TimberGoingDown
TimberGoingDown
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950981#Comment_3950981
I can't. I've seen countless toxic killers since I first started playing DBD, and countless toxic survivors too. This toxicity doesn't have a side.
Then your experience is much different than mine. Then again, I'm not lumping in "camping or tunneling" into "toxic."
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I'm sorry, were you expecting BHVR to release anything that wasn't a complete buggy mess?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950961#Comment_3950961
bro clearly did not play CoD.
Do not quote the ancient magic to me. I was there when it was written.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950961#Comment_3950961
Killers do the exact same thing, you know.
DBD's toxicity isn't exclusive. You just happen to see more toxic survivors than killers because every DBD match has 4 survivors and 1 killer. If the game was 4v4, you'd see both in equal measure.
I can honestly count on one hand the number of times I've seen BM from killers. Two hands, if we're being generous. Out of hundreds of survivor matches. Survivor BM is literally every game. Win or lose. Survivors are far more toxic, and it's not even close.
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@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950956#Comment_3950956
I've been flamed in end game chat by my solo q survivor teammates. I can't imagine how bad it would be if they could talk during the game lol
I've been gaming a long time. I've never seen a collective group of gamers be as crappy as DBD survivors. They're sore losers, sore winners, nothing is ever their fault, and it's always "bad teammates" or "bad game design" or "bad killer doing bad things."
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@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950417#Comment_3950417
The dbd community is too awful for built in voice communication
I mean… yeah. Survivors are physically incapable of winning without being total wankers about it. Imagine if you gave them voice comms.
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@zLoqzx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950568#Comment_3950568
but they added the option to dc when you get to dying state, its just a feature that should be added as soon your basically dead (bc survivoirs are cry babies) its a good idea
That was a QoL feature to keep from getting bled out. If you're 10 seconds away from being dead, you don't need it.
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They're going to leave sabos uncounterable and nerf slugging.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950350#Comment_3950350
It's such a funny coincidence that whenever I point out that the strategy you want killers to employ every game doesn't work against good teams, you either don't address it or bring up something else.
Or, you interpret "good teams" as "comp teams" and go "those only make up .000000001% of the matches you play so who cares"They just want a 4 man to be a guaranteed win, because that's what they use. It's why they hate literally every strategy you can use to win the game against strong squads.
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Wow. So you want to make him an S+ tier killer. Interesting.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950221#Comment_3950221
I don't really get where your survivor antagonism comes from
You realise both sides have it hard in the game sometimes yeah? Killers get 4 man outed and bmed in the endgame chat, Survivors get sent from 1st to 3rd stage before they've even had a chance to touch a generator.
And I'm not even really for full on 'anti-tunnel' changes if they are too extreme because i think "tunnelling" in a certain form is necessary sometimes. It should be a tactic, not a full on playstyle.
And I'm not ok with hard tunneling. But if we're getting to hook 5 or 6, you weren't hard tunneled. No matter the hook order. You had a chance to play the game.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950200#Comment_3950200
No, it's the opposite extreme.
When you're targeted post-unhook, you aren't even starting the chase neutrally. You're starting the chase with a huge advantage given to the killer, because you're right on top of them and already injured. That's why the post-unhook Endurance exists, too, so you at least get to have that chase even if it's extremely stacked in the killer's favour; before, you were just downed, no chase required.
Now, the killer getting a chase like that isn't inherently broken if they did something to engineer it, like successfully sneaking up on someone. In this case, though, all the killer did was… be near the hook when the unhook happened. For some killers they don't even have to be that close, with the right kind of mobility.
Even when the killer sneaks up on you as survivor, you often have agency of some kind- hell, you could've seen or heard the killer coming, so at least when you're just smacked out of nowhere it could fairly be considered your mistake. Here, the killer chose to target you when you were animation locked and had no way to avoid it, and gets an easy chase for free. There's no trick you can pull to undo the advantage, you just have to outplay them to a disproportionate degree, in general, for no cost or expectation on their end.
Ok. So if we're going to eliminate "killer advantage in chase," then we should eliminate survivor advantage in chase as well, right? No more God pallets, no more exhaustion perks, every tile is a 50/50. That's fair, right?
Sometimes in life, you play at a disadvantage. Adapt and overcome. Or don't, and Behavior will come hold your wittle hand.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950175#Comment_3950175
Complaints about not getting to play the game are hyperbole and shouldn't be taken 100% literally in my opinion, but even outside of that, the reason that complaint is made is because of how little agency you have while being tunnelled, not because you're the first person to die/you died too early.
When the killer chooses to target you off-hook in this hypothetical, you still don't have that much agency. Outside of perks, your ability to fight back is extremely limited, which means those perks become must-runs or you risk getting your agency taken away in any given match. It's not great for the game.
It's a good example here of why generally speaking it's a good idea to decouple discussions of game problems from the specific way those problems are commonly complained about, imo. Better to focus on the problem than the complaint.
So it's literally, "I didn't have a chance to start chase fully healed at a strong loop."
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@coco_shotz said:
Springtrap doesn't seem like a very overpowered killer in terms of his kit, but he seems to be erasing survivors left and right with relative ease. His hatchets are annoying but not overly powerful, his tp is annoying when he has his add-on (paired with the hex: blood favor) and his random stealth is so inconsistent that half the time you can see him coming.
So what it is that is making this killer get 3-4k every game with 3-5 gens remaining? Am I so out of touch that I can't tell what's op at this point? Are survivors just not playing correctly rn? What do you guys have to say about it?
Silent teleports right on top of survivors giving him free hits before they can react.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950175#Comment_3950175
Outing myself as a Killer main with the ability to understand the game, perhaps.
Nice rebuttal. Really well thought out.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950167#Comment_3950167
Hooked three times consecutively without a break isn't tunneling, you heard it here first.
Call it whatever you want, it doesn't matter. Survivor Two in your scenario had a chance to "play the game." Isn't that the complaint about tunneling? "It feels bad to load into a match and just get hooked and never have a chance to play the game!" That's the only argument against it.
Survivor Two got some gens in, got some heals in, and got to play the game. Apparently, that's not good enough. So what's the time limit? How long must a survivor be unhooked for in order to be "fair game" again? Five minutes? At least one gen? What's the arbitrary number?
No, what you're really complaining about is that your chases came when you were in a weakened position instead of a ten second head start into God pallets and main building into about 30 seconds of shift+W. You're outing yourself.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950152#Comment_3950152
IF you die on hook 6, you can definitely still be tunneled.
Survivor One: Hook 1, 2 and 3.
Survivor Two: Hook 4, 5 and 6.
or
Survivor One: Hooks 1, 2 and 4
Survivor Two: Hooks 5, 6 and 7.
Survivor Three: 3, 8 and 9.
Just say the line already.
"IF you die on hook 6, you can definitely still be tunneled.
Survivor One: Hook 1, 2 and 3.
Survivor Two: Hook 4, 5 and 6."
Survivor two wasn't tunneled.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950134#Comment_3950134
Hard tunnelling meaning that as soon as someone gets unhooked they drop everything and go back to the unhooked survivor. Tunnelling at 5 gens only requires having enough pressure to maintain 5 gens and then still deciding to tunnel someone out rather than just going for someone they havent hooked yet.
And its not that hard for certain killers to have enough pressure to keep 5 gens. Corrupt Intervention on Kaneki, while having pain res, grim and dms can be enough to keep 5 gens on a map like Haddonfield.Here's how I look at it. If you die at hook 3, you were tunneled. Hook 4, yeah still probably tunneled. If you die at hook 5, you weren't tunneled. Hook 6 and beyond, definitely not tunneled. You had a chance to play the game and get some gen work and heals in. I don't care if you just got off hook, or whatever. Tunneling doesn't mean "killed me earlier than I would have liked."
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950038#Comment_3950038
Okay, give me 1 tool thats basekit, consistent against all killers and that works even if the killer brought perks that slow down gens quite significantly without needing to be there (DMS, Deadlock, Pain Res, Surge, Grim)
Just 1. You claim they have enough tools, I am just asking for 1 basekit tool.
Killers have plenty of basekit tools to slow down gens and speed up chases. Hook survivors in an area you want to deadzone. Down survivors while picking up another chase to go from 3 people on gens to at most 2 people on gens. Tunnel survivors if a kill is absolutely needed.
Also, tunnelling literally happens at 5 gens in 60% of my games. It REALLY is as prevalent as people make it out to be. If it wasnt prevalent, people wouldnt be so loud.
On top of that, even if it WERENT prevalent, a solution is still needed.
And if you think 3% haste and vaulting speed increase is too much to deal with, hook someone else first. Then you can focus both out. If you really think that math is bad, then you rely too much on tunnelling in the first place. It's been generally agreed that the most optimal path for killers should be surv 1, surv 2, surv 1, surv 2 or 3, surv 1.
Based on average generator progression, that would mean you're dealing AT MOST, with 3 gens remaining. Which is roughly the same point where you start needing a kill. If more gens are gone, you're only dealing with 1 or 2%. Both are basically non-existant to vaults, and the value for haste is far too low for that.
If you cant manage to get a kill on someone who is only 2% faster - skill issue
But what about those games where you simply cant get any hooks? - skill issue
What about Made For This? - Nerf the perkMultiple content creators have done studies. Hard tunneling only occurs in like 10% of games.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950097#Comment_3950097
never said I don't drop chases or think strategically.
I said I don't overthink it.
and I do try to win. every game.
don't just assume to know me.
You literally said you just chase the survivor you see unless they just got off hook. If you're over here dropping chases and playing macro, then you're not "just chasing the survivor you see," now are you?
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@SoGo said:
BTW, for those who don't know, there actually IS a sound queue (or a sudden lack of ambient noise) that tells you that he is travelling to you.
But it's so faint you have to try hard to hear it even without other obstruction sounds.
It's probably a bug. There's probably supposed to be an audio that plays there (which is why audio gets muted), but the killer is so bugged right now that not even that is working properly.
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@Alice_pbg said:
I don't overthink it. I see someone, I chase.
I see 2 someones, I chase the newer guy because I wanna avoid tunneling if possible.
and that is it. It ending on 4k or 4 escapes doesn't really matter if the match was fun.
And this is how most survivors want killers to play. Without any strategy or macro. One that will hold a chase, no matter how strong the tile or how much of a bad idea chasing into GoJ main while gens are about to pop really is. Not really trying to win. They want a killer bot that's still piloted by a human so that it's still satisfying to tbag at the gates.
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@etisatis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949787#Comment_3949787
I don’t avoid kills, especially when they’re deserved. If a team is strong, coordinated, or just straight-up cocky and wants to turn the match into a loop marathon - I’m all in.
And yeah, there are also inexperienced but arrogant players who don’t contribute to the team - instead, they just teabag, bait, or try to provoke me. Those are the ones who often end up sacrificed, because they make themselves a problem while doing nothing to help their teammates.
So no, I’m not “handing out” escapes. I just play with some flexibility - punish arrogance, reward effort, and make sure the match is still fun for everyone.
You punish survivors for… looping?
Honestly, it sounds like a God complex. "I reward effort and punish arrogance." Oof. Just play the game, man.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949895#Comment_3949895
Damn. That powercreep on intel perks really messed the killer community up, huh?
Either way, a lot of times it goes, "Chase → Down → Hook → Look → Look Some More
Okay? Should we care?
YOU being consistently unable to find people doesn't make the survivor buff -not- niche.
Perhaps if survivors were more bold and willing to take and hold chase, there'd be less tunneling.
By which you mean 'survivors should just run up to me to get their first smack in, and then I'll consider chasing them'. Do you realise how entitled you sound? Why shouldn't you be expected to find survivors, and suffer for it if you fail to do so?
You don't have to care. I guarantee that whatever BHVR has cooking isn't going to change this bit of gameplay. The person unhooking isn't going to have any protections. The most that'll change is having to get around the body blocking survivor trying to use their anti-tunnel offensively. Depending on how powerful that is, it may be worth it to tunnel them out if they do so.
And no, I don't think survivors should give me a free hit. But look at it like this: You have zero hook states. The guy coming off hook is now on death hook. You want me to chase you instead of chasing the guy coming off of hook. If you want me to do that, you may have to actually play some tiles instead of Shift+W with Sprint Burst all the way to main building or hiding in some bushes.
The fact of the matter is, if survivors don't want to be found, they won't be (without aura perks), especially on maps like Swamp or Toba.
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@IamtheMilkman said:
The fact that people have to play nurse or blight at top tier mmr shows how unbelievably unbalanced the game truly is. Whether it’s map design, gen speed, or the thousands of second chance perks survivors have. The state of the game is dog water because devs refuse to balance at the game at high mmr.
Technically Spirit is an M1 killer, and she does just fine.
Here's a pro tip: If you care about winning, play strong killers. I get it, M1 killers are generally easier to play. Clown's bottles are much easier to get the hang of than Blight flicks or Nurse jumps. Spirit is so technical that she needed a 350 page guide to explain. But you don't get to pick C or D tier killers, get rekt by good survivors who know how to loop, then complain that the game is unfair. Not all killers are created equal.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949701#Comment_3949701
Survivors will literally never get over when killers got 2.5% on kicks and a quarter of a second off of their pallet breaks. By the way, that was the same update that gave survivors basekit BT, which is arguably a lot more impactful than .2 seconds off of a gen kick.
It isn't, except if the killer is constantly running afoul of it.
That's part of the substantial distinction between what killers got out of 6.1 and what survivors got out of it. The killer buffs are, with the one exception being the bloodlust one, universal. EVERY killer, no matter how they play, will kick a gen at some point. They will hit survivors. They will break pallets. They will make survivors sprint upon getting hit. A lot of these will be done plenty of times per match, too.
But the only killers that will notice the basekit BT are the ones who are at the hook at the moment of unhooking.
This is a list of compounding, universal killer buffs that affect every match and specifically more impactfully affect those that are not tunnelling/camping/slugging, versus survivors being -slightly- harder to tunnel and considerably harder to camp.
If you just follow the normal gameplay loop of 'Chase → down → hook → chase', then survivors got nothing out of this, while you got six buffs.
Chase → Down → Hook → Chase
That sounds really good in theory. Until you check the generators and can't find anyone because they either pre-ran into Narnia or are hiding out. Either way, a lot of times it goes, "Chase → Down → Hook → Look → Look Some More → Back to the Hook Because You Know Someone is Coming to Save → Survivor Getting Off Hook Uses Basekit BT/OTR/DS to Bodyblock → Gets 'Tunneled' → Whines in EGC and the Forums"
Perhaps if survivors were more bold and willing to take and hold chase, there'd be less tunneling. Just saying. I'm not going to start chasing the Jake who has a 10 second (on top of Sprint Burst) head start, and I'm not going to spend 5 minutes trying to find the immersed Claudette in the Swamp. 90% of the time when I go back to hook, it's because I couldn't find someone to chase or they unhooked right next to me. And if the Unhooked person impedes my ability to go after the person who unhooked them in any way, I just "tunnel" them. Oh, and that goes for the rest of the match. You get bold with your first unhook anti-tunnel stuff, I'll assume you want to be bold with your second set, too.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949701#Comment_3949701
These are the patch notes for 6.1, for those wondering about these "amazing buffs that killers got."As a person who really only started playing shortly after 6.1 was, those actually seem pretty amazing.
The killer lost out on one really powerful strategy, and in return gained buffs to lots of other elements of their gameplay. If you didn't employ that strategy, or you were against survivors who would have been using BT anyway, its a pretty big positive.
Like as a survivor I would gladly trade syringes and stacked commodious toolboxes for basekit 10% faster vaults. The vast majority of players would lose nothing and those fractions of a second when they grant/deny a hit are critical.
But would you trade, say… basekit Corrupt for it?
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@UnicornMedal said:
I'm guessing that whatever it is, it's either going to be very weak or scrapped early on.
I doubt it on both counts.
They're already trying to pad the blow, saying things like, "don't worry, your mmr will eventually even out." Or, "If kill rates drop, we'll buff killers."
That tells me it's not weak. As for scrapping the system altogether, I don't think so. Tunneling has become the number one point of discussion on the forums and Reddit.
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@Mr_K said:
Just an FYI, 8 hooking and not killing will lower your MMR score. The lower your score the more less skilled survivors you will face. By the time you get to Gold grades you will have to kill in order to pip. That means you will be killing baby survivors to advance to Iri.
Otherwise play how you want. If you want to 8 hook and let them leave. Then that's how you should play.
I thought it was fishy when they said they get Iri 1 without killing survivors lol.
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I don't let killers let me leave. If I'm going to escape, I'm going to earn it. I don't beg for gates or hatch. It's demeaning and frankly insulting. Yes, you won. You don't need to patronize me. Get your kill so we can all go on to the next match.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947664#Comment_3947664
Unfortunately, slugging for the 4k isn't any less viable.
Because now, if you slug the 3rd, the 4th has two options: do gens and give away their position, or hide and let the giga buffed afk crows give away their position.
Both options lead to the last 2 survivors dying. So it's like they just incentivized slug for the 4k even more, somehow.
Distortion died for this, btw. So killers could "find the last one or two hiding", yet here we are.
Distortion died because it could negate an entire build without ever running out of tokens.
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@terumisan said:
i have no idea and whatever they implement killers will be worse off
Obviously. There's no way they're not going to botch it.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949738#Comment_3949738
This is a suggestion i have had for a while. Make the survivors share the 1st hook state, then you get your own 2nd and 3rd hook state.
This means that if you have 4 survivors and you hook the same 1 3 times, you just burned through 3 of the teams shared hook states. And the earliest you can kill a survivor is on the 6th hook.
This means that if you want to tunnel someone out, you need to hit them at least 7 times. And just walking in a straight line and hooking a survivor, is going to take like 40 seconds. So 40 seconds * 6 times = 240 seconds, plenty of time for 2 survivors to finish 5 gens and open the gates.
It also weakens stuff like grim and pain resonance because you aren't going to want to hook the same guy 6 times and only get the effect once early, forcing you to spread your pressure.
This also helps with camping, because you would need to burn through 6 hook states before you can kill a survivor on hook.
It also isn't making survivors share ALL the hook states. So if you are good, you don't feel bad for instantly getting hooked and dying because your team burned through all the hook states before your first chase. You are always given at least 2 chances.
Of course as part of this, they need to address other things on the killer side to make sure that things are more balanced around having 4 survivors in the game for 6 hooks, such as basekit corrupt, maybe basekit corrupt on totems for a short time. Basekit better gen defense etc.
I had a similar idea, except it was shared Struggle hooks. That way people could still use their deliverance or whatnot.
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I have no idea how they'll actually do it.
How I hope they'll do it? Just make it impossible to die before the fifth or sixth hook of the game. They can be chased and downed, but if you put them on the hook, they just go back into struggle phase with an unlimited timer (and don't contribute to the hook count.) To keep players from getting griefed, let them unhook themselves after 30-60 seconds or something.
Currently, if you die on third hook… yeah you were tunneled. If you die on fourth hook, you can still probably call that tunneling. An argument can be made for fifth hook with ping-pong tunneling, though I personally disagree. But if you get killed on sixth hook, you weren't tunneled. You've had a chance to do some gens and get some heals in. If you die on sixth hook, that means that each survivor was hooked once, or three survivors were hooked, with two of them hooked twice. That's not tunneling, even if you were chased off of hook.
I think that giving survivors invulnerability or basekit DS or whatever is just going to create more problems than it solves. My way makes sure that all survivors actually get a chance to play the game without disrupting the mid- or end-game too much.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949720#Comment_3949720
To be fair, the survivor getting noticeably less distance on hit kinda was game changing. That was a crazy good buff that killers got.
That and the death of Dead Hard alone were enough for the patch to be very impactful for killer.
I'm not saying that it wasn't impactful, but the extra distance gained from .3 of a second is 1.2m.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949701#Comment_3949701
Survivors will literally never get over when killers got 2.5% on kicks and a quarter of a second off of their pallet breaks.
And Killers never seem to remember that when they complain about gens popping too fast.
I would argue that the purpose of the basekit BT was more to prevent Survivors from being insta-downed after an unhook rather than to disincentivize tunneling. And so that Survivors could have a little more freedom in their builds rather than having to run BT every game.
My point is that most of the changes were literally fractions of a second. One free stack of STBFL isn't some massive buff. It's a buff, and made killer feel better, but it's not absolutely game changing.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949598#Comment_3949598
What I'm seeing is Killer mains constantly claiming that "Tunneling is the only way to win," just like the whole topic of this thread. That tells me that anything less than a 100% kill rate is unacceptable for them. Heaven forbid that they take a chance that they might actually lose a game here and there by spreading hooks.
Buffing Killers has done nothing to disincentivize tunneling, as shown since 6.1.0. So now the devs are trying it in reverse. Mandy has said that if killrates suffer as a result of the upcoming anti tunnel/camp/slug, then Killers will be adjusted as needed.
Survivors will literally never get over when killers got 2.5% on kicks and a quarter of a second off of their pallet breaks. By the way, that was the same update that gave survivors basekit BT, which is arguably a lot more impactful than .2 seconds off of a gen kick.
These are the patch notes for 6.1, for those wondering about these "amazing buffs that killers got."
- Generators take 90 seconds for a single survivor to repair (was 80 seconds)
- Killers kicking a generator now immediately cause a 2.5% loss of progress in addition to starting regression
- Bloodlust trigger times have been reduced to 15 seconds for Tier 1, 25 seconds for Tier 2, and 35 seconds for Tier 3 (was 15 seconds, 30 seconds, and 45 seconds)
- The following Killer actions have been sped up by 10%:
- Time to kick a pallet or wall has been reduced to 2.34 seconds (was 2.6 seconds)
- Time to kick a generator has been reduced to 1.8 seconds (was 2 seconds)
- Cooldown time after a successful hit has been reduced to 2.7 seconds (was 3 seconds)
- Duration of the Survivor speed boost when hit has been reduced to 1.8 seconds (was 2 seconds)
- Survivors now have a modified version of Borrowed Time as a baseline ability, no perk required
- Unhooked Survivors now get a 7% movement speed bonus and Endurance for 5 seconds
- The speed bonus and Endurance effect are removed if the Survivor performs a Conspicuous Action
- New Term - Conspicuous Actions
- Includes: Repairing a Generator, healing yourself or others, cleansing or blessing a Totem, sabotaging a hook, unhooking a survivor, and opening an exit gate.
- Added a new section and description to the Game Manual.
- Endurance status effect is now cancelled by Conspicuous Actions
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949643#Comment_3949643
That is really good idea too.
It's really the simplest answer and probably wouldn't be too hard to implement. No survivor may be killed before the fifth hook of the game. That means that either two people are on death hook, or one person is on death hook and two others have been hooked once. Either way, not tunneling.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949662#Comment_3949662
so you need 20 second chases
Which is why I swapped from Trapper to Spirit.
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@WalterBlack said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948161#Comment_3948161
Ah, yeah. As someone who plays Killer pretty frequently, I can tell how much Survivors care about my fun and the game's health!
Well, that's why they have a little dance party in the exit gates every time you lose. It's to show you a good time!
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949353#Comment_3949353
The game's maths assume that the killer is taking actions that stop all three survivors from being on generators at once.
Yes, at the start you have nothing to stop them, but as soon as you get your first hook, the amount of survivors doing gens at once will shift unless you just stick by that hook and do nothing.
Tunnelling is not the only way to win. It's the easiest, because it requires the least skill to perform and a massively disproportionate amount of skill (+ preparation ahead of time in most cases) to beat, but it's not the only way to win.
But that's only true for killers that can end another chase by the time the survivor on hook has been rescued and healed. So… A tier killers or better.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949010#Comment_3949010
Sure, but the whole topic is the 3 gen meta, which continued through, again: eruption nerf, cob and overcharge nerf, skull merchant rework #1, and was finally stopped by the regression limit.
So for about 9 months, people still continued to 3 gen relentlessly after circle of healing. Which was your very wrong assessment of the situation.
Oh, come on. Are you seriously trying to tell me that people were 3 genning with 125% regression speed and the occasional 10% off, but only when people were downed? That's not to mention that at the time, kicks only dealt 2.5% gen progress and you could tap the gen to get rid of CoB and Overcharge regression. 6.7 killed the gen kick meta. The regression limit a year later was beating a dead horse.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948645#Comment_3948645
The main point was to give last unhooked survivor some sort of protection and this is just discussion of posibilities. As I mentioned only the "hard tunnel" should be punished. There are other option like making the haste and endurance of hook way longer, but at this point it will make no difference to killers like Nurse, Blight, Billy, Kaneki… but will make huge difference to lower tier killers which is in my opinion also not really a good way and survivors can offensively block too. It's also why I ended with "opinions"? So I'd gladly hear another opinions or possible options.
What is a "hard tunnel" in your opinion? Because to me, the only tunneling that should be prohibited is tunneling from the start of the game. When hooks 1, 2, and 3, are all the same person and then the game is unfun for everyone. If you're dying on hook 3, you were tunneled. Hook 4, probably still counts as tunneling. But if you're dying on hook 5 or 6, you weren't tunneled. Even if you were chased off of hook because your teammate didn't unhook you properly. The killer went after multiple people, downed them and hooked them.
"Tunneling" doesn't mean "killed me faster than I would have liked."
So, no. I don't think that you should get basekit DS, or longer BT. Just make it so that no survivor can be killed before hook #5. If you try to hook a survivor on death hook before hook 5, they just get an extra struggle hook and it doesn't count on the hook counter.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948833#Comment_3948833
Well sure, there are always those people who consider the most absurd things tunnelling but I think the vast majority of us know what hard tunnelling is.
I am talking about killers who the second you unhook, they return to hook and even if I try to block them and take aggro away from the survivor I unhooked, they absolutely will not hit me unless I completely block their tunnel and they have to hit me to get past but even then they will continue to target the survivor who just came off hook.
This kind of hard tunnelling is the problem, not the delusions of survivors who think they should be immune from chase for the next 5 minutes after an unhook.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949076#Comment_3949076
I say keep it up, doing this will just contribute to the devs being forced to implement base kit anti tunnel measures. All the killers relying on tunnelling to win matches will be in real trouble then, as they will have to actually learn to play the game and how to pressure gens rather than rely on tunnelling (and NOED) to compensate for poor plays.
The thing is… I don't think many survivors know what "tunneling" is anymore. Sure, you have the people on the forums and the like who know, but I have a feeling that a lot of the people posting, "I can't stand tunneling every match!!!!!" threads aren't getting tunneled every match. "Tunneling" has become a catch-all for "killed me quicker than I would have liked."
The fact of the matter is, hard tunneling only happens in about 10% of games. Multiple content creators have verified this independently over thousands of combined games. If you pay attention to your own survivor games, I'm sure you'll notice that in most games, nobody is dead before hook 5 or 6… which by definition isn't hard tunneling. So if BHVR only goes after "hard tunneling" in their "anti-tunnel" update, I have a feeling that A LOT of survivor players are going to be upset that they didn't go further.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948949#Comment_3948949
As someone who has quite literally not taken Bardic off any of my builds since getting it (except to do spiders meme builds), it feels extra miserable when I'm just playing off spawn or near a gen I am near and the killer goes and hard focuses me for just trying to have fun, is the perk mid? Yes. Does that mean I deserve to get tunneled because I chose to not immediately cancel it so you could chase me? Not at all. Is this fairly uncommon? Sure, about 1/4 games, but I know for a fact when someone is playing that silly instrument I am leaving them alone or walking up to them to nod at them in agreement. Everyone deserves to have fun playing the game.
So you stand out in the open, get out an instrument that makes a bunch of noise, and sit still for a lengthy period of time… and don't expect to get slapped?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948966#Comment_3948966
I'm just going to point out for everyone else that this is wildly (hilariously) incorrect.
Patch 6.7.0 (March 2023): circle of healing nerf, medkit nerf. This removed CoH self care and also removed it from being meta.
Patch 7.5.0 (January 2024) nearly a year later, generator regression limit added to finally kill off the 3 gen meta.
These two things were not related.
And which update killed Overcharge and CoB?
Couldn't possibly be 6.7, right?
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948992#Comment_3948992
"Nobody likes to lose" I'm sorry what, that is factually wrong. Most people care significantly more about the journey to get there than anything else. That's why people play games, that's why most games competitive scene is always significantly smaller than the casual player base, people care about having fun. People care about enjoying their time doing something no matter the outcome. Wanting to and needing to win is textbook narcissism, no one "deserves" to win anything.
Apparently you've never seen someone lose at Monopoly lol.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948915#Comment_3948915
Caring about winning in a party game is absolutely insane. Do you also care when you lose at Mario Party? Games are meant to be fun.
Nobody likes to lose at Mario Party. Just like nobody likes to lose at anything lol.
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The Animatronic needs a teleport warning just like every other killer teleport.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948947#Comment_3948947
"Free weekend" That didn't bring in more players than the update on Tuesday, the game is sitting at sub 70k on steam on a Sunday night after what has been touted as the "most anticipated chapter" ever. The player numbers are still actively going further and further now and the numbers prove that. 9.0.0 directly nerfing survivors while gamebreaking bugs stay in the game for over a week, remember you need 4 survivors compared to 1 killer, no one wants to play survivor. No one wants to load into a game to play as a punching bag.
Believe me, I know. I'm not playing Survivor again until Springtrap's teleport gets a notification, however long that takes.