TransverseCaster
TransverseCaster
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@Dreamnomad said:
I have "new" in quotations because that is relative to the player. But I would consider anything released in the last year or so as new. I'm interested in this topic because it feels like to me that the devs release some pretty half baked perks the last couple of years. And it's sad because a lot of the time there is real potential there but they put in too many unnecessary restrictions or conditions. In any case, for me the most recent perk that I actually use regularly is Inner Strength. It's just a solid well balanced perk.
Inner Strength? I use it too, but only because it's imbalanced. It overrides Thanatophobia, Dying Light, Sloppy Butcher, etc. It heals in 8 seconds. All you have to do is get greedy and bust a totem to have it ready. It works terribly well in conjunction with Head On. I use it but honestly it needs to be nerfed.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1342304#Comment_1342304
I don't think you get what an opportunity cost is.
Every perk in the game has an inherent opportunity cost associated with it, because bringing a perk has the downside of not bringing all of the other perks. Same goes for items.
So in this case by bringing toolboxes it means they were unable to have any flashlights or medkits. The cost between games is unrelated to a balance discussion, the toolbox could be a non-consumable just like the perks are and it wouldn't make a difference.
The point I'm making is that the group spent a lot of opportunity cost towards getting that single instant of power.
By trying to complete that gen so fast they couldn't instead take more power for chases, healing ect. Which they could have done if they instead brought flashlights, keys or medkits.
It's not that they misplayed, they had a toolbox and they used it, duh (well they did misplay but that's because of the grouping part not the toolboxes). But just that in order for toolboxes to be worth anything at all, several of them should indeed get you a big change in gen speeds, otherwise there is no point in bringing toolboxes at all.
All I said was that the the actual cost of bringing tool boxes is not an automatic loss, and you didn't factor in the fact they used their toolboxes to 100% efficiency, nor factor in the opportunity cost of the killer who squandered 1 of his only 4 perks while the survivors used 1 of their 16 slots to counter him. Obv they played to their strengths by not bringing in flashies or kits.
" The cost between games is unrelated to a balance discussion, the toolbox could be a non-consumable just like the perks are and it wouldn't make a difference."
This point had nothing to do in response to opportunity costs. I was just furthering the point that they countered his perk with their add ons.
"By trying to complete that gen so fast they couldn't instead take more power for chases, healing ect. Which they could have done if they instead brought flashlights, keys or medkits."
Again, against most killers their strategy works perfectly because all they have to do is split in different directions and have one guy survive for 20 seconds in order for them to get their bearings. A skilled survivor can make that chase last a few or even several minutes. A very skilled player will get away without even getting hit.
"well they did misplay but that's because of the grouping part not the toolboxes"
Yes. This is what happened. It had nothing to do with toolboxes vs flashlights at that point. They were disorganized. Most SWFs react extremely well to this and already have designated baiters, medics, people to bodyblock, and so on.
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I couldn't imagine Huntress getting on with Freddy. She likes kids and he's not so good with them.
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@Dreamnomad said:
Hex: Third Seal and Hex: Lullaby. Add the following text to both perks "The first time the active hex totem associated with this perk is cleansed if there is a dull totem available it becomes active for for this perk." I would even be okay with all progress toward the hex being lost. Lullaby loses tokens and those blinded by third seal are unblinded unless hit again.
That's an interesting way of ensuring some use out of these perks. I'd be for those changes. It's probably better than what I suggested. Def wouldn't want these effects on other hexes though. It might be OP used with DH.
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@jiguiri said:
so i just recently got to red ranks and was quite happy. But omg this triggered me so bad. Ao i was playing oni on mothers dwelling, nothing much. The game was going good, a few hooks but was still fun cause it was a challenge. But then it got to the endgame. I downed a jake opening the exit gates. I hook him and started to collect blood so i can have blood fury ready just incase, when i was collecring the blood i could not press to collect blood as if my controller wasnt working. Then i got sent back a few steps and i got lag switched, fun. They unhook the jake and i activate blood fury. I go to chase them and my dash stopped and i could not hit anyone. They opened the gage and tbagged being the little shits they are knowing they were using an unfair advantage, i tried to get them and i got sent back alot as if i was running into a tree. What a way to enter red ranks for ######### sake. And for anyone who thinks lag switching isnt a thing on ps4 i can send you the clip no worries
" And for anyone who thinks lag switching isnt a thing on ps4 i can send you the clip no worries"
I wonder how often this is attributable to players. The last day I tried this game I noticed one game with lag but only during chases. I brushed it off because I figured this is when lag would be most likely to occur, but now that I look back on it...
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@gatsby said:
Recently, I've really been enjoying playing Pig. And I've noticed that Survivors have more fun and are nicer to me in general. No one really t-bags me, ######### talks me in endgame chat, or rage quits. People sometimes even boop my snoot :)
Kind of a weird phenomena honestly. I'm still winning games regularly at Rank 1, but the whole experience is just better. Play a Killer that Survivors like. It makes everything better on both sides. People are real toxic when I play Freddy, Spirit, Legion and Ghost Face.
"I'm still winning games regularly at Rank 1"
I almost believed you until you said this. Nice try, survivor main.
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@micheal_myers34 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1342032#Comment_1342032
Yeah i have the same trouble with the oni The shape is one of my favorite killers because of how quiet and sneeky he is
*OoO blocks your path
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@Pheonwings said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1342153#Comment_1342153
Yes and when I started at a rank 20 I had a group of rank 1 swfs clicking their flashlights the only issue I truly see with the game at the moment because I truly understand both sides? Is the ranking system needs to be worked on completely and I dont think cross platform will truly help that. And no even though 99% of the community is toxic I would never say git gud it isnt funny at all to use really.
And yeah keys arent often used I play BOTH SIDES they have nerfed toolboxes, they have nerfed the syringe they have nerfed styptic agent they also nerfed bond to no longer work on gens, there are so many anti gen builds and perks to use.
It is 110% a point to use on how often you see it happen, it isnt a huge raging issue that I see they decided to use them all on one gen, when it would have been smarter to wait and use it on a gen when a friend is being chased. It is asinine to see how much killer mains complain I play on BOTH sides and so many killers complain about BNP and whatnot when they have corrupt intervention or pop goes the weasel to INSTANTLY REGRESS A GENERATOR BY 25% without having to hit a skill check where survivors have to hit 2 great skill checks for BNP to even work. There are so many anti gen builds you can run that have been given to us. Plus we have pyramid head coming out who DESTROYS deliverance and DS because if he curses them cool he doesnt need to pick them up just send them to the spiky box and if they struggle in the spiky box they have to hit skill checks to struggle if they miss it oof theyre dead. Theyre giving people what they want but then a by chance thing that happens in one game sets people off heavily its really depressing honestly when theres so much more important things to fix including just things not looking right? Theres still an issue with hooking people and having them appear where they arent supposed to be like floating and being on the porch instead of the basement so if the survivors didnt see them going to the basement they will risk a save at a wrong place and be hooked.
"I truly see with the game at the moment because I truly understand both sides"
"And yeah keys arent often used I play BOTH SIDES"
"It is asinine to see how much killer mains complain I play on BOTH sides"
You'd have to in order to still want to play the game because this game is dead for killer mains. That's why you mentioned killers complaining. You just admitted you hear this from killers, but not survivors. It's because the game is horribly lopsided. The problem with that Pop Goes the Weasel anecdote is that it is conditional- a killer that gets few hooks or is rushed from the get go doesn't get an opportunity to use it. I've mentioned in other threads that I routinely get paired with SWFs with builds and comms and they usually complete 3 gens by the time I get my first hook. I'm not the only one I know with that problem either. That means stall builds are too slow and aside from an Ebony Mori there's no guaranteed way to stall the game.
" There are so many anti gen builds you can run that have been given to us."
In my testing against elite SWFs I have only three builds that I can make work. The first is a Billy build with Discord+BBQ+Iron Maiden+Ruin. If ruin goes than gens start flying like crazy. If I'm stuck in a chase too long it's like I don't even have it because I don't have pressure across the map. This build is extremely hit or miss. I either get 4ks or I get creamed on and gate teabagged with 0 kills.
The second is basement Trapper using Iron Grasp+Agitation+Insidious or Infectious Fright+NOED. It's completely countered by SWFs that communicate because if they see where I set a trap they just call it out. I end up relying on insidious to camp an area near the basement and distribute damage in the meantime. I routinely get either 2k, 1k, or zero kills with this. It's not really fun for survivors and they curse me out whenever I used it, so I used it whenever I needed to rebuild my self-esteem.
The third build ended up being the most fun but the least effective. It was a Ghostface stall build. It uses Dying Light+Thanatophobia+Pop Goes the Weasel+Overcharge or Sloppy Butcher. Overcharge honestly gets like one surprise blow and after the SWFs realize it they warn all of the others, and since they practice with DS it's no problem being able to overcome it. That's why I switch it for Sloppy, but SB is pretty easily countered by medkits, Inner Strength, or healing with 2 on 1. It's impossible to protect Ruin with Ghostface. This build is completely countered if the team heals and is half way decent at chases. It's only good if I can secure a kill early and hope they don't heal and hope I don't start chasing my obsession so I can keep Dying Light tokens stacking. If any of that goes awry the whole build is useless.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1342138#Comment_1342138
Oh.
The opportunity cost was spent by BRINGING the toolboxes. The gen popping a few seconds faster is the result of paying that cost. They could have used it on seperate gens, it still would have been the same overall cost in terms of the items.
The grouping up was also it's own (smaller) opportunity cost. As was bringing prove thyself.
That clear things up?
1)"The opportunity cost was spent by BRINGING the toolboxes"
Knowing what the result is before hand (like watching a youtube video) sure,but normally the cost is how they are used. If they all survive they keep the boxes, so it's not a loss if they just bring them. The loss is in using or misusing them. So if they use the most efficiently, they increase their chance of escape with no loss. The loss of potential only is incurred if they waste their generator progress, which they did not because they spent all of their boxes on the gen that popped.
2)"The gen popping a few seconds faster is the result of paying that cost."
That's a cost, but there was no better trade off. They made full 100% use of their boxes.
3)"They could have used it on seperate gens, it still would have been the same overall cost in terms of the items."
No, because the potential would have been wasted if one of those gens that had a toolbox working on them was regressed. In hindsight all we can say is that they wasted their boxes because we know they didn't escape, but generally bringing a toolbox incurs no guaranteed loss.
4)"The grouping up was also it's own (smaller) opportunity cost. As was bringing prove thyself."
The most you have implied is that they could have done an alternative. But given that they used the perk and the toolboxes to 100% efficiency despite a perk meant to counter that specific play style we can conclude that gen rushing is still more powerful than most killers can keep pace with and only at the cost of a few thousand blood points per person (assuming they lose, again they lose nothing if they get away). Since Prove Thyself only took one perk slot of the the 16 survivor perk slots, its use with their strategies is proven. It is a high value perk and they can still run DS, BT, Sprint Burst/Dead Hard/Lithe/Balance Landing, Unbreakable, Object of Obsession, etc.
Not only that but you've introduced the concept of scarce use for survivors but not the killer. The opportunity cost of a killer bringing Corrupt Intervention when he only has 4 perk slots vs the survivors 16 slots means he lost far more than they did. They put theirs to use while his was essentially squandered by the survivors putting theirs to use. He was essentially countered by their build.
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My brother had to quit because he would occasionally crash and get nailed with 5 and 15 minute penalties. That's why I stopped playing survivor because he was the last person I personally knew that played the game.
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@Pheonwings said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1341631#Comment_1341631
How many games have gens been done in 17 seconds? How many games have you played where they all played a very rare shroud to get them all together AND then ALSO all of them have toolboxes with BNP? Are you serious? It isnt even that bad, if you think so then I think you need to play killer a hell of a lot more I play on both sides and honestly you don't lose the game at that point, because they just wasted ALL of their toolboxes every single one of them its gone boom. ??? Its clear you only play killer then if thats a complaint for you. It also shows a lot iabout you if you really feel the need to swear that much where they have to block it out. If its REALLY that broken then lets rework mori's too?
Honestly, the game in the video is far more tame than the games I had played in the month before I uninstalled. I'd play an average of 8-12 games a day and of those over half, 6 to all 12, would all be SWFs. Sometimes with flashlights and chaining their effects, or medkits effectively restarting chases the whole game. Then there's invincible perks like BT, DS, ADR, etc along with time burners like Lithe,Sprint Burst, Balanced Landing, Dead hard, etc in conjunction and if I was real lucky there wouldn't be an Object of Obsession calling out all of my movements which is extra punishing because I was a Ghostface main. Even so it's always their best looper and guess what? There's no skill. He/she literally just has to sprint burst as soon as I get close and move from pallet to pallet, which is even easier since the rest of that team can call out where more pallets are. It's not uncommon to have only 1 hook by the time 3 gens get done in this environment.
And before you say "git gud"- I'm not the only one with this problem. I had played since the games release so it's not like I'm new to counter-looping.
"If its REALLY that broken then lets rework mori's too?"
Sure, and make ivory moris a base part of the game. The fact you would complain about this while survivors have keys is kind of odd.
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@OldHunterLight said:
As a Killer main I tell you, even though its your opinion on perks, dance with me + lithe + QnQ is just that damn good it wastes the killer a lot of time if no scratchmarks are visible or no LOS, iron grasp is bad, prove thyself helps for doing the objective not a big boost but it helps, fixated is great but the only thing that sucks about it is that if you are injured it doesn't give you a boost, remember me is meh, sometimes work sometimes doesn't on certain maps, thana needs a buff because the only killer that can use it's full potential is legion, distortion is good but needs a buff as well.
We killer mains just want balanced stuff, not be stressed every single match.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1340886#Comment_1340886
Oh hi, another post you are complaining on perks like bbq, at this point you are just entitled
Exactly. Survivors have all the momentum and killers have all the stress. It's why I uninstalled.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1342056#Comment_1342056
Hold on, what exactly are you objecting to? I said a lot of things.
The bit about lost opportunity. They don't lose anything inherent in popping that one gen. Against most players all that they need to do to recover and carry on is hold off the killer for 20 seconds. There's always the chance of simply escaping. The fact is, by ganking a single generate with their toolboxes they ensured that their toolboxes progression got used. If they had split up and started working on gens then the odds are high that they would have lost opportunity cost due to the killer regressing gens. This means they actually incurred no loss whatsoever. Their toolboxes were 100% efficient in this scenario.
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*Villains*
1) Up the Ante should buff % of luck slightly more.
2) Borrowed Time should have a cooldown of 120 seconds. Honestly I think it should be reworked to give a sprint burst rather than invincibility. It's painful when a survivor is unhooked, Sprint Bursts or Dead Hards away, maybe catch them because they ran into a wall or made some stupid play and they're still rewarded with it and given invincibility on top of the advantage they already had. Gets worse if they have ADR. Giving invincibility also encourages body blocking(offensive gameplay for survivors is wrong).
3) Decisive Strike should be removed. It's offensive gameplay for the side that is supposed to be defensive. "But I need more safety after I get taken off the hook" I hear hordes of screaming survivors say. Wrong. There are other perks for that. There's still dead hard, lithe, balanced landing, or sprint burst that resets on top of defensive perks like borrowed time, breakdown, off the record, etc.
4) Adrenaline(ADR) should not be put on hold if they're hooked. That's just stupid and punishes the killer for something they thought they did right and had no way to prevent, especially with the culture and perks that already exist to mitigate tunneling off hook.
5) Unbreakable recovery time should be capped at 20%, down from 35%. That number we're working with right now is absolutely ridiculous.
6) It's not a perk, but survivors should get extra time to hide in lockers if they're within the killers TR.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1341968#Comment_1341968
All 4 Survivors sacrificing huge portions of their kit in order to complete that 20% of their objective 12 effective seconds faster than normal (or 3 literal second faster).
Do remember that Survivors do their objective the fastest at the beginning with the reverse being the case for the Killer. So while the Killer completing 20% of his objective (which would be about 2-3 downs btw) in the first 20 seconds almost never happens, the Killer completing 20% of his objective in the FINAL 20 seconds happens all the time.
So completing a generator in 17 seconds if balanced because it will be the fastest gen they will ever complete that game by far, and by doing so they have hurt their ability to Survive chases, heal, hide from the Killer ect due to losing out on opportunity cost when they did that, meaning that those other gens will take even longer to complete compared to if they had just played normally to begin with.
Like, after a Killer gets their first hook, the repair speed of the Survivors is practically cut in half for as long as they can maintain momentum.
The REAL issue with this only pops up when the Survivors are spread out. If the first Survivor found is decent in a chase then it's not too hard to stall for 20 seconds (which works out to 60 effective seconds of progress) and then 3 gens pop a few seconds after that first hook and the Killer goes on reddit to complain about it.
But that's saying Survivors getting so much progress so quickly with no particular perks required is a problem. What happened here isn't even close to that and the issue I brought up above wouldn't even really be solved by toolbox nerfs or whatever and could potentially not even be a problem in the first place (due to the snowball thing I brought up), especially when you take into account Killer powers (most of them anyways).
No they don't. All one survivor has to do is last 20 seconds, easily lasting a minute or more in cases of them actually knowing how to idnetify pallets, and the other 3 survivors have already reset. That is standard vs any SWF. The fact that this happened with a corrupt intervention is what is so troubling. It means killer perks designed ad hoc to slow the game for the killer and give them a chance is not working. If he were not using corrupt intervention and the survs not using toolboxes then the result would be the same.
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@TragicSolitude said:
You crossed off Plunderer's? You know how many times I've escaped because Plunderer's helped me pull a key out of a chest?
Meanwhile, Thanatophobia is terrible and the updated Ruin just forces survivors to gen rush. A lot of killer perks only work once or have a huge cooldown.
Stridor is pretty much only used with Spirit. Back when I did the Nurse Adept, even with Stridor I couldn't hear anything over the Nurse's wheezing. On top of that, Stridor confuses killers who don't normally run it because survivors sound closer than they are.
All strong survivor perks work on all survivors. Each different killer has certain perks that synergize well with their powers and other perks that don't. You can't really take a perk that's only used on one out of twenty killers and say it's a good perk. Not to mention, you say Quick and Quiet is a good survivor perk, but you leave out the perks that synergize well with it like Dance With Me, Head On, Lithe, and Lightweight. Stealth survivors use Lucky Break with Iron Will to hide themselves that much better. And the number of survivors I see still run Urban Evasion tells me it's not considered useless.
Survivors don't have to run second chance perks. They run second chance perks because the game was balanced around survivors taking two hits to go down; when that's changed with DS, BT, DH, Adrenaline, that swings things in the survivor's favor, especially when multiple survivors run those. Considering how ridiculously strong those perks are when all things are considered, trying to get survivors away from those by creating stronger perks becomes an obviously bad idea. It's never just about one survivor. There are four survivors, so if their perks are individually as strong as killer perks you might as well just take the killer out of the game entirely.
Excellent post. Couldn't have been said better. Survivors having second chance perks are way too powerful individually but now we have even non-SWF teams fully loaded with these things.
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Take perks or medkit to buff healing, or play with a mate and have them heal you, or use inner strength to bypass heal times. Honestly there's so many options for this. If anything, all forms of healing need a slight nerf.
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@metalklok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1341907#Comment_1341907
lol i had to look up what salient was. i thought you were talking ######### at first.
Lol no I wouldn't bring that behaviour to this board
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*Heroes*
1) Hex:Huntress Lullaby does not appear active until 1 token is accrued.
2) Hex:Devour Hope does not appear active until 1 token is accrued.
3) Cruel Limits blocks vault/windows for 32 meters (up from 24 meters) for up to 30 seconds.
4) Predator holds visual alerts for two additional seconds in addition to allowing scratch marks to spawn closer together. The visual alert cues work for other perks therefore BBQ would now hold for 6 seconds instead of 4s, I'm All ears would hold for up to 8 seconds instead of 6s, etc.
5) Zanshin Tactics could use some kind of boost. Perhaps improving vault speeds 15% or so? Pallet breaking 15% quicker? I'm not sure.
6) Territorial Imperative should have no minimum range gate. I don't know why it does. It still won't be popular after this buff.
7) Hangman's Trick should double the sabo time.
8) Beast of Prey should activate whenever entering a chase to remove red stain, not just waiting for bloodlust. This would make it usable.
9) Hex: The Third Seal does not appear active until it is active on at least 1 target.
10) Blood Echo should take effect when downing a survivor, giving exhaustion and hemorrhage when you are more likely to be switching targets, rather than having to hook someone to activate it.
11) Mad Grit should increase lunge while someone is on your back. This guarantees that body blocking becomes a poor play to make(which survivors should not be incentivized to make in the first place).
12) Tinkerer should give the notification at 80% gen completion instead of 85% gen comp. The reason is because some maps are difficult to traverse like Lery's or just too big like Red Forest. This perk is essentially only for Freddy, Billy, and Demogorgon anyways.
13) Dying Light should incur no additional healing or dehooking bonus for the obsession.
14) Distressing should give a mild haste bonus. 3-5% should be fine. This allows it to be used in addition to Terror Radius perks and makes up for the early warning survivors are getting.
15) Hex:Retribution should be extended to give visibility for 15 seconds.
16) Iron Grasp should be extended from a maximum of 12% to 15% in addition to reducing wiggle struggle.
17) Brutal Strength needs a slight percentage buff. Play testing would decide. I'm not sure what that number looks like.
18) Haunted Grounds should activate one of the unused hexes every 60 seconds (not replacing any unactive hexes used, so an inactive NOED or Devour Hope will not be replaced). The effect is the same, but with more usage than the current HG.
19) Make Your Choice minimum range gate should be reduced to 24 meters. Effect for exposing stays the same.
20) Thanatophobia incurs up to 4% per injured/downed/hooked survivor but doubles for each killed survivor. This makes sense because lore wise it increases the fear of death, doesn't degenerate as you continue to play but improves, and when you get down to one survivor anyways they're not trying to heal or complete gens-they're looking for hatch- so that 24% is a scary number but the last surv isn't trying to pop gens. In duos where two are dead and two are injured they would be looking at 24% uptime and that's fair. Alternatively, rebalance the percentages to reflect that marginal difference it has on healing and the much more potent effect it has on generators.
21) All perks involving obsessions should give you a means to figure out who your obsession is as you're chasing them, not after you squander time chasing the wrong target.
22) Hexes should take slightly longer by default to break.
23) Perks that punish bodyblocking need to be introduced(if not just an outright mechanic). The one slated to release with Pyramid Head is a waste. Bodyblocking is an offensive tactic and should not be used by survivors.
24) Iron Maiden should expose a target for 30 seconds. Possibly more. 15 seconds is nearly useless, particularly if they have a pallet or vault or window or meatshield to bodyblock nearby.
25) A perk needs to be introduced that summons the entity to maim survivors who teabag at exit gates. I would not only reinstall but purchase a DLC for this one item.
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@Quol said:
I've faced those types of trappers, but none tried to have fun. They hook someone in the basement and turn the shack into a fortress.
That is fun for us. Just because its not fun for you highlights the fact that it is a zero sum game.
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@metalklok said:
In no world is 17 seconds balanced for finishing a gen and i can't believe people are defending it. Otz had corrupted on which is supposed to help slow down early game gen progression and they still did it in 17 seconds. Also people saying to apply pressure unironically it was the first 17 seconds as a killer he has to FIND THE SURVIVORS first.
These are all salient points. But that's the thing: survivor mains like winning so they're going to say whatever it takes to keep the gravy train going. Whining survs is why Legion was nerfed into the dirt and now universally ranked among the weakest/least fun killers. Meanwhile devs pretend there aren't dedicated killers and survivors at all (I played killer and only played survivor to boost my self esteem back up after going on droughts after my peeps left the game).
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
In my opinion, one of the most stressful things about killer is that there is only 1 killer and 4 survivors. Add another mode where you can have 2 killers, 6-7 survivors and 10 generators. This would make for some quite interesting plays and would make the game less stressful for killer. Of course some maps might need adjustments, but I think if this mode was added, it can bring back a lot of players.
Don't worry mate. Eventually we will get better games with more modes, more balance, more options, interactive maps, and a game that isn't a bunch of guys trying to fix their V-diesels while a crotchety old man chases them off his lawn.
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@KettleWettle said:
I don't understand why people think using a perk is toxic ? Like people don't understand the definition of toxic.
So I take it you rarely or never play killer or on a SWF. I actually uninstalled the game, and 50% of my frustration has to do with this one perk. I was just visiting the forums to see if they finally started fixing things. See, I played killer because all my friends have left the game. DS is fundamentally an insult to anyone that wants to play killer now and here is why:
SWFs reign supreme. When this game came out over its first two years it had lots of new players. Players that played independently where altruism was seen as a bonus and not necessity. Flash forward to now and even rank 5-20 killers are facing teams stacked with 1-6 ranked survivors with builds and on comms. Comms means they don't have to waste valuable perk slots on things like empathy or bond so it's not uncommon to run across SWFs that are entirely built with Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, maybe one Object of Obsession, and the rest filled out with Unbreakable or Sprint Bursts/Lithe/Balanced Landing. This gives them a frustrating ability to negate stealth killers completely, run from the killer even in a straight line but all they realistically have to do is get to the first pallet in order to instigate a pallet circuit, and then after the killer has done all of the hard work to get a hook- it will undoubtedly be cut short by a speedy BT/DS recovery situation.
By the time the killer gets their first hook usually 1-3 gens have been knocked depending on how disciplined the team is. Almost always 2-3 if it is a SWF. But here's where things begin to suck hard: Body blocking. BT and DS are used to body block for teammates. These are OFFENSIVE tools in the survivors hands. The premise of the game is that the killer is supposed to be offense and survivors defense however, so it's demoralizing when the survivors are literally stabbing the killer and running away. If you've ever wondered, Decisive Strike is based on the first Halloween movie where Laurie Strode stabs Mikey to get him away. It's frustrating when you're already doing mediocre to bad and then the survivor you're chasing just stabs you, jumps off, and resets your entire chase. Worse if they're using any variation of rapid healing because then it is a total reset. It's fundamentally bad in the same way the flashlights are bad- it makes the survivor the hunter, not the hunted. It flips the roles in a game that's supposed to be asymmetric. It gives the survivors a symmetry they shouldn't have. It does more to reduce a horror game to that of party game than any other factor. The fact they have a 60 second invincible timer means they can do essentially whatever they want and it punishes even fair killers because it lasts so long a killer can forget to keep track of the time so the survivors just pops back up right before it fades and punishes them with it, hunting the hunter.
Bonus points for all the teabagging and "git gud" that this one perk inevitably contributes to, because survivors for some reason thinks it takes a tremendous amount of skill to hit the small bar(even though small bar overcharge seems to have no effect in this new environment). The fact is: the game has stagnated while the community has evolved way past it-particularly the ability for SWFs to abuse their assets and bully killers. It's not even a new problem but it's obvious there's a low chance of it ever being fixed. The fact there are already other perks that reduce tunneling (breakout, Off the Record, Borrowed Time, etc etc etc) makes it a wonder that the devs still think having an invincible survivor perk is healthy.
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@Dwinchester said:
The problem is not with strong perks, but how they synergize and how many second chances they offer. Look at killer. Pop and surge don't work together. Spirit fury and enduring are useless without the other. Blocked gens stop regressing. Overcharge doesn't force you to stay at the gen. Forever Freddy and legion were removed.
Dead hard can be reused, but haunted is only good for 60 seconds. Bt has no cool down, but thrilling does. Adrenaline is an exhaustion perk that ignores exhaustion rules.
If these new perks become the meta, it's because they will synergize.
All this proves to me is that killer perks are underpowered, which is absolutely ridiculous given it's a 4 v 1 with no recovery on the killers side.