Slowpeach
Slowpeach
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Borrowed time and Kindred, especially when together. Surprised neither was on this list though borrowed time is very well known for being amazing. Very little helps your team out more then making an unsafe hook safe.
I'm still learning some of the perks on survivor side, I know most of the killer ones so I had to look some of these up. Aftercare is solid and out of those options is what I voted for but I still think Kindred is better. When you or someone else is on hook that is the time for knowing where everyone else is and who is going for the save and who is working on generators and whether more then one person need to make the save due a campy killer. It also always works for the whole team. Aftercare however STOPS working at that critical moment if you are the one who is hooked and getting it's trigger conditions isn't always a gimme. It also does not reveal the killer if they are camping.
Vigil and Open handed are both potentially interesting and work decently on their own and are even better with coordination. I had to look both up, I admit it. The others I knew.
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I'll let them go but sometimes I need something. Like today I needed Plague's 'hit four survivors while they are maximum infected', annoyingly they constantly cleansed which is normally great for Plague but terrible for that ritual. One DC'ed on first hook. I wanted to show mercy and let them go but they kept damn cleansing, so I had to force them to waste time on unhooks just so I could puke on one for a bit and then hit them.
I lost count of hooks on one so I killed one by mistake and the other basically gave up. I wanted to give the last hatch but they kept wiggling off as I tried to lead them to it so I just rolled my eyes and hooked them too. I was sad about 4k.
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Both NOED and Dead Hard are bad for the same reason. They are a crutch that enables a weaker player to do things that greatly influence the game almost on demand. Yeah of the two Dead Hard is slightly more skilled and saying it rewards failure is... not right but both perks are still obvious crutches and I'd love to see both banished.
One makes it so that one less hit is required, the other negates a hit entirely they are both similar in their effects. Though NOED is slightly less obnoxious because there's 'some' albeit obnoxious counter play it only works at the end and if someone didn't snuff all the totems whereas Dead Hard works constantly throughout the match and you can't counterplay them using Dead Hard for distance and 'waiting it out' in other situations is bucket loads of not fun and is as obnoxious as NoED's totem counter. Baby survivors Dead Harding into the wall is not worth factoring into the discussion.
Point is though if you did a poll on most hated perk on both sides NOED and Dead Hard would win both sides by a landslide.
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Yeah it's really strange they didn't make him more about his music and using the screams of survivors to influence his power similar to Oni rather then having a version of Huntress or Deathslinger that is more spammy and makes zero sense for the character. Things like hits or hooks would influence his power thus encouraging him not to camp (people don't scream much on a hook).
What it actually does I dunno but it could have some effect with the terror radius similar to Doctor as he plays tunes to freak out the survivors or give himself a buff of some kind. Having him basically be an Oni/Doctor blend wouldn't be 'great' so the effect shouldn't be screaming but some other form of debuff.
I mean it's easy to say something is crap but designing something good, engaging and also not something that can get looped for 5 gens is not easy.
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@Blueberry said:
Very uninteractive game play.
You just hug walls but no matter how tight you hug you will slowly eat a knife or two here and there so you're guarenteed to go down.
So the survivor doesn't have fun because they will go down regardless of what they do but the Trickster also doesn't have fun because even though he's gonna get the down it's going to take too long so it loses him the game anyway.
This leads to neither side having much fun.
This. Also as someone else said it’s feast or famine for Trickster and his opponents. Not engaging. Dodging Huntress and Deathslinger on the other hand is engaging even if they are more powerful.
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@tippy2k2 said:
The MMR Hell. If you didn't survive, was it really a skilled play? gives you a bunch of potatoes as teammates who have no idea how to play the game, which in turn means you can't really ever escape because you need your teammates to be at least quasi-competent (they don't need to be super good but "not miss a basic skill check" good, which should take about 30 minutes of gameplay to get to...). But you keep getting potato teammates because you're "not skilled" in the eyes of BHVR and potato teammates get you killed which means you're "not skilled" in the eyes of BHVR which gets you potato teammates which...
It's amazing how damn bad some people can be at this game
Also also because more people need to go watch this guys stuff...
Thank you for this, it was a good watch.
It's funny how many people complain about killer camping and such yet this stuff doesn't annoy me anywhere near as much as survivors just not using (un)common sense. If you try something and fail, fine, but when you are just not doing anything productive and crouch walking around the map when you KNOW where the killer is, that is incredibly infuriating.
@WaveyTrey said:
As Solo Q you have to think for your own escape mostly. However, if you insist on team work to get out… You have to be FULLY responsible for your team as they’re lacking. This is because I noticed as a solo survivor if you’re too good at chases the killer will leave you for the easy prey. They get you later when the pallets are all gone.
1.) Be the support. Either the medic, or the flashlight savior. If survivors keep getting hurt/caught you have to tend to them until the others finish the objective. If all you do is gens as solo you’ll lose.
2.) Run Clairvoyance. Cleanse a totem. The moment the team fails you abandon them, and hide. Use that power, and find the hatch. You will escape most of the time. I know I always did using this perk as solo Q.
3.) Run Plunderers and Appraisal. Find a key, and get out. Use the rituals to spawn the hatch somewhere purposely. The killer will likely close it, and walk off to check the exits. Not knowing you can find a key somewhere, and open it. You usually find a purple/red key this way. If you start the trial with a key the killer is aware. They will either slap it out your hands, stand on hatch, or worse. A survivor finds where you left it.
Being support would work great if people actually wanted to be healed. Honestly, I chase survivors sometimes to try and heal them quickly because I've got perks to do it and they are basically like 'Nah, I'm gunna keep making loud noises and give away my position instead and go down instantly thanks'. I stopped running support perks because of this. The rest of the advice is alright but still frustrating and not enjoyable in my subjective opinion.
@Brokenbones said:
I was kind of surprised the Solo Q improvements weren't mentioned in the anniversary
Sorry to hear that your games haven't been going so well.
Well the best solo q survivor gets are bots. Hopefully they'll be at least passable for playing a good chunk of the game and some progression can still be made against them. I'm not betting on it though.
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Yeah I've been trying to learn survivor and mostly done solo queue... not recommended. I had an 'escape with Claudette' mission/ritual and oh my god it was horrible, it took me 8 games to do it and I've got better perks on Yoichi and Jake so its frustrating as hell.
Like a lot of people complain about the killer tunneling and camping which true is annoying but I can't fault the killer for taking advantage of somebody doing a bad play. I can however fault the idiot who thinks its a great idea to unhook me right in front of the killer without borrowed time. Twice! Another one I had two different Megs block me with a pallet when the killer was a fair distance away, then bodyblock me while the killer is coming and I'm trying to run and they are crouching through a doorway. 'Allied' survivors annoy me way more then anything the killer does and you really don't know whether or not they are doing it on purpose.
Granted if somebody unsafe hooks or blocks an ally with a pallet while I'm killer I will go out of my way to ignore the victim and hunt down the offender. I don't care about winning on killer but survivor based missions, rituals, tome things are usually escape or bust.
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I do think this is a fairly serious design issue. Some spots need to be really looked at and whether it has access to two or even three hooks, and/or killing someone should not destroy the hook. If the best play is to slug constantly that’s not fun for anyone.
This is especially obnoxious if the survivors take advantage of bad hook design. Bonus points if they sabotage the only eligible hook and run no mither meaning you can’t hook or slug them.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2976995#Comment_2976995
Sure, but that doesn't explain why people think Trickster is "unfun" but Huntress and Deathslinger aren't.
Because those two can't spam constantly and hope for the best. Trickster can. It's satisfying to dodge Huntress or Deathslinger, with Trickster it's like you are dead in the water or he cannot hit you with little between the two extremes, it's simply not an engaging killer to go against win or lose.
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I think what’s interesting here is that every killer has been mentioned at least once except Hillbilly and Demogorgan. Correct me if I’m wrong. Deathslinger surprisingly I think also has only shown up once and outside that persons three picks. Seems like Hag, Trickster and Nurse have the most but I haven’t counted.
Though some people I honestly wonder what they want from the game if they want to disable one third or more of the content 😊. Though I get it, some people judge on the player a killer attracts and the play style they use rather then the design itself.
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Sure but some feedback is better then none at all and even the notes themselves can tell a bit though wrongful conclusions are inevitable no matter what. After all in general even as the game stand now some people are divided on what is or isn’t an issue.
The biggest factor though is that I think people are a bit nervous about what’s been said about changes and want to prevent disaster. The game has a lot of frustrating elements and people are worried that’s going to multiply. They want to know whether it is worth investing their time and mind into this game or not and right now that’s in limbo.
Personally I’m here for a bit unless things get really bad and/or the fixes to certain issues take too long. In other words if it really stops being fun.
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Yes and no.
Like many things in this game, if used healthy as merely an anti tunnel measure, no not at all. Tunneling is simply not fun yet the game encourages it, so some counter element is good to have. It also only works once a game per survivor and there is 'some' counterplay if you suspect it (leave them slugged). Unlike Dead Hard when used for distance.
If DS is used in a toxic way to bodyblock somebody else for example knowing you can't do anything to them which in other words means not tunneling, that is incredibly annoying. I do think the perk is a tad too flexible but I can't think of a way to design it in such a way that is purely anti tunnel yet isn't used as a way to block hits intended for others and punish the killer for trying NOT to tunnel.
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Nurse, Hag, Trickster
Still don't have that much experience on survivor but I'm getting there, but on a fun level alone these three at the moment, haven't faced a Clown, Artist or Twins yet and they are popular for hate, but then some people seem to hate Legion too and I have no issue with them. As a mostly killer player though this is informative for me. I don't like making people sad and prefer they have fun but I also want to challenge them if I can.
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@Chiky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2975485#Comment_2975485
is it banneable? I have played games where another survivor stands in my way (when i'm a survivor) and just remains there and I can't push them or move through them or anything and i'm just there in a corner or a closed room or something trapped for some time until they decide to move...
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system#latest
According to the 'games rules and report system' thread here yes. There's a lot you can't/shouldn't report for (toxicity among them) but holding the game hostage is one of the things you can. The problem is how do you define that. I mean obviously outright bodyblocking a survivor as either another survivor or a killer forever without moving yeah 100% reportable. Doing things however like making no attempt to win the game and just constantly stopping the killer get hooks with bodyblocking/heals/boil over/sabotage etc.? That's more murky even though it can be theoretically impossible for the killer to make progress but good luck proving that.
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I'm a killer main, well mostly I'm playing/learning survivor at the moment, I personally don't like Noed's design. It doesn't encourage failure since survivors don't win until they escape, that means last gen being done game is not over yet, it's simply a crutch ironically like Dead Hard. I'd be delighted if both were removed.
It also doesn't help that not only does it do nothing until 5 gens are done, it also makes it impossible to rescue someone on hook if they are face camped which encourages very toxic/unfun but still 'valid' playstyles. Most exposed based perks or killer abilities have very strict conditions.
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Like many things complained about here in moderation it's not an issue.
However when over abused it is incredibly annoying to the point of 'holding the game hostage' but because it's a fringe case and nothing is done about toxic behavior in general, it just thrives. What a surprise. As killer I just try make the game fun for others so don't run meta at all, and do stuff like 'no reverse bear trap Pig', so coming up against this? I just give up. I sit near gates and wait for 5 gens and let them out. Stop wasting my time, the game is already easy enough for you, and I know I'm bad, big deal so what I don't care.
Bodyblocking is especially obnoxious when paired with Boil Over. As it stands even with only one survivor to hook with no interference knocking someone down in certain spots some hooks can be 'barely' reached. If it's sabotaged bad luck. If you get bodyblocked bad luck. Only option is slugging but you can't possibly know that in advance and that's also considered bad manners and I'd rather take the L then take part in the toxic arms race.
Personally I think the killer should be better notified of someone body blocking them. It's sometimes hard to tell if you can't move because of boil over/wiggle or someone is actually blocking you and that costs you precious seconds, as does swinging the weapon.
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They are likely angry for something you didn't do. To them all killers and/or survivors are faceless beings that will always exist and are not humans so therefore they can abuse them as they like. This extends to the real world too I'm afraid...
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@Mozic said:
Between trials, the killers congregate in a dimly lit, poorly stocked office-style breakroom before they're individually called over a crackling intercom that they're expected for their next trial.
This is based on nothing but I won't be convinced otherwise.
I think you can imagine it however you like. I personally think the Entity would grant favours and luxuries to certain killers and 'encouragement' to others less willing. On the other end of the spectrum though with Myers it's probably more like 'Bro that's my lunch! How many times are we going to go over this! Goddamn!'
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Honestly I don’t carry to hatch because even if I know where it is half the time the survivor resists when it’s obvious I’m not hooking them, gets off me and then keeps searching in completely the wrong place. These days I just close it and stand menacingly at the gate they open but don’t actually attack.
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Hits near hooks just seem to be notoriously buggy. Really annoying when you are swinging at a rescuer and somehow the game decides ‘no you uselessly hit the person on hook behind them lol’
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@YOURFRIEND said:
Please do not try to punish people for simply playing with their friends.
Just like face camping: take the sting out of the experience by offering a BP multiplier at the end of the match. Making fun stuff punitive is a horrible mistake.
Hmmm…. Okay, this is a good point. Still. Considering how tilted the game to survivors is and clearly not designed for communication it’s pretty hard to balance solo and swf. Inevitably you are going to anger someone. Arguably one of the reasons bully squads are born is from the notion that the game is simply too easy playing it normally. However nerfing survivors to make the game more challenging hurts solo much more.
Definitely support the idea that a victim of a face camp should get more blood points due to basically being told ‘you don’t get to play’. As it is now they are basically punished for something not in their control.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
It’s fine now. If there’s any remaining spots on certain maps where survivors can’t be hooked, then that’s a map design issue that needs to be addressed, and I do think hooks breaking permanently after sacrifice needs to go.
This. I think a good study over what hooks are and are not feasible to reach needs to be looked at. Especially if hooks are missing or sabotaged. If the killer misplays sure they should lose their prey but if it's not mathematically possible? That's a problem. A survivor shouldn't ever be allowed to basically have a zone where they know they can go down and never be hooked.
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@CluelessWanderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2957074#Comment_2957074
I have a theory that BHVR knows the level of toxicity and rivalry in DBD. The whole Survivor Main vs Killer main dichotomy is lucrative for them. Many perks/changes they make encourage bitterness. It can't be coincidence.
Damnnn that’s a dark thought. Still one has to wonder..,
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Nice. I can feel less bad about playing Pig... or at least use reverse bear traps again... Still the chances of finding it earlier should be lower and scale for each additional one. For example, 10%/40%/70%/guaranteed. I dunno, maybe the base 20% is good enough.
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Really hope they don't double back on the bot promise. I know of at least two people who will play this game if bots are introduced.
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I actually like her design a lot... I dunno maybe I like characters that don't look 'good' to other people's standards.
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Yeah... this one in particular feels like looking at numbers and not connecting them to logic. I'd be willing to bet Self Care is also attached to newer/inexperienced players and has a higher 'death rate' when used.
It's a decent perk but not amazing and it is very easy to misuse.
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Yeah... if they nerf BBQ because it gets used too much that's classic 'management' decision. Looking at stats and numbers and not understanding the reason for them.
I wouldn't use BBQ if it wasn't for the BP boost. Honestly for We're gunna live forever and BBQ their boosts should just be default anyway.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2954967#Comment_2954967
- It’s unlikely we’ll hear any changes on Facecamping, mainly because it’s something they’re worked on apparently on and off for a long time and never found a solution that was effective but that also didn’t break something else. But who knows, I’d love to be wrong!
- I’ll be a bit surprised if they don’t give details on the bloodpoint revamp they’ve been working on for six months.
- It’s also been six months since they mentioned working on new status icons for solo survivors so that seems likely too.
- Sadako’s first full balance pass is probably next midchapter is my guess, the full chapters tend to focus more on the new killer. But again, if I’m wrong great!
- They already implemented the backfill related MMR changes they discussed in that big blog post a month ago. One change they didn’t do yet was they said they are planning to adjust the MMR algorithm to treat survivors as an actual team for purposes of going up or down versus every survivor being treated independently. That would address the situations where one survivor sacrifices themselves to help everybody else escape but loses MMR in the process currently.
I do wonder on face camping specifically, not camping or tunnelling. Like a fix shouldn't be that hard considering how obvious it is someone is doing it. One possible fix would be that a survivor dies on hook MUCH slower if they are actively being face camped (i.e within a very small distance of a hooked survivor with no other survivors in that radius) as well as loading screen tips about this very factor. The entity likes to savour his food in peace, don't get in his face.
Therefore it at the very least encourages a killer to move elsewhere and give the survivors a chance for a rescue unless they are playing a very specific killer for face camping (e.g Bubba). They can still camp but being up in the face is a no no. Of course they can still do it but at that point they are throwing the game to be a 'not a nice person' and the amount of ways survivors have to do this is immense so...
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Yeah I’ve never liked Dwight getting the Ellis skin because it really doesn’t suit him but then I thought who does it suit?
The point is there aren’t any free spirit/fun male survivors. Jake sort of but in more of an independent way and certainly not a fun/silly way, though Ellis skin suits him more then Francis IMO. Adam has shown some potential to be but in his own quote he was raised by a very strict man. So yeah, we kinda need a cloud cuckoolander type male character.
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@UnluckyDucky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2952045#Comment_2952045
They pump out the suzie skins because teh art department has a hard on for uwu gamer girls and they are incapable of making a badass female skin that doesn't pander to cuteness or sexiness--in most cases. we occassionally get a dope ass Hag or Huntress skin.
and idk about Joey being another part of frank, isn't he black? if he were an alter/personality of Frank idk if that would change his race
That’s the part of the theory that doesn’t work for me as well. Unless of course Frank is mixed heritage and it’s a weird way to express it. Well hopefully it’ll get debunked soon.
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The only thought I had with SWF vs. solo is that perks cannot be stacked if you are with a SWF. This might be a meaningful handicap without completely destroying SWF. Like if you are playing with a 3 man SWF you cannot run Dead Hard more than once on your three team mates but the solo player out of the 4 can run whatever they want and solo players would be unaffected. There's reasons I don't like this idea but anything else seems too specific at 'weakening' SWF.
That honestly is one of the biggest problems I have when facing SWF, perk stacking. Especially with bully squads who depend on running the same perk multiple times to make the game as unpleasant as possible.
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@Zeidoktor said:
Very least I would say make the point boosting effects of WGLF and BBQ basekit.
Yes it'll be a nerf to those particular perks, but it will make the grind easier all by itself.
Is it really a nerf when you are still getting the entire effect of the perk anyway? Also those two perks in particular are viable without the bloodpoint boost anyway. Even if they did nothing but the bloodpoint boost I would run both.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2951134#Comment_2951134
The thing is that if killers were offered the ability to trade NOED or even three additional killer perks to be removed to get rid of Dead Hard they would take that deal without hesitation.
Killers would have an aneurism if the developers really did get rid of NOED for DH. But, if the developers are willing to get rid of DH and 3 Killer perks, could I suggest NOED, BBQ and Ruin?
As far as I'm concerned? Deal. Obviously I can't speak for every killer and certainly some would hate losing NoED but I agree it's too easy to abuse it and it's not healthy for gameplay even if it isn't overpowered. I agree on it's removal for the same principal of removing dead hard.
Of those I only use BBQ and would still use it if it only gave the bloodpoints and no aura reading. I was going to make a thread on this at some point about bloodpoint giving perks on both sides like We're Gunna Live Forever and BBQ. You should just always get 100% bloodpoints, you shouldn't have to use certain perks to improve your bloodpoint earning. I mean if you really want to attach it to hooking or doing rescues fine (and generators), but whatever.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2953399#Comment_2953399
The average kill rate is above 50%, which tells us what everyone already knew, bad Survivors (the overwhelming majority) die a lot, not that Killers are OP.
We do not know what the kill rate is like at top MMR
The other part of that detail of course is that mediocre killer players kill mediocre survivors much more then good killers kill good survivors. Then on top of that you've got SWF balance vs. solo survivor balance. Honestly it's a very hard problem to solve.
Mostly I would merely deal with the frustration side of it (bullying, dead hard etc.) and just have the balance largely remain as is, at least as far as the higher then average killers are concerned, the lower end of the killers do need love. Tilting the balance towards the killer as much as it might actually be the more 'balanced' thing to do as far as the game being played well is concerned, may not actually be the right move.
Ultimately you can set up competitive leagues and whatnot with rules to hinder the survivors if need be but the game being played publicly should be largely 'chill' and not taken seriously. Hence why dealing with frustration factors and people deliberately attempting to 'bully' and better solutions to extreme tunnelling should be a very high priority.
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Yeah I don't think so. Considering you need 4 players for every 1 killer this sort of thing is inevitable. I've seen what happens when it's the other way around. Game dies in record time. On a personal level, I don't look to win so I don't tend to get stressed. Gen rush me or whatever, I don't care, I'll take what I can get.
Having said that, it is a little 'too' in favour of survivors at the moment. Bully squads are arguably increasing because doing the game normally is too boring/easy. That very concept needs to absolutely be destroyed because of it's utter ridiculousness and this does cause me annoyance. As a side note getting rid of Dead Hard's current effect for frustration reasons alone never mind the overwhelming statistics would also be an excellent start.
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The problem is that the rework ultimately failed to address Legion's biggest problem.
They are excellent on newer/weaker players and absolutely trash on experienced ones.
Legion is the only killer in the game who cannot down people with their power unless they REALLY screw up. Certainly not without addons unless the survivors basically allow it through not knowing any better. You ask me Frenzy on a hit needs to have another effect entirely or the entire ability needs to go in the bin.
Having another effect would probably be preferred for all. I agree mending is not fun to deal with but overpowered? Absolutely not.
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Yeah the only thing I know this perk being used in a 'beneficial' way is one guy deliberately allowing themselves to be downed in a position that has only one eligible hook and then someone else sabotages that hook. The killer is now in zugzwang to use a chess term which basically means any move they make loses, if they pick them up they don't make it to a hook, if the killer doesn't, they get up on their own. They can also run other perks which make it difficult for the killer to transport or whatever.
Granted the only winning move in this scenario is not to play and ignore the guy but that can take time to figure out. There are also a few maps and RNG where there's a lot of spots where this is viable. Heaven help you if THREE people are in on this.
Considering this? It absolutely should have another effect entirely if it's best contribution to the game is basically bullying.
Why does David have such polarising perks? Even We gunna live forever while not overpowered is still the best bloodpoint booster.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2952531#Comment_2952531
Practice mode would be a huge addition for the game. It's so silly that players have to learn the power mechanics by losing repeatedly. Imagine if Billy players could practice curves or Nurse players could get blink distance and timing down before going into their first matches.
Yeah... the tutorial and starting up in this game is awful and it shows. It really needs a playing for and against every killer in there. Just basic mechanics of how they work and what to look out for such as needing to mend against Legion and it not being a good idea to clump together as well as them being able to see you if they have frenzy even if you go into a locker. This is just an example since Legion is a notorious 'beginner basher' yet seems to be awful higher up.
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@ACleverName4Me said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2952502#Comment_2952502
The game has been toxic for a long time. It's just now gotten worse due to several factors and the build up of almost 7 years. I'm happy you are at peace with how you play. The arms race will however, continue no matter who is playing, what they are playing and where. Not just in dbd but in any game that features pvp
Yeah. I am fairly new myself but after coming off several online games... well let's just say they all have their problems as you say and a lot of them come down to players preferring a certain gameplay style whether it's balanced or not and doing everything in their power to convince themselves and everyone else that it's 'okay' even if this completely invalidates other playstyles. Something as killer DBD doesn't have. I can use whatever build I want and unless I'm being obnoxious, most people won't care.
Ultimately toxicity is born from passion twisted.
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Not sure. Personally in league (or Dota) I can't play that game with people anymore (bots are fine, especially for Dota) because of how toxic players are. Kinda what drew me to this game, ultimately as killer especially I'm only accountable to myself. That and it doesn't matter how hard I want to try, if I want to let off the gas and let my opponents win to give them more blood points I am allowed to do so. If I try a different build or something that isn't 'meta' in Dota or League it's considered a cardinal sin.
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I will not. I will not sink to the level that 'some' players on both sides do. Still the way the 'toxic arms race' is, this is the only inevitable conclusion both sides will reach. Fun for all! Amirite?
Still I obviously can't stop you or anyone on either side if that's how you want to play it but know you are harming the game in the long run. It's easy to see the other players are soulless beings who always replenish and are always there, especially when one group treats you like absolute crap but that just isn't true.
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The problem is 4 swf bully squads are probably one of the biggest reason there is a proven killer exodus and as some call them 'whiny killer mains'. Even if you 'win' (because let's be honest bully squads are doing it because playing the game regularly is too easy/boring so their idea of victory is different) it is horrible to go up against and absolutely must be factored into balance. Otherwise soon enough there won't be anybody left for them to bully.
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@Omans said:
Good killers know that the problem is not Dead hard. Dead hard contributes to the already-low skill requirement in this game. I have probably more time (many thousands of hours and several tournaments, a streamer too, you can ask for my stream profile in a DM if you want) on killer than any of the posters in this thread, and I can speak for killers who actually know what they are talking about when I say that the issue is not dead hard.
The issue is gen times (especially when doing a gen with a fellow survivor), the fact that the killer can't know for sure if they are facing solo survivors or SWF, the irritably terrible randomness of maps (sometimes you get a map where it is impossible to lose as killer, sometimes it is impossible to win...why is there not a standard yet....?). I know it is mentioned in the video, but sprint burst is truly just as aggrivating to deal with as dead hard. If dead hard is nerfed then all the people in this thread bemoaning Dead hard will be shocked at how little changes if Dead hard is the only thing that changes.
Sorry, but if you listen to this video you are truly missing the forest for the trees.
Dead Hard is as much if not more of a mental thing then a balance thing. Listen to how many people call this video cathartic, this is more then just 'it's too strong nerf', it is a legitimate pain relief. I do think from a balance perspective Dead Hard is the biggest contributor to the games imbalance. It is not the only one, simple math tells you that however I think merely from a frustration/mental standpoint alone Dead Hard should be made utterly unrecognisable. As argued Sprint is mentally easier to deal with because its at the start of a chase not the end. Balance wise it changes very little but I don't think that's the goal here even if people would deny it, even to themselves.
I personally accept that the game should be somewhat biased to the survivors because more people have to play them. You do NOT want a 1vs4 game where more people want to play the 1 side. I've seen games like this and they die very fast.
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@Sumnox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2952329#Comment_2952329
This has a very easy explanation. This forum -does- have a majority of entitled killer mains, and the reason is, the moment the match doesn't go their way, they immediately rush to the forums to complain about it. It doesn't matter the circumstances, the situation, the cause of it. They will find an excuse as to why they lost (it's never them) . Of course there's entitled survivors here complaining as well, but comparatively speaking you can just see the disproportionately higher number of killer players that do this.
I see a lot of survivors (myself included) complaining about the general state of solo queue for example. Not survivor in general. Even when there's valid reasons for it.
On the other hand, you see killers whining about everything. The maps, the perks, the skins, the colors, teabagging, bodyblocking, rainbow maps (yes, they complain even about rainbow maps), keys, medkits, toolboxes, gens speed, windows, tiles.
It's just an endless list of complaints one after another to avoid the number 1 reason you're not winning your games as often as you'd like: You.
The major reason why killers whine more is twofold.
- Survivors can usually vent to each other if survive with friends.
- The game is legitimately stacked against the killer. Simple math of average find, chase, hook time vs. how long it takes 3 people to do generators+escape proves that. That's acceptable considering survivor should be more appealing because you require 4 survivors for every killer but it's a bit too far at the moment and Dead Hard is the biggest contributor.
Solo survivors have their own grievances for sure but I think if players were made to play solo (not a good idea just pointing it out) killer complaints relative to survivor ones would go down significantly.
Also Dead Hard is as much a frustration and mental thing as it is an overpowered thing. It denies the killer their reward right at the moment they are about to get it and no amount of counterplay is healthy or even feasible in some cases. The arguments against Dead Hard at this point are overwhelming.
I'm sure some WILL complain about sprint burst or overcome or whatever, just like some survivors complain about blood lust but the 'mental' thing of dealing with sprint burst is a lot easier. It's much harder to manage sprint burst then Dead Hard and when it happens, it's at the start of a chase not the end.
Oh and btw, you can take any three or four killer perks for Dead Hard. You can nerf Blight or Nurse too from where I sit. I don't even play to win and I loathe Dead Hard.
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Considering that there are 4 survivors against 1 killer it is absolutely very possible and some teams do this they look to make hooking impossible which is an absolute joy to play against *sarcasm*. True as a solo player sabotaging is near useless aside getting bloodpoints for it. As a group though? Not so much.
I was contemplating making a topic on this very subject about whether some hooks are physically impossible to make and whether that is an issue or not. You can drop the survivor sure and go for somebody else but if this happens a lot... well...
Yes some maps have 2 or 3 potential hook locations from a given spot and sabotaging all of them even in a SWF is very difficult but then there's always bodyblocking. In some cases there is only one eligible hook and it's very obvious which one it is and between bodyblocking and sabotaging, it's quite possible that a hook is impossible even with only 3 survivors vs. 1 killer. There are even builds which ramp this up to 11.
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There's plenty of other things SWF can do that are grossly unfair. This isn't one of them. Making hooks physically impossible on the other hand?
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That explains why there was one twins game where the killer did nothing but use Victor all game from far distances. I don't think they got it either. Poor guy.
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Well unfortunately simple math as a killer tells you to tunnel/camp. Then the ultimate fact that the math simply favours the survivors overwhelmingly with how long the find>chase>hook process is vs. how long it takes a team of 3 to do generators. These two factors are why the game gets toxic. Either it's too easy for the survivors no matter what the killer does which results in bullying to find amusement in the game or one survivor has a miserable time being tunneled out and basically being told 'you don't get to play'. Both sides then ultimately feel cheated by the other and up the toxic arms race.
Personally I wouldn't run BBQ if it didn't have the bloodpoints and personally think they should just give 100% of bloodpoints post game and remove the part that gives extra blood points from all the perks that do, on both survivor and killer. I'd rather run discordance, surveillance or tinkerer and for some killers (trapper) even Whispers over BBQ.
BBQ is decent sure but it only works if you get a hook and only if they aren't close to you and lockers counter it. Granted like all info perks what it 'doesn't' tell you is sometimes as good as what it does, but in this case you don't get an exact position so not exactly. So ultimately I'd rather run something that will DEFINATELY tell me something.
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Faulty logic would be my guess. Like 'oh they'll see me if I'm near someone else'. There's certainly no shortage of that in the real world.