SunsetSherbet
SunsetSherbet
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Disable end game chat and never re-enable it is the best you can do. Toxicity isn't seen as all that negative a thing by the community.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/302201/you-dont-need-a-4k-the-toxic-mindset
You should play survivor since it's so much better, easier and so much more fun.
It's funny because I've always played both sides. Up until recently, I was more of a survivor player but I've gotten so sick of how unfun survivor is because of tunneling-off-hook and face-camping/proxy-camping that I'm enjoying Killer way more.
You really don't understand how bad playing survivor has gotten. At least I can actually play the game as Killer. I can't even play the game as survivor half the time.
The clicking of flashlights and but-dancing is no where near how awful it feels to not even get to play the game.
"You should play survivor since it's so much better"
Good advice. I do. Haven't touched killer since the first couple days of artist. Exclusively play survivor. Far far more fun and chill. No stress at all.
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Sociopathy. A lot of survivors are also told it's ok to do because of some weird arbitrary reason such as the killer daring to win instead of letting them win.
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Pretty much the only people left playing killer are masochists these days.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721390#Comment_2721390
Yeah, early game slowdown was in the talks and they canned it, they already said it was canned after a year, once they say "we dont have anything against facecamping" Ill consider the idea canned too but as it is now, camping is on the radar. Thats why I explicitly said "opinions change", same as they didnt consider camping a problem in 2017 and now they consider it, in 2022 they may change their mind again, in any case, right now they consider camping too rewarding so my point still stands and my video overrides the other older videos posted as proof that "camping is not considered as a problem by devs".
On your second point, Ill say the same I said before to Tsulan, this thread is to discuss OP experiment, camping and its consequences, lets not derail it with aboutthism, open a gen speed thread and Ill write my views there.
They specifically talk about face camping, and stated they have no issue with other forms of camping. So, no, camping in general does not seem to be an issue. Just bubba 2 feet infront of you revving his chainsaw. But don't expect them to do anything about the killer circling the hook. I don't believe that is even in the discussion, nor any other form of stopping general camping, since the entire question and response is based on face camping.
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@SpitefulHateful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720810#Comment_2720810
- I'm yet to see a survivor who managed to successfully crawl in the corner hide from a killer for the entire 4 minutes. They leave puddles of blood and keep making noises even with Iron Will, they get found and picked up eventually.
- It's pretty easy to measure the intent of the killer. For example, when it's Undetectable Bubba who hooks one survivor, downs anyone who tries to unhook them, then goes for those who remain and spends the rest of the game walking after crawling survivors, pretending to stomp on them. It's very easy to measure.
- As if survivors staying in the game and enduring won't get the bully's microscopic weenie all wet. In the AFK scenario, survivors aren't forced to be bully's doormats for the rest of the trial.
I've absolutely had a survivor crawl away into a corner and hide from me for several minutes. Tenacity+slug bug. Could never find him.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720903#Comment_2720903
"Plans to make being facecamped less punishing (for the survivor)?, do we have anything in the works for that?" "We do, we are actually getting very excited on a meeting before..." and then he goes on a monologue about the problem being hard to counter and how it takes too much time to learn whats happening and react accordingly.
Thats the gotcha, you dismissed the whole thing with "they dont plan to change a thing because these 2 old videos say so" and you are wrong, the video I posted completely counters yours and mine being newer means its their mindset right now, they do have plans now because its starting to become a problem, they are just working on it. Opinions change and stuff thats not seen as troublesome may become it if people abuse it enough or it becomes an obstacle if it blocks other changes (for example you cant change gen timers if you dont fix camping first), happened with flashlights, they were fine, they werent a problem, in Q&As they dismissed them etc etc etc then flashlights got nerfed because it was shown they were actually a problem but it was a hidden one as not many people used them, once the cat was out of the bag they nerfed them harshly.
It wasnt their style to change things in a substantial way but that also is starting to change, first with the breakable walls, then with MMR and now with Boons its clear they are not as afraid as they were when trying to shake the game mechanics.
@Munqaxus About the 4th perk, try Lethal Pursuer once you unlock it as it eliminates the trouble of finding the first victim to get facecamped, it also lets you decide which one is going down according to where the basement may be if you wish to send someone there. The thing that counters facecamping the most right now is the Killer not being able to find someone fast for gens will have a big headstart before you down someone.
Will this be before or after the early game collapse they said they'd do? And will it come before or after the "new report" feature they talked about? The devs make lots of claims and never follow through and just pretend it never happened. People are dismissing this idea of them fixing camping because they tried and it failed badly, and other times they talked about it, nothing came of it. I genuinely believe you're setting yourself up for massive disappointment.
Also a generator speed fix would need to be in the exact same patch as any camping fix. Not after, not "in the future" exact same patch, or enjoy every killer leaving. "We're gonna take away your tools but I promise one day will do something for you, just like with keys and mori's!" lol it either happens at the same time or never at all. Like seriously bro, you think ANY KILLER HERE is going to trust the devs if they removed camping and then said "we'll fix gens soon, promise" after the debacle of basically removing mori's and then taking a FULL YEAR to nerf key's? This dev team doesn't have the good will to ask me to believe in a promise of fixing killer issues AFTER nerfing them. I know this game's playerbase and dev's are very cocky, but I'd be a little careful about ensuring every remaining killer quits your game a few months before multiple competitors come out, during a time where we have actual data the game has been losing players every month for months now and we're down a good 30% since August on steam. Tens of thousands of people have stopped playing on steam and I have to assume on console, too, though we cannot see those numbers. It's time to stop thinking the devs can do anything at all and it won't cause irrepairable harm to their game. It's a 5 year old game with a pretty negative rep among a lot of people. It's not getting younger and there isn't an infinite playerbase of untapped people looking to play a 5 and a half year old bully sim.
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@ElusivePukka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720944#Comment_2720944
At least be accurate when being pithy.
"I have to spend two minutes on the hook before I can go to my next [2-15 minute queue for a game which seems a 50/50 shot at being another camp session] so it's bad if the killer tries [a logistically bad tactic that's only successful if my teammates play poorly]"
The queue being long is caused by the toxic mindset toward killers lol I haven't touched killer since the first few days of Artist. Why? I am sick of survivors being toxic because I dare to win rather than just let them win. Maybe your queues will shorten when the toxic mindset this thread is about starts to go away. But it seems the people who have that mindset refuse to drop it. Buff killers, stop being toxic if they try to win, and maybe you won't have a 20 minute queue after the killer tunnels you out because he feels it's the only way he can win due to gens being done in under 4 minutes.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720368#Comment_2720368
Because the match is over quickly. Or in case of COD you just respawn. Youre not on a hook for 2 minutes or the ground for 4 minutes or being tunneled until dead getting barely any bp or pipping fo this.
Oh heavens not 2 whole minutes on the hook! Can I start hating console players now for making me wait 2 minutes at the loading screen while their ancient console loads? Many PVP games have you dying early, eliminated, no respawn, and that's that. This is the only one where people expect hand holding, probably because they don't actually want a PVP game but a co-op experience with their friends vs an AI.
"I have to spend like a minute on the hook before I can go to my next game so it's bad if the killer tries to win."
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@Marigoria said:
If you'd rather "stick toothpicks under your fingernails" than playing the game, I think it's time to uninstall and play something that doesn't make you this upset.
Going by the -30% steam userbase drop over the past few months, that seems to be a popular thing to do.
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And the same side that will tell you that attempting to win too fast is "toxic and mean" will tell you intentionally BMing with clicking and tbagging isn't toxic or mean because "I didn't stop you from playing the game :))))"
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719630#Comment_2719630
There will be at least 1 hook per game, unless you're bad as killer. This means there will always be someone who gets put in this situation, or has the potential to be put in this situation. If a game lasts 20 minutes, and one person gets etched out 5 minutes into the game, with 2 of those minutes being on the hook unable to do anything, I wouldn't call that playing the game. They played like 1/7th of the game at that point.
I have played both sides, btw. Funnily enough I play Legion, one of the weaker killers mostly, or did on PS4. I've been leveling out my survivors because survivor games are more fun in general when you get a decent game. Also I didn't invent anything, there's literally a progress bar in the bottom left corner that fills up the more hooks you get. The GOAL is 12 hooks. That's not necessarily the standard win condition, but it is still the GOAL by both the game's mechanics and the lore(the entity wants survivors to have hope before dying). Trying to get certain perks and then I'll eventually move on to leveling my killers. When I have a need to play Killer for any challenges or trials, I play perkless Wraith, only had 3 0ks so far since playing on PC(every other was a 3-4k, 3k if I give hatch, this is including me purposefully not tunneling or camping, and sometimes giving them extra time if we're still at 3+ gens and everyone's death hook. I have had games where I ran into the same survivor who just got unhooked by pure luck, and I will hook them then, but I have not actively done any of the scummier things that are used to make the game easier to win, and funnily enough, unlike all the "I get called every name in the book no matter what I do" posts, I've only been called disgusting once, and that was in one of the 0k games and the rest of the team said I was fine, there was another time where someone said the game was brutal because I won so handily, but that was early on in my MMR journey and even then I was playing vs 4 max tier perk survivors with toolboxes), while playing killer quite often, and even then I had over 5 hooks each game. It's not that bad.
Don't get caught 2 minutes into the game. Don't ask everyone to baby a survivor because they go down 10 seconds after found. If you're good as a survivor, you can escape the killer and thus not get hooked and camped. If you're getting camped 2 minutes into the game, you not only got found extremely quickly but probably didn't even loop the killer for 30 seconds. "I shouldn't be able to have a game where I die so quick!" well when they're good enough to loop the killer, they won't.
And that seems to be the crux of your issue. People getting camped early on after getting downed quick and thus not being able to play. Well 1. They're probably not that great if that happened 2. If they die, they'll lower to an MMR where they probably won't face killers who can down them 30 seconds in to ensure they don't get to play at all. You can play the "killer bad if he camps" but if a survivor is genuinely going down so fast in a match that they DIDN'T GET TO PLAY AT ALL, then I think that might be a them issue.
Basically the entire battle royal genre works on the idea of elimination, too, and somebody has to be the first. You cannot design a PVP game where everyone magically gets an allotted time. Or at least not one that looks anything like this game does.
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@Jasonisanicefella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719592#Comment_2719592
This is a videogame, and it is supposed to be enjoyable for everyone.
Camping and tunnelling destroy can destroy the fun, completely.
The hooking mechanic has to be deleted, it is the biggest source of toxicity in this game. Survivors should just go down and respawn in a safe area of the map, where killers have no access, with multiple exits, and they need to be rescued by their teammates.
No more camping, no more tunnelling, no more nonsense. It is BEYOND belief that after 5 years a person can be downed and doesn't get to play the game because they are facecamped and tunnelled, it is absolutely wrong. (and it is not killers' fault either, it is the mechanic to be wrong).
With camping and tunnelling gone, we can then rework the survivors' objective considering that each survivor has 3 lives and there is no way to cheat that. Longer games, better interactions.
And based on how the games are going buff killers to compensate.
Losing in any game can destroy someones fun. My suggestion is to not play a PVP game if losing is just anathema to someones existence. I don't have fun when survivors slam 5 gens out in 3 and a half minutes, but that's the game. The survivors are not in charge of my fun and I am not in charge of theirs. If you want people to play differently, reward them for doing so.
"I didn't get to play the game." Yeah, you did, you just apparently got downed out of the gate for some reason (clearly not the survivors fault, of course) and now you're in a bad spot. You can get eliminated first in fortnite, too.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719558#Comment_2719558
Honestly those suggestions, for the most part, was my sarcasm, because quite often you'll see people listing similar suggestions on the other end of things. That said, listening and watching for blood trails(they're quite obvious) is a pretty obvious tell there's a survivor around if you hear or see any of those things. I don't think I've ever lost a survivor to the point of them bleeding out on the ground. There was one survivor I let bleed out on the ground and it was because they interrupted my Feral Frenzy intentionally to screw me over after I hooked them, trying to force a DS pick up and their team was on comms coordinating stuff. I never suggested a punishment of BP loss, but I feel like if the killer is in the vicinity of a survivor in the dying state for more than 30 seconds something should happen to deter that behavior. Maybe something funny but also a deterrant like firecrackers going off all around them. Survivors have crows that are basically aura reading if they're still for too long. I don't see a problem with a similar approach to killers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719560#Comment_2719560
The game's objective for the killer is 12 hooks. If the killer is camping or tunneling their goal is one. Also this is much different from NORMAL gameplay where survivors can actually play the game. Only one person is having fun in this scenario. Rather selfish don't you think? Also I don't see how being stuck on the hook for 2 minutes is even remotely close to being tbagged or flashlight clicked at. Sure, it's annoying but at best they're only letting you close the distance and wasting time. Camping is pretty much the same as if you were in a shooter, all players spawned at the same spot they did every time, and your opponent was standing at your spawn point shooting you in the head over and over until the game ended. It's griefing plain and simple. People don't go into a match expecting to be unable to do anything for the majority of it, and there will always be at least one hook per game, meaning the potential for that is always there. Slugging is just a worse version of it because it takes 4 minutes instead of 2.
Sorry but if you're going to straight up invent a win con like "the killer is supposed to 12 hook" based off nothing but your own desires, there's very reason for me to engage you. I'd just instruct you to try playing both sides instead of just survivor. And you did play the game. Were you magically teleported to a hook when you loaded in? Not my fault you can't escape a chase.
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The people who want punishment are coming from a place of spite. They don't want rewards for people playing in different ways. They want to harm those who dare play in the ways they don't approve. People seem very oppossed to the idea of incentivizing people to not do something, rather than punishing them if they do. Meanwhile the "punishment" method has been tried several times already and has failed every time. But still, people want to see one side harmed for playing effectively.
Give the killer a reason to leave the hook. Give them something where leaving the hook is better than staying, without it being a flat "You are being punished if you don't listen." make it actually effective and worth while to leave and go to the corner of the map, rather than just telling people they need to do that OR ELSE. People are never going to respond well to suggestions of punishing others for valid play. Figure out why killers camp and then give them something to do that is A. Also very effective but B. Is not boring for either side. I don't what that would be, but I'm also not a dev paid a living wage to design the game. But creating something like that is a better place to look than "CAN THE DEVS PLEASE FLY TO KILLERS HOMES AND BEAT THEM UP IF THEY CAMP?!" type posts that have plagued this board the past day or two.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719517#Comment_2719517
Yeah. Pretty bad being in a game you can't play for a long portion of it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719533#Comment_2719533
There's a difference between accepting it's just a game and accepting that the person on the other end is causing this. If you're the only one left in the match and the killer is hovering over your body waiting for you to bleed out instead of hooking you(it happens more than it needs to), they are griefing. Camping alone in every other game is griefing. Behaviour is the problem. Yeah, some people are mentally unstable, but the frustration towards certain in game behaviors is warranted. If you're no longer able to have fun with the game due to others' actions that DIRECTLY affect your ability to play said game, why would you even want to play it? Camping is discouraged in many other games, why is this company encouraging it when it only brings out negative feelings and has proven as such in other games which eventually led to removing the possibility of such things. I equate camping in this game to spawn camping in any other game. It's the same situation in essence.
I'd rather be camped or tunneled for a game over tbagged/bullied or BM'd any day. In fact, I quit Killer because of BMing yet somehow haven't quit survivor because why should I care about something that the killer is doing TO WIN THE GAME? I have never had an issue being camped. Whatever, I go on to my next game, no harm. If I want a PVE game, I'll play it. You may as well say the killer shouldn't kill anyone because he's denying them their ability to play the game, and only the survivors should win because that way everyone got to play a full match.
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TBagging and clicking and calling you names in post game is fine because you can still play. Camping or tunneling me should result in massive punishments and possible bans.
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Doctor
Huntress
Ghostface
Hag
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@Atrushan88 said:
Camping is griefing. That's why DBD is the only game where camping in any form is actively promoted by it's parent company(outside of like ACTUAL camping, with a fire and hotdogs or smores). Somehow people equate camping to "tbagging and flashlight clicking", but I don't see how either of those prevent the killer from playing the game. They're not even close to related. If anything both of those actions help the killer as you're not gaining distance while doing it.
"It's not griefing when I do things to upset people but it is when my opponent tries to win" lol
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719506#Comment_2719506
It's not a toxic attack on anyone as a person, but it does prevent them from playing the game for 4 minutes.
The horror.
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Last killer game I played was November 27th. I have played some survivor, though. No point playing a role that is, by design, supposed to lose and be unfun. And now survivor mains are sharpening knives asking for mass punishments for killers too while defending BM and such. I have no clue why you'd play killer anymore outside of being stubborn or masochistic.
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Going against potatoes isn't fun either. People want fair balanced matches rather than one sided stomps. Just because I don't want to lose all gens in 3 minutes doesn't mean I want to 4k at 5 Gens every game. I'd rather 4k with all gens completed by the skin of my teeth, as that is far more fun than a stomp. A game I lose by the skin of my teeth is also far more fun than just getting stomped by seal team 6 as they tbag out the gate.
You're going to eventually hit top MMR regardless of if you sweat or not unless you make it a point to go throw matches every day to keep your MMR down.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
This is a spiteful change that will only hurt normal players without deterring bad players.
Letting a survivor get slugged to death gives only 50 BP VS a Death hooks 700+(200 Extra for each hookstate skipped).
So Griefers who are doing it already lose out on most of the kill BP so BP is clearly not a factor to them.
Almost every punishment based request tends to be spiteful and not based at all on making the game better.
Many people won't be happy unless players are personally visited by the devs and beaten up for breaking the survivor or killer rule books.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719346#Comment_2719346
Who is asking the killer to play "easier"? Nobody is asking for free escapes or to not play the game. Leaving a hook and going for somebody else, stopping them from doing gens, etc. isnt going "easier". Its playing the game.
I'm just grateful BHVR have said they'd address this as its one of the most boring things in this game.
They said that like 4 years ago mate. Also you don't get to tell people how to play their own game they own.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719393#Comment_2719393
I don't think you need an entire degree in statistics in order to have some understanding of the field, or we'd have to discount basically all science because most scientists got degrees in other fields. Though a lot of people still have bad understanding of stats anyway.
But I'd settle for good experimental design/data collection if we're going to try and examine effectiveness.
I assume most scientific groups have people who have at least taken cursory courses in statistics at some point during their education, or can actually reference to a statistician they know/on the team especially if it's actually been peer reviewed. No one is peer reviewing the forums or the dev team though. And most would tell you to take non-peer reviewed science with a grain of salt. If they are just GIVING statistics without coming to a conclusion and asking you to come to your own conclusion, sure. This is more aimed at the devs who want to develop based off flawed statistics which we have seen non-stop.
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@Mileena_Kahn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719333#Comment_2719333
Because killers don’t care about deranking or blood points when they facecamp. They’re doing it simply because they’re purposely trying to be a jerk or they don’t care. Yes, there are some killers that struggle more than others but I’d rather go against a strong killer that can manage to get hooks rather than ones that just babysit and play off trades. How is that fun for either side?
And this is why it's impossible to take survivor mains seriously.
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My opinion of the statistics fight is If you don't have at least a bachelor's in statistics, then I don't really care that much about your laymen understanding of the field. And that goes to the devs trying to justify bad balance with "THE STATS." You don't have business interpreting statistics without some actual education and knowledge of the field. More harm than good has been caused by inexperienced people reading statistics without understanding the in's and outs, and jumping to rash conclusions as a result.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719224#Comment_2719224
And solo queue still WOULD be 4v1 asymmetrical. SWF would be an alternate game mode, which is exactly what it is.
And if you imagine that I would not immediately switch to All-Bot Survivors the very second it became available, you have gravely misread the situation. Bots is a beautiful solution to a fundamentally unbalanced game. If you want another human being on the other end of the connection, and you want to play using all the comms benefits that the majority of survivor players do not get access to, you will just have to accept that the game isn't going to balanced and killers will continue to do the scummiest, least fun play method to secure kills.
And hey: if you're perfectly fine with tunneling, camping, slugging, and potentially long queue times: then okay. That's your business and you've made your choice. I suspect most survivors are less enthusiastic about those things, though.
People wouldn't enjoy it because there's no point trying to BM and ruin the day of an AI with your clicking and tbagging and other BM's. You can't bully an AI since it has no emotion.
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@Virghoul said:
I think VHS will do fine for about a month then will become a niche game with a low player base. As an example I played WOW for a long time and every new MMO that came out was the WOW killer. Guess what, they only thing that has "killed" WOW is the direction of the game and people who have played for 16ish years are finally done. Not another game. The same will happen with DBD, it will be fine. People usually go back to what they know. Also people who have invested a lot of time and money don't easily abandon a game once a new similar game comes out.
FF sure seemed to sap much of WOW's playerbase and bored players off.
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Every attempt has failed because it's based around punishment rather than incentive.
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I think they should just try it rather than this half decade long thing where people have suggested a shapeshift killer since launch, and everyone keeps telling them it can't work due to SWF. Just do it anyway. Wouldn't be the first failed design if it doesn't work. Game is running out of fresh killer ideas as is.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719217#Comment_2719217
"the survivors were very efficient, splitting up, doing gens, holding W incredibly early (which on Haddonfield.. bruh), body blocking for each other, using COH."
The OP even says they didn't have a problem with that. They should play to win. They say their issue is that the Survivors imposed a double standard of OP by being upset when OP played to win as well.
Both strategies are unfun and boring. It's always been my personal rule that if I'm trying to win, I can't begrudge the other side for doing the same.
You don't get it. Survivors are allowed any tactic to win. There is no unfun or overpowered tactic or strategy a survivor can employ. There's an excuse to why every single one is fine. But the killer can employ many tactics (in fact, most killer tactics are unfun!) that are unfair and the killer who uses it should be banned!
Or at least, that's the gist of what I get from survivor mains on these forums.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I was interested in VHS and signed up for the Beta (no key yet), until I saw it has in game voice chat. Turned me right off. I have been watching people play DBD for about 3 years and only started this Oct because I though it had in game voice chat. As much as I wanted to, it was the reason I didn't play Friday the 13th either.
Prop night just doesn't interest me at all.
You can just disable it and not talk to people. Or listen to them and not talk yourself. I have not said one word to anyone in the beta. I mute people who have awful mics or get bossy.
The Ping system makes voice less necessary. It still helps as there's somethings you cannot communicate via pings, but the ping system helps a lot to communicate what is happening, once you learn how to use it.
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VHS is going to have issue in that it doesn't coddle the survivor(teen) side enough. In DBD, once the killer hooks me, I probably have
BT
DS
DH
to now save myself once unhooked. In VHS, if the monster downs me, my team picks me up, and they can't fight him off (no weapons or he uses an ability) and he decides to down me again, well I just get to eat the floor, as there isn't a special second (or third or fourth) chance ability to ensure I get away. VHS will probably succumb to the asymmetrical game curse of the devs nerfing the monster/killer side and buffing the survivor side to godhood. The game is fun, but it's not hand holdy enough and people who play this genre usually want a lot of hand holding. People who play DBD survivor are going to sorely miss their 4 perks to counter the killer, which they don't get in VHS. The game, however, is far more fun than DBD and when you lose or win, it actually feels like you were good, not that you got carried by overpowered perks and undeserved buffs.
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The type of players who cry about camping and feel the need to hurl abuse in post game are generally people who don't like PVP games and are playing more for a PVE CO-OP experience. They're not a fan when the AI starts behaving "unfairly"
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I wish the handful of survivor mains who have fantasies of mass punishment for killers for daring to play effectively will someday get it's not going to change without an entire revamp of the games mechanics, to the point making a DBD2 would be less work.
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@Tsulan said:
The moment they start to punish people for playing the game in an intended way (because lets face it, camping was intended from the very beginning of the game). Is the moment they´ll lose a significant potion of their playerbase.
Its actually kinda ridiculous how people want the amount of players they play with to be reduced.
Many people believe this game can't ever die/everyone comes back to it if they quit. Since the game has no current competition and all previous competition has failed, it gives people a sort of cocky sense of "We can make any change we want and nothing serious will occur in reaction. Where are you going to go?"
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The punishment talk comes because the people requesting it think killers are specifically griefing them/trying to hurt them. They seem unable to grasp the killer is taking the best strategy available to him at the time and always project weird stuff like "They do it to have power over people and to ruin your day!" No bro, I do it when it's the correct strategy for my situation. When you view something as a "BM" and not a legit strategy, you're just going to demand punishment rather than anything else.
The only actual solution that might work is incentivizing players to not do it by giving them a benefit or something better to do. Trying to tack on punishments has been tried multiple times now and NEVER WORKS. Maybe try some incentives instead of hoping the devs will take killers out back and shoot them for the high crime of camping.
@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718121#Comment_2718121
No, I just think it's stupid that one killer can start the match by putting someone on the hook, and if they choose it, that person is just dead. There's no counterplay, the best outcome is just killing off that person in exchange for gen progress.
Other killers have 1 shots but nobody else can guarantee hitting both the survivors involved with zero cooldown, no buildup like stalking etc. At best you have BT and he still just trades you onto the hook, and worst he can still catch up and down after BT.
I don't think 1 hit downs, or camping, or killers need a change. I think Leatherface needs a change.
The killer in your avatar can also create a a situation where a survivor is just dead. VHS tape+block a box with your body. Any survivor who got the unlucky number and needs your box is dead without any way to interact and stop you. And they never even had to down you.
But I'm sure we'll get to more Pig nerfs in the future.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717880#Comment_2717880
Whataboutism at it's finest.
T-bagging doesn't progress generators, BMing at the hook while camping brings a survivor to their second phase.
Tbagging has no actual in game benefit where as camping does. It exists only to taunt, nothing else. "But some people use camping to be mean" Who cares?
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717866#Comment_2717866
But the developers haven't even mentioned having to be forced to hook someone 12 times in order to get a 4k. So I am not sure where that idea originated from.
The problem with Camping is not everyone is using it as a 'tactic'. Many of the players who use it just want to use it as a form of BM. So for me, that is one element that needs to change.
So, it will come in the patch that bans tbagging or clicking, right?
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717859#Comment_2717859
Because unless the incentives royally break the game, they're not going to compare to a free 2K.
Then nothing is ever changing and it would be best to just spend your energy elsewhere, bro.
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@Impartiality said:
This forum/thread is full of so many bad killers that get carried by camping and tunnelling lol. There’s no wonder this place is full of killers who claim the game isn’t balanced.
You all get kills by camping and then play against survivors much better in skill. Come to the forum to cry the game is not balanced.
"Maybe if I try insulting random strangers who don't care about me, that will get them to stop playing in ways I dislike!!!"
Bold strategy, Cotton.
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Why is it so hard to consider INCENTIVES to not camp, rather than focusing on punishing others?
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Because poor design.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
Killers also complain about ds and bt, hmm wonder why these are perks, oh yeah camping and tunneling maybe if killers didnt do it nearly so often survivors wouldnt need these perks. Also kind of silly they're not basekit, camping and tunneling is basekit lol.
why would there be a built in hard counter to a specific strategy?
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It was always a garbage perk and also strange in that it encourages hard tunneling the obsession out of the game.
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Survivors being too altruistic to do gens because "UGH I NEED MUH HEAL POINTS FOR MY EMBLEM" is their fault, not the killers. Killer should never be punished for camping and hopefully never will, since every attempt has failed when it becomes clear survivors just wanted a new avenue to use against killers. Instead of demanding punishment, which is bad game design, why not suggest INCENTIVES to not camp? The killer wouldn't camp if that wasn't the best (and in some cases only) way for them to score kills. "Punishing" them just see's more killers quitting and your queues getting even longer. In the future, try thinking of ways to INCENTIVIZE certain play instead of trying to punish players for legitimate tactics.
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@thefallenloser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2713065#Comment_2713065
This is like… the worst counter argument ever. I can win against a Clown like all the time, but it’s extremely unfun because Clown is a boring killer. You don’t have to be losing to not have fun. This is what makes playing games in which you are extremely overpowered unfun after a while as well.
It's kind of your job to have fun. No one should need to cater to you or lose their fun so you have more fun. If the game is unfun for you, don't play instead of using "unfun" as an excuse to get nerfs.
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@Kyochi said:
This solution can disincentivise hard camping.
If the killer is within 24m of a hooked survivor for more than 10 seconds while not in a chase the hook timer will decrease by 75%. This effect will immediately disappear the moment a chase begins with another survivor.
Hear me out,
Normally the timer for a full hooked state is 120 seconds when a killer is hard camping the timer will keep going normally and normally that doesn't make the game fun for anyone.
My solution is since DBD formula is based on additive if we were to decrease the hooked state timer by 75% after the 10-second mark. Survivors will gain an extra 90 seconds on a hooked state due to the idea of even trying to hard camp. so by formulating this the hooked survivor will gain an extra 80 seconds on the hooked state which allows survivors to pretty much fully punish a killer just because of their hard camp and completely disincentivize the killer to even attempt camping without completely losing everything.
So in conclusion, if killers hard camp the whole game hooked survivor survival for a total of 200 seconds instead of 120 seconds but if played normally the timer will stay 120 seconds
You forgot to post your proposed buffs for killer. This is why most of these threads are hard to take seriously. It's always a survivor main making a thread requesting something killers have or use get nerfed, but not suggesting any compensation at all. Just "Pls nerf this. What, give the killer something in return? No way!" Propose what your suggestion is to make up for the loss of being able to camp. If you have none, then you're just asking for nerfs across the board for the role that already has very few enjoyers.
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Most people play games to win, and not just to play them.