TransverseCaster
TransverseCaster
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- TransverseCaster
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1647379#Comment_1647379
4 Forever Freddy's in a row my dude. I highly doubt that.
I actually believe it because I've had similar things happen. Three docs in a row all NOED or three Gordon's in a row. Actually facing Gordon is always a pleasure. But my point is that I believe it can happen. There are only like two popular builds on Freddy anyways.
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
Remember booping the snoot is unwanted physical contact, meaning sexual harassment. So murder the ######### outta them for violating your space.
It's only acceptable if you have them cornered. It's simple power dynamics.
"Remember booping the snoot is unwanted physical contact, meaning sexual harassment."
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1647973#Comment_1647973
I can add, subtract, multiply, and divide. I can even do statistical equations. What I'm pointing out is one "disconnect" can ruin (and usually does) an entire game. This is how the process goes right now:
- We go ready to look for a match.
- We find a match and people have a chance to leave the Lobby before the game starts (perfectly acceptable).
- Somebody disconnects after the game has started to load. This causes a net loss of minimum (5) minutes for everyone involved.
OR
- A Killer disconnects and Everyone loses out and the net loss is usually 5-10 minutes. *More if some of the game is played.
- A Survivor (or several) disconnect after the game has started. This is absolutely the WORST outcome because losing even one Survivor can cause the remaining three a long, miserable game. Net loss up to 20+ minutes.
Now, I know you feel my basic skills with numbers are suspect, but I want to point out that diverting a minority of problem players to their own Que will result between 1-5 minutes longer looking for a game. That means the worst case of my suggestion is no worst than the BEST case of the current disconnect situation. So, yes.. I will gladly wait a few extra minutes to get my match started knowing it isn't going to be ruined and thus lose even MORE time.
"I can even do statistical equations"
This is one of those things that sounds good when you're 16 but not after taking college level statistics lol
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1647953#Comment_1647953
You said in one post that people have not to put up with the filthy way a person plays this game but that is where you are incorrect, they indeed have to because that is why dc penalties do exist. There is no reason but the tantrum they throw, you click ready, you are ready to deal with whatever the game throws at you, everything that currently is in the game and within the rules of the game.
The literally only reason as to why a dc would be ok is when you game is bugged and you are stuck and nobody be it killer or survivor can get you out of it. So there you have it, i meant what I said about people who dc in general to me they are a bunch of crybabies and we are all better off without them.
"You said in one post that people have not to put up with the filthy way a person plays this game but that is where you are incorrect, they indeed have to because that is why dc penalties do exist."
What we're talking about is the kind of DC. The real people we want to target are those DCing on a whim. They just feel like they have a slight disadvantage and want a new match. Those are the people that penalties exist to stop. The infamous line "just take a break and play Civ 6" (paraphrase) kind of clues us in to other kinds of DCs. There are selfish DCs(being Tbagged and DS'd into submission are common causes), selfless DCs(letting someone else get hatch), necessity DCs(life happened), etc. The main problem children are the whimmers. The people that just don't like the way the game started or went so they DC on a whim.
The kind you're referencing are those that are selfish DCs. People that get bad mannered out of the game and they need to go play Civ 6. Penalties actually don't effect them because they're just leaving the game sometimes and that's fine. The fact they were BM'd is a bigger problem in my opinion because that drags the whole community down more than a DC. The penalties are great because they target the whimmers, which I think are the worst types because it's not even understandable why they would just throw the towel so quickly.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1647804#Comment_1647804
I seriously doubt the disconnect crowd outnumber the rest of us. They seem to be a distinct minority. I don't think it would slow us down at all.
"They seem to be a distinct minority"
The way you've been talking one would think that every game you play you end up with DCs.
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@Ecstasy said:
"If two people are left and there is no chance of winning, then it's respectful to DC so the other person can get the hatch."
Status Effect: Poor Sportsmanship
"First off, there's no reason not to be selfish. Second of all, as a survivor you're part of a team. If you can help someone get out on your team, that is selfless. Thirdly this has nothing to do with abuse. If you feel abused from video games you should not be buying nor playing them. Grow up."
Status Effect: Rationalization.
Obviously if there are other options then use them but sometimes there aren't. It is extremely common for me to be slugged at the end game and just sit there doing nothing while my teammate could be going for hatch. It's actually penalizing that teammate because the killer now has an unfair lead on looking for hatch.
Status Effect: Premeditation.
"If a survivor feels they have to DC in order to save a teammate or not be staring at a slug for five minutes then that's the game's fault-not anyone else's. Maybe stop slugging the third person because you desperately crave that final kill."
Status Effect: Apologism.
So if I slug them and let them bleed out to death every game, that's fair? And what the actual [BAD WORD] is the point of the hatch if I can just bypass it like that? It's a direct contravention to a game mechanic. This is basically systemic toxicity and probably the main reason why this game has unparalleled rage quitting.
Status Effect: Denial.
TransverseCaster Posts: 239
"I never did. Show me a single point where I said that other people("advocate") should be doing this("cheating"). Never happened. Doesn't exist"
Status Effect: Oblivious.
Status Effect: Delusional.
Status Effect: Deceptive.
Status Effect: Shameless.
I'll tell you what, this was an original post with good,readable form so I'll respond to it. You see that part where I first said that it has been used respectfully? That's what the entire argument of advocation came from. I never did it. I never said anyone else should do it. The whole reason I brought it up is because it happened to me, when I gave the Ghostface example and the guys DC'd on me to get hatch because I tried to circumvent that mechanic. They were trying to be selfless because they were in a SWF, but I myself get slugged pretty often and I absolutely hate it so I can see why people ended up doing it while they watched other people running around and playing the game. The whole purpose was to expose two underlying causes for DCs.
I've got to say that you got kinda greedy at the end. The comedic effect was there until you just started spamming. Not bad overall but sometimes less is more :)
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He was wildly underrated during the testing and immediate release. I tried him and hated it thinking it was a combination of everyone else's weaknesses. But then I started facing decent Blight's and noticing the things they did. For instance, simple things like bouncing off of an obstacle in order to reorient for a second bounce is a design feature, not a gimmick. It let's him re-angle after misses too. He's actually pretty smart design and he's super fun to play against.
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@cannonballB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1647865#Comment_1647865
No. You're saying "we should talk about DCs! These are the reasons!"
Nobody cares. Reasons are irrelelvent if you're screwing up the game for others. As I said, your ends do not justify the means.
"No. You're saying "we should talk about DCs! These are the reasons!""
Well yeah. If you don't want to hear it that's fine but then again why bother posting at all? I didn't make you come to my FredTalk. My whole thing was that people are DCing for a lot of different reasons, not always just because of whim. I never once said I like to DC and the best example I could give is when someone saved their buddy through hatch by DCing on me while I was Ghostie.
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@Nobsyde said:
@TransverseCaster your posts are too long and I don't even know what your point is anymore, but I'm curious, so, I'll give you one yes or no type of question to help me out here:
considering how the game currently is (slugging, moris, clicky clicking...), are you in favour of DC penalties?
If not:
do you agree that when you DC, whatever your reason, you make the other players experience worse (sometimes the killer experience, sometimes the survivors' one, sometimes both)?
if not:
would you agree to play a version of DbD where everyone could, at any point (*), "surrender" (basically: DC), regardless of when the trial started?
(*): actually, let's do your version - a survivor can surrender whenever they are downed, a killer can surrender whenever they want.
"considering how the game currently is (slugging, moris, clicky clicking...), are you in favour of DC penalties?"
Yes. Big time dude. Five minute ramping penalties were effective and I don't know why they keep taking them out.
"do you agree that when you DC, whatever your reason, you make the other players experience worse (sometimes the killer experience, sometimes the survivors' one, sometimes both)?"
This was an if-not question, but I already gave a situation where I was the killer and someone DC'd to save their buddy and I respected them for it. It's why Mound was losing his mind. For most cases yeah it sucks, but I tried to screw them out of hatch and they outplayed me by DCing to save his buddy, which was morally selfless. It's a shame the game would encourage that action but I don't feel cheated by it and he was a complete bro for taking a 30k BP loss and taking a penalty timer(at the time we had them).
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1647822#Comment_1647822
Why do you think dc penalties do exist? I literally hope that once bhvr has figured it out, you just end up each game with the situation you hate the most. Everytime you dc, you stay longer out of the game. Or you end up with the same type of players, everytime something goes like you do not want or they are in a situation they call filthy or whatever they dc, hf in those.
Until you either grow up or until you leave the game, nobody needs you in their game. I mean it, people who dc should just quit. you ruin games, nobody likes you, not killers not survivors.
"I literally hope that once bhvr has figured it out, you just end up each game with the situation you hate the most. Everytime you dc, you stay longer out of the game."
I never said I DC'd? Why would you think I did? The whole example I gave was where I was the killer(Ghostface as usual) and someone DC'd on me.
"Until you either grow up or until you leave the game, nobody needs you in their game. I mean it, people who dc should just quit. you ruin games, nobody likes you, not killers not survivors."
I don't know who you think you're talking to mister but it ain't me. I think what happened here is that you read someone else's post saying I advocate for DC and I never did. My experience with DC that I gave was where someone else DC'd to save their buddy, which is why I said that I've seen someone be respectful before by doing it. Was it disrespectful to me? Well I could see why someone would think that. It's not something I do for others and even admitted I was selfish enough not to DC in order to save someone.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1647888#Comment_1647888
There is nothing altruistic about cheating the Killer's player. Again, as I explained in my very first response to you, your fellow Survivors are not the only living, breathing players in the game. The Killer is also a Player, not a bot, and deserves to be treated respectfully and not cheated. Any use of something outside the game (and a disconnect most certainly meets that criteria) to affect the outcome of the game, is a cheat. I called you on it, other people called you on it, and the Moderator called you on it. You have been literally hit but a BUS with the words "DON'T ADVOCATE CHEATING" painted on the side. That bus is metaphorically full of the people who have addressed this with you.
At this point I don't know which is worse, that you are incapable of understanding such a black and white issue (which would make me question your faculties) or that your pride and arrogance are so pronounced and bad that you simply cannot accept your mistake. You seem to be one of those people who has to have the last word. Well, you know what, I'm going to give it to you. You bore me. I pity you. I said I was stepping away earlier but you sucked me back in because I seriously want to get through to you. But I'm done with this advocacy for cheating. Until you come online with yet ANOTHER different type of cheating you are supporting, I'm out.
"There is nothing altruistic about cheating the Killer's player"
I was the killer and I lost maybe 2k bloodpoints tops when this happened to me. The player who did it had to take a 30k bloodpoint loss and at least a five minute penalty timer for it(there were timers active at that point). That is, by any definition, selfless. He did it to help his friend. Did it screw me? I'm not worried about 2k bloodpoints. Maybe you are and that's okay. The ultimate point is that he did this not because of a whim or because he was selfish but to help his friend. Whether you would or not is moot. He took a sacrifice of BPs and time so his buddy could make it and this does happen to be a game that encourages altruism through saves. That means the reasons for DCs-whether you like them or not- are multifaceted. Now I'm not saying it would be fair for him to DC you, but clearly there should have been an option that negated that DC. Personally I don't think I should have been able to bump hatch before he got to it. I played around the whole purpose of that mechanic. On the other hand, if he was slugged and couldn't reach the hatch then a bleed out option would have meant he wouldn't have to DC either which would allow for bloodpoint compensation on both ends to prevent that from happening. This solution was already mentioned by someone else and I think it's good.
"Any use of something outside the game (and a disconnect most certainly meets that criteria) to affect the outcome of the game, is a cheat."
This was never in contention whatsoever. You will never find this in contention anywhere. I'm not sure why you felt you had to reiterate something everyone in this thread has agreed to from the beginning, both explicitly and implicitly.
" You have been literally hit but a BUS with the words "DON'T ADVOCATE CHEATING" painted on the side"
I never did. Show me a single point where I said that other people("advocate") should be doing this("cheating"). Never happened. Doesn't exist. I said it has happened and I pointed out a case-where I was the killer- where this happened. The entire point of that discussion was to bring up alternatives for gameplay development that take this into account and prevent DCs for a multitude of reasons-including selfless ones.
"that you are incapable of understanding such a black and white issue"
...What? Look this isn't that hard to figure out so I don't know why I have to repeat it back to you every single post: I'm not arguing that cheating is bad. I'm arguing that DCing is done for a variety of reasons and if you understand those reasons you can mitigate it drastically. I'm trying to discuss the reasons for DC and how to move forward past those underlying causes to prevent them. Nobody is disagreeing about cheating being bad and no one ever was. I don't know why you're still having trouble moving past this because every single post I've made has elucidated on this point. I think this must be a case of Dunning-Kruger because we're no longer talking past one another. I'm addressing what you're saying and you keep repeating it like a broken record after it's already been addressed.
" You seem to be one of those people who has to have the last word"
I was never advocating cheating even once. I pointed out a reason some people are doing it that is not inherently selfish. The entire purpose of that example(where by your definition I'm the victim) was to make clear the reasons people DC and what could be done to solve it. If you can't figure out something I've already been telling you since my second post, like a dozen posts ago, then you probably should leave because you're so utterly hopeless you can't even begin to figure out what I'm saying even after I've written a book explaining it. But if you were being honest here you would just admit you never actually cared about anyone else's point of view or improving the game- you just wanted to scream cheater until you felt like you personally took down someone that DC'd against you before(which I promise you, was not me).
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1647806#Comment_1647806
What you view as the underlying causes do not matter; they are entirely irrelevant. You advocate cheating as an acceptable option. That is the only thing that matters in so far as the communication between you and I. You see cheating as acceptable; I (most people in fact) don't. I don't care if you believe me. Anyone who has read my posts know that I'm almost painfully strict about what I say. I don't believe in hypocrisy. If I had reported you, I would happily admit to it because you did violate the Forum rules by advocating people break the game's rules.
Personally, I don't think anyone reported you. I think the Moderators just saw your post. :)
"What you view as the underlying causes do not matter; they are entirely irrelevant"
I wasn't speaking personally. The very first post I made that told you why people might do it for altruism literally happened to me. I was the killer in the best game I've ever had when it happened. Tell me why I should feel cheated? I'm not saying they didn't break the rules, but if you can't grasp the underlying causes of why it happens then you can't even begin to talk about how to fix them. This statement proves that you have zero interest in actually figuring out the issue and solving the problem because those things are relevant to everyone and they should be relevant to you.
"You advocate cheating as an acceptable option."
Show me where I said more people should do this. I told you that it had been used for altruistic purposes and then gave you an example where people used it against me to demonstrate the source of why that comment was made. Obviously there's a problem with the game if people feel the need to DC not just for pointless purposes, not just for selfish purposes, but for selfless purposes as well. Now if you really find that so painful to hear then you can argue why that wasn't selfless and why I should've felt cheated when that SWF did it to me. According to you, I as the killer should have felt cheated but I didn't. That's just me personally. That entire point I brought up was just something that happened to me and I thought they were being selfless by doing it-which they were. I lost maybe 2k bloodpoints for him doing that to save his friend, he lost almost 30k. I get that if it were you, you would have video evidence a written,notarized hardcopy of your complaint kept on file with a triplicate sent to BHVR headquarters with the duplicate filed for possible future legal injunction for infringing on terms of service- but you fail to:
1)Understand why DCs happen.
2)Offer solutions for why DCs happen.
3)Attempt any method of offering or playstyle that mitigates that behaviour.
We get it. You don't like it when people quit your games. But really there is no reason for you to post constantly and say nothing of value. What's the point of repeating yourself if your only claim is erroneous(screaming cheater) and you can't figure out what's causing people the kind of distress you obviously have over it.
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@Ecstasy said:
Status Effect: Projection
That's literally been you this entire time, you're doing it right now with this post lmao
But I have to say, I really like that you and mound get back to me within minutes of replying. I appreciate the expediency. Kind of weird your account was made in late 18' but you have only a few interactions, likes, and comments with this much activity.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1647681#Comment_1647681
Penalties were removed due to them being able to be hacked and give people who did not dc a penalty. and we aren't talking a single game that penalizes the wrong person but a specific person being given a 72 hour ban in a high profile way (since they are a fog whisperer and a high level streamer).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646902#Comment_1646902
They HAVE brought up valid, just not valid in your books. you are advocating cheating, you are the one that the mods censured I certainly did not report the post. Stop blaming others for your issues. I have taken issue with your posts before and you have blown them off because you didn't like them. Disconnecting is cheating; why? if you do something against the rules then you are CHEATING. I don't care if the devs made a rule you ethically do not like but you can't say "If the killer walks sideways two inches then backwards four then runs forward 10 it's ok to dc" and then say well i don't advocate for people to dc, because you JUST DID! (yes that was not what you said but it was for an example) NOW here is the thing, if you break the rules, the End Users License Agreement you agree to EVERY TIME you log into the game allows those in charge to do what even is within the rules to you, and that includes removing your ability to play the game for a time or for good. THIS IS THEIR CHOICE not yours.
ALSO the underlying cause for the disconnects is not what you are saying it is, it is the fact that people decide (killer or survivor) they don't like something so they feel since they paid for it they can just up and quit. sure they can do so as the functionality is available to them, but they also MUST accept that they can be punished for it if behavior wants to do so. "I don't like playing freddy, I'll dc." "I don't like Ormond, I'll DC" I don't like blah, blah, blah. key is that they do not like it so they leave it. the only time that the leave match functionality is supposed to be used is when the game will not come to a natural conclusion (via sac/escape) so that you don't have to wait 2-3 hours for the match to be dropped by the server. It is not something to be used because the killer nodded at you, or slugged you, hit you on the hook, or that the survivors are tbaggin you, or played a map offering. none of these are reasons to use OUT OF MATCH FUNCTIONALITY.
"They HAVE brought up valid, just not valid in your books"
Yes, and there's no reason I should consider it valid. Nor should you. We know DCs happen so why can't we talk about why they happen? I'm not telling anyone that they should do it to others. I don't feel cheated when people do it to me. That's all. The problem is that you and two others refuse to admit the underlying causes and it's really weird you would invest so much discussion on something and not move past your initial claim. My point is that DC happens for a reason and you probably need to figure out what those reasons are and then we can talk about what can fix the issue.
"I certainly did not report the post"
....I wasn't speaking to you Freki? Are you just Mound with a second account? lmfao
And no I don't advocate cheating. I just said I don't feel cheated by something like this that happens and gave you a scenario where it happened to me and I didn't feel cheated. Rather than reiterating something we've already hammer at least a dozen times, why not discuss why I should feel cheated when I didn't? Or the scenarios that cause it? Or how to fix those scenarios? Because I keep telling you over and over and OVER again that this is not the intention of my conversational points. Move past it.
"'if you do something against the rules then you are CHEATING"
What a brave position to take lol we've already kind of established this like in the very beginning of this thread
"yes that was not what you said but it was for an example"
So you accuse me of "advocating cheating" and then admit that's not what I said? Why are you going to accuse me then back out of it in the very next breath? This is absurd. You are absurd. At this point I can't tell if you're either just piggybacking on others for the attention or if this is an alt account. This is a very bizarre thing to do.
"ALSO the underlying cause for the disconnects is not what you are saying it is, it is the fact that people decide (killer or survivor) they don't like something so they feel since they paid for it they can just up and quit"
Read the first part where you said it's not what I said it is. Now read the part's where that's exactly what I said it is. I've already covered very specific scenarios that the game encourages it. I already posted about how a group did it to me for morally altruistic reasons and I respected them for it. I'm not saying you have to(although, I think my mentality is a little bit healthier than the guy who records every game and submits video evidence every time a player doesn't sate his ego and decides not to play). The point of that is that I can see why they did that. If you want people to not do that, you have to give them alternatives. But you gave a few good examples. People who DC on a map they don't like when there are offerings to go where they do want to- that's an uncommon but fair example that happens from time to time. I've never done that, I don't know anyone personally who does that, I don't see why you would do that, and even worse there is no work around for people who are too lazy to light an offering just to go to a map they like. I don't think there's an answer to fix that particular problem.
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@Ecstasy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646886#Comment_1646886
"GAWSH! I"M NOT ADVOCATING CHEATING.... IT'S JUST AN INCREDIBLY NOBLE SACRIFICE!!!"
Please just stop already. Your whole crusade is intellectually dishonest, delusional, or both. Whatever sly insinuations you think you're getting away with.... you're not. Everyone keeps calling you out for advocating cheating because that's what you're doing, albeit with the incredibly petty style of a child hovering their hands a centimeter over you and going "OH! I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU! I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU!!!"
For whatever reason, you can't distinguish between actions and behaviors within the game's context (ones also explicitly approved) from those trying to affect the game from outside that in-game context (ones also explicitly prohibited as clarified to you officially now). That's... weird, but whatever. The part that's really screwy (aside from the persecution complex) is that you still refuse to walk away at that point like an adult and simply agree you disagree with the standards. In a brazen sense of entitlement, you're ridiculously invoking the language of civil disobedience and moral standing to rationalize an act of FLIPPING THE GAMEBOARD OVER.
I'm just going to repeat what I'd already said last time, because this is the point where you should've stopped. And stopped. And stopped:
Regardless, it all ultimately comes down to this: if you can't accept the gameplay that exists as it does, then the only adult decision is that you shouldn't play. You don't take it into your own hands to disconnect when you get slugged. That is exactly like taking the ball home and boo-hoo-hooing all the way home. Just like we started with. Just like this conversation will end up with. Because that's what it is. You may never agree with that, but the rules of this game certainly gel with that comparison. If you didn't know that slugging was acceptable before, you do now. So, until you can change the rules, please abide by the game that exists in goodfath or make that mature decision not to play.
Please heed your own advice and grow up. This is beyond ridiculous.
"Your whole crusade"
There is no crusade. I was just pointing out reasons, especially one horrible scenario, that you and others support that leads directly to DCs. If you don't like it that's your problem. You keep complaining about how people shouldn't play the game because of the filthy way you play but in all reality no one has to play with you and if you keep complaining about other people not wanting to play with you maybe you should be the one to take a break.
"Whatever sly insinuations"
There aren't any. I told you why people don't like playing with you. Get over yourself.
"you still refuse to walk away at that point like an adult and simply agree you disagree with the standards"
I did that already in my second post. Then I followed up and did that in every other post sense then. I don't owe you an apology but you seem to think I do, which if anything is a brazen sense of entitlement. You're doing the same thing mound is doing- just repeating the same thing over and over again like a broken record without actually discussing the real points and problems that were brought up. The fact is, whether you like it or not, I presented a scenario where someone supposedly "cheated" me and I respected them for it. The whole point is that the game, by valuing altruism, has created scenarios where it is morally altruistic yet ethically considered cheating to DC. That's where the discussion was initially put at in the first place. Rather than actually explaining how to fix this or even acknowledging it- you and two just keep screaming cheater the entire time. Maybe this is my fault because you seem dysfunctional.
"I'm just going to repeat what I'd already said last time"
I'm not reading that. Everything you need to do to advance the conversation has already been repeated. If you don't like playing with other people and they obviously have a problem with you then you need to reevaluate yourself.
"grow up"
You keep saying these things that apply to you and only you. Watch this:
"GAWSH! I"M NOT ADVOCATING CHEATING.... IT'S JUST AN INCREDIBLY NOBLE SACRIFICE!!!"
"OH! I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU! I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU!!!"
"FLIPPING THE GAMEBOARD OVER"
Complete with three exclamation marks. You sound like a child but you expect anyone else to take you seriously? You seem neurotic and you definitely need a break. Probably from internet interactions as well. Again, drop the pointless accusations and debate the myriad of other points that were put to you.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646902#Comment_1646902
I didn't report your post; why would I? You posted advocating cheating on the Forum. The Moderators read the posts to moderate them. Did you think they wouldn't notice? If you are talking about reporting in a match, I absolutely would report someone for disconnecting in game. I record every match so I can provide video evidence. And yes, I have reported people before for doing EXACTLY what you advocated, i.e. one person simply disconnecting at just the right time so the person I was chasing would get the hatch before I caught them. Clearly, that took SWF-style communication since neither of them could see each other. The one that disconnected wasn't even on the hook or slugged.
I know the Forum has ways to report a post, but I didn't report you. I was perfectly content to point out the unethical garbage of your position, and hit you with it over and over again until I got bored. To be honest, you are pretty boring. When it became clear that you simply cannot understand (discern) the right and wrong of the matter, trying to reach you became moot. I'll tilt at the cheater windmill until Hell freezes over. As far as I am concerned, that is a worthy fight. But I'm sure other people are pretty sick of our belaboring this further. I'm stepping out unless you openly call for cheating again. Lying is also bad for your image. 1. I didn't report you. 2. The Moderators have strict ethics and they wouldn't tell you who reported you anyway.
I don't believe you because of how petty you've been this entire time. Every time I moved the topic forward to underlying causes of DCs you just went back to screaming cheater every single time. You had nothing worthwhile to say this entire time and just repeated this one point over and over again even when I was clearly talking about other things related to it. If you saw that the mod had already stepped in- then why else would it be worthwhile to tell me something we all already knew? I even explicitly told you that I wasn't advocating it and then you kept insisting I was after I told you I'm not. And then you, like the other, strangely had the nerve to mention "good faith" hilariously. Even stranger was the fact that you acknowledged that I was talking about underlying causes but wanted it moved to a different thread even though that would just clog up the board when this thread is fine.
And what was all of your fuss about? You felt cheated out of a few thousand bloodpoints? Sure. I get that. But I've already given you a scenario where I don't feel cheated by it, underlying causes as to why DCs happen, and there are at least two different ways survivors and killers could be compensated if the issues were fixed- but hey that would be conversational progress and we can't have that.
"Lying is also bad for your image"
What image? This is a forum? We don't know each other. And secondly I didn't like. I said something and you could either deny it or claim it. The fact you've done nothing but make personal attacks and accuse me of cheating when my whole point was to challenge your views made you suspect.
"I record every match so I can provide video evidence"
You remind me of that Twilight Zone where the guy collects evidence on all of his neighbors and social figures and reports them to the police. TO BE CLEAR I am not advocating you to not report the horrible misdeeds of everyone or anyone who trespasses on your precious game time and/or bloodpoints, but this seems like a really weird thing to do for someone just having fun in their spare time.
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@0mikeya0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646454#Comment_1646454
If it's turning into an anti-tunnel perk then it shouldn't deactivate because the survivor jumped into a locker. Odds are they jumped in the locker because the killer is tunneling.
There are other anti tunneling perks. Besides, if they jump in a locker to fight off a killer they're more likely using head on, which is good enough.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646751#Comment_1646751
Well, I was hopeful, but not optimistic. You fail in every way imaginable, analytically, rhetorically, and more importantly... ethically. I'm trying to do you a favor here. I don't know if you have noticed, but you aren't winning anyone over to your side. In fact, every time you post you dig yourself in a little deeper. I'm not into clubbing baby seals, so I'm tired of this. However, just be aware... every time you make a post advocating cheating... people are going to call you on it.
"You fail in every way imaginable, analytically, rhetorically, and more importantly... ethically."
If that were true, then you could point out how. Since you can't it's because I haven't. You haven't actually brought up any valid points whatsoever and then misconstrued everything I said. Can you even name an argument that didn't revolve around your attempt to get me banned? It's literally why the mods came in here. When the mods come in then everyone else feels safe to attack that same thing regardless of what was actually said. The whole thing was pretty underhanded and dirty.
"you aren't winning anyone over to your side. In fact, every time you post you dig yourself in a little deeper"
I'm just stating points and waiting for counterpoints. No one has yielded a single counterpoint. The entire conversation is me pointing out "hey, maybe people are DCing because ____" and then you and two random people saying "cheating is bad man". We're talking past each other and it's because you refuse to talk about anything substantial.
"every time you make a post advocating cheating"
I pointed out that there is a situation where a person DCing can benefit a person in the game and explained why that DC happens. You keep coming back to this because you're trying to get me banned. I know because I've had two mods talk to me, so I know you're the one that reported me. Twice. Why? Because you can't handle conversations apparently.
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@cannonballB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646761#Comment_1646761
No the problem with your premise is you're screwing other people in the game.
No, I'd someone feels something is wrong, that does *not* entitle them to violate those standards. Otherwise I could argue I could murder someone because I felt they were wrong and violating my standards. That's not how society works.
"No, I'd someone feels something is wrong, that does *not* entitle them to violate those standards. Otherwise I could argue I could murder someone"
DCing is not the same as murder lol
And DCing so someone can get a hatch is like jumping on a grenade so they can live.
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@CannonballBri said:
I'd like to add, don't DC and then
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646383#Comment_1646383
None of your ends justify your means of getting there. You don't get to encourage dodging because you don't like the bugs that are in the game. The adult thing to do is to leave after you've given feedback and come back when you feel the bugs have been fixed or things have changed the way you want them. The absolute MOST childish thing to do is throw a temper tantrum and DC because something didn't go the way you want to.
Generally speaking, don't DC then come back into the lobby to berate the person you didn't think played right. That's just toxic and inappropriate. If you DC, stay gone. Don't come back. You made your point, no one cares what you have to say afterwards. You took the cowards way out, just go away.
"The absolute MOST childish thing to do is throw a temper tantrum and DC because something didn't go the way you want to."
I never advocated this. I merely said that in the situation of a slug-hatch standoff where the killer is slugging the penultimate player in order to secure a 4k and in the process screw the survivor out of the entire hatch mechanism, that it could be considered altruistic to leave the match and let the last player get the hatch. I say this because I was playing killer in the best match I've ever had and this is what the team did to me to get their last slugged player to escape. According to you I should be the victim, but I respected what they did.
"Generally speaking, don't DC then come back into the lobby to berate the person you didn't think played right. That's just toxic and inappropriate. If you DC, stay gone. Don't come back. You made your point, no one cares what you have to say afterwards. You took the cowards way out, just go away."
This sounds like you're speaking to a thousand other players that you have personally played with that aren't me. I've never done this, I've never said I've done this, I don't know why you would assume I've done this.
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" if you feel something in the game is wrong, it gives you the right to violate the standards of the game"
And to be clear, if anyone feels anything is wrong then they always have a right to violate the standards imposed on them. Morals always trumps ethics and it should never be the reverse. I'm saying this not to advocate cheating as I know you will insist, but because it's a life lesson that you will carry with you through real world situations. I have had jobs where I was expected to keep my mouth shut and watch people get dicked over because the people in charge felt okay with that. It would not have been right to be complicit. History teaches you enough about what happens when ethics take precedence over one's own morals.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646383#Comment_1646383
I'm going to take another stab at this, and I know I'll regret it. You seem unable to tell the difference between apples and oranges. In other words, you don't like a certain situation at the end, so you advocated cheating as a solution to it. You portrayed this act as some kind of noble, selfless nonsense. That isn't fooling anyone. Whether we agree or disagree with you about there being an option added for someone to accelerate their ability to bleed out, nobody but other reprehensible cheats (and you are actually in the minority) is going to agree with you advocating that people break the rules.
My advice, and this is given in good faith and not snarky sarcasm, is that you need to be able to tell these very different topics apart. You SHOULD start a new Discussion making suggestions on what you think would be a good idea for the end of a match, i.e. a way to start to bleed out faster. I would humbly suggest that it would NOT be instant (like a disconnect) but more like the accelerating one's time on the hook. Nobody would be arguing with you. Some of us (perhaps even me) might agree that this would be an interesting discussion and/or addition.
But the discussion in this thread is about the problem with people disconnecting. The only reason anyone should ever be disconnecting is because their internet fails, their system crashes, or a real life emergency pulls them away. Doing so for any other reason, particularly to try and affect the outcome of the match, is at best rude and disrespectful, and at worst outright cheating. You made the mistake of advocating CHEATING. Apparently, in your mind, if you feel something in the game is wrong, it gives you the right to violate the standards of the game. It does not. I'm an optimistic person, and I really want to see the best in everyone. I'm hoping laying it out this way will get through to you.
I go by the following rules:
- Don't cheat, either by hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and courteous in defeat.
Some games are going to go wrong. Some games are going to end up with you on the ground for most of the match, or tunneled and hooked enjoying a Mori without ever really having a chance. I had all of those happen to me today. It is part of the game. You shrug off the defeats, and learn whatever you can from them.
1)"You seem unable to tell the difference between apples and oranges"
No I'm not. You're going to have to qualify this because it doesn't make sense at all in regards to anything we have already discussed. I imagine you won't even explain what you meant by this.
2)"In other words, you don't like a certain situation at the end, so you advocated cheating as a solution to it"
I can't imagine what it's like to be you. So small that that most amount of power you could possibly hope to latch onto is misrepresenting all of someone's arguments just so you could get them banned. You're pathetic. Maybe you feel cheated, but I suggested that not everyone in that situation is cheated which is undoubtedly true since it does give someone the opportunity to escape. Secondly, a killer who slugs to circumvent the hatch mechanic should be construed as cheating. I'm not suggesting people should cheat, but obviously there's a reason people are DCing and you need to figure out why if you want it to stop happening. The fact that slugging to avoid a mechanic put in the game to help survivor's is being used that means that cheating has been made officially okay'd by the team and apparently is supported by the mods. It is not an honorable thing to do no matter what anyone says. I've done it before out of pettiness but it doesn't sit right with me still. Obviously there's a problem whether you want to admit it or not but the sooner you do the sooner we can have a real discussion.
3)"My advice, and this is given in good faith and not snarky sarcasm, is that you need to be able to tell these very different topics apart"
"You SHOULD start a new Discussion making suggestions on what you think would be a good idea for the end of a match"
"But the discussion in this thread is about the problem with people disconnecting"
Look at these three statements. First you say that I'm not following the topic, then you suggest I start another thread discussing on how to fix the game so people don't DC, then you say that this discussion is about people disconnecting. I'm posting the underlying answers to why people DC. That is why it is relevant. This thread wasn't designed so you could have a whining-fest about people leaving the game. We're punching past that and getting to the bottom of why people are disconnecting. It's not just one issue either. Ending crappy matches early in a decisive way without cheating people is only one solution.
4)"You made the mistake of advocating CHEATING. Apparently, in your mind, if you feel something in the game is wrong, it gives you the right to violate the standards of the game"
I said I have done it because I felt it was altruistic. I didn't market it, I just put my spin on it. It's how I feel. The killers that slug the penultimate player to override the hatch measure should be construed as cheating and I don't care what anyone says. It's putting someone in a painful situation just so you could squeeze out another kill when you've already won the game. The best game of killer I have EVER had was playing against a group and it was a tight match. I left one slugged so I could get the other and I did. But the one I slugged knew where hatch was and I knew he was close so I left the last guy down to walk over to him- but he DC'd. The penultimate player I originally left slugged made it to the hatch because his buddy took a five minute timer penalty and loss of blood points for him. It was an ultimate act of sacrifice in a tight game. I abused the hatch measures so I could get them all because I knew they were good. According to you, he cheated me, but it was such a bro-tier move I couldn't help but respect them for it. I think I left an impression because the guy that got away played with me randomly later as killer-using my same perks and my same devilface-classicrobes outfit. It's the only game I actually distinctively remember all the details of and probably the only one that I'll remember in the future. My point is that it may seem unethical to you but it is certainly not immoral even though you act like it is, and it is no more unethical than what I did when I tried to cheat them out of the hatch. If I got to replay that game over and over with different people knowing that I would be "cheated"(according to you), I would do it. Not telling you that you should in the case you think I'm still telling you that you have to do this. According to you I should be the victim in this scenario but I certainly don't feel that way.
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@Ecstasy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646383#Comment_1646383
- I'm stressing a harsh but incredibly apt comparison to DC as childish and petty behavior. I'd stated the same comparison in my earlier replies that it's tantamount to taking your ball and crying home, and before you ever replied to me. That didn't suddenly change after you had. Feel free to outline how that comparison is just totally different from disconnecting when you've lost and just want to block the killer from having their "win" though.
- I don't care about baiting you into anything, and I certainly didn't report you. My primary motivation is making logical arguments for the sake of the issue at large (hence my "novel") in hopes that it crushes this absurdity "woohoo DC=getting back at the man" in principle and for anyone maybe on the fence about goodspot vs rowdy pouty. I'm also going to keep referring to it as "your take" that people are valid to DC in that situation because that's what it is. You can rephrase it however you want to stay on the side of the forum rules, but its cumbersome enough responding without having to sugar coat the meaning of everything. However I wish you many disconnects from Killers who are just being totally fair and I'm sure you will take each one in stride.
- You are not debating the merits of slugging. You are not appealing to the devs, as I'd suggested you do instead. What you're doing here is advocating and justifying people should disconnect cuz they mad. You can pretend otherwise, but pretense won't retcon the conversation into the question of fun or not. It's about whether you're basic for taking your ball and crying when it happens instead of being mature and, yes, sucking it up like every other adult. You're not fooling anyone with "well I'm not AKKKTUALLY saying..." and especially not when here you're even here making statements like "No!! The childish thing is..." with the contrasted inference "...because there's nothing childish at all about disconnecting" clear as crystal.
- Isolating this sentence fragment robs its context. Here you've obviously honed in on the agreed upon part while saying nothing of the caveat that follows--and that being the entire point--which is essentially "if you're gonna play at all, then its reasonably expected you play like a big boy." If you want to justify why its okay to NOT play like a big boy, do that I suppose. But there's no pretending this is/was/suddenly became about how fun slugging is. That's not the issue, never was. Just check the thread topic.
- That's a lot to gleam from such little detail. I guess you think this will make me angry, though I'm mostly confused about what you think "mercy" means when I didn't kill anyone else in the match after I was totally "unfun" for daring to down that player, who I guess was absolutely righteous for quitting. I'm sure all the other disconnects I see as a survivor are actually because I wasn't fun. Lets keep laying that groundwork where you acting up = everyone else's fault.
- I think it's fairly simple counting to 60 and I'm no human clock. You're drawing out an absurd scenario in bad faith, based on other bad faith assumptions, and you know that. Or maybe not entirely---do you not play killer ever? Regardless, it all ultimately comes down to this: if you can't accept the gameplay that exists as it does, then the only adult decision is that you shouldn't play. You don't take it into your own hands to disconnect when you get slugged. That is exactly like taking the ball home and boo-hoo-hooing all the way home. Just like we started with. Just like this conversation will end up with. Because that's what it is. You may never agree with that, but the rules of this game certainly gel with that comparison. If you didn't know that slugging was acceptable before, you do now. So, until you can change the rules, please abide by the game that exists in goodfath or make that mature decision not to play.
Nothing you said made sense. You went out of your way to misconstrue every single sentence I typed.
1)I'm stressing a harsh but incredibly apt comparison to DC as childish and petty behavior."
And I actually don't care at all. The underlying problems need to be attacked in order to remedy the problem of DCs. You are failing to even acknowledge the reasons people have for DCing in the first place, which is where you should've started with your first post.
2)"However I wish you many disconnects from Killers who are just being totally fair and I'm sure you will take each one in stride."
I really do. The idea that you could get angry at another person for not having fun is so utterly foreign I can't even begin to relate. Like, I cannot imagine sitting at my computer to play a game and someone else quits and then feeling angry with it. I feel pity if anything but certainly not frustration. It's bizarre to me that something like that would rile you.
3)"You are not debating the merits of slugging. You are not appealing to the devs"
I've already debated that and you never delivered a counterpoint. I pointed out that slugging people just to secure a game you've already won is pointless and boring for the guy you slugged and you're only response to that amounted to "fuggem that's why". You never gave a rationale for this. You just said that people who don't like being slugged shouldn't play- and that's really not fair. Especially given that you are slugging them to bypass the hatch mechanic entirely. Again, you never delivered a reason why that should be okay or allowed. No one did. You need to go back to these points and answer them if you want to move forward in the conversation because you haven't even tried to approach them. I've even told you before that you need to consider these things and you still haven't.
4)"What you're doing here is advocating and justifying people should disconnect cuz they mad"
Nope. Never did. I said I did it and I find it respectful. That's just me personally. You're only rubbing this in because you're hoping I'll get banned contrary to what you said earlier. It's literally the only reason you would make this accusation. It is immature and not productive. The real conversation should be why people are DCing in the first place and how to fix those problems. For some reason you don't want to have a productive conversation about those causal factors. Instead you want to cry about all the people that don't have fun with you and disconnect.
5)"I'm sure all the other disconnects I see as a survivor are actually because I wasn't fun. Lets keep laying that groundwork where you acting up = everyone else's fault."
You mentioned anecdotal evidence before- well this is it. I don't have the same problems you're having. You're not having the same problems I am having. That means we have two different gaming experiences and at some point you have to figure out that it is related to the way we play. Your playstyle will yield different results. If yours are resulting in lots of DCs then it may be your fault. Again, I cannot relate to your issues and there's a reason for that.
6)"I think it's fairly simple counting to 60 and I'm no human clock. You're drawing out an absurd scenario in bad faith"
Now this is amazing! You are telling me that every time you knock someone down, whether you know them or not, you simply count to 60? Every single time? So if multiple people are knocked down you're going to count to 60 for each one simultaneously? And you dare accuse anyone else of bad faith? You're lying through your fingers right now and it couldn't be more obvious. There is no way you're doing that for each survivor in every game. Not only are you blatantly lying about how you play the game but then you're going the extra mile and lying about this being an absurd scenario. Plenty of people have fallen in this scenario. I have it almost every game I'm the second to last survivor. It might be one of the most common scenarios in the game since someone has to be the second to last survivor. There is nothing absurd about this and it's actually extremely common.
" If you didn't know that slugging was acceptable before, you do now. So, until you can change the rules, please abide by the game that exists in goodfath"
This last argument you made is schizophrenic. On one hand, you're saying it is A-okay to slug the third person and leave them stranded and staring blankly at a screen while you secure the fourth kill just to puff up your pride and doing this obviously counters the entire hatch mechanics purpose- but on the other hand you have suggested it's wrong to slug both survivors to secure the hatch? You've already proven you don't care about "good faith" because you're slugging someone and ruining their experience in order to counteract the hatch mechanic altogether.
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@Xpljesus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646186#Comment_1646186
Got a simple one - holding M2 makes you bleed out 2x as fast. Still a 2 min bleedout, can't ruin the game with that as it's so long (just as long as the entire hook duration) - only purpose is to speed up the ######### waiting process when you are being left to bleed out. Could even make it so this only works at 95% recovery.
The problem is, this is an old suggestion I've even made months ago, and they take an extremely long time to actually implement changes. Odds are even if they did somehow read this and go 'hey, that's a healthy idea without a downside to improve qol for players', we wouldn't see it for 3 months minimum, even though the function could easily be set up for the patch in 3 weeks time.
You're right! That would be a quick and easy fix.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646454#Comment_1646454
No. A perk should not have deactivation conditions no matter how much you don't like it. A survivor can legitimately try to hide in a locker and you want their perk disabled. That's a new level of entitlement and this is why the devs should not listen to biased killer mains.
"A survivor can legitimately try to hide in a locker"
This is an excellent point. Locker builds are fun either way.
"That's a new level of entitlement"
I'm not speaking personally. I don't play with a competitive mindset anymore.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646412#Comment_1646412
Alright, then you should be fine with it deactivating when someone else gets hooked, when a survivor touches a gen, or when the survivor fully healed.
And deactivating during locker entry along with those. Yes, that would about cover it.
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For a stealth build it is invaluable. I'd rank it second to urban evasion. It counters Spies from the Shadows, Infectious Fright, Dragon's Grip, Deathbound, Clown's ability, Doctor's ability (and I do hate playing against doctor), and denies crow usage against higher tier players which stealth characters seem to utilize.
I would rank it as more useful than Iron Will.
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Dying Light + Thanatophobia + Overcharge + Pop on Ghostface.
On Myers, just Pop and a basement build to force survivors to come to me.
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You're exactly right. It needs a timer reduction too. And a vault lock-out.
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@Lunairtic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646253#Comment_1646253
How is DS an issue? Stop. Tunneling. Wow you completely countered the perk by simply chasing someone else. So hard.
Couple problems....:
1) The person with DS can body block. Or do gens, and there is nothing a killer can do about it.
2) There is no timer or clock to tell if DS is still up. Cannot tell you how many times I thought I was safe or watched someone who thought the same and sure enough it is still up. 60 seconds is way too long. In one game I was sure I was winning I had three people hooked at once. I had to eat three DS back to back to back because I couldn't remember which one did not have it. It hurts killers who are just really good.
3) If there are multiple costumes it is very difficult to tell who may or may not have it.
DS from one person is not that big of an issue. Two or more rapidly becomes a huge deal. There are already half a dozen other anti-tunneling perks that you can use without crutching on DS.
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@LuffyBlack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1642095#Comment_1642095
I have suggested killer bots. It'll solve the annoying killer shaming for their perks and tactics then it'll solve disconnections. Let them play with a killer that will do whatever they want. Great for training too.
That's a great idea but AI is kind of complicated. I'm not an expert but if BHVR doesn't have experts either then they won't release that. Very cool idea though.
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1)"What you're advocating is, like I'd mentioned above, taking the ball because you're mad and BOO-HOO-HOOING all the way home"
You want me to read your novel after opening up like this? Are you trying to be persuasive? If so, why bother putting this at the forefront? It is frustrating having to be slugged at the end of games. That's not that objectionable.
2)"Do you think if all 4 survivors are getting ready to escape, it's cool for the killer to just disconnect?"
I feel like you're baiting me into something you can report like someone else has already done, but yes I do. To be clear I'm not advocating DC'ing. I can understand the impulse and I've never been angry from a killer DC'ing. If a killer DCs I am cool with it.
3)"When you can't accept the game and conditions as they exist, YOU SIMPLY DO NOT PLAY. That is the only reasonable, rational, and adult thing to do. You flow with the game established (even parts you dislike) instead of childishly abandoning it"
This is actually the childish thing to do. Kicking and pouting whenever someone points out an obvious flaw that occurs regularly is not a reasonable thing to do. Acknowledge that the problem exists instead of ignoring it, or argue a way around it. Obviously you cannot argue or debate how annoying being slugged is just so the 3k can be a 4k. You want people to stare at a screen for the sake of your meager pride. That's not fun. That's not fair. If there is a problem it should be fixed- not ignored as you would have it (for some reason).
4)"The whole idea of a game is a fun/light experience"
Exactly- so why are you ignoring an obvious and consistent problem faced by tens of thousands of players whenever they log on? There obviously needs to be a solution to this. And no, your "suck it up" is not fair for people who put time and money into it. You do not have an answer so you choose to essentially reject any answer there is. There is obviously a problem. You regard that people are DCing but fail to understand or even entertain why anyone would feel that way. Whether you like it or not it's going to keep happening and the longer you fail to realize why people aren't having fun with you the problem is only going escalate.
5)"Yesterday I stopped after hooking everyone twice when the whole match was ruined by yet another entitled child who felt getting downed makes it totes fair to DC"
The hilarious thing about your last paragraph is that you admitted that other people have mercy but you don't and you can't figure out why people don't like playing with you. You are not fun to play with. People don't have to like you. If you know you're playing badly it's not everyone else's fault: it is yours. You need to grow up and take responsibility instead of exploiting no-win scenarios.
6) " That's not sensible as any move, let alone the best idea."
"there's literally no point waiting."
Actually it is, by your logic and others, very prudent to just knock all of the survivors and let them bleed out until the second to last gets killed then pickup the final survivor before an ADR can activate. Not only because DS lasts a long time and I'm not a human clock but also because it means there is a zero percent chance of hatch if you follow that routine every single time. If you pick them up as fast as possible that entails a chance at hatch for one of the slugged people(which is the whole reason you slug the second to last player anyways-you've admitted you do this already). So far, everyone who is hurt by DCs occurring seems to think the idea of two or more people staring at their downed avatars for a few minutes doing literally nothing is supposed to be fair. I'm not sure how these horrible ideas of unfairness were inculcated but it is not healthy for the game or the community.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646186#Comment_1646186
Slugging will eventually kill the survivor, so no it's not taking the game hostage. It's in fact a valuable tool that the killer has at their disposal in order to put pressure on the survivors, it's a pretty necessary mechanic in a lot of circumstances.
DC'ing is quite simply ruining the game and refusing to take part in the game - hence that is the thing that's against our game rules.
"Slugging will eventually kill the survivor"
There's no reason to hook in the end game according to this. Just let them all bleed out and camp hatch while they do. Obviously this is painful for survivors, moreso than a DC, but this seems to be the natural endpoint for the gameplay you'd personally like to see. Not sure why.
"DC'ing is quite simply ruining the game"
Then maybe fix the slug-hatch issue and stop creating no-win slug simulators. I'm not even advocating DC at this point(and I never actually did even once, I just said I've done it before), but refusal to admit a problem is why the DC solution is prevalent, along with a couple others.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646107#Comment_1646107
Slugging the 3rd survivor to find the 4th to prevent a hatch escape - is not taking the game hostage and is not against the game rules in the slightest.
DC'ing is against the game rules, it's Unsportsmanlike Behaviour and is treated as such, please stop advocating for it on our forums as this is completely against the rules of our forum.
Thank you.
"Slugging the 3rd survivor to find the 4th to prevent a hatch escape - is not taking the game hostage and is not against the game rules in the slightest."
So if I slug them and let them bleed out to death every game, that's fair? And what the actual ######### is the point of the hatch if I can just bypass it like that? It's a direct contravention to a game mechanic. This is basically systemic toxicity and probably the main reason why this game has unparalleled rage quitting.
The bottom line is that there needs to be a way to get out of this scenario that is not cheating. Don't just get mad at people for not having a solution to a crappy issue. Help resolve the issue.
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@IamFran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1641496#Comment_1641496
This happen with the doc more frequently for me too, that's because that cowards blendettes playing immersed builds (which are quite popular), with the doc you counter them and they DC crying.
Ironic because I play Claudette with Calm Spirit lol
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646069#Comment_1646069
Again, what you are doing is NO DIFFERENT from creating a Lag Spike to help your friend avoid a hit or get out the gate. That is the context.
No it isn't. It's not nearly the same thing. It's giving the last survivor a chance at the hatch-as was intended by even creating the hatch. Leaving the second to last player slugged not only ruins their experience but bypasses the whole point of the hatch in the first place. It has nothing to do with a "lag spike". You're reaching for straws now because you know it's not fair to leave a person slugged because that makes the hatch useless. It's also incredibly unfun to have to sit there and do nothing while other people are playing the game.
To be clear, you are advocating for holding the game hostage simply because you want 4ks every single time and you're willing to cut out a fundamental part of the game-the hatch- in order to do it.
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@Ecstasy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1642184#Comment_1642184
THEN YOU KEEP WAITING LIKE A BIG BOY
Check your phone! Jerk off! Do something! But don't screw the other players out of whatever they're trying to accomplish for whatever reason.
This literally happened to me yesterday as a survivor, but I ######### waited there even though I just wanted to quit and got nothing out of staying since my own tome challenge was busted now. I waited because the damn game wasn't over and that wouldn't be fair to the killer, despite how godawful boring and campy a Doctor that killer was too.
Hell, sometimes the killer HAS to slug the penultimate girl. Not everyone has finished with the Tomes yet, and there are a lot of killer ones that are honestly a real ######### to get done.
It's not the killers fault that that the hatch exists. Now that hatch shows up despite zero gen progress, so there's even more random chance involved than entirely GitGud enough to ever guarantee Devout. Maybe they'd still have the 10 hooks for that Irr if you DIDN'T disconnect and it wouldn't matter if they went free. It's hard enough when sometimes that 1st hook ends up the final hook sometimes too and the survivors might go for a late save even if you're on the other side of the map. There's just so much ######### that can happen.
For all you know the killer normally would giving the other person the hatch, but they just NEED you to be patient for a few minutes and die with integrity instead of forcing them (and another team) to go through all this again, and again. This, like many things in DBD, tend to be cyclical and it'll only "pay it forward" to the next group. Lets just hope that the next "penultimate girl" is more mature, or yet another group is up to bite the dust.
"It's not the killers fault that that the hatch exists."
And it's not the survivors. 3k is good enough that you don't have to ruin someone else's experience just because you want to get greedy and take a 4th every time. A 3k is generally seen as a win for the killer.
"Hell, sometimes the killer HAS to slug the penultimate girl."
This happens every single time in this scenario. I've never been not slugged as the "penultimate" survivor left.
"For all you know the killer normally would giving the other person the hatch"
I've seen this happen maybe a handful of times. According to your theory though, the best move a killer could make would be to slug the last two, let them bleed out on the ground until one is about to die, then pick the other up right before in order to minimize chance of DS,hatch time, etc. Basically screw survivor gameplay.
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And to be clear, the scenario I've just described could be construed as taking the game hostage.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646013#Comment_1646013
No, again... and it is embarrassing for you that you are unable to understand this. Disconnecting to affect change a game outcome is using an outside the game method. It is called CHEATING. It makes you a dirty, reprehensible cheat. You cheated another Player in the game. There is a reason that there are disconnect penalties. The only reason they are off currently is because hackers keep messing with innocent people, you know... people who AREN'T dirty reprehensible cheats.
There is a way to help your fellow Survivor that is within the game. It is already provided for, i.e. you can get into a chase, you can lead that Killer off, and you can even sacrifice yourself on the hook to take yourself out of the game. Seriously, what is your mental malfunction? This isn't hard. If you use something OUTSIDE the game, to change the outcome of a game, you are cheating. Your intent is to cheat; you admit it. You seem proud of it. There is literally nothing I can say that makes you look worse than you do yourself.
"and it is embarrassing for you that you are unable to understand this. Disconnecting to affect change a game outcome is using an outside the game method. It is called CHEATING"
The only circumstance that I mentioned is one where one person is slugged on the ground and the other person still has a chance at escaping. The game should not be designed where an altruistic action is punished and a person has to sit there on the ground for several minutes while the other two play the game. That is poor design, no way around it. Maybe they should put in a seppuku button for that scenario or something because it is not immersive, it is not fun, and a player should not be punished for not wanting to writhe around on the ground for five minutes because the killer wants a 4k.
"There is a way to help your fellow Survivor that is within the game"
I'm obviously not talking about that scenario. I'm talking about two people left, one slugged on the deck and the killer really wants that last kill so they don't hook. Obviously if there are other options then use them but sometimes there aren't. It is extremely common for me to be slugged at the end game and just sit there doing nothing while my teammate could be going for hatch. It's actually penalizing that teammate because the killer now has an unfair lead on looking for hatch.
" Seriously, what is your mental malfunction? This isn't hard."
No, it isn't. I've already told you the circumstance where this option is desirable due to a gameplay flaw. If you ignored it, it's because you are afraid of admitting there is a mistake with that slug-hatch scenario.
"Your intent is to cheat; you admit it. You seem proud of it."
You couldn't be more wrong. If a person is slugged and not doing anything while their teammate is debilitated then obviously the game design did not account for this. It's a crappy situation that devalues altruism. You're drawing these very personal assumptions where they don't belong. Maybe take a break for the game or something because you seem a little too hurt by all of this.
"There is literally nothing I can say that makes you look worse than you do yourself."
If a survivor feels they have to DC in order to save a teammate or not be staring at a slug for five minutes then that's the game's fault-not anyone else's. Maybe stop slugging the third person because you desperately crave that final kill.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1641548#Comment_1641548
I know you can't see my point; this is because you are a self-involved, cheating Player. You disregard the fact that the Killer is also a Player and your "disconnecting" to give the other Survivor Hatch is taking advantage of something outside the game. In the process, you are denying the Killer Player potential points and advancement toward an Emblem for hooking you, and potentially the other Survivor too. It is a selfish, abusive act. It shows you have the mindset of a cheat. It shows you have no regard for fairness or the Killer's Player.
Again, if you want to show ACTUAL respect, you would take yourself out in a manner that is:
- Within the game, i.e. get hooked and sacrifice yourself out.
- Considers all the Players in the game.
- And respect the community in general.
The fact that you cannot discern or understand the point I'm making is a sad statement about yourself. I will try to hold out hope that you will figure out the basics of ethics and good sportsmanship. I'm just not holding my breath. The sooner you, and your ilk, are relegated to a Que made up of people who disconnect, the better. You can all play and DC on each other all you like.
" It is a selfish, abusive act"
First off, there's no reason not to be selfish. Second of all, as a survivor you're part of a team. If you can help someone get out on your team, that is selfless. Thirdly this has nothing to do with abuse. If you feel abused from video games you should not be buying nor playing them. Grow up.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1641532#Comment_1641532
No, it is not. If you want to be respectful, remember that the other Survivor isn't the only other PLAYER in the game. If you are truly want to be respectful you can go out and enter into a chase with the Killer, get yourself downed and hooked. That would ALSO result in the other Player having a shot at the hatch. Do you see my point?
Your idea of respect ignores an entire Player that you are seeking to cheat.
I don't see your point at all. It's the same difference with the inclusion of a bait, which might backfire.
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Tight patrols are not camping.
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@mee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1622499#Comment_1622499
Wow! That's very detailed ☺️
As a Doc main, I will tell you that I push my terror radius as high as it'll go, and run around to shock everybody. Winning is actually my last priority. It's fun.
So I guess I agree with everything you just listed, and may need to change my style with him
I just played Doctor recently to see what you mean and I get it. He is actually pretty fun to play as, just not against lol
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This isn't an action game lol
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@Hopesfall said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/discussion/comment/1628153#Comment_1628153
Rotten Fields
Ormond
Groaning Storehouse
Midwich
Badham
Haddonfield
Azarov
Fractured Cowshed
Disturbed Ward
All are trash maps where the gens are so spread out, "pressure gens" becomes a joke. Red Forest definitely is not an exception.
None of those maps are bad if you look around a map first thing and take a look at gen placements. Take Ormond for example: It looks spread out evenly but it is not. There are three close to one side of the map and three on the other, with one always in the middle. This means you can four gen if you move quickly and run Pop (and I'll admit, get lucky on chases because chases are hard there). Haddonfield is the other hard case, because of its unusual layout and decent hiding spots. I think you're problem might be people going mid. Most maps are easily bisected. My best advice would be to run more stall perks or just look for the three gen areas. I divide maps like this:
Green Areas: Go to guard area. Usually has 2-4 gens very closely together, patrol this beat regularly and try not to stray too far from it unless you're in a promising chase. Injured survivors are always promising.
Yellow Areas: Go here when all of your Green Area is clear and unworked on, or if you detect movement for sure and you do not think you have been spotted too soon.
Red Areas: Ignore these completely. This guarantees that at least 1-2 gens will fall in this area, and sometimes even 3, but you simply cannot guard every generator everywhere and still chase. Just let them go. It's better not to stress about them at all, even if your friction is minimal in the beginning.
With this sectioning in mind, Pop probably is the go to for any character you play. It'll ensure your green areas stay clear even against decent teams. If you're going up against a SWF with OoO then it's always a gamble, but barring that it's always done me well.
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@Hopesfall said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/discussion/comment/1628047#Comment_1628047
i love being on Mother's Dwelling and having Tinkerer proc 3 times in 10 seconds
the best feeling
i quit using the perk because it was just a morale killer, you see it proc that many times in short time frame.. it's just a defeating feeling. pathetic game design
Red Forest is kind of an exception though. It's just so big that's the one danger with playing it. I play mostly stealth characters that are pretty slow so I know what you mean. Freddy, Billy, and Demo players probably aren't phased.
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@Zozzy said:
Kicking a gen without pop is literally pointless. swf will call over a buddy to finish a 90% gen and you just extended your chase time by potentially 1 minute +
Base gen regression is 1/4 of a solo survivors repair speed.
Even not in SWFs there's often someone that comes running along just to quick repair. I use Overcharge to get some value out of it sometimes. If I don't run something like Overcharge or Dragon's Grip there's really not a point like you said, without Pop.
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For Ghostface: First order of business is to hit someone so Thanatophobia lights off and they take a penalty. Then I try to down them. If they're obsession then they don't get a healing boost and if it's anyone else then they get another debuff based on Dying Light. Those tokens keep accruing unless the obsession is constantly getting in the way or a Decisive Strike changes my obsession. Every hook grants an activation of Pop Goes the Weasel. And finally I run Overcharge, that way I get an alarm and a debuff on the occasional generator and it makes it worthwhile to bump a generator even if I do not have Pop active.
For Myers: Use Iron Grasp and Agitation to get someone to the basement. Agitation is nice with Myers along with Monitor and Abuse because the terror radius is constantly oscillating for chases, pick ups, and tier changes. Makes him wildly unpredictable. Lastly I use Pop. The goal is to let survivors funnel into the basement when that activates and try to hit tier 3 when they come out or catch them downstairs. By having to make a lengthy and careful basement run it acts as a debuff to their victory timer, but it can backfire if they are coordinated.
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Doctor. Only the Doctor.
Why? Because every game is just me and my teammates running around like decapitated chickens because this wad of failure got a buff that gives him the ability to shock us all into madness (simultaneously on small maps) and doesn't even have to use a single tracking perk to do it. Then he gets a way to insta-win any terminal engagement because they gave him the ability to stop survivors from vaulting AND pallet dropping AND gaining more madness. Then my skill checks start wheeling around all over the place and backwards because apparently he didn't have enough abilities before. And if that wasn't enough by the end of the game I'm tier 3 all the time so I can't do crap until I clear madness.
But then it gets worse. Because Doctor's don't need tracking perks-what do they choose? I can think of only one that did not run NOED so you know that's always coming 99.9% of the time. I've met a few that do this really crappy thing and run insidious. Why you might ask? Because the Doctor has yet another ability that creates illusory stills of the Doctor that aren't real, so I go down into the basement to unhook thinking that's a still beside the survivor and of course it is not.
If there's lag the skill check problem is compounded. Honestly, if I were trying to make a bad character, I would have come up with the Doctor. I just DC every time I hear his TR or charge go off in the beginning of the match. I'm not proud of it but I refuse to play with them.
violent disgustu.png -
If I were trying to make a bad character on purpose I would have made Blight.