Seraphor
Seraphor
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I would personally get rid of all the different item tiers, and just have base items.
Brown Medkit, Brown Toolbox, Brown Flashlight, etc. Then you put all of the modifiers onto the add ons.
This would reflect the killers position a lot better, after all the killer gets two add ons, and cannot change their base power.
The add ons could still be buffed to compensate for this, but crucially the ability to triple-stack certain attributes would be removed, such as using a faster-healing Med kit with two add ons that increase healing speed. Instead, you get a base medkit, and can only increase the speed via equipping two add ons, which leaves you short of multiple charges.
This would make for a system that's much easier to balance, as you have fewer variable combinations to account for.
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@Ithiria said:
The DC penalty is sorted into levels that grow when you DC more and more, IIRC the progression is 1 minute -> 5 minutes -> 15 -> 30 -> higher capping at 48 hours, and levels increase after you've DCed 2 times. The level drops by 1 every 48 hours.
Basically what I'm saying is that it's only 30 minutes if you're DCing a lot, in which case, you probably shouldn't be playing the game because either your temper or internet are too unstable for DBD.
Just to add, the DC penalty decay is somewhere between 24 and 48 hours not 48 hours precisely. This is so players can't calculate when it happens and know when they can or can't DC without penalty.
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Maybe you haven't been around as long, but someone suggests splitting the game into two modes 'casual' and 'competitive' on roughly a monthly basis, and it never starts being a good idea.
No killers would choose to play against SWF if they had the option. No survivors would choose to play solo only mode if they had the choice (because they'd only get killers who are afraid of SWF). Your suggested take (which is a little different from the usual suggestion I have to admit) at face value, would see massive survivor queues in 'casual' with virtually no killers, and massive killer queues in 'competitive' with virtually no survivors.
Typically, a 'competitive' mode comes with several restrictions. These would likely include add on and item restrictions, maybe a perk cost system, definitely no offerings, and what would be the reward for this? A ranking score?
Plus, a typical 'competitive' mode would likely be populated only with SWFs, after all they're the survivors who play competitively. You definitely couldn't exclude SWF from competitive mode, because just as they did before SWF was introduced players would simply lobby hop until they ended up together and undermine the system. You simply couldn't design a competitive mode to be solo-only if there was any incentive for survivors to succeed in that mode, players will take any advantage they can get.
Matchmaking would be a huge point of contention for competitive mode, because the loose matchmaking we have right now is only suitable for a casual game. It's flat out impossible to design a tight MMR system for this game because the win condition is so undefined and difficult to tie to player skill.
Besides, what would the point of equalising solo and SWF via information buffs like this be, if solo and SWF were separated into two different modes anyway?
The whole point of these buffs is to close the gap between solo and SWF, and when that's done, there will be no need for your two game modes.
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@Krazzik said:
BBQ doesn't stop tunneling, you can just tunnel someone out and then hook everyone else.
Tunnelling happened a lot less before the change to BBQ. You can attribute it to any number of the perk changes in patch 6.1, but BBQ was likely a big part of it.
Many have cited that the way they played has changed without BBQ, because it served as it's own separate win condition. Many killers would be 'content' with a non-4K result if it meant they got their 4 stacks of BBQ.
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I don't know why The Clown existing should have any baring on Pennywise.
Hillbilly and Cannibal
Spirit and Onryo
These are more similar to each other than Clown and Pennywise would ever be. One is a circus themed serial killer, the other is a trans-dimensional embodiment of fear itself.
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I believe it's because they changed it for PC because they thought 100 was too much, but Sony don't allow you to change the parameters of Trophies, so it stayed.
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356845#Comment_3356845
the difficulty in this game comes from either being a solo a survivor or as a killer facing a swf.
the problem with the game balance is the swf.
Which is why survivor is getting these sort of buffs.... what's you're point exactly?
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356690#Comment_3356690
i would play competitive mode.
casual mode is to have fun. not win games. its not supposed to be balanced.
Who are you going to play against?
All the easy opponents will be on casual. You'll be waiting hours for a lobby on competitive.
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
I would agree your changes OP if they added a separate mode.
A casual mode and a "competitive" mode would be good for the game I think.
Casual mode you get the UI and and the ability to see perks.
Competitive mode is the true DbD experience with Solo Q only and none of the new HUD stuff.
OFC this means double the work for BHVR so we are unlikely to see it happen.
Your casual mode would become competitive mode, and nobody would play competitive mode.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355978#Comment_3355978
Keep that same energy if they buff killers in the future to compensate for these "changes"
They absolutely should.
Don't mistake support for QoL survivor buffs for one-sided survivor-main bias.
Survivor should get buffs that close the gap between solo and SWFn and in return, killers should get buffs of a similar level to bring them up to the same level.
For example; individual survivor hook counters, and an FoV slider (aka basekit Shadowborn) are exactly the sort of killer QoL upgrades that could go with this.
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@jesterkind said:
Depending on context, the second two can be.
There's not really any benefit to hitting people on hooks, so, I don't think anyone would call that a strat per se.
It cancels the sound of the survivors scream when they get hooked. I do it every time I hook a Feng, because I prefer it when my ears aren't bleeding.
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@Quietus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356213#Comment_3356213
Well, Lethal Pursuer is only extending the aura reading for 3 seconds. You get the same effect with just Nowhere To Hide, you just have a 5 second window instead.
I wouldn't call it broken, just OP.
On the vast majority of killers this is inconsequential. Really only Nurse and Blight can capitalise on this... which is all the more reason why the aura reading range should probably be locked on the generator instead of the killer.
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@toxik_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355975#Comment_3355975
I see your point. I guess I just haven't had the same experience with those map offerings. When I play the map offerings are still super common for some reason rn, but they are all very random maps. Like one match it's ormand, and then the next it's Midwitch then the next is haddonfield yk.
Indeed. I played some killer games today, and three of them involved map offerings played by the survivors. One was Ormond (tough Dredge game, 2K), one was MacMillan (neither here nor there) and one was RPD (I trashed them with all-seeing Ghostface). Ironically, the games that didn't involve map offerings included three games on Swamp maps as Dredge, which were awful.
@Snowflake_Syndrome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/366017/the-map-offering-madness-needs-to-stop
Sacrificial Ward doesn't even work properly right now. The other day I uses one and someone thru out a Game map offering and it still sent us to the Game map.
That doesn't mean the Sacrificial Ward didn't work. All Sacrificial Ward does is invalidate the map offerings played. It doesn't reverse those offerings and make those maps less likely to be drawn.
This means that you can invalidate the Game map offering, but still end up on the Game map by random chance, and this is entirely in-keeping with the design of the Sacrificial Ward offering.
If anything, this is more evidence about how inconsequential map offerings are. They didn't even need to play their map offering, they were going to the Game anyway.
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@Blueberry said:
I don’t see an issue with map offerings, the issue is map balance. If maps were better balanced these wouldn’t be a problem.
This is true, and map balance can be objectively measured, by kill rates.
Eyrie was reworked because it had a significantly lower kill rate than other maps. While we don't have this data publicly, I'm sure BHVR would continue this trend if another map was significantly out of range of the others.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355272#Comment_3355272
No, but when RNG sends you to a certain map, chances are pretty high that the survivors havnt prepared their builds for it. Running into Haddonfield or The Game on RNG felts radically different then on a group that came prepared for that.
Thats why I take a map offering as the indication to take the boxing gloves off from the first second and play as hard and unpleasant as I can. This way there are sometimes casulties and innocent bystanders or peeps who just wanted to play something else "then the same 4 maps during this event. Duh." and I am sorry for that, but I am not going to roll over and let the 9/10 bullies have their way.
Thing is, when a SWF group with coordinated perks and items and voice comms takes you to a specific map... did you lose because they took you to said map? Or did you lose because it was a coordinated SWF on voice comms?
I think people place far too much weight on the influence maps have in this game. All maps are viable for either side. I've won and lost as each role on every map by now, and I've both lost to and beaten survivor groups who have played map offerings.
I'm sure individual players do better or worse on certain maps. I know some people hate RPD, but now I know my way around it, I tend to do pretty well on that map, whether I'm playing Survivor OR Killer.
It's not a game making or breaking issue. It's just one extra tick that could push the game slightly in favour of one side or the other, but is by no means a dead to rights win for them. I'd say it's on par with a Petrified Oak or a Coin/Reagent offering. Which is exactly what it is, an offering. It should give you a small advantage, because you're using your offering slot for it.
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I think showing other survivor perks in the match is the next no brainer.
Specifically in the match and not the lobby though. To avoid lobby dodging, and so that survivors still have to actively seek out this information by opening the options menu.
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Ormond and Eyrie aren't even bad maps for killers anymore...
What do you do when you end up on these maps without an offering? Do you give up then?
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None are perfect, but I think Demogorgon is fairly close.
Oni and Pyramid Head maybe too.
Then the earliest killers like Billy, Wraith and Huntress are decently balanced for their respective roles.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355177#Comment_3355177
Any good killer will break off chase from a good survivor, and go after weaker prey.
If you chase someone too long, that's not looping fault, that's your own fault.
So then what do you want?
If looping is the only thing you enjoy, but you don't want the killer to chase you?
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@Cassiopeiae said:
I will never understand why people play killer just to -> not want to chase = actually play the game. <-
Like, go play another game, then.
Because however long you want to loop the killer as a survivor, the killer can only afford to loop you for 1/8th of that time, or they lose the game.
Anything more than about 30-45 seconds per chase is a lost game. Killer is literally based around making chases as short as possible.
The killer has four survivors to chase and loop 2-3 times each. You need to occupy yourself with something else for the 75% of the time you're not the target.
If all you want to do is loop the killer for 5 minutes, you go play another game then.
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@Jejune said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355102#Comment_3355102
I had 100% of his body in view.
Before or after you were Exposed?
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Once you get Exposed, you're unable to reveal him.
Before you got Exposed, just bad luck, bad placement, quirky LoS obstructions. Remember you need to be able to see most of GF's body. If he's crouching or leaning, that makes it very difficult, and the smallest obstacle could make the difference.
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@Emoba said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354505#Comment_3354505
That would have been even worse.
Indeed, killers would choose to always go after the unhooked survivor, just in case the rescuer has this perk, because it would mean any effort chasing them would end up wasted.
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I don't understand how this perk ever made it to the PTB in the state it was in. It didn't need to be tested in the PTB to understand it's incredibly unhealthy pro-tunnelling effect. It didn't even need to be alpha tested in house. The person designing it should have immediately realised and scribbled out their notes before they got anywhere close to showing anyone else, and the fact that they didn't is incredibly troubling for the future of perk design for DBD, it's just sheer incompetence and these people have no place working on DBD.
The fact that some players are defending this is insane.
This would be like designing a perk that decreases killers attack cooldown while within 32m of a hook and persists for 30s after unhooking, and arguing that most killers, out of the goodness of their heart, will choose to target the unhooking survivor instead of the unhooked survivor.
How about killers get a perk that reveals the aura of an unhooked survivor for 30s, just so killers know to avoid that survivor...
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The intended playstyle is assuming survivors are bots who will mindlessly stand in the Expose zone long enough to get Exposed.
I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt and say they simply didn't foresee how this power would have been used. But really, most people cottoned on the moment they understood her power, let alone having tested it.
Also if anyone at BHVR can design a perk like Background Player and not instantly understand it's tunnelling potential, it's hard to hold out hope for the future of perk design.
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I would sooner take literally any other miniature before I even looked at a Funko Pop. I've never understood the appeal. They look terrible.
I'm doubly disappointed though, because as I began to read the sentence a glimmer of hope sparked inside me that they had decided to delay the next chapter.
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Feng and Clown. These two trigger me so much. Feng's scream and Clowns whole wheezing coughing thing.
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@Katzengott said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354182#Comment_3354182
And you think kills is a good indicator for skill? Couldn't it just be a killer hard camping and tunneling 1 surv out early, than another one and the third one with NOED? Aren't you looking just for stats? And isn't the problem that stats don't tell you anything what really happend in a match? What do you think is more fun for survs, a killer going for kills or hooks?
That's why i'm still thinking MMR at least should be based on Emblems. The emblem system wasn't perfect, just needed some tweeks. Matchmaking just based on kills and escapes forces both sides into using meta and to play very unfun against the other side when you reached a certain point in current MMR.
No. Kills are a good indicator of who can kill more often. You know, the actual win condition of the game.
I'll repeat, you do not want MMR attached to emblems.
@Seraphor said:
Pips are not entirely connected to the outcome of a match.
You can perform well over the course of the game, scoring all the BP in each category, but then one mistake at the end costs you the game.
You don't want pips tied to MMR. You don't want to perform well, still lose, and have the game recognise that as a win and move you up towards tougher games where you have an even lower chance of winning.
The win condition of this game is not meritocratic, it's not based on cumulative point scoring. The winner isn't the player with the highest score, the winner is who lives/kills. Therefore MMR has to be based on who lives/kills.
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@shalo said:
This is totally fine for a reward system like emblems/grades, but it's very bad when it comes to matchmaking.
I heard there was a game developer that used that "very bad" system for matchmaking for years, unbelievable, right?
Yes and it was awful, but rose-tinted glasses...
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354195#Comment_3354195
I'm of the opinion healthier gameplay was more incentivized under Emblems due to the factors I mentioned above but the matches were probably more lopsided than they are now. I started shortly before the switch to MMR so I can't comment that much on what it looked like before MMR but, from a previous thread I made, the majority of people said their matches felt fairer overall.
That might be different now as I think the MMR cap was 1900 then and it's 1600 now. I know @ScottJund mentioned in a video he thinks this is practically old red ranks if I remember correctly. Anyway, I'm kind of curious again now to see if the feeling that matches are fairer than under old red ranks is still widely felt.
Healthier gameplay is still incentivised under the Emblem system. It's still there, the same as it always was.
There is no incentive to raising your MMR.
When will people get this into their heads?
It's supposed to be a hidden metric working in the background to pair players up with others who have a more or less equal chance of escaping/killing. It's not skill based, it's kill based.
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Why would I want to waste a perk slot when I can just flush out the flashlight user hiding behind the corner, or face a wall?
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Pips are not entirely connected to the outcome of a match.
You can perform well over the course of the game, scoring all the BP in each category, but then one mistake at the end costs you the game.
You don't want pips tied to MMR. You don't want to perform well, still lose, and have the game recognise that as a win and move you up towards tougher games where you have an even lower chance of winning.
The win condition of this game is not meritocratic, it's not based on cumulative point scoring. The winner isn't the player with the highest score, the winner is who lives/kills. Therefore MMR has to be based on who lives/kills.
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You can throw in Candyman > Artist to the pattern too.
That said, jumping to "deals the fell through" is a little too much of a reach.
We know that they work on multiple concept at a time, sometimes just as a 'proof of concept' kinda thing. In a dev interview they mentioned how they have a Pennywise killer built that they're particularly pleased with. I doubt they would have mentioned this if there ws actually any deal for Pennywise in the pipeline.
So,they could have had this Predator killer concept already built, just for fun. When brainstorming new original killers, they already had this concept built so repurposing it for an original one would be a decent way to cut a few corners.
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Poses a good question about the use of Haunted grounds though. Does this perk deserve a rework, now that Hex totems general efficacy has changed in the climate of Boons?
Perhaps, instead of Haunted Grounds lighting two totems, it should instead light one totem, but proc Exposed when any Hex totem is cleansed/blessed.
This would make Haunted Grounds a decent Hex defending perk. If you say have Haunted + Devour, survivors first Hex cleansed would be guaranteed to cause Exposed. If they cleansed Devour first, you'd still have one remaining Haunted totem, even if the survivors knew or suspected it to be Haunted, it would either punish or deny them a totem.
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@gilgamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353291#Comment_3353291
It would also burn the tokens really quickly though
This is true, but this just leads me to believe it would end up with a situation that irritates all parties.
Killers like Legion would fail their first use of their power, arguably the most crucial one, costing them the first gen. Meanwhile survivors running Distortion have their entire perk deleted within the first 30s/1m of the game.
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Killer Instinct is integral to many killer powers. So no, it can't be blocked by survivors.
You would completely invalidate Legion this way. Dead killer.
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Half the playerbase want chill killers who dick about and farm BP.
Half the playerbase want no-nonsense tryhard killers who just kill you and get it over with.
The reason why everyone is so unhappy is these people end up in the same lobby.
Congratulations, you just ruined each others game. Your contribution was stubbornness though, and you could have saved yourself some time if you'd just let Nancy pick you up.
And FYI, even the sweatiest killers, playing like this, maximising hooks, can result in the best scores for everyone. When I play killer, I tend to sweat at the start of the game, because this allows me the advantage of controlling the pace of the game and maximising hooks, and I don't yet know the calibre of survivor I'm up against. I can then let survivors score rescues without throwing the game for myself. In the end, whether I let survivors escape or kill everyone, all players end up walking away with massive BP scores.
I have played games like this, with an absolutely 100% intention of letting survivors go. I sweat at the start to secure my lead, intentionally leave the hook to make room for rescues. Try to hook everyone once. But then some smartarse survivor thinks they're going to 'counter my toxicity' by pulling some stupid play that denies me a hook, like giving up or DCing or bodyblocking at the stupidest time, or I suppose holding sprint to prevent their teammates from picking them up. I end up being forced to kill survivors, even when I was planning on letting everyone escape for the BP. Sometimes it's my own fault for overplaying, and no gens have been repaired by the time someone gives up and dies, putting survivors in a no-hope position. But a lot of the time, it's the survivors refusing to play.
I can't tell you this killer was doing the same, but it's a distinct possibility.
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It's absolutely brilliant when paired with DH, as it instantly rescues and puts you straight into 'parry' mode with no net loss of health states.
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@SpaghettiVase said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352550#Comment_3352550
Then they need to stop the "complete in a single trial" BS. Which is also happens to be a challenge the OP is about.
Then it wouldn't be a challenge.
The idea is you try over the course of several games, until you play one in which you complete the challenge.
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It's not intended for every challenge to be guaranteed in one single game, they're challenges.
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Why don't you play killer and find out?
Not condoning camping at 5 gens, but you might understand why less experienced killers do this.
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Why would I want to gimp myself by "improving my performance" with strong killers and catapult my MMR up into nightmare mode, when I can comfortably use M1 killers at my current MMR?
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Killer's design herself is good, weapon is awesome. That mask though... could it be anything other than bejazzled?
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345737#Comment_3345737
Counterpoint: She wasn't fine before the directional audio, that's why they changed her. She also wasn't fine after the directional audio, either, because she's a terrible design for a killer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345738#Comment_3345738
It's not an upcoming potential bug if it was in the game for literally weeks prior to releasing the cosmetic.
Well, when you have an opinion that unreasonable, what is there to argue?
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Killswitches are for gamebreaking bugs.
Spirits power temporarily turning into her old power for a couple of seconds each game isn't game breaking.
She was fine before the directional audio, she's fine for the split second you don't have it and can therefore tell that she's behind a wall too.
This bug is after all giving you more info than you would get without it.
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What if... it's a robot killer, but each of those crates contains an individual robot, and you assume control of one of them at a time and transfer control between them?
I had this power concept but for a kind of "possessed statue" killer.
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They might be salty.
Or they might be trying to do a challenge like "stun the killer with a pallet 3 times in one game."
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@YOURFRIEND said:
I don't get the analogue between the two...... Like at all. Who are the prisoners and who are the guards? Who are the authority figures briefing the participants on what is expected of them? Who are the observers? All of these things play an integral role to the experiment and are either not present in the game or have only a loose comparison between one and the other. It just doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, it's not a completely accurate comparison, but there is definitely a similar kind of 'othering' involved. Particularly with those who primarily only play one side.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345258#Comment_3345258
yes, this is why you often see Boil Over builds in pairs. The killer downs one guy, sees other guy, downs him, now at least one person is guaranteed a wiggle.
Still, a perk that requires two people to go down to get value is pretty bad lol
Throw in Tenacity. While the killer is wiping off their blade, you start crawling AND recovering. You can get 5-10% before the killer's earliest chance to pick you up, and they might fumble for a couple seconds due to you crawling a bit away and give you even more.
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Survivors: The devs are killer sided!
Killers: The devs are survivor sided!
Amorphous non-definable regions of space: The devs are side sided!
The devs: 😭 we just want everyone to be happy!