Talmeer
Talmeer
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- Talmeer
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I think it would be a great feature and espcially beginners help to understand why they have been spotted by an killer, or why they haven't hit an survivor and so on.
Also it could help to bugfix this game, because we could send the devs then the replays with bugs. Same for reports. If someone had use an exploit - bhvr could direct see it then in the game.
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@PapiQuentin_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142628#Comment_1142628
Old Legion got changed cause he was super exploitable and had no counterplay.
"The game is survivor sided"
The new Legion had also an exploit, even if it got not called an exploit but imo - to oneshot someone in a specific situation with a killer that has no vital attack while he uses his special abilitie is an exploit.
Still they were be able to fix this exploit without changing the current playstyle of the Legion. So, that shows, they can fix exploits without changing a killer if they want it and the Legion had counterplay if we take specific situations by side.
And also devs said that they changed him because he was unfun to play against. This sentence is not my invention - he got said several times by the devs.
And that means, that he got changed because a part of the survivor playerbase has dislike him. You don't need to be Einstein, to come then to the conclusion that this was maybe a survivor sided decision.
You know... Everytime survivors crowd up to nerf a killer, or a killer abilitie they have maybe success then with what they wanted to see, but they also wake up the people that were silent until then. As someone who was happy - I had no reason to be mad at bhvr. But in the moment they had put this rework to life, they had give me a reason to be mad about them and that is just 1 example.
We can the same also say about other killers and their abilities.
Some survivors maybe think that they can cry all day for a nerf, without any disadvantage - but the more they do it - the bigger the disadvantage will be for them. Because people and parts of the playerbase that have never raise their voice before, start then to do it, because bhvr makes their gaming time to a very unfun experience.
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The game is and will stay for me as survivor sided, because they nerfed my loved main killer for the reason "unfun to play against" (aka. for teh survivors) until they change that and ->he makes fun to play again, also for the people that have use him for more as the ordinary m1 playstyle.<-
How many general things they change in the time between, or how many other killers they buff, or survivor things they nerf in the time between I don't care, because I still have not with my choosen main the same fun as before, because he was "unfun to play against".
Until then I see every 4k post just as a troll post, because it is besides the point for me.
Edit: I should explain that 4kn are not the thing that is important for me to have fun. If I do it while I have fun, its ok, but I couldn't really care less about that.
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@Big_Trash_Panda said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/135226/id-hate-every-single-david-on-this-game
You hate him cause you ain't him. What a sexy beast.
-Would he be a shirtless female that would look like a female, we could potentially talk about that :). ... :P
I assume, the most have just something aginst him, because they are usually tryhards after my killer experience.
They are not dangerous in any way. They usually don't do anything for gens going down faster as usual, they are not better as all the other survivors in looping, but by god... They will always try to get your attention. That leads me to the assumption, that David players maybe have a attention deficit disorder in general.
And when you give them the attention they are the offended in the endgame chat "Uh why you have tunnel me? Uh why you have mori me?" Because I can ffs.
Besides, would dbd be real and I would be a survivor, I would stick in the group of Claudette, Jeff, Kate or Dwight.
Being tryhard is the fastes way to meet the graveyard. Usually.
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If you hate Davids watch the short Legion trailer. I promise you will like the trailer :).
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I have hear a lot of the survivors rule book. Less from the killer roolbook, but I know it exist. I have never bother me with just 1 of them. That doesn't mean that I am ok with everything I have seen by killers or survivors.
But as long as no one uses bugs or exploits to its advantage and is not insulting in the endgame chat, I am ok with it. Of course some things are cheap in my eyes and if I see them, I think then that this survior or killer needed those specific perks (as example) to survive a match for a lack of skill, but that is then just what I think and not say.
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No one. Ok, I am a Legion main, but if you have ever seen someone in frenzy in rl, you know - no one.
That are typical the type of people were you need 3-5 guys for + 1 with a premedication. I get were the thought come from, but in rl, there are no stuns. The only hope you can have is, to stay on both legs until they are exhausted.
Not even mentioned the knife. Something that can be pretty dangerous in the right hands, but I assume it was without it in mind, anyways?
David should scream after the Trapper. He looks pretty tough :).
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1133811#Comment_1133811
I meant something like this:
Map voting phase takes 30 seconds
Every survivior gets 1 token, killer gets 4 tokens.
Every token placed REDUCES the chance of this REALM appearing by 25%
So basically, each team can BAN 1 REALM
Mhm. That sounds interesting. At least interesting enough for a ptb and later then maybe for the game.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1133786#Comment_1133786
I wish we got map voting already. RNG with this many maps is a joke
I am not sure, if that would be a help for public matches. I assume that then many survivors would only vote the maps, were they have feeled the most advantage and with 4 voices, they will always have more as the killer.
Would be more worse as now, I guess.
I mean, I really like Ormond. The snow, the building in the middle that remains me on some parties were I was part of and it is home to my nr.1 killer(s), but... I would not need to see it in every second match or so.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/133601/pls-look-into-this-frustrating-issue
Map offering is the most toxic thing in the game, just dont bring them
Sometimes, you just need to get rid of them. That said, I get in feeled 60%+ of my matches the corn or clown map anyways. My heart jumps and crys yes, if it sees in one of the feeled rar matches The Game or Ormond and I play usually killer^^.
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I don't think that tbagging survivors at the gates are a problem.
Usually they knew who is boss. That is why they doing it shortly before they can safley run away and not in the middle of the map without second changes perks. Also sometimes they doing it because they wanna say thanks. So that you can hit them one last times for more points.
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I am sure that any kind of killer nerf will shorten survivor lobby times.
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.
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...Well... Not really, but go on. I am not a survivor main and so I don't have to struggle with any kind of lobby times that going worse and worse and... yes... worse... Some survivors must really enjoy their time in the lobby <- My personal theory.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1131486#Comment_1131486
To be fair, the Legion Infinite Mending Bug was gamebreaking. The Wake Up-Bug (I think this is what you are referring too) was not gamebreaking (even tho, people who used it are disgusting).
@Topic:
As Killer, I see most of the Changes justified. If I would have to say something, panic when the initial Freddy was released so that he ended up being the worst Killer. Even tho, they "corrected" it, but now he is braindead IMO.
Also they might have went too far with Legion back in the days, the most what was asked for was the removal of Franks Mixtape and the removal of the Moonwalk Exploit. But eh, I dont know if you can count Legion, he was always bad, even in his initial State.
Ruin Nerf was something nobody really asked for, and I couldnt care less personally, because Ruin was never really a problem for me, but to make meaningful changes to the gameplay, Ruin needed to be gone.
For Survivors, quite a lot of things are not justified:
BL Nerf--> Sorry, I will stay at my opinion, the Nerf was not necessary. The Maps which were the strongest with old BL are still not enjoyable at all to play as Killer. Sure, someone cannot loop me at the Myers House for Ages, but they still have those way too long fences to work with... Sure, someone cannot jump out of the second Floor of the Asylum, but with two strong Windows and 4 safe Pallets, this is not really needed anyway. Unjustified Nerf to a balanced Perk, IF the Maps would have been designed around it (like doorways on top of the Myers House instead of Windows, as an example).
Breakable Walls-->Poorly implemented. And its the same as with Balanced Landing: Those Spots were a breakable Wall will be justified should be changed anyway. It is lazy gamedesign, nothing more. Sure, you can fix God Windows with that, but at the expense that Structures which are playable become useless for Survivors or braindead for Killers. And if the Devs want to fix God Windows with that, why even put a breakable Wall there? Close the God Window when it is RNG-based and if not, put a Doorway next to it. Why should the Killer even have to spend time to remove a God Window?
Loss of Add Ons for Survivors-->The common justification for the bigger BP Gain for Killers was that they lose their Add Ons - this is fair, in my opinion. They get more BPs, because they can fill their Categories all during the Trial (e.g. Brutality will increase with Hunting and most likely Deviousness as well, resulting in Sacrifice Points) and have easier access to Bonus BP with BBQ (and the amount is WAY larger than what a Survivor can earn - BP wise a good Survivor game is an average Killer game, given the fact that it is easier to double those BPs, it is ok that Add Ons get lost after a Trial). However, how will the Bigger BP gain be justified, when Survivors lose their Add Ons? They have Items AND Add Ons, way more than Killer so that it is harder to get a specific Add On, while useless Add Ons keep piling up.
Basically, escaping will be a net loss in BPs, because two Add Ons will cost at least 6k BP, while Escaping only gives 5k BP.
Since the MoM-Nerf got mentioned: If you want to keep the Core Design of the Perk (removing damage from a Hit), it has to be weak. This is a strong effect, the MoM-Nerf only looks that drastic because it was overbuffed to give a reason to players to buy the Ash-DLC, if they dont care for completion or Ash himself.
If the Legion rework had one good thing, then that the exploiters got banned, imo.
Still it lets a bad taste in your mouth left, if you seeing it only happen on this scale to the playerbase of your beloved character. But, well... let us not go off topic because of it.
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Thats easy on killer side: Legion no other killer got so extrem and unjustified nerfed. Also the Legion player base was the only one - far as I know - that had face a ban-campaign against them. While survivors could shortly after exploit thx to a bugged perk and getting not banned. What a coincidence^^.
I was never a true survivor player, but after all I have read... Many survivors seem to be still upset about the infinite changes. Can't say much to it, because it was before my time.
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@Talmeer said:
As first, three things out:
-Her name is not fixed but since I am pretty bad at actual finding names, I have just use this one.
-This will not be a ordinary m1 killer and it is not intended to be one.
-I will not go into perks or addons, since well... I am mostly interested into the basekit of the characters.
So now let us come finally to the killer:
I imagine this killer as a ghost-like character. She should be very hard to see besides her shady outlines. Her "walking" (better floating) speed should be same as, or maybe a bit faster as the one from the Nurse.
Besides her look, she will come with 3 things that will distinguish her from the other killers:
1) She is be able to teleport herself into a survivor*. If she did this, she will disappear from the map and the killer-player will lose his control about her.
2) While she is "inside" the survivor, the survivor has to do immediately a number of skill checks, like he would heal himself or repair a generator.
If he succed, the Damsel will be "throw out" of his body and the killerplayer has again control above her. However, everytime the killer player does this with one survivor, the survivor loses a bit of his "mental health" and the next time this happens again - the skill checks will be going harder for him.
If the survivor fails, the same happens like above, just that the survivor loses even more mental health and jumps direct to point 3, no matter how many mental health he has left.
3) If a survivor loses all of his mental health, or fails at the skillchecks, the killerplayer will be able to control the survivor!
In this time the killer player need then as survivor, to hit another survivor in 15 secs or so (for the time he controls the survivor/also a knife will spawn in the hands of this survivor after he is controlled). Did he this 3 times succesfull, the survivor he has overtaken will count as "broken".
If a survivor is in the "broken" status, he will be in the same status as would he hang on a hook (so yes, the damsel has no need for hooks like we know them).
However, if a survivor is in the broken status, his icon in the gui will change and survivors can see, how he struggle with the knife in his hands, to kill himself. Also he can't move anymore.
Now has another survivor 30 secs or so, to rescue this survivor. For this, he need to walk to this survivor and do a skill check based "revive" or however we want to kall this.
In this time, the damsel can't attack the 2 interacting survivors (for balancing reasons).
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So this is it basicly. What did you say guys?
It is a attempt from me to bring a fresh breeze into dbd. Ah and yes... The numbers and all that... The exact numbers would need to be tested on a ptb. So that the damsel is not helpless, but also not op.
Anyways, I wish everyone a great day!
*From a near distance. Thats food for the ptb.
This would I create and I would be happy with it. Finally something different to a m1 killer.
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I have only 1 killer really main, because I believe that to be focused on just 1 matter will always be better as someone to try to be perfect in everything possible.
That said, I have also other killers and even survivors play, but my gametime with them is not comparable to the 1 killer I have main.
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I am already semi-away.
After the Legion rework I had a long time not play dbd. After the frenzy patch I had come back, but the inactivity of the devs have bring me back to just playing 1-2 times/month. I think, I will take another break soon.
Some devs have argue about the Legion rework with the fun of the people that play against him. Thats nice, but whats with the fun of the people that play them?
I have waited long for some effect like in the movie "life is brian" when the people discover there, that you can read books, after you have open one first, -to use this analogy... But it seems really hopeless. They are stuck in their believe that everybody loves to be a m1 killer and that they have done something great with the rework for ->every<- player. Or maybe they think they can ignore this group of players.
Either way, as long as this problem exists, its another nail in the coffin of dbd and I have just not the endurance anymore to wait on the day where they discover that the old Legion mains also like to have fun (if they ever discover it, we may see a scene then how in the life is brian, just not about books, then about killer fun).
If they would fix this 1 issue, I would be willing to stay in the game with all the crap that you have to endure as killer in this game, but without something that makes fun? Its hard, man.
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@gatsby said:
I run Open Handed+Kindred in Red Rank games so I get +50% more range around the Hooks. And all that combo has done is make me realize that most Killers don't leave the area around the hook. Even Rank 1 Killers do it. They might kick gens or break pallets nearby, but they rarely actually leave.
We're at the point where Killers have an easier time slowing down the game by preventing saves than guarding generators. Getting a hook where the Killer is out of the 24m Kindred Range only happens if the Killer is running Discordance or Thrilling to know exactly which gen to go to. (Or they're a nurse with range add-ons and Make Your Choice going afk waiting to snipe the save and abuse the mechanics)
The majority of my games go like this:
1 Corrupt Intervention
2 Killer Patrols Open Gens to get a chase
3 Unlucky teammate goes down.
4 Three Gens pop around the time of the Hook
5 The Killer proxy camps
6 Game devolves into hook trading and slugging
7 The game ends like that.
7.5 Or teammates realize that the Killer is proxy camping, finish the gens. And the game ends with 2-3 people dying because they want Benevolent points and feel bad leaving people behind. 1-2 people escape through the Gate because the Killer has no interest in chasing someone away from the Hook/Slug
Why is the nurse thing mentioed as "abuse". It seems for me a clever way.
As a killer I go not to survivors and say they "abused" the game mechanics because they used a toolbox, or flashlight (bugged flashlights are not included in this line^^).
Sometimes I read here really strange things...
But btt: The objective of the killer is to kill and the most killers have not the map pressure to really hold the survs away from the gens. Often the killers with the best map pressure have not the necessary map pressure, for this high level of map control.
But what every killer has in the most games is the knoweldge that the average survivor will try to save his fellow survivor. No matter the circumstances and that can be a powerful tool.
Edit: And that means proxy camping is not always a bad thing for a killer.
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I assume they continue to work on the mm.
I hope however, that they also start to make killer-play of certain killers more fun to play.
Edit: Would also be a type of mm fix, if we like to say so :).
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I have many great memories. It is hard to choose for me one.
... Mhm... Maybe...
1 time I had run into a 4 pack of survivors as a pre patch Legion. I couldn't first believe my luck and I bet, I had a totally "lolwut" face in that moment.
They were all 4 together crouching through the map.
After I had discover them, I had me feel like a shark that has gone rampage. Those poor survivors, but comon... How often you have something like that for you as killer? <- To my defence! :).
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A few maps could get some bigger or minor changes (depending on the map).
My major problem is that killers often feel stripped down to their abilities. As would they just be designed after some statistics, while nobody seems to think on the fun of the player who is playing them (right who is playing them and not play against them).
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Pig. I had a handful of times play her thanks to red offerings and everytime I had 4k and I had fun while doing it.
The last point is missing by the most other killers for me currently (besides Ghostface and the Legion because of my memories of them).
Maybe that's a sign to buy finally the pig :).
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I would like to see the one loop gone were a car stays for a garage and something for it. I believe it was a trashcan. A pallet is also on the other side of the car. It is for me the most annoying loop in the whole game :).
By every other loop you know that you either will get the surv, or that you can give up and move to a other part of the map. But this loop has far too often trick me that I can get there a surv, while it was too time wasting for me.
Also the stairs in the basement should be fixed.
You can't hit there a survivor, even if he is in range, as long as you stay on the stairs while the survivor is running away towards the pallet behind the stairs, or the lockers in the room behind it.
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@samination said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1125018#Comment_1125018
But they do listen. It's just there are so many voices/opinions (usually conflicting).
As the book Significant Zero says, "Fans are wonderful and should always be embraced, but their opinions can be deadly to the creative process.
Fandom is an organized religion whose holy laws are handed down by people who get angry on the internet. By defining what something should and should not be, fans secure ownership over that which they love. When their passion informs rather than inspires, it becomes a millstone around a creator's neck.
Their job is not to give players what they want; but to show them things they never imagined."
Well, maybe not the best quote one can pick up :).
It can be interpreted as one sided or exaggerating.
But that is a positive thread and I like to stay positive. This forums show us enough opportunities to write different opinions.
So I stay by my words. I like the lore and I appreciate the artstyle of the dbd team. Especially in times where so many games set on the anime artstyle (I just prefer here the more "realistic" western style).
And also as already mentioned is kates song great. I would actually enjoy to listen, to a full (just the guitar without a voice) song of it, instead to a X minutes repeater where just someone has copy the jingle over and over again.
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@samination said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1124961#Comment_1124961
What do you even mean by "I have seen a lot of constructive criticism ignored"? I'm going to need examples as I've read many positive threads on this forum before. Some ideas have just been mentioned to death and maybe that's why they are ignored, but these forums don't make you a developer for the game. I would say 99% have no clue on how to make a game, or make this game better. In the end, it's their game and they know more than us. We can make suggestions, but doesn't mean it's good or that they must implement them. I have no issue against suggesting, but accusing them of ignoring is highly subjective.
Look, I am going to sleep in 20 minutes and so I don't like to write a wall of text now and I am also not in the mood right now to repeat myself, but you can't denie that in the forums are often to find good concepts and/or ideas.
Of course it is their game and of course they make with it what they want. But I wouldn't say that devs always knew what is best. Also for this we have examples (a lot). As example: The devs from "Anthem" have thought, I bet, that they make a game that everybody would like to play, but unsurpringsly for many people - it wasn't this kind of game.
If you "produce" something (I use this word on purpose very lossly), you often think that you work on the best thing in the world, because all your work goes in this, all your thoughts and sweat. Sadly that can some people make blind for the thing that other people would like to see.
And so it is not wrong imo, to give from time to time feedback as user and to listen as dev.
That doesn't mean that everything needs to be implemented what the users say, but sometimes it would imo good for dbd if some ideas would find an open ear, because if we just look at dbd itself - it is a great game, with a great concept and also lore behind it.
The most people complain not because they hate the game, the most do it because they like or even love it.
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@samination said:
Mob mentality? Some people have their own narrative that can easily block out anything that doesn't fit. Another reason could be that our brains reward negative emotions. Being mean, bullying, showing off, and verbally attacking others ALL display dominant behavior. In other words: They don't think, they just react. That is how we are wired.
It takes actual effort and self control to be positive and say constructive/helpful things. This is why you will always see about 90% thoughtless comments.
You can learn to control your emotions, be more mindful and try to refrain from making dominant displays. This will lead you to think rather than react which in turn will give you more options in which to respond.
I have seen a lot of constructive critism ignored, or at least until now.
I found myself writing more sensless things in the forums, because it makes no sense to repeat yourself a feeled 1k times. Still the people (me included) like to make their point of view clear.
Alone to let the problems not be forgotten. Would bhvr finally do something I hoping for, I would be the first - or one of the firsts - to write a big "thank you" thread.
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As a killermain I have never really struggle with bps.
But I am also not the type of guy who needs to have a million bps each day. Still I have my doubts that bps would be a long term help. Maybe for a short amount of weeks after such a patch got released, but not much more time.
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Well. Also Kates Song is nice like her :). I often listen to it on YouTube (search with "dead by daylight Kates Song") when I need to collect my thoughts.
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Yes. The lore is great.
I also think that players sometimes judge too hard the differences between the killers. I mean, if we look at the movies, there are also running just a handful of archtypes of killers around.
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@Codela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1121819#Comment_1121819
I think I get what you're saying and that you're coming from an open-minded place, but I believe that getting crucial information from only specific-killer and survivor mains is the worst idea a developer can do in order to get information or input on how to balance the game. It's kind of as if you'd ask extremist niche-groups of parties about their ideas on how to run and govern a given country. Both survivor and killer mains are per definition subjected to their own subjectivity and partisanship, hence the term "main".
You'd have to ask players who play as killer and as survivor equally in order to get the most nuanced and impartial feedback and/or new players and their feeling about the game since their perspective and perception is highly unfiltered.
Thank you for the kind words. I try to be open minded, far as I can. I have learn on the hard way that it is necessary imo to pick a side in those forums. Still I try always to think on both.
It's almost like in a jail here imo :). If you just running around alone, bad things can happen^^.
What you say is true, but I would never also wash the opinions of the mains just away.
I mean, they have potencially the most knoweldge and they will also always be the ones that have to life most with those changes. A survivor is maybe upset about killer xyz, but in the next match he will already see a other killer. The same can we say about survivor perks, if they are not really far spread like some are today.
All for what I hope is, that they don't forget the people who actually would like to play a specific character before they drastically change him.
Small buffs or nerfs for something I find much better imo. Like we have seen it for the Trapper (if it goes live), or also the Pig. The pig nerfs were maybe hard, but they were better as a complete rework with even more annoying drawbacks on top of it.
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@siren_sorceress said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1121618#Comment_1121618
I anticipated you bringing that up. But, you really can't compare surv reworks to killer reworks. All survs really have is the base game mechanics and perks. Every new killer can drastically change the balance of the match. That's why the game is so hard to balance. Some killers can destroy anybody (billys) and some can barely do anything (LF).
What new add ons and items? The wedding ring? :p. Most items have been nerfed on the surv side or have changed every once n awhile. Bnps and insta heals and insta blinds have all been hard nerfed.
Idk how killers can not agree with what happened to legion. He was released in a really terrible state. His design was brokenly stupid. It sucks but it had to happen. Hell eventually get a rework just like freddy did who is now s tier. You have how many killers to play instead? I just dont think that's a fair comparison at all. There are so many killers that add to the never ending variables that they have to consider when balancing them.
And nurse. I mean most people by 2018 werent investing in her anyways so I admit her nerf was kinda random and not needed but the ones that did play her well, like cmon. Nurse was broken af lol.
This is why I have a hard time sympathizing with killer mains. They are never honest about their own side's problems. But I see plenty of survs admit surv issues. I rarely ever see a killer ready to have an honest conversation. I'm not personally attacking you to be clear. Just my overall frustration when talking to killer mains.
-My opinion as a killer and Legionmain is, that the Legion was a "bit" broken. I say a bit, because the exploits needed to be fixed and some addons needed a rework, without any doubts. All what had gone above that was too much. In videos you have often got a wrong image of the Legion because there were so many people out there, that had always play them with the exploits, or the op addons.
But I as a guy who had him play as main, can say to you, that the killrate of the Legion to pre patch times from 20-30% was nothing surprising for me, because besides the exploits and the op addons had the Legion to that time not much to offer, besides one important thing that even the today Legion can not offer anymore: Fun!
If you need evidence for my words: Just show me 1 op pre patch Legion video without exploits or op addons. Because I am a friendly guy, I say it directly to you: Don't waste your time searching it. Such a video did not exist for reasons.
-I guess you are right that balancing dbd must be a nightmare. I don't doubt that. The more important is it imo that the devs listen to the experts of the thing they like to change and that are the mains. In case of the Legion, the Legion mains. In case of survivor releated topics, the survivors who know best about the stuff the devs like to work on.
What would be wrong on it, if the devs would have asked: "Hey look Legion-mains, by the Legion is this and this a problem... How should we solve the problem on the best way?", Or: "Hey survivor mains, we need to change perk X, how would be the best way to do it?"
Of course, they have not to 100% to do it then on the way, the killer/survivor mains say it to them, but they should keep their words and maybe warnings in mind.
Would the devs have had listen to the Legion mains as example, we would today not have this discussion. Of course, after the rework some threads would have been up, but they would have had slowly die out. But because the devs have not care for the people that play this character the most, we have a ongoing discussion until the devs do finally something right (whenever that will be).
-I can not use a other killer and have the same fun as before, as with the Legion. The Legion was the reason why I have bought this game and even if we forget this - there is no other killer in the game that allows the player to fast-multistab survivors. Would I be a m1 killer lover, I would be happy now. The problem is, I am not such a guy and imho should a game everything do that is possible, to keep its customers happy.
-I had never main the Nurse. Just do sometimes a few matches for the dailies, but the Nurse mains seem to be pretty fed up about her changes.
I think it is not bad if strong killers like her exist (pre patch), as long as we have so many weak killers in the game. Would that not be the case... Would I nothing say from my more... casual knowing of the Nurse.
@siren_sorceress I think we have similar mindset. We coming just from the opposit side. Don't see my posting please as a rant. It is just a explanation how at least I and maybe also others see it.
Btw. the generator thing was just to make you thinking. I doubt that bhvr would ever do it and in my eyes it would also not be necessary, but without a doubt, I believe that survivors would go then rampage in the forums and would be really annoyed by this new "gameplay mechanics".
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@siren_sorceress said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110466#Comment_1110466
Remember how little the first killer mains asked for? All they wanted gone was pallet vacuum, more hooks, remove infinites and nerf self care and sprint burst.
The devs have given them all that and so much more but they continue to cry about everything from face camping with traps under hooks to body blocking the baement stairs.... it truely amazes me how ignorantly killer mains will claim the devs are surv bias when I've seen them meet their demands. It's very obvious the devs care about both sides even if they do things poorly... ik ruin was a big hit but I have no doubt the devs will rework the game accordingly so that killers dont HAVE to bring ruin every game. The perk kinda sucked for everybody and it's amazing how much ruin dictated if a killer won or not.
Im pretty sure at this point the devs take the killers complaints with a grain of salt (kek) considering they have shown their best interests tend to be only for themselves. I have seen far more survs consider balance changes for killers than vice versa.
You miss 2 points:
-In the time inbetween, Survivors have got new toys (perks, items and so on). The first killers would as example have never been able to complain about mettle of man, because it had not exist in the early days. That said, I would have had no problem with any survivor perk, if not point two would happen on a regulary bases:
-Killers often get changed very hard. Imagine survivors would have gotten on the same way nerfed as the Legion with the rework. Imagine, that you as survivor get every time a stun, if you miss a skill check and oh yes... Imagine you get always a half hour feeled stun after you have use your gen repair ability and also that gen repairs from now on take 5+ minutes to repair, for each one of them. Just to comapre something to the cutted down dw abilitie.
Would you be happy if bhvr would solve the gen rushing problem on the way how I have name an example here?
I bet survivors would flood the forums and start to complain until the devs have undone their changes, or they simply would left the game for forever.
And I have here yet just talk about the Legion. I have not even mentioned the Nurse and other possible things, the devs can screw up in the feature.
Edit: And now I need my first coffee at the morning I have gotten to grumpy :|.
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Maybe the patch goes live, soon (Blizzard soonish) :D.
Sorry... I couldn't resist :|.
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@Codela said:
@Vetrathene What makes you think that looping is an exploit? :o
Far as I have read about it, was looping not planned by the devs.*
Depending on your point of view, you can see it as exploiting. Or as a feature, born from a surprising ingame behaviror of the survivors (for at least the devs).
*I am maybe wrong here. If that is real, then whas it long before I have started playing dbd.
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Well, thank you then @oxygen and @FearedbytheGods .
I had thought that those would be one of the last infintes in the game, because people call them often so. A little bit deeper insight is always appreciated.
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@FearedbytheGods said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118424#Comment_1118424
I remember 8 second self cares, I remember pallet vacuums, I remember double window shack, I remember old DS, I remember how fast gens used to be, I remember 90 degree fast vaults, I remember old BNP, and I remember everything else that came during the dark ages.
Right, that ties in with all the nerfs I mentioned.
Survivors used to be pretty much impossible to catch, and now they're not, but to this day they STILL control the momentum of the game and won't ever admit it.
And yet killers, myself included still made rank 1 back in the day. It was hard but even back then there were techniques to manage the sabo jakes and infinite runners. If a killer can provide enough map pressure, they control the momentum of the game, its not all or nothing, its just nuanced. If they can't or the survivor abilities are greater, they control the flow. It comes down to killer ability, survivors ability, map, perks, luck etc etc that's a better conversation to have as far as 'momentum of the game' is concerned.
I'm not even going to touch on that 70% (Freddy only) kill rate you cited, because those stats are problematic.
That's at all ranks, if you look at red ranks, the kill rate for all killers is around 70% which is better to focus on because that's your long term 'end game' player base and according to the devs, their focus point. At lower ranks you're having conversations about casual players and ease of access. You can say the data is problematic, but its better than half the 'because I say so' posts on this forum which are tied into a 'group think' mentality.
People being unwilling to see that most complaints from the killer side comes from how the game feels.
But the changes to stuff like healing, insta heals or BNP is nothing compared to Ruin
You kind of lost me here. You want to sight the all ranks data while saying survivors control the momentum of the game but then complain about ruin change? New survivors couldn't manage skill checks, let alone understanding 'hex' and 'cleanse' which resulted in 4k after 4k.
This is why its better to focus on 'problematic' data and move from there, rather than straight from your feels.
Nurse was a broken killer to begin with, breaking all the survivors survive mechanics and was introduced to counter infinites (which are now gone). Nurse should never have been released, its current state is fine.
Yeah, survivor has gotten harder in some ways.
The point is that swf and the devs thinking survivors would play 'sneaky sneak' at release is what created the nerf train, due to their 2 escape, 2 survive metric. The problem recently is that tribalistic killers haven't had to deal with any major push back, so they've lost their collective mind being unable to deal with it. But this is the devs failing to manage their community, the killer response is entirely predictable. The devs created an expectation over time, once that expectation changed, we see an innate human response.
Lastly, if the devs want to shoot for a "2 escape/2 death" balance then they need to actually reward killers for that scenario. Especially considering that survivors get rewarded even when they die, but once you're out of the baby ranks a 2k is treated like a loss.
100% agree. They've changed this a little over time but the focus on a 4k rather than a 'good game' for everyone is part of the reason this community is so toxic.
After my experiences are infintes not gone. I mean, maybe I am wrong here.
I have started to play dbd shortly after the Legion got released because I wanted to play them, because I have found the idea of a stabbing killer appealing.
So, I have never seen something from before that time.
But if I think on the map (my name memories are terrible), with this huge fabric in the middle and the window on the right side after the entrance in the south of it, then it feels for me as would infinites still exist (as example, there are also other similar parts in other maps).*
Thats not a rant from me to that topic, just my thoughts about it.
Edit: *You can baiscly give up to hunt a survivor if he jumps through this window, if you are not a Nurse, or if he is not the last survivor living.
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Bodyblocking.
I hate it.
I mean, I play the most times fair. I use no op perks. I don't face camp. I play most times nice and still in very rar cases some survivors try to stay between me and a hook.
At this moment they turning to my nr.1 target for me and I stop playing nice.
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@FearedbytheGods said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117526#Comment_1117526
Fair point, sounds like we should introduce infinites again based off your standards.
I think they coming maybe anyways back, to give breaking walls more value. Can't know it yet for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised.
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@FearedbytheGods said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117428#Comment_1117428
EDIT: Not sure how to link BrendanLeeT into this post.
Thanks for the link.
But you need a qualifier around that.
Nurse is worst 'overall', but part of that would be due to the hard to master aspect of playing nurse.
At red ranks nurse is still around 65% kill rate, which low compared to other killers but still higher that the 2 kill, 2 survive metric. But honestly at this stage and given the constant nerd rage I see from killers, it seems like they want 1 escape 3 kills.
It's also worth mentioning that, at release, nurse was considered a broken killer, anyone remember 72hrs? Anyway he talked about how nurse broke all the mechanics used by survivors to survive. I suspect nurse was designed to counter infinites that were in the game, REAL infinites too, not the pseudo-infinites we have nowadays. But killers still complained.
So infinites were removed and we were stuck with nurse.
Nurse is an average killer? Good, it should never have been introduced to begin with.
You should never say something like "Good, it should never have been introduced to begin with.".
Sry, but every killer and every survivor game mechanic has its "fans" and while we as users can curse the one or other thing, dbd as companie should try to make every group happy.
And no, I am not a nurse main, nor I am a tryhard killer.
In... I bet... 50-60% of my matches I let the survivors go no matter how easy the final kill would be. It is just... If you like to have a healthy community, you need to give everyone something to play with and the best is, if those things are different to each other.
And to say it clear, the nurse is one of those different things.
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@FearedbytheGods said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117405#Comment_1117405
Last stat info I saw had all killers around the 70% mark, some lower, some higher. I have no doubt that the nurses numbers have dropped since the nerf.
Can you upload the latest stats or provide a link?
@Peanits said:
Stats are back at last! We've taken some time to gather some data and make some fancy graphs for your viewing pleasure. Be sure to let us know if you'd like to see more regular stat releases in the future! Since it has been a while since we last shared stats, these graphs show data from the past three months unless otherwise stated. Please keep in mind that numbers are not everything; there are a whole bunch of factors that could influence these numbers.
Note: If you're having trouble viewing the charts, clicking on them will open a larger version.
Killer power vs. popularity
Starting off with how frequently killers are played compared to how well they tend to do on average. A 50% kill rate would be the equivalent of two survivors dying and two survivors escaping.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/230/KSPIKOCTC8RD.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/910/6KD3I8P3L1V9.png
Maps
We went ahead and checked which three maps are safest and which three are the most dangerous.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/275/ZYOLAR28JADQ.png
Mid-chapter 3.3.0: Outcome
The Nurse was changed in the last mid-chapter patch, and we've been keeping an eye on her performance since then. Below, we've listed her performance on PC before and after the changes, both in all ranks and in red ranks. Like the charts above, the numbers shown here are her kill rates (where 50% means two survivors escape and two die).
Nurse is the worst killer in the game at the moment.
Then comes:
-Demothing (surprise at least for me)
-Clown (no surprise)
-Huntress (she is pretty powerful, but hard to master imo)
-Then Legion (I know Plague is actual down of the Legion, but I think she will be doing better after the ptr patch and so I don't see her anymore there)
That are the 5 worst killers if we look at the statistics.
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I can understand why some people think that this forum is killersided - the most communitys are outright survivor sided. Sometimes are insults from survivors towards killers there are even celebrated.
From this toxic point of view is everything that falls not in this extrem worldview the "enemie".
If this forums would be so much killer sided, the game itself would be more killer sided. But the truth is that killermains have here to beg for months, or even years, to get small and tiny changes like that Trappers traps can't be sabotaged, or the Legion can vault fast again, while survivors getting a ton of second changes perks and have now a game were they mostly only need to repair gens.
Thought always that would be heaven for some survivors, but no... they still complaining :|.
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What have so many players something against the rift?
I love it as a story loving guy. Of course some of the tasks are very well... Not that good, but the concept itself - I like.
Also nobody needs to do them. The bp gain is in this game is anyways high enough if you give yourself a bit time and not try to build rome in day.
... So... Its imo a feature that brings fun for one side and the other can totally ignore it.
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Criminals?
That has honestly someone write? :D
So... then I am a criminal. Just let me put a Eminem song now on my ghettoblaster and put some other clothes on... And ah yes... Learn some crazy hand signals :D.
Some guys really don't understand and respect, that in every game after a certain playercount, different groups exist and those have usually not the same opinion.
Also the boring argument is pro maaan^^. I mean in times were 90% of all survivors use 1 of a handfull of perks, most survivors holding in a game just m1 and more and more killers become m1 killer - something that leads to the same chasestyle over and over again.
Aka. ->current gameplay<- "boring" becoming more and more your name.
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The game forces even killers to 3-4k if they like to rank up. A 2k just lets your stay on your current rank.
Not saying that ranking up is a good idea, that said. From 20-5 its fun. After 5 you running in sweaty games with no end in sight imo.
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Better it stays this way. Then at least can we hope that bhvr does not change it for "balance" reasons. If I think on their other Legion changes, it stays better this way. Sorry I am just too scpetical.
In the time between I am happy to have something usefull against bodyblockers - the for me most toxic guys that can this game possible offer to a player like me^^.
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I don't think it is wrong if someone is a survivor or killer main, as long, as he don't lie about it. So wheres your problem thread starter?
Besides, I as example as killer main have not ask for survivor nerfs *trys to remember... no*. Sure I have sometimes say that I am bored by the one or other thing or see it as toxic, but that doesn't mean that it need to be nerfed. It just means that xyz is boring for me or toxic in my eyes.
Also I have ask for survivor perk-buffs.
Does that now destroy your view on the world, if a killermain asks for survivor perk buffs (even if it is for I need to admit selfish reasons)?
But I need to admit, I see here a lot killer nerf threads from time to time... Just to be baity too :P... :).
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A little fun fact on the side:
If the devs had do to pre patch times, what Legion mains said to this time, we wouldn't have today this discussion.
The exploits would have been fixed, a number of addons either changed, or deleted and of course some survivors would still crying, but they do it anyways how we see also on clown, huntress and leatherface nerf threads - aka. it has nothing to say.
What the thread matters: I don't care if bhvr does it with a number of buffs/changes, or a rework but I like to have my fun back with this killer, on the same level as before.
How they can do it, I doesn't know, but I also don't need to know it, because I was one of the Legion mains that had warn them for a situation like this. They have the mess now and now I wait that they one day are couraged enough to clean it up.
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In my opinion needs nothing be nerfed.
No killer abilites. No killer, or survivor perks. No survivor abilities. No nothing.
Just a few maps need to be reworked, maybe some new game modes to keep the game interesting and then the major thing:
Some things need be buffed.
As example: Every killer should be nearly on the same killrate and if we remember the last killrate stats - there is a lot to do.
I hope that the devs have not only just the stats in mind if they are working on this issue - I hope they have also the fun in mind of the mains from the killer they currently working on.
Edit: And before we forget it: Some survivor perks should also be buffed. So that the default survivor can choose from more perks as the usual ones, everybody knows from the matches (and is probably bored of).
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1114119#Comment_1114119
I can understand your frustration, it must really suck to hear peple only complain about something you like.
I used to play dbd a lot at that time, so I was always in red ranks, maybe that was the reason for the builds I saw.
Can be. I had make a short visit in the red ranks to rank 4. Then I decided... That was not fun anymore and so I depiped.
I stay since then most times from green ranks to purples on purpose. Matches there are most times not so sweaty and the survivors are often less toxic imo.
As example I had to pre patch Legion times maybe 1-2 toxic endgame chats and since then 2-3 after the patch. I bet I would have had more if I would have stay in the red ranks. Also that I often let survivors go is not good for my rank :). What should I say? If I had fun in a match, its ok to let some survs go...
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1114020#Comment_1114020
The term "Moonwalking Legion" was applied to every Legion that used a method to break chase to down a survivor, even though you are right, technically it wasn't Moonwalking, but almost every Moonwalking Legion I faced (and for the most part there were exactly two kinds of Legion at the time, Moonwalking and Mixtape) was running bloodhound.
Please, explain what part of looking at bright red blood pools on the ground and following them involves skill, I'm really curious.
I guess changing a Killer instead of a mechanic is simply easier. Obv they changed Legion to much and stuff like the hit missing penalty shouldn't be a thing.
I know, you won't agree with me, but in my opinion it was a mistake to add Legion to the game. A Killer that can ignore the strongest defensive mechanims of survivors is hard to balance and BHVR had already problems with that in the past.
To read sentences like this: "and for the most part there were exactly two kinds of Legion at the time, Moonwalking and Mixtape" still lets me look a bit sad.
I had spent my most time as Legion main to that time, without using addons and also not using the exploits and I had also know other Legion mains to that time, that have play like this.
It's always a bit demotivating to read your favorite killer in combination with exploits. Especially since he had make so much fun without any exploits and addons.
Don't understand my words as a rant... It is just a "annotation" from me... Explanation of my thoughts to it...