TimberGoingDown
TimberGoingDown
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991718#Comment_3991718
this is true, I did say that. Still, the gulf between average and good is immense. Average players are massivel inefficient, even with comms. Good players arent perfect, but they know how to rotate for the save and read the UI lol.
SWF does not offer gen speed bonuses. I suppose I should've said no perks either, but gen perks arent really meta.
Swf doesn't offer gen speed bonuses. They do offer knowledge on which gens to work. If my teammate gets chased off of a gen that's 90% done, I can leave my 10% gen and go finish his while the killer is chasing him. Can't do that without comms.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991704#Comment_3991704
And killers are always crying about OTR, DS, DH, every exhaustion perk, parties, bully squads, comms, items, gen rushing, syptics, big maps, etc. Everyone complains constantly. It goes both ways and this us vs them stuff is mad tedious for those of us who like both roles. I like doing gens and have no issue with regression but yeah, I've had killers make me lay on the ground for four minutes until I die. I've even had killers AFK with me laying at their feet. There's no equivalent stripping of agency for killers by survivors.
But are you actually arguing that powers should have no charge up and no sound notification and just be free hits? Like of course counterplay needs to exist.
I kinda feel the devs have better data about where the numbers are than random people on the internet. They're reworking Myers. They'll likely rework others to shift things more evenly if it's needed.
No one likes to play a game they're predetermined to lose? That's how survivors have been feeling forever. Just look how people talk about the role on this forum. The general consensus you see here is everyone prepares to lose every match. That's how I feel too, but I don't feel that way as killer.
Something has to give somewhere. Killers either need more power in the 1v4 or more power in the 1v1.
They're not going to buff every killer up into S tier, which is what they'd have to do if this patch goes through.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991709#Comment_3991709
That's so interesting. I might come back and revisit this later, but I've got to sleep so I'll say this.
I would rather play against players with comms than 4 good players.
the true strength of SWF, to me I suppose, has always been pre-selection of teammates. I can guarantee that I won't get a new player or a bad player as a teammate, and that is FAR more valuable than comms.
But you didn't say 4 man swf with bad players. You said 4 man swf with average players. Average players and good players can both do gens at the same speed. Swfs can do gens faster than those with no comms.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991696#Comment_3991696
They are correct.
Which is more frightening to you and why?
A group of 4 Solo Survivors who are individually excellent but they have no communication.
Or
A 4-man SWF with comms, but four average-slightly below average players.
as an aside, good to see you back
4 man swf with comms.
Comms are the single most powerful ability in the game. By itself, it makes every other information perk redundant and obsolete. As long as one survivor has eyes on the killer/totem/whatever, that means that they all have that knowledge. Without comms, a survivor might know that a gen somewhere on the map is mostly done. With comms, they'll know exactly which gen it is and if the killer is still nearby. Survivors with comms don't need to run any information perks, and can instead load up on gen progression, healing, or second chance perks. Survivors with comms can also coordinate on hook saves, slugs, heals, resets, etc. They are more efficient on gens because nobody ever has to waste any time. They all know what each other are doing and can coordinate to always make the optimal play.
Comms hard counter many killer playstyles. The reason I never run anything with Blindness, Undetectable or Oblivious is because these status effects are completely pointless if the survivors have comms. Stealth Killers essentially have no power against survivors with comms. If one survivor finds your totem, they now all know where it is and someone else can easily cleanse it while you are chasing the first survivor. They can also split up to find high value totems. Four survivors splitting up to find a Devour totem is a lot more effective than four individual survivors each individually searching.
I don't play weak killers anymore. I'm confident enough in my Spirit phases that I can win individual 1v1 chases, even against good survivors. Winning the 1v4 against a team that has information on everything and everyone in the match that can easily coordinate on gens/resets/etc while also getting extra perk slots due to not needing any info? That's a lot tougher.
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@cogsturning said:
A lot of killer mains cannot accept that "it's okay to lose" part, yet survivors are expected to just die over and over and be fine with it. I'm totally cool with losing to people who were better than me, regardless of which role im playing. It's impressive and they deserve the win.
Yet as killer, I can often beat better players with just luck, perks, or a small map. As survivor, beating a genuinely better killer is damn near impossible. More often, my team gets wiped out by a killer with worse skills than all of us. But killers seem to feel they deserve kills just for existing.
No, the problem is that Survivors want to have their cake and eat it, too. They don't want the killer to be strong in the individual 1v1 chases, because "it feels bad. What about muh counterplay! Every power needs a 5 second chargeup complete with visual and audio cues that make it easy to dodge!"
They also don't want the killer to be strong in the overall 1v4. Gen regression? "Gens are boring. Having to redo lost gen progress feels bad." "It feels bad to get taken out of the game early!" "It feels bad to get slugged on the ground!" "It feels bad when you get proxy camped!"
The problem is, 90% of the killer roster is too weak in the 1v1 to win in the current DBD meta against decent survivors without slowing down the 1v4 in some way. They literally cannot get downs fast enough in the 1v1 to keep up in the 1v4 macro gameplay. Maps are too strong, survivors have too many second chance perks, and their powers have too much counterplay for experienced survivors to get hit with consistently. So these killers, like Dredge, Legion, Demo, etc, have to make up for their lack of power in the 1v1 by playing well in the 1v4. However, BHVR has systematically gutted every slowdown perk over the past couple of years. Now, they're removing the other two methods killers have to slow the game down.
The mid to low tier killers will be unable to compete with decent survivors if the 9.2.0 patch goes live. They will have to rely on survivors making massive mistakes in order to secure wins. The people playing these killers will either swap to better killers that can compete, swap to survivor, or will leave the game altogether. Nobody likes to play a game that they're predetermined to lose.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991652#Comment_3991652
Playing in a party doesn't make you magically better at the game. They're not all on comms either.
You're joking, right?
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
Im presuming that the answer for many players will be that you simply can't make them work and have to switch to a stronger killer.
The update is super punishing for killers that were already struggling and made them even more underwhelming by forcing unnatural playstyles. U have area killers like trapper or hag that now have to go actively search the map for the survivor they haven't hooked so they get their buffs. Also the survivor that was recently hooked can now just trigger all your traps on purpose and if you kill him survivors get their gen buff cause u "tunneled".
Meanwhile good nurses or blights will absolutely not give a damn if they don't get their 5% haste buff after unhooking multiple people or if the gens don't regress anymore.
Pretty sure this update will make far more killers switch to one of the golden 4, which will then in turn lead to complaints that people only play against nurse, blight, wesker and ghoul.
People will either swap to S tier killers or quit the game. Survivors will be waiting in queue for 10 minutes only to get yet another Ghoul/Nurse/Blight that ignores the anti-tunnel stuff.
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@Destaice said:
The game is designed around and balanced around the fact that survivors cannot communicate with each other.
So I don't think it's fair to criticize survivors for losing when they cannot read minds.
Then they need to nerf survive with friends.
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DBD is a 1v4 game made up of a series of 1v1 chases. If you're going to nuke killers' ability to compete in the 1v4, then you'd need to dramatically buff them in the 1v1. Except… survivors don't want that, either. Every power needs a 10 second wind up complete with visual and audio cues that can be dodged on reaction. Look at how survivors complain about Blight, Nurse and Kaneki. And I don't blame them. It feels bad to take hits when you didn't do anything wrong. But something has to give somewhere. Because as it stands, BHVR has been cutting killers off at the knees in the 1v4 for years. Look at all the regression nerfs. Anti-slug. Anti-tunnel. Mangled nerfs. Anything that slows survivors down at the macro level has been absolutely destroyed.
Do you honestly believe that BHVR is going to buff every killer up into S tier? I don't. Because that's what would need to happen if this patch goes through.
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@DaSonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990760#Comment_3990760
Yeah I doubt the casual killers were going out of their way to tunnel or slug, so instead they can enjoy the bonuses they get from spreading hooks. Nice try though.
Lol. Are you joking? Casual killers are the number one tunnelers. The weekend warriors who don't have 50+ hours a week to put into "gitting gud" at DBD.
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@BanoonooSpanks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990974#Comment_3990974
And it isn't botlike to:
- Hear noise notification
- "Ooh survivor unhook. Mmm, fresh tunnel."
- Walk back to hook
- Chase same survivor and hook
- Repeat
???
No, you have the OPTION to do that. If it is in your best interests. If you feel like it's better to spread pressure, or try to find the guy on death hook, or to go chase a survivor off a necessary gen, you can do that, too. Sometimes, it's better to tunnel. Sometimes it's downright necessary to not get absolutely curb stomped.
The point is, the killer has the autonomy to choose. Now? They either play like a bot and lose, or they try to tunnel and still lose. There are no real options. See survivor, chase survivor. No strategy, no macro gaming.
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@BanoonooSpanks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990791#Comment_3990791
Why not protect gens? What changes in this update affect gen protecting? Unless you mean the punishment for tunneling that you get, they literally give a bonus to gen kicks when you get a unique hook.
Sounds like you forgot that BBQ already exists, and the killers using it don't just suddenly turn into mindless bots, and actually still protect gens.Regression limit. You can't hold a 3 gen. Trying to do so is just delaying the inevitable.
BBQ is only used by high mobility killers because they're the only ones that can profit from the info. Legion can't do jack about the survivor sitting on a gen all the way across the map.
What will make the killers play like bots is the tunneling/slugging changes on top of the regression limit.
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@Firejocuri12 said:
personally this is the worst update in all dbd history
Which is saying something.
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@Birdy335577 said:
Yeah the concept of nerfing slugging is really great, they just completely overshot it.
Giving survivors: base kit unbreakable after a while, a speedboost while crawling, Gen repair speed if you dare too hook everyone once and decide to kill one/the team just letting them die on hook, killer aura+no scratch marks+no blood+no grunts+a speed boost is a freaking HUGE overshot.
Pretty sure they added so much at once because they knew killer mains were going to complain, but they can't complain about everything so some changes no matter how good or bad they are will stay in the game
Me too. I think they threw a whole slew of nerfs onto the pile so they could "listen to feedback" and take some away.
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@UncleMyers37 said:
This is about the myers rework.
All I see is complaining and complaining. Is everyone seriously saying that this is less fun than instantly downing survivors and maybe losing your power over the match? This is SO much more fun, but i understand that the dbd community hates fun lol. Please keep this until the ptb id really love to try it out 💙🤍
I disagree, but to each their own I guess.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990679#Comment_3990679
And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes.
I could, too. Problem is, I can also see that same contingent of killers be the kind to wind up in a spook'n'jukes video.
Well, probably less than 20%, to be fair.
I think most of the people in Spook n Jukes videos are survivors. Maybe I'm wrong. I can't speak for killer toxicity, since I don't play much survivor, but I know that I probably don't go a single game without getting tbagged as a killer.
Also, I'm not a toxic killer, and I'm one of the hypothetical 20-30% dropping the game. I'm a Spirit main, and Fog Vials and her animation bugs pushed me away with TWD update, 2v8 kept me away, and now this patch is making not want to play for a good long while. Thankfully, I'll have Silksong to keep me enertained.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990943#Comment_3990943
The radius was nerfed as well.
See, I tried to save you some time but I guess you needed to type the longer version of 'but they didn't nerf it enough' yourself.
Again, only for the Iri addon. That's like giving medkits a 20% heal speed buff, then saying that they were nerfed because the stip dicks lost 2 seconds of effect.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990822#Comment_3990822
Provably false - they literally nerfed values on Fog Vials from PTB to live. Then killers whined more and they nerfed them again. And then again.
Now they're just blood web trash no one wants and killers still whine about them as if anyone's actually using them anymore.
Let me go ahead and predict your response: 'but they didn't nerf them enouuuuugh!'
Actually, they buffed Fog Vials from PTB to Live. Base obscurity went from like 30% to 40% or something. The Iri addon got nerfed, to 10%, but the total of base + iri from PTB to Live was, iirc, a two percent nerf.
There was no functional difference of PTB to Live with base FV + Iri, and the base FV were much stronger than PTB.
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But it's an important distinction. I don't have to stop them from doing the generators. I don't have to stop them from opening the gates. I just need for three of them to be dead when the credits roll. Slowing down generators is a tool in my arsenal to accomplish that.
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@4thdslip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990913#Comment_3990913
There is nowhere in the dev notes where it says its infinite after being achieved, so I'm not too sure you're correct on this. I do see the implied wording of the 90 seconds being possibly over multiple sluggings, but it may just be a poor wording issue. We'll come back to this discussion on Tuesday.
Ryan already confirmed that this is how it works.
EDIT: Found the post.
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@4thdslip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990706#Comment_3990706
Corrupt shpuld be basekit and still exist as is, because it would be immensely funny to block all but one generator. However, survivors doing the objective or bringing builds to do the objective is not bad design. Slugging isn't even bad design in its use cases, its when it goes outside of those use cases that it gets difficult and must be played around.
Basically, survivors are going to do their objective, and your objective is to prevent that. They can bring perks to speed up the objective (gen rush) or slow you down (chase perks), and you can bring perks to slow their objective down (gen regression) or speed up yours (chase perks). This will never change.
No, my objective isn't to stop survivors from doing their objective. My objective is to kill three or more survivors.
Generators are a resource, not an objective. Regressing generators is to simply slow down the survivor objective so that I have more time to complete my own.
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@4thdslip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990904#Comment_3990904
Well, you asked and I gave you a answer. Expo isn't basekit, Tenacity is going to be made partial basekit. Slugging still exists, and can be repeated on a 90 second timer. Either slug them all again or clean up faster.
It's infinite though. Once you've been downed for 90 seconds, you can pick yourself up for the rest of the match. You don't need to be downed for another 90 seconds.
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@SnakePVP said:
Thats the thing this is a party game. Its important to keep survivors happier since most new players start as a survivor. Which is fine, but my problem with these changes is that they do not address why killers felt the need to tunnel. Only giving us little tokens so we will carry water for the survivors enjoyment and keep everything fair and by their rulebook. While SWF can use every dirty annoying trick in the book to drive killers enjoyment down. I'm sure it will be great when we're forced to watch more and more people t-bag at the door when we play low rank killers and try to make a "fair" experience.
Actually, it's more important to keep killers happy. Having too few survivors is not nearly as bad as having too few killers. Queue times are about to skyrocket for survivors.
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@SnakePVP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990851#Comment_3990851
Yeah I think all these "let's wait for the numbers" guys are going to be a little disappointed as you just know killers are going to get some token buff that will not be enough to reward all these forced play changes.
The problem is, the only way to make this gen kick as powerful as tunneling used to be would be to make it like 40% or something. That's not going to happen. We all know that's not going to happen.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990882#Comment_3990882
I'll also be playing Silksong. This is a great time to step away from DbD.
Right? I was pretty intrigued on what the new killer was going to be, but after seeing these dev notes? I honestly couldn't care less. We all know that whatever it is, it'll probably be in the B tier range, have mediocre-at-best perks, and will get curb stomped by decent teams.
Silksong actually looks like a game that the devs enjoyed making, instead of whatever this is.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990776#Comment_3990776
Lol. "Buffs." Unless it's like 40% regression on kick and a minute of 25% Haste, those "buffs" are useless for most of the cast.
At those numbers it sounds like you want a buff that will just win you the game. Base-Kit Pop Goes the Weasel, BBQ & Chili, and haste on hook aren't meaningless no matter how much you turn your nose up at them. Hell, I usually run Pop & BBQ - now I have 2 free perk slots to fill with whatever the hell I want.
Casual killers aren't going to keep playing if they get punished for playing the game. Whether you think that's "right" or not, it's just the facts. They're already struggling as it is. Haven't you seen all the posts about how killer is feeling "harder" and "less fun?"
I've seen some posters parroting the party line after some content creators and influencers posted their 'killer is hard' complaint videos (usually over gameplay footage of them continuing their win streaks on the very killers they're complaining are weak). This doesn't negate my own personal experience of killer not being that hard where 3K + hatch and 4Ks are the majority of matches.
Plus, haven't you seen all the posts about how tunneling is unfun?
Killer queues have dropped dramatically since the anniversary, and I'm seeing BP bonuses for killers quite often.
I've seen killer queue with a blood point bonus ONE time right after TWD's release and it has since gone back to a permanent BP bonus for survivor and long queues for killer in all but a couple of hours in the middle of the night. Killer queues are miserable - not 2v8 miserable, but still longer than I'm usually willing to wait for.
If this update goes live, the script is going to flip. You'll see large swathes of survivors sitting in queues for a long time, only to get yet another sweat lord Nurse or Blight.
I disagree. I think that's little more than fearmongering designed to protect a tactic that killers have come to overemploy to the detriment of the game.
At those numbers it sounds like you want a buff that will just win you the game. Base-Kit Pop Goes the Weasel, BBQ & Chili, and haste on hook aren't meaningless no matter how much you turn your nose up at them. Hell, I usually run Pop & BBQ - now I have 2 free perk slots to fill with whatever the hell I want.
Lol. How much gen regression do you ACTUALLY think we're going to get? I'm betting on an extra 5%. MAYBE 10%. That's an extra 4-9 seconds. Be still, my beating heart. It's not going to be basekit BBQ, either. It'll likely be more like Pinhead's notifications when he picks up the box. That's immune to Distortion, lockers, etc. It's also a lot less useful than auras, because you basically get a general direction instead of exact location.
I've seen some posters parroting the party line after some content creators and influencers posted their 'killer is hard' complaint videos (usually over gameplay footage of them continuing their win streaks on the very killers they're complaining are weak). This doesn't negate my own personal experience of killer not being that hard where 3K + hatch and 4Ks are the majority of matches.
Plus, haven't you seen all the posts about how tunneling is unfun?
Are you a casual killer? Because I seem to remember saying "casual killers." Odd, that. I'm not talking about no-lifers who haven't seen a blade of grass in months. I'm talking about people with families and jobs that have limited amounts of play time and aren't going to spend it getting repeatedly bagged at the exit gates.
I've seen killer queue with a blood point bonus ONE time right after TWD's release and it has since gone back to a permanent BP bonus for survivor and long queues for killer in all but a couple of hours in the middle of the night. Killer queues are miserable - not 2v8 miserable, but still longer than I'm usually willing to wait for.
Funny. Because I saw it pretty much every time I played after about 8 or 9 pm. And right now, there's 2v8, which always makes killer queues long. Which is why I don't play during 2v8.
I disagree. I think that's little more than fearmongering designed to protect a tactic that killers have come to overemploy to the detriment of the game.
I guess we'll see. Well, you will. I'll be playing Silksong. I have no intention of playing this game again until these changes are either scrapped or killer is MASSIVELY buffed in other ways.
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990841#Comment_3990841
even after everything, tunneling is still optimal lol
Ping pong tunneling is now optimal.
Hook Survivor 1. Get info on Survivor 2 bc they have fewer hook stages.
Hook S2, get info on S1 bc they have the same hook stages.
Hook S1, get info on S2.
Hook S2, get info on S1.
Kill S1 at 5 hooks. Get info on S2. Survivors get gen speed boost.
Kill S2. Get info on S3. Hook S3. Get info on S4. Down S4, win game.
Of course, you'll need an S tier to move across the map and get downs quick enough.
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If you think this gen kick is going to be more than 5-10%, then I have a bridge to sell you.
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@coldflame said:
im just tired of being treated like im an ai opponent both by other players and by devs updating the game
the qol of killers or killer frustrations are never mentioned in patch notes- i get served surveys in game for 'players' that ask many survivor only questions without any sort of acknowledgement that they arent relevant to every player. im called slurs every other game, patches go live like twd with a million survivor favoured bugs that arent killswitched because no survivors have to worry about it.
then there's this update that just globally nerfs killers that's written entirely from survivor pov even in the change explainations lmao. i feel like an idiot for giving money to a game where im apparently just supposed to be a target dummy obstacle to overcome and if i ever win i must have been playing it wrong
The sooner you realize that they want killers to basically play like a mindless bot, the happier you'll be. They don't want you to strategize, or play optimally, or try to win. They want you to just see a survivor, chase them, then chase the next survivor. Repeat a few times so everyone gets a chase or two, and then watch them bag the gates.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990824#Comment_3990824
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990829#Comment_3990829
People are pretending killer queues have been 10 minutes long all the time so they can claim the game is dying because survivors are sad and these changes are needed to save it.
They're going to have a lot of fun with survivor queues if any of these changes go live lol.
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@crogers271 said:
It'll be fine.
I mean BHVR's probably going to flinch and walk back the changes, but if they actually go through it will be fine.
Hard disagree. I don't think BHVR will flinch, and I think it'll turn into a massive clusterfudge that has BHVR frantically trying to give killers compensation buffs that survivors will complain about for years. After all, they're still whining about .2 seconds removed from blade wipes after three years.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990819#Comment_3990819
Maybe you'll find something enjoyable again. I like doing event challenges even if the game sucks, so that's my reason to play usually. Offers lots and lots of breaks and still completes the Rift somehow. Uglier cosmetics in the Rift even saves me 10 bucks every now and then lmao
I don't think so. I like to compete. I don't want to play the "Dancing Monkey with a Weapon that He's Not Allowed to Use Too Often" role that essentially exists to entertain survivors as they bag the exit gates.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990818#Comment_3990818
I feel the same way every time they gut my favorite perks. Aside from those, Survivor is essentially a fashion game (which I also enjoy). That's why I'm hopeful that this patch is a sign that they will start thinking of how to make the game more fun for everyone again. Anti-go next was ROUGH, but this (in my opinion) is a lot more tame than most of their attempts at balancing the game. I don't see why they couldn't continue that trajectory to even out more of the game. Other than you know, history.
Killer hasn't received a basekit buff since… what? 6.1? Sure, they bumped gen kicks up to 5%, but at the same time added gen kick limits. I honestly don't think that Behavior cares too much for killer fun. They've said as much. "If you're not having fun, play survivor. Or go play a different game. Or touch grass lulz."
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990812#Comment_3990812
And if your killer queues have been only two minutes for most of this year your experience has been pretty unique.
Not most of this year, but since the anniversary? Yeah. After the Kaneki and Springtrap hype died down, queue times have been pretty good. I even see BP bonuses for the killer role during prime and night time hours.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990676#Comment_3990676
I'm kind of surprised it works that way but I do think it's the sort of thing we need to see play out in some matches to see how ridiculous it is in reality. I don't know if in an actual match you're going to need to keep the same survivor down on the ground multiple times for longer than their recovery timer that time + 60 seconds overall (since recovery takes 30 seconds and runs concurrent to the pick yourself up timer: 90-30=60)
Also, mechanics are comparatively hard to change but numbers aren't. If 90 seconds seems too short they could easily up it based on PTB data.
Broken survivor stuff doesn't get modified from PTB to live lol.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990799#Comment_3990799
If you're able to, more power to you. I don't make any claims that DBD is a good game. I'm sure a lot of us would be better off if we stopped playing, at least marginally (in my opinion of course).
I dropped the game for over a year a couple of years ago. I haven't felt the need to play in weeks. I hate 2v8, Fog Vials, and my killer is janky af atm. This update is just a nail in the coffin.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990796#Comment_3990796
To be very fair, I said by and large. It's not going to apply to everybody. It's based on my own observations and experiences over time in different games and communities. Asymms will usually die on those two pain points.
I'm very much the same, where I don't actually care if I die in the game. I just want my time to feel valuable. But likewise, my experience is the same as yours. Killer running full slowdown and tunneling out the first Survivor, slugging everyone who tries to help until we Abandon before all 5 gens are done. Still a 40% escape rate overall, but it never really feels like it. However, I tracked my results with 2v8 and roughly 14 out of 18 trials ended in a steamroll primarily due to tunneling so strike that from the record. 😝
Who knows, maybe matchmaking is the biggest culprit of our disconnect.
I know that I haven't even thought of booting up the game since the Walking Dead update added an item that guts my killer and broke her animations. And this update is making that decision more and more set in stone. I bought every character and a ton of skins, most of the rifts… and it's unlikely that BHVR will never see another red cent from me.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990679#Comment_3990679
This breaks down though the more the imbalance becomes. 25-75, sure. 30-70, okay. What about 40-60?
We don't have the actual numbers, but given the queue times people have experienced its looking like a lot more than 25-75.
At a certain point its silly to not look at how to make the survivor experience better.
And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes. Especially casual players using mid to low tier killersIf its currently 25-75, and 20% of killers drop, the queue is fine.
It also doesn't account for people who have been playing survivor because of not wanting to wait that would be more willing to jump into killer.
If you think two minute queue times (while 2v8 isn't active) is indicative of a 40-60 split, then we really have nothing to discuss.
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@emetSdidnothingwrong said:
This kind of drastic change to the game can only be judged once we have the numbers and can actual go in and see how it effects the game. I don't agree with every single thing BHVR is adding (at a glance) into this but I understand the point of it, we just need to see if it's refined enough to be good or bad for the game because it can easily be either or.
Like I've said, I don't need to eat a poop sandwich to know it tastes bad. I can just look at it and smell it from a distance to know it's nasty.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990791#Comment_3990791
At the rate they're adding Killer bots to the game, you're gonna be waitin'.
No, I won't. I'm one of the killer mains dropping the game. I'm calling this the "Go Play Silksong" update. Maybe I'll get into challenge runs or speed runs on a game that doesn't punish me for playing well.
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You joke, but you know I'm right.
I don't mind (that much) if I lose. If I get outplayed by survivors that are looping and juking me, and I'm just getting my butt handed to me… fair enough. I can swallow that loss.
If I lose because the generators went in four minutes despite me quickly winning every chase in a decisive fashion, that's when it feels bad. And that's how a good portion of my games go these days. It doesn't seem to matter how well I play or how quickly I down, the gens still just fly. The only way I've found to slow the game down is getting a survivor out early. Gen regression doesn't really work, since every regression perk has been gutted over the past couple of years. CI is nothing more than a minor inconvenience. "Spreading pressure" doesn't work, because survivors recover from pressure so quickly. Heal times are basically instant and infinite.
So, yeah. I feel like I play really well and absolutely destroy the survivors in chase… yet I'm still getting tbagged at the gates within 5 or 6 minutes of the match starting.
Gens are too fast.
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@UnicornMedal said:
At a certain point, the game drifts closer to PVE. More than anything, this patch seems like it's striving to give more autonomy to Survivor and change the Killer meta, the same way they do all the time. It just hasn't been this big of a basekit one since anti-3 gen (in my opinion).
They want the killers to basically be bots. Strategy? What's that? Just mindlessly chase the first survivor you see, eventually get a hook, and use your BBQ basekit to mindlessly chase the next survivor. Repeat a couple more times, and by then the gens will all be done. Then you get to watch a fun little dance party at the exit gates!
Don't protect gens. Don't generate pressure. Just mindlessly chase survivors until they finish gens.
Honestly… at this point they should just get rid of the killer role entirely and replace it with mildly competent bots so the survivors are never, ever, more than mildly inconvenienced.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990680#Comment_3990680
This eventually becomes an issue in every asymmetrical game like this. By and large, the "Killer" role wants to win and the "Survivor" role wants to have fun. The two mix like oil and water. Anything you do to balance it out causes the former to leave, and anything you do to skew it in their favor causes the latter to leave. I think the only saving grace with DBD is that you have a lot of players invested in the game and a high turnover rate with new content, so you never have to worry so much about losing players.
In short, if everyone on the forum hates these changes and leaves or swaps over to Survivor, there will be a new batch to take their place when the next licensed Killer drops. Same with Survivor.
No, the killer role wants to compete, and the survivor role wants to run around in circles and never get punished for any mistakes.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990679#Comment_3990679
And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes. Especially casual players using mid to low tier killers.
Or, they could try not relying on tunnelling for cheap, easy wins at the expense of someone else's gameplay experience. That's always an option. Heck - now killers are even going to get buffs for not doing that. Give it a try!
Lol. "Buffs." Unless it's like 40% regression on kick and a minute of 25% Haste, those "buffs" are useless for most of the cast.
Casual killers aren't going to keep playing if they get punished for playing the game. Whether you think that's "right" or not, it's just the facts. They're already struggling as it is. Haven't you seen all the posts about how killer is feeling "harder" and "less fun?" Killer queues have dropped dramatically since the anniversary, and I'm seeing BP bonuses for killers quite often. If this update goes live, the script is going to flip. You'll see large swathes of survivors sitting in queues for a long time, only to get yet another sweat lord Nurse or Blight.
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Lol. Me too. It'll be funny to watch survivors whine about 10+ minute queues to play against yet another S tier killer sweating their ass off. Because casual killers aren't going to stick around for this crap.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Getting pop and BBQ for free, base kit, and even on first hook (so, even if you are tunneling) is a pretty big buff for killers.
Lol. I'm sorry, but I don't think that a few seconds of aura reading and an extra 5% gen kick is going to make up for all the nerfs.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990743#Comment_3990743
Look, if it sucks for killers when it goes live, I’ll be right there with you protesting this. We have no idea what this is going to really be like when it goes live. The only way to really know, objectively, is to see what happens to kill rates. If the kill rates go down, we’ll see killer players leave the game in large numbers again like they did before the 6.1 patch.
Lol. I don't need to actually play it to know, "You're not allowed to kill any survivors before six hooks. You're never allowed to hook the same survivor twice. Survivors have basekit, unlimited Unbreakable" is going to suck to play against.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990735#Comment_3990735
And? You asked me what I'd do and I told you.
No, I didn't. I asked if you would consistently apply the same logic as you did for all of these survivor buffs… and the answer is a resounding no.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I play both sides about 50/50 and I’m willing to give it a chance. I’m just tired of the incredibly toxic “us vs them” posts that have started popping up again. Hopefully those will be dealt with. Would be nice to be able to have a civil discussion about the changes.
I don't need to give a poop sandwich a chance to know it tastes like #########.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990727#Comment_3990727
Making perks basekit isn't the only solution. Scaling difficulty would slow them or speed them up depending on performance. There's other adjustments you could make in addition to that. Reworking them has a lot more possibilities as well. I think the idea of having to find items to repair gens with and then "checkpointing" them at intervals of 25% would also be good. Eliminates the issue of repairing more than 5 with regression, while also adding natural slowdowns and the ability to push them back within reason (in my opinion). Also great for teamwork.
Bro. They cant even add 2 survivor skins and half a map without breaking half the game.