Spectralfx
Spectralfx
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409120#Comment_3409120
I mean, as much as I dislike her visual design and backstory, I still think that the core idea of using flying drones to create unique interactions can be a cool.
I just wish they were more like those flying drone guardians from Zelda: Breath of the Wild. Imagine a drone flying around the map, either Nemesis' zombie style or Knight's "create-a-path" style, where if they lock on to you after staying in their detection zone for too long, they start shooting projectiles that survivors have to dodge for a short time or else get injured. And every match with Skull Merchant spawns a few piles of stones or trash cans around the map that survivors can rummage through to get a rock or bottle (some kind of special killer item like Sadako's tapes), to throw at the drone to stun it or distract it.
I don't think that alone would be enough for a killer, the killer herself would probably need a secondary power, but doesn't that sound like a killer concept incorporating flying drones that doesn't suck ass?
Hell yeah!
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I think Gearhead should have a noise indicator for the Aura Reading similar to that of Alert; since it's effect is duration based, it can be difficult to tell when exactly it's effect is proc'ing, which makes getting the information you need a bit tricky sometimes.
Maybe you can provide some on-screen indicators for both so those with hearing impairments can use either perk better.
On top of that, having used it today...
If the gen's aura is between you and the survivor... you may not even be able to see them!
Make the gen turn yellow or something.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409334#Comment_3409334
What's wrong with that? Passive deterrence is fine
What you call "passive deterrence" actually is "crap if they have DH rn and they deny me that 1st down I lose"
So no, it's not fine.
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True.
I report this on my end as well.
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@HeyItsQuiet said:
Players who took issue with the healing nerfs were met with "MAD CUZ BAD, JUST ADAPT, LOL DONT USE CRUTCH PERKS" and were accused of being entitled survivor mains.
So it sounds like killer mains just need to adapt to gen rushing, which is the only viable option to be successful in a match as survivor right now. Abusive killer plays are out of control now that they know nobody can reasonably self-heal. Flashlights received another nerf and are near useless, as are med kits. What else are survivors supposed to do but gens?
I would agree except that, under the pre-tense that Nurse and Blight were OP... the devs made the map bigger and added a bunch of pallets.
Everytimes M1 killers tried to adapt it got hard nerfed, they even destroyed Hill Billy.
Currently, Survivors have a pletora of viable exhaustion perks that makes them faster than an M1 killer to the point they get to hold W across the map ... there is still no room for them to complain.
What survivors call oppressive right now is their inability to do the "Bully squad with 4 flaslights and CoH" strat in which they could just party around the killer endlessly knowing full well that DH would provide an extra health state and SB effect if they screwed up...
So cry me a river.
Currently, what fuels all the camping and tunneling is precisely the fact that most killers can't afford a chase now that ALL methods of regressing gens have been nerfed into oblivion.
Never in the history of this game has an entire tool been dulled like that for any side.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/373458/nerfed-healing-has-really-ruined-dbd
I agree that tunneling and camping is horrible rn, but the main changes regarding healing I'd like are hemorhage to only work while running and healing speeds to not be reduced past 35 percent of normal healing speed.
Ontop of that STBFL is getting out of hand now dead hard doesn't exist... 6.1.0's base chase changes are horrendous for non exhaustion users even now, unless you play the map perfectly.
I feel I agree with the statement it should be a tactic but it needs more tuning to make it riskier to do, like increased hook times/no hook grabs/perks like stbfl and powers not working near hook, anything.
I would say that tunneling was and remain prevalent because of current gen times... a killer can ill afford to let 4 survivors roam free until end game.
Currently... after 1 down it isn't uncommon to see 2 gen pop and after the second down... 2 more.
Now you don't to be a math genius to know that 2 down for 4 gens isn't great for killer.
Tunneling/camping may not be fun on the receiving end but really... it's just a method for killer to "force" survivors off gens somehow.
Until killer gets 2 simultaneous down... there is no hope for victory and even after that it's very dicey still if survivors brought BNP and prove thyself.
Those strat were part of the game since the beginning and people just need to learn the counter plays/perks to it.
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@wisdomwielder said:
Alright, we've nerfed Nurse, we've nerfed the 3-gen perks, and we've nerfed Dead Hard, but now the next thing on the chopping block should definitely be Blight. Here, I'll address what's wrong with him and suggest some fair changes that could balance him out. (Disclosure: I do not think hug tech or any other techs that you can do with him should be removed. They are a part of what makes Blight fun and skillful and should not be taken away)
The most egregious thing is his addons, like... this man has AT LEAST 5 or 6 addons that many will consider overpowered or straight up broken. These are Compound 33, Alchemist's Ring, Adrenaline Vial, Compound 21, and Blighted Crow + Rat (Combo).
Compound 33 - Just. WHAT. The pallet break speed is INSANE. Combined with the hindered effect, pallets might as just not exist. Remove the pallet break effect or just make it do something else.
Alchemist's Ring - Broken AF. Needs to do something else. We gave Nurse a mangled add-on so maybe that.
Adrenaline Vial - The buff it received a while back was uncalled for. Should be nerfed again. This addon is basically Alch Ring lite. Any addon that lets Blight catch up almost instantly after getting a hit should not exist.
Compound 21 - The aura reading is too good. Combined with Lethal Pursuer, this addon basically gives you permanent wallhacks. Should shorten the aura reading to like, 1 second and make this an iri addon.
Blighted Crow + Rat - I know this is like the staple add-on combination for Blight mains and comp players everywhere, but I think it's too good. The mobility it gives him basically lets him be wherever he wants whenever he wants. At higher speeds, it also allows him to outplay survivors at many loops he otherwise would not be able to deal with as easily. It also makes reacting to him much harder. I suggest that both addons should be nerfed to where the combo is equal to the speed that the Crow gives you now. i.e. Rat should be +2% and Crow should be +4%. That way, people who just liked playing with Crow and got used to that speed can still play without issue.
Basekit Changes:
For the most part, I think his basekit is fine (including all of his techs), but one thing I would like to see is maybe adding a conditional where if he gets stunned for any reason, he loses all his rush tokens. I would also like to see something similar added to Nurse. This way, similar to Plague, it gives these powerful killers some sort of rewarding counter play that anyone can do. It will also give people a reason to run Decisive Strike again (which should be increased to 4 seconds stun time). This way, the perk wont be useless against these specific killers who can catch up almost instantly. Losing all their power tokens would be very fair in any stun situation, and give people being tunneled a chance to get away to a safer area and buy some additional time.
While we're here, perk:
Dragon's Grip: Uhhh.. why does this perk still have 3 cooldowns? Remove, like, one of them at least. Thanks.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
I support most of this.
The compound 21 complaint feels out of place with how prevalent anti-aura perks are right now (as it should be).
I do not think that one should be changed.
I also despise the basekit idea, getting stunned is punishement enough, no need to add to it.
Some addons are clearly OP and most ideas here are pretty solid.
Hopefully, with a Blight nerf we could nerf gen times, map size and pallet counts so M1 killers get back into the game.
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@1ettuce said:
A little while ago I made a post going over DH's problems and the solution to said problems, which is linked here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/368628/the-only-change-that-dead-hard-needs
Although DH is now in a better spot balance wise, the biggest problems with it are really still there. So as an alternative to the change that was made, I wanted to very briefly summarize the solution and points mentioned in that post as to make them more digestible, since the original post is very very long.
DH's problems (at least before 6.7.0) were the following:
- DH at pallets is unreasonably hard to counter compared to how much skill it takes for the survivor.
- DH against powers is often uncounterable, as killers like huntress, demogorgon, nurse, etc cannot simply wait out DH due to the nature of their power. This is especially bad for knight and nemesis, who's guards and zombies will hit into a survivor with DH with no hesitation
- Sometimes the killer is forced to lunge around loops, which DH obviously completely negates, forcing the killer to either eat a DH or a stun/vault
Despite what is often said, having to wait out dh or "denying a down" are not problems whatsoever. The time taken to wait out dh is massively insignificant especially compared to that of other exhaustion perks, and complaining about dh making it so you don't go down when you were gonna go down...well that's just complaining about the perk doing something isn't it?
Anyways, there is a simple change that I think would solve these problems pretty effectively. This being changing DH so that an unsuccessful usage puts the survivor into the dying state. From what I've heard this apparently sounds like a pretty extreme nerf, but let me cook. This would hardly change anything about the situations where the killer has to wait out DH, as you already immediately down a survivor after they miss a DH as it is. Where this nerf would really shine is the previously mentioned situations, since you could miss either a lunge or power attack on purpose to bait out the survivor's DH, where as doing such right now offers basically no advantage. Along with this, zombies and guards shouldn't hit survivors while they DH, because that's just obvious.
Perhaps DH is fine now as it is, but I had still wished the nerf addressed the real problems with the perk. It may not be necessary but I find it preferable.
Also fix the damn perk, please! So many times I dh a basic attack and it legit just doesn't work.
I like how the perk is right now.
Today, I've had a player use it against me exactly once at a critical moment that turned what would have been a 3K into a 2K and it felt fair.
The issues were the pick rate and its impact on early game... you had to treat every survivors like they had it...
Which was unacceptable.
What is refreshing now is that you see a mix of exhaustion perks instead of the previous "4 DH auto-include" composition.
I'd leave it be.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409306#Comment_3409306
MMR hasn't been the solution since it was put into DBD.
Its has good has its gonna get. Sorry but that's all there is.
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@wisdomwielder said:
I agree. People who want to play seriously and people who want to get their tomes done and go for power-struggle plays should be separated. All you have to do is disable challenges, dailies, etc. in ranked mode for it to no longer be a problem. The bonus to be gained from this will be less complaining about people sweating or not trying, because there will be space for that. No one in comp complains about sweat because sweating is expected. If everyone shares the same expectations, then the salt will decrease.
the issue with that is that people would complain that sweaty people play in the casual mode while the toxicity would go through the roof as newer playing try to play rank.
I've played other competitive games that uses that method and trust me when I say it is not the solution you are looking for.
MMR is.
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Honestly, from an M1 killer's perspective and even to an extent, the Oni...
Gen times are way too low for anything to happen.
all there is left "unnerfed" in the killer's toolbox is meme-worthy bad and all survivor have to do for an easy win is slam gens with BNP and Prove thyself.
0 fun.
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@liamdicaprio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408989#Comment_3408989
again its all about knowledge and there is way to bait out a dh, good survivors enjoy ''outplaying'' a killer with a second chance perk since it gives such a high reward. now the way survivors run, the way the take the chase and how they loop you is enough to determine if a survivor has dh and to be extra secure you wont get shat on by ''luck'' just wait an extra second sooner or later they are going to use it, if you go swinging ofc they are use dh since its the way the perk is supposed to be used. but if you get close even on a pallet where they dont have distance for an extra loop you can easely counter a dh.
Waiting is not baiting.
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but homestly,
Iridescent stuff is either bonkers good (almost an assured free win) or absolutely miserable.
Doing away with them would be a good change.
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This killer is poorly designed.
It has access to a lot of information it cannot act upon.
Like, SM looks at PAD: "Ah yes, y'all healing at that CoH boon, shame I have to baby sit this gen!"
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@Spill said:
It's been absolutely miserable to play survivor because healing was nerfed because no buffer was implemented for lazy killer strats like camping and tunneling. These lazy, pathetic strats have always been irregularly strong compared to killer's who actually TRY. (Praise to the big brain Macro killers out there ) And now these pathetic strats are a million times stronger.
How has your game been out for SEVEN goddamn years and these LAZY killer strats REAP MASIVE rewards, SWING games, and force the survivors to a play A MILLION times more efficient all because a killer wants to stand still.
NO ONE is asking for camping and tunneling to be stopped completely.
INCREASE the goddamn risk and lower the reward. It's that simple.
how about you use a partner to help heal or use a syringe? those still works very good.
but of course, people in solo queue plays like they were alone in the world so they fail to realize that what was nerf ... in fact... is the ability to self-heal because it was too good.
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@VaporLion said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5PYIZCALCN5J/3gen.jpg
Gens are too close to each other and to easy to defend. Especially because around (2) is a massive deadzone, no windows and (3) has one pallet and no windows either. (1) is able to be contested with balanced landing and because it has access to shack but thats not enough to contest the 3 gen as a whole. (1) is the weakest gen for survivors anyway, because the killer keeps going there.
This RNG-based layout is an auto-loss in soloQ but even a swf would probably only be able to contest this if they are very good at the game.
just tap the gens, good survivors do it to me all the time.
It's a winnable setup thanks to the gen on top of the structure, you have the safest ways out in the world it.
Just vault the ramp or flee towards the side of the map that has the structure.
Of course, if you have no pallets by the other gens by then ... that's a misplay and its on your team.
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@liamdicaprio said:
most of us prob know that dead hard went extinct since the last patch. now what i dont get is that dh has one of the most powerful counters of all time and can be explained in 3 simple words... WAIT IT OUT, the only thing you need to do as a killer is to have some patience, now not only do you get a kill you also learn more about playing as a killer.
if you are complaining about dh you are prob not that good at the game and heres why. if you are a good survivor main and knows how to play dh really skillfull you can pull many dh in a single game, but if your not a skillful surv. chances are you are not going to pull it off cause you dont know how to bait/time it right a dh if you are in a dead zone as an example. i would argue that dh has prob the biggest learning curve in the game and that is a perk that actually shows of your skill, how good you can read the killers thaughts and next move. but again at some point you use your dh even if you faked it 11 times and if you as killer have patience you can get an easy down, now back to the present not being able to have dh at the start of the trial is just dumb, and to restrict it to 2 times 70% of the times you dont even pull it off, you see people have learnt the biggest outplaying to dh is wait it out, so they still do even after the patch, i think its dumb and ofc sb also has a learning curve but not nearly ass hard to learn as dh.
now after you read this essay about dead hard i would appreciate your thaughts of what i just wrote.
ik now my english is not the best but if you are wondering about anything just respond and ill try to make it clearer:D
Don't bring DH back, its the worst perk in the game in terms of fun factor for killers and its a crutch for bad survivors.
that nerf NEEDS to stay, I am sick and tired of having to do a "little dance" while I wait to see if EVERY SINGLE survivor have DH while they run me around the map even when they don't have it.
The pick rate for that perk was through the roof because it was OP, don't EVER bring it back, just let it die, like, very hard.
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@ShroudedGhostFace said:
Nah I get such a massive ego boost when I win against multiple BNPs. Especially if it was a SWF.
Besides, why do we want to try to take everything strong away from survivors? Let them keep their BNP and let me continue to tunnel.
Imagine tho, tunneling them without them having BNP to counter act with?
that would be fun for once.
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The thing with "hit and run" imo is not that its not a choice, its "a necessity"
a Team with BNP and Prove thyself will gen rush you so fast nowadays that commiting to a chase is just something that you cannot afford to do anymore.
we used to be able to commit in early game if we suspected a solo on a gen, but kicking it with Overcharge and CoB but now that's gone... or mostly gone anyways.
Excluding killers that have that part of their design (Stealth killers, Oni and such) I would say that currently, now you are not going to do much against a good SWF the way the game is balanced... you might as well gear up some anti-information perks and try your luck if you get some randos.
honestly, they nerf killers so bad these days that the DH and CoH nerfs barely helped against competent survivors... but the funny thing is that you now see which survivors / content creators where using those perks as a crutch lol
In the end I would say that Hit and run, to me, is fun because the current map are just too big and have way too many safe pallets litered all over. but that's just my opinion.
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That perk was a crutch, if your "gaming experience" is ruined by a balancing act... that's just funny to me.
right now survivors still have plenties of powerful options to chose from, killers in higher mmr still get absolutely destroyed by survivors without it and that's should signal something that a survivor perks was at 35% pick rate ... when the next most picked killer perk was just 11%. It shouldn't justify the devs having to keep ruining the experience of killers to make up for it.
in fact, what ruins my experience right now as killer is the fact that they nerfed Overcharge and CoB as a slap on the face of all killers.
Last patch killers all around were reeling from a series of major nerfs beyond this world, even HillBilly (used to be very popular but now barely played anymore by the community) and now, we still get nerfed on top of all that!
you nerf like 2 perks from survivors and they cry like they lost a love one or something... just no.
Go play Hillbilly then you'll know what a "ruined gaming experience" feels like.
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@indica420 said:
Bring back boon circle of healing, not this crap you have, right now. Also, it's extremely killer sided.
I disagree, CoH is what cause so many stalemate in 3 gen situation, it drags out the games has it offers survivors a loop to run very easily in mid to end game.
The game isn't killer sided, survivors just not used to have their kit nerfed in any way shape of form has its always killers getting nerfed.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408229#Comment_3408229
The 3 gen developed in popularity in Nov 2022 after a popular Coconuts video, and it developed following the 6.1 Eruption buff. It had nothing right do with DH and COH. It was because slowdown perks at the time created a perfect storm where killers didn't need to chase. There's a reason it was called the kick meta. It's funny that said slowdown perks recieved nerfs that made them no longer effective at holding a 3 gen stalemate, but your conclusion is that two survivor perks that have been in the game for years were responsible
it didn't originate from DH or CoH... but these were the perks that allowed the survivors to force a stalemate on it.
effectively causing the game to never end even when survivor should have lost long ago.
right now, either side wins in a timeframe that makes sense thanks to the combination of nerfs but imo its mainly the nerf to survivors that fixed it.
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@RavenBirb said:
Her update to make her stuff "feel more useful in a chase" did nothing. She's the most aggravating killer to play around with. In general just in my opinion walking killers in this game with no teleport are no fun whatsoever, unless you just feel like holding down w going in circles
I disagree.
Skull merchant is actually underpowered, she has 0 mobility bonus and any exhaution perk a survivor can have actually means auto-break from chase.
This can loop on forever and this is why people still complain. It's not that she is "too good", its the opposite... she's so bad that chasing means insta losing so killers don't chase.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407604#Comment_3407604
The CoH nerf is not what killed the 3 gen meta lol.
It was the nerfs to COB and OC, they were the core of that meta and those perks suck now (as it should be)
I disagree.
right now those perks still work. They are less effective but they still allow to win matches.
The fact that they nerfed DH and CoH is what broke the stalemate.
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The quality of teamates is out of control for the following people: You, the devs and to an extent, said teamates (a noob is a noob after all).
There is one thing that is in your control however: Playing with people you trust to be good partners or not.
It's up to you, period.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374538#Comment_3374538
The game used to be MUCH harder on killers years ago. But nobody ever needed to camp 3gen from the start. As a matter of fact - if somebody did that - it was same as hitting "I give up" button. Because there was no way to stall the game indefinitely. But there were no strong regression perks that needed to just kick a gen and there were no killer abilities that helped regression even more.
The point is - you are totally wrong. This tactics was never feasible before 6.1 - and that is the only reason why it's being done so much now as never before. I am willing to bet everything that outside of memeing (meaning much less then 5% of all games - no matter which killer), nobody would guard his 3gen from the start of the game should this be a loosing tactics the same way as it worked before the patch. Right now it's rare to see SM that doesn't 3gen from the start.
The fact is we live in the present.
None of what you wrote invalidate any of my arguments.
This patch actually proved me right.
By nerfing DH and CoH, 3 gen meta went away.
The gen kick builds still works if you wish to play like that... albeit it's less effective due to nerf.
What makes killer able to play other builds now is the absence of a meme perk (DH) that was so strong it had a 35% pick rate. Also to consider the nerf to CoH that breaks the ability of survivors to induce endless stalemates.
For reference, killer's most picked perks had around 11% (lethal pursuer and the CoB/overcharge)
if you think I'm wrong, dream on.
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I'm a killer main and I agree that op's reworked DH ideas could work. But there is a caveat to this.
For example, some minor nerfs to the survivor's tool kit in other areas... but also some straight up buffs for killers in certain areas that were previously destroyed for no valid reasons (Hill Billy! Look at what they did to my boi! Legion, trapper and pig!)
Ultimately, 35% pick rate for DH was unreasonable. DH and CoH HAD TO GO.
But yeah, rework DH all you want! But if survivors start to auto-include it then no... nerf it then.
CoH... hell nah, get that out in the forever box stat.
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Let's petition to delete that map.
It's soooo borked
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@Madimews said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404932#Comment_3404932
Its a patch designed to please low skill killers who play alot. Its why high skilled players who actually have learnt the game and want a challenge are leaving. Look at people like Dowsey who used to be a fog whisperer. I mean people like Spookyloopz and SooknJukes are saying the patch is bad and too killer sided. But I guess they are not skilled enough to know, just the killer mains in this forum.
Spookyloopz isn't so spooky without DH to save his ass hey?
Otz seems okay.
You don't watch killer main content and it shows.
It just a meta shift, now it's better to rush gens.
ACTUAL good survivors are doing fine, but some content creators need the click bait money kid
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How to tell someone never played killer:
"QQ I claim to have played 3 games as killer the other day, killed everyone and now I know everything: nerf killer"
Cry me a river.
At low MMR killer is easy, because survivors are BAD at that tier. Real survivors are doing fine right now, me included (I'm a killer main, but I run SB on meg as a gen jockey with BNP)
They relied on DH (35% pickrate) and CoH as crutches for their bold misplays in early games, now that its gone their weakness shows.
Good survivors flourish right now. Working on a gen while hurt as never been this good as killer gen pressure is GONE.
BUT WAIT... DH is only working in mid to late game... yikes... better go cry on the forum that this one exhaution perk that still works the same in later stages of the game makes it killer sided!
Every single killer meta perk as been nerfed for the past years or so...
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM PERKS, latest killer meta perk to get hit had 11% pick rate or so... and it got a bad rep because Knight and Skull merchant were defensive killers.
Therefore, considering their previous pick rates, DH and CoH needs to remain dead PERIOD
Its time survivors get a "meta shake up" that lasts for ONCE.
While I'm here, FIX LEGION, they can't vault some pallets on some maps still (while in frenzy)... I bet you that if survivors couldn't vault a single pallet ANYWHERE it would get fix in record times... sadly, this has and will always be survivor biaised... it okay, they have the numbers to pay the bill...
But please... don't let the BAD survivors run the show... that's been like that for too long already!
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Yooooo
Maps are either... like... the size of the continent of Africa, have 1 million pallets per square inch... or both.
Maps needs to be SMALLER
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@Billbryant said:
I play both killer and survivor and the new update is unfair... Survivors Don't stand a chance at all especially with the dead hard nerf! I keep having games where i have hooked everyone on second hook and the survivors haven't been able to do 2 gens and games are too quick and struggle to rank up mainly on survivor!!
Not to mention the medkit nerf.. Its hard enough trying to play as a team but 90% of the time people play solo because they can't heal themselves to save the team at all/killer is camping the hook for easy downs and wins. Again leading to quick games and no rank up with loss of pips!!!
As a killer and survivor main i want dead hard returned back to how it was as it at least gave the survivors a chance instead of getting off hook to only use dead hard once and be out of the game. Its unfair on survivors as i am having quick easy games as killer, like i Don't have to try and i win. Dead hard was good before the nerf because it gave me that challange as well gave survivors a chance to escape and have a chance if they get tunneled.
I can understand wanting survivors to work as a team but the medkit, selfcare and dead hard nerf makes it hard. First off if a killer camps the hook and you are injured there is no defense to try save that survivor... You can only use dead hard once so renders the perk useless if you have a camping and tunneling killer. Plus medkit penalty for self heal and healing taking longer makes it almost impossible to save a team memer without instantly going down after unhook, or survivor going to second phase or even death hook yet they were hooked only once!!!!
Personally i would be happy if dead hard was changed back, medkits had self heal efficiency removed and healing speed was back to how it was. At least then it would give survivors better odds to survive against tunneling and camping killer and make the game enjoyable again. Plus would actually bring back a challange when i play as killer instead of quick easy games and easy kills!!!
Hopefully this helps explain my frustration when playing killer and survivor!!
I disagree.
As killer Oni main (survivor I run gen jockey builds) at mid to high tier I get a lot more 2k games that are very hard fought for both sides.
I feel this patch utterly crippled gen pressure for killers and somewhat crippled the ability for survivors to heal quickly (injectors tho? Hello? Those are still op as hell lol).
Gen times are now VERY LOW and has a competent team can just focus gens without healing very effectively.
Of course, at lower mmr I feel like, without DH, noobs that were using it as a crutch for their overly bold EARLY plays get punished hard... but that is AS IT SHOULD BE.
I still see some very clutch DH plays mid-late games on my end and more importantly...
I finally see DIVERSITY in the survivor's perk pool!
That update is a step in the right direction to me!
Don't let the less experienced survivors at low mmr dictate what is good after a few games they played to confirm their biais.
Low tier is easy for killers by virtue of solo queue players being ... well... solo and inexperienced (they don't play as a team)
What I like right now is that "meme builds" are finally able to pull their weight in a game and it's a good meta shake up that was impossible over the oppressive pick rate DH had.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375022#Comment_3375022
True but, remember this is solo queue usually, so that coordination of a SWF is just nonexistent
you heard of streamers right? they are all over the place lol.
at a certain MMR these are most of your matches as killer.
I'd concur if the discussion was about the survivor that goes in as killer at low mmr for 2-3 matches to "witness how easy it is" but in fact, dedicated killer mains play most of their matches vs a multiple time prestiged group of survivors with comms and meta perks.
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@SaltiestChip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374724#Comment_3374724
One sides fun is derived from the other, sadly. And while I generally do agree that survivors individually seem to be REALLY powerful right now, I think what makes it feel extremely unfair for us killer mains is that there are 4 of them that all feel that way to go against. It is kind of by design that the survivors are going to feel really overpowered in a lot of ways to go against since like I said, there are 4 of them, and only one of us.
I'm a fairly new killer main so I get the frustration. I absolutely despise the new map. I despise getting gen rushed and I despise the toxicity that I receive just for playing the role that I chose to queue up as.
But right now I think that the developers are trying to push the game into an objective focused game harder than ever before. The focus has shifted to either rushing the gens or stalling them out. As killers we have gotten some pretty decent stuff in terms of gen slow down and being able to defend a 3 gen for end game. Call of Brine and Eruption are *Chefs kiss* REAL NICE when you need to keep control over 3 gens. The game is just less and less focused on chase and it shows.
The developers keep giving survivors ways to rush gens and stay alive, so in return we get ways to slow down gens. As much as it sucks to admit, Skull Merchant really hit that final nail into the coffin for this game being about gen rush/slow down. So we either adhere to the meta at high MMR, or we hope for the game of knuckle head survivors that allows us to relax a bit. Either way, its all in the slow growth of game with a meta.
The game IS unbalanced, and both sides sway way up and way down constantly. That month of fun that you are feeling was living through a stage of overcorrection in which everyone had to find new ways to be able to optimally sweat the game. It was a time of experimentation, and because we aren't the ones needing to experiment it was a lot easier for us to have fun. But now that it is on the sway back to the other side, our job has gotten hard again. its the ebb and flow of trying to balance an asymmetrical game. Both sides CANT be equal by necessity because then that would demolish the core reason the game is fun.
Killers are supposed to feel empowering to play, but when the game doesn't go our way or the survivors have too many resources, we feel like we've been cheated from feeling that power trip. Survivors are supposed to feel like they have to face great adversity to win, and if the killers have too many resources then it feels incredibly oppressive to play against.
I think the final thing Ill say is that this game just seems like its really hard to balance and makes sure both sides are having fun at the same time. And its probably going to continue to sway back and forth because if you nerf/buff one side then the other side gets nerfed/buffed just for being on the opposite side of the swaying pendulum.
It's refreshing to read a well thought out comment like yours,
it's a change from the obvious "pro-survivor, pro-killer" argument we usually have in this forum, I will do my best to emulate that in my future comments because I feel it will be healthier to do so moving on.
having played a lot of survivor lately I feel like the core issue remains solo-Q vs SWF, those two modes are so different and impossible to balance.
In a world where survivors are disorganized and just overall... detrimental to one another (DCing early, taking a chase to the worst possible spots etc.), it is easy for them to cry foul play and oppression on killer's part... but as a killer main when I see those solo Q games and I know what's up and temper my expectation from it.
in short, I feel like losing on the survivors side is often not so much dependent on my own individual performance so it doesn't feels as bad losing, if that make any sense?
but the flip side of that on killer is that when all 4 survivors you are facing are well organized on comms and semi-competent on loops (some maps are just cringe to look at, you can get looped forever through safe windows on Lampkin lane for example, and its absolutely free for survivors)... it feels like the killer is just a bystander stuck in the match having to witness all the "sick tricks" survivors can and will do.
In short, this is why I feel killer has it harder in the end, at no point does survivors feel "completely powerless", they can still "do good" and get some good BPs out of their performance regardless of match outcome, but as killer, the worst end of the spectrum is getting "milked" unless you go AFK in a corner or DC (and take in the penalty) indefinetely.
Survivors can always "turn themselves" in if they are tired of a game, a killer is actually taken hostage until the survivors do the last gen... that's an issue.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374656#Comment_3374656
"Forever" yeah but I'm not talking about in a chase, I mean on a gen
Because then it becomes disable the drone even tho she will be able to place it back immediately, or ignore it and face exposed
I mean of course, if the survivor she walks back to just sprint burst/dead hard away, the killer isn't going to lose the game by chasing.
the killer will reset and then, if the survivor want be extra safe, they will heal up or wait for the exhaustion perk to reset and try again, hence the forever loop.
what is crazy right now is that with Circle of healing in play, I rarely see confidence in most survivors, the good ones just three man one of the three gen and do it right in the face of the killer knowing there is nothing such a weak killer can do to stop them and they get out.
it's sad to see that the current state of affair is brought by a bunch of survivor unable to work together just sitting in a corner of the map and crying that a B-tier or less killer is OP just because she gets a notification on her phone that they are tempering with a gen...
outside of that it's an M1 killer! for real!
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@SaltiestChip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374687#Comment_3374687
I think that there are valid criticisms and complaints to be made about both sides of the isle right now. Complaining about one side being "NERFED" harder than the other is never going to get anywhere because you people treat killer verses survivor with the fervor of sports fans. The bottom line is this...
Killers are currently frustrated at the META for a multitude of reasons. Having to hit a survivor potentially 5 times due to multiple perks preventing potential hits is very hard to counter. Some maps are just flat out BAD for a good amount of killers and survivors don't really have a equivalent map that is really bad for them. And to sum a lot of other frustration up, its really annoying that to do well as killer, you really have to just sit down and get good at nurse, and a lot of us don't want to do that because we all have our favorites.
Survivors are currently frustrated at the META because impossible 3 Gen camps are a thing especially with skull merchant, the killers are incentivized to go after survivors with damaged health states and tunnel/camp hooks to apply pressure, and I don't if this is still a major complaint from this side of the isle but I remember hearing a lot about survivors being really upset that perks like light born and franklins demise exist, but that might not be the case anymore.
And then for the elephant in the room; THE 3 GEN STANDOFF. I think it can be said that there is a lot in this game on both sides that have resulted in us arriving at this type of meta, and sadly I think it will always come down to a chicken in the egg kind of blame circle. Survivors hate 3 gen because it slows the game down and can be really hard to win if a killer bring the right set ups and defends a good 3 gen. Killer kind of have to play 3 gen because gen rushing is such a problem for a lot of killer to counter effectively. Survivors take meta perks because killers are incentivized to tunnel and camp to apply pressure. Killers tunnel and camp to defend kills to try and squeeze whatever blood points they can out of a unwinnable match. We could go on and on and around and around in circles trying to point the blame at whoever started this but ultimately its all about the objective of the game.
Killers are going to defend hooks and use the opportunity of altruistic survivors to pull people off of generators and deplete health states and get kills to make it harder for survivors to complete gens.
Survivors are going to bring perks and items to help them achieve completing gens fast and preventing as many hooks and hits as possible to get out alive.
Where in lies the problem is the expectations of fun chases. Not everyone is going to be amazing at chase on either side. As a newer killer main I can tell you that it is really frustrating to be looped for a couple minutes straight while gens pop around me just because I really want to hit this damn flash light clicking and crouch spamming bill that has been stringing be along most of the game. but that is MY expectation of having a fun chase. A fun chase for me is outwitting the survivor and hitting them and then hooking them. Survivors I think have the same expectation of fun for chases just on the other side. They want to convince a killer to commit to them so they can show off their sick moves and escape getting hit within a fraction of a second, but its really frustrating for survivors to get hit and then be tunneled or camped because the killer needs them out of the game.
Its an argument of who is allowed to have fun with chases and if chases are the primary goal of the game. At this point I honestly think that gen pressure has just become so much more of a priority for killers AND survivors that the chase just isn't really that important anymore. And the META reflects this.
Killers are going to bring slow down perks and try to get survivors on hooks and keep them there to slow down the game. The killer needs to STALL to win.
Survivors will bring strong gen rush items and chase perks to prevent the killer from doing this so that they can RUSH the game.
We are diametrically opposed in our goals via gameplay, and the metal reflects this.
I think that's why bringing a specific fix to the game is going to take a lot more than just changing some map size or limiting perks. The developers for the game have been pushing the game in this direction for a while, and I think we all just need to adapt and try to find ways to have fun in the current state of the game. The game is just so HEAVLY based on this type of gameplay style that I don't see what you could possibly do to change the game from gens to chase without heavily gutting one side or the other.
Most of this makes sense except for one thing.
it doesn't really address the efforts of the devs to balance the game so far.
Or on another topic, the map design being heavily survivor sided by their size and composition (plenty of pallets and gens blatantly adjacents to safe windows) and so forth.
I feel for killer right now way more than survivors. when survivors shows up and complain about something (eruption, Hex: ruin, pop the weasel... Hillbilly? Pig? ) the devs take the perks/ killer's basekit out and put them down like a dog.
but if they dare nerf let's say, Dead hard, we have a good time for a few moments at best before it comes back with a minor asterisk that does not affect the outcomes... effectively we back to square 1.
honestly, I am sick of how unbalanced this has been in the past and no one acknowledging that in the slightiest.
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373866#Comment_3373866
Mostly bad ideas, again, that demonstrate why the devs don't listen to the forums. And why I was right about it speaking volumes.
Your "simple fix" absolutely will be abused by Killers to ensure you always get solo queue Survivors, so that won't be happening. And to break down your list...
- Nope, hurts casuals SWFs and solos in the match.
- Nope, hurts casuals SWFs and solos in the match.
- Your Shattered rework sounds bad and unfair for the obsession, sorry. A doesn't include boon buffs when it should. B sounds interesting though.
- I can't math so I'm going to assume that's bad since maps that are too small are typically too easy to patrol, which shouldn't be the case.
- Or you can just kick the god pallet? This is such a miniscule complaint, god pallets don't buy much in the grand scheme of things and there isn't nearly enough to bother. And if you're going to go "BORGO", still not enough god pallets. RPD has noticeably more, but once they're gone, those rooms become dead zones.
Consider the following: To deal with meta, you should play meta. Or do... anything to counter meta. I have no idea why this community is so entitled that they should be able to easily and consistently shut down meta stuff (whether it be perks, add-ons, etc) while not changing anything about their builds or playstyles, not even perks or add-ons.
I sense you're a "Killer main" like Spectral tbh, your opinions are waaaay too Killer biased. If DBD ever looks at listening to pros for upcoming updates, I hope they filter feedback that comes from Survivor/Killer "mains" who give takes like this.
I mean, I read your username and your second* line and I know some points I'm going to whole heartedly disagree with are inbound, in fact, it was the case.
shaking my head.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373908#Comment_3373908
No chase power but instadown if you dont disable the drone, and I'd you do, great, she can just put another immediately in its place
Thankfully though this will get nerfed next week and It'll actually be possible to do gens, just don't believe that some are saying "it's ez to counter" like no, its not easy in ANY way and sometimes downright impossible
The insta-down takes forever to kickin and the minigame to disarm the drone is a joke.
Honestly, it barely do anything for the killer because its so easy to run for the edge of the map where she won't go after you. If anything I'd give her an haste bonus to actually secure a kill when a survivors is exposed like that.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374315#Comment_3374315
I never said that. My point is: gen-times are not the problem, the early game, ENG-based, is the problem. If survs spawn together, its less problematic. You akways lose a gen at the start and I dont mind that.
If I had something to say, I would put in a short Corrupt Intervention Basekit (20sec would already enough).
except, gen time IS the issue.
and perhaps you haven't worded it in that specific way, but I fail to see the difference.
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I mean, the first order of buisness is reduce the amount of safe pallets/windows everywhere and make the maps smaller.
then maybe M1 killers with be viable. in a world where they properly balance the blight and nurse and stop making every maps for them in mind essentially.
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@SkeletalElite said:
Breaking the 3 gen early was a viable strategy prior 6.1.0 because the killer meta was all regression perks requiring downs to activate. The only exception being ruin which could be disabled for the rest of hte match once the hex is gone.
In the previous meta, "break the 3 gen early" was the legitmate way to avoid a 3 gen because a killer commiting to a 3 gen early meant they were losing the rest of the match for nothing. When their regression perks all required survivor interaction to activate, they could not reliably defend a 3 gen from the start against a team who had all their resources (pallets/items/perks/hooks/etc.) Thus, 3 gens were a fallback strategy used if available rather than a primary go to strategy.
This new meta revolves around CoB/OC though, 2 strong regression perks that activate without interacting with survivors and synergize, and unlike ruin, cannot be taken out of play. This enables a hyper defensive style of play that, combined with a 3 gen, allows even killers without a power that is especially good at it to delay a very long time. They can often win despite having given up on other gens early. Killers with powers that are particularly effective at this, like knight and skull merchant, can hold the 3 gen indefinitely against most teams. The winner is usually whoever gives up first because they aren't willing to wait until the 1-hour mark for the match to automatically cancel.
In fact if a killer is committing to a 3 gen early, we've actually come full circle. You're now better off just taking all the other gens on the map because if you still have to get them done after you're done fighting the 3 gen you might actually lose to the attrition at that point. You may as well take the other gens while they're free and THEN fight the battle for the 3 gen because it is inevitable that you are going to have to fight it. Leaving the other gens up isn't providing any value if the killer is treating them like they're completed and abandoning them from the start.
Hot take: The 3 gen meta isn't fueled by any killer's perk.
It's fueled but Circles of Healing and other boons that allows the survivors to rush the other gens very quickly (maybe after a down or 2 the killer only has 1-2 gen to go)
then what happens is a stalemate because all the 4 remaining survivors have to do is cycle through a deadzone the killer can't afford to pressure and just take turns forever. Dead hard and other mobility exhaustion perks basically guaratee the survivors a fall back plan to their team's designated healing spot and said healing no longer requires a teammate.
the result is obvious, killers have been falling back to these regression perks not by choice but by necessity.
any killer that isn't Nurse or Blight do not have the mobility to pressure the healings provided by the totem and said totem's magic never runs out. It keeps the game in a slow albeit certainly losing curve that the Skull merchant can merely offset at best (Hence the current state of the game).
if Boons were like hexes and could removed from play, I guarantee the story would be different.
unfortunatley, the precedent is that the devs nerf killers again and again and fail to address the source of the issue that is rooted in the survivor's toolkit
soon to come more nerfs to the pig I guess... oh wait this time it's going to be skull merchant.
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@DjEnderFox107 said:
For everyone who is going to read this I’m writing a multi part forum of different ideas that may or may not be suitable with dead by daylight, some of my forum will connect with one another so check each one I have posted.
-Survivors can repair pallets
With a feature of giving pallets durability, being able to repair gives a even playing field for survivors.
Giving survivors the ability to repair pallets would allow survivors from creating what the community calls a deadzone, with no pallets to stun or create distance from the killer.
Additional perks and add on to the tool box such as being able to repair pallets quicker or giving pallets more durability creates a great addition to the feature.
what do you mean repair pallets?
There is like a million of them already. if survivors pre-drop every pallets they find, if they are semi-competent at doing the gens, the map should still be having plenty of them left.
like in some instance, you can have, no kidding, 2 god pallet next to one another and you mean to tell me survivors would need to get more?
hell to the no.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374441#Comment_3374441
You said it like it is the wrong thing to do. Games need to be balanced around the "extreme" end of the bar, because if you balance it taking in count the bottom of the barrel those who are above that would crush the other side. So, the talk should be around those "extremes", not the "casual 99%" that don't have any intention to be better at the game and blames anything but themselves when they lose.
But dude, how are the casuals survivors going to T-bag the killer with a 4 man escape after giving in a perfeclty distributed 8 hooks to the killer after pre-dropping all the pallets and running the windows dry?
for real, how are they going to take five step to the next god pallet if you don't give one to them at every corner?
How are they going to chase you to a deadzone with a CoH totem and bait the chase switch and cycle the killer forever for their YT/Twitch killer fail compilation?
think of the skillfull content creators out there man! /sarcasm.
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@Blueberry said:
I think most people agree the speed at which gens can be done is an issue, I guess where most people disagree is the solution.
I tend to feel that the core issue is two fold. First is the start of the match with spawns and second is average chase length.
Rather than gen speeds being increased I’d rather them address it by fixing these issues.
We need a built in early game collapse, like a Corrupt at base kit. The start of the game with spawns and no pressure developed causes early gens to be near impossible to stop for your first chase.
Next is that chases are lasting way too long between second chance perks extending them and loops in general being way too safe. Essentially this boils down to most the killer roster being unable to even if played perfectly, accurately pressure enough to realistically slow gens down. This is also heavily exacerbated by maps being way, way too large on average to properly pressure.
Forgot to mention it but this lack of ability to pressure is also heavily exacerbated by injures being meaningless as self healing between medkits and CoH is out of control. It prevents hit and run pressure from actually slowing gens down and getting survivors off gens to heal each other. Healing needs to force survivors off gens to heal each other.
Now this is all the idealistic solution to solving the core problem. However this would be a perfect world and realistically this would be a lot of work for the devs to fix. So while I don’t think just increasing gens times is the real best solution to the problem it would be the most realistic in terms of the easiest and quickest fix.
that post is right on the money, couldn't have better layed it out myself!
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373980#Comment_3373980
Is this surprising for you?
You start the match against 4 survivors. If u dont use Corrupt, they mostly spawn at a gen. If u are unlucky, they spawn at 3 different gens, so they start working the perfect way: Three Gens at the same time, so 90sec for 3 gens. You will find one of them and chase them, so its absolutely normal to lose 1-2 gens for your first hook. Deadlock saves 1 of the two being completed, but it only buys time.
To solve this early-game-advantage the survivors have, you want survivors to spawn together, unfortunately this offering is on survivor-side. But this has nothing to do with the gen-speed alone.
I disagree,
If it's at the point of "oh just run these teachables that are behind a paywall", it means the issue is fundamental in nature.
People pay to play, and on top of it some are saying that killer should pay to stand a chance to win?
Saying that killers starting every games on their back foot is "normal" is exactly what fuels this issue further.
Increasing gen times would help tremendously balance this game now that gen regress perks have been nerfed into the ground.
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Honestly, without increasing gen times there is now way killer stands a chance.
gen time right now is obnoxiously low, after like one little chase, gen anywhere between 2-3 can pop its unbelievable. the best case scenario I've seen is 1 gen one down, that economy is unplayable for killer.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373878#Comment_3373878
I think they're better off improving killer powers over increase gen times. stronger killer powers are more fun for killer to play and the survivor is less bored on generators.
so we can get Eruption and Hex: ruin back? that's would be great actually!
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373922#Comment_3373922
what a surprise more obvious bait
are you perhaps ... in disagrement?
If so, I would like to hear your bait... argument.
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@GillyBeannn said:
wow, sitting on gens for almost 2 minutes waiting for the occasional skillcheck sounds so fun.... such fun interactive gameplay right there
wow, watching all the gens pop up almost instantly after your 1st chase, such fun interactive gameplay right there.
as not thrilling as it sound, its about solving an existing issue.