Shraar
Shraar
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@Orion said:
@Shraar said:
@Orion said:
Vigo has learned how to bend the Entity's rules to his favor. Note that the characters don't know there's no escape. When they give up, they go into the Void for all eternity.Don't you think that's super lame? WE know that. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." there needs to be something that is the antithesis of the Entity. Maybe there is some benevolent force who has invaded the Entity's realm, instead of endless torture it is creating Generators and ways to escape while the Entity empowers the Killer so he can watch more suffering.
Being tortured endlessly then thrown away is just the blandest most disheartening story ever. That's not something anyone can get into. The lore needs to be looked at, the Entity isn't compelling.
Newton's third law of motion applies to physics. It's not a general statement about life.
Most players who've taken the time to read the lore find it compelling. I'm afraid you're in the minority here.Yes it is. The brighter the flame the darker the shadow. The bigger they are the harder they fall. What comes up must go down. Karma comes back around. It's hard to deny there's an inherent balance to the universe, and if there is some malevolent Entity out in the cosmos abducting souls to torment, a benevolent Entity that seeks to rescue and heal them is expected.
You can't say "most new players" enjoy the lore, you don't speak for anyone but yourself. If you think it's good writing to have Ojomo the car crusher suddenly gain a magical bell that makes him invisible, or a Nurse who gains the ability to teleport and scream when she does because I guess it's extra spooky sure, have at it, but it's objectively bad to any real criticism.
Read first post here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/2402/every-lore-related-question-devs-answered-81-questions-and-some-answers-1#latest
The majority of the answers are "Ohh it's a mystery!", "We don't know yet" or "Yeah that sounds cool sure", so it's clear they weren't forward thinking with the lore at first. That's why I'm not sure why you're resistant to a new idea.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
Kate.Voted for Nea since she's #2 for me.
That's not how voting works
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@TestDStrike said:
Is this good enough?Someone upload this to R#34 it's too sexy to be here
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@Orion said:
Vigo has learned how to bend the Entity's rules to his favor. Note that the characters don't know there's no escape. When they give up, they go into the Void for all eternity.Don't you think that's super lame? WE know that. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." there needs to be something that is the antithesis of the Entity. Maybe there is some benevolent force who has invaded the Entity's realm, instead of endless torture it is creating Generators and ways to escape while the Entity empowers the Killer so he can watch more suffering.
Being tortured endlessly then thrown away is just the blandest most disheartening story ever. That's not something anyone can get into. The lore needs to be looked at, the Entity isn't compelling.
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@Superyoshiegg said:
@Shraar said:
I don't think I am the one who missed the point. I am aware of what you said. I am suggesting that it would be a better gameplay experience as well as a more immersive one if there were more "fight" responses added to the game. The point of this discussion is exploring those options and thinking of ways to implement them that would be satisfying for Survivors without aggravating Killers.
This discussion is not about what is, it's about what could be.
Again, you're not meant to be able to fight back.
Look at Amnesia, Outlast and Alien Isolation. What helps makes those games so great is that you have little to no means of defence except fleeing and hiding. They wouldn't be nearly as interesting if you could just fight back against your aggressor.
Same applies to Dead by Daylight. You're meant to stay as far away from the killer as possible, not intentionally running up and tackling them.
I still disagree. Fear doesn't always mean running and hiding. There's more to it than that, and it doesn't feel right being unable to "fight back". That's why you get teabaggers and why Decisive Strike is so overbearing. People want it, and that's the only way they can do it: In an immersiveness shattering silly way.There could be healthier, more enjoyable ways to implement a "fight back" response but you need to think beyond what we've got right now. It opens up the door for so much more gameplay, why are you resistant to the idea?
Also, it's worth noting that in those other games (especially Alien) you're physically outmatched. Like, no chance at all. Even tiny teenage Laurie is capable of fighting back againt Michael Myers, imagine what David or Jeff could to do that hag. And before you say "The Entity made a rule..." no. That's arbitrary. The Entity, and everything it is is so vague and obviously fictional that it can do whatever the Devs say it wants.
Also think of Horror movies, where someone makes a heroic sacrifice. Such as the Truck Driver who throws a wrench at Leatherface, causing him to fall and saw his own leg. That's an extreme example, but it's pretty clear that not all "Survivors" need to be defenseless. Expand the possibilities, be forward thinking, don't limit yourself.
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Removed + reposted
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@Superyoshiegg said:
You seem to have missed the part where even the physically smallest of the killers are able to hold a fully grown struggling adult with one hand while also carrying a likely heavy weapon in the other.The survivors are meant to be defenceless. They are meant to run and hide, not fight back. That's the whole point.
I don't think I am the one who missed the point. I am aware of what you said. I am suggesting that it would be a better gameplay experience as well as a more immersive one if there were more "fight" responses added to the game. The point of this discussion is exploring those options and thinking of ways to implement them that would be satisfying for Survivors without aggravating Killers.
This discussion is not about what is, it's about what could be.
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It's a shame you're getting so many immature meme responses. Are some people so dumb they can only use pictures to communicate? How do they express themselves IRL? It's so annoying.
You are right that Camping and Tunneling is the worst experience a Survivor can have. You aren't playing the game. You're AFK on hook, then mashing space (so tedious) then dead. Nevermind that solo survivor teams are adversely affected by this strat, it's bad enough that one person have such a horrible experience playing a game.
You are also right in saying that the way the game is set up right now basically encourages camping/tunneling. You want to focus a Survivor to reduce their numbers advantage ASAP. If it's not a SWF, camping ensures a killer and wastes everyone's time. And I'll mention it again, the person on the hook is having 0 fun and is probably considering uninstalling.
Kindred being made baseline is a good start. That change where Hooked Survivors are less effective repairing is even better. I hope the devs consider this! Hooks are the worst thing about this game!
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I would like this if it was implemented in a way that isn't overly frustrating for Killers.
It does feel horrible to be David King, shirtless and sexy, but still be running away like a whimp from a teenage girl with a sharp ruler. Like, come on, let me Dead Hard right into her and stun her. That would be an awesome Exhaustion perk.
On the flip side, let Killers actually be Killers instead of priests. Who cares about sacrificing? Give them more attacks than just their ability and M1. The further we move away from this indirect cat/mouse game of looping, vaults, and perks, into more primal reactions of fight/flight/freeze (right now we're lacking in the fight department) the better.
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I totally agree. I compare what they've come up once they got the snowball rolling (Huntress, Spirit, Legion bachstories) and you can see they're really hitting their stride.
I think early on before they had the resources to take a moment to breath and consider where they wanted this thing to go they had to simply make do with what they had. They didn't have time to develop interesting stories or characters. That's why we have the "Wraith", who isn't really a wraith, just called that. He worked at a truckyard until one day he didn't, and then he got a magical bell and turned into a monstrous killer. WHAT.
Also Nurse, who teleports around. because yeah, nurses totally teleport. Or knockoff Leatherface, made all the more redundant by the fact the game took off and they got permission to use the real iconic chainsaw killer. It's pretty clear they didn't have vision back then: they needed to focus on other things.
But yeah, judging by the improvements (Such as Legion/Jeff being linked in their lore, as well as the map) they are improving. I hope they find a cheap way to introduce more lore and character development, such as webcomics or even short stories. Something to give us more reason to care about these character, if we care, we'll be invested and possibly feel afraid in-game because we know of the implications. As it is, we're just empty avatars running around, for the most part. There is so much untapped potential!
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I'm not a Survivor main by choice, my internet is literally too slow to play Killer.
Personally, I hate hooks. I hate getting camped, I hate being AFK on the hook doing nothing, I hate mashing space in the 2nd phase even more, and I hate being removed from the hook only to be put back on it instantly because of tunneling. And the worst part is it makes sense: Of couse they should go for the person downed in one hit right next to the hook, of course they should go for the person already hooked to accelerate making it a 3v1, I can't even be angry at the "tunnel" because the game is set up that way. It just absolutely sucks to be that person.
I also don't think it's fun for the Killer, who is so limited by the lame entity. Like, let them kill, let them do their thing. These weird hook phases are too "gamey". Moris should play a bigger role instead of just being occasional offerings.
I long for a game mode that is faster-paced, with no hooks, but more Moris. If you get a bad game, bad teammates die quick, no problem the next game has already begun. More intensity.
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@Vietfox said:
Please remove "play as killer" option from the game.Would anyone in your life describe anything you've ever said or done as "useful"? I don't think so
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I don't think so. Often times I was mending at 1% because I tried to get away from Legion, and he found me again. He was feet from me but I had Dead Hard so I thought I'd be okay... Nope. The instant I stopped mending i went down. It's broken. No counterplay
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Good job compiling all of this but I didn't read the whole thing, I stopped halfway through. I get the sense they're going for the "mystery box" approach, as in, they have no clue ######### they're doing they're just adding crazy stuff in to generate discussion and personal interpretation until they hear something they think is cool. Way too many "Who knows?" and "Sounds cool! Interesting theory" and "The answer is mysterious and confusing, that's all we can say..." responses in there for me to take anything seriously. I hope they get a more focused idea, like they said they have a skeleton or "core" idea, it just needs to be fleshed out more. I honestly laughed hearing the Wailing Bell was just a random gift given to the "Wraith".
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Hmm I'm not really sure what you're talking about, that's a strange personal experience.
Sexy David isn't easy to hide with so he's drawing attention to himself because he's so visible (also eye candy) which is good for other survivors because he's taking the heat.
With Dead Hard it helps if he's injured so he's less afraid of a hit than others.
And he also has WGLF so if anything David is going to be the most zealous rescuer of all the survivors. "His few friends deserve the best protection" after all.
Maybe you've had a bad few experiences, but as a Shirtless David who loves being altruistic I can't say I fit the bill. Everything about him suggests altruism/being a hero, I feel Nea, Jake, maybe Dwight would be the least likely to risk themselves for others.
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When I get mori'd the next thing I see is my character running through the fog just like a sacrifice or escape.
By the way, I don't like the idea of being killed/sacrificed over and over until you're a husk and thrown into the void. Like, that's hopeless. There needs to be light at the end of the tunnel, that would make lore more compelling, otherwise it's just a huge downer for me.
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I think it's obvious to anyone who is willing to give credit where it's due that they are really improving their lore!
I look at the early designs and think they're so shallow: like we get it you're scary monsters. And that nurse is teleporting for some reason, and that guy who worked at a junkyard has a magical bell that turns him invisible... mmkay. W/e I guess.
But other killers like the Spirit and Huntress have truly compelling lore where you sympathize with/pity them and understand why they've turned into killers. Legion and Jeff being connected is yet another step in the right direction when it comes to lore, I can't wait to see their next original creation they're getting really good at it.
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I mean when I'm tired (IRL) I like to stand still or walk slowly or lie/sit down to recover faster.
Crouching is like the opposite of that, that's not a natural/comfortable position to move in. No way that would make sense. That would tire me out more than normal walking.
Edit: Oh, unless you mean crouching and not moving. Yes that makes sense. I thought you meant crouching+moving.
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You're getting coal for Christmas.
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Personally I would like it if they added baseline advantages/disadvantages to playing certain survivors. For those worrying this will make tier lists and "optimal" survivors, relax, these will be very very VERY small tweaks, almost unnoticeable, just enough to differentiate the survivors. And it's not like we don't already have an optimal survivor already: Claudette. Small, and dark, makes her the hardest to see whereas other survivors (David, is a good example) are impossible to hide with. So, if anything this will encourage diversity.
I think it would be great if certain survivors were "categorized" into different classes with different specialities.
Some Survivors would focus on stealth, like Jake Park and Nea. Their tracks would disappear slightly faster.
Other would be bruisers, like David or Bill. If they stun you with a pallet it's a slightly longer stun, and/or they unhook others faster with their strength.
Others would be technical, like Claudette or Feng or Dwight. Their skill checks would be more often easier instead of instantly as soon as the rotation begins.So, ideally these advantages would be so minor they wouldn't make or break anything, but someone playing David wouldn't wonder why Claudette is just as athletic as he is.
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@Dehitay said:
Legion has got to be the least evil of killers. Their lore was clearly a rushed effort cause if you think of how the entity operates, it makes absolutely no sense for it to take them into the fog. They killed all of one person and it was because they a mistake, not cause they were looking for a kill. Joe and Susie didn't even really want to do it. Julie's intentions were more of a do it for Frank mentality than a bloodlust. Frank is the only one who I would even consider worthy of the entity's consideration, but it took them all for reasons that don't fit the entity's mentality.I think the idea that anyone has that evil in them, that anyone can fall from grace and embrace their dark side is very compelling (and disturbing) lore. When I see things like the Trapper that are so obviously monstrous, it's ironically less scary because that's so obviously a monster it's like "yeah I get it you're bad" but when you understand how heedless and desperate people can get, the Legion is much scarier because it's reflective of our actual reality.
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@Rebel_Raven said:
No, the entity is a lovecraftian being. Or maybe like IT, or the Turtle from the Steven King works.The mind of the entity is alien, and would likely drive anyone who could understand it completely insane.
Who says it is alien? It seems pretty relate able to me, like, I understand everything I see. Nothing out of this world, nothing unfathomable.
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@SadCyclops said:
based on that all the game occurs during night and the game is literally called dead by daylight:yes.
im 100% sure that if there will ever be a video or sth similar to end the dbd lore, it will be a huge and beautiful sunrise, shining over the maps, ending the survivors suffering and maybe - yeah just maybe - destroying the entitiy
Is dead by daylight a pun meaning "You'll be dead before the dawn comes" or "The daylight will be your end"? Like who is it directed at, killer, survivor, both? Or is it just a nice title with alliteration?
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The person above me can only communicate with memes apparently
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I live rurally on the edge of internet connectivity so I may be stuck with this connection, and we're not slated for an upgrade for another 2 years (Then I will enjoy high-speed internet like all you modern people!)
Download Speed: 1.6 MBPS (this is wired, all focus going to one place)
Upload Speed: 0.29 MBPS
ISP: MTSThe only other option for Internet is "Xplorenet" which hosts speeds up to 25 MBPS (Currently plan advertises it goes up to 5, but like I said it's 1.5 in actuality) but data is capped on that plan and much mor expensive, so I'm not sure if it's the right choice.
I've played games like MOBAs with no issue, and Survivor works well enough, that's why I'm so confused.
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I'm wondering: What is your usual ping while playing? My internet speed is 1.5 Mbps MAX so maybe this is on my end. I'm able to play MOBA where 0.75 can feel like an eternity without feeling laggy, and survivor works well enough.
Please confirm: When you're the Killer, you're "hosting" the match, meaning everyone relies on your internet. Could that be why it's impossible for me to play as Killer, but not Survivor?
If so, I'll stop trying to play Killer at least, since I know the problem is on my end.
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It's only when I play Killer, no isues as survivor.
Thank you for at least giving me more stuff to try, thank you.