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@Nikkiwhat said:
All of those amazing Hag drawings.....and you pick Clown, who while still a fav of mine...has gotten a TON of Cosmetic love and really great ones...Hag still imo, has the most underwhelming and boring cosmetics out of eveyone else... :/ I am disappoint..
To be fair, the contest is not "Who needs cosmetics the most?".
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Issue with suggestion #1: A Killer will get extremely suspicious when they notice that an injured Survivor is mysteriously leaving no blood behind.
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@Raccoon said:
People throwing shade on the clown suit without even realizing that "seeing pink elephants" is a euphemism for being drunk.
;3
That is brilliant.
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Yes. It's the Clown.
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Can we at least agree that MoM as it currently is does not need the aura downside?
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@RaginRendon said:
Ok how about this... after being put into the dying state you fully recover from exhaustion. So if you have decisive strike you can use that and have your exhaustion perk available to use again. This will be especially useful against tunneling killers and help deal with slugging
How about we don't try to buff some of the strongest Survivor perks?
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@Maelstrom10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583720#Comment_583720
You could technically say that about other pink add-ons though you are completely right in saying so about this idea. And if Im being honest? I don't have a solution for that.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583738#Comment_583738
Yes but 99'ing a gen stops them from escaping and gives her more delay potential which is why rule set n2 should be basekit. Yes swf can in a way "cheese" the locations but that doesn't neccesarily take away from her strengths, if anything that's a problem with swf and they can already do so against rule set n2 which is yet another reason it should be basekit.
To your other argument yes egc does exactly what it's designed to do. The whole idea of the add-on however is that it perverts the egc into something the pig has control over. I'd argue that if you've put traps on survivors heads, hooked them then activate egc that it's a fair victory for the pig, ie she has to down someone, hopefully multiple to get the most use out of it, hook them and then leave to go to an exit gate. but maybe that's my own crooked perspective. They deffinately need to do more work on the pig and my singular add-on change wasn't meant to be a solve all, it was just a buff to an add-on that I and a lot of others feel should be basekit.
No other add-on can force a de-pip on every Survivor the way your idea can. People talk about stuff having no counterplay? There is literally zero anything any Survivor can do to stop a Pig who decides to open the gate the moment the trial begins. There is no game at that point. Everyone pretty much just de-ranks, no questions asked. That does not make for a good idea.
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Once all the generators are completed.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583408#Comment_583408
Fun fact: This build with 4 fire up stacks and 3 Momentum stacks lets you vault as fast as Survivors.
We shall call this build "Olympic Myers"
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I'll go for them if I stumble into them or if I spot them working at or moving toward a box with BBQ. Beyond that, it's not really a good idea to actively hunt them down since it strongly diminishes the stall potential of the RBTs.
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That person is going to H-E-double hockey sticks for language like that. :P
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It is not nearly that simple, though.
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@RaginRendon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583719#Comment_583719
Remember, killers have their abilities that can help them deal with chases.
That is an overly simplistic way of viewing things.
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Ignoring everything I said before regarding "add-on vs. offering", this idea has one huge problem for me: What stops the Killer from effectively just forcing a de-pip on everyone by insta-opening the gates so that no one can do gens, no one can heal, no one can do nothing except escape?
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@RaginRendon said:
Although I respect your opinion, try not to think about it as "game breaking" or "overpowered". Remember the killer can easily do things that can easily counter this.
...why not?
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@RaginRendon said:
I completely understand, trust me, i've been around long enough to know. But in certain situations it can come in handy.
What kind of situations? I don't know, but whatever situation a player might possibly be in this can help save them.
Try to give me an example of how this could possibly save someone in a specific random situation. Think.
Do you understand, though?
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@RaginRendon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583612#Comment_583612
Dead hard can be useful but most killers are starting to learn how to counter it which doesn't make it too viable; you can probably get away with using it at high ranks though. Also it's not a guarantee that you'll be able to use your exhaustion perk a second time which is why I find this mechanic fair; it's 50/50
"Also it's not a guarantee that you'll be able to use your exhaustion perk a second time which is why I find this mechanic fair; it's 50/50"
I mean, have you considered why the devs perhaps made it so it is nigh impossible to use an exhaustion perk twice in once chase instead of making it closer to 50/50?
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@Maelstrom10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583632#Comment_583632
And i suppose thats a matter of opinion, but i still feel since this directly would affect her ability to manipulate the endgame that it fits as an addition to her power despite not directly affecting it. Myers tombstone Gives him power not accessible to other killers though in that he can m1 to mori rather then requiring them to be downed, ie its something thats not within his power that is added to his kit. Yes it is tied to his tier 3, but it is a unique ability that manipulates the game/
Also dw about the double post man it doesn't seem to have made two of them (unless you deleted one)
The thing with my proposed rework of rule set number 2 is that it would affect her power indirectly, by giving her control over trapping people in the endgame. currently the only way to do so is to place a trap over someones head before the final gen pops. this simply allows her the ability to choose when the endgame occurs, rather then relying on the abilities of the survivors to possibly lean in her favor or to circumvent her. the mere fact that she could with this proposed rework, keep players in the game through her traps if she plays right means that it would affect her power, whilst also bringing back the endgame strength some of us wish for.
I know all this is a matter of opinion and is objectively subjective, these are just my arguments that im putting out there. i do however agree for the most part that addon's should be tied to power, however i also believe that in doing so were being restrictive in essence, over the ability to change and alter how the game is played. some of my favourite addons completely change killer powers, ie freddy pallets, myers mirrors/tombstones, and i see this as just a form of extended version of that. :)
The tombstones give Myers an ability that "directly" ties into his power (you have to use his power to gain access to the add-ons' powers). The add-on you describe does not use her power in any way. It synergizes with her power, but that is like saying that a Pig add-on that says "Survivors who are grabbed off a gen lose 50% effectiveness in wriggling" is a good add-on for Pig. Abilities that exist for all Killers exist already; they are called "perks" and "offerings."
And by double post, I mean that I had to make a second post in a row because I am unable to edit the first post to add in what I wrote because of
It either directly affects her power or it doesn't. If your add-on works as an offering for all Killers, then it doesn't. I don't like the idea personally for other reasons, but there is no reason your idea shouldn't be an offering instead of an add-on for one Killer.
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This + Make Your Choice kinda makes it seem like it will almost always be such that the rescuer will be exposed. This isn't me saying this is a bad thing; rather I am simply pondering whether it would be a good idea to make such a thing happen.
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Double post because editing seems to be broke again on mobile:
Tombstone enables Myer to mori at Level 3 Evil Within, Mirrors allow Myers to see auras when stalking at certain Evil Within Levels, Black Incense reveals auras of Survivors affected by Plague's Vile Purge, Bone Clapper screws with the sound of the Wraith's bell, Prayer Beads removes the woosh of the Spirit's Phasing ability. The Hound is the one rule breaker and should actually be changed because of that. An outlier should not be the reason that the floodgates for add-ons that don't care about a Killer's power be opened.
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@Maelstrom10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583518#Comment_583518
well its not necessarily like this doesn't involve or affect it. and its not like addons can't give killers ability's they normally wouldn't have (like myer's tombstones/mirror's or black incense giving the ability to have gens give corrupt purge, bone clapper taking away the no terror radius, prayer beads bracelet taking away the wooshing and the most damning one of all the hound addon for wraith entirely not affecting his power and simply making blood marks more visible)
So now that we've confirmed that addon's don't necessarily have to tie into the killers power directly, there shouldn't be a problem with it correct?
Besides its fitting that amanda's pink addon should allow her to "break the rules of the game"
Lemme specify: Except in the case of Hillbilly and Leatherface add-ons for a specific Killer shouldn't be functional on any other Killer.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
Could also just use the Ultra rare to allow RBTS to work during end game but it stops the timer until the RBT is off
I will be very upset if that ends up being an add-on, let alone an Ultra Rare.
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Add-ons must involve the Killer's power in some way.
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This + Bamboozle + Fire Up + Tier 3 Myers = Vavavoom
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BBQ is still nice for seeing which boxes Trapped Survivors are going towards.
M&A lets you get closer to a gen before you need to crouch to hide your TR
Whispers lets you know with certainty when to crouch and uncrouch if you want to sneak up on gens, especially if you use M&A to reduce your TR so that Whispers activates before the Survivors can hear the heartbeat.
Spirit Fury + Enduring is always decent on most Killers
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@RaginRendon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583337#Comment_583337
Even a survivor who is simply injured would not always take the chance to stun the killer.
I think you are underestimating the better Survivors here.
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@RaginRendon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583315#Comment_583315
Dead hard... no; It's easy to counter. As for the rest of the exhaustion perks survivors would normally use the perk if they feel the need to do so. But once their exhausted and the chase continues they'll have to stun the killer a total of 4 times to get it to be used again. The killer perk spirit fury at level 2 & 3 can still be quite useful against this mechanic. If the killer lunges through a pallet and manages to hit the survivor, it's the survivors decision whether to save that pallet or not. If they choose to throw it down then the burst of speed that they get when hit would be wasted.
So what happens if there is no Spirit Fury in play? What stops the Survivor from keeping the chase going long enough to regain their Exhaustion perks other than misplays?
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@RaginRendon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583290#Comment_583290
Well what is the killer is tunneling you? Putting more distance between you and a tunneling killer is good. It'll buy your teammates more time to do gens and teach the killer that tunneling is not the best thing to do. I'm a killer & survivor main and I would encourage all other killer players to not tunnel as it would encourage the rest of the other survivors to get gens done more quickly.
"Well use adrenaline"
Could work but it depends whether your team is dedicated to doing the gens or not. NOED can easily counter it as well.
What about against Killers who are not tunneling you? This is still allowing you to keep the distance from them and make it much more difficult for them to catch you.
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@RaginRendon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583282#Comment_583282
This mechanic I came up with is completely different from the one that allowed survivors to recover while running. It's a lot more fair than the one from the past.
I think the first thing that you need to do before convincing people that your idea works is convince people that being able to use your Exhaustion perk twice in a chase is something that should be happening at all.
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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
@TAG I have never seen anyone with this definition of M1 killer lol. No one using the term 'M1 killer' will be referring to Nurse, Hag or Spirit.
There is a person several posts above mine that considers Spirit an M1 Killer.
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I consider a true M1 Killer to be any Killer who, without the use of perks or add-ons, has no way to injure, down, and/or hook a Survivor beyond swinging at them with a normal, unaltered M1 swing of your weapon or by grabbing them while they are busy.
So for me, M1 Killers are:
Wraith
Nurse
Hag
Doctor
Freddy
Clown
Spirit
Trapper is largely an M1 Killer but can technically injure with the Bear Trap and hook if he can make the grab (so he gets away with it on a technicality), Hillbilly has chainsaw, Myers can alter his M1 attack with his power, Leatherface has chainsaw, Huntress has Hatchets, Pig has Ambush, Legion has Feral Frenzy, Plague has Purge (Vile can effectively injure, and Corrupt can injure+down), and Ghostface can alter his attack.
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@LordGlint said:
@ClogWench The difference would be that those attacks are even recognized by the game as being different. You can just float up to someone as nurse and hit M1, or you can land ontop of them with a blink and hit them, which would reward more points. The 2 hits are abit different, even if they both involve M1.
Is that the game recognizing those as different attacks, or is that the game rewarding you for the same attack at a specific point?
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Going past what everyone else has said, this is the sentence I take the most issue with in your opening post:
"Why would another survivor be worse than that Bill?"
Why wouldn't they? Even if that was a reasonable assumption to make, it is not an excuse for you to continue an already long chase with someone you know you are struggling to catch. While you are struggling to down your very first person, the other three Survivors have uninterrupted access to the gens. In your situation, you had no good reason to keep the chase going as long as it did when you could have ended the chase prematurely and worked on trying to interrupt gen progress.
Could the next person you chased have been able to keep the chase going for just as long? It's possible, absolutely. But if you find yourself in a long, seemingly fruitless chase while applying zero pressure to gens, you are better off taking your chance with someone else than sticking with the person you know is able to keep you busy. You acknowledge that the Pig struggles to keep the game in check if she doesn't get her first Trap on quickly, but wasting your time in a single chase that you are struggling to win while the rest do gens is not how you get the first Trap on quickly.
Don't get me wrong. I think the Pig is one of the weaker Killers who really needs buffs, I think her Ambush is limited in usefulness and only good at some loops, and I think her Traps are super inconsistent. But the stuff I said above (minus the last bit about the quick Trap placement) doesn't really have to do with that and is more an issue of priorities and knowing when to break chase.
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@Jdsgames said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/75666/struggle-phase-change#latest
I think this mechanic is better than simply removing it.
It's certainly better than the current mechanic and I would be certainly be okay if it were implemented. Whether it's better than outright removing it, I'm not entirely sure. I could go either way, personally. But this is much better than the current mechanic.
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@D3v3S3aTp3An3S said:
Honestly is no different from any other game you have to play when repeatedly pressing buttons...
See my previous post in this thread:
@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/582036#Comment_582036
Repeatedly pressing the same button over and over tends to be frowned upon when it happens too frequently, yes. It's supposed to be interactive, but there's nothing strategic or particularly fun about it. It's just "keep doing this one monotonous/boring thing or die." Better to do nothing while hopefully waiting to not die than to do something tedious at best and frustrating at worst so that hopefully you don't die.
People don't like button mashing too often in general, not just in this game.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/582010#Comment_582010
Sure if it was a flat and constant reduction, but it's not since you get the speed back after you've successfully gotten the jump on them and hit them
And unless you're myers you still outrun survivors even with max stacks.
And a 1% MS lose for 4 meter TR loss means that if they run after hearing the TR then you should expect chases to be shorter for each stack you have.
Normally 8 meters of terror radius would be at the cost of 5% MS reduction
If actually hitting them isn't good enough then having it be whenever a chase starts could work too.
I think the best comparison to make for this is to compare a standard 115% M1 killer using this theoretical perk at full tokens to a Tier 2 Myers using M&A. How does a Tier 2 Myers with M&A normally fare, and how much worse does he get if his speed gets reduced to 109%?
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@MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/581973#Comment_581973
I guess you hate game where you have to click a button repeatedly to live?
And im not saying that you should click every 1 seconds, im saying don't murder your mouse or key, if you want to click at the same rate, do it, just don't put brute force when pressing.
Repeatedly pressing the same button over and over tends to be frowned upon when it happens too frequently, yes. It's supposed to be interactive, but there's nothing strategic or particularly fun about it. It's just "keep doing this one monotonous/boring thing or die." Better to do nothing while hopefully waiting to not die than to do something tedious at best and frustrating at worst so that hopefully you don't die.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
The issue with this perk was it's only use being to camp.
This gives it other uses while nerfing its use in camping.
You can't stop it's use in camping without ruining the premise of the perk, at which point why call it insidious?
I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure reducing the movement speed destroys any other use it could have.
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@WTBacon said:
Also Workshop Grease, Razor Wires, and Interlocking Razor are pretty much useless.
And Shattered Syringe. And Face Mask. And Utility Blades. And Slow-Release Toxin. And Rusty Attachments. Amanda's Secret. Maybe not useless, but both the Ultra Rares are not very good (particularly for Ultra Rares).
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I'm pretty sure Video Tape and John's Medical File do stack.
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@MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky said:
All of you are something else.
So if you were on the hook and have to hold against one of the entities tentacles, you would get tired and eventuality let go or slip, that's what this mechanic does, if you start to get tired pressing your struggle button or slip, that's it.
And also, I don't know why you guys are mashing your key, lmao no wonder you guys are going though keyboards, not because of the game, but because of you. Its like you guys are told to play the piano softly, but instead you just smash the notes and blame it on being pressured.
Instead of going SMASHSMASHPRESSPRESSMSASHPRESPRESSPRESSSMASH
Just go Press, press, press, press, press
The point is that it's not a good game design choice.
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This makes the perk weaker while also not alleviating the one issue people have with it.
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@Mat_Sella said:
No. Instead, just make it a button hold to stop struggling. Like say, hold Spacebar for 2 seconds to stop struggling.
This is the best way to go about it IMO. Makes it so you have to deliberately stop struggling instead of accidentally doing it because it was tedious keeping it going.
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I'd just do what I do as Pig and turn off my TR so that Borrowed Time never activates in the first place.
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I usually go after what I think is the easier target. Sometimes that involves getting the person fresh off the hook; sometimes that involves immediately downing the farmer and having the farmer take the hooked person's place. Sometimes if I suspect DS I will down the unhooked person and go after the farmer.
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@kakakaka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/581638#Comment_581638
i do not agree, while your opinion is valid and you might want to discuss that you're still going offtopic, the title is clear, that is the main focus, the replies i have gotten have got nothing to do with what i was trying to discuss, i actually hoped for someone to take the topic into consideration and agree/disagree/come up with some solution, i mean yeah i understand that you as or as not a killer player might feel in some cases you should have a comeback mechanic if "...." happens, but really this thread isnt about comeback mechanics in general, it's about a comeback mechanic in a specific situation where 99% of the times survivors just hopelessly lose without a saying, for example say you get genrushed, say all the stars are aligning against you as a killer and you're just having a terrible game, sometimes, is it that unusual that sometimes you still manage to get some points/get a few kills? i'm just saying, it's not completely hopeless as it is for survivors after an early kill which is completely game over, also i'll repeat myself, there is nothing that can be done for that to be prevented while as killers you still have assets, 2 examples are ruin which slow down a little the gen rushing and for example non subpar killers like nurse and spirit that can quickly check generators, still i am not trying to discuss this.
That's not really fair, though, because the idea of extending it both ways factors into my opinion of the idea as you have suggested.
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@kakakaka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/581609#Comment_581609
bloodlust does help with looping maybe not so much with excessively safe loops but you're not supposed to stay on 1 survivor for that and as there are safe spots for survivors there are also dangerous spots for survivors to be, still you saying that "pallet looping should have never been introduced" is 100% just you venting your frustration in the wrong thread, i honestly do not care if you feel that way it's completely your opinion which i am not going to get into a debate about.
i asked you in my response to you to list which come back mechanics survivors have in this scenario and you didn't list any so what am i supposed to believe here? i understood that you were saying that killers should equally have something if survivors do get that comeback mechanic but i did reply what i think about it and i am discussing about a comeback mechanic for survivors so you saying that even killers should have one is something for another thread, in this thread i am talking about a comeback mechanic for survivors anything else is not relevant, also i did write a maybe with a question mark after i kind of described what sort of impression you gave me, dont take it to heart.
"i did reply what i think about it and i am discussing about a comeback mechanic for survivors so you saying that even killers should have one is something for another thread, in this thread i am talking about a comeback mechanic for survivors anything else is not relevant"
The thing is that such a mechanic affects both sides even if it is intended for one side, so IMO the possibility of such a system being made for both sides is still relevant to this discussion and should be discussed.
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I think a system like this (assuming it is a good idea to implement at all) would have to work both ways where Survivors get a bonus to gens if they get screwed early game while they get some sort of penalty if they are able to completely gen rush without the Killer being able to accomplish much, if at all. Not saying that it should be implemented at all, but it makes sense that a system like this needs to be give and take.
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The only time DCing is not frowned upon, as far as I can tell, is if something (or something) is causing the game to last indefinitely and be unable to finish.
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Relentless, Bitter Murmur, Fire Up, NOED. All perks making up for failure!