Starrseed
Starrseed
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5 sec stun OK but not active till doors are open cause a 99 door is basicly open for all purposes so you would just go back to the old times where the killer is in lose lose
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I think the difference is that technically the knight could down you with his power and doc can't. I mean would it be bannable if a huntress hold a three Gen and decides to only dmg you with her power and just sucks at it
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Ahh yes the argument to rule them all.
I talk about how it doesn't feel good to get kills because the enemy screws up instead of my own skill getting me these kills but smarties Mc bigbrain comes to enlightening me.
It's about the fact that m1 killer are just not good and it needs a lot of work and skill to be as good as the more chase oriented killer and that killers should be more even to one another but hey your take surely is the right one cause you say I'm just bad without any proff or arguments to hold that up. You must be fun at partys
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@Eelanos said:
"If it wasn't for survivors being altruistic, I would've gotten 1K every time AT MOST"
Am I not understanding this? Doesn't this mean you got draws and wins most of the time?
Also, didn't doctor not get bloodlust if he spammed the shock ability? That could be why you had issues catching up. Plus, if you shock them when they're near windows or pallets you kinda leave survivors completely defenseless.
I'm just confused because I often run lightborn Freddy and getting at least 2k isn't that difficult.
Even if he got draws or wins if you only win because the enemy screw up it doesn't feel that good. You want to win because you did good and you outplayed them not because they run into you like headless chicken
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Well Eruption might be to strong and is carrying killer a lot atm so how about we let them have it for I don't know how long has old DH carried survivor? Should be fair right.
Jokes aside I'm actually curious to see if bhvr learnt anything and is going to address such problem perks Ina timely manner. I would like to see eruption get reliable counterplay that isn't the perk works when the survivor is totally brain dead like pain res. If you know there is pain res it's impossible to get hit by it if you actually pay attention to the game you play so I would hate that for eruption cause I don't like when a perk only works when the other player makes a mistake then it can't work against good survivor and that's the guy's you need got perks against
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You want to increase nurse cd? She basically needs her power to move around she can't have much of a cd at all or you would need to make her faster
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@hiken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302756#Comment_3302756
it is not, there are perks involing you unhooking yourself like deliverance wich can be game changer in many scenarios, Slippery meat to attempt unhooks with luck offerings, there is even a steam challenge to unhook yourself 50 times so u can see how cool BHVR is with unhooking yourself.
I don't want self unhook gone I want suicide gone
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302902#Comment_3302902
So keep in game breaking stuff to keep more options. I am glad you want return of permanent hook sabotages to the game, because why should survivors be denied alternative gameplay to deny hooking for killer? He can still slug and there's still basement. You know your opponent is trying to win just as hard as you are. Maybe you don't play PvP games?
Can you see it now? Do you understand the issue? Denying actual play time is bad. And excusing it with "opponent is also trying" is 0 argument. The game should be about interaction. Making best play by being afk is detrimental to the game SO it needs to go. Or at least it needs to be not the optimal gameplay.
The ting is you are right camping should not be but to this day no one has delivered a actual good idea that hinders facecamping but let startigic camping still be a thing
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302900#Comment_3302900
Please give example then.
The only thing I can think of is hooking in 3gen. This would be legitimate reason as killer is technically just patrolling his 3gen. But this should not be a problem if the hook area is small enough (12m is small enough) and camping timer would regress at same speed as it progresses (so you can stay within the area for 10s if you stay outside another 10s). But even if this somehow becomes too restrictive (and I don't think so), then this can be specifically programmed around - if there are 2 or more unfinished gens within say 16m from hook, then ignore this protection and consider it survivor screw up/punishment (same way as basement) - but indicate it in hud for everyone.
Okey one example would be the killer camping out the last 10 percent of a hook phase cause all survivor thaught it would be a good idea to let it get risky. It clearly a gamble and I should be able to capitalize on that bad decision.
Another example would be the survivor are just super altruistic I know there are two of them around here i should have the opportunity to steal as much times as possible without getting punished for it its not my fault.
Then there is the case you already mentioned and what's with end game should the killer not campthere?
There are situations where it's Okey to do and believe me I don't want to defend facecamping but bhvr wants camping as a strategy and if used strategic it is fine
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302873#Comment_3302873
Because the survivor objective is an inanimate object and the killer objective is other human players whose experience in the game matters.
Doesn't change that they are right. There is no time to spread hooks equally right now. When three gens are done it would be good to have one surv out of the game cause half there objective is done already and three gens get done quite quickly
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302445#Comment_3302445
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302551#Comment_3302551
You just explained how you were denied camping benefits. That's the point. You are arguing that getting free info about other survivors is not enough and you want more (trade on hook? Free hit? Earn it in chase instead).
You already need 2 people to go off gens and then 1 in chase and 2 people occupied by healing off unhook. So only single person doing gens. And that's unfair? Well getting downs for nothing is actually unfair. Earn your downs for a change.
I think what they mean is you can quite easily make a situation where the killer looses by defending the hook and that is not camping. The whole situation Inst that easy to resolve because if it where bhvr would have done something ages ago.
You want to weaken camping but you want to be sure that there is no way that what you do against camping is to strong because bhvr wants camping as a strategy to a certain degree and you don't want to make a situation where the killer basicly has to give an unhook because he should defend his hook.
It's quite difficult to find the right balance in this and that's why bhvr is acting very slow on this matter and the same goes for tunneling btw you don't want to make a situation where the killer needs to dance around the unhooked survivor because hitting them would only slow the killer down since he can't hook them without getting punished like many suggests in the forum
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Why are survivor perks often not as strong as killer perks? Simple you don't face four killers you face one. The killers perks are meant to be strong cause they can't be stacked. Survivor can stack perks its not a fight you fight alone just imagen if your load out would be strong so you can 1v2 the killer what happens when you gang up on the killer?
Some powers do what they do and there is no reason to argue about that. Sure legion finds you no matter how good you hide because otherwise the power would be useless. That gf knows that you look at him is simple a byproduct of the way how you cancel his power and that he logically has a way to fight you canceling him.
Killers can see what items survivors bring is because of balance right know the killer can decide to counter the four toolboxes or not. If he does and it's simple brown toolboxes he might lose cause he spend slots to counter something that doesn't needed to be. But when he decides to not counter them and they bring strong boxes with strong addons it could go down hillmsame applies to medkits. You could nerf them to the ground then there is no point in giving the killer that info
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@Bran said:
I cannot get behind these changes. They don't even highlight the reason tunnelling may occur or how to actually prevent it.
They didn't try to get behind it they are trying to prevent it by giving a bit more safety to the survivor and by trying to encourage the killer to not tunnel by giving him speed and BP for not doing it.
This is a method that could work even when it does not attack the actual reason for tunneling
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That actually doesn't sound bad and I as a killer would want these boni.
But lets be real killers that want to play fair and want this boni will do everything to not tunnel and survivor will quickly throw themself at them to slow them down. This will happen this is not some Ohh survivor are evil thing it will happen because if the boni are good enough to actually not tunnel survivor will see this as a chance to slow you down.
I showed this to two different people both having a 4man quad and both had that exact idea
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301815#Comment_3301815
Ok, thanks. I guess you are right on legion, but sometimes i wish i could be mending less time, but i guess he needs it, the ability to see blood was so he could track better in feral frenzy, since right now he doesn't se scratch marks or blood and i guess it kinda feets with the all feral frenzy motif. Trapper well i just think that basement trapper would be to strong if he had all traps from the beginning , like trapping an entire 3 gen or the killer shack and making situations really unpleasant, but honestly i just want him to not be able to trap all 3 exits from shack, either that or some other idea to nerf that playstyle, but someone might have better ideas. Maybe deactivate traps near hooked survivors and make so he can't place them near that hooked survivors?
I can completely understand that mending isn't very exciting but legion can't work otherwise. For hit and run you either need incredible speed like mach one or the survs need to get slowed down.
For trapper I can also understand why it's seems to strong when he traps shack but let's be real he has absolutely nothing else just traps he needs to be as oppressive with then as he can I guess
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@mischiefmanaged said:
I generally agree. I don't personally dodge or change my playstyle (well maybe a little since I'll assume basic mindgames don't work on them and skip those), but I know others do.
The killer already gets too much information in the pre-game lobby. They don't need the prestige level too. Save that for post-game.
What to much info do we get in your eyes?
We can see items and names wich can be blocked
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@daniel_owenz said:
As a person who mains killer, NOED and the perk that blocks the gate for a whole minute should be removed from the game, I'm not even asking for a nerf, just get rid of those participation trophy perks. You can honestly play the worst most trashiest killer in the game and these perks will give them free kills even if they haven't hooked anyone.
Noed - well you can definitely debate about that
Nwo - only blocks the gates if you hooked every survivor so it rewards not tunneling its a healthy design
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1. Trickster hat nicht unendlich Messer auch er muss am Schrank nachladen
2. Hat er keinen CD auf das werfen da er dich auch nicht verwundet mit nur einem Treffer
3. Er wird langsamer als der überlebende wenn er die Messer wirft.
4. Er hat genau wie alle range killer ein kleines windup Fenster das heisst er kann nicht sofort werfen wenn er die Taste drückt.
Es kann ziemlich hart werden wenn er campt ansonsten gilt für ihn das selbe wie für huntress und deathslinger.
Nicht einfach grade davon laufen.
Deckung suchen
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Yeah good idea no survivor ever would you that to take a hit knowing nothing can happen to them except the killer throwing the game and camp there body. What could go wrong?
Did you even tryed to think about it or are you just ugabuga killers bad
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If the survivor is really good at looping me great for them I respect that but don't you come into the chat after the game and complain that I don't go on a 5min round trip with you. If I see a survivor that is obviously better then me in chase I will just ignore them and hunt the others
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@Roaroftime said:
Yup developers really screwed up with that update, they destroyed the survivor meta which was to counter tunnelling and prolong chases, without that most survivors opt for a gen rushing build. But it was kind of killers moaning which caused the horrid update and now they still moan. And there also isn't really a survivor meta since we don't have many decent perks anymore, killers have a meta and games are boring because they bring the same perks every time even tho devs said they wanted to change the meta for both sides (they only nerfed it for survivors). I'm so sick of eruption, pain res, jolt, call of brine...
Survivors got the last meta destroying update so now it's time killers should get one...
How about we don't ping pong between I had to suffer no you get to suffer. The last years where very survivor heavy with stuff like old DH and CoH. Wasn't fun für killer now it'd not fun for survivor why don't we aim for a fun game for both sides instead of acting like the other side is some evil force that has to suffer for my sides fun
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@VideoGameMage said:
Probably to finally get the game over with. Personally unless the other survivor played stealthily all match (aka they haven't been hooked once and spent the entire match not taking aggro) I won't work with the killer to snitch out the other survivor. Never understood what people expect the other survivor to do when the killer is camping a slugged survivor to bait the other one out. Either hook me and take the chance for hatch, or spend 30 minutes trying to find the other survivor and secure your 4k.
Love that it's Okey to snitch on a survivor if he "didn't tokk aggro" im a terrible terrible looper if I take the aggro I hold it for like 5 sec I'm better of hiding cause that's what I am good at
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@kisfenkin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297125#Comment_3297125
Here's how it works from my perspective as survivor. I am the only person that has been hooked. Meg, who has bond, is being chased and leads the killer to my location. The killer drops her chase and chases me to tunnel me out.
Meg is working with the killer. It is a reportable violation of the rules and the evidence showing she has bond proves she knew exactly where all survivors are.
But it would "only" be her working with him and not necessarily the other way around. Got some very angry massages when I broke chase to go for a easier target when one survivor is bringing me there with bond. Not my fault and not me working with them if I could now beforehand they have bond I would not do it but I cant
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@THEFREAK420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296915#Comment_3296915
A pile of cope? What does that even mean? I have no problem owning it. I tunnel. I camp. Ill face camp with leatherface 20 seconds into a match. A smart group will go do gens. Maybe ill get bored and leave.
And I really couldnt care less if my Opponents like it, respect it, or hate it. Or anyone else for that matter. I play to win, not to entertain, amuse or ensure survivors have fun. And I will never follow made up, imaginary rules. Which is exactly what tunneling and camping are.
And that's why we need actually rules and mechanisms to prevent you
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Wiggle was never supposed to be a means to escape on your own. You are only supposed to wiggle free if you bring perks for it and your mates bring perks for it and take hits and sabo or when the killer trys to carry you for extended time.
Wiggle was only brought into the game so the killer can't carry you into the basement from everywhere on the map
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296556#Comment_3296556
Yeah you're probably right. It's such a shame because it's a cool concept to be able to choose from 4 killers and they are so popular. Cool music and skins. Awful design.
Yeah it's sad I love them and I love the rush you get from speeding around stabbing left and right but I know it's not necessary the most pleasant experience for the other side but I'm a Legion and plague main so survivor rarely like my picks
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@brokedownpalace said:
Just curious if that's something you'd like to do at some point or if you're content with them being absolutely miserable to play against.
I honestly think that's not possible.
What makes legion unfun for most survivor is the mending wich is necessary for legion cause hit and run needs some form of slowdown so if it's not mend it would be work speed decrease or what eruption does.
Another thing many people complain about is that you don't really have a chase with them because they leave after they hit you.
In the end there is no way to make them more fun to face then how they are right now and bhvr isn't a fan of a total rework after what they did to Freddy
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296415#Comment_3296415
You know there's a soft cap on MMR, right? After a point, at not that high a skill level, the matchmaking mostly just gives up and matches you with whoever. How do you think pro players easily get winstreaks that go into the dozens, or the hundreds? In most competitive games, the #1 player on the leaderboard, going all-out every match, can maybe manage a 60+% winrate over the course of that many matches. And if it's 90+%, they're probably cheating.
So no, being a player that the matchmaking system doesn't know what to do with doesn't give you the right to police other people for using a straightforward winning strategy that any good player is fully expecting to face. Tournament-level Killers will tell you, against Survivors at their skill level, they'd be doing their opponents a disservice if they refused to tunnel.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296423#Comment_3296423
I think tunneling should still be an option under some circumstances, unless you're looking to completely rework the hook system (e.g. Shared hooks across the entire team). Because regardless of how one may personally feel about it, tunneling creates a lot of opportunities for interaction between the Killer and Survivors. Tunneling changes how Survivors behave instead of just endlessly rotating between gens and taking turns on the hook. If a survivor on death hook is being chased, then suddenly the other Survivors have a reason to go for protection hits, pallet saves, flashlight saves, maneuvers that are often not worth your time otherwise. Suddenly a Prove Thyself user has a big opportunity to get value knowing the Killer will leave them alone.
Similar to how the Killer's behavior changes the more gens they lose.
Yeah I also think tunneling should be an option butthe devs need to do something about that hard tunneling. There are situations where tunneling is the right call and I think most survivor players would say this too but just tunneling out the first guy you see and even ignorering every opportunity to get a down on anyone else isn't good. It's sucks for the one being tunnels and till the tunnel is completet there not much for the other to do except gens. It's just not good for game health but I am pretty sure in the devs wor on it hard enough they will find a good working way so we can have both
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296394#Comment_3296394
If you can get away with not tunneling the first person out ASAP, you're not playing against Survivors at your skill level.
The Killer's objective is to kill. They will trend towards whatever strategy gets them kills the fastest. And the Survivor's objective is to survive. If they make mistakes, the natural consequence should be for them to die.
If you really want tunneling to stop that badly, you're gonna be looking at a pretty big overhaul of a lot of the game's core systems, especially the hook system, because when the Killer gets an unhook notification, they now know exactly where to find not one, but two survivors. And unless their Discordance just popped or they're already in another chase, the logical next step is to go back to the hook. And given that the Killer's objective is to kill, then unless they have a big incentive not to, they're gonna go for the survivor that's closer to dying.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296390#Comment_3296390
Oh, so my team should leave the bombsites undefended on purpose because that would be more "fair"? Wait for them to plant before making a single move?
People like you who feel the need to make up a million arbitrary rules for other people's conduct and chastise them for using basic strategy are easily among the most toxic players in the community, especially in endgame chats.
Just because the matchmaking system doesn't give you a fair fight doesn't mean you get to decide how everyone else should play the game.
That's why I say when they do something against extreme tunneling they need to buff the killers that actually the whole point of this post.
And you could give the killer a reason to don't attack the freshly unhooked player. Give a bonus for attacking the unhooker give a small regression to all gens for attacking them. Give the survivor gens speed boost for going after the unhooked of course not when they take a hit. You can go more and more extreme till it works on the end you could make the unhooked outright invisible for the killer not that I think that's a good idea just to show how far the devs could go
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296377#Comment_3296377
Nobody likes dying in CS:GO. Does that mean you shouldn't kill your opponents when you have the chance? Or perhaps you should buy a bad gun on purpose because that would be more "fair", and people who choose otherwise are just noobs?
If you can get away with making bad plays on purpose, game-throwing plays even, then that is a failure of the matchmaking system. A Killer who chooses to tunnel or camp at an opportune moment is no more dishonorable than a CS:GO player who throws a flashbang.
No one is talking about tunneling and camping in general even in my original post I say there are times where tunneling and camping is the right call. But tunneling the first person out asap or camping at 5 gens is not necessary and not good for the game and I even advocate for buffs to make up for it. I also think when the survs make a stupid play I should use this to win so a strategic tunnel or camp is good
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@VillainousTurtles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296010#Comment_3296010
I find camping to be fun.
Whoopsie, my bad, didnt mean to invalidate your entire premise.
We will probably find people who find it fun to watch paint dry and watch the grass grow. Doesn't make it a objectively fun activity and also it's not a single player game it's multi-player should be fun for everyone involved cause when it's good and fair design even losing is fun
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@VillainousTurtles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295677#Comment_3295677
Again, your personal emotions about valid ingame activity is your own issue, not the issue of the other team, and they dont need to change their playstyle based on your emotions.
It's not emotions it's a fact that you can't deny that camping is less interactive and less fun then chasing. Show me how this is based on emotions when one play literally just hangs there and can do nothing. How could that be as fun as having a chase or hide or do anything else.
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@VillainousTurtles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295231#Comment_3295231
Your attempt to justify people disregarding the devs rules for their own game, is again, not something I can take seriously. It sounds entitled and childish, which is probably why they arent changing their rules just because salty people melt down about getting camped.
You know what is funny? When I did this post I thought I would need to defend my opinion that killers would need buffs if camping and tunneling is fixed because that's what I advocate for.
I didn't think I need to argue with killer that don't want to lose a uninteractiv playstyle even when I want buffs for us killers to have a great time actually playing the game but no I sit here and get called a child by someone who thinks the best thing in gaming history is to stand in front of a survivor hanging on a hook waiting for a bar to get empty just to do it again
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@VillainousTurtles said:
Calling someone a troll because you disagree with them isnt something I can take seriously.
The devs have not said that camping and tunneling are bad for the game, they simply said that they are providing you more tools to fight this valid tactic.
Theyve already provided these tactics, and people continuing to ignore the devs rules and make up their own is just laughable.
Calling you a troll for putting words into my mouth to throw me into a pile is fair I think.
And I never said the don't want it to ever happen but they want it to happen less because they see its not good for the community.
These guys aren't some gods that can't be wrong they make the game they should sculpt it how they see fit but they also should here what there community has to say that's how stuff like that works because if you screw to much with your community you end up with a game exactly how you vision it but no players to play it it would not be the first dev team to find it out the hard way. And I actually think they to a semi good job even tho I there is space to improve
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@VillainousTurtles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295175#Comment_3295175
You believing that its bad for the game doesnt make it true, nor is that a valid excuse to call dev-approved tactics “toxic” because we all know that survivormains use that as justification to be toxic in return.
The reality here is that you accept the devs rules when you play their game, and that disregarding their rules to justify toxicity is childish. You can deny here that this is the intent if you want, but you arent fooling the devs.
I used the word toxic exactly once and then to describe 5 Gen face camping wich is probably the most unfun not playing the game thing you can do so don't you dare putting words in my mouth.
I don't sit here aww that's toxic stop it. I say it's not good for the games health and I'm not alone with that opinion. And guess what the devs also don't think it's good for the game and they are searching for a good solution so I think discussing this here is fair enough especially since I did this post to shed light in the fact it's not as simple as just making it impossible or making it a punishable offense because that is what the people want that just scream that's toxic around so go back under your bridge my friend
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@kisfenkin said:
I think you are the one that missed the point. You are afraid of the fee. That's the point of the fee! You don't want to incur the fee, so don't tunnel. Don't camp, or return to the hook, and you are unlikely to even see the unhooked survivor again until you have downed and hooked someone else or their tunnel timer has run out.
You did make me think of something else though. In the case of only two survivors left the punishment would have to be shut off as well. Don't want this idea to force killers to slug in the two survivor situation.
Okey now you confuse me. Don't camp OK don't tunnel OK. Don't come to the hook? That's stupid it's not camping nor tunneling to keep an eye on the hook to get the unhooker for a chase but guess what would happen then
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@VillainousTurtles said:
… or, people could just accept that valid tactics such as camping and tunneling are part of the game, and stop trying to whine their way into nerfs.
Or we people could just accept that being a valid and not forbidden tactic doesn't change the fact that it isn't good for the game. If bhvr would tomorrow decide to make it a valid allowed tactic to block a survivor in a corner all game would it make that a good thing for the game?
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@kisfenkin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295158#Comment_3295158
The punishment needs to be hefty or it would just be shrugged off by most killers. It would also need to be obvious to the killer to avoid accidentally incurring it. A timer next to the player icon or something.
Another thing I forgot to mention is to throw the entire idea out during EGC. If you are getting hooked two or three times in a row during EGC that is not tunneling.
Doesn't change my point.
I would have to waste time hitting a survivor up to three times with DH that trys to block me and I can't even hook him sounds kinda bad and let's be honest that's 200% what would happen cause of course survivor would try to use it to get every weapon swipe out of the killer they can
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@kisfenkin said:
Here is my idea I've been bringing up here in the forums for quite a while:
I think if tunneling were punished it would be enough to stop most players. By punished, I mean that if you hook the same person twice in a row to kill them, and there are other players still in game and alive, you get a -25% blood fee, that will be paid to the survivor you hooked twice in a row. If you kill one survivor by hooking them three times straight, you get a -50% fee, which again will be paid to the survivor you killed by tunneling. I think both of these should have a time limit to be considered tunneling and to prevent the survivors that have been hooked from trying to get in the way with a body block. Let's say one or two minutes. However long it would take to heal with self care and do one quarter of a gen seems reasonable.
Also, a player that is tunneled by those definitions will have a guaranteed safety pip, no more -1 simply because the killer is greedy.
Make the killers that refuse to play fair pay for it, and then at least some of them will think twice about ruining one player's game just to gain a huge advantage. Those that don't, well this will fix two of the most important issues that tunneling causes. Losing pips unfairly and not gaining any blood for your time in the match.
For my idea Moris would also have to count as hooking, but I don't think bleeding out would, especially since it would well outside the timer I mentioned.
I think you need to be very careful with stuff like that. I would not want a 25% bloodpoint lose and I imagine I'm not alone with that. So if we say that's how it is every survivor under the sun would know the killer don't want to lose that much points so you would need to deal with a very annoying survivor trying to block you and waste time hitting them
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The second you make it better and more likely so the machenik doesn't feel unnecessary from an escape point it would just get stupidly strong because other survivor could still body block and sabo. It was never meant to be a real way to escape especially not on your own. It's just to prevent basement hooks from everywhere
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@VillainousTurtles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294509#Comment_3294509
The game rules do not change based on someones negative feelings about the valid tactics used by the other team.
And I don't talk about changing any rules I talk about seeing what is not good fo a game and act accordingly. Would you say the same if it would be totally Okey from a rule stand point for survivor to hide without trying to do gens and just let the killer run around finding no one
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@VillainousTurtles said:
If camping and tunneling are dev approved activities, then the people attempting to turn these valid game tactics into “toxic activity” are in the wrong.
The concept of downloading a VS game, deciding that you disagree with the rules of the game, and then being toxic towards other players based on the rules you personally made up for the game, is fascinating to me.
But we can't deny that camping and tunneling are not good for the game health
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
So I actually wanted to ask 'are they scared' but just thinking about it, anyone arguing they are not is delusional
The last survivor perk that made any sort of impact on the meta is obviously Circle of Healing which was released on October 19th 2021, so more than a year ago.
Now let's look at what killer meta perks we got in since and also the perks that you can really see in your matches even if they aren't the most powerful ones
Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
Pentimento
Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage
Call of Brine
Merciless Storm
Dissolution
Darkness Revealed
Awakened Awareness (you can argue Superior Anatomy is good on some vault builds but I won't push it)
Nowhere to Hide
If we even go before Mikaela that same year we got Starstruck, Deadlock, Lethal Pursuer, Eruption, Plaything
When I play killer I am a little overwhelmed and really happy actually with how many cool new perks we have that work so well with a lot of killers, I really think that they have been doing amazing job with perks for killers for a while now, ever since Trickster we at least got one cool new perk that can be seen in your average matches
For Survivor though, it's really sad, even with the nerf to the meta people are still using older perks like adrenaline, windows of opportunity, prove thyself, kindred and of course, the exhaustion perks which are all old (like 1 in 1000 survivor is using overcome these days)
The way this situation is even worse is when you realize even if the new killer has ######### perks, they are still a new killer with a new power that can be used with older perks, while Survivors are left to use the same old stuff
I think one of the reasons survivor don't get as much flashy cool perks as killer is because you can't have perks for survivor that do to much because the devs always need to expect it gets brought four times a match and they also need to consider what happens when every one brings it and then they can coordinate cause they are swf
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@HugTheHag said:
I don't think something being left in the game, whether by negligence or because it's on the backburner, mechanically means the game is balanced around that. By that logic, everything untouched is by default currently balanced in this game... even the full BNP lobbies, COH + strongest medkits and addons, best addons/perks Nurse & Blight, biased maps, everything is already being balanced if not touched by the devs.
So, my opinion on this is that your argument is sound (if tunneling was completely removed as a possible strategy, like it became physically impossible to hook the same person twice, then there would need to be serious buffs to killer) but your logic is flawed.
Also, I'd much, much rather see reworks and QoL to individual killers than overall buffs that would not adress each killer's issues.
(Am I saying this after a few games of watching my zombies consistently go and hug each other into a corner ? Maybe...)
I am 200% with you when it comes to killer specific buffs rather then general killer buffs
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@Xendritch said:
I have to take issue with the idea that killers have no agency so they have to camp and tunnel for kills. If that's the case one of two things is happening you either got a bad map with terrible RNG which does happen and that sucks when you get suffo pit with 6 jungle gyms that all connect perfectly and the survivors know how to run them and you have a bad time.
But much more often I think is a second scenario where killers just don't go in with any sort of plan whatsoever and don't react to the map or the survivors builds in any way. A lot of killer will just slap on eruption/corrupt/call of brine/pain res because they know they're good perks but not really plan around them, like that build is strong because it's good at 3 genning which is more powerful than it's ever been right now. But killers will just go around kicking any gen they see and kinda not plan a 3 gen and whatever gens get done get done cuz they're not really paying attention then lose be like "######### these are the strongest perks and I still only 1k'd game must be impossible for killers". When like no they're just not playing smart and not using the build effectively.
Camping you say is a bad call most of the time so I'll just talk about tunneling real fast and is tunneling effective? Yes like it is an absolute fact tunneling when you can pull it off increases your chances of winning signifgantly. Do you have to do it to win? No not at all, sometimes it's the right call but a lot of the time if you're playing to the strength of your killer and your build you can usually pull off at least a 2k nearly every single time. Granted it's still smart to ping pong hooks between 2 survivors which technically isn't tunneling because nobody is being put on consecutive hooks.
One last thing I'll touch on is do the first 2/3 gens usually go pretty fast? Yeah usually but that doesn't really matter, gens are like a life total in card games it's just a resource and as long as you have 1 left you can still win. I have had so many games with 1 or 2 gens left and had only 2 hooks to that point and then snowball a 4k because they mess up a hook save or I make a good basement play or they get preoccupied with my hexes or I play Pig/Cenobite and they're focused on their side objectives or I start slugging for pressure. DBD is a game of momentum and if a killer is struggling with that outside of the maps like Cowshed and Eyrie then that's user error.
What you described about the perks is definitely happening very often. Killer hear build x is good and use it without knowing why and how it's good.
On you last point about gens. It's true that the game is only lost when it's over and I also won games where only one Gen was left. But and that is solely my view on this when I win those games I do it because they screw up most of the time not because I did good or I pulled a good move.
And I don't think it has to be that way. If tunneling and camping would not be as good as they are it we would not need the survivor to be so effective and gens going so fast. For me it's also a psychological component. Sure for a seasoned veteran with 1k or even just 500 hrs it's not a big deal they know there killer they know the map they have no problem to 4k a game where three gens pop on first hook but I think for the average player it's a bit much.
In the end its over half the survivors objective. If a killer would have 6 hooks by the time hthe first gen pops that would be massive amount of stress for them too
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@Sonzaishinai said:
The problem with camping and tunneling isn't that they exist but how effective they are
The difference between 4 survivors and 3 survivors is just way to big. I'm still thibk that adding some kind of "desperation" repair speed bonus as soon as a survivor has died would be a good solution for this.
Not enough to completely offset it but enough so that a 3v1 isn't completely hopeless. Making it so that the ideal strategy is having 2 survivors on deadhook and then taking them out with a 1 2 punch would help a lot with tunneling without asking killers to go for 12 hooks every game
Camping i feel is more killerspecific. A m1 killer camping usually isn't that big of a deal and are easy to trade with. That said i do think the hooktimers could increase a bit to offset the increase in gen times.
Also wish more people knew the counter to deadlock by leaving one gen 99% so it keeps hitting that one. That perk is given way much more power then it actually has for campers
I think you didn't really understood what I said. I said it's to strong but the point of my post was to talk about that as it is right now it is part of the balance since bhvr did nothing against it for so long.
If we would pick up your idea wich I want to point out isn't a bad one we certainly would lessen the effectiveness of tunneling but then the problem I mentioned would arise
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@HugTechLover said:
*laughs in blight*
Blight is certainly strong enough and that's kinda what I mean. Survivor would need to accept that every killer would need to come to blight level wich isn't even possible since what makes blight good is his speed but trapper or pig or hag won't suddenly start speeding
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Teaming is forbidden. That's it nothing more to discuss. Slugging for the 4k is allowed hiding on that situation is allowed there is absolutely nothing to discuss here. If the killer somehow has found a way to actually break the bleed out mechanic you should record and report that because that is an exploit.
On another note cause it fits in here. If a survivor is snitching on a other survivor because "they don't do enough" you the killer should always kill the snitch. If you let the other one go or not is not important but you should always kill the snitch so it can't be seen as you working with them
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I mean you are right Billy is great but you very fist sentence is not necessarily true.
I enjoy a good chase but what gives me much more joy is legions hit and run style. Running around stabbing left and right and trying to get that sweet sweet fifth stab. On the same level of enjoyment is super stealth Ghostface. Come as near as possible get the stalk and hit then before they can react no chases at all.
Both types don't have don't involve the classic chase but again I also enjoy a good chase and Billy is a good fun killer bhvr should take as an example for there other classic chase killers
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/357719/super-boring-killers-during-the-event
A few things:
- Games with multiple DCs...yeah. Get them done ASAP - although it's a lose/lose for killers. Wipe everyone out ASAP? 'omG swEAtLord gieV us a ccHance'. Give everyone chance to recover? 'OMg TROLL just END'.
- Focusing one person out of the game ASAP is, sadly, how killer works. Try to 2 hook everyone? You're going to get destroyed and teabagged all the way to the gate.
That all said - yes, there are still campers, sluggers and the rest. But slugging is going to be changed soon, and it's never been less rewarding to tunnel or camp than it is now.
This. I stopped to play nice and care about there fun long ago because of that. I tryed to not tunnel and I still to this day don't proxy around just to tunnel but if I see you and a healthy survivor I will hunt you cause you are easier down and you already have a hook state. It doesn't matter how good I got with playing killer since there are atleast two gens done after first chase most of the time three. That's half the survivors objective. If there where two survivors dead by the time one Gen is done survivor would say the killer is eqay way to strong but somehow its Okey for them to make half there objektiv and put a ton of pressure on the killer and then demand he should play as fair as possible and entertain them