SuzuKR
SuzuKR
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Gamers™ when a company tries to do better better than they did 6 years ago:
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@Kaitsja said:
Regardless of how you feel about it, it is still a buff. It may be more QoL than buff, but it's a buff all the same.
Nobody asked for this system. Basekit UB's purpose is to prevent killers from just playing slug matches. You can't have one without the other.
Recovery time being affected by perks shouldn't be a thing and is probably the one thing that would be feasible for BHVR to reconsider, unlike the idea of them scrapping the entire system altogether.
By itself? Technically, sure. Paired with basekit 45s self-recovery? The overall system is closer to a nerf.
I appreciate the time-saving aspect of not having to find, pick up, carry, and hook every slug, but I don't think the way the overall system was handled was a good idea, and the basekit recovery basically kills a strategy and many perks revolving around it.
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Blight and Nurse are not comparable in regards to basic/special attacks. Blight M2 is a special attack because he attacks with his power. Nurse power is exclusively movement. Consistency-wise, it would be like asking why Spirit or Wraith's post-power attacks aren't M2.
Furthermore, Blight is 115%, meaning he can get hits without using his power at all. Nurse is 96.25%. It is literally impossible for her to get a hit without using her power unless survivors misplay insanely hard. Blight also doesn't have to charge to use Rushes and has 5 chances to reposition. He is also designed to be able to flick around to a huge degree, and the base momentum from his power swing gives it an extremely long range. Nurse comes to a dead stop before swinging at standstill attack/lunge range.
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if literally any killer gets 3-4 downs in 45s or 22.5s of the first, they’re either cheating or multiple survivors majorly massively misplayed
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Won't someone play a sad song on the world's smallest violin for the poor flashlight clickers?
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3-4 people down in 45/22.5s is either the killer is cheating or multiple survivors majorly massively misplayed.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3211097#Comment_3211097
in close situations, the killer in niche situations can get more kills then on live server. in most games, like 98% of them the survivor got unlimited base-kit unbreakable. every survivor now has 6 perks. 4 perks of their choosing and base-kit bt+base-kit unbreakable. the unbreakable is stronger then live version unbreakable. unbreakable perk itself is even stronger.
Pretty much. The auto-kill mechanic will be a time-saver, but not really a game-changer in most matches.
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The Emblem mechanic itself is incredibly outdated and has a ton of issues for both sides. For example, instadown killers get punished because they do one chase and one hit instead of two chases and two hits for a down.
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Camping doesn't prevent unhooking. Also, it's a strategy devs have explicitly acknowledged and balanced this game around. The way to punish camping is to do gens. The main issue is solo queue lacks info to know a teammate is being camped compared to people on comms who can just call it out.
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FOV slider is necessary. Literally zero good reasons against it.
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If everything works out completely perfectly in the survivor’s favor on live, sure, some of those situations are no longer possible. Which doesn’t matter because those kinds of situations were rare at best.
- Requires Exit Gate to be opened, or hatch to be available.
- Requires being downed insanely close to the exit boundary or the hatch spawning insanely close.
- Requires killer to be far away or for someone to be able to take hits for heal tech at gate.
- Some situations require a literal cross map hit or specific equips that can down without the killer being there and then it actually triggering.
- Requires no hooks to be anywhere nearby.
- Some situations require multiple survivors downed, ALL near exit gate.
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@ImNotBobDylan said:
I think you are missing some scenarios. For example on live it is quite common to have 2 survivors downed near the gates and by the time you hook one of them the other one manages to crawl and escape. With the change they would now both die.
I don't think it's a major buff for killer but it is a buff that makes no sense. Now survivors will have to stay near the doors for as long as other survivors remain in the trial, otherwise they will put their teammates in sudden position of Last Man Standing.
And all of that, for a Mori rework that nobody asked for, part of why the Mori cinematics were so cool was also because they were so rare, I don't see the appeal of having them become an unskippable cutscene over and over at the end of every 4K (which I think I get in 1/3 of my matches at least). I don't understand why forcing the Mori instead of letting the killer decide, I don't understand why they remove the offerings, why rework Devour and Rancor, why suddenly teleport the survivor in the middle of the stage (very unnatural on some maps), why remove photobombing and glitched walls which sometimes made for hilarious moments.
That is not even a remotely common situation.
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@C3Tooth said:
2 survivors, Dwight is dying crawling close to Exit, Clau tries to heal tech, tank hit.
- Old: Clau can take 1 last hit and both crawling out.
- New: any moment Clau exit before Dwight result Dwight moried, or unlucky enough if Clau down backward, both die
Huntress aim a survivor running close to Exit at range, and hit them.
- Old: there is a chance that survivor will able to crawl out if Huntress if far enough.
- New: Moried
Trapper with Honing stone, 2 survivors left, Dwight running to gate, Clau in chase. Dwight steps on a trap at gate, Clau down not long later
- Old: Dwight could escape from trap, dying, crawl out and escape
- New: Moried
2 survivors left, Killer forcing the Clau out for the game, while the Dwight dying in trial.
- Old: there is a slight chance of God RNG will spawn hatch right next to Dwight, and escape
- New: Moried
2 survivors left, Dwight dying on the ground, Clau down near Dwight, killer pick up Clau.
- Old: there is possible play of Unbreakable to flash light save and both of them escape.
- New: Dwight has to pick himself up and escape, or die if Clau down.
2-3 survivors down and crawling to exit
- Old: killers have to pick up, drop, manage hook play to get 2-3 kills
- New: 3K
Probably more of these scenarios. But I can only think of these for now
Heal tech is stupid, and that is an insanely niche situation that requires someone to go down extremely close to the gate and have someone there to do that.
Hyper niche and situational.
Refer to above.
Refer to above.
Refer to above.
Refer to above.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210993#Comment_3210993
I don't personally know how they could change it but I def agree speeding up losing games for survivor is a good QOL. Shame they had to give survs a basekit form of UB though, I do think it's a healthy idea but it def looks like they added it purely to deincentivize killers from slugging everyone from minute one
A few interesting ideas I saw on the forums were things like speeding up the bleed out timer based on number downed, giving a chance for one to stand when all 4 are downed, surrender vote mechanics, etc. Would definitely require some more careful thought though in my opinion.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Thank you for this, the amount of people who think this mechanic has been some sort of buff to killer surprised me. Someone even told me every 3-5 games survivors were doing comebacks from full team slugs lmao. It's literally just a "win faster" mechanic, it has next to 0 impact on balance.
Pretty much my point. Even if literally nothing else, a survivor can just outright hide in a locker or some corner for a while to give their teammates time if the killer is trying to slug.
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@Brokenbones said:
DS is deactivated in the endgame
Apart from that the system doesn't really favour either side, I think the problem is how artifical it feels for both sides.
I meant if endgame wasn't started yet. Eg gens left and killer found and downed them before they found and closed hatch. But that is also very much true. Either way, results basically don't change.
I agree on the artificiality feeling though. I think time-saving could have been handled in a better way than how it was done. It also makes fun gimmicks like slug races or whatever impossible too.
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That's a very head-turning response.
@foxsansbox said:
I genuinely believe you cannot help the people who choose to die on this hill.
I love the forum, for all the good debates AND the insufferable ones, but we know what kind of people look at this update and start seething. They are inconsolable.
Things that save time for everyone are great, but some people are blowing it out of proportion as if it will almost ever change an actual match result.
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It'd be nice to level survivor webs while queueing as killer or vice-versa too.
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Damn, can't believe they're improving accessibility so everyone can have a normal playing experience. Just because they weren't good at doing so in the past doesn't mean they can't make up for it by doing it now.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209844#Comment_3209844
Yes I meaned "I do not throw the game when there’s a stranger unless someone else has already suicided on hook".
The word sometimes was there if the game was thrown by somebody else already.
Okay, thank you for the clarification. For the record, English is not my primary language, but I have worked very hard to improve it to my current level of usage. So I still have parts where I find certain wordings or phrases ambiguous at times.
I can appreciate that much at least. Thank you for not doing that.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209833#Comment_3209833
??? Did you read what I wrote? I said I don't do that out of respect to strangers. If someone else already killed himself on first hook, then the game is already lost anyway. That's not ruining the game. That one was already ruined.
Your wording was "Sometimes" you bite the bullet out of respect for strangers. The parenthetical about someone else having already hook suicided reads as applying to only the sometimes. Did you mean "I do not throw the game when there’s a stranger unless someone else has already suicided on hook"?
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209808#Comment_3209808
No. Sometimes I bite the bullet out of respect to the strangers (but if I see someone suicide....). I play almost 50:50 solo to 4man swf. Sometimes duo or trio, but not that much.
Lucky for me, nurse is no longer that popular since wesker came live + not everyone plays starstruck range addon nurse with NOED. Also the matches are thankfully short.
Still... Even bad (not baby or terrible one) nurse can win the game with 4k (and really good nurse makes the match last 2-3 minutes). So these games take away energy and will to play another game (even in that short time-window)
So, you yourself acknowledge you will and have actively ruined matches for randoms by quitting, yet you still think there should be a way to bypass the penalty for quitting.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209801#Comment_3209801
Well if I play in swf and we all agree (which we do), then the only person to not enjoy his killer fantasy is the killer. And I will not be in a match which's aim is to make my day worse. Again. I am not payed to cater to killers
And do you always play a full 4-man SWF with a unanimous decision every single time that happens?
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tfw knowingly throwing the game should have consequences
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209759#Comment_3209759
Ok. I will play really bad then. I just don't know how to fast/mid vault. Or my shift key just broke so I can't run...
You can't make people play the game. Nurse is broken beyond limit of what is acceptable.
Make the game more fun for both sides and people will want to play with you. Cry to the devs that 61% is not enough and starstruck nurse is ok and expect people to suicide. Make devs punish it harshly and people will just uninstall. Nobody likes to get stomped game after game when there is nothing they can do about it.
If you want your killer fantasy, then you play single player games. Multiplayers should not focus just 1 side. I am not payed to play the game. I play it to enjoy myself. If there will be nothing but frustration on my part, then the game makes no sense and I am out. It's as simple as that.
Another note. If all killers were so broken as nurse specifically (and blight to some degree) I would have already uninstalled the game. And it's not just me.
Those are not comparable in the slightest. One is playing the game. The other is choosing to knowingly throw the game by refusing to play/intentionally playing detrimentally. But it’s rather telling to see how adamantly you need a loophole to quit without getting the penalty for quitting.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209479#Comment_3209479
There is no rq involved. It's just unfun. Why loosing time over it? It's not like I am being payed to entertain nurse players. No emotions, but I am just out. I can go afk if that makes you feel better, but I will not participate in unfair match stacked to this degree.
If the only fix devs are willing to male is stunning nurse being less beneficial then her missing aa, instead of proper nerf, then why bother?
Even if the option to bypass the DC penalty is removed, you are free to decide to AFK. That is incredibly easy to record and report, and can eventually cause a permanent ban. Ideally, a measure like those of other games to automatically kick and penalize AFK players would also exist. You would also still be free to disconnect and sit out the penalty for doing so. There just will no longer be a way to ragequit while bypassing the penalty for ragequitting. The existence of the exemption is as illogical and stupid as anyone who thinks they’re entitled to have a penalty-free way to DC.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206504#Comment_3206504
Obvious issue in that last one: how do you differentiate someone failing voluntarily from someone actually trying to unhook themselves?
By changing self-unhook system so something like that isn’t possible in the first place. Whether it’s reducing it to one chance, removing time penalty of the 3 chances, only allowing attempts in specific situations it would make sense to genuinely try a self-unhook, etc etc, so on. Then self-unhooking literally becomes unusable for forcing self second stage either completely or at least not immediately.
And struggle skillchecks only affect Bloodpoints. Ignoring 2 or failing 3 to die becomes impossible. And realistically, almost no one misses any of them anyways with how huge they are.
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People really out here unironically complaining about removing a stupid gimmick for the sake of accessibility. And about needing to adjust the flashlight, you could just get the timing right the first time.
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The excuses people come up with for defending ragequitting will never not be hilarious.
"This person dared to play a part of the game, so I decided to actively refuse to play the game and ruin it for all 4 other players."
Removing the ability to hook suicide doesn’t mean you can’t quit if you insist on being immature and selfish because you want to auto-give up playing just cause someone played a part of the game you don’t like. It just means you no longer get a stupid get-out-of-jail free option to avoid the DC penalty for doing what is done for the exact purpose of DCing. It’s genuinely both hilarious and sad that people have this weird sense they should be entitled to have a penalty-free ragequit option.
If other people playing a part of a game makes you react that immaturely and selfishly and choose to actively quit the game, do everyone a favor and go play a single player game instead.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209215#Comment_3209215
Ok, so this is a minor issue about a minor loop-hole that you want the developers to fix since it infringes on your sense of game fairness. That seems like a lot of programming to be put into a really minor problem? Don't you agree?
A minor problem isn’t one that happens with high frequency and ruins the game whenever it does like suiciding on hook is. Also as for why a killer would dislike it, because some people don’t want a virtually predetermined match result 1m into the game?
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Fam, if 3-4 people go down in 45s, that is 1000% purely on multiple survivors massively misplaying.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209076#Comment_3209076
There's already a DC penalty. And judging by the toxic killer gameplay that is causing the DCs and Suicides, these people don't want to play the game, they want to make other player's lives miserable.
So, you basically want players to be FORCED into playing a game where a toxic killer is either face-camping, slugging, tunneling players out of the game or holding players hostage in the corner.
Do you even understand that a game is meant to be fun? Why should anyone be forced to play an unfun game. Isn't there a common killer saying... "Play how you want to play, you're not responsible for someone else's fun".
"For thee, not for me", huh?
There should not ever be a loophole for bypassing the DC penalty. If they want to quit, they can quit. And get the penalty they deserve for doing so. It’s just about removing an utterly stupid way to DC without being penalized for DCing.
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This game is balanced for the majority of players.
DCing or AFKing for literally any game-related reason that is not related to a cheater or a game-breaking bug (eg, being permanently stuck inside a hill), or suiciding on hook for literally any game-related reason that is not the above or trying to give the last survivor hatch, is utterly, indefensibly pathetic and trashy.
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Are people forgetting that when Breakdown was bugged to infinitely break hooks/RPD had an unhookable spot, people would take No Mither for infinite self recovery and just camp out that unhookable location???
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@TMCalypso said:
As much as I hate when people suicide or DC for petty reasons...I'd rather this over the alternative. Anyone who wants out of a match as quickly as possible will find a way to do it. If they can't get themselves killed...they will get you killed. They will make everyone feel as miserable as they do in that game.
Not only that....there is currently a cheating problem in DBD. What if someone gets into a game and a hacker is holding everyone hostage. Sure, you could DC..but that is a penalty. Some people get targeted by them and will have to deal with being held hostage multiple times in a row. A DC isn't viable here. Killer players are pretty much stuck in this situation, but at the very least survivors can suicide on hook as a safe way out of the match with no penalty because someone else held them hostage.
There is also the situations with 2 survivors left, killer dominated and now has the first guy on hook and is looking for the last remaining one or is camping. The person on hook suicides so that the last one can possibly get hatch or isn't lured into a trap by the camping killer... Is that player supposed to now eat a 5 minute or more ban for trying to ensure the other player can get out?
@Dwight_Fairfield said:
If you force people to not be able to exit out of the game early when they want out, then they will find other ways to screw you over. Like just go afk and wait for the match to end. Either way it going to ruin the match for the others. So its a no win scenario.
I’ve literally addressed this in the original post. AFK people should be kicked and given the DC penalty. Sandbaggers should be banned. Anti-cheat measures are being implemented and most people are not facing hostage-taking cheaters frequently at all ever so the DC penalty doesn’t even matter for the majority of players. And I’ve literally addressed suicide for hatch.
They’re ruining the game either way with their immaturity but they should not have a penalty free way to do so.
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You can’t stop ragequitters from throwing tantrums and ruining the game for the other 4 players. But you can stop them from having a loophole to bypass the penalty for quitting, so that they either have to eat the DC penalty they deserve, or AFK/sandbag which is reportable and bannable.
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@GoshJosh said:
First no more slugging, now no more 4%. BHVR, please no!
I’ve literally said it can be kept, just that it shouldn’t be usable to force a second stage.
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Sure, you can’t stop people from ragequitting. But you can stop them from having a way to bypass the penalty they deserve for ragequitting. Imagine, actually having consequences for ruining the game for all 4 other players.
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@Dogma_loki said:
You cannot force people to stay in games they do not want to be in.
Some people have kids, jobs, responsibilities. Unexpected things come up, it is called life. Those don't just go away because someone is playing DBD.
What is it you always say? "Its a you problem". Learn to listen to your own advice.
Unexpected things and real life can be just disconnected for. It shouldn’t be happening super often and the DC timer doesn’t matter if you’re busy with life anyways.
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@Hawk81584 said:
So we shouldn’t be able to try to 4 percent? Geez you really do want ez killer mode
I am fine with the 4%. It should not be a way to force self second stage.
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@Brokenbones said:
People are petty, they'll find a way. I'd rather a 3v1 game be over quickly with people giving up then dragging it out
Also no offence but aren't you the person who got mad about people making constant threads about Nurse, you're doing the same thing, I swear I've seen this same thread about 3 times already
So better measures should be implemented against AFKing/sandbagging that don’t involve giving a penalty-free way to ragequit.
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@Laurie268 said:
If they removed the ability to unhook yourself during 1st hook, people would just find other ways to get out of the match.
Once they’ve made up their mind that they want to get out, they WILL get out no matter what BHVR or you do. You can’t force people to stay in a match they don’t want to be in if they’re not having fun
Sandbagging and AFKing are tremendously easier to report, and DCing means a timer where they won’t be able to ruin matches. Seems like a win for everyone that actually matters.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207697#Comment_3207697
Yep.
Another similar option could be that the more survivors are downed, the faster the bleedout timer ticks. When all four are downed it's equivalent to 1 minutes instead of 4 minutes.
Combine this with something like everyone gets a free Unbreakable when their bleedout timer reaches 25% or something. That's 1 free pick up per game.
All more appealing than forced, unavoidable Mori cutscenes prematurely ending the game.
One of the other things I find sucky about the conceptual change is it makes fun player gimmicks like slug races/carrying someone to the hatch/photobombing Moris/etc impossible.
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@Seraphor Eg, a way to deal with killer bleeding people to death intentionally or unintentionally could be a 1 minute timer that starts when the last survivor goes down. As long as all survivors in the trial are hooked or downed, the timer ticks.
If the timer runs out, everyone is sacrificed Endgame Collapse-style. I feel like 1 minute would give sufficient time for people to get back up if they have a way to do so, or try Deliverance/praying for 4%/etc.
If no one has gotten up after 1 minute of everyone being downed or hooked, it’s pretty safe to assume the game is over anyways and that the killer either can’t find the others or is intentionally bleeding them out anyways.
And this would also help solve situations where a killer is forced to bleed a survivor purely because no hooks are close enough.
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@Seraphor If you think about it, slugging for 4K is pretty much a symptom of the kind of problematic design of hatch itself too. It incentivizes the last two to hide and do nothing, and the killer’s only option to 4K without risk of hatch is to slug one and look for the other. Comparatively, survivors trying to get a 4E attempt are constantly interacting with the killer, healing and taking trades and inching hooks closer to a gate, etc. The design of the hatch itself incentivizes hiding and doing nothing from survivors and slugging from the killer.
And realistically, if everybody goes down at 5 gens, the game is likely over anyways unless someone has an Unbreakable or whatever. It’d be like if everyone got hooked at 5 gens realistically. So it’s not like the auto-kill mechanic actually changes much in that regard either.
The only real issue I see is killer bleeding all living survivors to death on purpose (or unintentionally, silent slug bug and people crawling off into god knows where), honestly. And something like that could be solved by something in a non-sledgehammer manner like you said.
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tbh I couldn’t care less what it is if the devs do a good job with design and balance, unless it’s a license made by a POS of a person
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It is an intended function of his power.
It doesn't say it in Twins or Wesker's power descriptions either.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206843#Comment_3206843
Queues will also be longer as a result and less people will play the game.
Whether or not that is good is up to you.
Uh. The only people that'd stop playing over a change targeted at ragequitters are people that would be quitting out of games that don't go how they want it. Ragequitters being in queue isn't a good thing. Yeah, you get faster games, just for them to ruin it anyways. A slightly longer queue time in return for less odds of playing with/against a ragequitter, and it being way easier to report if they AFK/sandbag is a win.
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@Pulsar said:
If you get rid of it, you'll see more DC's and more AFK Survivors.
Good? It means they're sitting out of queue instead of ruining other peoples' games. And AFK is easy to report, given they're just straight up not doing anything.
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I play whatever I want whenever I want. Backpack Mad Grit Trapper, eternal Nightfall Dredge, Shadowborn BBQ no add-ons Nurse/Blight, yeet build Wesker, heehoo fast vault go brrr Legion, Mister Worldwide Doc, etc etc. If the other side doesn't have fun, that is valid since fun is a subjective opinion, but that also isn't my problem. I don't play to intentionally upset the other side, so I don't particularly care what the other side thinks past that if they still get upset anyways. Same holds for when I play survivor.
I would hope the other side has fun. But if they don't, that's not my problem. I'm not going to intentionally play worse or hold back from playing what I find fun, because I'm not playing to intentionally piss them off in the first place.