SuzuKR
SuzuKR
About
- Username
- SuzuKR
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201791#Comment_3201791
I don't disagree that the slugging changes are inherently anti-snowball, like I think we can all agree that's what they are but I think you should've mentioned this in your original example because all I got from your initial argument was
"I down someone quickly and get punished if I also go for another person" which is why I responded in the way that I did. If you had mentioned the usage of limited time powers/perks then I'd have gotten your argument a bit better.
Like I said I'm not fully onboard with the changes either but I think there's potential for healthy changes in here somewhere.
The point is there’s a large amount of varying situations why slugging is a good call, and a basekit self recovery is the wrong way to go about BM situations like idiots slugging people to death out of spite.
@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201807#Comment_3201807
Slugging as a primary decision should not be the intelligent decision. It is not desirable. Choosing to slug vs. hooking should be a meaningful risk reward decision, not a perk check.
??? It is a risk reward. You are literally giving up a potential hook in order to immediately go for more chases. It’s not a perk check, someone should come pick them up.
-
@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201764#Comment_3201764
I'm sorry was the pickup 4.5s? No it was 45s.
Pallet/Flashlights - If it takes a player more than 45s to take care of them instead of tanking the pallet and permanently removing the map resource I think they have greater problems than self-pickups. I think they are simply very bad at the game and need to seek to improve in a multitude of ways.
Starstruck - Lasts 30s from hook/drop, so you have more than enough time to reach the 1st person you hit, hook them, and then the 2nd/3rd as well.
Oni - 45s minus 7s per down. If you get 3 downs that is 24s. Lets use the same Starstruck logic here. If you got 3 people downed in 30, you take ~6s to lift/hook and ~8s to travel to a hook, you have more than enough time to hook 3 people. (If you got all 4 you instawin.)
Plague/Myers/Haunted Grounds - 60s timer and largely the same as the Starstruck/Oni scenario. Plus if you know you are reaching ~half power/timer remaining you should go pick the inital slug up with ~15s to spare of the timer after you hook. Easy counterplay, easy solution.
With those out of the way there are no sort of situations where the 45s timer is punishing anything other than BM.
You do realize there’s travel time, cooldown on attacks, and pickup time, right? This is literally punishing killers for making proper use of their given time.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201797#Comment_3201797
This is fair. Because the problem is comes from both sides.
Add UB to survivor basekit and now slugging is so weak.
Remove UB part and add new mori system into game. Now slugging is so strong and UB will be needed perk for survivors.
So whatever they do with this system, we will have new issues in game.
I think pretty much the entirety of the dev notes this time is a horrendous idea, ngl.
-
@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201716#Comment_3201716
If you choose to slug to chase a healthy survivor, you have to accept that the first guy will get up. The trade you are making in this scenario is deciding to chase a potentially closer to death target or weaker link while leaving another person disabled and not repairing gens for 45 seconds. You are typically not going to get 2 hooks out of slugging unless you are slugging for a quick down on someone injured, which is still a trade or opportunity beneficial to you.
Look at it like this, even now in the live game, someone coming to get the dude up off the floor is 16 seconds x 2 people's time or 32 seconds. 45 seconds for them to get up on their own is actually slower and is more pressure.
Yes, the killer should have to accept the survivor will simply get back up on their own despite the killer making the smart play for that situation because… why? How is it fair to punish literally making the intelligent call? Someone should have to come pick them up, they should not be given a self pickup because they got downed near someone else/an unhookable area/etc.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201734#Comment_3201734
They are not rewarding? 45 seconds is pretty long time. One survivor is on ground and one survivor is in chase. 2 survivors are not doing anything. You already have pressure on them?
And if they are gonna add this mori system into game like that, slugging builds will be popular and strong. So ofcourse they have to add something for survivors.
I can see builds with Knock Out + Third Seal + Undying without this basekit UB. So why if they won't add this basekit UB, the question is why they are buffing slugging then? Do we really need to buff slugging?
I would rather have neither of those?
-
@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201756#Comment_3201756
Not really your or my place to say what is the "worse" gameplay decision when all of that is determined by both the player(s) and the outcome. My interpretation of the changes is "hook more, slug less". Obviously there are already glaring issues like pallet/FL saves, certain perks and the like. I'm not fully onboard with it but I am trying to look at it from all angles here
Like most killers will get punished if they play the way you described in current DBD (Unless they are Nurse, Blight or a good Twins). Most M1 killers can't afford to slug people like that anyway unless survs make it extremely easy (Which in your example, you said it's at least 30s which I would call fast but not easy.) I hope you'd agree.
Oni/Plague/Myers in power. Limited/pseudo-limited effects like Haunted Grounds/Starstruck/Devour Hope Exposed (given people will try to kill it)/etc. Pinhead during Chain Hunt when multiple are nearby, or having downed someone and someone is solving the Lament Configuration nearby. Dredge during Nightfall and Killer Instinct shows others are nearby too. Etc etc. These are all examples of things that get majorly punished for making smart use of limited durations.
-
@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201734#Comment_3201734
Why is the killer not hooking?
45s is self-care time, which is quite long in terms of gametime. It may not be long in terms of human lifespan, but we are talking gametime here.
Personally I would have 30s to reach 95%, then another 30s to go from 95->100%, for a minute total (self-pickup perks remove the speed penalty at 95%). With programming difficulties however I can accept 45s as the middle time. If a Killer is slugging in excess of 45s then 99.99% of the time they are BM-ing. As I've said in other threads I am all for punishing BM, and I would add an entity block to the exit gates if you crouch a random number more than 2 times within the gate confines for the block being 30s.
Because there are all sorts of situations where not slugging is literally the dumber and worse play? Like when other survivors are close by, if they’re on a pallet, if they’re in the open against people with flashlights, if you have a limited duration effect (eg Haunted/Starstruck), if you have a limited duration power (Oni/Plague/Myers), etc? And even a decent chase against a good survivor is easily ~30s?
-
@Jangles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201716#Comment_3201716
Just press space and put them on the hook lmao.
Yes, just make the intentionally dumber and worse gameplay decision by not slugging when multiple are in the vicinity.
@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201716#Comment_3201716
Surely if you're doing that well you don't need to slug, though
Like you could just hook, go after the 'nearby' survivor and down them in 30s or however long and now you have a hook and a down.
Or you could just m1 them, go back and hook and then finish the chase. You're still creating pressure either way
Except. That is literally the worse gameplay decision (unless the one downed is just outright dead on hook). Hooking means you instantly change it from what would start at a 16s heal while they don’t have recovery progress to bring them back to standing, to what becomes a 1s unhook to bring them back to standing. Also the time in pickup, carry, and hook, all of which is time for the nearby survivors to make distance. You are literally expecting a person to play intentionally worse.
-
Another reminder that infinite self-pickup is such an insanely busted ability that it’s been restricted to being permanently Broken for the entire match, or the killer running a Hex that the survivors have to actively leave up which is its own share of potential huge risks.
And now it’s just a 45s timer basekit with no downside or restriction or limited number of uses whatsoever. Amazing.
-
@mizark3 said:
A variable time might be too difficult to adjust to and I wouldn't necessarily trust the times to make the most sense/not get lost and disorganized (45/60/75 somehow becoming 45/75/45/60/75). Plus the extreme variability of times can more often cause confusion and accusations of cheating, so without a greater levels of anti-cheat protection I would say the static 45s is fine as is.
Basekit self-pickups only punishes BMing Killers in the vast majority of realistic use cases. The .01% of Killers being "bullied" are just going to be winning slower. They still will win that match, it just would take a little bit longer. Killers refusing to hook should be punished, and this is a fair way to do so.
45s is not a long amount of time at all. Why are survivors being rewarded for ignoring their downed teammates?
-
"45s"
"quite long"
Okay, so you chase a survivor. You do good in chase and so you down the first in ~30s chase. 2.7s attack cooldown. You know another is nearby, so you find them and begin chase again (several seconds). You do good in chase again and down them in ~30s. 2.7s attack cooldown. You head back towards wherever the first survivor is (several seconds). They have been back up and gone, with zero help from anyone else. Let alone there being a third in the area that would be smart to start chase with normally.
This is with having done good in both chases. Average chase and you go into 40-50s. At which point the first is back up. And this is repeatable again and again. Toss in an Unbreakable and it drops to a mere 22.5s per recover instead.
-
@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201669#Comment_3201669
Well thats where the idea of dynamic value comes in, maybe the penalty is so great you can just barely squeeze in another pick up before bleed out so the next time you go down its ~5 seconds from death (so killer can still get hook value)
or maybe its so high that without perks you can't get more than 1 basekit pickup
If a survivor wants a self-pickup, they should have to use a perk for it. Infinite use? That’s so busted it requires being permanently Broken (or there being a Hex up). Not suitable? Then a one-time single use.
-
A static not ever because an infinite self pick up shouldn’t be basekit.
-
Why should someone be rewarded for their teammates’ failure to pick them up?
-
I find it amusing how the argument is "How come the killer didn’t pick up for 45s" as if:
- 45s isn’t a short time to chase other nearby survivors, down (2.7s), pick up (3s), carry (1-15/16s), hook (1.5s), and then come back for the slug if the survivors are even remotely decent at the game
- As if Unbreakable will be uncommon when it’s an infinitely reusable 22.5s self pickup
- And this rewards the survivor for getting downed by the killer by another survivor/unhookable area/etc even though no one on their team came to pick them up
-
@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201595#Comment_3201595
Yeah I don't like slugging but if I have to because theres no hooks or other situations I will
this is inanity people will body
block for the person you were chasing because they are dead hook and you can't slug them because nobody's gonna save them they are just gonna keep doing gens
Imagine:
Downed 2 people in a corner gen area, maybe 15s or so apart
You pickup (3s), walk to hook (1-15/16s), hook (1.5s), walk back for the other slug. They’re not there because they’ve already picked themselves up and left.
-
It’s a fundamentally inherently busted concept that needs to be scrapped entirely.
-
It blows my mind an infinitely reusable 22.5s self pickup was even considered okay for a single second.
-
lmao literally what
-
Makes sense, there’s no possible way anyone could tell what the impact of Unbreakable now being infinitely reusable at 22.5s per pickup will have.
-
Also before someone tries to bring up that this is in response to the new mechanic where everyone being slugged will auto-end the game no matter what:
One badly designed auto-kill mechanic does not justify another badly designed basekit self-pickup mechanic. Remove both.
-
@Ghostofsnow said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200892#Comment_3200892
Its more than a single Mori, it gives you the chance to end an entire match if you can down everyone in less than a minute. It's moderate risk(losing a single healthstate worth of pressure) for a game winning reward if you can secure your last kill fast enough
If 3 or 4 people go down in 45s, they MASSIVELY misplayed.
-
It’s almost like an infinite self pickup that kills an entire strategy that makes for interactive gameplay because the killer risks losing a hook state for pressuring other survivors that have to go pick the slug up is a bad idea.
-
Yes, I sure am glad they killed off an entire strategy and all the interactivity of the risk-reward play between staking a lost hook state and immediate pressure on another survivor.
-
If every 3 or 4 people went down in 45s, that is a survivor issue. Last 2 going down in 45s is something that basically literally anyone mobile can do.
-
@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200645#Comment_3200645
At least take the time to write different comments rather than copying and pasting. I've seen you write virtually the same thing about 5 times.
It’s short and concise and encapsulates the issue. It kills slugging as a strategy, introduces insanely unhealthy byproducts like unhookable areas now literally being unsolvable, and removing interactivity in the risk reward trade of giving up a potential hook state for immediate pressure for both sides.
-
45s isn’t long let alone 22.5s. It’s disgusting.
-
@SantaKlawz1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200583#Comment_3200583
It's intended to gut that strat. What interactivity does it kill? It makes the game more fun. Also makes it more challenging for killer. Which equates to a more fun game for both sides.
Killer risks giving up a hook state in return for immediately pressuring other survivors, and someone has to go pick the slug up off the ground.
-
@HugTheHag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200660#Comment_3200660
I'm sorry I'm a bit confused. What's the configuration you're talking about ? Slugging a survivor and waiting for someone to pick them up ? Camping the slug ?
Because if it's the case then survivors with any way of coordination wouldn't pick up any way ?
Eg, killer slugs because multiple people nearby or whatever, and starts chasing others (smart play). For some reason, none of the other survivors picked up the slug. So this change now gives the slug a pickup because their teammates messed up and the killer played well.
-
@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200602#Comment_3200602
Nah, maybe 20% of games tops.
They've just butchered an entire facet of the gameplay loop, invalidating any and all interactions with survivors in the
dyingrelaxing state, in order to counter a niche endgame tactic, which is still possible and works even better.There's no reason for other survivors to come to the aid of a survivor in the
dyingrelaxing state any more. That's half of the pressure of slugging gone. Slugging as a pressure tactic is one of the things that makes not camping and tunnelling viable. Have fun being camped even more than you already are.Remember when the last update was meant to make it easier for killers to win without camping and tunnelling but instead it just led to more camping and tunnelling? Yeah, it's that all over again.
Decent killers are being driven away and leaving only the ######### behind.
MFW I accidentally down an identical survivor that got unhooked and I don’t wanna tunnel so I slug them, but now I’ll get punished for not immediately tunneling and rehooking them.
.-.
-
@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200645#Comment_3200645
Leaving a survivor on the floor for the 4 minutes to find the last one because you want your 4k is interactive? It isn't very for the person stuck on the floor as you go look for your 4th kill. Just hook me and take the hatch risk! Im tired of being on the floor!
@Ghostofsnow said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200645#Comment_3200645
What interactivity does the survivor have now besides crawling on the floor and bleeding out? There is none and it just removes a player from playing the game till someone tries to help them
Uh, no. A survivor having to go pickup the survivor that was left on the ground at the risk of being saved without eating a hook state so the killer can immediately pressure another survivor is interactivity. If a teammate doesn’t rescue them, that’s literally that teammate’s fault.
-
@HugTheHag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200439#Comment_3200439
I apologize, I struggle to see this kind of situations since I don't experience them often on either side. It might be more common than my own experience.
I do still think that a killer shouldn't be able to prevent someone from playing for potentially 4 minutes just because survivors misplayed and the killer wants their kill that bad.
But how is it fair that this will now punish a killer that made a good play because the other survivors aren’t picking the slug up? It’s not the killer’s fault for situationally slugging when the other survivors ignore the slug.
-
Ah yes, an infinite use self-pickup that will literally gut an entire strategy even before endgame, and kill interactivity for both sides.
-
Hopefully literally never, because the changes are literally gutting a strategy and killing interactivity for both sides.
-
Ah yes, not only is there infinite self pickup which is infinite 22.5s pick up with Unbreakable, any remaining vestiges of threat of pressure via slugging ever should also be removed.
-
@SantaKlawz1 said:
It's a good and fair fix. To speed up that process we have to use a perk slot. Yes, people are going to use it a lot at first but once more killers stop using slugging as a strat, it will end up being a wasted perk slot.
a good and fair fix… that guts a strategy and kills interactivity for both sides? what?
-
@Crowman said:
In all fairness to Soul Guard, the cursed effect for infinite self pick up basically never happened anyways. Soul Guard if anything is better now that you don't need to run another perk along side it for self pick up.
Because an infinite self pickup is not balanced without insane restrictions???
-
completely gutting a strategy while simultaneously killing interactivity for both sides is not fine
-
Unbreakable giving 100% is a few lines below it.
-
@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200503#Comment_3200503
You did not read the notes at all lmao, they removed the pick up until 45 seconds have passed so thats more of a 67.5s pick up
The notes you failed to read literally say recovery speed increases will affect the 45s. Unbreakable now gives +100%.
-
The basekit recovery and Unbreakable changes paired with Last Man Standing literally guts strategy and interactivity for both sides. It’s beyond insanely awful design.
-
Unbreakable is an infinite use 22.5s self pickup. Yep. Devs unironically think that’s okay.
-
This is literally one of the worst ideas BHVR has ever put out.
-
Ah yes, completely gutting a strategy and major part of the game and killing interactivity for both survivor and killer. Amazing.
-
This is such an insanely unhealthy change. It literally completely guts a strategy while simultaneously killing interactivity.
-
@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200381#Comment_3200381
If you are playing against survivors who don't pick up a slugged teammate before 45 seconds is up then you don't need to be slugging them at all because they aren't very good.
Good to know that's how you play your nurse, though.
Uh, the difference is someone has to go pick them up. Not doing it themselves. And I only slug situationally.
-
@HugTheHag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200410#Comment_3200410
I mean, if they do it means the killer either has major memory problems and forgets to hook them (which happens to me when playing Hag and I always feel awful because I use Third Seal), or they kind of have it coming for insisting to go for slugs.
This is beyond reductive. If survivors put themselves in a situation where being slugged is the best play for the killer because survivors mispositioned, why the hell should they be rewarded?
-
This is so stupidly absurdly short.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199985#Comment_3199985
I have statistics. 61% is VERY worrisome. It means most of the survivors are really suffering. Taking into account (bad, but still present) MMR, this means that killers are climbing higher and higher with abnormal rate - suggesting something is really wrong with the game for 80% (bell curve) of players.
There could have been an alternative theory why it isn't so bad - and that would be if small number of people could pull the data very significantly. But that is not possible in DBD. There is no match result with -50 killed players. Or -50 rescued. If MMR is (loosly) balanced around 50% (kill 2 and your MMR does not change) but you still get 61% killrate, that means that (on avarage - different MMR can have different experience, but it still averages out somewhere else) killers get more than 1 free win that they shouldn't have been given every 10 games they play.
Taking into consideration that BHVR does not count statistics when someone DC's (as they stated before) - and people complain about DC's all the time... That's total terror and I truly believe some people that say the game is no longer playable.
Why would people ragequitting be factored in? Of course that will throw the match result into killer favor. The issue is the nonstop immature suiciding on hook is factored in because there’s no easy way to count that out. Which also throws a game.
-
@Nazzzak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200287#Comment_3200287
"Can we stop ruining the entire rest of the game because of nurse and just nerf nurse instead already?"
I really didn't want to bring up Nurse as I know she is a touchy subject, but I also wondered if the basekit Unbreakable was because of her and how much easier it'll be for her to quickly end the game with the Finishing Mori now lol
You do realize slugging is a major part for Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Oni, Twins, Plague during power, Myers during T3, and any killer when multiple survivors are nearby right?
-
@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200284#Comment_3200284
Basekit slugging changes were necessary. The PTB is here to test and balance it accordingly
These changes were needed because “Certain killers” were far too strong at slugging
No they weren’t??? Pick the slug up. It’s literally trading off a hook state for saving time applying pressure. This is beyond insanely overpowered. If the killer managed to slug everyone, the survivors messed up horribly. (Or it’s solo queue against Blindness, which that status needs a rework anyways)