TheDarkWall
TheDarkWall
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- TheDarkWall
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Hmmm, that wouldn't make sense, since it doesn't seem to expand the radius at all from what I can tell. Do you recall when they mentioned this, as I've not seen it anywhere. It also is more or less a repeated location ping rather than an aura. I really wish the devs would clarify this.
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Would be nice to see some of the lower perks be more worth using. I'd like to see a reason for people who don't suck to use unrelenting also.
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It's relative, some killers get a big return, others don't
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So, in general the community response to the legion rework has been that it fixed a lot of the problems from the survivor's perspective regarding counterplay, but that the killer is weaker than before. This added on to the fact that he was already a weaker killer despite his lack of counterplay, something even the developers acknowledged on the rework stream. Also, the reworks to his add ons have made many of them near useless. For instance, Franks and Stab Wound Study essentially do the same thing, and with the deep wounds changes the likelihood of them playing any relevant role in a match is very little. The pins, while not terrible in concept don't apply well. You hit them the second time to apply the ailment. They then have to escape you, lets say 10 seconds. Then they mend, about 20ish seconds. IF things go that well, they now have 30 seconds of an ailment while not under pressure from the killer. Personally, I'd like to see it so the ailment either applies on first hit or so that the ailment applies after mending is completed (Or if downed before mending, after unhook) On another note, the speed add on becoming detection range was also a poor idea in general, since even with duration, the killer is not going to find anyone at the expanded radius in time. So with this in mind, I have two questions.
- Can we expect to see any changes to Legion's base kit?
- Are you looking at changing any of the add ons?
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Increase efforts on prompt glitch fixes and balancing changes.
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I agree. Don't get me wrong he's the worst killer oh, definitely. Without a doubt. But the killers are all fairly viable in one way or another. So that tier list is pretty close together. I've used Freddy at rank one for a very long time, as well as other killers.CrowFoxy said:The worst part is Freddy is actually a decent killer.
He needs a buff and some mechanics need fixed. There is no reason whatsoever that the devs have to hold off and keep this massive rework Undercover to the point where many of us question if it will ever happen since it doesn't involve selling a new DLC pack. Faster dream transition, ability to grab survivors from the hatch, failed rescue attempts and vaults even if they aren't in the dream. The ability to pick people up off the ground even if they are being healed. Multiple failed skill checks to wake up. I don't know if all of those things are necessary, but there are certainly small changes they could make to improve the character.
The thing is, if you can get over not being as good as other killers oh, he's a fun character to play. So my fear is that they will ruin him in the rework. -
I see what you are saying, it's just what you are saying is wrong. Please refrain from talking again.
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I don't know, I use add-ons against everyone. Survive with friends while more challenging isn't necessarily especially scary either.
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Interesting
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I actually really enjoy Freddy and Legion. Freddy isn't the greatest, but he's not horrid either. Yes you will get less kills with him on average and he certainly needs to be buffed. Certain mechanics need changed to stop playing as him from feeling stupid. For instance not being able to pick up a Survivor who is being healed is idiotic.
I actually really really enjoy Legion. I've put a lot of time into him and made a lot of creative builds that all seemed to be viable pretty consistently at rank one. I actually find I can get more creativity out of his builds than I can most killers and they all vary significantly in terms of what my objective will be that match. With the minor buff he got this patch, I'm actually satisfied with where he is. I do feel like maybe something would be in order to reward him for landing a frenzy hit on an injured Survivor rather than an uninjured one, but I don't think that reward should be as intense as what they were doing in the test build. Maybe just a longer mend timer or 5 Seconds off the timer rather than 10. This would basically create a quicker bleed out situation but not one that would allow you to three shot without breaking the Chase.
But to the original topic, yes I enjoyed both of them. I play all the killers, but I probably play Legion and Myers the most. -
Claudettes to the greatest degree, adams or taps wearing dark colors. These costumes combined with their skin color are the only characters that actually have a significant advantage over other survivors and as such I find it somewhat broken. Imo they should be allowed all black or dark brown outfits and should have some sort of bright color on them at all times.
@Khroalthemadbomber said:
P3 Claudettes both when I'm survivor and killer. Killer because they are damned impossible to see and survivor because they are generally some of the most selfish farming pricks who are in it for themselves more than any other survivor/killer besides Leatherface.Aren't killers supposed to be in it for themselves?
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@thesuicidefox said:
Unless we are talking Nurse or Huntress, I disagree that m/kb is necessary in this game. This isn't CSGO where you need pixel perfect accuracy with your camera. Turn your sensitivity over 80 as killer and you can turn fast enough to counter 360's or look around objects very quickly. The reason so many killers get juked is because they never up their sensitivity. Trust me, as both a killer and a survivor, you won't 360 a good killer even on console.Also Xbox is getting native m/kb support soon. They keep pushing it back and pushing it back but it should be happening by the summer at least.
But my main points WERE about nurse and huntress. I already knew all the other stuff you said. That and a lot of the points were about how it wouldn't be unfair to controller players because that is a common objection raised. It would be nice to see something on PS4 also, since thats dev by dev from what I understand. It's the bigger of the two consoles by a significant margin, so most console players are going to be on there.
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It's ok. Myers, doctor, leatherface and trapper too low to varying extents and legion way too high imo. Still good though. Fun memes that I'll be stealing for my discord.
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I don't really dodge often, pretty much if I get a p3 claudette squad or some equivalent, ######### that. Even then I don't always dodge the camo squads. I do understand people avoiding the obvious kick in the dick that SWF groups are when they don't suck. Idk I'm kinda mixed on this issue. I mean SWF does give unnatural levels of coordination that can be annoying, but it doesn't feel that bad unless I'm playing weaker killers like legion or freddy.
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I think the better idea would be to have it be so you run 2 games side by side with lets say, 6 survivors. Every time you hook one, the survivor spawns on the other killers map. The first one to get all 5 gens working on them loses.
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Did the testing. Somewhat disappointing. Didn't test for base mend, but I've heard a lot that it's about 10 seconds, so I'm going with that, seems about right. These are rought figures just taken with a stop watch.
Green add on : 18 seconds
Purple: 20 Seconds
both: 25 seconds.The difference between green and purple is somewhat lackluster, as is the combined total. I guess on the plus side it won't be of much consequence if your build runs out of purple and you have to use the green knives instead.
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If somebody makes it to rank 1 by employing constant face camping, I'd be impressed. Because they'd have to be amazing at everything else to not have everyone but 1 or 2 survivors get out and not get entity displeased from doing so little that resulted in points. I sit pretty comfortably at rank one and will only camp in a gates open situation, and even then it depends on the situation.
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@Dehitay said:
By this point, I thought the constant accusations of Legion being a horrible killer would have died down by now, but I still hear on a daily basis how he's one of the worst killers in the game. And every time I ask why, it's always because he takes multiple hits to down a survivor. Which means a huge number of people still don't know how to play Legion at high efficiency even though they're claiming enough expertise to render a final judgement on him.So I made a guide explaining how I play Legion which seems to be the most efficient way out of what I've seen so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nz7ftP2rHkFor those who don't want to watch the video, here's a basic synopsis:
-Get that first frenzy hit to start deep wounds and get the 2nd if you can to lower the timer
-After you run out of frenzy, move away from the survivor while keeping track of them to break the chase proximity requirement and immediately end the chase
-Once chase is broken, go after the survivor if you can still see them or go to the last place they were and use the Bloodhound perk to follow them with ease
-If they keep their distance, they'll either go down or have to stop to mend and you can hit them. If they try to loop you, just keep track of them without looking at them and wait for deep wounds to get low enough to where another fenzy hit can finish them.For those of you wondering about the actual times for deep wounds, I'll list them here:
Base Deep Wounds time: 30 seconds
Deep Wounds time with Stab Wounds Study: 25 seconds
Time removed from a basic feral frenzy strike: 10 seconds
Time removed from a Frank's Mix Tape frenzy strike: 15 secondsThis tactic is more valid on franks tape and stab wound study than without. Otherwise it does still take quite a while to down people. It also can be counter played fairly easily by survivors purposefully staying closer to you or coming back at you partially mended to re-initiate the chase at which point it takes longer. I've used these same tactics as well as some you don't mention here, and I can't say that this gives the efficiency to the killer to make them anything better than maybe 3rd from the bottom, somewhere in that area.
So far the valid builds I've seen on this killer are
Whispers, bloodhound, sloppy and enduring or whatever else you want with franks and stab study using this strategy.
Similar build, could mix in some spirit fury in place of bloodhound while using cold dirst and joey's mix tape. Basically this is the tag once, run up, cancel and m1 to down. Seems about as effective.
mix in bbq and use iridescent pin and suzies mix tape to basically go for the more intended version of spreading as much deep wounds as possible while maintaining strong map control, This is probably the least viable of the descent builds I've found but it can work out fairly well still.
The problem is this killer has to rely heavily on purple add ons to be good at anything other than lower ranks. Otherwise the job just takes too long per down and results in the gens being done before you get much in the way of kills. Also, unlike the other 110 killers, he lacks tools to get close to the injured survivor efficiently while maintaining his 1 hit down capability. This means that the time to down, even if the chase goes as efficiently and perfectly as you're laying out, is the same for every down, injured or uninjured.
Against decent survivors, they'll rescue their fellow players every stage. So it's reasonable to assume without camping you'll need 12 downs to win the game. So lets say from start to finish it takes about 45 seconds or so per down, then maybe another 15 to get to the hook. So roughly 12 minutes total to win. This says nothing of the time it takes to find the survivor but we'll write that off since the survivor takes some time to find their gens. It still leaves a very lenient situation for the survivors to get the work they need to get done taken care of. The only way to lower that time is with the purple add ons and employing the strategies I've laid out.
Of course you can slow the game while doing this, but I don't believe it is often to the extent that will allow you to get your 4k's in reliably or be as good as many of the other killers.
While this strategy is fairly standard that you're showing, it does a good job of putting up a formal video showing new players one of the core legion strategies that they can employ among the other options. I do believe the key to doing well with this character (even though I do find him underpowered) is to learn the timing to employ the several different styles of chase the character has to offer. I'm actually planning on making a video on him myself, but I want to get a chance to see how the changes play into his game first.
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Yeah, I can't seem to find any info on the numbers. If I bother to lab it, is there anywhere I can report the info to so the community can benefit from it?
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@powerbats said:
@Master said:
@The_Crusader said:
Reshade is allowed 😉 and Nvidia freestyle is officially supported.If it comes down to a sneaky claudette camping for hatch, I go for them and let the other person have it whether its david or meg etc
So we are forced to use 3rd party programs in order to make ingame character skins visible.
Great designNo, good killers don't need that stuff since they have no issues finding p3 Claudettes and Adams since they know where to look. If you need 3rd party programs to find a character in game after 2 years then the issue is obviously you and not the game.
I don't buy into this logic. Nobody is saying claudette is impossible to see. Just that she has a significant advantage when you're scanning an area quickly or from a distance (obviously being as super amazing of a killer as you are you understand time is a factor here) compared to almost anyone else in the cast. Obviously map experience will teach you where the hiding spots are if you really want to comb over an area in depth and hopefully she won't sneak away while you're checking one area or another.
It is not that it is impossible to see her, it is that her color pallet grants significant camo to her that other characters are not afforded. That is how camo works in real life as well. You can't be like "Man, those soldiers must have sucked for not seeing the guy in the bushes with camo, they should have known to check there and if you have good attention to detail to THAT bush as opposed to all the other ones, you can see that he was hiding there"
So again, given the template nature of survivors, while not insurmountable, claudette, and to a lesser extent adam and tapp, have a significant advantage in hiding over other survivors in a game where stealth plays a large role.
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@Ryuhi said:
@TheDarkWall said:
Honestly, the only complaint I have with behavior is their slow implementation of balancing adjustments after confirming that he'd get one. I don't see the reason for it.He's very difficult to balance correctly. the vast majority of buffs people have requested would make him arguably nurse tier. I'm honestly really not looking forward to the wounded change if it actually goes through, its just going to reward tunneling players and reduce the already non-existent level of counterplay vs him by basically giving him a free frank's mixtape, or forcing EVERYONE to take self care.
They're going to end up too strong unless they get this update just right. Unfortunately, many of the people asking for improvements want them to play completely differently than they actually are designed to, so listening to those people can be disastrous.
I disagree with pretty much everything you said. This character is about spreading deep wounds. This means a lot of people are going to be injured but not run down to completion. It's kind of the point. But at this point, unlike other killers, there is significantly less motivation to heal against him. This is because unlike the other 110 run speed killers, using his ability to close the gap does not result in downing the opponent, but simply re-initiating the chase at this point with no difference to if they had healed. So if anything, the lacking reward this killer gets from injuring but not downing somebody rationalizes the stab wound study applied on hit.
So no, the wide spread nature of his attack patterns create a situation where you'll regularly run into injured survivors without tunneling and the damage boost is needed to give him some sort of reward for continuing the investment in assaulting a survivor who has not bothered to heal themselves over one who is healthy.
The two suggestions people are making quite a bit with him is 115 run speed and the buff to deep wounds as it applies to injured survivors. Above explains the validity to the latter. 115 run speed I think could be legit still given the extremely long drawn out nature of his chases. It wouldn't devalue his core playstyle in any way since it is pretty much about the question of investing in the normal hit or wearing them down with deep wounds. It would just make the former option more viable. This is important because as it stands he is significantly worse in time to down in a traditional chase than most any other killer without relying on purple add ons. Considering that unlike other 110 killers, the proximity gain forces him into a less lethal state, I could certainly see that as reasonable.
In the interest of being reasonable and measured in terms of balancing however, I would agree that implementing the changes one at a time to be certain to not over do it is certainly the right way to go.
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Honestly, the only complaint I have with behavior is their slow implementation of balancing adjustments after confirming that he'd get one. I don't see the reason for it.
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that is pretty disgusting
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I do believe if they just gave him 115% he'd be good but not broken. Mainly because the majority of the slower killers like hag or nurse are meant to use their abilities to get close to you. The problem is that the cooldown of his ability forces him into a situation where he can get close but the down is impossible without re-initiating a chase after they get far away again. Therefore the gap closing ends up being superficial for the most part and forces him into a playstyle that takes too long to come into fruition. Sure, occasionally you may find a situation where you can bounce off people and really slow things down to rationalize this horrid issue, but the situation is not common enough. Not to mention due to the weak duration of frenzy, if not exceedingly close people can just run away and you won't be able to close the gap before it wears off. This is why he's a bad killer. To give him normal speed would help make it so he's not as reliant on the power but can still find use for it.
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@Poweas said:
Ok this is just my opinion from my personal experiences facing/playing these killers. I have now experienced every current killer in the game and I will judge them on my experiences with how often I can 4k/ have good fun games with them. I'll suggest buffs for the ones I feel like should be buffed but that's for fun.
TOP TIER
- Nurse (Yeah, she'll probably always be first unless the devs buff the killers who have potential to be stronger than Nurse who are Spirit, Legion, Wraith -yeah this one is shocking but he does have the potential- and Hag.)
- Billy (He's very, very strong and I regret saying he was worse than Hag and Spirit, he's much better.)
- Hag (Yeah she's worse then Billy but still very powerful, can do well and have complete control over the game.)
- Spirit (So strong right now, she's amazing. I love when I use a Nurses calling and bait my phase in the opposite direction when they're healing in my terror radius and then smack them both down.)
MID TIER
- Myers (Again just either remove the cap on his stalking or just give him the ability to stalk through the whole map to make him top tier.)
- Clown (Definitely Clown for this spot. He's very strong and so good. Again, all he needs is one more base bottle or increase his slow duration on base from 2.5 to 3 seconds to make him top tier.)
- Huntress (I regret saying she was weak, she's amazing now that I've played her more often, I think she's very powerful. To make her top tier though, I honestly think her base windup time should be increased or she can get a slight buff in her reload time.)
- Wraith (He's solid OK. He's got an OK base and with addons he can dominate. To buff him I'd honestly add some more speed to his base when cloaked to maybe 160% BUT nerf his windstorm addons to not give any more values then they do right now. The ones give Wraith less than 160% movespeed like the Yellow ones, could be given slight buffs. And increase his speed burst to 1.5 seconds from 1 and he's top tier.)
- Legion (I know people say he's weak but I think he's honestly quite decent I mean he's got no counterplay and if he literally just breaks the chase he can injure 3 survivors and down one by breaking chase with the 4th guy he stabs and the guy will definitely fall down. By the time he's fell down, the other 3 are out of deep wound. Honestly to buff him, I don't have a clue what to do to buff him since I don't exactly understand how to play him.)
BOTTOM TIER
- Pig (I don't know what to do to buff her I don't understand her well.)
- Doctor (Faster shocking time, built in fake pallet auras, 115% movement speed in Treatment mode, increase his shocking distance and increase the duration of it to whatever it is right now, I think It's 2.5 seconds to 3 seconds.)
- Trapper (Let him have 3 base traps and let him reload traps at lockers. Increase his trapping speed.)
- Leatherface (Let him move as fast as Billy can when using his saw. Trust me It's not too overpowered. And let him cover at least 40m with his saw. Half the time it takes him to charge his saw and also make it more consistent when he can start using his saw. That's all he needs.)
- Freddy (I have faith that the devs will give him a nice rework to make him balanced.)
That's my ideas for buffs lol.
Imo the only real issues I see are as follows.
Pig should be between clown and huntress I'd say. Good run speed, solid surprise attack capability. The reverse bear trap is a huge time waster that can lock in a kill, helps her track via the beeping and makes the gates unable to be escaped from. Could not disagree with you more on that one.
Doctor. As a killer that penalizes the survivor through no correct play of his own (simply being near them without actually finding them or knowing much of anything), and how debilitating his abilities are, I can't see him as anything lower than mid.
Legion should be low tier, probably only above freddy. Bouncing around between survivors is not effective unless they're very close together, otherwise they will likely be able to run far enough away that frenzy wears off before you can get the multi hit. You find yourself in a situation like what you're describing very rarely against people who are not good. The various chase strategies (double hit then bleed, frenzy then cancel to standard run, pelt frenzy on the survivors back repeatedly, go once or twice and then let them escape while tracking from a distance with bloodhound) have varying degrees of effectiveness, but are all very slow. So yes, he's hard to get away from, but he's easy to drag things out with to the point where he is very bad and is in desperate need of a buff.
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@BDS22 said:
Or give the survivor that's being face camped better points because depending on when you get hooked and if early and camped as a survivor you end up walking out with crap points which is why some survivors give up or DC which then effects the rest of survivors because they can't gen "rush". Give the face camping survivors something better so they're not wasting their time.I play on PS4 and the killers I encounter majority will face camp or just go for the same survivor till they're dead then repeat. From streams I watch the PC community (killers) don't frequently do that crap. Also I mainly play solo since I don't have many friends that play this and the survivors I get majority of the time are honestly crap. Either they all get off gens to try to help someone (while I'm left trying to gen rush while they try to save the person being camped) or there's the group that I get that just wants to constantly use urban evasion not getting stuff done too scared to start gens and won't save survivors until the killer goes after someone else or they will even wait till the killer picks up another survivor. Maybe I'm just having bad luck...
As a PS4 Killer who still plays a decent amount of SWF every so often, I disagree heavily with you here. At no point having gone from low to high ranks in survivor has this ever been more than an occasional occurrence in matches. It's far from the norm to just get hard face camping.
I have no problem with camping as a strategy mind you. There are times when it's strategically wise. Like if nobody has saved a survivor on second hook and they're almost dead, or in occasional late game moments. It's a valid strategy that survivors when playing intelligently have a solid amount of counter play to, especially when in groups. This is especially true since now unhooks can be done from all angles, if anything survivors have too much counterplay to this strategy currently.
So if anything, locking down a kill should be better, not worse. But I'll settle for how it is. As many people have said already, the idea of giving survivors the edge even more here, in a game where they already are at the advantage when playing well, yeah, not really necessary.