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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077913#Comment_4077913
OH RIGHT! It's not like Nurse, Blight, or Ghoul can instantly delete that 66 meters of free distance or anything…
I believe you forgot about Lich, dredge, wraith, spirt, clown, oni, twins with victor, onryo, singularity, wesker, drac, krasue.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077906#Comment_4077906
if you can't get somewhere in 66 meters of free distance, you are playing the game wrong. you failed at that point.
Your longest chase time is 37 seconds, only just over half of the endurance.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077885#Comment_4077885
you could say 4 man slugging is abusing a mechanic in a way that isn’t intended.
It is, you can even go in the game go into the killer guide of how to win, it says carry survs to a hook and hang them, the game it self says that hooking is the way to win in the game yet 4 man slugging is abusing the game mechanic of a surv being allowed on the ground before pickup, hell if every killer instead of downing survs always grabbed them instead and carried instantly, while not letting them drop people would be better for the game.
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077882#Comment_4077882
Are you saying it is the killers gameplays fault that you can't control your emotions and work with it?
Many killers wants to for fun to kill everyone as fast as possible, or reach red rank 1 for the 2mill reward. And other personal challenges. Do you know how satisfying it is to kill all survivors.
Just understand, killers who only tunnel, it gives an advantige for survivors to work on gens (depending how good to loop whith whats left to use)
Money on the line?
Tunneling is needed as a strategy in dbd. Sometimes it dosen't happen. But as a survivor bding tunneled, try to waste as much time for the killer.
Killers who want to have fun by the misery of the other side are just terrible people, reaching rank 1 red is a matter of play time not skill, and personal challenges ? XD Most killers have one objective how can i make the most fun out of my game while making sure the surv don't have fun. BTW before you get angry at that statement the DBD discord is full of killers that talk about how they try to achive this.
The advantage of it lets other survs just do gens is correct with high MMR/comp games however in casual games I don't want a friend to sit on a hook and press space bar every now and then for the sake of winning I want them to have fun too, If I was ok with that I would just play killer solo and tell my friends to play the offline chrome game, its the same thing you press one button every 5 seconds to play that, its very fun and mind numbing.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077900#Comment_4077900
If you can't get somewhere to safety in 15 seconds of immunity, you did something wrong. 15 seconds gets you 66 meters of distance before the killer can hit you. Keep in mind that most maps are 98 x 98 square meters roughly (roughly t he shape of a square but sometimes more rectangular. When you factor in the edges of the map are around 10ish meters, that is ALMOST enough to cross an entire map. If you can't get to a pallet, or a window, or something in 15 seconds, i'm sorry, but that is on you.
Windows are useless because a killer can ignore the endurance and grab you and most pallets on map now are on a small loop that after throwing the pallet the loop is unsafe even from M1 killers, this is because the killer in those 15 seconds of waiting will have blood lust by then.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077887#Comment_4077887
The point is, that when killers say gens go too fast survivors say "just apply pressure 5head" so then killers apply that pressure through things like, slugging and tunneling and now suddenly they are the bad guys.
I want you to really try and reflect on this for a minute, really think about it we have today:
- Basekit BT on unhook
- Anti face camp mechanics
- Anti-3 gen mechanics through the gen kick limit
- Perks that activate on getting unhooked and unhooks like:
- DS
- Dead hard
- Off the Record
- Fast Track (was nerfed at least)
At what point do you stop and realize that this mess was literally created because killers are constantly punished for doing their objective, while survivors are rewarded for failing at theirs?
And what will happen when you add anti-slug mechanics? Killers will just move on to the next thing. At this point i get accused of "proxy tunneling" like what the hell does that even mean? I once got accused of tunneling someone while playing as sadako. Mind you i "tunneled" this person and never actually hooked them, and was just teleporting to TVs
And as always i need to add my disclaimer. I DO NOT THINK that tunneling, and slugging and camping are good for the game. They are not, they need to go. But not in some half baked mechanic that is just going to get abused once again by SWFs that is so bad that comp doesn't even let the mechanic exist (you aren't allowed to unhook with AFC in comp btw, did you know that?) there's a reason for it.
At what point do we go back to the drawing board and realize that this isn't something that you can just bandaid fix and you need to fundamentally look at the base mechanics of the game?
One thing you forgot to mention is that comp also bans full slugging, but obv you don't include it because it makes the killers who full do it look bad.
The difference in Comp SWF's to casual players who want to have fun with friends is massive however the difference between Comp killers and killers that just play the game is nothing compared to Survs its like this:
Skill levels between groups:
Comp SWF's → ————-
I
I
I
I
Casual SWF'S →
I
Casual Survs ->
I
Bad Survs —→ ————
Killers:
Comp Killers → ————-
I
I
Casual Killers →
I
Bad killers → ————-
This is a very rough estimate on skill needed but you get the idea.
Just to counter somethings you said, yes we have base kit BT. I'm glad a killer can say on our arse and wait 15 seconds so good.
Dead Hard, a perk that have been nerfed and a lot of survs can't use due to ping, what killers will always have advantage on.
Off the record, Never used it, Perks that are "needed" against play style type should not be a thing, perks should counter perks, play style should counter play style.
Fast track, A perk that was claimed to be broken, however it was never brought up that it was bugged and that if you used a brand new part on a gen and try to use tokens of fast track at the same time fast track did nothing, meaning when people complained about it the perk was in actual fact doing nothing most of the time and the real issue was the fact that a whole team was running hyper focus and stake out and brand new parts, most vids I saw from streamers claiming fast track is broken and they tried to show case it they put up a little timer to show the speed and they did the gen quick but they didn't even have any fast track tokens, yet they made it seem that it was fast track, it was just another target and excuse for some killers to be no better way to put it arseholes. Best example I can give is the Hens vid on YT about fast track.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077844#Comment_4077844
Punishing people for playing the game does not solve the problem because any possible mechanic they could create to deal with this will be able to be abused in a way that its not intended.
They instead need to fundamentally rework the base mechanics of the game such that tunneling is not possible from a gameplay perspective, and that slugging would be worse than just hooking the survivor.
And why is that we need anti-tunnel, anti-camp, anti-3-gen and now anti-slug mechanics in place but not anti-gen rush?
Diminishing returns was a whole excuse for base kit anti gen rush.
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@Nightram said:
In 2v8 killers wait around 30 minutes for a match. They will not show mercy! "Some do". Yes they will go for the injured and easy prey. Depending on a good loop or not.
In 1v4 the tunneling is a strategic play. And is a part of dbd. Some killers try not to tunnel and camp. And some do this if they really have to. To put pressure.
My suggestion to you: focus on a different mindset, it is just a game, and you can easily go next round(yes it is exhausting/frustrating to be tunneled many rounds in a row). You can also change your playstyle. Or go for anti tunneling perks just in case.
The only punishment you can do to tunneling killers. When you stand in the exit gate and T-bag because they didn't get you xD
I would like to add that your suggestion to change mindset and understand that its just a game can be said to killers also, not every killer has to 4k not every killer (70%) has to use the best "strategy". The problem comes from comp play, since the killers there tunnel, its copied against people who want to play a game for fun, and don't have money on the line.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073336#Comment_4073336
But you only think about the camping situation where the survivor was forced to go for that trade and could need a perk to help with that.
There are also situations where the "camping" is triggered by overly altruistic survivors that don't wait at all for the killer to leave the hook.
Hook timers are quite long now and still people act like the game is lost if they wait for the killer to leave. When the Dwight blatantly obvious runs straight for the unhook when I am still right there then he should go down in a trade cause that was the worst play possible.
And I know that's not the situations you intended this perk for but these are the situations that will see the perk being used
I 100% agree that some survs will be incredibly stupid, and I personally know the difference between a killer that is proxy camping compared to another surv pulling Infront of killer with no need. I bought this up with the intention of stop killers from waiting outside the anti camp range but has mobility or reach the hook at any moment/has ranged what is alot of killer now.
Going back to the surv being stupid part, that will always be in the game there will be no way to stop this and the only way forward from that is for those survs to get better, what would be a miracle, however this happens currently still, I don't want to suggest a perk that rewards a bad play style, that being said maybe a addition to the perk where a surv has to be on hook for set amount of time for it to active so it doesn't reward bad survs, just punishes the killers that proxy.
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@Carth said:
The macro play of knowing when to unhook would take a hit from this perk existing and being real how would it not follow the old BT lifecycle? Aka you're throwing if you don't run it and it needs to be made basekit eventually. The idea of permanently turning off hook trading is that strong
They have precedent of perks removing macro play, being all aura perks both surv and killer, this would be perk that would only effect killers that are playing like tools, and yes I do agree that it would make some survs be very stupid with unhooks, aka insta pulling before the killer went away, however again how is any different from a perk like windows where if a surv that isn't smart runs it they waste most pallets on the map, a lot of perks have a bad case if a surv who is bad runs it, bad survs with DS get themselves killed and make it obv they have DS so they throw, any surv that runs left behind is a bad surv that rats because of a perk they have, and in full honesty something like this base kit (make it that a surv getting hit doesn't stop the unhook animation) would be a good change for the game. This whole idea was made because of killers that are rewarded for bad gameplay, and I want to remove some of that reward and not make it free, killers wont improve if they only have to chase one person at the start of the game and then wait for hook trades then hook the new person and wait again, its not fun for the survs and I have no idea how that could be fun for the killer to, this perk would stop this situation from happening and force the killer to learn more than just wait near the hook and take the trade, any feature that forces players to be better should be in the game.
The end of the day this is a game it meant to be fun for both sides, and when a killer takes full control of the game by doing this (camping hooks) its ruining the main point of the game, FUN. If killers thing that holding someone on hook perma though the game trough trades if fun, then they are just toxic people that see fun as the misery of others and should not be allowed to play.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Back in my day… This was how Borrowed Time worked…
It resulted in uncontestable hook bombing.
If survs have to hook bomb, its killers like you why I think a perk like this should be in the game.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/466452/new-anti-camp-perk
Surely, make every survivor invincible the whole game. xD If you want to talk about camping it has nothing common with endurance. Old borrowed time used to work like that and it was pain. If you want to fight camper there are perks such as Reassurance, Camaraderie etc., if injured survivor takes endurance after unhooking they are both just straight invulnerable for 15s, creating lose-lose situation to the killer.
The idea was if a killer is camping and survs need to "trade" I hate the idea of trades, killers should not get free downs because of surv altruism, a healthy surv goes for unhook, they start it get hit from killer what cancels the animation, they then get the unhook, in which the killer always can hit them again for the down, its not making them impossible to kill, its just giving the surv that has been forced to "trade" a chance to have a chase or get some distance. If the killer can be in a postion to get 2 helth states for free, there should be a perk to stop that. I see most about old borrowed time however that was quite a while back and the game has changed enough to warrant a perk that helps.
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The thing is blight has always been strong, and probably always will be, however the main reason to the rise of kill% with him in my opinion is the change to surv spawns, since he has the highest mobility in game, and 90% of maps having predictable spawns, they get a chase at the very start of the match and snow ball from that, I do believe that if the spawn changes were reverted blights would take longer to get the first chase, survs could get separated faster. The main point is that the spawn changes are a buff to all killers however the value of that buff is greatly improved on high mobility killers.
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@Hexonthebeach said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072563#Comment_4072563
Did you played killer in live or in custom games?
How many games you have done as killer and when you started?
Just curious you want to be treated as beginner but you already played dbd over one year and know whats going on.
It was never stated that they are a beginner, they mentioned that in regards to actual new players having to deal with killers tunnelling, but I agree that if someone is tunnelled out at 5 gens or even 4 gens left, I say go next, people are saying stay in the match and try to get blood points but you would just earn more in the next match, I also vote "end the game" because if a killer needs to tunnel to win the game like their family are being hold hostage I try to limit their blood points also by giving less hooks, less hits etc.. If that makes me a bad person, I would agree the killer go what they deserved. Its the same agreement with people complaining about 4 survs botting out, the reality of that situation is most likely those survs didn't want to waste their time dealing with these "legitimate strategies". Every killer that employs these "strategies" also just comment be better, what is the most ironic thing, firstly same could be said about the need to tunnel, if the killer just got better then they would not need to tunnel, also they mentions things like DS however the most used killers atm have high mobility and/or ranged so DS's value is very limited, especially with it being a once use thing. For the people that will mention bully squads as a excuse, I agree they are annoying however there isn't really many of them running around maybe around 1 in every 15 games, and the best part is most bully squads still lose the game because as your chasing a surv, you will have 1-2 more survs just following not doing gens and along as your not a complete fool, you will gain more value in the game as to the lost value the survs have from following.
P.s We got conviction we know, a perk that only works in conjunction with other perks and can only be used if the killer slugs.
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It probably would also have to only apply when unhooking another surv, so it doesn't proc on wicked or deli
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
So the endurance goes to the unhooker?
Does the perk disable in end-game?Yes the endurance would go onto the unhooker, and for fairness I would say it should disable at end game.