Starrseed
Starrseed
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If say the only point where the game favours the killer is in the fact the killer is one person and the survivors are four which logically means the survivor side has the higher chance for human error.
But that's not really something you can balance around
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Not only the BP gain needs to be looked at but also add-ons need to be looked at.
There are killers that feel like you gimp yourself without specific add-ons and there are add-ons that are interesting but way to rare.
Add-ons need a serious rework. An add-on for a killer should be something you take to compliment your build or change your playstyle not something you should take to make the character feel well designed and balanced.
I only play Michael with scratched mirror cause that's how I enjoy playing him but since it's an iri I just don't really play him all that much. I did a whole prestige on him the other day and I got like five mirrors.
I ain't gonna make a whole prestige worth in BP in these five games.
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Ok and do we massively need survivors in chase to compensate for this?
You want it to be way easier for the survivors to deny a hook so I'm return killers should be in the position to hook way more frequently aka chases need to be shorter so we need less pallets and windows and need perks that extend chases.
It is a good thing that you need to coordinate with your team to pull of a sabo play cause chases take already long enough if you don't play a A or S tier killer and if I just imagine after a chase that took time already I don't get to hook cause one guy came and did a sabo and I happen to be on the other side of the map away from shack.
And it is quite ironic how you say this isn't about an old guy coming in and telling them how to do it but about a community of whiners when you come her and whine cause you can't play like you did years ago in an ever evolving game.
News flash you also can't stealth all game anymore and you also can't insta blind anymore. Want that back too?
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074332#Comment_4074332
Does that mean we will see no perk changes next patch? It's been months since we had a bigger change to perks and the current metagame is just full of problematic perks such as Shoulder the Burden, Resurgence, Vigil, many exhaustion perks, or ft toolboxes with Hyperfocus + Stake Out or Built To Last. All of these perks are not affected by the upcoming Diminishing Return feature.
Thats what it means yes.
They want to go at this slow step by step and take time for buffs and nerves and adjustments which is the right way to go in my opinion.
But this means we will have time frames where it feels like nothing happened like now cause the dr system doesn't hit the meta and the perks that are aren't buffed. And this will mean we will have time frames where only some things are adjusted and things feel kinda off.
It can happen that we temporarily have only survivor perks buffed and not killer perks yet or just a couple of perks are buffed and the meta is not touched yet.
This could at times feel unbalanced which sucks but I don't think just testing stuff on the PTB will be enough data and stuff needs to be tested separately first and then together. That's what they should have done with anti tunnel and anti slug but they wanted everything at once both features and the perk changes all tested at once by the relatively small number of ptb testers.
But we have to be loud and direct and hold bhvr to higher standards this time and demand they don't strictly hold onto their normal update cycle
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074511#Comment_4074511
That would cause them to just put out slob of the IP to keep the rights. Like how that would be anyway a positive thing for any IP?
I don't think so honestly.
Pushing out slop still costs money and if they only push slip to hold the licence the fans will know it and don't give them money. Plus it's bad rep for your company if you push out slop for one IP and good stuff for others you own.
I think the net positive would be to sell the IP to someone that wants to work with it and that's what I want this change to do, let ups cycle through hands of people that are actually interested in the IP and have good ideas and passion for it. The IP going free for all is basically just the threat to so it actually happens.
And companies just sitting on an IP doing nothing with it isn't something positive for it either. I would even go further and apply the same to mechanics for games, just look at shadow of Mordor and the nemesis system. It is a great mechanic with tons of potential and possiblitys but the studio has it patented and is doing nothing with it.
Companys just should not be allowed to sit on great ideas like a fat dragon and do nothing with it cause at the same time they instantly sprint to court if someone else tries to use an IP/idea they own but ignore
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@Xray said:
As much as i would want Dead Space in the game, i believe that ship has sailed. The time to do it was when the remake came out. Since EA canned the remake of the second game i believe EA has put the series to bed forever. I would love to be proven wrong though and it being added to this game.
That's sad to hear, I really think companies should be required to do something with an IP they own or they lose it if they abandon it for to long
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074496#Comment_4074496
Lots of perks are unfair. It's an unfair game. But, as I've already said, the killer can see the survivors, which makes it extra unfair. If the survivors could see the killer than yeah, they'd all put on Calm Spirit for Doc or Iron Will for Spirit, but they can't. Lightborn is also way more popular than Calm Spirit because it's more likely to be useful. I rarely see Calm Spirit.
If I bring lightborn and you see that at your first pallet blind three minutes in the game you now know you have to do gens
The typical thing is to fake not having Lightborn as much as possible, not to make it super obvious at a pallet. And if more than one person has a flashlight and they're not on comms, you get value more than once by surprising them.
Maybe it is because blinds are the only weapon of survivors, maybe it is because of people that farm clips or maybe it is because among people that like torches there are those who use them cause they want to screw with the killer and those are obviously gonna be loud about hating lightborn.
I know it's popular to hate survivors for using flashlights (or doing gens, or holding W, or looking at you too hard, or doing literally anything) but it's a valid item in the game with perks and playstyles revolving around it. I don't want to deal with it myself so I use Lightborn, but that doesn't mean I can't understand the perk should have been nerfed a long time ago. All the complaints around Fast Track are that it gives survivors free value for killer actions. Lightborn is similar, particularly the aura read, which shouldn't be there at all.
All I know it that if bhvr announces they are reworking lightborn I quietly deinstall the game
Quitting a game over one perk change? Bit dramatic.
Yes the killer can see the survs in lobby but like I said this is part of the games balance. He is the hunter that stalks his prey he will obviously gather some info and react accordingly.
And I would not quit because I just lose a perk I like. Lightborn makes the game playable for me and many others.
Lightborn gets used by everyone that has problems with light sensitivity cause the blinding screen for some reason is made in a way the player himself gets blinded and in my personal case my brain struggles with losing vision in games. When I get blinded and I move around I get dizzy and I need more then just a short moment to reorientate once the blind is over. I don't know why that is, someone once told me it could be because of object performance which is something I do struggle with irl.
Every blind turns into a full on stun for me that's why I even have lightborn equipped when I don't see torches in the lobby.
I am aware that Devs can't work around every health issue tho. They could adjust the brightness of the screen for light sensitive people but not seeing things is what the blind is supposed to do so without lightborn I would just need to quit. And cause I would like to keep playing I will always argue in favour of lightborn
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I mean if buying it for cells is optional I'm not against it if the artist get a cut.
I don't exactly swim in shards, I know I have to hold on to every single one I get until the diner legion skin releases and I'm probably not gonna have enough to by it at that time anyway
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074488#Comment_4074488
Do you think I have anger for Lightborn?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LSDB54YDLK2X/screenshot-20260423-002313.jpg
It's an unfair perk. That's why I use it. It's one of two anti-item perks you can choose based on what you see in the lobby, and get likely value. What are you going to do about toolboxes? Bring regress? You probably are already doing that. A medkit? Not really worth changing anyting for. Keys? Oh no they can open chests fast! Fog vials? Who even cares? Maps? Now you know there'll be a boon totem. Free info, no need to counter. But flashlights are just deleted. You also get free aura read for doing absolutely nothing. And again, it's not just items. Flashbang and Blast Mine are perks. If someone has a build devoted solely to blinds you delete the whole thing with one perk.
In reality it benefits the survivor side by not having two survivors in chase.
This honestly reads like satire. "I'm helping you be better at the game by choosing how you'll play. You're welcome." Use the perk, don't use it, I don't care, but accept that it's unfair.
I mean if light born is unfair calm spirit is unfair too tho.
The only difference is that the survivor can't react to the killer but that is part of the games balance.
I think lightborn gets talked about in the first place not because it stops a playstyle but because it stops a playstyle that is well liked by people that want to interfere with the killer and don't want or enjoy sitting at gens.
If I bring lightborn and you see that at your first pallet blind three minutes in the game you now know you have to do gens. I know that this is frustrating but we don't see complaints like that about calm spirit countering scream builds and doc. And we don't see complaints like that about plague and legion making heal builds worthless. (We do see complaints about legion but more about men's then healing)
Maybe it is because blinds are the only weapon of survivors, maybe it is because of people that farm clips or maybe it is because among people that like torches there are those who use them cause they want to screw with the killer and those are obviously gonna be loud about hating lightborn.
All I know it that if bhvr announces they are reworking lightborn I quietly deinstall the game
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While I would like a mimic killer I do know any mimic killer is doomed to either be incredibly week cause Comms ruin their power or have the mimic thing just be a fun gimmick but not actually the power that matters.
But most importantly I do not want a mimic killer when it costs me my main. As a separate killer? Sure why not but killer reworks should always keep the core of the killer and for legion that is hit and run, wounding all survivors repeatedly and being fast with full control
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Does that mean not matter where the killer is in the pallet area you can't pull it down once he starts to swing?
Because it is on purpose that you can't throw the pallet if the killer is deep enough in the pallet area
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073999#Comment_4073999
There has been tons of topics of this it would screw up achievements as survivors need to physically escape. I am also against even the survivor insta abandon when last go down thing that is already in the game. 10 seconds should be a grace period before the abandon option comes available.
It would just create the killer version of the door open → abandon. That is totally not where this game should be going.
Right bhvr should put a bot in so the game does not automatically end when the killer abandons. That not doesn't even need to be tailored for every killer cause that bot is only there to stop the game from ending via abandon
And there should be a grace period but when I waited ten or fifteen seconds with an open gate not chasing anyone and they don't leave they are waiting to be toxic and that's when I should be able to just leave
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I honestly don't know what is stopping them.
They already have a killer that has four different body's. Just make it like it is for legion where one of the cosmetics decides what body get used and the other two cosmetics work for all body's.
The only thing I can think of that stops them from doing exactly that is money. They know nobody is going to buy a new torso skin that makes you mina for the same price they can sell those skins now and those skins generally sell not bad
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073783#Comment_4073783
Of course people locked in vault/drop animation will dodge the hit. Forgot about that
Ok that's literally game design working as intended.
When you are animation locked you obviously can't dodge, that's an opportunity for the killer to strike you've it with M1 or M2.
That's even a tactic for killers to pressure a survivor to go for a vault/drop so you can get a hit with an ability that can be dodged otherwise. Thats true for every killer ability not only Xenos tail.
And this is also true for killers, they also get animation locked that's why you can blind them when the pick up, vault, get stunned or break something
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I don't like the turrets when I play Xeno.
Not because they take me out of power but because the motion sensor takes away any possibility to play stealthy and for me the xenomorph is a stealthy ambush predator
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Yes I don't know why this isn't an option already.
There is no gameplay tied to the blind actually blinding the player too.
I personally can't leave the lobby without lightborn but not because of the brightness but because I don't react well to losing vision in games. When I move around wile being blinded I get dizzy so every blind is a stun for me. But I know this isnt going to change cause that's a part of blinding that needs to be there
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I don't get why people are even discussing this.
Activate the simple killer bot that already exists and let the killer abandon once a gate is open.
I don't want to sit around and wait out the timer while survs are spamming vaults and lockers cause they think they deserve a little butt dance at the gate while being completely safe.
And no pushing them out is not the way to deal with them
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@Yarheeguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072932#Comment_4072932
Okay, thank you for giving your thoughts and really want a discussion of this.
Are you sure Frieren is more powerful than the Entity? I'm not even sure if she's even on par with Vecna, let alone more powerful than him. I would imagine Vecna would be if Serie had the power of the demon king, and I can imagine Vecna is more powerful than either of them.
I do want to know how strong her mental barrier is, and whether it is based on using mana. That's pretty much the make-or-break for me and this idea.
If it's something similar to Aura's ability, where power and age are factors to pass the barrier. If so, then the Entity would be the most powerful as it would be much older than Frieren and being an interdimensional cosmic creature that consumes worlds and creates realms inside of itself based on memories. It would surely surpass her own powers.
I don't think Frieren is stronger then Vecna but I think she should be on a similar power level of we look at the spells she is able to throw. The fight against her clone showed that pretty well but a direct comparison is always hard when you take characters from different universes since their magic work on different systems.
I also don't think she is more powerful than the entity but I don't think that this would be required to withstand the entity because I also don't necessarily think vecna is more powerful.
I think we first have to look at what the entity can and can not do. The entity is a god and it seems that it has absolut control over its realm, being able to create and change maps how ever it seems fit. The entity is also able to manipulate those who are inside its realm but here comes the tricky part.
The entity is able to renew their bodys without a problem after every trail and it looks like the entity possibly made the survivors body's more durable and easy to heal with simple bandages, otherwise there would not be much of a trail that generated emotions to feed on. One hit from Billy's chainsaw would be the end for a survivor and even a good smack with tricksters bat could knock someone out for good. And the legion for example has a power boost from the entity cause they are all young adults that would struggle to deal with survivors like Jeff or Chris.
So the entity absolutely has control over matter in its realm but when it comes to the minds this is where the power of this eldrich God seem to start lacking.
The entity is able to forbid survivors to fight back, they can't jump the killer or take their weapon. They can't take hatchets from the lockers and characters that should be able to defeat most non monster killers even unarmed like Chris or Leon can't just pin down ghost face. But it is unclear if the entity controls their minds or if they just get tortured to comply or if the entity just controlled the matter and just don't allow them.to.pick up weapons.
I personally think the second thing is true, we know the entity tortures killers that disobey which would be unnecessary if it could mind control them and someone like trapper certainly doesn't has the power to withstand mind control. And then we have characters like the ghoul who is normally a good guy and it is canon that the entity makes him hunt by keeping him in a state of eternal hunger. This doesn't sound like mind control and more like control over how his body functions, something we know the entity can do.
Vecna got a seal in his neck to damp his power that also doesn't scream "I can control him" and even normal humans tend to to what they want. Both blight and that other guy (I forgot his name) fled the trails and managed to evade the entity which shows that they are not controlled and the entity isn't even omnipresent and all knowing.
There is a fan theory that says killers with white eyes are controlled by the entity by it makeing them perceive the survivors differently and let them look like someone the killer would want to kill. But this is just a theory (except it got proven until now and I missed that) but I really like it.
So I think Frieren would be way more trouble for the entity then she is worth. The entity can't control her and even if her mental fortitude is not strong enough to stop the entity from making her see the survivors as demons (which she would absolutely kill) the entity could not dampen her magic because the seal is more or less something the killers like vecna and Dracula took willingly as a signe of good will cause they both want to stay in the entity's realm for their own reasons. Frieren would not accept her magic being suppressed when she thinks she has to fight demons.
So Frieren would make trouble and try to help the survivors and free them and while she could not actually harm the entity she probably could get some if not all survivors out.
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Wiggeling is not supposed to be a means to escape the killers grasp, at least not as a regularly used tool.
That's why we have good hook spread on most maps and that's why you typically need to coordinate with your team with sabo and breakout to get a wiggle escape.
The killer hooking is what is supposed to happen after he downed you that's why you always need atleast one other survivor to stop the killer from picking a downed survivor up too.
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Ok so I will try to go at this point by point.
- I am fairly certain the progression gets faster the longer the killer is there
- If the killer has everyone down the survivors get the option to abandon without a penalty which means you don't have to wait out till he hooks or you are bleed out. Why should you get a pickup when the killer pulls a good play?
- The wiggle mechanic was never meant as a means to escape the killer on a regular basis. It only exists so the killer has to eventually hook you cause you don't bleed out on his shoulder and to make sure he can't hook you in the basement every time you go down. You only see people wiggle free if the whole team pulls works for it.
- I don't think that change is needed. Why should the killer not be able to block it from being thrown? When he enteres deep enough into the pallet for you to not be able to throw it you did not react fast enough.
- We see who is hooked because of people going for all plain Dwight lobbys. There is not remembering which standard Dwight you already hooked. People that tunnel just go for the meg with the red top they don't look at the hooks of that survivor cause they know who they target except if you have people going for the same plain survivor and even that doesn't work anymore because we can see who we are chasing on the HUD
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@DemonicDemons said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4071794#Comment_4071794
Before we start I'd like to mention that I never, not once, said do nothing or go afk and I'd appreciate it if you and your coordinator don't put words in my mouth.
Now where did I encourage going afk in my post? Your statement 'The coordinator was saying that survivors going afk was promoting negative gameplay behavior' literally doesn't make sense because I never made that statement, could you clarify?
"So like what you mean to tell me is, if I see survivors doing nonsense it's okay for me to just hide in a locker
and do small actionsuntil they're all dead so I can escape hatch instead of participating in normal gameplay because they're obviously throwing the game? Not much to do because I know I'm already going to lose right? Alright bet." I mean if they just missed the 'And do small actions' sentence then maybe I could understand.I feel like you didn't read the original content of the post before commenting yourself or misread/misunderstood yourself to have missed that or simply took your coordinator at their word, with that being said and just to get this out of the way, in the scenario I have 3 team mates whom haven't gone down or gotten hooked and are participating in normal gameplay, for me to hide in lockers and do the bare minimum amount of progress for the entirety of the game, being essentially afk in your eyes simply to use hatch as a method of escape, yes I agree and would consider that negative gameplay.
Now with that out of the way, I specifically said hide in a locker and do small actions until my team mates whom are purposely throwing the game are all dead securing a win through hatch escape instead of participating in normal gameplay because in this scenario I literally cannot. In this instance I'd like to be technical, I'm technically participating in normal gameplay according to you, this is because by your standard I'm still progressing the game despite it being at a slower rate than normal so despite your opposition to the argument I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that playing this way is 'doing nothing' or is 'essentially being afk' because just like the killer camping hook in your eyes is somehow still progressing the game, I'm also still progressing the game by actually engaging in actions therefore despite however slow it is, I cannot actually be doing nothing or be essentially afk as you & your coordinator claim unless you're assuming I'm actually just sitting in a locker which isn't the statement I made.
So lets be honest, your argument doesn't even make sense or hold up in my opinion, if I hide in a locker until the killer goes away to do small amounts of progress after 3 of my team mates purposely got 2 hooks each one after another and one died with 5 gens still left, I'm somehow doing nothing and am essentially afk according to you thus promoting negative gameplay but unlike the killer I still actually have to get out and do actions on totems/gens or suffer a penalty of crows above my head alerting the killer to my position guaranteeing my death whereas if the killer sits in the exact same spot as seen in the pictures without moving, camping an entire death from first hook state, they get no penalty simply because they sat just outside the anti-camp radius, can you please explain which one is more afk in this scenario?
Lastly, I need clarification in this scenario based off your statement, if 5 gens are up and I get a down at the very beginning of the game, I put a survivor on a hook and camp just outside the anti-camp radius preventing a save, is that okay because I'm still progressing the game in your eyes or is it only okay when it's the last gen? Because you made the statement 'the difference is, the killer is progressing the game even by camping, a survivor doing nothing and effectively AFK is not.' Is it only considered toxic tunneling if it happens at the beginning of the game cause I've heard you guys talk about it on stream but here you are saying if there's one gen left it's okay as a killer to camp hook because they're still progressing the game. Can you also explain how camping a hook and taking zero actions for the entire last generator and all hook states is actively progressing the game? Like do you really consider this positive gameplay because I don't see how camping a survivor on first hook till death with a gen left is positive for any survivor but hey, I guess if that's the standard you wanna set, thanks!
A killer that is camping progresses the game because he still is doing his objective. He is just doing it in a toxic way.
The survivor equivalent to camping would be slamming the last gens and leaving without trying to rescue you from the hook.
In both cases the objective gets done. If the killer was standing there not doing anything meaning not defending the hook that would be him being afk cause he doesn't progress his objective.
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@DemonicDemons said:
Whenever a new idea is brought up the entire community shuts it down not just my ideas but others as well. Even the possibility of new ideas gets shut down on a regular basis both by the community and in some cases the devs and community managers. All I'm saying is that for a company that prides itself on diversity and inclusion when it comes to diversifying gameplay and inclusion of ideas the community seems to want the complete opposite which to me is ironic considering the company prides itself on both these things. There is no rage bait here, I'm simply stating the obvious.
Could you give one or two examples of what you mean?
Cause I can't even remember when I last saw a idea from the community that was about diversity or inclusion.
Except maybe when discussions about wanted killers come up and inevitably someone says giant spider (I want that) and someone else inevitably throws the phobia card on the table.
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What consequences does a anon player not have to face tho?
You can still report them. The only thing you can't do is visit their steam profile
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073400#Comment_4073400
I mean I named two things they could still do but we have to accept that tunneling will always exist.
Sure, it'll exist, in that it will likely always be an option.
It just shouldn't always be the categorically best option, and there's ways to limit scenarios in which that is the case. It'd also help if we'd look at the problem without immediately leaning towards nerfing the survivor side.
And you are right old ds did a good job at discouraging tunneling but because it was very strong it was also very good to use when the killer doesn't tunnel.
It wasn't. DS cannot be activated by the survivor and the killer, when someone tries to DS-bait, can simply leave the survivor slugged out on the ground. That'll slow the survivors down more.
The only problem now is that OTR permits you to take another extra hit, which can be fixed by changing OTR to an info black-out perk. Then DS goes back to 5 seconds, or X seconds basekit with Y seconds added with the perk, and you'd have a meaningful deterrent to tunnelling.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073401#Comment_4073401
Out of curiosity, what are you referring to when you say that all we got from the anti-tunnel PTBs was a nerf to anti-tunnel?
The basekit duration for Haste and Endurance went up, that's a buff, no?
Oh, true, +5 seconds to basekit Borrowed Time.
And then -50% duration to OTR.
I think my big problem in general is just that defensive perks will absolutely be used offensively if they are strong.
I am a killer only player and I kinda pride myself on the fact that I dont tunnel, camp or slug with very obvious exceptions like, I won't let you do my hex just cause you came from the hook, I won't just go away from the hook when I see Leon and Dwight "sneaking" towards it etc. but I don't think that is the tunneling or camping that is actually a problem.
And when I get hit by perks that are ment to be a defense against extrem tunnelers or campers it sucks. Sure I get pressure when I slug them but those situations go like this: I need two hits to get rid of the guy that wants to block me and then I can't pick him up but when I slug him he will also be up in no time cause he probably has unbreakable or a guy with a heal perk is not far away. And the guy I wanted to chase is definitely gone and I got a little pressure for not advancing my objective while two people were doing gens.
Thats why I would rather see bhvr go for more stealth for the unhooked while the unhooker gets the heat with aura reading plus other incentives to go for unique hooks then them just making stronger anti tunnel perks
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073365#Comment_4073365
This defeatist talk is just another strategy to keep the needle from moving.
It's nonsense that there's nothing they can do. We know that killers were less eager to tunnel when they were very likely to be hit in the face with a 5 second stun from DS, so why is that not back?
We got two attempts, the second completely half-hearted, and the only thing that rolled out of it was a nerf to anti-tunnel because the ones in charge of the anti-tunnel design are the tunnellers.
I mean I named two things they could still do but we have to accept that tunneling will always exist.
And you are right old ds did a good job at discouraging tunneling but because it was very strong it was also very good to use when the killer doesn't tunnel.
Essentially if anti tunnel perks are very strong you have the perfect perk for every situation. When the killer tunnels it does it's job and if the killer doesn't tunnel you force him to do it.
If we want stronger anti tunnel perks we need bhvr to find a way to make the game recognise that the unhooked survivor does not try to escape but to body block the killer.
Bhvr needs to work with positive reinforcement and give killers who don't tunnel something nice, that could reduce tunneling but people that want to tunnel will always tunnel and there is no stopping that
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@CTL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073216#Comment_4073216
The idea was if a killer is camping and survs need to "trade" I hate the idea of trades, killers should not get free downs because of surv altruism, a healthy surv goes for unhook, they start it get hit from killer what cancels the animation, they then get the unhook, in which the killer always can hit them again for the down, its not making them impossible to kill, its just giving the surv that has been forced to "trade" a chance to have a chase or get some distance. If the killer can be in a postion to get 2 helth states for free, there should be a perk to stop that. I see most about old borrowed time however that was quite a while back and the game has changed enough to warrant a perk that helps.
But you only think about the camping situation where the survivor was forced to go for that trade and could need a perk to help with that.
There are also situations where the "camping" is triggered by overly altruistic survivors that don't wait at all for the killer to leave the hook.
Hook timers are quite long now and still people act like the game is lost if they wait for the killer to leave. When the Dwight blatantly obvious runs straight for the unhook when I am still right there then he should go down in a trade cause that was the worst play possible.
And I know that's not the situations you intended this perk for but these are the situations that will see the perk being used
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072545#Comment_4072545
The killer uses on perk slot to weaken one of the survivor skills.
'Weaken' is an understatement for this perk. Chase perks don't instantly end chases. Regression perks don't set a gen to 0. NTH just completely undoes any attempt at stealth.
The value is that he spend less time searching. But that wont win them the game
Yes it will. Time is literally the currency of victory for both sides. Being able to cut out all time spent actually having to find a survivor is going to make a significant difference.
Now you need to decide if its a good time to stealth
In the presence of these perks, it is never a good time to stealth, since stealth requires investment on the survivor side, and these perks turn the pay-off from being in the survivors' favour, to the killer's. Stealth usually means being caught out of position for the start of a chase, so if these perks are in play, not only does stealth not work, it actually benefits the killer.
Not taking aggro.
If the killer spends time looking for a survivor they can't find, that's helping the team in much the same way taking a chase would.
Killer wasting time searching. If its too much, its far easier to stay on the obvious location: the hooked survivor. Thats why tunneling killer dont bother with NtH, its pointless for their playstyle.
I'll double back on this one with a later point…
The value of perks. The killer has only 4 slots. Having one perk hard-countering it, is a bit much. You could mix it with perks like self preservation, but suddenly you need to sacrifice more perk slots. And it is/was always a gamble. Both sides dont know what the other side will bring and if they get value of their perk build.
Except that one perk didn't hard-counter it for anyone but the person running it, meaning that it'd be 1/4 of both sides' loadout in order to be fully negated.
Not wanted gameflow. Its highly subjective (or the devs have data to back it up), but the decision was that the catch-game is more interesting than hide-and-seek.
And this is kind of hypocritical with regards to the earlier remark about tunnelling. If tunnelling was a problem, it'd get fixes. It'd get addressed. But given that it's been buffed repeatedly as well, apparently it's not a problem, barring one exception: When it can be used as an excuse to nerf something on the survivor side.
The double whammy here is that the worst version of stealth is still there, ratting is still possible by just using lockers. The only thing these changes have done is make it harder for someone to contribute while playing stealthy. In other words: In their efforts to fix stealth being uninteresting, they made it more uninteresting.
The thing about tunneling and it getting fixed is that it's just not easy.
Bhvr and a big part of the community acknowledged the fact that tunneling is a problem but there is not much they can do.
They gave the survivors perks to help with tunneling and they gave the survivors a basekit defense to help them but that's about it. You can't really do much more to help with tunneling because in its core tunneling is the killer doing their objective.
You can't just not allow the killer to do their objective meaning you can't make it so the killer can not tunnel a survivor, you can only make it harder and there is not much more they can do to make it harder.
The only things they could still do is give the unhooked survivor a bit of elusive and force the unhooker to take the heat by traveling his aura and they could work with buffs for going for unique hooks, but that's it I think. There is not much more you can do since more defensive tools would mean more tools that also get used offensive whenever a killer does not tunnel and that stuff bhvr already tried with punishing the killer for tunneling was bs cause that also got used offensive.
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I do like the 1v1 thing and I would add to it that the killer can use the same portal once a gate is open to leave the trail so they don't have to wait out the timer when survs are waiting in the gate while tagging
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I get your intention but that perk would just allow for better bad unhooks.
While it would help with camping it would also help when a surv just unhooks way to early and without thinking.
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All I want for demo is a brown add-on that takes the ability to make portals away from me and lets them spawn in fixed locations the same as springtrap, xeno and onrio do.
I forget the portals all the time if they are fixed I would jump around the map far more
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While Frieren certainly could be seen as a horror monster by the demons she doesn't fit dbd at all.
If we ignore that for a moment then we have to acknowledge that frieren would probably be way to powerful for the entity to keep be it as a killer (she would never do that) or as a survivor. The entity simply could not stop her from casting spells. Mind control is out of the question because her mental defense is incredibly strong and her mind itself is so strong.
In the first season we have the scene with the demon that taps into your mind and makes a fake image of a loved one to lure you. That demon makes a perfect version so you let all defense fall but frierens mind was so strong the demon could not make a version of Himmel that would want to hurt Frieren. That wasn't just her belief in him but also mind not allowing the demon to alter Himmel.
And while the entity could put the same seal on Frieren that Vecna got to dampen her magic, just like Vecna the seal would hold exactly as long as she allows it. Vecna also just acts like the entity can control him in any way.
In the end Frieren would probably not be able to harm the entity but she would mess with the trails until the entity kicks her out cause she would not allow the killers to harm the survivors
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I am not a big fan of fomo and I do think there shouldn't be situations today where you will miss out on a cosmetic for ever just cause you didn't participate in a specific event that year.
But the legacy is a bit different in my eyes. You had to grind for them and from what I have heard it wasn't that easy to get and they are a token of recognition that you were there back in the day.
I think what could be cool is to get a new legacy
collection to honor the tenth anniversary so we can have a similar token ourselves. And to not feed fomo the same outfits come back next year again but I'm a different colour so you can have the nice cosmetics and people can have there badge
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072606#Comment_4072606
But why am I not meant to?
Probably because we are not god.
Like I know certain religions don't want their prayers to be translated even into the common used language that the believers use every day.
It's something about keeping the intend of the prayer cause translations can struggle to keep the original meaning and weight of words intact and of course its a bit about separating the believers and the devout cause they studie to understand the prayers.
Atleast that's what my pastor said when I asked him why some really hardcore Catholic groups do most of their mass in Latin when almost no-one really understands it today
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Oooor you wait three seconds and you are out anyway.
Like you don't save any time doing it and I don't really want bhvr to finger around in the spaghetti code if it's not needed that's to dangerous.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072593#Comment_4072593
Then why don't we just get rid of the problematic, 0 thought add-ons (and perks, it's high time Dissolution is looked at…they could easily just delay the pallet break by ~5 seconds after a fast vault if they wanted to keep the core concept) first instead of doing as drastic of a change as reducing the movement speed of a killer that doesn't directly down with their power (unlike Blight) and has to earn their downs through normal M1 gameplay, survivor misplay (leaving a loop with no game plan), or skillful bodyblocking cutoffs (that typically have some amount of counterplay)?
I just don't think Ghoul is that much of a problem anymore after the revault change. On the stronger side yes, but mediocre Ghouls kinda get dunked on if you and your team know what you're doing unless the map is really favorable for them (like a bunch of disconnected 50/50 pallets that don't do anything unless you get the stun). The problem I've noticed is that most teams are just bad at keeping up with the macro. Really, really bad. They fail to heal at the right time, they aren't mindful of where they go down, they don't pay attention to chase indicators, they don't account for info perks, they waste time like it's 2016 DbD. That's a problem non-specific to Ghoul that BHVR needs to focus on somehow, since clearly a good chunk of the playerbase is incapable/unwilling of properly learning on their own.
Is dissolution actually problematic?
Maybe it is to strong on certain killers but I never got the perk to do anything. Even on dredge itself who in theory could tp back to the side of the pallet where the surf is and then land a hit I never got it to work.
Either they instantly vault which is less then three seconds after the hit or they run through you to another loop cause they lost collision.
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Ok and how?
How do you stop tunneling? Because bhvr did try not to long ago and it didn't work.
You can't give the survivor more defense because every single defensive tool gets turned into an offensive one asap. You can't punish the killer for hooking the same surv twice because then you punish him for doing his objective and you give the survivor a shield he will use against the killer.
The only thing you could do is take the survivor and make him invisible, lose collision and make everything on the map invisible to him for X time. Oh and block the usage of items and the interaction with objects after the effect ends for X seconds so he can't coordinate over comms for saves.
Thats the only way you can actually stop tunneling but I don't know if that is something the community would actually like
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@Nehkran said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072469#Comment_4072469
Prevents me from avoiding them in the future.
how are you gonna do that anyway?
are you writing down every players username? that would only work for non steam players since they cant change their names tho.
every steam player can change ttheir name all the time withoutt a problem and you cant see the killers name in he first place
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The question is what exactly does the anon mode prevent you from doing?
You can still report them, what else could you want?
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@SkeletonDance said:
Legion would be way better to play against if they would replace deep wound from Frenzy with a new one that would buff Legion instead
nah as a hit and run killer you need something that makes the sruvivors not work on gens
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a shapeshift killer would be cool bu can we no complely change an existing killer for that?
legion like every oher killer has mains that don wan to lose their favourit killer
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i mean i get what you mean but i have to say i kinda like it this way.
know its a 50/50 if i like the stuff we get or if i dont. when we get outfits its the same 50/50 plus an added 50/50 of if i can even use what we get cause we only get stuff for one chracter per side.
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@Jay_Whyask said:
I think BHVR's idea was pretty good.
You can't hook the same person twice, and you can't sacrifice somebody before getting 4 hooks.
the big question is how do you stop that survivor from doing whatever he wants then?
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033301#Comment_4033301
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033298#Comment_4033298
Am I seeing a pattern here? They seem awfully quick to fix things that benefits the survivor side, but keeping the nerfs in the process. Well, aside from the Streetwise bug.
the palet density update also took very long the be acknowledged and that thing was screwing up killers especially low tier ones
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029322#Comment_4029322
Characters should be both fun to play as and against. If they aren't, we should be looking at how to make them more fun.
Shouldn't really be a debate at all.
The problem with that is that fun is subjective. There are more then enough people who have no problem with legion.
Plus in legions case when people say "mending is annoying" what they mean is "I don't want to be forced to do something other then gens when I am not chased". That gets pretty clear when every single rework idea that doesn't completely changes them switches mend for something the survivor can just ignore and keep doing gens and that is then seen as a fix.
And a good portion of legion hate also comes from the hit and run playstyle. Many survivors want a chase and with legion you mostly get the chase only when you are the last one he reaches. I had so many dcs no matter the killer by simply not chasing that one survivor that is a bit to good in chase or that shows up too often on my screen.
In the end if a character really is a major problem then bhvr of course needs to change them but we are talking major issues. Just not liking the killers power is not a major issue or every killer would need to be reworked. Hell even trapper regularly gets complaints
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029303#Comment_4029303
When the complaints are consistent, yeah we might want to take a look at things.
yes true but in legions case the complaints are "i find this boring" which first of all is super subjective and second its not a good enough reason to change a chracter.
when its not broken dont fix it. there will always be a character that is "annoying" to face and legion has to be the way they are with the mend or the whole legion concept doesnt work and do we just want to have dash and ranged killers with the ocasional stealth killer?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029276#Comment_4029276
It's a live service game, things will change.
How do you think people felt when they changed MoM?
ofcourse things will change but that does not mean they need to turn a dog into cat.
there are ways to change things without taking away from them and sometimes things dont need to change. things that are broken need to change things like legion for example dont really need to change.
the reason many say they need a rework is cause they think its annoying to face. thats not a good reason for a change tho, im sure there are more then enough survivors that think dash powers are annoying or ranged powers. about aura reading and gen regression we see complaints all the time for exaple does that mean we need to change them completly?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029267#Comment_4029267
Sometimes, Killers are just bad concepts. Legion has a cool premise, but he's just never going to be even remotely fun to play against. Same with SM, Twins or Knight.
I made rework ideas back in the day, but now I think they probably just should've gone back to the disguised Killer thing they had going on in the trailer.
there are probably ccountless ideas how to rework every character but if it happens it always sucks no matter how good the new idea is.
i play legion cause they are simple and straight forward, i dont have some dash or ranged power that is either hard to control or you need to hit it or you dont get downs. there is no big makro play with knowing when to tp where and i dont have to rely on survs not using theire eyes with a stealth power.
and the rework could be the most fun well designed killer that bhvr ever made but i would lose the killer i like and that would suck no matter how you see it. not only is the gameplay i like gone but i also have the coinflip if i like how the new version is played or i end up with a character i will never use again.
best case szenario then would be that bhvr would offer back some of the blood points and cells and shards you invested in a chracter if the totally rework it
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029208#Comment_4029208
Yeah, we should've reworked Legion a long time ago. He's always been absolutely horrid to play against, and was widely considered the least fun Killer until SM.
reworks are always a bad idea tho.
ask freddy mains, we now have three types of freddy mains where two have lost the charater they liked. its almost impossible to rework a character for whatever reason and keep the spirit of that character alive.
if we take legion there spirit is fast running with total control, vaulting and wounding people. how are you keeping the spirit of the character while reworking them? for the hit and run playstyle they need some kind of slow down or it cant work, it doesnt have to be mend but it has to be something that survivors also cant just ignore.
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@Pulsar said:
I wonder how many times we'll have to keep doubling-down before we realize that this isn't working lol.
I predicted this years ago, the literal exact form this would take, and what people's responses would be.
Until you make the average game enjoyable/worth playing out for a reason that isn't brownie points, people will find ways to quit. Instead of doing that though, we're gonna double-down on punishments that demonstrably don't work and waste resources doing that instead.
the problem is people dc over so many diffrent things you cant just fix that.
for example i am a legion and plague main. if id get a penny for every dc i could play dbd for a living.
what the solution to make the game enjoyable here? deleting/completly changing these two killers into something else? cause thats the only thing that would stop people from dcing against them
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772828#Comment_3772828
That argument doesn't work the other way around because you bought a 1v4 game. It's hardly fair for people to decide they'd like DbD better if they drastically overhauled the fundamentals of the game, and then expect the regular 1v4 crowd to be okay with being turfed out.
so in that way no major changes are ever allowed to happen if it changes anything on the existing game.
thats just stupid. a game evolves and if many people enjoy 2v8 bhvr needs to work out a way how both 1v4 and 2v8 can exist together.
i for one will never ever play a single game of 1v4 ever again simply because i love that im not alone anymore. since i started dbd i struggle to play more then 3 games as a killer cause when all the pressure rest on me alone i struggle. now i have team mate and i feel so much better playing.