Sypherpathic
Sypherpathic
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2336199#Comment_2336199
Why do Survivors keep using 'The Killer can remove us from the game!' as some sort of argument for anything at all?
That is his job. He wins by removing people from the game. This should not be shocking information 5 years into the game's life.
HOW and WHEN it happens means nothing; you don't get to decide the Killer can't remove you yet because you did not get some sort of fun quota.
Sure. At some point, enough survivor players will decide something else is more fun and leave. Your queue times will go up and at some point, the game loses more viability.
Sure, it's baked in for killers to send survivors out of the match (I'm feeling literal today so calling it 'killing' doesn't really fit the game's story since the survivors just go back to the campfire in lore), but when players feel punished by other players, they will leave the game. How is that good for anyone?
I think killers should be looking at how to make the match fun for everyone playing. Sure, you should still 'do what you're there for', but for myself, I will sometimes avoid death-hooking someone and look elsewhere and similar. To me, if you're playing just to 1-2-3 kill survivors, you're missing the point of the game.
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I play what I like. I DO like having some additional perks and so forth.
When I'm wanting to just play for max bloodpoints, my leatherface has some good BP perks.
When I really want to kill survivors, I play Meyers.
Other than that, it's fun to goof around with Billy and I try Spirit, Nurse and Oni sometimes.
Beyond that, it's just if I feel like doing some daily that comes up.
I am absolute garbage with Blight. Holy mackerel. I really have to respect people who get good with this killer. Of course, I've only tried once.
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There's finesse as killer and there's basic b###h killers. You're just running into killers with no artistry.
As I've said before in these forums about killers who just stand there hitting you on the hook, they're probably kids with minor sadistic tendencies. I suppose new killers might not know better but they wouldn't be at higher ranks.
To me, a good killer exercising some finesse will manage to double-hook all four survivors and then possibly kill them off at the end of the generator cycle or maybe during EGC. That gives everyone a change to play and enjoy the game and also shows that the killer is really in control much more than just camping and 1-2-3 hooking each survivor in turn.
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@GoshJosh said:
The reason is that it is meant to tell you simply how many total hooks you've gotten. Not who, so that there is less encouragement of tunneling one survivor.
Honestly, it's kind of a shame because it could also do the opposite - I try to actively do something else with a person that is already on death hook if I can remember. Sometimes it's fun to carry them around to try to catch other survivors. I might just 'present' them somewhere like in the middle of the street in Haddon field to try to bait the other survivors into a chase. I usually like to try to spread some hooks around before killing anyone, given the opportunity.
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@WTBacon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2322869#Comment_2322869
"current gen" is referring to next gen.
Game is completely busted for many people right now.
Oh I see, my bad.
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@SnakeSound222 said:
Did they seriously break current gen consoles too?
Once the 'next gen' comes out, the prior gen always gets screwed. That's just the way it is and anyone that says otherwise is not operating in reality.
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Tough call. We have 2 PS4s and also have DBD on PC. The problem is that my wife and I both work at our desks all day and don't really want to sit at our desks to play any games. So we'd prefer to play from the couch, hence the playstations.
Honestly, most of us have seen this before. Game makers pay lip service to the 'old' consoles while actually focusing on the new consoles. They continue to SAY they are optimizing or whatever, but they just do things to make the 'next gen' consoles look prettier and shrug and try to look confused when it comes to performance on the old consoles. Tale as old as time.
So yeah, I've been looking at other games. We've been playing games together for almost 10 years on multiple platforms, we won't have trouble finding fun somewhere else.
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To me it's just more about maximizing bloodpoints if that's what you're going for. So hook juggling survivors, inciting a lot of pallet throws so I can break them, trying to get as much chase as possible, like that.
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Yeah, I wasn't paying a LOT of attention, but I'm leveling up Leon to get the teachables so I was just spending those 500K points. Suddenly partway through, I got a load screen then back to the main screen with a connection error.
It LOOKED like it forgot what I bought on the bloodweb while also simultaneously not restoring some of the spent balance.
I didn't lose that much but I just thought it was me being inattentive.
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I mean, I intend to try to have fun but yeah, performance issues and disconnects just move me on to other experiences.
I'm not so much on the same boat with most when it comes to them saying they'd have better events and so forth... Clearly it didn't happen and that kinda sucks, but it is what it is. Events are additional experiences.
Now we're seeing even further degradation of the basic game experience, which is really unfortunate.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2322308#Comment_2322308
I already agreed that Survivors should get BP for 'distracting' a camping Killer, to remove the sting of being camped, and make it so short matches are not so painful.
And there should NOT be some balance based on the fact that Survivors can't remove Killers; this is literally the premise of the game. Survivors hide and use pallets to SLOW DOWN the Killer, not fight back. To claim that is a flaw is to misunderstand what game balance is as a whole,ad to misunderstand this game as a whole.
Also; the Killer HAS to be stronger 1v1 because he has to be as strong as 4 Survivors. If 1 Survivor could be as strong as 1 Killer, than a 4V1 would ALWAYS end in Survivor's favor. So saying the arenas have to favor Survivors is to, again, misunderstand the entire game.
If the Killer has to face 4 people, and the map favors those 4 people over the ONE Killer, then the Killer has almost no chance. We already see that in some maps.
So, again; I agree that Survivors should get BP if a Killer camps.
But in no way whatsoever, should a Killer be punished, because some Survivors think camping is 'unfair' because it eliminates Survivors...In a game where the Killer's goal is to eliminate people!
That's basically saying 'It's unfair (or 'unfun') that the Killer killed me. Punish them.'
Oh yeah, I completely agree on not punishing the killer. Being stationary while (theoretically), the other survivors are working on generators or other goals is enough. I suppose that's enough for this discussion. My point was that one survivor can't really ruin the killer's fun as they can at least strike back or move on to other goals, survivors or areas of the map. A survivor can have the fun sucked right out of the game if a killer makes it their goal to get that survivor killed first above doing anything else.
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Everyone seems to like when they do custom gen and hook dress-ups as well. That might have been an appreciated addition.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2322184#Comment_2322184
No, I don't. Because the Killer's goal is to remove a person from playing the game.
This is how Counter Strike works.
This is how PubG and Fortnite and Apex Legends work.
It's almost like your goal is to avoid being eliminated. *Insert Shocked Pikachu here*
Only people who can't stand losing pretend it's a problem in games where the goal of both, or one, side is to eliminate the other.
The purpose of a game is entertainment and some might say fun. Or at least, at it's barest, some sense of accomplishment or engagement.
Being on a hook while a killer stares at you or while a killer pretends to 'patrol' a tiny area near the hook when there are three other survivors and a bunch of generators to engage with is not fun or engaging or anything for the person on the hook.
Honestly, I don't think that aligning with the killer's 'goals' should be at the top of the list for how the game is designed. I think that providing an entertaining match for 5 people should be the goal. Since survivors can be removed by some killer behaviors and the opposite is not true, in some arenas, some things should benefit the 4 players playing survivor over the one playing killer - at the very least, the killer cannot be removed before the match completes, so this is something that survivors have to face.
In any case, the discussion isn't about removing players from the match but about giving something to the player that is stuck on hook while a killer does nothing but pay attention to that person on the hook. It happens kind of a lot. I get rewarded for chases, so why not something for keeping the killer's attention (albeit unintentionally), on hook?
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@Shaped said:
Keeping the killer busy while not doing anything. But when I think about it doing gens is not much different and it gives you points.
LOL maybe on hook we could hold a button to get the BP?
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Wow, not even copy/paste, just a change of the name in the database?
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I voted other. Any killer is fine, but I find some boring to play against in most circumstances. Hag and unfortunately Nemesis spring to mind. There are killers that I hate because I don't like their abilities but they're still engaging to play against, like Doctor.
But for instance, the hag has too many traps. They will hook someone and lay like 10 of those things around the hooked person. It's too much.
Also the Jokester or Joker or Tricker or Trickster or whatever. Running while they throw their dumb million little PP knives at me is irritating and boring AF. I think it's the animation that I am forced to go through spastically.
I usually am fine with most killers, but once I find out it's one of these, I just want to get to the next match with a fun killer/player opponent.
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It's stupid, not reportable.
I think we all hit that match from time to time where the killer just acts... a little TOO off, even for our little murder simulation.
When killers just keep hitting me on the hook, I assume it's a kid of something. Maybe someone that hasn't played much, but it definitely feels immature (again, as I play my pretend-murder game, I guess??).
Anyway, usually just move on to the next match and shake my head at how sage and mature I am compared to that jackass.
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I would also be interested in this. This is often called 'i-frames' or 'invulnerability frames'. I find it to be inconsistent which is no surprise because I'm sure it relies on the same positional tracking that anything related to killers hitting survivors does.
But yeah, quite often it's possible to get in there and get the save and take a hit without getting injured. There again, often I do still get hit but I'm not sure if it's in the exact same frame or maybe the killer's position/survivor's position matters? Unsure.
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@ethan99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2316191#Comment_2316191
Yes that's killer 101 lol.
You counter my flashlight? I now know you know how to counter in which I will try to protect them in different ways. (rush gens etc.)
Now that I know that you have a counter to my counter to your flashlight counter, I will be forced to counter it.
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@ethan99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2316160#Comment_2316160
I understand how flashlights can be annoying. Which is my post entirely, I only use it to protect the weaker survivors...
If there were a better build I would pick it, but atm flashlights are ideal for pushing you off weaker survivors.
If it's effective, that's great. I try my best of course to turn away and so forth. I'm still gonna go for those weaker survivors in some situations...
Definitely if I perceive that one survivor is trying to gain attention or protect other survivors, I try to take advantage of that if I can. Probably that's killer 101, though.
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@ethan99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2316038#Comment_2316038
Bro, if you get a flashlight save on console I respect you! As an ex console player flashlights are impossible, once I switched to PC they are pretty easy.
I respect your stance as killer, I understand your response as killer, hence I run DS x( I will try to waste as much time of yours because my team mates are bad :( Also my meaning is not aggressive but defensive I don't want you going after that bold Dwight.
Funny enough, I only half go out of my way to avoid DS. I do on purpose try not to down the same person twice in a row but sometimes, it's just unavoidable. If I do that and you have DS, you're welcome to it. Likewise if I decide not to respect pallets, enjoy your stuns. But for some reason, flash lights just make me want to get rid of that person... to a point. If they're good at chases on top of it, I usually peel off to find someone else.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2316054#Comment_2316054
Macro users are players who downloaded a rapidfire autoclicker that they use with flashlights. It has no practical use except to be annoying; it creates an extremely glitchy sound and doesn't deplete the flashlight's battery in any noticeable way, so they can use it for a very long time.
Ah OK, thanks. I have a macro capable mouse and keyboard on my PC but don't find much use for them as I play very few fast-reaction type games where I assume they are helpful.
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@Laluzi said:
I avoid players that are obviously trying to get my attention and want me to chase them, but I will admit that I'll try to get a flashlight user out of the way over another player. Part because I want them to burn their flashlight trying to blind me at pallets rather than preserving it for saves, part because the sooner I either waste the click stick or kill them, the less time I have to waste checking the area every time I pick someone up.
OTOH, they're kind of nice because if you do stop and search your surroundings after downing someone, you will usually find the flashlight user and get a free hit on them, and gens move slower when a player is following the killer around every time they get into a chase.
I consider flashlight saves and pallet blinds very annoying but fair, but if a survivor clicks the flashlight at me, I interpret that as either bait or BMing (or both) depending on the circumstance and react accordingly (ignore/murder with extreme prejudice.) Macro users are the worst; I always think my computer is having a seizure and is about to crash before I identify the fly in the room.
I'm unfamiliar with 'macro users? Please elaborate.
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To both my wife and me, he seems very fast. He's hooking someone and it feels like 3 seconds later, he's over here across the map punching me in the ****. I've gone against a number of them that don't tentacle at all, just run around punching stuff, usually me.
As a side note, for some reason even playing as survivor his clomping footfalls are entertaining and fun to hear, somehow. Also menacing.
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I am a survivor and also a potato. I have never had success with flashlights (I very rarely play on PC where I bet it's a little easier but mostly play on PS4). I do sometimes take them (and also broken keys), just as half a joke to see if the killer singles me out.
As a killer, I will definitely single you out if you try to use a flashlight on me. It's just a thing. You're being aggressive in a perfectly permissible way and I am returning the favor. I will want to kill someone who is blinding me with flashlights as quickly as possible and they usually oblige by trying to stay close by to use their flashlight on me. Nothing personal, I just want you out so I don't get blinded more.
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@Cutiaddu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2309273#Comment_2309273
Unless you have a ps5 the game on console runs like poop
Not only that, but the performance lag is associated with activities in game. Sometimes, it seems like you can tell when the killer is using a power or something because there's lag. When someone's in a chase, you can almost track activity by the hitching of the performance when people vault, throw hatchets, etc.
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@Cutiaddu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2309057#Comment_2309057
No I don't follow discussions too much sorry
Well, I may be wrong but this is like the 1 millionth thread, LITERALLY, on these forums complaining about the map updates... :D
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@Cutiaddu said:
New reworked maps have trash aesthetic. Autohaven is the ugliest map in dbd history even with ultra graphics. Old autohaven was decent but the new one is so ugly, the map feels too bright just a overall mess in terms of aesthetic, even the floor or terrain makes my eyes hurt. Next the new macmillan, oh god poor MacMillan, the old blue sky was so good, now it's just some generic nighty themed lighting. I think that overall new maps tend to have better textures but in reality they just get uglier and uglier.
You have presented this as the unpopular opinion when I am sure you know that on these forums, this is the common opinion.
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With some changes to chase mechanics and a focus on JUST that, it could be. Survivors would be rewarded by the order they were downed and how long they lasted, the killer would be rewarded by how fast he killed everyone.
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@vladspellbinder said:
I understand the devs are doing a decent job at making the game. I also understand that pushing out new content every three months to make more money off of "sale the new" might not be what the devs themselves want to do but are being forced to do by people higher up in the cooperate food chain. Because, yes, I understand it is a cooperation and its goal is to make money.
What I don't agree with is that what we have gotten is a quality product. It is still fun, yes, and it mostly works, yes but the amount of problems the game has that have been allowed to stick around for years is just mind blowing to me. I'm a computer programmer who has taken college level classes on both game design and game programming and am working towards being a game programmer. Looking at old and new patch logs, old and new bug reports, old and new customer complaints and just plain playing the game myself I am professionally astounded at some of the things that hasn't been fixed yet or are allowed to recur. Players, Killer or Survivor, should not be getting stuck in the environment at all any more. A new update shouldn't make the game unstable anymore. These are just two examples of problems they have fixed in the past but have now reoccurred because they didn't take the time to make sure all of their code interacts properly, which is also something that has happened in the past. They did not learn from their past mistakes and that doesn't fill me confidence they will do a better job in the future.
As I said above I am willing to believe it is not wholly the programmer's and developer's fault, that they are being pressured from above to keep pushing out new content because the higher ups don't trust that what they currently have will keep selling and have to always be providing new content. But if the developers themselves want to do a better job at their game they need to push back against that pressure and say "No. No, we are not going to make new content. We are going to fix what we have first and then we'll make new content."
I fully understand that New Player Acquisition is really important for any multiplayer game but at a certain point you need to prioritize Old Player Retention over it or all of the old players are going to leave and tell anyone and everyone to not bother becoming a New Player because of how they treat their Old Players. I'm a "New Player", I have been playing this game for less than a year and I really love it and enjoy it but I'm already jaded about how the player base is treated and didn't buy either of the latest two DLCs because of how the updates broke the game and how the devs reacted to player concerns.
I'm going to play in and try and enjoy the anniversary event myself. I'm going to keep playing the game and trying to have fun with it. (You know, when I can actually do so if the servers are working for me.) But until the devs actually fix their game instead of just pushing out new content I'm not going to be giving them any more of my money than I already have and I encourage more people to do the same. If we hit their bottom line hard enough whomever it is that is pushing for new content over fixing existing content will have to actually listen to us and fix what is broken.
I mean, I always have that same outlook as well. I play a game as long as I find it reasonably engaging and leave it when something else comes along that grabs me. In fact, I stopped playing DBD from about December to around April while playing some other things and doing non-game stuff. Of course, I think that feedback is important as well and I'd take less umbrage with people sharing their opinion of events after they happen rather than s******g on them ahead of time. I intend to try to enjoy the event but sure, I might not. For the most part, though, I'm not looking for it to re-energize my interest in the game as that's already there.
I suppose I am talked out on the subject and mostly see that it's important for people to share whatever they want on forums like this - it just gets tiring seeing the 100th edgy 'this will suck/does suck' post when the items in complaint are already well documented and have already been posted into oblivion.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302208#Comment_2302208
Not on teams in software but in other jobs yes. What ends up happening is the members that do a good job and actually try to do well get more work shoved on them because less is given to the bad worker rather than firing them. The good workers get burned out and make more mistakes or they get frustrated and either stop performing as well since bad worker gets away with it or just quits - that one bad worker brings down the whole team.
I have not worked in development but my husband creates software for use at his company and they would not be allowed to publish anything nearly as buggy/glitchy as DBD (or most games now) - the investors would be outraged because it'd impact their money. The mentality in gaming software however is much different, it's "release now with bugs/glitches we'll (maybe) fix it later" because gamers have become accepting of this - they still buy the broken game/dlc instead of holding back their money demanding it be fixed first. Anytime someone complains of the bugs/glitches, even when they're so bad they are game breaking, it's met with people saying "oh, every game has bugs/glitches." Gamers as a whole shouldn't be OK with games being as bug/glitch ridden as they are.
At a restaurant if you're given raw chicken do you go "OK, the cook did their best, he delivered the best product he could" and eat it anyway because you enjoy chicken or do you send it back and asked ask for them to fully cook the chicken? Releasing product that still needs work is like getting uncooked chicken, sure you can eat it and hope for the best but it'd be alot more enjoyable if it was done right.
I agree with what you're saying. My beef is with people saying "oh this future event will suck". The food analogy doesn't work that well and sure, I understand wanting a better product. I suppose I must concede that calling something 'hot garbage' is just opinion and I'm sure I would agree about things that don't work right with whoever said that.
My feeling on the event is that I'll probably enjoy it and I'm not going to shoot it down just because it's not something new or in line with some past promise to make events more unique.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302105#Comment_2302105
You've really never worked with someone that does a terrible job because they don't care or know they can get away with it? I have plenty of stories of coworkers that did a bad job because they knew they could get away with it. It happens at big companies where you make $50k a year and at waitressing where you make $5hr + tips.
Sure, but that's just one person. You've been on entire teams, working on very public software, where this is so pervasive that it comes out in the product? My experience is that some things are very difficult to do and it can be very challenging to put out great software and it doesn't require everyone to be incompetent or sabotaging the effort for me not to have a great experience with a piece of software.
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302141#Comment_2302141
Explain how it does not make sense....and then explain how you come to that conclusion and also explain why you think everyone in the world does their best at what they do.
Sure. Your cartoon analogy has no relevance. Why does this matter in the current discussion? When I was little, I believed in Santa Claus at some point. I'm sure many appreciate the fact that you grew up.
So are you making the argument that it's naive and child-like to believe that (admittedly, I mean on -average), people are doing their best to provide the best product or contribute their best effort based on circumstances that they can? Sure, I'll concede that 100% of people are not churning out 100% effort, 100% of the time. But I wouldn't want the whips of hell on me all work day any more than you probably would. To me, for the major issues, it's obvious that the company is aware of them. How is posting threads that 'the anniversary event will be terrible,' contributing in any way to the conversation aside from looking for echo-chamber, 'yeah you go' responses. Those making no effort ######### on those making an effort constantly and it's tiring, so I posted.
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302121#Comment_2302121
idk what fantasy world you live in....and then claim that you think people on this forum are 10.....
When I was younger cartoons told me that the biggest things plaging the planet were poachers and the environment and racism is something from the far far FAR past....but then....I grew up.
Imagine if this is truely the outcome of a world were everyone does their best at the work they do.....yikez man.
This response makes no sense. Again, I think perhaps you need to realize that you either don't do a good job yourself intentionally or you have a low opinion of others because they aren't you.
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@TheMadCat said:
It'll be my first anniversary event, so I'll enjoy it as much as possible. But I understand people being disappointed by X or Y.
Most people seem to just be trying to be edgy or want to be upset because they're not getting something hugely different from the coding that's been built for past events that of course will be used and possibly built upon depending on what all the priorities are for the team(s).
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302105#Comment_2302105
im 100% sure PLENTY of people dont do their best no, and these devs most certainly dont, well they do their best to do as little work as possible, put in as little effort as they can while making a lot of money, that they do very well.
I think that this likely says more about your own work ethic than that of others.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302101#Comment_2302101
That sounds like a longer version of what I said.
Is English your first language? Do you routinely use phrases like 'hot garbage' about other things in your life? Do you criticize your friends and family like this?\ I don't know... I think of the people working on this game as other human beings who deserve a level of respect, I guess? Maybe I'm just in a weird mood today.
To me, if a game feels that bad, I move on to another. Sure, feedback is valuable, but when you're posting the 100th 'dur hurr the anniversary event will be trash' thread, you maybe should move on.
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@BioX said:
"and understand that those working on it want to produce the best product they can and will do their best to deliver it."
this is a joke right?, this entire post?
So do you have a job? Do you have a work ethic? Do you deliberately do a bad job?
Do you think that people working elsewhere, because they aren't you, don't do their best?
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@TAG said:
Tl;dr - Stop complaining because your complaints don't matter?
No, stop projecting that a future thing will be terrible because you need to move on because you are bored with a game that you can't let go of because of sunken cost fallacy.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302050#Comment_2302050
So you think they deliberately stopped trying to fix this stuff in favor of the cosmetic bug fix?
Yeah, kinda feels like everyone is just making stuff up about what's going on behind the scenes. So having been in the software industry for, oh, I don't know, 30 years, I'll make up my version.
Sure, they're working on the noisiest issues and bugs but they don't have those done. Some people on the dev staff are working on other items because everyone can't all work on the same issue. So they put out what they can or what is done and keep working on the main priority issues that didn't make it into this one. The other option, I would guess, would be to release nothing. They are continuing to work on the biggest issues, then using staff to work on other issues by priority all the time and releasing what they can that's made it past process.
Why is this so hard for the average gamer to understand? I think at some point, we're verging on conspiracy theory in assuming that the people who work on a piece of software wouldn't absolutely love to fix whatever thing users are massively complaining about in any given week.
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@Brightened said:
Thanks for the advice everyone. It just seems like the looping is much more difficult for this killer. And if you even get a relatively small/narrow map, that increases by like 25% lol
I don't think it's more difficult, per se, just requires some adaptation as it's SIMILAR to what we're all used to but slightly different/a blend of what we already know. I feel like it's not tentacles that are the problem but just his speed without tentacle and using M1. Feels sometimes like by the time I hear his footfalls, he's already in range and punching.
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@Spencerjnlouis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2282684#Comment_2282684
You're talking like I don't know how long BEhaviour takes to make changes like this
I know, but your post sounds like an ultimatum. I'm sure you didn't expect it to impact the actual process and were likely just looking for some like-minded people to maybe say 'same'.
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I mean, I don't think this is going to hurry things along...
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I just want to know how to switch the head on the police uniform. I find occasional videos but process unclear.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2270406#Comment_2270406
Well it is tricky in a 4v1 to be sure. :) But as a Survivor as long as I did my best and my team wins and they are still in contention even if I go out before the rest, that works for me too. There is no "I" in team.
I suppose like anyone, I hate when I get caught first, then basically caught again and again before I can get anything useful done. Part of me knows that this is just a sucky match where I am likely doing poorly, but it does feel like bad luck can abound in this game. I also like to feel like I contributed 'enough' before I am out of the picture!
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2270370#Comment_2270370
It'd be pretty strange to have a slasher game where the killer can't actually kill anyone...
I think that if you were to do this and hooks still remained a meaningful way for the killer to make progress, you would ultimately have the same result - a player who gets 'tunneled' under this system would still be around, but their ability to contribute to the team was nerfed so hard so early that they may as well be dead and in the next game, because they're mostly dead weight in this one. All you could really do is have chases and stall the killer, and killers aren't going to target players who can barely touch gens when they could be chasing someone who's still a threat to them.
Yeah, this is a good point. I fully understand why I am not a game designer :D
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/257042/what-is-fun-baby-dont-hurt-me
The challenge of it and pretty much nothing else. A victory is meaningless unless the outcome was in contention. If I know the outcome in the first minute or so, the match is already boring. I don't want a blowout. I want it to go down as close to the wire as possible.
This is also a great quote - I wonder how to make sure to design a game where there's contention for all five players would even be done, without someone feeling either stomped on or like they are the one doing the stomping, even with a great disparity of skill.
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@Laluzi said:
I have the most fun when I'm able to interact meaningfully with the other players - especially in unexpectedly friendly or camaraderie-laden ways - and when I neither dominate nor get dominated. I like having to put effort in to get results; I don't like when my effort doesn't pay off and I don't like when I get results without effort, because then there's very little engagement for me. I may be a weirdo for this, but I despise getting 4ks unless it's a situation where I stopped the last survivors at the gates. A 4k at 3-4 gens remaining is just depressing. I also feel bad about 4-man escapes when the killer got <=4 hooks.
As survivor, this means not getting removed from the game immediately, having chases where I manage to stall the killer, getting some difficult objectives done or enabling their completion, and rescuing a teammate (as in bodyblocking, luring the killer away from them, or a smart BT save, not just routine safe unhooks in a dark corner of the map.) As a killer, this means mindgaming and successful predictions, having chases that last some time but don't stretch upwards of a minute, not getting significantly outplayed, having the opportunity to be merciful and acknowledge funny moments, and not having the survivors blatantly screw with me. When survivors BM me, any fun I'm having immediately vanishes, because I want to have fun with other people, not be the targeted source of entertainment. At that point I'm no longer playing casually and instead playing to punish, which isn't an enjoyable state for me even when I get what I want.
I wonder if some solution like... slower gen progress for more hooks or inability to do certain things for being hooked more would be something interesting. So the survivors don't die, exactly, just see a diminishing return for play... maybe unless they do so in a co-ordinated fashion with less-hooked survivors.
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@Sadsnacks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2270300#Comment_2270300
You can play that way and not get punished for it if you just equip BT in every match, but then you're always running BT. It's unfortunate if you want to play with different perks .. but if it suits your playstyle it might make sense.
I play a lot of solo and I always bring BT and it feels like I'm always carrying my team because I almost never see anyone else playing BT. I'd rather run a totem hunting or plunderer build but doing so usually means we'll all die 😔
My wife and I also suffer this "Borrowed TIme Conundrum". I will often run Kindred so that everyone doesn't run in for rescues but we get really discouraged when we could have gotten the rescue and instead, another player without BT runs in and then it ends up being a situation where the killer gets a second down because of lack of BT... So it goes...\
I am what the OP is complaining about directly. I actually like an 'unhook' build. Borrowed Time, We're Gonne Live Forever, Deliverance and an exhaustion perk is one of my favorite builds... And to OP's point, I am terrible at chases.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Fun for me depends on the role.
As survivor, a fun game for me involves one where both me and the killer have displayed their best skill, be it I win or I lose. If it's a long, 15 minute match, where our team have to make risky, desperate plays to get the last gen done while the killer is on a 12 hook hunt; if the resources are critically low and we have to get this gen done or we're all dead- that kind of stress makes it fun for me. What isn't fun is being downed in 15 seconds because of either poor map or killer design (there are many offenders to this list) only to be camped and tunneled at 5 gens.
I like to play the video game, thank you very much.
Which is one of the reasons I really hate killers who lack 4v1 pressure but have good 1v1 pressure- at least hate to face. Their counter is boring- holding M1 is dull.
As killer, the same sort of standards apply. I like long games where both sides can show skill and adept to how they play. Have I used my ability too much, so the survivor expects it and prepars to dodge, or do they think I'll know they're preparing for me to do that and instead keep running around the loop, greeding it so that if I were to not swing I'd get the down but if I used my power I'd miss? I like giving everyone in the game a chance to at least play the game they paid for instead of having everyone dead by the 3 minute mark (the occasional game like that is fun but if every game I had was done in 4 minutes I'd hate it).
I don't think this applies to everyone, but I like it when the matches are long and everyone gets the chance to participate their particular skillset.
I like your last sentence. This is what I think of as 'churn'. Everyone's ability to participate and have some kind of (non-dull) experience. It sucks as the killer to get "gen-rushed" and it sucks as the survivor to get 1-2-3 hooked even if maybe your skill isn't up to the killer's level. I wonder if there's some way to make the game fun even under these circumstances or if the best course is to get out and on to the next match...