The_Second_Coming
The_Second_Coming
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Like an energizer battery, this guy. Dude, you need to pipe down and realize when you backed yourself into a corner. You admit to having inadequate experience in that which you are arguing. That's really where your high ground ends. With a big steep cliff edge.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994413#Comment_994413
I see camping happen regularly, and actually get facecamped if I am running a particularly annoying build like head-on and a flashlight. Why do you think almost every single red rank survivor runs BT and DS? Because camping doesn't happen? It is the only answer to it.
Whenever I take the perks off and some scrub killer gets to camp down my teammate and win the game off it, I remember why BT/DS is the meta. At least with them, I can punish it.
So you use a build that even you admit is especially annoying...and you're complaining about them using an equally as annoying play-style?
Of course camping happens. It doesn't happen nearly as much as survivors say it does (unless they literally ask for it by going out of their way to be annoying, like you admit to with your "particularly annoying build" that you are completely aware is annoying).
If you bring in a build made to bully a killer, you don't get to whine when you get camped. Also - if a camper wins the game, you got outplayed. Not by the killer; but by yourself. If the killer is camping one person, the other 3 have all the time they need to do gens and leave. DS and BT aren't run JUST got camping. The reality is, most run BT so they can farm someone in the killers face for BP, and most run DS to get that sweet 60 seconds of untouchability. It's used FAR more in situations that have nothing to do with tunneling than it is with actual tunneling.
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We've got a W gamer who doesn't look behind him here.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994378#Comment_994378
At rank 1-2, when a sweaty killer is getting demolished by some genrushing survivors, you can almost bet they are going to start camping, tunneling, and slugging in an attempt to save the game.
BT / DS are pretty much the only answer to it currently, and they are not even that good of an answer to a camping 1 shot killer. You can trade, that's about it. 1 person is probably always going to die every game unless you do something crazy like deliverance off into a key escape.
I'm at rank 1 both survivor and killer. The only time I see camping occur is when the exit gate is power. That is 100% fair game, and you should not be able to combine your BT with their DS to get a free escape.
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@Daddy_Ding_Dong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994377#Comment_994377
That would be valid - if - the data wasn't readily available to you. Which it is.
And you did take a stance on it. You said, in your own words "I think they are too common"; now you're saying you don't have a stance, and even emphasized that at high ranks, you don't know. This leads me to believe that through his..."words", he may have been right in that you don't actually know what you're talking about when it comes to red rank game play in survivor. So maybe this is a debate you shouldn't have gotten into if you don't have the experience to back it up. How can you think they are too common, and then admit to not having experience? You threw the debate right there, man.
You can only use the "burden of proof" shtick when you actually have conflicting experience to disagree with it. Since you admittedly don't have that experience, you have no right to be calling him out on it. No matter how flawed his argumentative and obviously biased standpoint was.
Have a good one, dude
OOF. You can bet he's writing a big TL;DR to comeback to that one.
But yeah, if you admit to not having the experience, you really have no right to contest someone who does.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994372#Comment_994372
Do you know how incredibly easy that would make it to sit there and facecamp down people from 2nd hook to dead?
Then you better use it wisely, then. Stop acting like every killer facecamps. It's simply not true.
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It should just be one use per match.
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So - first of all, tunneling and camping are legitimate strategies. They may not be fun to go against, but they are legitimate.
Secondly, blame BHVR for the queue times. They're the ones continuously giving Killers the proverbial shaft with unneeded nerfs and unwanted reworks that nobody asked for. They're just leaving the game.
Ask BHVR to stop treating killers like second class.
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@Daddy_Ding_Dong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994359#Comment_994359
It absolutely is unreasonable. You're more or less choosing to ignore the data that can be easily obtained yourself in order to stand on your pseudo soap box. I can fully back you up that he's handling himself the wrong way, but you're on no intellectual high ground here. You're literally just as bad. The argument your making goes against what red rank survivors see.
He's right in that if a mori offering or two every 10-20 games is "too much", then it sounds like a personal problem.
fair enough I suppose
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@Daddy_Ding_Dong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994349#Comment_994349
No, you've pretty much been doing the same thing he has. You're both as bad as one another. You're asking him (or her?) to prove something they never said they had proof of.
You show too much sense.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994342#Comment_994342
He is saying "uh huh." I am saying "show me." I don't think it is bad to be unconvinced at someone who is actively and arguably deliberately not demonstrating their point.
I literally said it was based off my experience. You're straight up being unreasonable by asking me to provide statistical data. Red rank killers HOARD mori offerings. They barely use them.
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Mori happens 1 out of 10-20 games. "Too common".
OOF.
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This isn't where DBD is heading. It's where it's been since 2017.
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@ChunChunMaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994320#Comment_994320
True. But if it spawns on their side, they are likely to find it anyways. Good survivors will find the totem no problem. So at the very least, if it spawns on the opposite half of the map, they still have to walk all the way across to look for the totem. And the killer will be walking towards were the survivor spawned, encouraging survivors to stealth play around them, or wait for them to be distracted with another survivor.
or just spawn it away from everyone
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@ChunChunMaru said:
A lot of players, both killers and survivors, have asked for there to be a secondary objective. As we all know, Gen Speeds are ridiculously quick. And while I actually like the Ruin rework (if it was no longer a hex), there will be nothing stopping gens from popping in the first few minutes anymore. Totems have always been a part of the game, but they are often ignored, unless they are Hex totems. And even then, none of the hex totems besides old ruin and Noed (which players are attacked for using), are worth breaking if you can just bust out the gens. Old ruin could even be ignored by good survivor players.
This might be a band-aid fix, but I figure why not add more depth to the totem aspect of the game? Dull totems are just extra points for survivor. They serve no purpose other than spawning a potential Noed for killers. What if dull totems actively give the survivor players a debuff to repair speeds? Maybe something like 2-3% per totem, for a maximum of 10 to 15% with all 5 totems being up? Working on gens together would be discouraged and perks like Prove Thyself would mean more. I think generally survivor perks would mean more. Small game and detectives hunch could be meaningfully ran and builds could be more diverse.
If survivors wish to rush the gens anyways, then they would do so significantly slower, allowing set-up or low mobility killers to play the game without losing a gen or two without any say in it. And survivors could counter the debuff with toolboxes, making it a real option instead of a "win more" type of deal. It would also encourage survivor players to "have a choice between when it's necessary to cleanse a totem and when it isn't". With the new ruin/surveillance combo, killers are alert when it comes to generators. For the most part, killers can't find you if you aren't on a gen, if they haven't hooked someone, or if you aren't near enough to be heard. If the killer is bad then you could probably bust out the totems and gen rush them anyways. If they are good, you would have to know when to work on a gen, totem, or save a fellow survivor. Honestly, I'd much rather have a whole different objective. But I don't think this idea is so bad. And it's easily implemented.
Totem spawns are RNG and would need to be fixed. Generally, the spots need to be better hidden. But more importantly, I think Hex totems should spawn where the killer spawns. This would ensure that the totem isn't immediately destroyed and survivors would have to avoid the killer on their way to the other side to begin their search. And if the totems become a more important aspect of the game, we could have killers decorate their totems or survivors could have fun effects or animations when cleansing a totem.
Thoughts?
Most of that could work...potentially. Having them spawn next to the killer isn't a good idea, though. Then you'd generally know exactly where to look if you're a survivor. The opposite side of the map from where you spawned.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994265#Comment_994265
I never said I had the data to prove it, so yes, you continously asking me to prove it is a strawman. I never said I had proof, therefore there is no burden of said proof.
That is not how burden of proof works. Burden of proof means that it is up to the person making a claim to provide proof, not that the person has to demonstrate proof only if they say they have proof. You claimed that reality demonstrates that the claims of moris being too frequent are highly exaggerated. If I ask you to demonstrate that to be true, simply stating "I never said that I have proof" does not mean that it falls on someone else to disprove the claim. It simply means you simply aren't showing that the claim you are making is demonstrably true.
Except - I specified that the claim is based off my own experience, and other rank 1 survivors that I watch in streams. Therefore - the burden of proof is invalid. I do not have to prove my own experience. Now please, stop quoting the google dictionary, and try something you can win. <3
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Sad part is, they probably still rank up.
Meanwhile, at red rank killer, you can kill everyone and almost depip at times.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994242#Comment_994242
What strawman? If it's common knowledge, it should be simple to demonstrate it to be true. So demonstrate it to be true.
Mori's are simply not common among red rank killers. We don't like to use them. Even we consider them unfair. I never said I had the data to prove it, so yes, you continously asking me to prove it is a strawman. I never said I had proof, therefore there is no burden of said proof. I LITERALLY quoted that it was from my experience, and observed experience of other red rank survivors. When you get out of yellow ranks, you'll figure it out too. :)
Again - climb down out of my ass and ask BHVR. They have the statistical data. Troll elsewhere, buddy boy.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994211#Comment_994211
As I said, ask a competent survivor how often, at red ranks, they see a Mori from a red rank killer. It's not frequent. They can't both hoard them and use them all the time. That's not how it works.
Hey, you're the one making the claim. Burden of proof. Show me the Survivors saying this.
I don't have to prove it. This is the average experience of a red rank survivor.
You have not proven that. The point is that it falls on the person making that claim to support it.
You're trying really hard to create an intellectual corner to stick me in - and it's not working. The burden of proof strawman doesn't work *when it's common knowledge*. You don't get to throw it at me when you've never been to red ranks. Maybe you get mori'd every game in yellow ranks, and I mean, sure, but if you're going to sit here and tell me mori's are common at red ranks when we can all see they aren't, you're literally just trolling at this point.
*dusts off shoulder* Try harder.
Get off my jock, pal. Ask BHVR. I don't owe you anything, and you need to stop acting like I do. I made a claim based on my experience, and my observations watching other rank 1 survivors (don't worry - you'll make it there one day!) stream. Mori's are FAR less common then you would have people believe.
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It's not that everyone is playing survivor - it's that killers are an endangered species. They are straight up leaving. Not switching to survivor.
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Survivor and killer rank 1.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994192#Comment_994192
Feel free to join me at red ranks. Any competent survivor, AND killer will tell you if they are at red ranks, a mori from other red rank killers is uncommon.
And if a competent Survivor and Killer says otherwise?
Like I said, based on reality. Prove otherwise. Spoiler: You can't.
The burden of proof lies on the person that made the claim.
As I said, ask a competent survivor how often, at red ranks, they see a Mori from a red rank killer. It's not frequent. They can't both hoard them and use them all the time. That's not how it works.
I don't have to prove it. This is the average experience of a red rank survivor.
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@Pulsar said:
Bans aren't discussed on the Forums. He can submit a ticket, I think.
As for your question, ask him when he got banned. Take that date and add 160 days. That will be when he can play with again.
Hope this helped!
(you misunderstood him - he has a game ban - it's permanent)
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It's a permanent ban. Tell him not to break the rules next time.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994180#Comment_994180
That is not something you have proven, nor is it something I believe you can actually prove.
Feel free to join me at red ranks. Any competent survivor, AND killer will tell you if they are at red ranks, a mori from other red rank killers is uncommon.
Like I said, based on reality. Prove otherwise. Spoiler: You can't.
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I don't think it's quite that frequent. Maybe with matchmaking in it's current state, most red rank survivors are consistently getting yellow rank killers (which are the ones most likely to use mori's). But red rank killers? Mori's are actually pretty rare. Most of them don't need them, and would rather have the extra BP you get for a sacrifice. A lot of them only break out a mori in special circumstances. A 4 man SWF, 4 flashlights, 4 blendette's etc.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993718#Comment_993718
Based on what?
Based on reality.
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@Colton147 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993681#Comment_993681
Borrowed Time is also fine; it can be avoided by leaving the hooked survivor outside your terror radius (or play a champion that can lack a terror radius, such as Myers, Ghostface, Wraith, and Piggy).
I didn't say it wasn't. Of course it is.
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@Dustin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993723#Comment_993723
Moris are cool but there's nothing special about them when I can just horde and spam them. Also there's nothing scary about games where you're camped just so a killer can mori you. A game with a mori should be more exciting than that. That's why I believe mori should have more requirements. It should be one of those special offerings that changes up the game to be more fun not a chore where no one gets any BP.
Let's say you had a max of 14 ebony mori's you could find in a week (2 a day) and after a couple of days after purchase the mori you purchased expired refunding your BP. After a week (Think Shrine) the mori cap would reset. This would make mori's less spammable and make them feel a bit more special.
You could argue what does this solve and we could say nothing but the ideal situation is this would
- Make Mori feel special
- Reduce unfun games
For context and yes it's all RNG I know but I pretty much find 1-2 Ebony's every 2-3 bloodwebs minimum. Pretty crazy number imo and honestly I'd prefer to just have killer addons instead of mori's on my bloodweb. To clarify I can pretty much make the BP back from my mori in a game and have another one ready for the next game.
This doesn't address the fact that *mori's aren't used nearly as much as people say*.
The ones who use them are the ones who basically rely on them. They'll never get passed yellow ranks anyway. At red, purple and even green ranks, you'll end up seeing mori's brought to games, and a lot of the time never being used at all.
As I said, people complaining about the mori are outright lying, exaggerating their frequency because they're butthurt that they got mori'd. THAT is the real issue. Not the mori themselves.
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@Dustin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993553#Comment_993553
Realistically speaking regarding Mori's how do you make them more rare when I can just stockpile them with no urgency to use them. I quite literally have hundreds of them because I never use them and I actively avoid them on my bloodweb because they're so common. Honest opinion but making something appear less on the bloodweb isn't going to solve that problem. imo you'd have to limit how many you can have, how long you can hold mori's or both. If I wanted to I could use one every game for the next event and I'd still probably have some left over.
Bias though is mori should be two hooks on a survivor. Not hook phases because you can camp those out but actual hooks.
Keys should have more things to be used on + have a varying amount of easy puzzles to solve using them.
You just proved my point. No urgency to use them. Stock piling. How are mori's so "common" if they are used so sparingly?
HUGE logic hole, there.
If mori's were 2 hooks, you may as well remove them. Besides, the problem isn't the mori's, or the keys. It's people taking the game too seriously to see the fun in something. Being mori'd is awesome. I love it :D
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993696#Comment_993696
Rarity is not a good balancing tool IMO. It showing up less often does not make it less OP; it just lowers the frequency of seeing something that OP.
The frequency isn't high anyway. It's exaggerated ridiculously by literally everyone who complains about it.
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@YaiPa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993688#Comment_993688
I know the game is gonna die. But, if the added a cool down to the shock, who clearly wasn't an issue for decent survivors, I'm scared of what they will do to billy, considered op by many high level survivors. Pretty sure they will nerf carburetor.
There was a built in shock cooldown anyway before the Doc rework (switching back to punishment mode), so it doesn't matter. The only thing that really changed is you can't spam the shock anymore, which shouldn't hurt you if you're actually trying to play vs being annoying. Doc's rework was a buff. Even most competent Doc mains know this.
Billy also has a built in cooldown after use of his chainsaw (whether that be a hit or just stopping). If they add a "meter" to it, that's cool, as long as it doesn't make the cooldown longer.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993590#Comment_993590
I think the solution to that would be to make moris count as a hook/sacrifice.
I would say just make them more rare. Even still though, people complain about mori's so much that you would think they happen every game, which is not even remotely the case. It's more like once every 10-20 games, if that. I've had one mori in the last like...over a month. Most killer mains have hoards of mori's that they don't use. They wouldn't have those if they were that common. Same used to go with keys, but since EGC was a thing, keys have shot up in popularity.
People grossly over exaggerate the frequency of mori's, and complain about it in rage because they got mori'd for the first time in 20 games and they're tilted because they weren't good enough to lose the killer in the first place. Believe it or not - mori's are more common in brown/yellow ranks, from killers who aren't as competent. It's the survivors at that level (in skill, not actual in game level, cause ranking up as survivor is piss easy) that are complaining.
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@YaiPa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993652#Comment_993652
sure? because I'm start seeing a fil rouge on how their reworks are: just add a red bar filling as cool down. They added cool down for nurse, they added cool down for doctor, they'll add cool down before revving up the chainsaw after a miss because "billy doesn't get punished".
Changing Billy's base kit will be a death sentence for BHVR.
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@Blueberry said:
I think they're both unhealthy and should be reworked.
I also think all "second chance" perks need to be reworked as well though.
NOED, DS, Unbreakable and BT are all unhealthy for the game in their current state.
NOED is fine where it is. It can be prevented completely by destroying 5 totems. Which is easy to do. It already has a HUGE downside.
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@YaiPa said:
if they keep this pace, when they will rework (read nerf) billy, probably at the start of 2021, maybe they'll fix emblems system (chaser in particular).
I don't think even BHVR is foolish enough to change Billy's base kit. If they think the ruin revolt was bad...people will raid their HQ in Montreal if they do that.
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Yeah...the killer emblems are awful.
It sucks too, cause when I go in as survivor, even at red ranks, I can pip without even thinking about it. Do a gen or two, get a hook save, leave. Easy PIP.
Play killer, and you might be lucky if you pip when you kill all the survivors. So backwards.
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Pinhead. He wouldn't work. His entire character is based on killing people with telekinesis and getting his minions to do the work for him.
Everyone saying Pennywise, however...he would be great for DBD. His Mori would be sick, too.
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@Bill_I_Am__Overbeck said:
Clown looks like he's getting a pretty awesome skin, but after playing him without Ruin in preparation for the new update, he's pretty much a goner when it comes to pressure.
Will be sad to see elephant clown gone after 2 days of the cosmetic being released :c
Indeed. On more recent, smaller maps like Hawkins, The Game or even Yamaoka, he can do some pressure...but on older maps like Coldwind, Red Forest and Haddonfield, which are the size of states, he's doomed.
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The big issue with reworking them is, you need to rework them in a way where they aren't useless. Like, everyones idea that mori's should only work when the survivor is on death hook effectively makes them useless. There would be no reason to use that over just a normal sacrifice. Sacrifices give more points.
Keys are a bit easier to rework without destroying their viability.
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Indeed, sir.
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The Doc update doesn't make it weaker. It's a buff - especially with the cut down cooldown time between his shock and attack.
I'd recommend watching ArchdruidDrey. He's considered one of the best, if not the best Doc main in DBD. He can explain to you why it's a buff.
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Nothing happens.
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Keys - it should only work for the keyholder, and should take 5 seconds to open the hatch with it (both so 3 people can't get a free escape with 1 gen left, and so it can't just be used to run away from a chase).
Mori - just make them more rare. Their function is fine (I say this as a survivor main); the issue is they aren't more rare. If that's even an issue at all. Mori's are fun. I love getting mori'd :)
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993305#Comment_993305
We can't respond to everything, would take forever.
Often, the concerns are addressed elsewhere.
Often, it's something that's a complaint about something that's going to change, but as we've already considered player feedback in the decision... further back-and-forth isn't productive.
Sometimes the questions come loaded with derision for the dev team... that's never productive.
I've been on both sides of this divide: the communication between devs and players. Most of us on the design team have as well; most of us are gamers at heart. I also play a lot of LoL, Rocket League, and Overwatch. Sometimes, the dev team has knowledge that the players don't, and for various reasons may not be able to share with them. Now that I'm on the dev side of a popular game, I have a better understanding of how this dynamic works.
I can promise you that feedback from the forums and youtube videos do often reach us, and we do listen and consider. Just because we don't always agree does not mean that we don't care.
I know it would take forever - but, the issue with that is that for example, in terms of the ruin change, it was always the same question not being answered. So it's not really a matter of time, and no disrespect, it seems like a matter of simply avoiding the question.
So - I'll ask for everyone who has asked this question and has the question apparently dodged by the team members who have replied (while finding a way to not answer the question) in their threads...
When you guys saw that ruin was so widely used...how come research wasn't done on why it was so frequently used? A ruin nerf should have only happened when the base issue was fixed (aka - balance), and contrary to a lot of people I don't think it's necessarily gen speed. It's the maps.
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@Almo said:
We read it and we care.
Perhaps try responding to the questions then?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993256#Comment_993256
You can still depip tho.
That sounds like an issue for both sides, then. At the very least, if someone DC's, it should from then on only be a bloodpoints game.
But blaming survivor DC's on killers...no, screw that. If a survivor disconnects, they made that choice on their own. Regardless of the killers plays. You can't please anyone and if the killer isn't exploiting or doing anything against the games rules, there is no excuse for DCing.
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Billy and his base kit (and majority of his addons) should stay the say. He just needs ultra rares, and his maps need reworks.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/992262#Comment_992262
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/992345#Comment_992345
It should not be promoted in any way that Killers can get the most dirty ways of playing (where people decide to DC the most) and still get rewarded for it. Of course DCs also happen because players are simply Dicks, but sometimes I cannot blame anyone for a DC.
However, neither Killers nor Survivors should depip when one player (Killer or Survivor) disconnects from the Game. If the game is still enough for a Pip - great. If it is a Blackpip anyway, sure. But if one player would depip, he should get a Blackpip instead.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993112#Comment_993112
Its hard to implement a Punishment System when you can still ruin other peoples games by Suiciding or AFKing, while you will also get punished for the game being broken. :/
Like, I dont want to get a punishment because my game crashed on Loading.
When a killer DC's, it's counted as an escape for all 4 survivors. I don't see the issue.
Regardless of the plays.
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I would wear the ######### out of Ace's sweater.
Legit, I'd go commando with just that sweater.