TimberGoingDown
TimberGoingDown
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- TimberGoingDown
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@brewingtea said:
Enjoy the queue times
Bro. You're over here touting 2v8 queue times like they're the norm. They're not.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993113#Comment_3993113
Did they? I usually see them used to break up chase or to scatter from a gen. Then again, Shift-W is running to the farthest corner of the map and ratting is hiding in the farthest corner of the map as far as I'm aware. I could be wrong.
I saw that a lot, and they were usually ineffective when used that way. When they really messed me up was when they were used at the start of the chase. Survivors would start pre-running and drop them, leaving me with a 50/50 guess on if they had stayed or not. If they had run off, and I searched the smoke thinking they stayed, they'd be long gone and I'd never catch up.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993121#Comment_3993121
Ok, last post to you since I can rather watch paint dry and spent my time more fruitful than discussing here.
First point - now you want to see a time limit? I always said that the game got better over time and this is a fact. If you want to narrow it down, why not do it to just one patch to prove your point? Not really valuable or anything, but it would bring a foundation to your "argument". So yes, Killers got buffed, from 2016 to 2025 they received Buffs over Buffs over Buff. And before you try to twist my words around again - I never said it is a bad thing, since Survivors were stupid overpowered. My statement was just neutral that Killer got better over time.
I dont think that the Regression Limit killed Surge and Eruption. Funnily enough Surge was the most used Killer Perk I faced the past week and I was seriously thinking it is bugged or something, since I have never seen that many Killers run Surge. But the fact is, I see both Perks being used (and use both myself on some Killers, obviously not together). If you cannot use them both together - who cares? Seriously, you have quite a few options to run and IMO a combination of Surge and Eruption is just bad, since you make all Gens regress with Surge in the area you downed the Survivor and then hinder yourself from applying Eruption on them.
That you say that I am whining about the removal of Gentapping is outrageous and also twisting my words. I never said it is a bad change, it is a good change that it happened, Gentapping was stupid. But Killers clearly won with that one, you almost never reach 8 Regression Limits on a Gen, but you will always have value from the 2,5% extra regression and from Survivors having to repair 5% before the Gen stops regressing. That you water down the removal of Gentapping and make it seem like Killers lost their ability to infinitely kick Gens for only 2,5% of extra regression is also quite an "interesting" way to argue - hiding half of the Buff (and quite a significant buff) does not really strengthen your argument, it is basically lying.
And I would even disagree with the last part - because back then Killer was only stronger than now if you were running that one specific Build - which not everyone did, because some players actually wanted a Challenge. Back then you could have run Eruption/CoB/Overcharge and win with ease, but not everyone wanted to do that. Nowadays Killer is completely fine and very good without having to run one specific overpowered Build, which I would say makes Killer stronger than back then.
Now, as I said, I wont argue with you anymore. I can spend my night better than just keep telling you that you are wrong and getting my words twisted around because you have no argument at all.
Your reading comprehension needs a lot of work. First of all, you said that 2025 was better than 2024, which was better than 2023. That's simply not true. Is 2025 better than 2019? Sure. But I think going back to patches in the 4.xx's is kind of irrelevant to today's game.
Also, I said that you can't use Surge and Eruption together, not that either perk was dead on its own.
I didn't hide anything. I brought up both gen tapping and the extra 2.5%. I just think that both are pretty irrelevant, especially when compared to survivor buffs. I'm sorry, I don't think that making survivors repair a gen for 5 seconds before it stops regressing is equal to the Survivor HUD or removing hook grabs.
And killers absolutely have to run multiple regression perks… which you yourself attested in your OP.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993132#Comment_3993132
"Survivor is the single most mind-numbingly boring and easy gameplay I've ever experienced. Mario Kart is more mechanically demanding."
" I feel like if you've ever played a 3rd person action game, then you should be able to play survivor with your eyes closed. The only thing requiring anything that could be remotely considered "timing" is Dead Hard, "
The implication seems pretty clear here. If you didn't mean it that way, then perhaps you shouldn't have devoted so much time to it.
The things you quoted isn't:
"its so easy and dumb and boring and you're bad if you cant do it"
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993107#Comment_3993107
I think both sides actually have quite a bit of depth to them.
Most players arent great at the game and do struggle with skill checks from time to time. Chases are the highest skill cap, and it shows with how many Killers we have that you need to know specific counter play for.
DH's hypothetical halfsecond is burdened by ping, which makes it extremely difficult to hit consistently, especially for average players.
Basically, simplyfing either role into "its so easy and dumb and boring and you're bad if you cant do it" is disingenuous and inconsiderate of the averageness of the general DBD population
Stop putting words in my mouth. Survivor is a knowledge check. Did you do your homework? If yes, you should do well.
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@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993110#Comment_3993110
Here's a link to prove you wrong. Queue times are a huge problem overall, even if it's not in your area.
You do realize that it's the middle of 2v8, right? And what did I say? Oh yeah, here it is:
And it's not like killer queue times are egregious outside of when 2v8 is active
Oh, and by the way, these queue times are so much lower than they were in the LAST 2v8. During the last 2v8, killer queues were up over 20+ minutes in NORMAL mode, and 40 in 2v8 mode. So even 2v8 queues have dropped by over half in just a few months. Something to think about.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993106#Comment_3993106
There is way more than you list here for Killers. I dont know why you even mention the Mangled Nerfs, when Mangled was buffed in the first place. Same with Hemorrhage, it used to do basically nothing and is now a fairly strong Status effect.
That you mention the Regression Limits, something which almost never happens in regular gameplay and downplay the increase in Kicks and even the removal of Gentapping is crazy. Killers won on this one, clearly.
So yeah, sorry, but Killer only got better over the years and nothing you try will change that, since it is a complete fact. Who plays for a few years and thinks that Killer is now worse than before is doing something seriously wrong.
Mangled was buffed five years ago lol. You're bringing up half a decade old buffs as "evidence that killers get buffs all the time!!!!!!1111!!"
And Regression Limits killed Surge and heavily nerfed Eruption. You can't use the two perks together, since the two perks activating once each is 3 regression events for a grand total of 22%, only 7% more than kicking it 3 times. Regression limits absolutely affect which builds I use on most killers.
And whining about losing the ability to stop regression by touching a gen is really showing your bias. The fact that it was ever a thing was a massive oversight by the devs. "The killer has to spend 3 seconds making it regress, but survivors only have to spend a tenth of a second undoing it." And the increase in kick percentage was literally 2.5%. That's literally 2.25 seconds of extra progress a survivor has to do. I'd rather be able to make it regress infinitely than waste 3 seconds to get an extra 2.25 seconds from a survivor.
Killer was at its strongest during the Overbrine Eruption meta. It is absolutely much weaker than it was 2 years ago lol.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993082#Comment_3993082
I think it'll end up being like 25% - 30%.
Meanwhile, the kick bonus is probably going to be at best 10% lol
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993102#Comment_3993102
I don't think it'll be scrapped. Even if it's shelved, it'll come back again. But the chances of the numbers being far less extreme than people are anticipating—on either side of the argument—are still pretty high. We'd be remiss to ignore what happened most recently with both anti-go next (being a disaster and returning anyway) and Fog Vials (being nerfed due to backlash).
Fog Vials should have never seen the light of day, to be honest. They were a horrible concept that buffed the two most frustrating survivor playstyles: shift w and ratting.
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@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993094#Comment_3993094
That's fair, but they can just make additional changes to weaken those killers or whatever. In case you haven't noticed, we currently have killers to spare. The game needs survivors to "survive" and the devs would be foolish to ignore the more pressing TODAY problem in favor of a hypothetical future one.
Well, TODAY we don't really have any issues with playerbase. We have 20k more players than we did in September of last year. And it's not like killer queue times are egregious outside of when 2v8 is active. Since the anniversary, my killer queues had regularly been under a minute or two. It's almost like once the hype for Springtrap and Kaneki died down, the queues went back to normal. Odd, that.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993095#Comment_3993095
That's not really fair to say if you prefer one side over the other, to be totally honest. Killer is boring to me, but that has no impact on whether it's engaging or takes skill for those who are much more heavily invested in the role than I am.
I think it is fair to say. Survivor is, mechanically, very simple. It's literally just basic camera control and movement with the odd button press here and there. Skill checks are very easy QTE's that move slowly and give a warning before appearing. I feel like if you've ever played a 3rd person action game, then you should be able to play survivor with your eyes closed. The only thing requiring anything that could be remotely considered "timing" is Dead Hard, which has a full half second active window. Considering that most killer attacks have a very telegraphed wind up and activation, hitting DH isn't exactly something I would consider difficult. It's easier than parrying in a lot of ARPGs.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993097#Comment_3993097
Where have you been the last 9 years? Yes, the Killer experience only got better over the years. 2025 was better than 2024. 2024 was better than 2023. And so on.
If you claim something else you are delusional.
Where have I been? In the real world.
In the last couple years alone, survivors have gotten the activity HUD (which has been buffed twice), the removal of hook grabs, gen regression limits, anti-face camp, visual TR, 70 second hook timers, toolbox buffs, mangled nerfs, and now basekit INFINITE Unbreakable and anti-tunnel.
Meanwhile, in that same time period, killers got broken hook respawns, an extra 5% on gen kicks, and survivors can't tap gens anymore. Oh, and a nerf to self healing with medkits (followed by a slew of buffs to survivor healing perks lol). I would say that the survivor spawn logic was a buff, but I'm not quite sure that's the case. It usually means you lose a gen 30 seconds into the match if you're not playing a high mobility killer using Lethal.
I think survivors are doing just fine.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993080#Comment_3993080
The irony here is that these changes are meant to address unbalanced catchup mechanics.
Given the history of patches with BHVR, we can assume it will do too much to address the problem or too little. Given how strong camping/tunneling/slugging is and how pervasive it's become, I feel like it's safe to say that it would take a lot more than this patch to truly do too much. I think more than anything, as is, it will make a noticeable dent. But there's still a chance it will do far too little by the time it goes live.
Lol. They're not going to nerf or scrap it before live. Do you realize how many man hours must have gone into this patch? They had to change dozens of perks, update the UI, add in new status effects, not to mention the systems themselves. This is one of those things that BHVR is absolutely going to be bullheaded about. There is very little chance they listen to the community on this one.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993062#Comment_3993062
This has nothing to do with my post, so why do you quote me? I said that Killers want Survivors to adapt, but dont want to adapt themselves. This has nothing to do with Survivors actually adapting or not.
But yes, Survivors usually adapt, since we are not talking about Perks here (which I have also written, so I wrote two sentences and you misunderstood both..), since Survivors got way more Basekit-Changes over the years and complaints usually go down much quicker compared to Killer Basekit-Changes.
Are… are you saying that killers have gotten more basekit buffs than survivors? Where have you been the last three years lol.
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@CrypticGirl said:
Say all of this after playing Survivor for a few weeks.
Survivor is the single most mind-numbingly boring and easy gameplay I've ever experienced. Mario Kart is more mechanically demanding.
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@brewingtea said:
Yeah, one of the problems with enormous queue times is that the MMR gets broken. There are too few players to get a "good" match, so it settles for a "quick" match and you get what you get.
People complain that tomorrow's patch will make it harder to defeat SWFs. I would argue that, without tomorrow's patch, you will eventually go against NOTHING BUT SWFs, as the player base dies.
You're complaining about the way things are NOW. So… do you want to change that or not???
Well, we could also turn that around. WITH tomorrow's patch, you'll go against nothing but comp Nurses and Blights as the playerbase dies.
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@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991854#Comment_3991854
Lol, I'll just switch to killer.
If you're so one-sided that you can't switch roles when faced with an enormous wait, you deserve what you get, regardless of which side you're on.
But, we'll see if you're right and it EVER applies to survivor. I doubt it will, but I love to be proven wrong.
Go ahead. Queue times will be short.
But, we'll see if you're right and it EVER applies to survivor. I doubt it will, but I love to be proven wrong.
I mean… why do you think we got the 6.1 patch? Because survivor queues were up to like 15+ minutes. It takes a lot to get killer players to stop playing, but they will if the role feels miserable and powerless… kind of like having to ignore the survivor making blatant mistakes in front of you because big daddy BHVR says that you can't hit him anymore.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992925#Comment_3992925
It being able to trigger at any point is not an issue, and Gen rushing is not the issue we are dealing with in this PTB, if its a big enough issue then maybe.
"We shouldn't preemptively address anything affected by the change because it's not explicitly part of the change."
Seriously, bro?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Because Killers always want Survivors to adapt, but dont want to adapt themselves. And I mean actually adapt and not only switch nerfed Slowdown-Perk A for unnerfed Slowdown-Perk B.
Survivors adapt? To what? They've used the same meta perks for like 9 years.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993034#Comment_3993034
I mean, do you usually have a kill at 2 gens done? Because both my killer and survivor matches don't usually have one until 2 or less gens are left. Hookings, yes, but not kills. Someone dead at one or two gens is a really early death and is what they're trying to prevent.
Again, you don't have to have the 6 hook stages. If you bounce back and forth between two survivors and kill one at 5 hooks that way, you don't get the penalty. Like this:
Hook surv 1
Hook surv 2
Hook surv 1
Hook surv 2
Hook surv 1. Dead on 5th hook. No penalty because it wasn't two in a row. Instead of hard tunneling it'll just be stagger tunneling. You just can't target one person immediately and hound them to death.
What are you talking about? The dev notes clearly say that if a survivor dies before the 6th hook, then the rest of the survivors get a gen speed bonus.
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@cogsturning said:
90s is already super long. That's a whole gen worth of time. Raising it any higher makes it pretty much useless.
There's also nothing that stops you from slugging. You can still slug for slowdown. They can just get up, eventually.
I actually think having basekit buffs would be beneficial to new killers. When I played only killer, I didn't even know what tunneling and slugging were. It never occurred to me to do either, also because I didn't (and still dont) watch videos of other people playing. It wasn't until I started trying out survivor and got consistently left on the ground that I got introduced to these pleasant tactics.
They need to update the tutorial to make things clearer though. The game is already difficult for new players. There's a zillion perks to understand. Survivors have to learn 40 different killers, which I guess is why I I started with killer—it was easier. I tried to get my partner to play surv with me but that lasted like 10 matches because there was too much to consider.
The power of slugging is that it takes another survivor off of gens and running across the map to pick them up. This patch doesn't just nerf slugging, it makes it practically useless.
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@Poochkips said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991854#Comment_3991854
They won't be 10 minutes. At best a minute or two. Right now they're currently like what, 10 - 30 seconds? While Killer is still staring at a queue screen for anywhere between 5 - 15 minutes depending. If anything, all the killers who are saying "I'm done" might make the Killer queues finally not stink.
Before the 2v8 event, killer queues were under a minute. They'll probably drop back down after 2v8 ends.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992336#Comment_3992336
You keep threatening that and yet here you are, on these forums.
Skong releases Thursday. I'm just killing time lol
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992340#Comment_3992340
Dodging, you mean?
Dodging what?
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992331#Comment_3992331
Oh, its not meant to please everyone. Just approximately 4/5ths of the userbase. I'm not even saying its not a smart move, just that it would line up with how things are playing out currently. Its not even about "the devs are survivor biased" as much as it is "Directly appeasing survivors restores their reputation with the most people in the shortest amount of time." It would just be a very business focused decision, regardless of how anyone feels about it.
But it's a temporary band-aid. And a poisoned one. Leave it on too long, it'll kill the game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992323#Comment_3992323
It improves the killer's ability to secure kills by clearing obstacles.
You gonna answer the question or keep treasuring your rage?
Lol. Just like making NTH unable to be procced is improving survivor's ability to hide by making it so the perk can't procc.
I can do this all day.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992324#Comment_3992324
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992326#Comment_3992326
Trust me, I don't have a ton of faith in them. But I really highly doubt they'd overlook something like Tenacity, which wasn't mentioned, or Killers like Sadako or Myers. Not that I'm claiming to know what they'll do, but those are very huge oversights for a system they seem to have spent some time working out. It's not like individual perk interactions where it's easy to miss variables because there's damn near a million of them now.
And that's true. All of it's gonna depend on how the PTB plays out.
I don't think, at this point, there's any way that it works out well.
BHVR is breaking some longstanding rules of the asym genre. We'll see how it works out for them. I'm thinking it's going to tank survivor queues, but we'll see. Or, you will. I'll be skonging.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992316#Comment_3992316
They have a notoriously bad track record for overlooking individual interactions when making sweeping changes, let alone ones that affect the core gameplay loop this drastically. Its easy to assume they will do everything right, but its crucial for them to allow themselves to be corrected when they don't. Considering the concern is generally around their lack of foresight, that basically means people are going to form their own conclusions and need to be corrected from them when they experience the changes personally. And unfortunately when people have preconceptions but only experience sweeping changes from one side, they tend to be more willing to ignore the concerns of "the other side" than they are to objectively assess them. We saw this firsthand during the overbrine meta, so many survivor players should remember the justifications they saw at the time.
This update is very likely going to fuel Us vs Them far more than it needed to, both in discourse and personal perceptions themselves.
The game is already getting review bombed on Steam, both for the WD dead update and this snafu
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992246#Comment_3992246
Perks are a variable I assume they left out until the PTB, just because it's a lot of details to work in. Same with Killer powers. I don't see them neglecting all of that in the long run. I agree that being transparent upfront would be better to do on BHVR's part, but I also think the end result would be roughly the same.
I absolutely think they've overlooked a lot of perks and powers because BHVR is, frankly, very bad at their jobs.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992307#Comment_3992307
Why do you think so much stuff gets disabled when the exit gates are powered?
Now answer the question.
Lol. That's not a basekit buff. That's them deactivating an OP perk so they don't have to actually nerf it. Killers lose the ability to use Nowhere to Hide in the Endgame, too. Is that a survivor buff?
Dude's over here acting like DS deactivating in endgame is the same as rewarding players for losing.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992297#Comment_3992297
Would you believe me if I said my playtime is only around 4000 hours
In match or total?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992298#Comment_3992298
They already do.
Answer mine.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991942#Comment_3991942
Killer queues pre 2v8 were borderline instant and killer had the incentive for like 80% of the day and night in NA East. Survivor queues on the other hand were climbing to the point of being nearly two and a half minutes on a friday night. Like the absolute PEAK of gaming time of the week and survivor queues were long. I even queues a couple times and my queue times as solo q were like 1.5-2 minutes.
I believe it. Once they hype for Springtrap died down, queues went back to normal.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992237#Comment_3992237
It's taking away the killer's ability to punish survivor mistakes.
Question: What repair speed bonus would offset a dead survivor?
Question: When do killers get basekit buffs for completed generators?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992282#Comment_3992282
If you look at the post, which is the longest in the forum, I think every clip of me is playing Killer
Oh, I believe you play killer. I never doubted that for a second. I think you're probably very, very good, too. So good that you have become very detached from the actual killer experience for ppl who haven't dumped 20k hours into the game.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992276#Comment_3992276
I'm aware of his focus, we've had multiple discussions over a very long period of time. Many people feel the same about me as you do about him. I've seen how genuine he is with many of his concerns over the years, even when I don't agree with them. His dedication to console players and their performance issues lasted longer than most of the people currently playing have been on the forum. If you were to ignore everything he ever says based on that preconception, you would also be ignoring the issues with performance he has brought to light for years. If you still think he's disingenuous, at least don't clap back about it, as there's no point in doing so. Even discussing this is pretty off topic, so probably best to leave it at that.
Well, yeah. Survivors play console, too. Of course that's something he'd care about.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992245#Comment_3992245
Fog Vials
The great example of how poorly things are handled in this game. The fog items were buggy in events, and they were buggy in the PTB, and then they were released to live. Some of the reasons the fog is too strong have to do with bugs and inconsistencies across maps, but those issues weren't fixed. Instead the Fog Vials were nerfed so hard they're just more clutter on the Bloodweb.
In terms of these proposed changes…
This is the most unintuitive game I've ever played, and they're about to add some of the most unintuitive mechanics possible to the game. How are they going to teach these things to new players? How are killers supposed to understand these new complicated mechanics on top of all the other unintuitive aspects of DbD? I used to advocate for a better tutorial, but I don't see how anything less than a college class could teach new players to understand gen pressure, looping, anti-facecamp, anti-tunnel, anti-slug, perks, powers, items, and add-ons. And I don't mean getting good at those things, I just mean understanding the basics.
They're not. BHVR doesn't care about new killer players. Look at the perks available for free without grinding for Survivor, then look at the free perks for killer. Survivors get half the meta for free. Killers, iirc, don't have a single meta perk that is free. You have to either grind for an insane amount of time to unlock someone like Artist, or you have to spend money. Meanwhile, Survivors are getting Sprint Burst, Botany, Self Care, Lithe, Dead Hard and Unbreakable, just off the top of my head.
You could play survivor and have a meta build in a day or two without ever spending a cent. You'd have to grind for months to do the same with killers.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992270#Comment_3992270
You certainly can, but that doesn't mean you won't miss out on a perspective that would give context to your own. I swear I reference art of war on this forum too much, but knowing your opponent objectively makes you better as a competitor in any context. This used to be pretty understood when disagreeing vs arguing.
I do understand my "opponent." He's a self proclaimed killer main that has never, not once, sided with killers in literally any balance changes that I have seen during my time here. He has literally taken the survivor side every single time I've seen him post.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992256#Comment_3992256
Look at the current series of votes between our posts in the discussion. Presuming you'll disagree with someone based on the username above the post is just as bad as outright ignoring whatever side you play less. As long as both sides are genuine, you should generally learn more from people who you routinely disagree with than those who constantly mirror your own sentiments. There's no reason for hyperbolie, even when you don't generally agree with a person. Just take their perspective into consideration if they're genuine, and disregard it specifically if they're not.
Well, I can safely ignore someone's opinion when they have repeatedly shown that their opinion will always favor one side.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991554#Comment_3991554
lol that goes out the window with current gen speeds it just dumpsters the bottom half of the killer roster and just makes the average survivor gods gift to dbd (which they shouldn't) and killers are going to quit
Exactly this. Except it won't just dumpster the bottom half, it'll dumpster the bottom 30 killers.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992236#Comment_3992236
nurse is a completely different entity(no pun intended)
This is why balancing has to be done without nurse in mind cause of course the one killer who can ignore all gameplay mechanics is going to still be strong
Then this balance patch is even worse. If you just don't consider the S tiers into the discussion, then this patch is even more punishing of mid tier killers just playing the game normally.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992232#Comment_3992232
I think these changes are necessary, and have the potential to be exceeding good for the game.
I am awaiting the PTB, however, for final judgments. There's just so much we don't know that affects what I think.
No offense, but they could give every survivor a gun that insta-kills the killer, and you'd still probably defend it.
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@BbQz said:
I mean. If I need to just deal with a angry nurse player every now and again then so be it? It's like saying laws shouldn't exist since we still have criminals. It will stop the issue for most people and that's good enough for now. It will almost make killer buffs way easier to accept if it means people get to play a mostly full match. Getting kicked out after 3 mins of play to then have a crazy snow ball sucks.
Except that's not what will happen. Do you think that the Dredge player is still going to play the game after this? Seriously? Any mid tier killer is now required to play flawlessly because they've removed literally every comeback mechanic that killers have. If you lose 2-3 gens in the first chase, what are you supposed to do? You can't tunnel anyone out. You can't slug for pressure. You can't hold a 3 gen and play for time, hoping survivors make a mistake. You can't snowball.
If you have one bad chase, you just lose the game. If you lose more than one gen in the first chase, there's really no point in still playing the game. Dredge can't physically generate enough pressure just by downing survivors because he doesn't get downs fast enough. So if you have a bad first chase, just "Go Next" by walking over to the nearest exit gate and spamming your power or tabbing out and watching Youtube videos.
Or just not play, which is what a lot of casual mid tier killers will do.
Or just become the tunneling Nurse, which is what the majority of the remaining casual mid tier killers will do.
In reality, if this patch hits live, you're going to see 10 minute survivor queues by Halloween, and the game will be Dead by New Year.
And if you think I'm exaggerating, almost every other asym horror game has died because the devs made the killer role feel weak and powerless by overbuffing the survivor role, so killers quit, survivor queue times skyrocketed, and the game died in a matter of weeks or months. DBD has, so far, managed to escape this fate, but I don't think you realize how close BHVR is dancing to that knife's edge.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992237#Comment_3992237
Yup. And god forbid you use slugging to stop them without killing them, because now they get infinite self-pick-up after 90 seconds. So that flashlight user you're trying to stop from preventing hooking others without killing said flashlight user gets rewarded for you playing by the game's rules.
This. Is. Borked.
Yep. But it'll definitely hit live pretty much unchanged. Just like Clown, just like Fog Vials. (They actually buffed FV from PTB to release lol) They've been hyping up this anti-tunnel stuff for a year now, and it's something survivors have been whining about forever. There's no way they neuter it or delay it. The only way we'll see any changes is if it causes enough killers to not play the game that it affects survivor queues and BHVR's bottom line.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992230#Comment_3992230
They got what they wanted.
I play more survivor than killer these days, and I didn't want any of this. How do I opt out of this nonsense I didn't ask for and don't want in my matches? My teammates all go down in five seconds and die at 4 gens left, I'm used to it and it really is their fault for relying on sandbagging teammates and never bothering to actually get better at the game. We're getting to the point BHVR should just make killers NPCs if they want to take away the killer's ability to punish their opponents' mistakes.
Which is exactly what this is. It's taking away the killer's ability to punish survivor mistakes. It's handholding at it's finest. It's saying, "Yeah, the Sable keeps trying to make the same dumb Head On play over and over, but you're not allowed to punish her for it." "Yeah, that Feng missed her flashlight save… AGAIN… but you're not allowed to punish her for it." "Yeah, Renato just keeps going back to the same gen area while he sucks at chase, but you're not allowed to punish him for it." "Yeah, they unhooked in your face, but you're not allowed to punish them for it."
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
This might be controversial but I’m the only one who’s very hyped for this update and I’ll explain why
For 9 years the biggest problem in dbd was not actually addressing the issue of tunneling and slugging directly. It was always band aid fixes. Don’t want to get tunneled? Run DS, OTR, BT. Don’t want to get slugged run unbreakable. It was just band aid perks to solve the problem it never actually solved it. I know BT was eventually base but the problem still persisted.
But with this update, I understand it looks not so good but if it works with some changes it could finally fix these problems without just having to use perks
imagine a world where I can finally play a game without having to run OTR, DS, UB, I can finally free up perk slots cause the issue is solved
that doesn’t mean I’m saying it’s perfect the system needs adjustments but it could bring the game in a much better directionThe funny thing is, the tunneling that you're all whining about? It'll still happen. Do you think that some sweat lord Nurse gives a crap about you gaining 20% gen repair speed when she tunnels someone out at 5 gens? She's not kicking gens anyways.
No, this only punishes mid tier killers that try to get a survivor out in the mid to late game. The Dredge who double hooks a survivor because he's down to one gen and he desperately needs someone out of the trial. That's who's going to get hit with these nerfs. Not the tunneling Nurse who 3 hooks the same survivor at 5 gens.
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@Birken13 said:
I don’t see the point of slapping Elusive onto every Survivor stealth perk. Elusive works best as an anti-tunnel mechanic, not something tacked onto everything. Giving every stealth perk Elusive would just feel lazy and redundant, and there is a reason these perks were not designed to stack every hiding status effect in the first place.
That said, I could definitely see some of those perks getting buffs, maybe even picking up another status effect to make them more viable. But Elusive does not feel like it naturally belongs on any of them.
They want survivors to have their own version of "Undetectable" that makes the game "more intuitive." In reality, it's just a massive survivor buff that we can lump onto all the others they get every patch.
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@CLHL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992148#Comment_3992148
I don't remember the killers doing stupid things such as abandoning the match because someone used a Fog Vial. Anyway, are you really comparing removing infinite uses from an item (that were never justified) to rendering a large part of the killer roster unusable?
I know you claim to be a killer main based on your comments, but I don't remember seen you give in to their concerns a single time, quite the opposite.
Same. I don't think I've ever seen Pulsar take the killer side on literally anything, ever.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992078#Comment_3992078
That wasn't your argument - how about we compare oranges to oranges.
If you're playing a Dredge and tunnel someone out a 5 gens then that's 5 gens of faster repair speed that you can't regress.
If you're playing a Dredge and tunnel someone out at 2 gens then that's 2 gens of faster repair speed that you can't regress.
5 gens going n% faster is more impactful than 2 gens going n% faster in a match.
Oh wow. Are you okay?
Let me break it down for you, math style.
If you tunnel someone out at 5 gens, that's 450 seconds of gen repairs that survivors will have to do while in a 3v1.
If you tunnel someone out at 2 gens, that's 180 seconds of gen repairs that survivors will have to do while in a 3v1.
Sure, you could technically get the bonus for LONGER, but by the time you finish FIVE gens in a 3v1… let's just say it's no longer a 3v1. Now it's a 1v1. Or a 2v1 if you're lucky and someone was cracked in chase. Or a 0v1 because you didn't even get all the gens done. Either way, the killer is almost certainly going to win the game. Remember, the killer wins the game if they get a second survivor out and down a third. Or they can try to slug their way to a snowball victory if the survivors are injured.
But finishing TWO gens before the killer gets someone else out or snowballs his way to a win? That's doable. You might lose a guy, but you can probably get all three survivors out. Play it safe, pre-run early, and split up on gens. Make him commit to a chase, hope that he picks your best looper, and slam the remaining two gens. If he gets the chased survivor on hook, that's fine. Open the gates and body block train your way to the W, or tie if you're unlucky.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992080#Comment_3992080
Are you suggesting every killer except cracked blights going against baby survivors need to tunnel to win? That's pretty ridiculous.
Lol. You keep trying to use this "gotcha," no matter how many times I clearly explain it to you. Maybe I should use smaller words?
Against good survivors, mid killers need help. Perks no help. Perks go boom! Daddy Behavior make perks baaaaad. But game too fast. Mid killers not get downs fast. Mid killers get survivor out of game when gens go pop! Mid killer now get in trouble when they do that, which makes mid killers sad. Now mid killers no want to play no more. Mid killers still beat bad survivors. But lose when survivors no play like potatoes.
Did that help, or should I start drawing pictures?