed perk set.
I do think the shape is relatively out-dated either way though. His tier 3 EW is the weakest of all insta-downs when you compare him to Bubba and Billy who can insta-break pallets with their insta-downs, huntress had insta-down addons, clown just has to smack you with an addon bottle to instadown (And he hasn't even got a slowdown from that anymore), Oni is basically the shape but better and gets to break pallets with his instadown and can charge at you during that time, Ghostface is just the shape with great control, and most importantly all of them have a way of never running out of their instadown. Myers gets 60 seconds, addons can buff it a bit but make it much tougher to get, and he can only stalk so much before his power is gone for good. His lunge at T3 is so-so, better than average but nothing special, his vault speed increase is still slower than survivors and thus a useless bonus, and he has no way to help him with being stunned or breaking pallets.
I don't want a full Myers rework personally, reworks are usually a nerf in disguise for killers, but I do think he needs tweaked. A little more of a competitive edge at T3, and give him some way to get more stalking (e.g. it very very slowly cools down on survivors)
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@ChirpingCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1460636#Comment_1460636
Odd. If you believe the killers on these forums, SWF makes up for 95% of the player base and they can't get a match without 'toxic' SWF being in it.
So yes, by that logic I think @Vixley is right to suggest the game would be kaput without the SWF players who are ostensibly prolonging the life of the game out of a desire to play a game with friends more so than because they're die-hard DBD fans.
If devs would release the stats on how many games are SWF where the average rank is 1-8, you'd realize any killer worth their salt is against perpetual SWF. They keep the stats generic and broad to muddy the numbers, so that all the solos who play at awful ranks keep SWF at only just under 50% of all games.
Also this isn't about getting rid of SWF, merely alleviating its problems. Should SWF be allowed to take object of obsession? It's a walking exploit if you have comms. Why not blind survivors who are hooked, just let them see friendly auras but the rest of the game is a void so they can't tell their SWF where the killer is going (and it wouldn't block aura perks that help solo survivors).
The problem is the devs refuse to even try. No matter what is the optimal balance, devs are too busy promising to never touch SWF in this completely over-monetized game because even a dollar lost is tragic.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1459596#Comment_1459596
The "counter" to Myers is just play well and hide if necessary. That's something every survivor should have to know how to do. I play a fair amount of Myers, and I often don't see any pallets in use when I'm in Tier III. I tend to use his perks (except Dying Light), BBQ or Whispers, and sometimes Unrelenting, and I do fairly well with him, but that's not to downplay any of your concerns.
I find his save the best for last is a strong perk for most killers, especially because of how insane sabotage is now, a 5-stack save the best can mean you get 2 downs when someone tries to sabo your hook in your face.
That said, I do think he's out-dated overall. I can sit in red-ranks with him, but he is much more of a hassle. I finally got around to playing the nightmare and bubba and it only reminded me of how painfully behind Myers is on his playability.
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Myers has been out of date for years, but they don't make as much money on him now so they won't sell you the fix.
He needs to actually have a genuine advantage at tier 3, he's the worst of all insta-down killers. Finite power, finite uses of finite power, and his faster vault is literally still slower than survivors, you need to take Bamboozle and Fire Up to be faster than them.
He needs a way to deal with pallets, e.g. +40% pallet break speed during EW3, maybe even some faster recovery, and his stalking should slowly cooldown instead of just capping out. (E.g. Survivors stalking goes down by 15% per minute or something, not enough to stalk one person forever but enough that his power isn't just finite).
Frankly myers could do with being faster. He lacks any gen-control at all and the hex ruin nerf obliterated his last backup.
They literally even turned off bloodlust for T1 myers so if a survivor is playing a female, every obstacle can stop your stalking no matter what and they can just run rings around you.
Literally atm the counter to myers is just drop every pallet pre-emptively and if he isn't an anti-pallet build he's just dead in the water.
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@Ikalx said:
Wait, so if Survivors hang around at the exit gates waiting for hits and you give them some before they leave, Killers don't get BP for it?
Survivors definitely do.
Yeah that sounds like an imbalance that needs to be corrected.
yeah it doesn't even matter what we do either. An injury, a tier-3 shape instadown, a noed instadown, as long as you're near the gate we'll get literally nothing for it except maybe 15 points in chasing if it registers that you moved before you left. Definitely needs fixed.
Back in the day survivors got more or less points based on how they survived, e.g. being injured or downed resulted in less points (much less so for being downed). idk if that's been removed or what but that system should be a fair counter to the gate issue and killers should be allowed points in general.
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@oogabooga said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1279984#Comment_1279984
He said he doesn't care about kills he cares about having fun kills don't equal fun he just wants to have a good time and not get ######### destroyed because he's rank 14 and the survivors are rank 1
In this case I maintain red-ranks as a shape main with some amount of playing Clown/Nurse/Huntress/Wraith, but you got the idea right. Just because you can kill every other SWF survivor doesn't mean it was fun to watch them cheat.
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@KettleWettle said:
Okay but how would they balance SWF ? Also i'll just say this right now, if they remove SWF, this game will die. Try proving me wrong because it won't work, but if they remove SWF this game will die and people like you that complain about it are gonna regret it because it's gonna lose a lot of a it's player base.
That's an extremely convenient argument, because when we say SWF is too big, people use the opposite argument that they're not even half of the playerbase yet. Make your mind up, either SWF is such a colossal presence we need to take them seriously and thus consider them for balancing, or they aren't significant enough to kill the game and thus balancing them would not cripple the playerbase.
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@Poochkips said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1304723#Comment_1304723
AS a huntress player who is used to a charge/windup time and predicting movement patterns, this seems like a wider hatchet without a throw arc and the ability to hit more than one person. I would hope it feels satisfying. And I can only really see it being useless to an extent in open areas. He seems like a loop ender. Which isn't much new for anyone with a projectile. As we can ignore that factor most times if we aim good enough. I'm well aware the SWF side as a good portion are pretty problematic at high ranks.
I'm curious how strong overall he will be. Any killer is really scary in the right hands.
Personally my preliminary belief is that he's up there at B tier at minimum. His slow speed isn't great but as you say he'll end-loops aggressively or punish you for using them. He counters many of the worst survivor tactics like SWF waiting to get gauranteed flashlight stuns when you pickup, and of course he gets free mori on any tormented survivor that is dead on hook (even I think that's a little strong but eh, he still has to torment you I think).
Again I think the real problem is he shows how weak some other killers are. I main shape so I see his problems more-so but he's so painfully out-dated now when you compare him to most killers, he gets less deviousness gain than anyone else (He requires a literal perfect game of max-stalking on all 4 survivors and no one escapes or he can't max out deviousness), and he's generally got nothing to aid properly in chases (His vault speed buff is still sub-survivor speed, you need Bamboozle and Fire-Up as well as tier-3 on shape to actually gain something from window vaults.
Basically, Pyramid Head is good, but he contrasts against the other killers to show how out-dated they are.
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@OniWantsUrLocation said:
I have to play with him a lot more until I can come to a conclusion, but at the moment he seems okay. He's not that easy to play. His range attack isn't as good as people think. And I'm not sure if it's even worth it to put survivors in that torture cages instead on hooks. Time will tell I guess.
It saves him from sabotage-spam (Which the devs self-induced as a problem by making sabotage so pathetically easy lately), and from flashlight stunning and bodyblocking. The cage isn't always going to be an amazing location but survivors cannot follow you to find the hook faster and cannot do anything about you sending them to the cage.
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@Poochkips said:
Can seemingly hit you through walls? (Someone confirm this please) can mori you as fast as a Freddy without a actual mori (doesn't look like its hard to even get to go off to be honest) slow? But dunno, if he really can negate loops then it balances out to an extent. If people think he's gonna be a "swf stimper" you've literally just made it worse for anyone not in swf I suppose. I dunno. I'll try him, but if he feels OP to a point its unfun due to low effort I'll just go back to huntress and nurse. Waiting for my boy clown to get his rework. Also, he looks like he literally can ignore half the mechanics in the game which in theory sounds as dumb as old nurse in terms of how they work. I can already see a potential nerf. Mind you I've only seen a couple clips on him and thats without addons.
SWF is everywhere at high rank, I think most solo's are down at the early ranks these days. Frankly also if SWF can ignore mechanics, killers should get to as well.
He can hit you through walls but he's got a charge time and then has to guess especially since his camera moves about a bit as he preps the attack.
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Survivors get a perk to counter falling once in a while already, and maps like Haddonfield would be effectively obsolete if you nerfed killers capacity to chase off of high ledges. It's already a tough enough map when you find an SWF team offering Haddonfield and all rolling balanced landing.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1289716#Comment_1289716
And these things affect other people too, so why do you think there might be fewer killers?
"Swf are rigging the game against killers"
"think of the solo survivors!"
SWF don't cripple the gameplay for survivors, it doesn't affect others. The higher your rank, the more SWF there is, and killers just get pummeled by comms-SWF constantly. There is no reason to play killer anymore unless you just play when you can buy a mori, otherwise who cares anymore, devs will never dare to touch SWF and it's so bad now that despite the game going from 15k to 25k to 45k peak players at night, there are still less killers and longer wait times.
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No one wants to play killer anymore, the higher your rank the more consistently you just end up playing with SWF, so survivors have to wait until your matchmaking criteria widens so much that you end up with rank 2s and rank 14s in the same match.
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@MargretAtWalmart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280264#Comment_1280264
i mean, i understand, but playing clown is still fun
Just here to derail? What has clown got to do with DS abuse. Just needed to throw in a random statement?
Thread is about SWF, not clown.
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280434#Comment_1280434
There are a lot of things that are unfun for both sides, but that doesn't mean they need changes. Because what is and isn't fun is subjective to everyone.
Some people like to play against SWF Squads for the challenge, myself included.
What is and isn't fun is something that is subjective to everyone, which is why no changes should ever be made on the basis of what is "Fun".
You're asking for a Survivor wide nerf to make Survivors blind on the hook. I have to hard disagree on that just because some people playing as SWF might take advantage of that.
And I'm sure the devs would agree with me on this.
How does that nerf a solo survivor. Seriously, in all honesty, how does blindness on the hook hurt a solo survivor?
on top of that, if we aren't going for fun, are you honestly going to claim all the cheating advantages of comms-SWF is balanced?
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280382#Comment_1280382
I do agree there is a Killer shortage in the game, but I really doubt everyone is leaving because of SWF Squads.
Also, let me tell you this:
If you think rework Nurse is terrible, then you clearly have only been playing her because she was the strongest Killer in the game rather than playing her because she was your Killer of choice. I used to main Nurse, and I don't think her rework is terrible. It's a welcome change for sure, and my playstyle for her already fits the rework mold. So I haven't had much issues playing her when I play her from time to time.
And if you were dependent on OG Hex: Ruin, I'm sorry to say this, but you were not a good Killer. Hex: Ruin was something you should never be dependent on, because it made the game more about protecting your Hex rather than about protecting Generators.
I knew someone who didn't have to depend on Ruin to play Killer back then, and they mained Freddy, in Rank 1, so obviously it was possible for someone to still play competitively while playing the worst killer in the game, even back then. I even have proof of his build he sent me a while back.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/781/381210_20181230192511_1 - Copy.png
The only players who relied on Ruin were the ones who couldn't be bothered to pressure survivors themselves, and Ruin trivializes that by creating a hard skill check for most Survivors to pass everytime that regresses the generator if you can't pass it, while also make them waste time looking for the totem.
It obviously had to go, even as someone who plays Killer more than Survivor I admit it was far too powerful of a perk, even as a Hex perk. Because it's free pressure without the Killer doing anything about it, and it's not something the Survivors can just obviously turn off like reworked Freddy's Dream World. If the totem is hidden in the perfect location, Survivors will never be able to find it, ever. And that's just free pressure. Which is why the devs decided to rework it so the Killer has to work to get it to work.
I am actually a fan of the reworked Hex: Ruin, especially combined with Surveillance. It helps me spend less time kicking generators and it can give me map wide pressure with Surveillance.
The reason I am telling you this is mainly because of something we both know all too well:
The Matchmaking is broken, and you're getting matched with Survivors far more skilled than you are. Organized Teams can be annoying to play against, especially if you as a Killer shouldn't be matched with the kind of players you play against. The players who are way above your skill level. But they definitely aren't unbeatable.
I'm sorry you really have a negative experience with SWF squads, but most people just want to play the game with their friends. That's it. They don't have a nefarious reason to want to bully you (even though some do), and some people, like myself, like to play as optimally as we can when we play this game.
There are a lot of things that are unfun for both sides, but that doesn't mean they need changes. Because what is and isn't fun is subjective to everyone.
Hex Ruin was something many killers were dependent on for their low-mobility killers. I main shape, never did Nurse as my main, so that assumption is just wrong.
You're focusing on the killer changes instead of the SWF which is the topic of this thread though.
Make your mind up though, you're trying to argue all the changes were good, but then SWF can't be the possible problem too. Maybe it's just pure coincidence that every day we have nothing but threads about the issues of SWF. I listed point after point after point on how they can cheese the game in ways we can do nothing about, and how it ruins it for us.
No one is advocating for the removal of SWF, only proper handling of it. And as for skilled survivors vs me, I sit at red rank 2-4 most of the time as a shape main, it's not about skill, it's about the many many reasons I've listed that you've shrugged as "sorry for you bro but none of it matters". At no point am I advocating for making it easier for killers to wipe the floor with survivors and get their 4K double-pip every game. I'm arguing for the sake of the actual gameplay, not just the score.
Once again, you derail the issue by focusing on what we've already said explicitly isn't the issue; nobody said they are unbeatable! We said it wasn't fun to watch them have such blatant advantages and ruin the gameplay for us. You can kill 2 survivors and still have your game ruined by the whole experience being wrought by SWF scumbag tactics.
Why couldn't we have some basic SWF counters? Why not make it so survivors are blind on the hook and can't see anything visually? suddenly SWF can't report our killer position to their friends. It doesn't impact solo survivors, they can still use perks that show killer aura to their friends, but SWF can't cheat. Stuff like that seems fair and brings back a semblance of fairness.
I confirm for SWF by either asking at the end or checking steam profiles at the start. And constantly, all the damn time, it is just try-hard SWF communicating to create the awful situations that the original post lists and then some.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280386#Comment_1280386
I don't know what game you're playing but the eboni moris and facecampers aren't as rampant as you make it seem.
When I play survivor at rank 4-5, they're everywhere.
SWF is still a serious problem, regardless.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280370#Comment_1280370
And I'm sick of people complaining about survivor groups on here. Can't have it all, can we? I rather have shorter lobby times against groups than waiting forever. Same thing when I play survivor, I rather not be punished with longer wait times just because I decide I want to play with friends rather than by myself.
Then keep deflecting the SWF problems, and keep getting more and more killers who've given up and will only play with red mori or as campers who don't care about rank. By refusing to even look at the issue you've already doomed the killer playerbase to decline.
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280370#Comment_1280370
So you would rather the game die off because most people who play SWF stops playing the game?
The devs are working to make the Killer experience better, hell they've proven that with the recent map reworks, but they cannot touch SWF because that's where a huge chunk of the Survivor playerbase is coming from.
You're doing what all SWF do, playing both sides of the argument.
We say SWF is a big issue, so SWF say "lol it's not even half of all matches"
So we say nerf them, but suddenly they're a big enough share that we can't even dare touch them.
You try to argue that it'll kill the game. The lack of killers is already poised to kill the game. More and more survivors every day, yet less and less killers.
When people are waiting 20 minutes for a game because there's no killers left except the mori killers, do you think the game is going to keep being fine?
Map reworks don't stop the SWF issues either.
If they cannot touch SWF, why are they allowed to cripple killer metas? nurse was the competitive killer, so she got 'reworked' but it was a super-nerf. Hex ruin became widely used because we needed it for low-mobility killers, so it got obliterated. The excuse of the size of the playerbase affected is null and void.
As long as you keep this "we can never do ANYTHING because even to dare discuss this would hurt the playerbase" attitude, killers will keep leaving.
You're not even prepared to look at the potential solutions, keep shafting the killers with gameplay that is the antithesis of fun and your predicted playerbase decline will happen anyway.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280316#Comment_1280316
Making it opt-in will only make wait time for people wanting to play with friends even longer. Not every survivor group is toxic or good. I play with friends regularly and we're nowhere near great, but we have fun and that's what counts. I would not want to have even longer wait times because a handful of people act toxic to killers when the rest of us just want to have fun.
I'm sick of that excuse. Every time on this forum that SWF is brought up, it's the exact same pathetic excuse. "not all of them are bad so we cannot do anything about it at all". You'll happily let killers experience cheating SWF all the time as long as one single SWF team isn't cheating out of all of them.
Wait times are already awful for survivors, the longer survivors keep up this pathetic excuse the worse it will get. More and more killers are quitting or refusing to play without mori.
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@Marcavecunc said:
Unpopular opinion: I used to hate playing against a group of flashlight clickers, now I find it enjoyable because it's a challenge to kill them all. It's nice seeing all the tactics people come up with and trying to find counters to them. And often, they're fun matches. The only times the fun is ruined is if they're toxic in the chat after the game ended. There's no need for that.
So make it opt-in. But they won't , because SWF is a cash-cow.
I still see all the original points as valid. There's an exodus of killers and an increase in wait times for a reason.
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@MargretAtWalmart said:
not to sound rude, but thats assuming not one person died or already used DS, not to mention they might be so far away from a door DS is irrelevant
I only say player 1 and 2 because it only requires that 2 be alive to do it. 2 can be dead. And the only reason you are that far away from a door in EGC is if they purposefully went the wrong way just to let others get out.
This is an abuse strat I see constantly as killer, but as always players always make excuses for SWF by saying "well it's not 100% of the time guaranteed constant therefore we can keep ignoring it"
Keep ignoring it. More killers will quit and wait times will keep increasing.
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@Akito said:
yea dont allow people playing dbd with their friends thats tawxic
No one even called it toxic, just not fun. Your default reaction tells you me clearly read this thoroughly and understood the point being made, of course.
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@MargretAtWalmart said:
how is it cheating though? im honestly curious, i just see it as a 5 second enforcement of anti tunneling and think its completely balanced because the only want to activate it is to be picked up. I'm not saying survivors cant be toxic either though and in fact i will give you my five cents about is. I was in a match a few weeks ago and this Steve kept messaging me saying i was being a douche for leaving them when he opened the door against a Freddy who you need to safely amuse has blood warden or you will most likely regret it. he just kept messaging me with stupid salty things like "#########" or "uninstall trash" which is why i think the dbd community itself though is more toxic than any perk in the game. though where most people find teabagging toxic, i tend to laugh and teabag back. again, just my five cents.
SWF team. All of them have DS and have told each other they took DS.
End game collapse, you hook player 1. He has DS.
Player 2 unsafely unhooks even with you right behind them.
You can't hook player 1, DS will fire and you lose rank progress and will get no kill.
You hook player 2.
Player 1 returns and unhooks unsafely again.
Both have DS active for a mix of 40 to 60 seconds. Exit gate isn't on the opposite side of the map so they can slug-crawl all the way to the exit or you will take derank and pip loss and get nothing if you pick any of them up.
That is how it's cheating.
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@MargretAtWalmart said:
i feel that playing both sides helps you to understand the game as a whole. i play survivor a lot so i personally think that DS is balanced, but i understand why it annoys you. its meant to be an anti tunneling perk to help survivors from being camped and insta hooked or tunneled in general. i don't mind the shout outs about my position personally though (probably because i'm a low rank killer). although playing killer made me realize that my support builds can also be perceived as really toxic even though that wasn't my intention. ever since Yui and the MOM buffs came out i really loved running breakout and MOM together as as anti hooking support build. after playing as killer and going against similar builds i understand why killers get angry about that built because suddenly a flock of squadettes appear with MOM and breakout and it is really annoying. even after experiencing these thing though, i still love playing clown and plague and it doesn't affect my overall experience (unless were talking about the survivors who grind their teammates then i just tunnel them cuz i feel bat for their teammates that they try to kill)
DS as a standalone perk is balanced, but it is abused. Anyone who advocates for its current state is advocating for abusing the mechanic.
The whole point is it's anti-tunneling. No one has an issue with one-off DS, the problem is that SWF use it intentionally to stack it at the end so that no matter what they get free at the end during EGC.
This thread is not about DS abuse on its own though, it's about SWF cheating as a whole and DS abuse is only a small part of it.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280094#Comment_1280094
I must admit that I don't have any ideas to combat that, short of removing the feature altogether which obviously isn't really an option, but then again it is 5AM for me so my brain isn't that turned on at the moment. In any case, I'm glad I was able to understand where you're coming from, it's always good to get different perspectives on things like this 😊
The biggest problem is there is no real discussion on the dev-side on even trying to deal with it. It's always shut with the classic "well they aren't winning that much more often compared to solo survivors so we see no problem". You can read Q&As from them and it's a frequent default response.
One way would be to remove deranking for killers during SWF games. The problem with that is the devs have lazily made all anti-griefing mechanics tied to rank so you remove all anti-griefing measures if you remove deranking.
Otherwise, at the very least they just need to start looking at the problem properly. We get nowhere whilst the devs continue with their cookie-cutter response each time, and more and more killers leave or stop playing unless they have saved up for a mori by playing survivor.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280076#Comment_1280076
I see, so the problem is that regardless of whether you manage to kill them all or not, you still feel helpless while doing it and that's the part that's not fun? Am I understanding that correctly?
That's a lot closer, yeah.
It's not raw skill that is hindering us, that is something I can appreciate. A survivor who does a good fake during a chase to buy themselves 5 meters and 10 seconds is good and fun. But all the reasons I listed in the original post and likely many more, they aren't fun and they actively ruin the fun of the match. If the match isn't fun, I don't care what my score was, and SWF teams have ways to cripple the fun for the killer and overall hinder the killer in ways that we cannot counter without dev intervention of some kind.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280017#Comment_1280017
Well, for me and for most people I personally know, killing survivors who play well or optimally is fun, even if stuff happened during the match that wasn't. In fact, the more challenging the match is, the more enjoyable managing to defeat the survivors in spite of all that becomes. I don't need to kill everyone to have a fun game either - I've had plenty of enjoyable losses in the past - but if I do play against a team of flashlight clickers who are great at looping and frustrating or unfun to play against, killing them is way more fun than watching them all escape. For me, getting a 4K in that situation largely redeems the hell that was the match.
I'm not trying to invalidate your perspective, I'm trying to understand it because it's obviously different to my own.
I understand that some people want a challenge, and I think that's probably a topic more about how easy it is to get to high rank rather than a more spread out increase in the difficulty ( especially as the playerbase is only growing).
For me, and I think for a lot of people including those I know who also main killer, the problem is that we have no means to get around this.
A smart solo survivor can take perks that help his team, and that can be playing well. A good solo survivor might just be good at giving chase, and that can be fun.
The problem is when you can blatantly see the survivors always perfectly reacting to you in ways they otherwise could never do. As I've said, info from hooked survivors no matter how far away you are as long as there's line of sight, object of obsession being used to ensure all your chases last twice as long due to any tricks you attempt being spoiled, and even stuff like entire SWF teams taking Decisive Strike and stacking it on you during end game collapse, blatantly unsafe-unhooking right in front of you whilst knowing no one can be hooked again because everyone has DS active.
There's no incentive for us to put up with this, we don't get more bloodpoints, we're still eligible to derank (And killers already have a tougher time ranking up compared to survivors), and we're being taken for a ride that we can't do much about. At this point, there's no point playing, and important to the devs; there's no point paying further either. I've no interest in buying another killer DLC just to watch the same crap happen that I can't do anything about.
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@Fibijean said:
May I ask - and no malice intended, I'm genuinely curious - if we assume that the winrate thing is true, and that you are almost as likely to kill SWF players as solo players, what about that isn't fun for you? I understand that certain parts of the match prior to that might not be enjoyable, but isn't it still fun (some would say more so) if you manage to kill them all regardless? Or is a 4K only fun if everything that led up to it was fun as well?
"what about that isn't fun for you"
I listed reason after reason. Watching people blatantly cheat right in front of us is not fun. Knowing all our efforts get exploited is not fun.
Knowing that survivors get advance warning because a hooked survivor has line of sight on me isn't fun.
Knowing I cannot damage a gen because they tell each other when I do so that they can always bring new people in to prevent regression isn't fun.
This isn't about maxing score. I don't need to kill 4 survivors to have a fun game. It's about the actual gameplay, the other 99% in between start and finish, being fun or not. SWF makes that entire process not fun as we watch them cheat again and again and again.
If a survivor ranks up but after 2-3 minutes they got tunneled and felt like they were screwed, are you going to say it's fine as long as they rank up? Or did something actually cripple the gameplay for them.
When you annihilate 4 solo players, it's a long standing tradition that you try to find the hatch for the 4th if you've had a good game, as long as they weren't being toxic. With SWF, we're being shafted the entire game, right before our eyes, and we are powerless to stop it.
The actual gameplay is not fun, so what happens on the score screen is irrelevant. I can have a good game and see 3 solo survivors make it out alive and 1 die, as long as the actual internal gameplay was fun. 4K and double-pip is meaningless if it was an absolute tedious pain to do it.