Seraphor
Seraphor
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@FootMan2893 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3418037#Comment_3418037
Ah. That was MB then. But I still don't think that really counters what the OP was talking about. Saying it gives 10 seconds of regression makes it sound better than it actually is for the purposes of a counter argument. Doesn't sound nearly as convincing when you say "Kicking a gen removes 2.5 seconds of repair time". And I think the argument is fair cause I 100% believe gen regression speeds are way too slow.
There could be room for fine tuning and some buffs sure. But we've seen how oppressive the CoB/OC combo used to be in a 3-gen scenario, that would inflict around a 250% average regression rate, or around 0.625 charges per second.
Thing is, BHVR appear to believe 125% regression is worthy of being a perk in it's own right. Now the CoB nerfs are most likely more to do with how it stacks with OC, and maybe in a vacuum without OC complicating things, 150% would be a more reasonable rate of regression... for a perk.
So basekit regression speed buffs, would have to tow that line between the current 100% (0.25c/s) and the theoretical 150% perk regression (0.375c/s), while still leaving enough room for that 150% to be a significant bonus to warrant being a perk. That's not a lot of room to work with. So I'm not sure it's really worth looking at base regression rates, as it sounds like complicating things far too much for too little pay off.
I could get on board with a bit of a buff to the instant regression though. From 2.5% to maybe 4%? That would be double the time investment for kicking, and inflict around 16 seconds of regression (4 seconds of repairs). Considering that a killer already has 5% instant regression as a base power (Knight's Carnifex gen kicks) this doesn't sound unreasonable.
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@FootMan2893 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417469#Comment_3417469
Um. What the hell is your math? a gen takes 90 seconds to repair. 2.5% is a little over 2 seconds of repair time. To shave off 10 seconds would require 11%, more than an entire eruption proc.
Survivor mains on here gas lighting killers with false info to make them play worse and not complain about it.
10 seconds of REGRESSION
Regression is 0.25 charges per second.
2.5% is roughly 2.5 charges, which would take 10 seconds to regress at 0.25 charges per second.
In less than 2 seconds of action time for kicking the gen, you inflict 2.5% regression, for 10 seconds of equivalent regression time, which is equal to about 2.5 seconds of repair time. This means:
- The time spent kicking the gen is fully reimbursed
- If the survivor taps it and you kick it again, they've lost an immediate 2.5 seconds of repair time.
- You've scored another 10 seconds of equivalent regression time. AKA, the same amount of regression that would be inflicted if that generator regressed for 10 seconds.
Main of the day: Survivor
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417547#Comment_3417547
Ok then, can I get some compensation playing Spirit as well? I suck with her and cannot play her without headphones (neither with them lmao), so surely there should be an accessibility change for people like me as well. What about Shadowborn base kit or a FOV slider? A wider FOV would allow killers to see things they couldn't see before (small buff) however some people get motion sick playing killer without Shadowborn.
Some killers have fainter TRs and Lullabies, which you can easily miss playing the game normally. Switch on the visual TR and that isn't an issue anymore. I'm not saying that the visual TR is a bad thing (I think it's great, actually) but labeling it as purely a quality of life change and not even considering how this might influence the balance of the game is just ridiculous. Reminds me of the survivor HUD, where the devs made the same mistake.
Absolutely. I have always been in favour of a FoV slider.
Spirit is a slightly different issue. Her power IS heavily reliant on sound, and I don't see any way of resolving that without completely changing her power, she literally loses her sight. She will simply have to be a very audio-reliant killer and therefore likely off-limits to those who are hard of hearing. But similarly, there are killers such as Huntress, Nurse and Trickster that I find unplayable due to playing on console. I simply don't play them, there are other killers available.
If this affects game balance on any measurable level (which I'm doubtful is the case), then it's affecting things that should not have been a part of the game balance in the first place. Killers that have quieter terror radii shouldn't be a thing, that shouldn't be something that offers that killer an advantage. If a killer is supposed to be more stealthy, that should be reflected by a smaller terror radius or an undetectable mechanic.
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I actually agree that depipping probably shouldn't be in the game anymore, outside of DCing, where it should stay.
But I'm also glad that you have come to a compromise with BHVR and are allowing them to keep the DC ban system in their own game, that's very generous of you.
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"This is a rank competitive game"
Is it?
Everything would seem to suggest that it's a player-driven creative building game, combined with a FPS dungeon crawler. I don't see how any game that revolves around player creations can be a purely competitive game. Sure it can have a 'high end', which is where ranks come in. But that's a niche subset of the playerbase.
The fact that Accolades give the most rewards, and those Accolades include the options "Fun" and "Artistic" would suggest that player creativity is at least half the concept this game is based around.
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You're not "PROVING" anything dude, you're not "dismantling my arguments" or scoring any internet points. You're trying to stir up ######### due to some form of elitist delusion that everyone else is stupid and only you are intelligent and a pro gamer. Just stop. This elitist gatekeeping isn't going to get you anywhere, you won't be able to excise the 95% of the playerbase who are "filthy casuals" to get your pure pro gamer utopia.
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Heaven forbid I play two games that happen to share a forum.
"My experience" is watching the replays of raids on my outposts and seeing which of my traps actually score the most kills. But of course I'm not "in the top MMR bracket" so my experience is inconsequential.
You're literally trying to tell people what they should find fun, in a social building game. This level of elitism is insane. "All players should be super hardcore raiders and I'm offended that people don't like playing at a serious competitive level all the time. You're all sheeple."
This level of negativity you decided to bring to a topic about accolades, literally a feature about positive player-to-player feedback, is probably the most "DBD" thing to come here yet.
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A higher FoV would be a slight advantage, but it's a slight advantage that is needed in the name of accessibility. Survivors received a similar level of slight advantage in the HUD Action Icons, giving them a greater level of awareness previously only given to SWF on comms. Giving all killers basekit Shadowborn would be no different.
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So a good pair of headphones is also a major buff?
As someone who regularly plays DBD with headphones, the TR isn't hard to discern, and the only time it's ever drowned out by other game sounds, is the sound of a sacrificed survivor being pulled up by the entity.
TR shouldn't be hard to discern, it shouldn't be blocked out by any sounds, including that one. There's no reason why one survivor should be able to hear it better than any other for any reason, whether it's their own gaming set up, or their hearing ability, or their choice of background noise. The Visual Terror Radius is that equaliser.
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417469#Comment_3417469
Except you can't kick it if they are working on it.
2 Survivors on a 90% gen and the Killer literally has 0 power to stop it. Nothing.
That should not happen in a game where the Killer is supposed to be the power role.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417524#Comment_3417524
It's not a nerf. It's a change to make it more fair.
Hit them? Losing a health state is definitely a bigger loss than 2 seconds of repair time.
Hit one, hit them again, and grab the other. If they don't stick around long enough to do that, then you have your window to kick the gen either way.
If a survivor or pair of survivors want to trade multiple health states to finish off a generator that's at ~98% already, that's their choice, and a terrible one in most cases.
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@AMOGUS said:
I find it genuinely funny that people (or should I say "Raider biased" people?) whine about killboxes and probably cheer for how the devs are going to let you abandon bases you don't like (aka can't win easily) instead of fixing their Builder progression systems, restrictive base settings and how they favor bunker bases (Not being able to move the genmat lmao) and lack of ability to handle extreme turtling and speedrunning at the same time, partly caused by waaaay too many things being Builder progression, which are the real reasons for killboxes existing.
Like, it's amazing how so many of the MYM community pretty obviously comes from DBD, they think that Builders should have to come up with 4d chessmaster bases (which are impossible without killboxes because everything is too reactable) to barely get 1 to 2 kills AND that Raiders should easily get the GenMat because "tHeIr TiMe Is ValUaBlE". This level of entitlement, and how the devs are 100% going to go the DBD route for balancing, just lets me know that this game isn't going to last. Or it's going to get yet another unhealthy community for an unhealthy game, which is everything BHVR seems to pump out evidently.
Speaking of DBD, this "killboxes are the only viable option because of speedrunners" tirade sounds a hell of a lot like "camping is the only avenue left for killers because SWF is too strong".
You don't need 30 second wave corrosive cubes hiding 30 incinerators and a path full of pistons in order to secure kills. You can score just as many kills by using minimal traps in smart locations, a simple Impaler/Boltshot combo in my experience can be just as lethal if it's in a spot the raider doesn't expect.
You gain more kills by building an engaging outpost, that makes raiders want to play it. As a builder, you are creating content for other players, that content lives or dies based on how other people like it. You are playing a social game, not a 'death farm simulator'.
What exactly do you expect other players to do if all they get is low-effort killboxes? Just hand over dozens of free deaths? "Excuse me survivors, you're supposed to get on my hook and stay there."
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Gen tapping was already addressed when gen kicks were given a 2.5% instant regression effect. If a survivor taps a gen, kick it again to apply another 2.5% instant regression, it becomes their loss.
2.5% regression is equivalent to 10 seconds of regression time.
Gen tapping was only beneficial to survivors in the context of old Call of Brine or Overcharge where gens would regress rapidly if left to regress. But now with those perks neutered, the basic gen kick is the superior tool.
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As I mention in my post below, Healing and Regression nerfs go hand-in-hand. The idea that "nerfing survivors means they genrush harder which is worse for killers" is kinda insane, survivor nerfs are not killer nerfs, they're survivor nerfs, and vice versa. You can't nerf survivors and then buff killers in response to those survivor nerfs.
@Seraphor said:
- This game has a terrible problem with power creep. Each side has been getting more effective, more efficient tools with which to complete their objectives or hinder their opponents, and it makes the 'meta' even more oppressive against the non-meta. (for example, Circle of Healing wasn't always in the game, and before it was, Inner Healing was a good healing perk) That's why balance changes have to be nerfs at this point.
- Both killer and survivor have seen their most meta, most used perks nerfed. Survivors had Circle of Healing and Dead Hard, Killers had Call of Brine, Overcharge and Pain Res. None of these are unique options, survivors have other healing and exhaustion perks, killers have other regression perks, only the most oppressive were nerfed and there are plenty of entirely valid options remaining. Do not be a slave to the meta.
- Regression and Healing are complimentary powers, each undoing your opponents progress in their primary objective. By nerfing both in the same patch, you maintain a sense of balance and it shouldn't result in an unwarranted corrective response from either side. What you lose in regression capability is made up by survivors losing the same in healing capability. Sadly, players don't understand this, and both sides are furious that 'they' have been nerfed, completely ignoring the fact that their opponents have also been equally reigned in. Worse, they appear to see equal nerfs to their opponents as an additional threat to them, which is completely irrational.
- Killers are terrified that a nerf to healing means survivors will genrush, which should require greater regression capability.
- Survivors are terrified that a nerf to regression means killers will tunnel, which should require greater healing capability.
- Both are 'protesting' these changes by doing exactly this, instead of just adapting to the changes and playing normally.
- The irony of this fallacy flies over their heads, and the reliance on these meta techniques only feeds further into power creep and imbalance. If either of these actually happened (buff regression in response to nerfed healing or vice versa) it would be ridiculously imbalanced.
If survivors are genuinely neglecting to heal up because of medkit nerfs, which is causing them to genrush more, then you can capitalise on that change in behaviour yourself:
Pressure gens directly. They can't genrush if you're there at the gen, and if you're there at the gen, you pose a significant threat to any injured survivors who are refusing to heal up.
Bring more info perks, this will allow you to find those injured survivors and take advantage of their missing health states.
Develop your 'gamesense', keep a mental note of where survivors are, extrapolate that if the injured survivor was at x 20 seconds ago, then they could now be at y doing z.
Regression perks cannot do all the work for you. You need to play an active role in preventing gen repairs.
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Ideally, the killer should be able to and utilise multiple strategies in a given game, in response to how the survivors play.
Hit and Run has to be a viable option, because 'chases' aren't always a viable option for the killer. While survivors might enjoy the 5 minute chase that completely wastes the killers time, that's not something the killer can afford to indulge in. The killer has to assert pressure on survivors to slow them down in their main objective, in order to have the time to devote to chases. Which means using hit and run, maybe some slugging, in between chases, where most effective.
Healing and recovering from dying exist for a reason, and not solely for regrouping in safety after an unhook. So I'm sorry if you hate having to stop what you're doing to heal up and would love to just run around a jungle gym 500 times, but you have to take part in the former in order to make the latter possible, otherwise the killer is just going to give up and camp.
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The best horror movie of all time?
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Everyone gets at least a Fun providing they didn't make a cheap, low-effort killbox, or intentionally block off or destroy the tombs.
Brutal for those who made me die a lot (which requires that they make me want to play their outpost enough to die a lot, I won't lie sometimes I just get fed up and leave if I feel I'm not getting anywhere)
Ingenious, usually if they have a particularly clever set of traps that really made me think, or something completely new I haven't seen before.
Artistic, if they clearly put a lot of effort into the design.
If I think it deserves more than 2, Brutal and Ingenious trump Fun and Artistic.
Sadly, I don't think this is reciprocated, or perhaps the purpose or even the basic act of giving accolades is still too obtuse for players. I probably receive accolades for about 1/4 of all raids I receive.
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Wish granted, Haemorrhage has been nerfed, but it has also been renamed to Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.
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My ideal chapter will always be Alien, but it probably wouldn't live up to my expectations in terms of killer power.
After that, Candyman, Chucky, Pennywise and maybe Slenderman would be my back up choices, more or less in that order.
I wouldn't mind Vecna, but worry the implementation with Demo Steve and Nancy would be messy.
Walking Dead would be meh, but I guess as a survivor only mid-chapter it would be fine. Likewise for Jason, I just don't care much for him, he's basically just Trapper without the traps, and with no iconic survivor to pair with, I guess he could share a chapter with Walking Dead. Ju-on seems redundant, not sure what else she would bring that Spirit and Sadako don't, and Sadako will always be more iconic.
No FNAF or Jeepers Creeper, these are the only options that would incite a negative response from me.
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The fact that the aura reading range follows the killer isn't itself a problem imo. As already stated, there are a lot of 'silent' info perks like this, and you can't telegraph them all without making them redundant.
However, the issue arises with high mobility killers, and this simply widens the power gap between 'M1' and 'top tier' killers like Nurse and Blight. This isn't something that other 'silent' info perks like Darkness Revealed have to worry about. So in this light, I would be completely on board with changing it to fix on the generator instead of the killer.
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@mustdogen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417197#Comment_3417197
No it actually only slowed down 3.75%(0.25*0.25*60)
which is 3.375secs.
It's not 3.75%, it's 3.75 charges. (the *60 refers to the charges regressed per 60 seconds) Survivors repair at 1c/s so it's a direct 3.75 seconds of slowdown.
60 seconds of base regression removes 15 charges.
60 seconds of CoB regression removes 18.75 charges. There's your 3.75 charge difference.
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@Header said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417197#Comment_3417197
It’s actually only 3.75 seconds
You're right it's 4 seconds (more or less), misremembered as it used to be 16 seconds worth of slowdown at 200%.
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CoB: If the killer succeeds in keeping a survivor off the gen for 60s, then that gen is slowed down by an additional 6 seconds.
In absolute no universe does this pose a 'problem' for survivors. This is less damaging than missing a skill check.
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@NotJared said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3412406#Comment_3412406
Brutals being no fun is a matter of opinion. There's plenty of fun stuff that's not a killbox!
They're difficult at first, but Nine times out of Ten a killbox is negated completely useless by just grappling through the whole room and throwing down a Barrier+Pheonix Pod at the GenMat, then doing the same thing on your way out. Combined with a fully upgraded Ironside suit and Boltshot + Plasma Bow or Arc Barrier, you're nearly unstoppable.
Tailor your loadout to what's in the base, and you'll be able to learn how to overcome anything!
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3412442#Comment_3412442
The solution to Brutals not earning enough prestige points to be upgraded should not be "make easier bases", I should be able to have a chance to prestige my base over one cycle.
It's not that Brutals don't earn as much prestige, they earn just as much prestige as the other difficulties.
Brutals don't get raided. It's a playerbase issue. People don't like raiding Brutal outposts.
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@Oberlin1694 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416792#Comment_3416792
I mean the Mods are very much wrong. They don’t own the license anymore, it’s why they can’t sell Demo, Nancy or Steve, why their perks went universal and why the names, icons and descriptions and quotes were changed. Alongside the ST chapters achievements being completely scrubbed out.
If they made ANY changes to the Demogorgon they could be sued by Netflix for it
Mandy is community manager and is very much a part of the dev team, not just 'a forum mod'.
But I'm sure you know the ins and outs of this particular license agreement better than anyone at BHVR.
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@Sandt21 said:
I'd argue he doesn't need a buff or nerf. Demopuppers is the undisputed most balanced killer in the game
This is true. he doesn't 'need' a buff. It would be nice if he had a couple of tweaks to some add ons, and maybe emerging from a portal was a little more stealthy. However, buffing Demo at this point could be controversial. Giving an advantage to players who already have him unlocked, and robbing players who do not the chance to make use of said buffs.
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This can't be serious.
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@jinx3d said:
he literally cannot get any.
Not true. BHVR mods, including Mandy, have stated several times that Demogorgon is not exempt from balance changes. He won't be getting any new cosmetics or design updates or anything, but they can tweak whatever numbers they like.
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416747#Comment_3416747
If you try to cleanse the portal, Demogorgon will see you doing it, and unless he flew across the entire map, there is no way he won't be able to just walk back to you and smite you down. Plus, that time you spend doing a portal, which is a good while, is time you spend not doing the gen, so he's still getting good stall.
As for baiting Shred—if you start juking to the side instead of running away from him, his movement speed is fast enough that he'll just catch up and hit you point blank, especially if he's running Rat Liver. And if his mechanical skill is so poor that doing even that is too hard, then he'll just exit Shred and hit you normally. That's what makes him a good zoning killer. Same with Pyramid Head or Deathslinger. He doesn't get punished for not committing to a Shred mindgame... well, ever, really.
I mean, you can make up excuses for dying to Trapper as well but...
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416726#Comment_3416726
Both of those are false. Portal cooldown is obscenely short and Shred is one of the easiest abilities to hit mechanically. Its hitbox is huge, and the charge time/movement speed penalties are virtually nonexistent if he wants to zone or do anything noncomittal.
If you start clearing a portal right after he's used his teleport, it's impossible for him to get back through it before you've destroyed it unless using certain add ons. Two survivors working on it makes it impossible flat out.
Shred works in a straight line, you can bait it out and Demo will fly right past you, leaving you unharmed.
This is like complaining about Trapper being too OP.
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Oh look, someone is complaining about Demogorgon again, one of the weakest killers in the game.
- Portals can be destroyed faster than he can teleport to them.
- Shred can be dodged very easily.
The reason you struggle against demo might be because he's so unpopular (because he's not strong, and because he's no longer available) which means the only killers who play him and those who play him a lot, they're Demo mains, they know how to use him very well.
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@Halloulle said:
Assuming that glyph challenges fall into the same category as BP offerings..... I don't think so...? I don't really pay too much attention to BP gained but I can't recall seeing something above 34k in a very long while as survivor. As killer I have cracked the 40k quite a few times and without ever actively trying to play for BP (though there are some killers where it's easier due to how their powers relate to score events).
Glyph challenges fall in the 'bonus' category, so they break the 10K/40K caps. Considering the difficulty in hitting the cap in the Sacrifice category, I'd say it's unlikely you legitimately broke 40K 'quite a few times' unless you employed the use of event offerings or bonus challenges.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416681#Comment_3416681
I haven't really tracked my games BP, so I am not sure I ever had it even as a killer. I know 30k is not an issue tho, can't say same for survivors.
It simply seems weird to me, they increased maximum BP, but it's near impossible to get it, what's the point then?
I don't think hitting 40K was every really the intention, but moreso raising the individual category caps. Instead of being limited to 8K per category, you can acquire up to 10K. When reasons outside of your control can limit you to only gaining BP in one or two categories and reaching that initial 8K cap was very easy depending on the flow of the game.
E.g. not being able to score Altruism because other survivors won't let you heal them, but being the only survivor repairing gens so you have too much Objective BP.
At 8K cap per category, you could score 16,000 between two categories, but now you could score 20,000 doing exactly the same. So your are still getting significantly more BP than you would have.
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Getting 40K as killer isn't really easy either. You can get close to 40K very easily as killer, but in order to hit 40K, you need to score all 12 hooks and have two of those during the end game collapse... That's not easy, and if you're in EGC, you're not likely to score those last two hooks.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416574#Comment_3416574
Here’s an easy answer: if you have LOS of hook, and by that I mean you can see the survivor’s body loaded in, you are proxy camping. You’re proximate to the hook. If you cannot see the hook, meaning you’ve moved so far from the hook if the survivor is saved you just see the bubble, you’re not proxy camping.
If you have sight of the killer and the hooked survivor, then you cannot go for the rescue, otherwise you're forcing the killer to proxy camp. You are proximate to the hook, and are in fact proxy-rescuing. You must wait until the killer has crossed the map before approaching the hook.
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ET would be the survivor obviously.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416340#Comment_3416340
So rolling handicaps is something I made a thread on a while ago. Basically the idea is game balance shifts as thevgame progresses. Tracking hook stages, gen progress and survivors alive as the metrics. If game is in surv's favour then gen repair speeds slow down and killer gain movement speed and maybe action speed buff, if game is in killer's favour then gen repair speeds increase and killer's move speed is nerfed a little. Properly balanced it could make the game a lot more enjoyable since most games are absolute landslides and it'd help mitigate that.
Universal vc would be better imo, it's not so much an opt in as a you need to log into discord and make a channel. Basekit vc would be utilised by a lot of players and be very useful for lower mmr teams to have some degree of coordination.
Ok, so I've suggested something similar before in relation to gen speeds, basically as a balancing mechanic to lessen the effect of snowballing. Not sure it should apply to killer speeds though, but I would love for more killer perks that conditionally affect movement speed.
VC is a bad idea for DBD. It's not difficult to use already, if you really want to use VC then you can find groups to play with and chat via Discord. Meanwhile many players do not want to use VC, because they enjoy playing solo, because they don't want to be subjected to verbal abuse or irritated by random noises or other survivors playing music down the mic, or simply because they can't focus on the game sounds while someone is talking, etc. Not wanting to use VC is an entirely valid choice and players shouldn't be pressured into using it.
VC offers a significant advantage, by making it the default and an 'opt out' system, you are expecting survivors to use it, and not using it would be considered a hindrance to your team. This would result in the exclusion of non-VC'ers through lobby dodging or in-game sandbagging, it would also affect game balance, making VC'er survivors more effective than non-VC'ers. Kill rates in general would fall with more people using VC, which would result in killer buffs, which would further adversely affect non-VC'ers, widening the gap between Solo survivors and SWF/VC'ers.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416329#Comment_3416329
This is why I've made the suggestions at the bottom of my post, if you'd cared to read that far. Vc wouldn't benefit survs because the alteady have it, rolling handicaps would actively nerf swf a bit while helping new/solo q survs and improving endgame for lone survs wouldn't benefit swfs because they never reach that point.
More tutorials with different killer bots wouldn't be a bad thing, but they wouldn't be mandatory, and it would still be impractical to presume every new player will have played them all. Good option for those who want to use them though.
You haven't really explained what 'rolling handicaps' are.
Built in voice chat is a whole other topic with significant issues and implications for the game. It's fine the way it is as an 'opt in' system. Those who want to use it and are playing with friends can do so, and those who want to go it alone and persevere don't have to be pressured into using it.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416299#Comment_3416299
See i can accept losses. I'm not expecting to escape games all the time. But going on 10+ death streaks is nothing unusual and that just isnt fun. Souls like games are designed for people who like an experience akin to repeatedly bashing their heads against a brick wall. Multiplayer games are not meant to be like that. It's not a pleasant experience. Like one escape in 5 matches would be fine but game balance and mmr doesn't work that way unless you have a dedicated swf with all good players. Just like I find constantly winning as killer extremely dull.
Due to the asymmetrical format, if you were to rectify this by making survivor 'easier' for newbies, you would inadvertently make killer harder for higher levels of skill. The small advantage offered to inexperienced and uncoordinated survivors, would be utterly devastating in the hands of experienced coordinated survivor teams. What the killer makes up for in experience, survivors make up for multiplied by four.
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@TerraEsram said:
Alien
The Xenomorph, Everyone want it in this game but... The "power" of this creature seems to rely on the vent system... Or making a vent system in an open map like coldwind or like... 90% of the map from this game seems... Not possible? And if he create is own vent... It's more like Demopuppy..
I wouldn't have though of vents as being an integral part of the Xenomorphs MO. They're used because they happen to be there, on the spaceships the movies are set on, but generally they're just a stealthy assassin archetype.
That said, I wouldn't want Alien to just be another Demogorgon. If they bring this to DBD, it would have to be something quite ingenious and bring something new to the game in order to pay off.
To me, the USP of Alien is it's lifecycle. That's what it's most revered for, it's well-thought-out insect-like development mechanisms that give it multiple forms of inciting terror. The facehugger invoking arachnophobic feelings, the chestburster with fears of infection and impregnation, and then the final monster and the fear of being hunted by an unfeeling, instinctual predator.
I came up with a concept a while back, for something completely different to any killer we have, at least in terms of power set up and power strength in endgame. But loosely based on Myers format of powering up to become OP later on.
@Seraphor said:
By no means the first Xenomorph concept, but from what I’ve seen I think it’s the first Xenomorph concept that’s as unique as this. (mentioned in a recent topic, but I thought I'd refine it a bit and post it in it's entirety)
Rather than spawning in as a fully grown Xenomorph, you spawn at the very beginning of the Xenomorph lifecycle, and have to progress through each stage, almost like Myers tiering up. This allows for a relatively non-threatening early game, which makes room for a more lethal killer concept to take over in the mid-game.
This makes for a rather unique gameplay loop, and a unique killer concept in general. You have the suspense of a stealth killer in the first phase, further suspense and/or a reprieve for survivors in the second phase, you then have the ‘counter’ third phase in which the killer must evade the survivors, swapping the roles, and then finally you have your main killer, the perfect organism.
I remind you all this is just for fun, and individual values are not a make or break thing for this entirely hypothetical concept. By all means point out flaws, but there’s no need for “x seconds is so OP!” and the like.
Spawn: Ovomorph
Your spawn in animation is the ovomorph, or the egg, hatching with a Facehugger emerging from it. The game starts with five evenly spaced ovomorphs on the map, and you emerge from the one furthest away from the survivors as a Facehugger.
Phase 1: Facehugger
This phase plays much like Victor, you scurry around at 6m/s with a low FoV and no terror radius, accompanied by a lullaby of scurrying/scratching sounds. You cannot see scratch marks, but you can see auras and killer instinct when applicable. Your goal is to latch onto a survivor, you cannot latch on to a survivor in the deepwound state, and being stunned by a pallet causes you to respawn from the furthest ovomorph. Once attached, you have a skill check prompt like a survivor’s wiggle skill checks, meanwhile the survivor suffers from Blindness and Incapacitated and can attempt to remove you much like Victor, this action takes 14 seconds. You need to fill the bar to complete your implantation. If you fail to fill the bar fast enough, the survivor can pull you off and stomp on you. This action injures the survivor and puts them into deepwound, and you respawn from the furthest ovomorph. If successfully implanted, you progress to the Larval phase.
Phase 2: Larval
This is the most passive phase of the xenomorph cycle. You simply follow the implanted survivor around like a spectator, with a graphic on screen of a gestating larva. You also gain your ‘gestation’ meter which will remain for the next three phases. While this is happening, a separate 45 second timer is counting down, visible on the survivor’s portrait, which only you the killer can see. You will occasionally get skill checks like a survivor healing/repairing, hitting a skill check increases the gestation meter by 3% and decreases the survivor’s timer by 1s, hitting a great skill check will increase the gestation meter by 5% and cause the survivor to scream and interrupt their action. Survivors interacting with objectives will speed up this process, and add-ons can adjust the duration. Crucially, a survivor may not know if you successfully impregnated them, unless you hit a great skill check or you have add ons that inflict a status while impregnated. Meanwhile you get to see everything that survivor is doing, such as placing boons, which generator they’re working on, etc. Once the timer has completed, you erupt from the survivor as a Chestburster. This event interrupts the survivor’s action and puts them into the dying state, it also applies one entire hook state automatically. If this occurs to a survivor on death hook, a unique mori animation is carried out.
Phase 3: Chestburster
As a Chestburster, you are vulnerable. 5 seconds after emerging from the survivor, survivors are able to stomp on you, but this will place them into deepwound. If they do so, you respawn from the furthest ovomorph as a Facehugger and begin your cycle anew. Your goal is to evade the survivors, you move at 6m/s and have no terror radius, but you do have a lullaby. Once you are at least 32 meters away from a survivor, you gain the prompt to ‘complete gestation’. Hold down the secondary action button while stationary to increase the gestation meter, the default duration of which is 60 seconds, but will have retained any progress from successful skill checks during the Larval phase. You gain killer instinct at a range of 24m while in this phase, and when triggered, your gestation progress slows to 50% speed. Once the gestation meter is 50% complete, you will enter Immature phase.
Phase 4: Immature Xenomorph
You’ve now grown to the size of a large dog or a small human, you can no longer be stomped by survivors, your FoV is raised to that of Hag/Sadako, you lose permanent killer instinct, and you gain the ability to M1 survivors. You cannot pick survivors up when in the dying state, but you can mori if applicable (via offerings). You are capable of defending yourself, and capable of applying pressure, but you cannot further your objective until you complete gestation. Visually, you are a smaller version of your adult form, with any cosmetic options resized accordingly. Continue to hold down the secondary action button to complete your growth phase and become an Adult.
Weapon: Prehensile Tail
Basic Attack (M1): You thrust the tip of your tail forward and spear a survivor with the tip.
Phase 5: Adult Xenomorph
You have completed your growth cycle and become the perfect organism. You can no longer revert back to previous stages, but why would you want to? Your now at full height, your movement speed is 4.6m/s, your Terror Radius is 40m, your lunge is increased by 50%, and you gain your secondary attack ‘Evisceration’.
Special Attack (M2): Evisceration. Hold the secondary action button to go into ‘Evisceration’ ready mode, then press the primary action button to activate. It takes 0.5s to ready ‘Evisceration’ and 1.5s to fully charge. While charging/charged, you gain killer instinct on all survivors within 16m and move at 3.86m/s, while emitting a hissing sound. A partially charged ‘Evisceration’ will unleash a rush attack at 15m/s and injure any survivors in your path, a fully charged ‘Evisceration’ will unleash a rush attack at 18m/s and put any survivors hit into the dying state unless under the effect of Endurance. The rush attack is slightly steerable, unlike the Demogorgon’s Shred, but movement is heavily restricted similar to Oni/Billy. Evisceration has a 6 second cooldown, and a failed Evisceration or collision with an obstacle has a 4 second fatigue. An Evisceration rush does not break pallets, but it does cause you to vault over them with minimal loss of speed, and unlike Wesker, does not pause your power or deplete charges. If a survivor is still on the other side of the pallet, they will get hit.
Overall, you might notice that there are elements of Demogorgon, Wesker, with a bit of Myers in there, and a little bit of Twins. This all comes together to form a unique gameplay loop that makes for a relatively non-lethal killer in the first 2 minutes of the game, give or take your success at impregnating survivors, much like Myers tiering up. You then become a very threatening killer, with a power similar to Demo and Wesker in some ways, with an edge on each of them due to the lethality of a fully charged Evisceration.
There is a potential to never reach the final phase, if you allow yourself to be crushed in the Chestbuster phase and respawn as a Facehugger, you could repeatedly shave off hook states and eliminate survivors that way. However, this would take around 60s each time and would effectively be like camping, but with less pressure applied. Add ons could make the process a little more efficient, and the iridescent add on can kill survivors in one implantation, but if you use this, chances are survivors will avoid crushing you as a Chestburster to prevent you using it a second time.
Add ons
Iri 1: Iridescent Teeth - When erupting from a survivor as a Chestburster, you immediately kill that survivor by your own hand. Gestation in all phases is 100% longer.
Iri 2: Hive Mind - When charging ‘Evisceration’ you also gain killer instinct on survivors within 16m of any ovomorph. Survivors revealed by killer instinct suffer from 2% Hindered for the duration.
VR 1: Razor Talons - A partially charged ‘Evisceration’ inflicts Deepwound on healthy survivors.
VR 2: Serrated Talons - A partially or fully charged ‘Evisceration’ inflicts Mangled and Haemorrhage for 60 seconds. Timer is paused while hooked.
VR 3: Pheromone receptors - Reveal the auras of any survivors within 8m of an ovomorph.
VR 4: Acid Blood - Injured or dying survivors who stun you by any means are inflicted with Deepwound.
R 1: Perfect DNA - Increases gestation gained from great skill checks by 2% and gestation speed by 8%.
R 2: Growth Hormone Omega - Reduces the survivors gestation timer by 10 seconds.
R 3: Debilitating Toxin - While gestating in a survivor, that survivors action speeds are reduced by 25%.
R 4: Denticulated Talon - Fully charged ‘Evisceration’ inflicts Mangled and Haemorrhage for 60 seconds. Timer is paused while hooked.
R 5: Pheromone glands - Survivors that come within 8m of an ovomorph suffer from Oblivious, this effect persists for 3 seconds after leaving the area.
UC 1: Superior DNA - Increases gestation gained from skill checks by 1% and gestation speed by 6%.
UC 2: Growth Hormone Zeta - Reduces the survivors gestation timer by 5 seconds.
UC 3: Insidious Toxin - While gestating in a survivor, that survivors action speeds are reduced by 15%.
UC 4: Jagged Talon - Fully charged ‘Evisceration’ inflicts Mangled and Haemorrhage for 30 seconds. Timer is paused while hooked.
UC 5: Camouflaged Chitin - After losing a chase, you become Undetectable for 20 seconds.
C 1: Enhanced DNA- Increases gestation gained from great skill checks by 1% and gestation speed by 3%.
C 2: Insipid Toxin - While gestating in a survivor, that survivors action speeds are reduced by 10%.
C 3: Rigid Chitin - You cannot be crushed after emerging as a Chestburster for an additional 10 seconds.
C 4: Blunt Talon - A fully charged ‘Evisceration’ will not put a survivor into the dying state from healthy and will instead inflict Deepwound, failed Evisceration cooldown is reduced by 2 seconds. Gain 100% bonus to bloodpoints in the Deviousness category.
Perks
Just a few ideas to add to the concept, although these aren't things I'm totally set on, just a few things I thought would fit the concept.
Perfect Defence
- An injured or dying survivor who stuns you by any means is inflicted with Deepwound and inflicted with Mangled for 20/25/30 seconds.
Heightened Senses
- When a survivor loses a hook state for the first time, this perk gains 1 token. When sacrificing a survivor, this perk loses 1 token.
- When this perk has 4 tokens, you see the auras of any survivors within 4/6/8 meters.
Genetic Memory
- When a survivor is unhooked, their aura is concealed for 180/150/120 seconds.
- After this time has elapsed, they become Oblivious for 30 seconds and their aura is revealed for 22 seconds.
It's not a flawless concept and would probably never happen, but it's an interesting one that doesn't utilising 'vents' or other forms of 'portals' like Demo.
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Without forcing new players to grind through hours of tutorial games, I'm not sure there is any other way to make it more welcoming. The very format of the game being an asymmetrical PVP game, means that you have the 'power' side for the killer, and the 'numbers' side for the survivors. The thing that gives the 'numbers' side their advantage, is coordination, something that only comes from experience, meanwhile the 'power' is always there from the start for the killer.
The best thing new players can do, is play killer. This gives you the initial advantage against the players you should be being matched with initially, and moreover, it will give you the experience you will ultimately need to play survivor at a higher level. Playing killer makes you a better survivor and vice versa, so you're getting that 'head start' on survivor by playing some killer first.
Other than that, it's mindset. You need to be able to accept a loss graciously (evidently easier said than done because very few players can do this). You're ultimately playing a horror game, where you can play as a weak human survivor, against supernatural killing machines. You're going to die, a lot, so get used to it. You wouldn't go into a Souls game expecting to win first time, the learning curve for DBD is kinda the same, you need that experience to get to a point where you can realistically 'compete'.
That said, I do think new players could do with some sort of 'incentive', to soften the blow and ease the initial grind a little. It's pretty rough when you have no perks to play with, and because you're losing a lot you're not gaining much BP to be able to afford to unlock more perks. A newcomer bonus of +100% BP for the first 30 hours of play or something would be pretty neat.
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The main thing holding Blight back from being a 110% speed killer, is the fact that his first rush is non-lethal. He can't actually injure a survivor until he makes one bounce, so his chase power is dependent on terrain and can't simply be used to 'catch up' to the survivor and instantly attack in the same way Nurse does, or attack quickly from a distance in the same way any ranged killer does.
I could totally see Hag getting a buff to where her movement speed is increased to 115% when she's out of range of any trap.
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I don't think Pig is in an awful place. I still play her mainly as a stealth killer and she performs fairly well. But she could always do with some buffs.
For example, her (and Ghostface's) 'faster movement speed while crouched' add-ons should be basekit. It makes no sense that a stealth killer is required to be out-of-stealth-mode until they reach a survivor. That just warns the survivor that the killer is nearby and has just entered stealth mode.
While you're at it, speed up her crouch transition movement to match Ghostie's.
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Ray Guns might be a little too camp for a serious killer concept. 😂
I actually came up with a concept for such a killer a couple years ago
@Seraphor said:
This is still a little rough around the edges, and just a first draft kinda thing, but it stems from the idea of an Alien killer. Obviously a Xenomorph is a widely sought after licensed killer that we're likely never going to get, but it got me thinking of something that could fit better within DBD's format and aesthetic. This guy wouldn't look at all out of place on Coldwind Farm for example.
It essentially combines some aspects of Doctor, Freddy and Pyramid Head. His main power controls similarly to Freddy's dream snares, except they're harder to aim, and they need to land directly on the survivor when you activate them, for a more powerful effect.
Killer: The Grey
Height: Tall
Terror Radius: Small
Speed: 4.6m/s (115%)
Power: Capture
Hold down the power button to begin Capture. The Grey holds out its hand, seemingly communicating with some entity far above through telepathic means. After a second to 'charge up' a bright beam of light from above appears in front of it, with a 2-meter radius, and slowly moves forward, away from the Grey’s relative position at a speed of 2m/s, up to a maximum distance of 12 meters.
Release the power button to finish Capture, if the beam is directly on a survivor, it locks onto them and they are frozen in place for 2.5 seconds. If the survivor is standing perfectly still when hit by the beam of light, they are only frozen for 0.5 seconds. Survivors hit by a basic attack are knocked out of the Capture state.
While Capture is active, your movement speed is decreased to 3.6m/s (90%) (net speed of the capture beam would then be 5.6m/s)
This power has a long cooldown if successfully freezing a survivor, and a short cooldown if it fails to reach a survivor.
Secondary Power: Abduction
Using the secondary power button when a Survivor is frozen in a beam of light, will abduct that survivor and send them to a distant point on the map. They will be inflicted with Oblivious for 30 seconds, if injured they will be inflicted with Broken for 30 seconds, and you will see their aura for 6 seconds. From the perspective of the Abducted survivor, other survivors will briefly appear to them in the form of The Grey while they suffer from Oblivious.
Additional Effect: Abducting an Injured survivor who is still suffering from Oblivious following a previous Abduction, will instead send them to Suspension Beam on the opposite side of the map. They will need to be rescued by another survivor, otherwise they will be sacrificed to the Entity. There is no skillcheck involved, but the timer ticks down 10% quicker than a typical hook state.
Perks
Interference: Survivors working on gens within your terror radius are inflicted with Oblivious for 2/3/4 seconds. If they stop repairing during this time, that generator starts automatically regressing at 80%/100%/120% of normal regression speed.
Painted Targets: When a survivor is rescued from the hook, if you are more than 32/28/24 meters away from the hook, you see all other survivors’ auras for 2/3/4 seconds. This has a cooldown of 40 seconds.
Plausible Deniability: Survivors hit with your basic attack become cursed for 30 seconds. Any survivors who come within 4/8/12 meters of the cursed survivor are inflicted with Oblivious.
Add-on ideas:
Iridescent: Abducted survivors are automatically put into the injured state. You are unable to see their aura after Abduction.
Iridescent: You can see the auras of any survivors who appear as The Grey when they are within 16 meters of the afflicted survivor.
Very Rare: To survivors who are successfully Abducted, other survivors will appear as The Grey with an illusionary red stain for the duration of their Obliviousness. Survivors are only Captured for 1.5 seconds; this effect trumps all other add-ons.
Rare: To survivors who are successfully Abducted, other survivors will appear as The Grey for 15 seconds. Survivors are only Captured for 2 seconds; this effect trumps all other add-ons.
Very Rare: Abducted survivors suffer from Oblivious for 50 seconds. You can only read the auras of Abducted survivors for 2 seconds.
Rare: Abducted survivors suffer from Oblivious for 40 seconds. You can only read the auras of Abducted survivors for 4 seconds.
Very Rare: Survivors are Captured for 3.5 seconds. The requirement for reducing the Capture duration is changed to ‘if the survivor is looking at you’.
Rare: Survivors are Captured for 3 seconds. The requirement for reducing the Capture duration is changed to ‘if the survivor is not sprinting’.
Uncommon: The reduced Capture duration is increased by 1 second.
Common: The reduced Capture duration is increased by 0.5 seconds.
It's essentially based around the 'abduction' theme, with the power having the closest similarity to Doctor and Pyramid Head I suppose, based on a theme of misdirection and inciting madness, capitalising on slowing down survivors or hindering their actions, and 'teleporting' them to other areas of the map.
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As much as I'd like to be able to congratulate or cheer on some of the players who raid my outposts, accolades would make it feel like watching every single replay was essential. Who knows what fun replay's I'm missing out on? But even worse, who knows what fun replay's I'm missing out on that deserve accolades!?
Aint nobody got time for that.
I just like it when someone raids one of my more 'artistic' outposts, doesn't die because it's not at all hard, and then does a little camera pan and head nod before they leave. That's like a third accolade.
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I would rather give No Mither a slight buff that would still enable it to somewhat synergise with DH like before.
- You start the trial healthy, and only trigger the perks effects once you become injured for the first time.
This gives the No Mither user one extra health state, at the start of the game when they don't have access to DH.
It would also mean other players including the killer, won't immediately know you have the perk on and use it to make you a target. Which is the sort of buff it's needed for a while.
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If FoV was a big deal, Shadowborn would be a decent perk, not even meta, just 'decent', but that's not the case.
Shadowborn is only useful for limiting disorientation on high-speed killers.
Disorientation.
The current FoV is disorienting.
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Probably because this forum has about 20 regular posters, and Reddit has hundreds of thousands.
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That Dark Sense description doesn't fully explain it's effects though.
It could read as a 10 second timer that starts when the generator is completed, but that's not how it works. Instead, the perk 'Activates' and when the killer next enters a 24 meter radius, the 10 seconds of aura reading begin.
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@deaddavettv said:
and i dissconected 1 time bro
1 disconnect is a 1 minute ban.
For 6 hours, you disconnected (or 'left' a game) at least 4 times within about 24 hours.
These rules apply to everyone, you are not special.
You should probably choose a different game to stream for the next four hours instead of just staring at the lobby screen waiting for some higher power to "fix" it.
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It's an automatic penalty for disconnecting. You disconnected, several times.