TimberGoingDown
TimberGoingDown
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- TimberGoingDown
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990706#Comment_3990706
No. Adding time to gens/blocking them is the last thing I'd do. I'd either opt for a scaling difficulty like 2v8 and adjust that where necessary or rework gens and hooks entirely.
But you just said that you shouldnt have to bring perks to counter bad design. Or does that only apply to survivors?
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
Regarding the subject matter.
In the long run, measures to reduce frustration on the Survivor side—which has more players requiring support—might be the right approach.
After all, that's how we've implemented base kit BT, the anti-three-gen system, anti-face camping, and HUD action visualization up until now.Even so, since it's a competitive game with opposing factions, depending on how the match unfolds or the opponent's strategy, one side will inevitably experience frustration or disappointment. If you can't tolerate any of that, you'd be better off playing a different genre of solo games.
Let's get back to the topic at hand. While there may be some buffs for the Killer side in the changes planned for this PTB, I'm concerned that the forced gameplay elements are far too severe.
Even something as basic as crawling becomes impossible when you can't carry survivors waiting under boards with their flip-flops ready. Against hook-breaking teams where everyone brings sabotage tools, your means of countering through blood loss are nearly eliminated.
Fundamentally, it depends on the park's equipment and gameplay flow, but what about slugging when you don't have the time to hook survivors who've been downed once or twice? Even just looking at this one example, I feel there are many overarching disadvantages that can't be fully compensated for by a few killer buffs.
Even previous anti-camping measures and 3gen have stripped away many killers' strategies under the pretext of "survivor frustration." This approach has likely been successful, as it maintained the survivor player base at the cost of sacrificing enthusiasts of specific killers like Cannibal.However, even just reading the patch notes makes it clear that this time the impact on all Killers' gameplay is too significant. As I've stated before, Killer players are a minority faction, but they are human too, freely playing for various purposes (like emblem ratings, BP, 4k kills, or activating specific perks). That diversity was one of DBD's strengths, but if the systemic constraints become too severe, it ruins everything.
Let me say it again. Measures to reduce survivor play frustration are necessary in the long term, but this update is far too sloppy. Beyond hook destruction, flip-flops, and the effectiveness of flashlight and stun grenade attacks increasing far beyond what's needed, all I can see is survivors who've just been hooked getting aggressive with the Killer, demanding, "Hook me and take the penalty, or slug me and let me get up on my own—take your pick!" and targeting themselves. It's still before the PTB launch, so there's time. Please reconsider after gathering feedback post-implementation. Don't further strip away the already diminished diversity in killer gameplay that numerous updates have already reduced.
Actually, it's mathematically more important to keep killer frustration low. Having too few survivors is bad, but having too few killers is worse.
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@UnicornMedal said:
Because slugging has been a problem for too long. The aforementioned perks are generally too niche. On top of that, you shouldn't have to bring perks to cover a flaw in the game design. It's something that's been repeated for years but never actually followed up on until now.
Oh, so you agree that Corrupt Intervention and most gen regression perks should be basekit, then?
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990691#Comment_3990691
Isn't full bleed out like 240 seconds? You'd pull this off maybe twice no?
You're misunderstanding. Once they've been on the ground for 90 seconds, they unlock the ability to pick themselves up INDEFINITELY. It's not 90 seconds, use the Unbreakable, slugged again, 90 more seconds. It's 90 seconds, then you can use the Unbreakable every time you're downed. Once the bar is full, it's full, and that survivor can no longer be slugged.
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@Flopkween said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990688#Comment_3990688
Don't you lose collision as survivor? How are you going to get hit? Can you still get hit without collision?
You lose collision for like 10 seconds.
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@katoptris said:
You do realize this is a ptb which means testing. If it doesn't work then it back to the drawing board.
They are 100% pushing all of this crap to live, regardless if it works or not.
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@shadowdrives said:
Why you keep adding this feature and change nothing about it? There's already multiple anti slugging perks in the game and one of them you can use multiple times in one match.
They actually buffed it. Now you can use Michonne's perk to run off into neverland, wait out the 90 seconds, and then have infinite unbreakable for the rest of the match. And every time you use the basekit infinite unbreakable, you recharge Michonne's perk.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990679#Comment_3990679
Here's a fun fact. No one cares and people rather have fun games than stay in a lobby for ten minutes because there's not enough survivors.
Wait, wait wait. You LITERALLY just said:
"if anything could kill this game it's waiting a long time to actually get into a game."
If there's not enough killers, then MORE people will have to wait LONGER than if there's not enough survivors.
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@Foggyguy said:
Lol nah, it'll probably be what saves the game. Unless you've been living under a rock killer ques are abysmal because fewer and fewer people play survivor and if anything could kill this game it's waiting a long time to actually get into a game.
Here's a fun fact for you… it's better for game health for there to be too many killers than too many survivors.
You need four survivors for each killer player, which means, optimally, there should be a 80-20 ratio. Everyone gets a match, and queues are quick for everyone.
Now, let's say there's too many killers, and it turns into a 75-25 ratio. That means that out of the 100 players, 6 killer players will have to wait for a match, while all 75 survivors and 19 of the killers get a match right away. 6 players will have to wait until more survivors come available.
But what if there's not enough killers, and we have an 85-15 ratio? Well, then 15 survivors will have to wait for a match, while 60 survivors and all the killers get a quick match.
So while being short on survivors isn't the best outcome, being short on killers means more than double the amount of people will have to wait.
And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes. Especially casual players using mid to low tier killers. I know, because I'm one of them. My top 3 killers are Knight, Xeno and Spirit, and only one of those killers will be viable come Tuesday.
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Considering how big of a joke this game turned into, makes sense.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989547#Comment_3989547
Its called compensating but also you can just slug Survivor A then.
No, you can't. Basekit infinite Unbreakable lol.
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@Tenac said:
Interesting list but not sure if I agree fully. The idea that there are only 6 good killers is a huge stretch. I've gotten perfect matches with both hag and doctor recently. It's all about the match and how you use them.
Only S tier killers will really be able to get downs and pressure the map well enough to be able to compete against good teams now that slugging and tunneling are going the way of the dodo.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I play both sides about equally. I know there are a lot of people who play killer who are upset, but let’s see how this plays out first. I’m willing to give it a chance. If playing killer becomes miserable, we will quickly see survivor queues become insanely long like they were before the 6.1 patch. If that happens again, we’ll likely see buffs to killer again like we did with 6.1
I don't need to taste a poop sandwich to know it tastes bad.
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Nah. Let this "I Win Chase" button die
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I know I'm not playing until this bug and the SB bugs are fixed. And the vault bug. F it. F this game.
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I know I'm not. The streetwise and bloodrush exploits needs to be fixed before I even think of touching this game again.
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
They're okay, if not downright underwhelming compared to the PTB.
I've never had any trouble tracking survivors in the fog, while as a survivor, the value of this item is practically non-existent unless you use the visceral add-on.
Can we please stop complaining about every single thing, especially just two days after they've been introduced?
For years, people have been asking for a change in the gameplay for survivors, which is now considered too stagnant, and as soon as a minor change is introduced, everyone overreacts as if they've seen something extraordinary.Let's give people time to adapt and figure out how to play around it.
I think it's time that many here start growing a backbone instead of crying like babies over everything.They were buffed from the PTB lol. The base fog vial is better in every way than it was from the PTB. Only the iridescent addon got nerfed, and even then, that was only by 3% obscurity.
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No thank you. I shouldn't have to bring a sac ward every match to avoid going to GoJ, Eyrie or Ormond every match.
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@Mr_K said:
Nearly all PTB issues make it to live. Even if they pushed it back two weeks nothing would be different because the internal QA never seems to find these bugs.
QA finds them, Behavior just pushes out the patch anyways.
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No. I'm not going back to the old "I wonder if survivors are going to send me to Ormond, The Game, GoJ, or Eyrie this game."
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@TieBreaker said:
I've only seen the devs responding to people who want them nerfed or removed so far. So my guess is that they will either be nerfed so hard that they become mostly useless, or they will just scrap them entirely.
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@SimonVirusIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973033#Comment_3973033
Lol. As if the tunneling and slugging epidemic wasn't bad enough. You act like killers don't already have insane amounts of aura reading to begin with. The number of BS perks that just allow the killer to know a survivors location is just asinine. Like I said before god forbid you actually have you use your brain and search for a survivor rather than the game just telling you where they are or were just moments ago.
Sorry you don't get to have base kit aura reading and survivor has a permanent exposed debuff for every match. Apparently this is the only thing that will make killers happy.
I'm guessing you're a crouch walking Claudette, with how much you rage against aura reading lol.
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Devs are out here butchering C tier killers while handing survivors an "I Win Chase" button. You can't make this up.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973014#Comment_3973014
My point mainly was that it is another overreaction from the community. Because you have to give things a bit of time to settle in the game, currently Fog Vials are very popular because they are new, but once they are in the game for longer, their use will go down, since they are still worse than Medkits and Toolboxes.
And not being aggressive, just stating a fact to be honest. Makes it even funnier that you said that people here are downvoted into Oblivion while you are handing out Downvotes like Candy here.
We've had fog vials before. Everyone HATED them in the Halloween events. They hated them in the PTB. This isn't some "new thing that you need to get used to before we can judge."
Not only that, but if you "let it settle," then it's not going to get fixed for like 6 months. That's how Behavior does things. Anything that doesn't get fixed in the first patch or two lingers around for months or years.
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@kosaba11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973009#Comment_3973009
Well, seeing as it's a tool meant to combat tunneling, allowing the Killer to hear the Survivor defeats that purpose. Maybe a good balancing point would be making it to where the Survivors can't hear the Killer either, but apart from that, allowing the Killer to have an easy way to track the Survivors through it would make the item functionally useless.
Who said it's meant to combat tunneling?
You know, survivors always whine and complain about this power or that perk not having counterplay. Fog Vials have no counterplay. It's an infinite use item that is pretty much always available that just lets you win chases in dead zones for free.
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@SimonVirusIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973023#Comment_3973023
What's the point of a slasher horror game without a little hide and seek. <shrugs>
Adds more depth in my opinion…don't need to nerf anything to do it either and oh look they did just that with the fog vials.
Lol. You don't get to make survivors hard to find and make it easy to lose chases while keep them just as difficult to actually down. Otherwise, the killer just loses.
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@SimonVirusIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973008#Comment_3973008
Still whining I see…<rolls eyes>
God forbid you actually have to search for a survivor rather than relying the game to hand hold you and tell you where to go
Hey, if you want to turn this game back into hide and seek, we can do that. Then again, we'd have to massively nerf looping and tile strength to compensate.
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@R2k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973009#Comment_3973009
You don't need sound so much if you see survivor. Fog only limits your view, but you still can see survivor. Perk like Crows works too. If survivor passes Crow, you see it, if you hit survivor with whatever you have, it also screams… For hides only basic sounds, it doesn't shut the game completely.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973012#Comment_3973012
^ this person has bad takes and gets even Downvotes on killer-sided things here.
Lol. Dude, there's no reason to be so aggressive. People don't like the fog vials. They didn't like them when they were a one time use item, and they don't like them now that they got massively buffed and got infinite uses. Get over it.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972869#Comment_3972869
Whats your point? Do you think you have a big "Gotchya"-moment here? Obviously I get more Downvotes than Upvotes when I say something AGAINST Killers in this Echo Chamber.
The screenshot you posted was about getting more Downvotes on something PRO Killer. If this happens, yes, you made a really bad take. If you get Downvotes on something against Killers, you are just the victim of the Echo Chamber, because for some reason this Forum still believes that Killer is as bad as years ago.
Most people on the forums are pro-survivor. Pretty much any killer sided take gets downvoted into oblivion.
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@R2k said:
As killer, I can confirm it's good as distraction tool, but nothing more than that. I managed to kill every Fog user so far. Yes, it helps, but if player picks Fog… Okay he won himself few more seconds, but on most maps it's not difficult to follow survivor as fog is not that dense and there's are not many options where he could go. Most players are "hold W" survivors afterall or try to outsmart you with double back.
Maybe if activating few fogs same time is bit overtuned, but survivor doesn't see anything too, so it's okayish. It becomes game about who knows map better and moves through fog without hitting a wall.
It shouldn't affect sound at all.
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@SimonVirusIII said:
All I see is a bunch of killer mains whining that their power trip fantasy just got a little more difficult to pull off and survivor mains actually get something fun to interact with during chases that isn't rng environment/map dependent like pallets.
Like get over yourselves….
All I see are a bunch of survivor mains that can't loop whining that people don't like their "EZ Chase Win" button.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972980#Comment_3972980
Don't have that option on Console.
Also gets you hit off on occasion. Depends who you piss off.
Console doesn't have EGC. It doesn't have profiles to leave comments on. And you can turn off messages from randos. If you want to avoid toxicity, you can absolutely avoid it.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972981#Comment_3972981
Neet.
Despite how it sums…a lot… we dont explicitly see how their (rydiafan) comment fits this
Killer A: I don't like toolboxes
Killer B: I don't like medkits
Killer C: I don't like vials
Rydiafan: Killers hate all survivor items!
I, personally, don't mind toolboxes or medkits. I really hate fog vials.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972959#Comment_3972959
Leaving toxic comments on profiles is fine because BHVR allows you to click on them.
You can just… ya know. Turn off comments. Or go anonymous.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/452357/fog-vial-survivor-opinion
Its pretty busted and honestly really annoying to have to play against. It was nerfed and somehow its still not balanced
The base Fog Vial was actually buffed from the PTB. It now makes survivors completely silent and the fog is denser. The only thing that was "nerfed" is the Iridescent addon.
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@rydiafan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972888#Comment_3972888
Killer players complain constantly about medkits and toolboxes, and then when something else is introduced killers complain about it.
Literally nothing will make y'all happy short of basekit No Mither.Goomba fallacy.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972905#Comment_3972905
By that logic, using the chat to be toxic is fine since BHVR allows you to do it.
Not sure I agree with it.
Considering how sensitive the censors are, it hasn't really been much of a problem. Oh no, someone said "ez" in the EGC. Be still my beating heart.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972916#Comment_3972916
Tbf people did actually ask for more cosmetic/loadout slots. It was heavily requested. A lot of people wanted better spectating features since it helps with running tournaments, scrims and what not.
Not something that interests me personally but hey people asked for it and got it.
The likely culprit for all the bugs is probably the engine update. I'm no dev tho so I could be completely off but it was the biggest thing that changed between the (mostly) smooth Fnaf update and now.
I'm sorry, but did you forget that Springtrap launched with an invisibility bug? Every release comes with a bunch of new bugs, and very few old ones getting fixed. They've "equalized" survivor audio a dozen times now, yet Ada is still silent while you can hear Bill from across the map. There's also a bug that they've "fixed" half a dozen times now where the directional audio for killer players just kind of… doesn't work. A survivor can sound like they're right next to your left side, but they're actually ten feet ahead of you on the right. They say they fix things, but half of the time those fixes just… don't work.
And it's not just recently, either. Xenomorph launched with a bug that let her just spam tail attacks over and over with zero cooldown. Every new release since around Knight has just been filled with bugs, and they don't take the time to fix them before putting out yet another chapter that adds in a bunch more bugs.
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Honestly, instead of adding a bunch of "QoL" systems that nobody really asked for, they should have taken this year to address bugs and their spaghetti code. This is the exact wrong time to add a new survivor item that introduces a mountain of bugs.
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Gen kick meta with Overbrine Eruption. Sure, you had to bait Dead Hard, but it was much easier to slow the game down. CoH was a bit of a problem, but it wasn't any worse than the healing meta we have now.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972358#Comment_3972358
Thank you. And even though this sounds harsh, the thing that killed a lot of other asymmetrical games, is when the killer side felt useless because the survivors were allowed to "fight back" too much.
And that is what the fog vials feel like to me. I feel absolutely useless, because there is zero counterplay. I really want to know what the killer is intended to do as counterplay, because it literally feels like "just guess and guess and guess, in an 8-10 yard radius". And if multiple survivors have this item, it might be a giant guessing game, 4 times in the same chase.
It really does feel like a no-win situation with no counterplay for killers. Losing a chase due to a Fog Vial wastes soooo much time. One vial can easily change the outcome of a match.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972887#Comment_3972887
That could be used as an excuse for pretty much everything.
I'm of the opinion that if it's in the game, it's fair game. Making up a bunch of rules as a community never works, because nobody follows them and everybody has a different idea of what those rules should be. If BHVR had a problem with me leaving lobbies, they wouldn't let me do it. If BHVR didn't want me to tunnel, they wouldn't let me do it.
That's why I don't complain when survivors use the tools that they're given, I ask that BHVR make those tools less effective if I don't feel like they're fair.
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Fog Vials are single handedly making me not want to play the game. I can deal with toolboxes and medkits, but getting blinded (and that's what it is. Fog Vials are essentially Blind the Killer in a Bottle) every 30 seconds with no counter play is just absolutely miserable.
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Absolutely miserable. Fog Vials really are the straw that broke the camel's back.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972837#Comment_3972837
You understand that lobby dodging screws up matchmaking, right?
That's Behavior's fault. They've had this horrible "backfill grabs the first available person in queue regardless of MMR" system for years now, and it's always sucked.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972463#Comment_3972463
So what you'd DC whenever you arent having fun?
Wild how you say I take the game too seriously when you are doomposting about an item that lasts 8 seconds and JUST got added less than twelve hours ago.
Sounds like only one of us is taking it seriously.
No, once the match loads in, I'm committed. But I don't see anything wrong with dodging a lobby that has an item that makes my killer power basically worthless.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972466#Comment_3972466
Of course, there would never be a bug on a killer that makes that killer OP. You as a Spirit main would know that.
What? Springtrap was absolutely busted on release, too, with actual invisibility.
I just find it funny that everything gets released buggy af, and all those bugs are positive lol
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972458#Comment_3972458
Easy, the fog vial only covers an area of 10 meters. If you can't hear them you know they're in the smoke, if they leave the smoke then you can hear them.
Except you can't hear them if YOU'RE in the smoke. And it blasts background audio noise into your headphones.
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Of course the new survivor perk is bugged, and of course that bug makes it absolutely OP.