THE_Crazy_Hyena
THE_Crazy_Hyena
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903382#Comment_3903382
Good point, i did forget about the anti Smurf thing.
Back fill and dodges could definitely be made better, though I feel like the "best" solution is to either rework the lobby entirely or just get rid of it altogether. I'm not sure if the devs agree with either of those approaches (or have the time/resources to prioritize either one).
I mean, it is definitely a problem that needs to be at least looked into. If it means fairer matches, then maybe people who are playing won't suffer as many burnouts as they do now. And a healthier matchmaking/lobby system would definitely help with player retention, which is something DBD has been struggling with, especially lately.
Granted, the game has some peaks and valleys throughout the year, but it has been hovering around 30-35k players for a while now.
* Do take note that these numbers represent the Steam playerbase. -
It also depends on if Nintendo is giving the Switch 2 much better hardware than its predecessor. As I recall, the Switch was very underpowered, even when it was new, so no wonder why DBD ran poorly on it, considering how heavy Unreal Engine is to run properly.
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@Masterninja said:
Killer gameplay should be around hooks, not kills. While survivor gameplay should be about how much or how many actions you did during the match (repairing, being altruistic, duration of chases, etc…) and not wether you escaped the trial or not.
Hooks should definitely play a bigger role than it does today, and I fully agree with your statement, but also other aspects of killer gameplay needs to be taken into account, like power usage, gen/objective defense, chases won etc. Granted, some aspects needs to carry more weight than others.
For both killers and survivors, using the emblem system to calculate MMR might be the best way to go.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
So there's a lot that's incorrect about this, mostly with how MMR is assumed to be calculated and used. Since you separate your post into sections, I'll try to mirror that format, though there's some overlap where things are intertwined.
MMR promotes speed over quality.
Not incorrect, but I'll comment on this. The devs introduced the current MMR system as a replacement for ranks in September 2021.
Not too long after they implemented this, they got feedback that people didn't care for it and they decided to try and tune the system better for the community. I want to say these tests occurred within the first year of the system being out (I don't remember at this point).
But the tests ran for about a week or two, and were single-blind: meaning the devs changed something, didn't tell the players what they changed, and then asked for feedback every day to gauge how those changes felt for players, even though the community didn't have the slightest clue what they changed.
At the end of those tests, the devs released their data and had dialed in some numbers to tweak things. They played with the spread of MMR, how long it took to start expanding the search (lower quality games, but faster queue times, and vice versa) among other things. The end result was what players said "felt best of those tests at the time" and the devs were more or less happy with the queue times (so, they found a semblance of balance).
One of the tests, once they revealed the results, was going back to the old system of "ranks", and people hated it. It was one of the least popular tests they ran, and keep in mind people didn't realize they were in that system... They just went by how well they felt matches were balanced for that particular test.
So yes, the system promotes speed over quality to a degree. It initially tries to find a "good match", then steadily expands the search radius for less accurate matchmaking as time goes on. Ideally, it finds a match before things get too far out of balance, but things like back fills, lobby dodging, etc, can effectively turn off matchmaking entirely to fill out an already started lobby, so people aren't waiting (since the game doesn't even create a "lobby" until it thinks there's a valid match anyway).
How MMR is calculated.
So, starting (or "new player") values: I will say, though, that players have an MMR for each killer, and if you play a brand new killer it will start you at "roughly your killer MMR, but slightly lower" at first.
The idea being that you should have a general killer MMR, which covers the fundamentals, but you'll probably have to adjust to a new kit on a brand new killer. So you don't start over completely every new chapter release, for example.
The big issue is with the MMR gain and loss. The maximum gain or loss is +/-20 and roughly +5 for a kill, and -5 for an escape on the killer end. But this assumes that every player in that match is exactly the same MMR... something that basically never actually happens in reality
However, in any functional MMR system there's a weighting on MMR gains and losses to keep the system in check. So, if you have a 12k hour blight player at, say 2100 MMR, and they somehow get matched against a brand new team of MMR 650 survivors, the system should never give full +20 to the blight for a 4k and -20 to the survivors. We already know the outcome just by the numbers, the blight is going to win by a landslide. And the MMR system should also know that this is the expected outcome, and not adjust MMR hardly at all for this mismatch.
So, generally speaking, the system will calculate the average MMR for each team (in DbD the killer "team" is pretty straightforward) and match based on that. And if there happens to be an exact match, then you get the +/-20 values you tossed out.
But the norm is going to be that matches have one team with higher MMR than the other. So if the underdog team loses, that's the expected outcome, and if they win it's the unexpected upset. The underdog team should lose less MMR and the higher MMR team earn less MMR when that match plays out as expected. And it should be based on how mismatched the teams are: so similar teams are close to +/-20, but our extreme example of blight vs newbies should be almost no change in MMR at all on either team.
That's how nearly every MMR system in existence works, and I surely hope that's how this one does. Because if its simply a flat +/-20 regardless of the matchup, then just the fact that the game is set up for a 60% kill rate means that (if they play long enough) every survivor has minimum MMR and every killer has maximum MMR.
MMR brackets.
These don't exist, at least not in a meaningful way. The system doesn't care where you are in the MMR system, with only one exception (and I'll get to that).
The way the system tries to match you, is it takes your MMR and looks for a suitable game at that number. If it can't find 4 other people at your MMR within a certain time (like a minute or two) it expands to looking within +/-100 (or so) of your MMR and keeps going. It expands the search range until you find a game, so shorter queues should also mean, roughly, that you have a generally accurate game also.
But that process doesn't care if you're "on the edge of a bracket", and works exactly the same way if you're 500, 1200, or 2100 MMR.
The only exception for this is the soft cap, which I'm going to keep saying is 2100, but that might not be exact (and the real value is kind of irrelevant). Since you could keep winning, theoretically forever, at huge extremes of skill (pros) players would take an extremely long time to find a match. The soft cap is just a limit where, your actual MMR can be above that number (say 2400), but the system will look for matches as though you're 2100 instead.
But: since there are diminishing returns on MMR gains (or should be), then at this extreme level that player is gaining almost nothing for stomping players will below their MMR (see above) and similarly, if and when they lose they'll lose a ton as well (because the underdog won).
So it becomes difficult to maintain that high MMR unless you are genuinely one of the best in the game. It's also possible, and this is much more common, that people can win an awful lot, and struggle in matches, and still aren't "Max MMR".
Final words
Not responding to yours, per se, just sorting out my final thoughts.
Maybe a community manager or Dev can confirm some of this, because I think a lot of what I cover is public knowledge (although the exact numbers I think are intentionally hidden).
I'll also say that I don't think MMR is perfect by any means.
Back fill and lobby dodging basically turn off all matchmaking and prioritize finding anyone with a pulse, and match quality goes out the window.
I'm almost entirely certain that, even if the system had a perfect, infinite supply of every MMR player that the game would match a 1000 MMR killer with two 1000 MMR survivors, a 1200 survivor, and an 800 survivor. I think the matchmaker intentionally makes a weak link on the team (this is a bit tin foil hat, admittedly).
Most importantly, most players are not "Max MMR", or even at the soft cap. Just because you win 40 games in a row, doesn't (or shouldn't) boost your MMR by 800. You'll eventually hit diminishing returns farming the "easy" games, and lose/struggle against opponents who are better than you. Playing a lot will mean you hit an MMR that is your skill level, and that is most likely not at or above cap. That's also ok.
Very good insight. Thank you for your perspective on this.
I might not have gotten all the details in my initial post, especially about the calculation and its variables, but more a rough estimate, at least when it comes to a maximum.
I also forgot to add that there is a smurf-prevention system in place, where you would be pushed into the next tier within a few matches if you had too of an easy time.Regarding back-filling of lobbies, I too have a strong belief that this is where most of the issues with imbalanced matchmaking stem from, and that this system in particular needs to be looked at, more specifically having the back-filling algorithm searching for players around the average MMR of the lobby.
I am with you on the tin foil hat thing, that maybe it is intentionally pairing a weaker player and a stronger player together with two more average players. It could also be a result of a duo-SWF. -
@Nomade said:
For survivors, calculating MMR based off of escapes is just a bad way to do it because it rewards cowardly play rather than actually helping your team. Often the most skilled survivor on a team gets sacrificed because they are the ones getting chased or running around doing riskier unhooks and trying to make plays.
Hence why the emblem system (which is already in the game) should be used to calculate MMR. This applies to both sides.
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@DeeArrEss said:
Similar to how they lowered prices and bundled together old chapters, I propose that cosmetics in the store that are over 2 years old drop in rarity from Very Rare (1080 AC) down to Rare (675 AC)
All non-legendary/visceral cosmetics post chapter launch are Very Rare and characters w/ a large store page have quite a few of these from either years of additions or they’re big sellers. I believe this discourages buying cosmetics since buying just two outfits is the price of the game. If you’re a new player here for the latest chapter you might just buy 1 or 2 of the new stuff and that’s it and if you’re a long time player you’ll hoard cells for something really good or use shards.
There can be exceptions like Dwelf and Bunny Feng but you look me in the figurative eye and tell me Claudette’s Roving Healer or Meg’s Red Hot Runner outfits from 2018 are still selling enough to justify their 1080 AC pricetag?
Fair points to be honest, although cosmetic pricing tends to be rather stationary, no matter how old the skins are.
Using League of Legends as a reference, they still sell skins that are more than 15 years old at this point at full price.Character pricing on the other hand should depreciate over time, and maybe give beginner-friendly characters an extra discount.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Downvotes should be removed. They just hinder discussions, instead of having to come up with an actual argument, people just click a button. And if you cannot bother to think about an argument, you should not be able to downvote.
Also, I personally really dislike if simple questions get downvoted. E.g. there was a person yesterday asking how to get rid of the black Bars if you play on a resolution other than 16:9 (they were playing on 1920x1200) and the first thing someone did was downvoting it. It just gives some really unwelcoming vibe to new Users who clearely dont post anything wrong.
A very good argument to be honest.
I have seen a trend forming in my own comments as well, where I often get downvoted for no apparent reason other than disagreements, so I can see your statement of "It just gives some really unwelcoming vibe" being especially true.
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@JPLongstreet said:
I think them removing Prestiges in the lobbies did help their matchmaking system a lot, but more is needed. I've always believed the backfilling issues are the root cause of most of the evils of stomp matches.
Dodging & shopping around for lobbies imo need to be addressed further, and possibly slightly longer wait times to pair up more evenly. Could mean locked lobbies, could mean profiles can't be clicked on, could mean less ping tolerance too. Things like that I'd like to see tested out.
A fair point to be honest.
Backfilling seems to be the biggest culprit of imbalance, at least that is how I see it too. Then again, the wide skill grouping in the higher brackets surely isn't helping either.I agree that lobby-dodging needs to be looked into as well, and that more experimenting with the SBMM system as a whole is definitely welcome. A well-made system is definitely helping the game retaining players over a much longer time.
I don't want this game to die. I want it to be more enjoyable for players of any skill. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441454/favorite-instance-of-chapter-teasers
"Page 3361" "Old Discussion" "Would become Clown and Kate"
I joined DBD right when that was happening. I'm not old, am I?
:(
Remember, we gamers don't age. We just level up.
"Getting old" is not in our vocabulary.
PS: I got into DBD when the next chapter after Kate and Clown came out, or "Shattered Bloodline" as it was called. -
@coolgue1 said:
SHE IS THE NEW SKULLMERCHANT THE WAY EVERYONE PLAYS HER ALONG HOW EFFORTLESS IT IS TO GET DOWN AND HIT SEEMS WAY OVERTUNED AND THE DONlG LINGERS FOR TOO LONG WHEN SHE SET THE DOG OUT IT JUST A BODY BLOCKING BOT THAT CAN HOLD YOU IF THE ANIMATION get THREW AND DONT HIT ANYONE IT STILL STAYS FOR 2 SCONDS IN SAME LOCATION AND CAN STILL MAGICALLY GET THE GRAB
I would not go that far. She is nothing like Chess Merchant.
Also, a good tip: Don't write in all-caps. -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441465/mmr-the-big-talking-point-lately
I believe a lot of this information is incorrect. The MMR system does not treat this as a 1v4, it treats the game is 4 1v1s. So if you kill a survivor, they lose rating, and you gain rating based on that kill, its not just a blanket "you get 20 points for a 4k" it all
It is better explained in the video, where it was done as a long experiment.
Though the calculation for killer MMR might be incorrect, it is definitely something a dedicated killer main should look more into. But it is more a rough estimate, let's call it that. -
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903147#Comment_3903147
Same 😊 Being in the community during the whole lead up was a once in a lifetime experience 😌
It really was. From the security cam teaser, to the movie theater scene. Perfection.
I really hope BHVR can bring forward more teasers like this in the future. -
@zumer said:
Let's remove the solo mode from the game then, so there are no questions. Everyone should be happy in the game, not just the killer and the swf. Although there was no swf at release.
That would kill off the majority of survivor players, and killers would face incredibly long queue times, akin to what you see in 2v8.
Absolutely not a good idea to do, unless you want the game itself to die -
Personally, I would like them to go.
I was fine with just upvotes being a thing, and you could often times gauge popular and unpopular comments in that way too. -
@Yippiekiyah said:
There's still too many maps that are massively survivor sided. Apart from that maybe a toolbox and syringe nerf and we'd have the best balance we've ever had.
There are plenty of maps that are very killer-sided also. Two sides of the same coin.
And let's not forget the fact that some killers are a tad too strong as well. If you want to nerf the best survivor tools, you'd also need to bring the best killer tools in line as well. Otherwise you are looking at the most unbalanced experience in the history of gaming, and pretty much every match would devolve into gen-splitting and slugging, because there would be no other viable ways to play.
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@ManOMaker said:
Don't ask why, but I was just looking at the general discussions on page 3,361, and I found an old discussion on theories behind what would turn out to be the release of Kate and Clown.
That made me think of all the investment in the Artist and Trickster teasers when they were doing that, but now that the marketing team is gone, I'm not sure if others will be able to experience that.
So, I ask, which instance of chapter teasers did you love?
All things Wicked. That teaser video was easily one of the best they have ever done.
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@Shaped said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903014#Comment_3903014
I remember mmr being more strict when it came out. There was a short period when I had most fun and thought I was fairly matched.
I remember some content creators crying about it and now they seem happy since they are fed fodder over and over, stomping people with less hours and still calling it 'high mmr'.
It's bullshit that makes this game super unenjoyable sometimes.
100%
When it first got introduced, it still matched you against people of a similar skill level, but since so many people complained about long queue times, it got changed to what we have today.
I'd absolutely take longer queue times if it leads to better match quality, and less one-sided stomping.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903047#Comment_3903047
well, to be fair… Nurse has no realistic counterplay. If the player is on point and your in range, you get hit. No matter what you do. You can hope for auto-aim making her lunge into an object, but is that really counterplay?
BHVR already admitted, that against a nurse that is on point, there is not much you can do. Just run to a corner and try to go down their so that she wastes more time.
If shes not on point, then there is actually a lot you can do. I agree.
That is true, you just have to run the edge-map and hope for the best, really.
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@buggybug said:
Interesting yesterday I did like 10 survivors games and only won 2 of them and barely. Switch to killer and did about 4 games for daily ritual and 4k on all of them even the two that I was playing as pig am like well amma lose now and did not. I even got an rbt kill and I did not tunnel but it was the add on that drops an active bear trap timer every time a gen complete so her team killed her.
In those killer games its not like the survivors was even bad, they loop and pop at least 4 gens in all those matches and I did not tunnel. It's crazy and am not even a killer main yet I won all of them and only won 2 out of 10 survivor games.
It was 2 pig games, 1 dredge game, 1 plague game. Then again the perk set ups I had was set for mid to late game come back and it was not noed or knockout.
I had a similar thing happen to me the last time I played. I was doing a couple matches of Chaos Shuffle just for the funsies. And while one of the survivor games I played, I got a very sweet Huntress who gave me the gate instead of the usual mori, the next couple of games, I had absolutely zero chance of escaping.
Then I switched to killer myself, and had a few easy 4k games, despite spreading hooks and playing fair. I did end up giving the last survivor hatch, because I really felt bad for them.
I played a few games with Doctor, and a couple games with Wraith. -
@zumer said:
I play as a survivor and have already failed 18 matches in a row. Either fix the balance or make a normal matchmaking. Or do you think that losing every match is fun? If you think so, then play your game with yourself. This is not a survival game, this is a sacrifice simulator.
Balancing DBD is much more complex than maps, perks and base-kit powers.
But as you mentioned, the matchmaking is the real issue here, because the skill groups are way too large to account for the huge discrepancy between players within a single skill group (bracket).
Looking into the MMR system can tell you that the two higher brackets encompasses a much wider gap than the two lower brackets.- 0-650 (Bronze-tier / or roughly between the old ranks 20 to 14) - This is mostly reserved for the newest players who has about 100 hours or less put into the game.
- 650-900 (Silver-tier / or between the old ranks 14 to 12) - Fresh accounts start out at 650 rating, or in the bottom of this tier. Wins/losses determines if you drop down into the beginner bracket or not. Smurfs who can easily win, will often end up skipping past this tier, and move into the next within a few matches.
- 900-1400 (Gold-tier / or between the old ranks 12 to 7) - Most casual players will find themselves in this bracket, and this is commonly referred to "SoloQueue Hell", since the discrepancy between players is fairly large between 900 and 1400 MMR.
- 1400-2100 (Iridescent-tier / or the old ranks between 7 and 1) - This is the most problematic bracket, since the 700 point gap between a casual player who has been winning enough to get here, to most likely a tournament player at the highest rating, is quite substantial.
Note that the matchmaking will prioritize finding players within your bracket first, before allowing players from different brackets to fill in the spots if it takes too long to find a match.
It starts out with a smaller point radius, but will quickly expand to encompass your entire bracket, and that means if you are unfortunate enough to be a soloqueue player stuck in the highest bracket, you are likely going to get steamrolled by a killer with several thousands of hours put into the game, or facing off against a "Seal-team" with tens of thousands combined hours if you are a casual killer.Also, if the initial opponent leaves the lobby, the matchmaking will pick another player who is ready and waiting in queue. This backfilling of the lobby is often the root cause of unfair matches, since the backfilling prioritizes speed, and will pick any player waiting in line. This is sometimes the cause behind a soloqueue survivor being matched with "bad" teammates.
Anyways, I know it is a longer read, but this is at least from my standpoint what I have noticed being the most common issue with the matchmaking, and why the game quality has been in a downwards spiral ever since SBMM was introduced in the late part of 2021
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MMR, and the matchmaking overall is just broken in this game. It worked so much better back in the day when players had ranks, and the matchmaking system prioritized matching you against players of a similar rank to yourself
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Simple.. Twins!
Never liked the playstyle that revolves around slugging, and I also hate facing them.
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Having fun is a very subjective term. This can vary greatly from match to match.
For me to have fun, I love getting a close and tense match where everything is down to the wire, getting good chases and such.
Unfun matches tend to be the one-sided ones, where one side completely dominates the other.Now, about what @HerInfernalMajesty was talking about when it comes to killer difficulty.
I think this comes down more to killer viablility at higher elo (MMR), since you tend to see much more of Billy, Blight and Nurse at the higher ratings. Granted, nowadays there is a greater amount of the killer roster who plays decent enough in high MMR. Not necessarily based on killer difficulty, since you often times run into the odd Trapper or Myers in this player bracket, who plays their killer extremely well, and leaves you with just a slim chance of escaping.Like the youtuber Choy was talking about in one of his videos, the MMR is practically divided into 4 different brackets (I highly recommend watching it to get a better understanding of the MMR rating system)
- 0-649 (Bronze-level): This is the beginner level, where most players who are starting out will find themselves at. At this level, you can pretty much face any killer, since many players try out different killers when they start out. The starter killers (trapper, wraith, billy, nurse and huntress) are the most common - Console players has Hag and Doctor in the place of Huntress and Nurse.
- 650-999 (Silver-level): Most players has a base MMR of 650 when starting out, so this bracket often has brand new players, and you may end up facing any killer.
- 1000-1399 (Gold-level): This is likely the bracket that holds most of the casual players, and you can face pretty much any killer here as well.
- 1400-2100 (Iridescent-level): The widest skill-span happens in this level. Most hardcore players find themselves at around 1800 rating and above, and players in this bracket will often be matched against players further down the rating, since the matchmaking prioritizes speed over quality. This is where you find most of the hardcore Billy, Blight and Nurse players, though other killers are often played as well.
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@ManOMaker said:
As someone with P100 on 0 characters, and not even being close to any, I'm just wondering, if a player has P100 on a specific character, does that really make them qualified, or whatever, to voice their opinion/teach things about that character as an "expert?"
Not necessarily, but that is more down to if your P100 is on a survivor or a killer.
If you have a P100 killer, you have likely spent a lot of time playing that killer, and learned every little trick in the book while getting to that point. Unless you have played a different killer, and just wanted to dump a lot of BP into another character for whatever reason.
But for the most part, a P100 killer is usually a good player.Survivors on the other hand is more a mixed bag. It all depends on the situation
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@joeyspeehole said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902486#Comment_3902486
Yes, what is the reason behind all the anti-sable sentiment?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C4K0OUAWMXRW/screenshot-2025-03-30-142909.png
This sable will not fail either; she may disappoint you, but that is more likely to user error. 😉
Glad to see a fellow Sable enjoyer :)
I have also noticed when playing survivor that I am more likely to be tunneled as Sable than with any other survivor. Is there an anti-Sable conspiracy or something 🤔
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
I think it's something that didn't really take away chase potential in 2v8, and I feel it's use in 1v4 wouldnt be so problematic with all the anti loop and hitting through pallets we have atm. and m1 killers have plenty anti pallet perks too, maybe it'd force people away from the current gen slowdown stacking more.
If anything it might give survivors the fighting chance they need for the likes of solo queue, like someone throwing shack down really early etc.Exactly, you really don't have to run 4 slowdown perks to have an enjoyable game as killer. You can easily squeeze in an anti-pallet perk, like Brutal Strength or Dissolution to counter this. Also would work really well to break down the temporary windows. Speaking of Dissolution, it could have also been buffed to include breaking down walls with temporary windows in, if my perk idea was a thng.
I was thinking of this perk with solo queue in mind, though it would undoubtedly be strong on certain maps, like The Game or Léry's, where there are pretty good god-pallets, and in the case of The Game, many breakable walls.
But on the vast majority of maps, it would probably be a B-tier perk at best. -
@HeroLives said:
as much as I love the idea, I think pallet rebuilding is best left to 2v8 and not in normal matches. Great idea in theory but I think it would be too strong in practice considering 4man stacking.
Yes, that is the reason why I stated the last part of the idea "being a nightmare to balance"
It would undoubtedly be very strong on a co-ordinated SWF team, and that kind of defeats the purpose of it.
I mean, it wouldn't be too strong from a solo-queue standpoint though, and killers could definitely play around it by respecting pallets, and forcing a drop.Maybe if I changed the idea of it only starting with one token, and had a maximum of 2, instead of 3, it wouldn't be too potent.
@TerraBytes said:
Do you want to convert killer players to Nurse?
Not my intent.
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@buggybug said:
As my usual saying goes, then people wonder WHY people rather swf. At least my friends aint gonna rage quit and dc for everything
A valid point in all honesty.
I guess that is why most survivor players prefer to SWF rather than playing alone. I much prefer having at least a duo partner, than going in solo. -
@SummerBBQDwight said:
Dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, anti-loop, anti-loop, anti-loop,...
Can we get like more trapper type killers? Set up killers? Something that doesnt counter loops and have distance? We need more trapper killers, we need more than you dash, you can't loop or I go fast powers.
You know what we also haven't seen in a while. A true stealth killer.
Granted Chucky has stealth, but it is situational. I was thinking more in the line of Myers and Ghost Face. Primarily M1 killers who rely on being sneaky.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902237#Comment_3902237
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902285#Comment_3902285
Swapped Perspective is the one that I want so bad! It would be so scary on Survivor 😨
Definitely. Though it could have been fair if the survivor players could hold down a key to look back while running. Similar to how it works in survival games like Rust, or in BR's like PUBG, where you can hold down the ALT key to look over your shoulder while running forward. That way, you had the option to gauge how close the killer was.
But yes, first-person survivor mode would be incredibly scary to play, and I am sure I would have loved it
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@Ricardo170373 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902379#Comment_3902379
Even though i have changed nowdays, i will never forget my origins
Those custom icons were really cool.
Big thumbs up from me 👍️ -
@jajay119 said:
I’ve had three matches today and two of them had some abysmal survivor play. One match a Sable (of course) decided to kill hers self on hook and the other two survivors just threw themselves at the killer. 4 gens undone. My third match none of the other three survivors touched a gen once, apart from me who solo did a gen. We spent 15 minutes just unhooking, healing and running round.
Honestly I get there’s a big uproar bout camping and tunnelling making the game hard to play and unfun right now, lord knows I’ve been a vocal part of those discussions, but this does not help at all. Neither of these killers did C&T by the way. Why even queue up?
Ooof, so that is why Sable players are being looked down on. Not cool.
At least this Sable is not a quitter 😄
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Trust me man.. you don't want to get old DH back. It is a good reason why it got changed into what it is today.
DH for distance into flashlight saves, or into that god pallet that you had to break and lost any count towards bloodlust, enabling the survivor to gain a huge distance on you again.
Do you really want to go back to that? -
The thing is that Chaos Shuffle can be rectified with one simple fix:
Randomized items/add-ons
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902270#Comment_3902270
I've always said that yes, there are petty people. But people aren't becoming more petty over time, especially not in the numbers people are claiming to see (i.e. "go next epidemic"). It's a symptom of the games health, and the devs' deliberate balance decisions have actively made the problem worse over time.
It will depend on what and how they implement some kind of "anti go next" as they've claimed. I'm waiting for the details myself, but I honestly don't know what they have planned.
Even just looking at it in a vacuum (as OP is doing) and just removing hook attempts entirely, it doesn't solve anything. People will follow the killer around, point at a hook, deliberately miss every skill check on a gen, make vault notifications to annoy the killer into getting them out of the game.
I just don't see that as a feasible option without either leaving loopholes (like I described above) or being so specific that your going to have an insane number of false positives. Am I missing skill checks because I'm new, throwing, or because tombstone Myers will instantly kill me if I do anything else?
I think my biggest problem is that most of these discussions are people with what I can only describe as a "punish survivors" mentality. People basically expecting that giving up should result in a hardware ban, send all of their BP, iri shards, and aurics to the killer as an apology, and have the IRS audit them just to drive the message home. At least if it's a survivor... Since I've seen those same people say that if the killer decides a game is lost they should be able to surrender after 2 minutes with no other penalty. The discrepancies can be sometimes so biased it's offensive with some people.
If they're already looking to address (hopefully in a meaningful way) some of the reasons people are going next, (such as being found first means you don't get to play the game) then I expect that will help alleviate the problem a decent amount. There's no magic pill that will fully solve the problem, including the "punish them all" solutions.
What I have been observing is that the "go next" epidemic became more prevalent after MMR (SBMM) got introduced, DC penalties got taken away, and especially after patch 6.1.0, when the big meta shift took place. Then came Chess Merchant, and so on, where the game got stacked more and more against the survivor side. This culminated in patch 6.7.0 when medkits got gutted, and since then, the go-next epidemic has been very prevalent.
- The main issue with MMR is that the matchmaking draws from a pool of players that widely range in skill. Choy (on youtube) did a video talking about this issue, and since you have 4 main groups of MMR, where the highest group is undoubtedly the largest, taking up 1/3 of the entire MMR rating, you get players ranging from what could be a rank 7 (with the old system) to a top rank 1 player. This happens because the matchmaking prioritizes matchmaking speed over quality, and you will more often than not run into players that are way beyond your own skill level, unless you start going on a long losing streak, where you will eventually be matched against someone who is clearly below your skill level.
- DC penalties got taken out when bots could replace players, so those who are salty enough instead resorts to offing themselves on the hook, to prevent their place to be taken up by a bot.
- Yes, many survivor players hated the meta shifts, and especially the medkit nerfs in patch 6.7.0, since it affected soloqueue players more than it did SWF.
I don't think being found first is the entire reason why people are going next, but the more likely scenario of being tunneled out first might be the real problem here.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441283/do-you-enjoy-looping
Yes and no; killer interaction is the only real action you get as a surv player, but stock standard looping does get old. So I do also enjoy killers that disrupt that. In doses.
It's a weird thing; imo chase is the best thing in DBD for either role, but the times where I have felt the most like "man, this feels like groundhog day and I might be over it" is when I'm looping or being looped.
Not sure what I am trying to say here, maybe just the I wish there was something more to the gameplay loop.
I agree with you here. "In doses"
For me, a killer like Wesker can be really fun to play against, since he does not have explicit anti-loop, but he has the ability to catch up quite easily, so if you play your cards right, you can get a nice long loop and chase with him.Though like others has stated, it is map-dependant, so for example, if I got sent to Coldwind Farm or Haddonfield, where the loops are either unsafe or scarce, it really is not fun. But on more balanced realms, like the MacMillan maps where you can chain together a jungle-gym and another decent tile, it can be quite fun.
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Deceivers sounds like Among Us, but in DBD. That would have been a very cool mode.
An impostor survivor that could do anything the others do, but also have the ability to kill another.Swapped perspective also sounds like a ton of fun. It would really bring the horror back to DBD, if you could play Survivor in first-person, not knowing exactly when the killer was on your back. Though, if Chucky got a swapped perspective too, wouldn't he also be in first-person as well :D
Luck of the Draw sounds like an improved iteration of Chaos Shuffle, since items/add-ons are also randomized.
Hide and Seek has been a highly wanted mode in the DBD community.
Giants is essentially what became "My Little Oni". - but what if we got a role reversal, where the survivors became huge, and the killers tiny :D
5v5 mode sounds like fun. What if the killer on team 1 had to prevent the survivors on team 2 to complete the generators, and vice versa. Using the 2v8 maps as a base for the mode, the first team to get 5 generators done would win, or if one team's killer gets all of the other team's survivors before that.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
sounds like a stupid idea
but what if they made color options for auras?
There should be an option to change the color of auras from red to a color of your choosing like blue, green, yellow, pink.
That way the colors won’t blend in and hurt the eyes of players
I guess the colorblind option could work, since it turns auras bright orange, and easier to make out.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902168#Comment_3902168
At this point, Im collecting them. xD
Same here. But I do keep wondering though
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Kindred + Open Handed, especially for solo queue. The amount of information given is definitely worth both perk slots.
For killer, I'd say Grim Embrace. Works really well for stalling out gen progression, especially against survivors that spread out over multiple gens. Though it works best if you don't plan on tunneling someone.
Alternately, Corrupt Intervention is great as well. -
@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901190#Comment_3901190
Yeah they don't run out of pallets by the time the gens are done. The amount of pallets on most maps besides 3 is overly abundant
Well, unless you are playing on The Game or other pallet-dense maps, but for the most part, if you can force pallets early on, it leaves a lot less safe options for the survivors to use.
Brutal Strength, Enduring and Spirit Fury are great in this situation -
@shadow_V said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R3KTIBRA34NJ/b52bca27-09cc-4ae1-8c17-1c209c2282c6.png
These perks are being abused together but no one is batting an eye at it every post I've never made discussing issues like slugging or minor issues I think would help survivors if it was fixed I always get slammed down like my opinions aren't valid it's a free speaking forum I get that but no one ever takes a second to think maybe I'm speaking a little truth people are so quick to deny my claims I've seen killers use this build multiple times but nothing gets done about it
In this particular match the map was fathers chapel and he knocked down the first survivor on the second floor of the chapel then preceeded to hook her in the basement INSIDE killer shack and if you know the map you know how far away that is then took up almost her whole first hook setting traps all around it luckily her camping bar was full and she was able to get off but someone else got trapped and put in the basement
In the end he camped two of them in the basement from first hook to almost dead till he knew we weren't going for them then he found us healing and knocked down the third but by then it was too late for me to even try to get to the basement and I know people are gonna say that's just a basement trapper but that's no excuse to make two people die on first hook especially when you've trapped killer shack air tight and disarming them hurts us
Why is it that survivors reportedly are the only ones abusing perks/add-ons but not the killers? Because the devs favor the killer side why else are the survivors the only ones gonna suffer from the go next prevention (as far as what I read on the dbd forum) according to the forum we can lose an entire grade but it says nothing about penalizing the killer for slugging it just says we will receive a surrender option
I know they changed knock out because it was being used to slug but I'm a console player so I haven't played against it yet to know if it's strong or not (before you huff and puff about how you don't know what your reading it's a long paragraph that's about multiple things I'm telling you a little about my match with a camping killer while also expressing my confusion on why it's never the killer doing wrong)
What you have posted here is a complaint about a standard basement trapper build.
Play around it, and avoid going too close to the basement. -
@CountOfTheFog said:
There are posts on Twitter/X but I thought I'd make my own for us here! Copy the template and tell us your answers!
first main: Ace and Myers
current main: Nancy and Freddy
fav map: coal tower
fav perk: Kindred
fav item: Med-kit
fav chapter: Stranger Things
how many p100s?: 3: Freddy, Nancy and Steve/Johnathan
hours: ~6,000
First mains: Feng / Spirit
Current mains: Sable / Doctor
Favorite map: RPD East
Favorite perks: Blast Mine / Trail of Torment
Favorite item: Medkit
Favorite add-on (killer): Red Moss (Demogorgon)
Favorite chapter: All things Wicked
P100's: None - Working on Sable (currently at P49), and I have several more in the works, sitting at around P10-15
Hours: 1130
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901149#Comment_3901149
How do I deal with predropping as an M1?
Just break the pallets quickly. The faster you get rid of them, the faster you can make every pallet loop winnable
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@LordDeathly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900859#Comment_3900859
I really like your comment. I too normally try to play in a manner of just going for 8 hooks. Not paying attention to kills helps me enjoy killer more,and lessons the stress of the killer role. I have 1.5k hours in DBD, and most of that was playing solo Q. I'm still in the killer phase where I'm bouncing around the killer roster to see which killer I enjoy playing the most. So , normally I don't have the skill as a killer yet to stomp a SWF squad sadly.
Yes, I have always enjoyed playing killer in a relaxed manner, and 99% of the time I am running non-meta builds. I do sometimes run into the odd SWF group that are intentionally doing what they can to annoy the living daylights out of me.
All you need is practice, and you can easily learn the patterns that bully SWF's are using, since they often times play around you, and not necessarily for rushing gens. Usually one player is designated as a "gen-jockey", while the others are there to pull off things like flashbang/flashlight saves, head on etc. If you play your cards right, you can easily turn this into your favor.
They will always body-block, and pretty much all the time, they have perks like Decisive Strike and Dead Hard, to squeeze out more time. Sometimes, they will also bring sabo toolboxes, paired with Background Player to really mess with you. This can also be played around, if you don't down a player in an area that is scarce on hooks.
Also to add to my previous comment, while I sometimes resort to slug bully squads, I never go as far as to bleed them out intentionally. I slug them down, and then I hook them, just to keep the annoyance to a minimum.Granted, I only have around 1125 hours logged in the game, and while at least 60% of this is played with friends over the years, the times I play solo, I mostly play killer. Most of the time, I play Doctor, Myers or Demogorgon, but I have also played the majority of the roster at this point. Excluding Twins, I hate the playstyle, and I don't like facing them.
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@KerJuice said:
Bad:
- Wake Up Nerf
- Stealth Change to make it easier to pull survivors off gens (window was increased even after a second survivor lets go- even with great ping on every player in lobby)
- Adding more Aura perks (on both sides) to the game
Good:
- Quality of cosmetics are getting back to the quality we are accustomed to (some even exceeding)
- Music continues to be top notch
- More frequent blood hunts/feasts
- Bringing older rift cosmetics to the store for purchase
100% with you on the aura perks.
I remember the time when BBQ and Bitter Murmur were pretty much the only killer perks that was aura revealing, and you had Dark Sense and Alert for survivor. Object of Obsession was sort of a double-edged sword, at least for survivors who weren't too good at looping. -
@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900420#Comment_3900420
i wasn't there for that i got back before they nerfed her into the ground with the 1 scan change tho but they destroyed gen regression by putting a limit and curb stomped skull merchant anyway.
can we remove the limit now?
I think the gen-kick limit could be removed now, considering the problematic killers has been dealt with.
@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900643#Comment_3900643
Agreed. I find the finisher mori to be almost strictly negative in terms of its impact on gameplay and experience, with essentially no net benefit. I've even started to see a lot of people deciding to dc during the finisher mori when I watch streamers who go out of their way not to tunnel or slug for 4k. And these are reasonably skilled players who haven't been slugged for 4k or subjected to any other bm. There was even a large segment of the community who had no wish to revisit the finisher mori after the first attempt to introduce it.
Admittedly, I find the game health initiative to be highly positive, especially now that BHVR is taking advantage of its ability to crowd-source feedback from the playerbase to help predict unanticipated flaws with potential updates. Having said that, it's always a balancing act to ensure we get pleasantly surprised by fun, thematically fitting content, while also taking these steps. It seems like they're doing well and paying plenty attention to the PTB as well though, so I'm looking forward to how the health initiative plays out.
I too agree that the finisher mori was very bad for the game. The amount of killers who leave you slugged in the end, only to go for the finisher mori pretty much ballooned overnight when it got implemented.
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I once had a bully squad against me, who sent me to Autohaven out of all places. I quickly realized what they were up to, and while I normally play killer in a mild-mannered way (going for 8 hooks before sacrificing), this time the white gloves came off, and I resorted to slugging them. If they want to have fun on my behalf, then I can have "fun" on theirs as well 😈
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I do hope they come out with new pictures soon, since I want to have Sable as my avatar 😇
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900420#Comment_3900420
thats why you're suppose to spread your gens out. its not abuse, its preparing for worst case scenario which would be the endgame power-struggle. I think people say its abuse because they're unable to lure the killer away for teammates to complete last gen but the killer is too smart for that
The thing is that survivors didn't get the chance to spread out gens, thanks to SM going to the area with the 3 closest gens, setting up her drones, and locking it down for the entire match. That was the playstyle.
Case in point, when a streamer managed to lock down the game for 50 minutes against arguably the best survivor team in the world, something had to change.